/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.8733766]

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/89ipyu/update_i_just_discovered_that_i_owe_the_irs_50k/
>I owe the IRS $50k that I never actually received because I traded altcoins last year and didn't realize I had to pay capital gains on the trades. And then I continued not to sell my altcoins because I thought they'd go back up since they crashed so hard. God... was that a mistake.

>So now I got $20k in total assets but owe the IRS $50k.

>I talked to a tax lawyer. He said the IRS would probably be OK with a payment plan but we'd have to talk to them. And I could pay $20k now and the extra $30k over a long period of time (like 10 years). In the mean time I won't be able to accumulate much in the way of my own savings.
>I sold my crypto today because my lawyer urged me to. If I don't, and it crashes further, it would only make things worse. I'll get to use the losses to deduct a pittance from my income taxes each year. But I'll still owe more than I get to deduct. And I have to pay interest on it.
>I basically don't get to have savings for the next 10 years. I probably won't be needing much help from /r/personalfinance for a while, seeing how I'm never gonna have finances.

>Anyway my life is ruined. Thought I'd let you guys know, so you can learn from these mistakes.

Just remember, no matter how bad you have it at least you're not this guy

[Anonymous No.8734207]

>>8733766
He should just take that 30k and put it in LINK ami rite guys? h-haha

[Anonymous No.8734351]

>>8733766
>Just remember, no matter how bad you have it at least you're not this guy

Actually, a lot of people here are probably in his position right now without even realizing it yet. Everyone here was making gains in paper terms in December... now everyone seems to be at a massive loss... do the math..

That's why I kept posting for months saying that crypto to crypto is taxed in fiat value at the time of trade. These three sections of the IRS guidance make that inarguable:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
>For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.

>For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

>If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

[Anonymous No.8734356]

>>8734207
take the value of each coin at the peak of when you last bought it, subtract the price of it right now, write off at capital loss

[Anonymous No.8734365]

lmao nigga why dont u just leave the country theyll never find u in brazil

[Anonymous No.8734371]

>>8733766
>paying taxes

[Anonymous No.8734383]

>>8734356
this

[Anonymous No.8734385]

>>8734356
before you tell me thats not how it works, its an extra 1-2k if you get audited on top of the 50k you owe which you can roll into the payment plan, IF YOU GET AUDITED, IF...vs paying nothing. its a good risk

[Anonymous No.8734388]

>>8733766
>>8734351

Lmao, your "lawyer" must be retarded. Unless you traded alts for USD, you owe nothing. Even USDT is just crypto in the eyes of the IRS. Since all crypto is like kind you likely never had a taxable event.

Even if you did trade to USD, unless you traded over $20k on coinbase, the IRS isn't even going to know about it...

[Anonymous No.8734401]

>>8734351
How the fuck do I owe taxes on unrealized gains? I haven't cashed shit

[Reluctant kneepad girl No.8734427]

>>8733766
Tired old larp

[Anonymous No.8734441]

>>8734388
This.

Entire thing sounds like bullshit. IRS isn't above this kind of stuff when it comes to scaring people into paying taxes.

[Anonymous No.8734461]

Don't declare trades on non us exchanges like binance or bitmex. The IRS don't know about them.
IM in Aus and im only declaring my btc/AUD trades because that's all the ATO know about

[Anonymous No.8734465]

>>8734388
>>8734401
You retarded pieces of dirt. Read the 3 sections of the IRS guidance I quoted.

Especially the last one. Keep in mind that all virtual currency is property.

"If the FAIR MARKET VALUE of PROPERTY received in EXCHANGE for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain"

Does it say if you trade it for USD? No, if you exchange it for property, and the fair market is greater than when you bought it, you owe money.

[Anonymous No.8734468]

>>8734351
>>8734351
>>8734351
>>8734351
>>8734351
>>8734351
>>8734351

[Anonymous No.8734476]

>>8734465
they don't care as long as they make money off of idiots

[Anonymous No.8734480]

>>8733766
thats the kind of thing they have been waiting for before buying back in. Get them all to sell out of despair, then scoop it up.

And they wont even scoop it up and push the price up, they will go OTC before doing anything

[Anonymous No.8734498]

>>8734401
you don't bro taxing on unrealized gains is only going to fuel the entire fundamental purpose of crypto. god this meme is retarded.

[Reluctant kneepad girl No.8734506]

>>8734465
Once IRS accept BTC payments you maybe point
But till then you argument as retard as IRS taxing WoW AH transaction

[Anonymous No.8734509]

>>8734401

You don't. OP is larping. If you never cashed out to USD you owe nothing.

>>8734465

The IRS is talking about buying things with crypto, not trading.

For trading income you can use like kind, so you can consider all crypto a single asset. So crypto to crypto is not a taxable event. Crypto to USD or crypto to buy things is a taxable event.

But this is changing for 2018. So in 2018 if you trade alts every trade is taxable. Even then you can just not report it. Later on if it recovers and you make gains you would just pay income tax on the whole amount as you just won't be able to prove your cost basis.

[Anonymous No.8734521]

>>8733766
first if you declare every trade like that you are a fucking idoit. buy btc and take your shit to a chink exchange do your trade or whatever then bring it back to coinshit to cash out.

[Anonymous No.8734548]

>>8733766
LOL FUCKING AMERICANS

[Anonymous No.8734550]

>>8734521
This is my my trade pattern. Is it retarded?

[Anonymous No.8734553]

>>8734509
Honestly the IRS can go fuck themselves.

Their policies make no sense. Crypto is being treated as both a currency, property, and equity for tax purposes when it best suites them.

Most people aren't reporting shit until they cash out. And there is nothing the IRS can do about it.

[Anonymous No.8734559]

>>8734521
this is a great idea
do it alot
everybody else is doing it

[Anonymous No.8734574]

>>8734509
What do I do if I am running an arbitrage platform that makes 30 trades a day. The paperwork I will have to fill out will be immense.

[Anonymous No.8734578]

[Anonymous No.8734595]

>>8734550
idk im going to do it when i have a decent amount of money. Wich, they way the market is looking is going to a long time from now. Im not going to pay taxes on shit coins sitting in an exchange. That's fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.8734614]

>>8734465
Yeah dude totally, last week I gave my friend 3 oranges and now I’m setting up a payment plan for the $800 I now owe on the USD value of those oranges.

[Anonymous No.8734616]

>>8734351
that's why I didn't make any trades after my crypto went x10+ until january

[Anonymous No.8734633]

>>8734574

30 trades/day is nothing. Software can easily do that. But the IRS doesn't give a shit how you do it because the burden of proof is on you to prove your cost basis for every trade so when you cash out you don't have to pay double tax on your principle.

[Anonymous No.8734648]

please explain how this is possible. you cannot owe on unrealized gains when you haven't cashed out to fiat. if you're talking about capital gains on alt-alt trades, you would also have losses because the value of the coins went down. nothing about this post makes sense.

[Anonymous No.8734659]

>>8734509
How do you simultaneously say that if you buy "things" with crypto you owe taxes, and then say you only owe taxes if you cash out for USD? The IRS says if you exchange it for PROPERTY. Is crypto property? Yes. Here's what Cross Law Firm, the most experienced firm in crypto taxation says:

>Every single exchange of virtual currency is a taxable event — whether to buy a cup of coffee or exchange one type of virtual currency for another. Not just transactions where it’s sold for fiat.

Like-kind has NEVER been approved for crypto to crypto exchanges.

[Anonymous No.8734680]

>>8734648
it does because tax years, imagine you buy a shitcoin for $1k early in 2017, you trade it for $100k worth of another shitcoin still in 2017, now you're in 2018 and your shitcoin is only worth $10k, you have $99k taxable gains from previous year that you cannot offset with $90k loss from 2018

[Anonymous No.8734682]

>>8734356
If you bought at the start of December you can't write it off at it's current price. You have to do it either at the market price at the end of the year (a fucking shitton) or the price which you last traded (still probably a shitton)

[Anonymous No.8734687]

>>8734461
What happens when your gov makes a deal with Binance to get their records? That could easily be a requirement to continue operation.

[Anonymous No.8734697]

>>8734659

It doesn't have to be approved. Everyone is using like kind for crypto.

[Anonymous No.8734702]

>>8734680
This makes no sense. This doesn't happen with stocks, or any other asset really.

[Anonymous No.8734703]

>>8734648
It makes sense when alts and Bitcoin went up hundreds of percent in 2017, but then crashed 75% in 2018. The gains were in 2017, which he owes taxes on, the losses are in 2018. So many people are going to get fucked because of this.

[Anonymous No.8734724]

>>8734687
You havent KYC on binance, they only have ur email address and crypto addresses

[Anonymous No.8734728]

>>8734703
all of this shit dumped at the most opportune moment

[Anonymous No.8734731]

>>8733766
>being this stupid
>roleplaying someone this stupid

Gee anon, you sure don't value your time do you?

[Anonymous No.8734744]

So glad I live in a country with a much weaker tax office. God bless Australia

[Anonymous No.8734746]

>>8734687
As of right now, you only need to give your ID to Binance if you want "level 2" verification. The only benefit of level 2 verification is being able to withdraw more than 2 BTC per day. So just don't do level 2, and withdraw your BTC slowly, then use an account not actually registered to your name.

Problem solved.

[Anonymous No.8734754]

>>8734702
Yeah it does. It happens with everything. In stocks you just see the fiat value in your account before trading it for another stock, and if you're smart you put aside money for taxes when you see the money in your account. In reality that's what we should all be doing when we are trading.

[Anonymous No.8734775]

>>8734702
that's exactly what happens in stocks, you can carry your loss to forward years and only partially, not to previous years
imagine you're trading coin to fiat (which really is the same thing since crypto crypto is taxable)
you buy shitcoin for $1k in 2017, sell it for $100k in 2017 and rebuy it again with the whole $100k still in 2017, now you have $100k worth of shitcoin and a realized gain of $99k, next year ticks and your shitcoin loses 90% of its value, but you cannot use new years loss to offset gain from previous year

[Anonymous No.8734778]

>>8734754
That is because you trade back for USD before you buy another stock.

You never cash back with crypto-crypto. The policy is fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.8734794]

>>8734680

i want to know how op got to this point. what was his total volume of trades? obviously if you have a low cost basis of 1k and then you make 99k you're going to get taxed on it, if you sell. but if you didn't sell you aren't getting taxed on the gain because there isn't any. if your shitcoin drops to 10k you haven't realized a gain yet. how is this not clear to you guys still?

[Anonymous No.8734798]

>>8734754
let me guess this straight -

>buy 1000$ worth of shitcoin#1
>shitcoin#1 goes up to 10,000$
>use 10k shitcoin 1 to buy 10k$ worth of shitcoin 2
>land of the free says thats a 9000$ cap gain

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Why is it that its not when you cash out?

if shitcoin 2 drops to 500$ you should be reporting a 500$ cap loss. not a fucking 9000 cap gain if this happnes to me i ll literally shoot myself in front of their office

[Anonymous No.8734812]

>>8734680

Cryto to cryto can be considered a like kind exchange (only for 2017), so there is no tax realization on the trade.

>>8734687

So what? The IRS doesn't shift through records of everyone with a crypto account. You can trade crypo without cashing out and the IRS will probably never know unless you trade enough to trip limits on coinbase (in which case you should probably know how taxes work).

And the IRS really doesn't care as when you cash out its on you to prove where your initial investment came from or you will be forced to pay tax on the full amount. For crypto this isn't so bad because the gains are so much. But still you are going to pay tax when you cash out, the IRS is really not going to invest much in forcing people to pay up front when there is much better things they can be investigating.

[Anonymous No.8734833]

ITT people don’t know how taxes work and keep memes alive. You wouldn’t owe that much in taxes. In 2017 crypto to crypto wasn’t taxed. Done.

[Anonymous No.8734834]

>>8734798
OH CAN YOU SEEE
BY THE DAWNS EARLY LIGHT

[Anonymous No.8734835]

>>8734798

yes you are being taxed on capital gains in this case because by trading you realize the gain. but what op is saying makes no fucking sense. this isn't how taxes work or how trading works. if you trade for a coin, it goes to 10k, you hold it through christmas, it drops to 1k, you still haven't realized a gain or loss because you haven't traded the coin again or sold it for fiat. it is that simple. the gains don't end when the tax year ends. you hold through which is how long term capital gains work. seriously biz is the most retarded place on the internet i swear.

[Anonymous No.8734852]

>>8734778
But the crypto still has a fiat value, and in fiat value you still made a profit. It's kinda retarded but something we are going to have to live with. Especially if we make it big and actually want to cash out keep our profits.

>>8734744
Australia set up a specific task force to get people not paying their crypto taxes

[Anonymous No.8734853]

>>8734833

this is also iffy at best, wrong if you're being conservative. and making everything like kind requires you to fill out a form for every trade rather than making a summary 8949 which you attach to your schedule d. bunch of larping faggots on this board have never traded or paid taxes on anything before.

[Anonymous No.8734854]

>>8733766
Nope, nobody is going to pay for trade taxes.. IRS can go fuck themselves.

Tax only when selling to fiat is a convenient solution

[Anonymous No.8734868]

>>8734680
Well that is simply the most bullshit retarded backwards dumbass fucking dipshit what the fuck thing I’ve ever read in my entire life

[Anonymous No.8734874]

>>8734371
>Paying

[Anonymous No.8734880]

>>8734852
Yeah but they will never be staffed enough to track my binance trades. Im 100% reporting all my btcmarkets stuff

[Anonymous No.8734890]

>>8734852
>make it big
>accept crypto-trading killing regulation that makes no sense unlikely to be enforced and can’t be sustained

[Anonymous No.8734893]

>>8734835
i was just trolling you all

in canada you can carry back your capital losses for 3 years, so besides the arrears interest you dont technically owe anything

how the fuck is ur capitalism so bad?

[Anonymous No.8734922]

>>8734798
That's literally exactly how it works. If the year closes out with that gain on the books, there's nothing you can do to cancel it out. "Like-Kind" is a complete myth and NO tax accountant will do it.

>>8734835
OP probably traded using most of his portfolio for alt coins during his peak portfolio value in December, therefore triggering the capital gains.

[Anonymous No.8734924]

>>8734852
>But the crypto still has a fiat value, and in fiat value you still made a profit

No, because there was no realized gain. If I buy something with it, or cash back to fiat then I made a gain.

IRS policies make no sense, they can go fuck themselves.

[reluctant kneepad girl No.8734930]

>>8734852
Next you are going to say hooker whore will have pay capital gains on cum swallowed because cum have fiat value

[Anonymous No.8734942]

>>8734924
>If I buy something with it

The IRS fucking considers crypto as "something". Get over it.

[Anonymous No.8734946]

USA ! USA ! USA !
kek

[Anonymous No.8734958]

>>8734794
I imagine this is a pretty common situation actually, many people bought early/mid 2017 and were happily trading and unknowingly realizing their gains not leaving anything for taxes
>>8734868
this is very basic actually, each tax year is seperate

[Anonymous No.8734963]

>>8734942
IRS policies are going to be struck down inevitably on account of them being fucking retarded.

So I can just wait until then, will happen this or next year.

[Anonymous No.8734971]

>>8734853
Eh I just didn’t fill shit out because I didn’t realize any gains yet. I’ll wait till 2019 to worry about that. Irs is undermanned and if in worst case they come for my few $1000 then I’ll just pay it so I don’t go to ass ream jail. 2017 is fine though

[Anonymous No.8734975]

>>8734924
>No, because there was no realized gain. If I buy something with it
Crypto is an asset. You've effectively sold one asset and bought another. 2 different stocks are not the same asset. 2 different crypto coins are not the same asset.

[Anonymous No.8734979]

>>8734922

ok but traded to what? if he traded the coins that ended up losing value and isn't holding them then he would obviously pay capital gains but that would be completely obvious and fair and expected. he's talking about trading to a coin, having the coin rise in value, then lose all its value, at no point he trades the coin again, but somehow he's realized a gigantic gain. not how it works. he's holding that coin unless he sells it. and at that point if he sells at a loss it's a loss, which he can report. people aren't understanding this.

[reluctant kneepad girl No.8734982]

>>8734853
Me sold WoW gold for years and never for a once had pay taxes on each sell
I only ever pay taxes eoy capital gains

[Anonymous No.8734990]

>>8734574
Well, that would be an incentive to form an LLC and operate under different rules, wouldn't it. Like real day traders do.

[Anonymous No.8734998]

>>8734979
the chances are he traded his coin that mooned hard to buy another coin that dumped hard in 2018

[Anonymous No.8735003]

>>8734979
He traded shitcoin1 to shitcoin2. He made a 9k profit on shitcoin1 and so this must be reported for tax purposes for the following year.

[Anonymous No.8735019]

>>8734852
>It's kinda retarded but something we are going to have to live with.

They will have to learn to live with this not being taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.8735021]

lol paying taxes on crypto
Don't cash out faggot

[Anonymous No.8735029]

>>8734922
>>8734942

You can declare crypto to crypto as like kind. So in >>8734798 example, you can report its as:

>buy $1000 of cryptocurrencies
>your portfolio goes up to $10k
>trade stuff within your portfolio which is all not realization events because they are like kind exchanges
>2017 ends

You owe nothing because there is no realization event. Now if instead if you sold your portfolio for $10000 on dec 31 and bought it back jan 1, then it tanked to $1000. Yeah, you'd owe taxes on $9000 in income. But its unlikely the IRS would ever find out about it if you never reported it. Your only problem would be if you did cash out later on it would be difficult for you to prove you initially put in the $1000 and might have to pay taxes on that amount to.

in 2018 this all changes due to the tax bill that restricted like kind exchanges to real estate. Even then, the later still applies.

[Anonymous No.8735032]

Lol it just seems like a lose/lose to ever even mention crypto what idiots

[Anonymous No.8735038]

>>8734982
OP owes 50k in taxes. That means he made 100k on crypto at least. You didn't make 100k selling wow gold, just like your neighbour didn't make 100k selling lemonade on the side of the street. Don't be stupid.

[Anonymous No.8735039]

>>8734979
>ok but traded to what?
To various shitcoins in the peak of the bubble with his whole portfolio, realizing out huge portions of "fair market value". In his original post he writes:

>Around December 2017, I got caught up in the altcoins frenzy and sold most of my bitcoins (about $120k worth) to buy a bunch of different coins

[reluctant kneepad girl No.8735050]

>>8735003
SHITCOIN HAVE NOT MONETIZE VALUE!!!
THAT WHY THEY ARE OF REGULATE SEC NOW
UNTIL YOU REALIZE GAINZ YOU PLAY WITH CHUCKY CHEESE MONEY

W/O SEC = CHUCKY CHEESE

4 YEAR OLDS NOT TAXED AT CHICKY CHEESES

[Anonymous No.8735051]

>>8733766
his tax lawyer is terrible, it would be much better to hide his gains for now and try to recover with trading/bitmex or whatever and hopefully gain enough to recover, otherwise declare bankruptcy because bankruptcy in usa is very debtor friendly

[Anonymous No.8735058]

>>8735032

Only if you have some way to cash out meaningful amounts tax free.

If you plan on paying taxes when you cash out to USD it is beneficial to report everything unless you don't care about paying double tax on your initial investment.

[Anonymous No.8735059]

>>8733766
this dude is going to kill himself when cryptos moon Q2, fuck.

[Anonymous No.8735060]

You can claim capital loss. What the fuck is that guy doing?

[Anonymous No.8735066]

>>8734998

right, which is a loss. it would even out in the end, possibly coming out in his favor if he is in the hole and his losses are large enough. again i don't believe anyone here has actually paid taxes on crypto or they'd know this situation isn't possible.

[reluctant kneepad girl No.8735065]

>>8735038
I MAKE WAY MORE THEN 100K
Fuck you all!!!@!@

[Anonymous No.8735067]

>>8734975
That is not how it works. I can pack dirt into my bag or farm CounterStrike skins. I don't owe the IRS anything for it, unless I sell it for USD.

You pay taxes on Stocks when you cash out or buy another stock. This is special because stock-stock transactions are actually stock-usd-stock transactions. You cash out, make a gain, and therefore owe taxes.

[Anonymous No.8735072]

>>8734614

kek'd

[Anonymous No.8735081]

>>8734982
Not anymore apparently. Its pretty funny that gamers seem to be in completely in denial when this topic comes up. But its actually no bullshit a real issue now.

[Anonymous No.8735082]

>>8735066
I'm not sure if you are trolling me or just a brainlet, but this situation is very possible due to distinction of tax years, realize gain in 2017, realize loss in 2018. You have to pay tax on 2017 regardless of what happened in 2018.

[Anonymous No.8735093]

>>8735060

exactly. if you use any tax software or sites like cointracking you'll see, even using fifo, that you end up with a net loss if you ultimately dumped out during the crash. you input your full trade volume, your cost basis, and your gain. then it adds up everything and you figure out if you have a loss or not. you can claim a loss. i don't know what this retard is doing.

[Anonymous No.8735116]

>>8735093
I don't get it? How can you be this retarded. You were explained to multiple times in very simple terms that if the tax year ends with a gain and then you make a loss the next year, it doesn't cancel out the previous years gain. Try it in your tax software.

[Anonymous No.8735124]

>>8735082

you don't realize anything if you haven't traded or sold the coin to fiat. if you simply traded for a coin that you "bought" 1k of, and then at the end of 2017 that coin's value rose to 100k, you never touched it, then in 2018 the value plummeted, you are not "realizing gain" during 2017 on the coin. you report your trades that you realize a gain or loss on, you don't owe on coins you haven't touched. how the fuck do you think stocks work for long term capital gains? you think every year you automatically close out all your trades and realize massive losses? and i'm the brainlet?

[Anonymous No.8735127]

>>8735060
it's pretty obvious that he realized gains in 2017 and realized losses in 2018, what the fuck is so hard to understand?

[Anonymous No.8735130]

>>8735038
>You didn't make 100k selling wow gold, just like your neighbour didn't make 100k selling lemonade on the side of the street.

Its a pretty big deal how much you make selling gold for games like WoW. 100k is very possible. They have people farming non stop for 24/7 and they make a lot of money.

Some CS:GO weapon skins go for 5 grand a pop by the way. Do a little research before you start yapping about how crypto and video game assets are different.

[Anonymous No.8735139]

>>8735124
> you never touched it
are you dumb? it's pretty obvious that he traded with it in 2017 and unknowingly realized his gain in 2017, otherwise his post wouldn't exist

[Anonymous No.8735140]

>>8735124
>you don't realize anything if you haven't traded or sold the coin to fiat

HE FUCKING DID TRADE. WITH HIS WHOLE PORTFOLIO IN DECEMBER IN THE PEAK OF THE BUBBLE.

Most people here did.

[Anonymous No.8735148]

>ITT: a lot of the people getting letters in the near future.

It sucks, but pay your taxes. It’s not anyone’s fault you got high off of the 2017 mania and didn’t consider the legal ramifications of what was done.

>day trading
Imagine every trade as one more pile of dirt going over your shoulder before you stick the shovel in the ground once more.

[Anonymous No.8735155]

>>8735124
> I traded altcoins last year
from the post, he didn't hold from low to moon to low, he traded it after it mooned realizing his gains still in 2017

[Anonymous No.8735177]

>>8735155

ok so what is the issue? he traded it to what? to another shitcoin that dumped? you're a fucking brainlet if you're day trading crypto and not setting aside money for short term capital gains tax. and i still don't get what his cost basis was. I WANT TO SEE SOME DOCUMENTATION HERE BUDDY

[Anonymous No.8735192]

Ok so, one possible silver lining to all of this shit.

If you get fucked like OP and owe 50k and your coins dump to 20k in 2018. You setup a payment plan or whatever.

Then in 2019 you can claim massive loses. Which would probably reduce your payments down to basically zero.

Right? So we basically just get fucked for one year, then we report taxes next year and you say 90k in loses" that SHOULD counter this problem.

If not then we might have to have a conversation about about how to survive on crypto from now on and never going back to fiat.

[Anonymous No.8735196]

>>8735139
>>8735140
>>8735155

He traded bitcoin for alts, which he can report as like king exchanges, so there is no realization. He owes nothing.

Now this year you won't be able to do that. Still, you can probably get away with not reporting that, unless you are swing trading over $20,000 USD trades on coinbase, IRS is never going to know about your alts. Eventually you will have to cash out and you will pay taxes then and it'll be on you to prove what your principle is or pay double tax on it.

[Anonymous No.8735199]

>>8735067
>You pay taxes on Stocks when you cash out or buy another stock. This is special because stock-stock transactions are actually stock-usd-stock transactions. You cash out, make a gain, and therefore owe taxes.
BUT MOMMY I SOLD MY STOCKS BUT NEVER TOOK THEM TO MY BANK ACCOUNT, I JUST LEFT THEM IN MY TRADING ACCOUNT, I DON'T HAVE TO PAY NO TAX, THIS IS BULLSHIT.
Yeah nah what you said is bullshit. But you've only committed a crime if you get caught, so good luck to you.

[Anonymous No.8735207]

all those cucks just telling him to pay up.
lol. write it off. if you invested 8k and only have 30k, then you pay on the 22k gains, not whatever your peak was.
wash trade if necessary.
there's nothing just about taxing someone for money they don't have

[Anonymous No.8735213]

>>8735127

You dont report 2018 until 2019.

[Anonymous No.8735220]

>>8735148
>It sucks, but pay your taxes. It’s not anyone’s fault you got high off of the 2017 mania and didn’t consider the legal ramifications of what was done.

IRS suddenly changed the rules so that people owe more than they have made. We are looking at a pretty fucked up situation.

[Anonymous No.8735221]

>>8735130
If you make 100k doing that sort of shit you'd would get fucked if you get audited. No question at all.

[Anonymous No.8735225]

>>8734702
Yeah, no, this is exactly how it works with stocks.

[Anonymous No.8735233]

>>8733766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLxUVACQF0

[Anonymous No.8735240]

>>8735192
Maybe in some places. In most places losses can only be taken forward. They can't help you with previous years.

[Anonymous No.8735249]

>>8735199
>BUT MOMMY I SOLD MY STOCKS BUT NEVER TOOK THEM TO MY BANK ACCOUNT, I JUST LEFT THEM IN MY TRADING ACCOUNT, I DON'T HAVE TO PAY NO TAX, THIS IS BULLSHIT.
>Yeah nah what you said is bullshit. But you've only committed a crime if you get caught, so good luck to you.

That argument doesn't work because the trading account was in fiat. It still counts as physical money. Nice try though, extra points for your confidence but you turned out to be retarded anyway.

[Anonymous No.8735254]

>>8735196
I know you keep clinging on to the like-kind hope but find me ONE accountant that will do it. You'd have to do it yourself and it pretty much guarantees an audit.

> it would be relatively easy for the IRS to identify taxpayers who treated their trades as like-kind exchanges. According to IRS data, just 235,274 tax returns included Form 8824 in 2013, the most recent year for which such data is available. That's just 0.15% of all tax returns filed in 2013, making Form 8824 a rare and easily identifiable filing.

>If the IRS decides to reject the use of Section 1031 for crypto-to-crypto trades, affected taxpayers would be on the hook for additional taxes and interest. There's also the possibility that the IRS will choose to assess an accuracy related penalty against such taxpayers for negligence or "substantial understatement of tax." The amount of such a penalty would be 20% of the additional tax assessed by the IRS.

>Unfortunately, treating crypto-to-crypto trades as like-kind exchanges might cause such an omission of income. In such a case, the IRS would have six years from when the tax return was filed to reject the use of Section 1031 and assess additional taxes, interest, and penalties.

[Anonymous No.8735264]

Who cares what the irs niggers say
I trade on binance, idex, ether/forkdelta so they don't know shit

[Anonymous No.8735269]

>>8735177
the simplest example possible
2017:
buy $1000 worth of verge at $0.001
trade all your verge into ethereum when it's worth $0.1 each, you realize a gain of $99k doing this\
2018:
hold ethereum until it losses 75% of its value
now it's april and your holdings barely cover the taxes or actually be worth less than required tax, because many people did worse than losing 75% especially when meddling with low rank shitcoins
and yes obviously he should've left aside the money for tax, but there's a fuckton of people in crypto that never did any tax reports yet, let alone capital gains tax, they didn't understand what they were doing

[Anonymous No.8735271]

>>8734812
No, that's not how it works, stupid.

You file your taxes. On your tax forms, you claim a profit or loss, a specific cash number.

YOU, as the tax filer, have to show the transactions that led to that number.

If you bought 10K worth of Bitcoin, at 5k, and cashed it out at 19k, you show the date and amount of that transaction, and they can compare it to the chart information everyone has.

If it lines up, you're good to go.

If you claim profits or losses, and can't show the transactions, you're fucked.

What, you weren't keeping records? On what fantasy land did you live in, where you imagined you'd never need them? What, were you blindly believing you wouldn't get taxed? Did you do NO research into what rules the IRS were considering? Do you keep no financial records at all?

I'm amused I have to explain this.

[Anonymous No.8735277]

>>8734574
Kys

[Anonymous No.8735282]

>>8735221
You pay taxes when you cash out. You don't have to record every trade to every player. And you certainly don't have to report every mob you slayed that year as well.

But according to the law. You have to record every mob you fucking killed to get your gold. YOU HAVE TO RECORD YOUR AUCTION HOUSE TRADES NOW.

[Anonymous No.8735291]

>>8735213
you don't say? that's the whole point, realize gain in 2017, realize loss in 2018 and you're fucked if you don't have the money to pay 2017 tax anymore

[Anonymous No.8735299]

>>8735240
Alright well, this is going to make life different. I guess moving forward...

[Anonymous No.8735314]

>>8735192
wrong. You can only deduct something like $3000 a year in capital losses. You can carry over additional losses to future years, but you can only deduct up to that amount from your income for tax purposes.

[Anonymous No.8735318]

>>8735269
>and yes obviously he should've left aside the money for tax, but there's a fuckton of people in crypto that never did any tax reports yet, let alone capital gains tax, they didn't understand what they were doing

The fact that they don't teach taxes in school has finally come home to roost.

[Anonymous No.8735321]

>>8734963
Tax laws aren't "struck down", Congress writes them, and amends them or rewrites them, and
I've seen nothing to indicate they have any interest in revisiting the tax laws they wrote on crypto. There's no way in god's living green hell Congress is going to even think about passing another tax bill until after 2020, and even then, maybe.

You can't sue Congress to change laws, either. You can challenge them in court, but good luck getting this to the Supreme Court, where this would need to go, and you'd need to show that it's unconstitutional - and good luck with that. And, failing should only cost you a cool couple of million dollars.
Waiting will only double down on how fucking stupid you are. But hey, anyone can file for an extension, but at the end of it, you're gonna pay your taxes.

[Anonymous No.8735333]

I calculated my taxes on Bitcoin.tax and I'll owe about $5000 to state and fed. I've considered just not paying, but I feel like that'll come back to haunt me later. Plus, like a fucking moron I signed up for Bittrex using my real name and phone number, so there is a paper trail that leads back to me. Probably better to just pay the extortioners

[Anonymous No.8735339]

>>8735051
>hide his gains
No legit lawyer would advise his client to commit tax fraud, that's how lawyers get thrown off the bar and into jail, stupid. This isn't the Sopranos or Better Call Saul, dummy.

[Anonymous No.8735349]

>mfw in the same discord from the troll master who made this reddit post

laughing at u retards and reddit cucks lmfao

[Anonymous No.8735351]

>>8735282
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/Virtual-currency-key-definitions-and-potential-aml-cft-risks.pdf

WOW gold is classified as “non-convertible” virtual currency. Crypto and shitcoins are classified as “convertible” and therefore subject to these tax laws. I know everyone loves making the slippery slope argument to vidya but they see it as distinct categories.

>Non-convertible (or closed) virtual currency is intended to be specific to a particular virtual domain or world, such as a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG) or Amazon.com, and under the rules governing its use, cannot be exchanged for fiat currency. Examples include: Project Entropia Dollars; Q Coins; and World of Warcraft Gold.

>Cryptocurrency refers to a math-based, decentralised convertible virtual currency that is protected by cryptography.—i.e., it incorporates principles of cryptography to implement a distributed, decentralised, secure information economy. Cryptocurrency relies on public and private keys to transfer value from one person (individual or entity) to another, and must be cryptographically signed each time it is transferred.

>Altcoin refers to math-based decentralised convertible virtual currency other than bitcoins, the original such currency. Current examples include Ripple; PeerCoin, Lite-coin; zerocoin; anoncoin and dogecoin. One popular exchanger, Cryptsy, would reportedly exchange over 100 different virtual currencies

[Anonymous No.8735352]

>>8735060
3k a year, max. Sorry. The Reddit guy is telling the truth.

[Anonymous No.8735356]

>>8735314
This is how it went out then I guess... cucked for my WoW gold. I never ever expected it to go this way.

[Anonymous No.8735367]

>>8735192
You can only claim 3k a year in losses, stupid.

Do you just post without even a quick google on the subject?

[Anonymous No.8735386]

>>8735264
And when the IRS asks for the trading history for the money you cashed out, what are you going to tell them?

Let's face facts: when that happens, you're going to shriek and cry like a little girl and do everything they tell you to do.

[Anonymous No.8735410]

>>8735386
Claim a cost basis of 0 and just say you lost the paperwork. Probably better in the long run than paying taxes on each trade.

[Anonymous No.8735432]

>>8735351
So if I figure out a way to make a "game" where the only point of the game is to store items. I can make a tax haven for everyone. Kind of like a bank I think.

Runescape has a crypto based around that already but I think this angle is interesting. If they are this explicit then they will be forced to change the law otherwise. I WILL DO THIS AND IT WILL BE A TAX HAVEN.

The reason for the slippery slope argument is that if they do exclude video games then we will force them to eventually.

[Anonymous No.8735434]

>>8733766
this is retarded. it's literally nothing. the laws protect you against this sort of obvious shit, you're just in an uncomfortable spot until the next tax season.

>at least you're not this guy
the IRS won't give a shit about a one time, 50k technicality in any case. there are literally millions of people with worse cases.

[Anonymous No.8735448]

>>8735410
>just say you lost the paperwork
LOL. Yeah, that'll work. Then the IRS will just tax it as income, and if you're lucky they won't audit you and consider fraud charges.

I know you're shitposting, but c'mon, one of the retards here is gonna try that now.

[Anonymous No.8735451]

how did the IRS know this faggot made 120k in profit? Did he cash out and then buy bitcoin again to buy alts?

[Anonymous No.8735456]

>>8735367
and another brainlet, you can claim however losses you want, BUT they have to happen in the same tax year
$3k of losses is the limit for carry over from a losing year to next years with gains to reduce tax

[Anonymous No.8735462]

Let's say you want to cash out some sort of exorbitant amount of money down the road. Like 2-3 million. Can you just say you don't have the records and pay the short term capital gains tax on your withdrawal and be done with it? Or would it raise suspicion simply because of the amount?

[Anonymous No.8735465]

>>8735451
Well, 120k sitting in a bank account with no W-2's or 1099's or any legit paper trail is a big fucking clue to the IRS and the bank, stupid. Some people DID cash out, and aren't larping little faggots who think they can outsmart professionals who look for this kind of thing.

[Anonymous No.8735483]

>>8735249
You never saw the money in your banking account. So it's not really fiat, it's not really fiat until the trading platform you use transfers the money to your real bank account. Binance has gives you a fiat estimate for your coins in your account. This is pretty much the same.

[Anonymous No.8735486]

>>8735462
That's a good way to have the Fed up your ass investigating you for money laundering for cartels or terrorists. You can't just have millions of dollars appear from nowhere with no paper trail. It just doesn't work that way. You'd be tangling with the horror show known as the Patriot Act with shit like that.

[Anonymous No.8735498]

The main problem with taxation of digital assets is that you can change how digital assets function. There is zero difference in practice from tax avoidance and tax evasion in this environment.

So the moment someone figures out a clever trick to make it so your wallet doesn't belong to you under some technicality or that a trade is actually not a trade but the destruction of something to create something else. Or a video game that allows people to own items they can buy and sell that is designed in a very specific way.

digital assets cannot be taxed the same way as physical assets purely because of this interchangeable and malleable nature.

When there is no fundamental difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance then the entire system falls apart.

This will not work.

[Anonymous No.8735531]

>>8735483
>So it's not really fiat, it's not really fiat until the trading platform you use transfers the money to your real bank account.

False, the number value was fiat so you know the exact amount. There is no guess work involved, Taxes on stocks is extremely straight forward.

Where as the fair market value of a crypto at the time of the trade is highly debatable.

[Anonymous No.8735586]

>>8735486
>That's a good way to have the Fed up your ass investigating you for money laundering for cartels or terrorists.

I have predicted for awhile now that Americans will be tortured for their keys within the next 5 years.

[Anonymous No.8735599]

>>8735465
I don't have crazy gains or anything and i have never converted my crypto back to fiat. Reading this type of shit really makes me worry about getting fucked by the tax man

[Anonymous No.8735618]

>>8735486
Ok sure I get where the concern comes from but what if I can't legitimately find my trades? Polo has all of my trades because I had so few there but when I go to Bittrex I can't find anything. They print me out a full trade history but there's definitely trades missing and the quantities and prices make no sense. Now I'm on Binance and haven't used Bittrex since at least last Fall

[Anonymous No.8735656]

>>8734465
If this is true, those who use bots must be in the hundreds of thousands owed tax dollars.

[Anonymous No.8735660]

The mulligan is that you lost your keys at this point.

[Anonymous No.8735684]

>>8735656
Not necessarily, because the cost basis on the lot you're trading resets with every exchange. If you cash out everything on December 31 the tax owed should be identical to calculating every trade.

[Anonymous No.8735739]

>>8734574
The 8949 where you report all the actual trades is filed as an electronic attachment to the 1040 Schedule D, where just the sum totals are reported.

[Anonymous No.8735910]

I swear to God none of you tards know how taxes work
Protip: fucking forget about it unless you cash out into fiat

>bbbut crypto to crypto trades are taxable events!!!
Irs cannot force you to liquidate your investment to pay for unrealized gains. Just think about how fucking retarded that is

[Anonymous No.8735931]

Fucking IRS normies ree

[Anonymous No.8735954]

Don’t pay IRS, problem solved

[Anonymous No.8735957]

Holy shit Americans are the most cucked citizens on the planet. This is what you get for electing a 70 year old glorified estate agent daddies boy who doesn't know what the internet even is. At least Obongo didn't tax fucking internet tokens. Jesus Christ. Imagine a few months spent trading fucking crypto, which isn't even properly defined in US law, then owing to the IRS more than you even made let alone owing anything at all.

[Anonymous No.8735996]

>>8733766
>reddit
Thanks just upboated 100k

[Anonymous No.8736128]

I have thousands of trades with maybe a quarter of them missing because some exchanges don't keep track.

I'm basically just paying taxes on how much my portfolio was worth in late December (plus cashouts) and hoping for the best.

[Anonymous No.8736158]

>>8735910
>bbbut crypto to crypto trades are taxable events!!!
>Irs cannot force you to liquidate your investment to pay for unrealized gains. Just think about how fucking retarded that is

Is that your legal defense? "Your honor, I didn't pay because it's fucking retarded." They don't care what you have to do to come up with the money, you still owe it.

[Anonymous No.8736182]

>>8736158
Uhh no. That's not how it works no matter how many of you cynical armchair accountants say so.

[Anonymous No.8736189]

We shoot thieves around these parts.

[Anonymous No.8736220]

>>8735059
Exactly what I was thinking. He should do nothing for now and wait for the market to recover. Tax returns can always be amended later. He's making a shitty situation even shittier for himself by selling at the bottom IMO.

[Anonymous No.8736223]

>>8736182
It is how it works, dumb fuck. If you think it's just an "armchair accountant's" opinion call or email any of these CPA's specializing in crypto taxes.

https://bitcoin.tax/cpa

[Anonymous No.8736258]

>>8734231
>>8734231
>>8734231

>>8734231
>>8734231
>>8734231

[Anonymous No.8736279]

>>8736182
https://www.bitcointaxsolutions.com/learn/bitcoin-tax-101/

It is how it works. Stop misleading people. Shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.8736283]

>>8736220
fucking normies dude. I ran the math and he made at least 120-130k in realized gains, yet took nothing out for taxes. then fucking panic sold at the START of the bull run. we've had green candles the past few days and he fucking sells now. god damn.

[Anonymous No.8736326]

>>8733766
I did the same thing only I playing with about $800 owed in taxes.

Waiting for my letter every day. I'm hoping I wasn't a big enough fish for Coinbase to rat me out to those FED kikes

[Anonymous No.8736362]

>>8736326
coinbase and gemini produced 1099-Ks if you made $20k in gross transactions

[Anonymous No.8736372]

>>8736326
Kek, no ones coming for you bud

[Anonymous No.8736405]

>>8733766
>https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/89ipyu/update_i_just_discovered_that_i_owe_the_irs_50k/

On the one hand 50k is a lot of money, but I don't think it's so much that it's life ruining

[Anonymous No.8736433]

>>8734852
Australia set up a special office to kill emus too, and we all know how that went.

[Anonymous No.8736572]

>>8735148
Any advice for a quick filing? My records are trash because I'm a kiddie that used literal shit coin exchanges and didn't think anything other than "buy" in june.

[Anonymous No.8736603]

What kind of communist country taxes unrealized gains?

[Anonymous No.8736608]

>>8735957
You ain't semen nothing. Watch this board in a few months when the tax man comes along.

All you children are fucked. Cannot wait.

[Anonymous No.8736615]

>>8733766
Cryptocurrency will be world banking, fractional reserve banking, federal reserve banks and the IRS's/SEC's undoing.

Enjoy that USD 'dip', kikelets

[Anonymous No.8736656]

>>8735599
Don't worry. You should read every post here:
>>8734231

[Anonymous No.8736732]

Can we just call it a hobby as small fries and put down our In and out?

[Anonymous No.8737720]

>>8733766
I've been writing continuously that this is the case.
It is game over for many anons if they are going to play by the book.
IRS has used this situation to tax the entire space of millions of real fiat!

[Anonymous No.8737735]

>>8735586
I am literally ready to die for my keys, they will never get them.

[Anonymous No.8737886]

>>8734548
20% exchange fee, without even operating an exchange
Damn son , IRS

[Anonymous No.8737897]

>>8733766
Only in fucking USA

[Anonymous No.8737987]

>losses arent deducted from taxable income in his shithole
>he has to pay taxes without having cashed out in his shithole
Only in the land of the free

[Anonymous No.8738011]

FUCK IT, now is a good time to BUY POHD at GROUND FLOOR FUCKING 50 ETH GUYS

https://pohd.io/exchange/
https://etherscan.io/address/0xbce39946abA431F8A244153cb8Aca6541625BC2E

[Anonymous No.8738039]

>>8734659

If crypto is property, then if you leave your crypto on an exchange where you don't own the keys, is it still your property? If you give your keys to someone else and they own them, do you no longer own this property and just "donated" it? I'm a complete brainlet when it comes to this shit but it seems easy to bypass if you just do this right?

[Anonymous No.8738146]

>>8738039
Yeah of course it's still your property. They have custody of it on your behalf, it belongs to you. If you deposit your money into a bank is it no longer your money just because they have custody of it?

[Anonymous No.8738188]

>>8738146

how would they know it's your money? Like if I give my friend $2 do I get taxed on a gain that I made selling shit at my garage sale even if I give my friend the profits? What?

[Anonymous No.8738212]

>>8733766
Obvious bullshit.

You pay capital gains tax on capital gains.
You don't pay capital gains tax on losses.

[Anonymous No.8738259]

In 2017 I earned 15 loot boxes in overwatch. I didn't report these earnings. Am I in trouble? Should I filreand amendment? Do you think they can find out how much virtual currency I made playing Oblivion?

[Anonymous No.8738264]

>>8735271
Jesus Christ you write so insufferably, I just want to strangle you to death

[Anonymous No.8738368]

>>8734975
Crypto is as much an asset as a magic card, they can choke on my dick.

[Anonymous No.8738424]

>>8733766
Couldn't he just not cash out? I mean you only really have to pay tax after you cash out don't you?

[Anonymous No.8738468]

Also, just don't use exchanges that require you to verify your identity just in case you get fucked over by taxes, use KuCoin because you don't need to verify your identity to take your crypto out and if you make a major loss just pretend it wasn't you and let it sit there.

[Anonymous No.8738491]

>>8734574
cointracking.info

[Anonymous No.8738559]

How the fuck are americans fine with this yall literally protest every shit possible but this one

[Anonymous No.8738620]

>>8738424
I can't believe the mutt system is so fucked up either. can't ask for capital gains without a fuckin gain!!!!! ffs why have the mutts not shot someone over this, they love shooting ppl

[Anonymous No.8738639]

>>8738620
I mean if they know that the system is so retarded why don't they just trade on lesser known exchanges without verifying their identity? They could just pretend it wasn't them.

[Anonymous No.8738747]

>>8734465

So, according to this, if I buy a Linen Shirt off the Auction House in World of Warcraft for 1 copper and resell it for 2 copper, i have an OBLIGATION to report it to the IRS. Just because WoW gold is technically a "virtual currency" too and i made a trade that involves this currency, so it's a taxable event.
So, do i have to declare that i owe 1 billionth part of 1 USD cent in taxes or go to jail for tax evasion?

[Anonymous No.8738789]

>>8734465

So, according to this, if I buy a Linen Shirt off the Auction House in World of Warcraft for 1 copper and resell it for 2 copper, i have an OBLIGATION to report it to the IRS. Just because WoW gold is technically a "virtual currency" too and i made a trade that involves this currency, i also made a profit of 1 copper, so it's a taxable event.
So, do i have to declare that i owe 1 billionth part of 1 USD cent in taxes or go to jail for tax evasion?

[Anonymous No.8738790]

>>8735207
You dick head, he profited from Coin A by selling and bought Coin B. At that point he should have set aside money for taxes. Instead he invested all of his tax money on Coin B and it depreciated greatly.

[Anonymous No.8738818]

>>8738747
Annon, I found a loophole. You should start playing games with "rings" instead of coins. This way you don't have to report your earnings! Rings aren't currencies like coins are... unless you consider them as gold... fuk, what is the tax policy on digital gold?

[Anonymous No.8738858]

>>8733766
OH SAY CAN YOU SHART

[Anonymous No.8738884]

Retards in this thread acting like crypto is suddenly not an investment nor an asset.

IRS is going to fuck you kids hard, your lives are ruined because you tried to get rich quick.

If you moved your portfolio around during peak and then never cashed out anything you are fucked. Nothing else to say. Fucked. You literally lost 100-120% of your entire portfolio because the coins went down 70% and you owe 30% of your peak profits. Lets use BTC as an example, moved it around 19k. Fell to 7k. Owe 8k in taxes.

[Anonymous No.8738930]

>>8733766
And this victim is still supporting the system and the obvious theft? What a cuck.

[Anonymous No.8738950]

>>8738884
oooh, shivering in my boots. You really tought us. Better file my taxes like a good goy, right Lavi?

[Anonymous No.8738961]

>>8738884
>Losing 120%

[Anonymous No.8739037]

how does the IRS know that you owe anything? cant you jsut not claim shit and get away with it since crypto is anonymous??? If I make it in crypto im just gonna leave america for a couple years and cash out in country that dosent rape me with taxez, is that a good plan can it work???? also this reddit post is normie boomer tier FUD

[Anonymous No.8739079]

>>8739037
Yes. I recommend becoming an estonian e-resident, cash in to company account (no company income tax) and then either buy stuff for company or take dividends with 20% tax. All this "all trades are taxable events" is pure nonsense here.

[Anonymous No.8739089]

>>8739079
thanks freind will screencap

[Anonymous No.8739237]

>>8739079

Until you have a new elections and a new government and they will enact a new tax reform, in which all crypto trades are taxed (and you'll be lucky if not retroactively). I know how it goes...

[Anonymous No.8739259]

So what if you make, say, 10 million from crypto using an initial investment of like 1k through Coinbase that you moved to an exchange like Kucoin that doesn't force KYC? Could you tether that 10 mil, and cash out maybe only 100k of it? Then you take that 100k and go down to the Caymans or some other tax haven, create a limited liability corporation and get a bank account in that LLC's name, and then hire some dude off the street to use his ID to make a new Coinbase account, and then withdraw funds through that account into the LLC bank account. Then just pay the taxes on the 100k if the IRS asks you about it while your other cash is safe in foreign bank accounts. Would that be sufficient? I mean 39.6% in taxes for short-term capital gains is pretty steep, I wouldn't mind so much paying 2 million (20%) for long-term capital gains tax but 39.6% is complete highway robbery.

This is all just hypothetical, BTW, if I actually had 10 mil I'd be off in lamboland.

[Anonymous No.8739264]

>>8739079
>>8739089

Until you have elections and a new government and they will enact a new tax reform, in which all crypto trades are taxed (and you'll be lucky if not retroactively). I know how it goes...

[Anonymous No.8739289]

>>8733766
He’a an idiot for declaring
> my lawyer told me to sell
Should have kept your mouth shut fucking retard lmao

[Anonymous No.8739671]

What if you trade a roll of toilet paper for a roll of paper towels, then paper towels, for napkins, then napkins for handkerchief, then handkerchiefs, for a cheap watch, then cheap watch for tamagotchi, then tamagotchi for 8GB USB drive, then 8GB USB drive for USB cable, then USB cable for baseball cap, then baseball cap for gloves, then gloves for sweater, then sweater for 64GB microSD card, then 64GB micro SD card for Bluetooth speaker, then Bluetooth speaker for vape, then vape for jacket, then jacket for...

1000 trades later you end up with a Lambo, which is worth more than a roll of toilet paper. Would you have to report all those trades to the IRS, or only if you sell the Lambo?

[Anonymous No.8739775]

>>8733766
ay yo, so you be trying to tell me that america has capital gains but does not have capital losses? top kek

[Anonymous No.8740018]

>>8734833

lol

t. tax accontant

[Anonymous No.8740030]

>>8735059

or you will when it doesnt

[Anonymous No.8740055]

>>8736279

its exactly the same as stocks work. i dont know why this is so hard for coinlets

[Anonymous No.8740151]

>>8734880
yeah they'll probably just store all of the data and eventually hire some programmer to develop some sort of bot that uses an algorithm to determine who has / hasn't paid their taxes

[Anonymous No.8740231]

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't he never have to pay tax again until he hits 50,000$ of income tax.

So say he made 100000$ in 2018, at his normal job, and owed 40000$ in taxes, his crypto loss would cancel that out?