/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.7963414]

>Inflation is good

How the fuck did the Jews ever convince normies of that bullshit.

[Anonymous No.7963462]

What's wrong goyim? We're just making more money, you want more money don't you?

[Anonymous No.7963489]

>>7963414
the opposite encourages saving and deters people from spending. how is an economy that utilises consumption as the engine going to survive during deflation?

[Anonymous No.7963508]

>>7963414
reminder to sage and hide leftpol threads

[Anonymous No.7963513]

>>7963489
then why would an economy that encourages consumption adopt crypto?

[Anonymous No.7963526]

>>7963508
How the fuck am I leftypol you moron

[Anonymous No.7963602]

>>7963513
oh no, the goyim know! sell everything now!

[Anonymous No.7963671]

>Oh yeah Goyim, just ignore the whole "2500% down since 1918 thing"

>You NEED this goyim.

>Yesssss, Good Goyim. Open up that BANK ACCOUNT LIKE I WILL YOUR BUTT CHEEKS YOU
GOOD GOYIM

>Oh? Whats that goyim? You want money for that depreciating asset that will cost you years of work?

>AWW YES GOYIM, TAKE OUT THAT LOAN GOYIM LET ME BLOW MY LOAD AS DEEP INTO YOUR CHILDREN AS POSSIBLE.

>AWW GOYIM KEEP GOING, GET THAT 100K IN STUDENT LOANS THAT WILL COST YOU 450K IN 40 YEARS AND YOU'LL PROBABLY DIE OF A HEART ATTACK IN YOUR 60'S LEAVING 200K OF IT FOR YOUR CHILDREN? Whats that? You missed that part of the contract while you were busy partying and riding tyrones dick?
>YES GOOD GOYIM.

>YES GOOD GOYIM NOW SWALLOW FOR GOYIM DADDY

[Anonymous No.7963691]

Inflation is good only if you're already rich and have a high income

[Anonymous No.7963725]

Small Inflation is needed in order to keep the economy up and growing do you even know how many people would loose their jobs if we would be living in a deflationary economy?

[Anonymous No.7963965]

>>7963414
BECAUSE I NEED TO GET IN DEBT TO BUY MY NEW PHONE OR ELSE I WOULD BE MADE FUN OFF

>mfw I actually met people who get loans for shit like phones and consoles and cars

disgusting

[Anonymous No.7964249]

>>7963513
If only there were an inflationary crypto with a time-tested network, huh?

[Anonymous No.7964295]

>>7963489
That the interest rate of savings accounts is less than the rate of inflation tells you that something is very wrong, no?

[Anonymous No.7964344]

>>7963508
ShareBlue right on time

[Anonymous No.7964514]

>use of twitch emotes outside of twitch
even more cringe than greentexting anywhere but 4chan

[Anonymous No.7964601]

>>7964295
oh yeah its fucking retarded. obviously in that case its up to commercial banks to become competitive and offer a better rate on savings accounts. theres some bank accounts that offer interest rates higher than inflation in my country, but those are usually either term deposits or you have to put so much money in / not take anything out of the account to achieve that rate

[Anonymous No.7964647]

DUDE YOUR LIFE SAVINGS BECOMING EXPONENTIALLY MORE WORTHLESS OVERTIME IS A GOOD THING DUH

now go consume some more goods that i produce with money you borrowed from me lmao

[Anonymous No.7964649]

>>7963671
>LEAVING 200K OF IT FOR YOUR CHILDREN

Surely you don't inherit debt in any first world country, though.

[Anonymous No.7964659]

>>7963725
I don't understand, just pay people less money since the monetary value of the dollar is worth more?

[Anonymous No.7964681]

>>7963462
Kek

[Anonymous No.7964724]

>>7963526

[Anonymous No.7964742]

>>7964724
>thinking usury is bad is jewish

[Anonymous No.7964777]

>>7964659
It's extremely hard to make people accept a salary dip. It's easier to make everyone's money worth less and increase the pay afterwards if needed.

[Anonymous No.7964809]

>>7963414
Inflation is a way to tax niggers that live off cash or gibs denominated in cash.

For people who actually contribute to the community and own businesses, land, houses, and other assets, they are unaffected and simply enjoy nominal appreciation.

[Anonymous No.7964835]

>>7964809
This really.

[Anonymous No.7964863]

>>7963414
Guilt is a powerful thing. No one dares question a kike that had all six of his grandparents turned into lampshades. There is not a single point in all of recorded history where the jew was not crying about how they were the victims... yet through all of recorded history they always acted like jews. It is in their nature.

[Anonymous No.7964905]

>>7963414
Inflation is normalized.
Normies will do anything, so long as it is normalized and their bodies don't have a natural aversion to it.
Even murder babies and eat shit if they were properly conditioned.
It's sad.

[Anonymous No.7964972]

I'm far from an expert in macro economics, but I have some common sense problems with inflation.
>Economy grows with more consumption
Do we need endless "growth"?
Earth's resources are finite, how can we possibly keep this up without depleting earth completely?
Would it be so bad that instead of buying stupid shit people would be more careful with their money and buy only what they really need?
I really find it retarded that being a slave to debt is considered normal in today's society.

[Anonymous No.7964985]

>>7964649
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/student-loans-die/story?id=19460467

[Anonymous No.7965055]

>>7963965
found the narc

[Anonymous No.7965058]

>>7964777
That's true. It's because people (including me) have zero sense of the amount of money being printed and its actual value in time. This should be way more transparent, so people would also sense economy as a whole, not just as an individual.

[Anonymous No.7965076]

if there was no inflation people wouldn't spend their dollars because it would be worth more each year. the dollar decreases all the time so people don't feel like holding on to it

[Anonymous No.7965107]

>>7964972

excellent thought, you are right. The desire for exponential growth cannot be sustained, we need ever more resources for ever growing populations and ever growing competition with other countries. The endless growth mindset was good during the industrial revolution but it is a very shortsighted way to look at the world, the earth cannot sustain the already massive population doubling again and again. in fact if it weren't for advanced agricultural and water treatment processes we simply couldn't support the massive amounts of humans that exist on this space rock.

what people don't understand is for the rapid growth that the leaders keep pushing and pushing, while the growth is being PUSHED forward we are being PULLED along with it in chains, that growth cannot exist without us working like farm animals.

[Anonymous No.7965112]

>>7965076

this is a shit argument. If you need to spend value you are going to spend it.

If your argument was true why aren't people immediately transferring all of their USD into something deflationary?

[Anonymous No.7965127]

>>7965058
Exactly. Banks would also hoard money and avoid investing it, since it would be a safer way of increasing worth.

[Anonymous No.7965178]

>>7963414
The kikes say that inflation is good because it encourages people to invest or spend money instead of just letting their money sit in some savings account. Meanwhile the wealthy use the cheap loans to speculate on Wall Street. While the working stiffs see their savings get cucked. Since wage cucks are far less likely to invest in the stock market than rich people.

[Anonymous No.7965194]

>>7964295
I mean US commercial paper yield is below inflation, JPY05Y is @-.109%, so....

[Anonymous No.7965230]

>>7965076
why should savers be punished and mindless consumers of bullshit rewarded?

[Anonymous No.7965255]

>>7965076

ok genius, that's exactly why you don't inflate currency. people won't autistically spend and put themselves into debt, is that really such a bad thing? yes it slows growth but that's not the only fucking metric that matters. by your logic we should just keep going until we have zimbabwe tier dollars

[Anonymous No.7965267]

>>7965107
I see. So economic growth is a competition between countries who can deplete their resources the fastest?

[Anonymous No.7965298]

>>7965255
Your average retard is always going to spend his money on retarded shit, inflation or not. Inflation only matters because it forces banks and businesses to actually invest the money rather than having it sitting in vaults as it was in the middle ages.

[Anonymous No.7965440]

>>7965267
imo economic growth is a competition to see who can gain/produce the most resources and technology, since both of those things increase the power of a nation. My point is that while the competitive mindset is good, it is not sustainable, every country is just a farm with a different farming technique (we are the farm animals), and the farms are starting to break apart since people are slowly realizing that the game is rigged (farmers are getting most of the "milk" while the our own children are getting a small fraction of it in comparison, enough only to keep the next generation alive for even more production)

the truth is there is so much wealth in this world, and especially with the amount of tech and food we have no one should be suffering or working like a slave. I am by no means a communist, I'm just saying that people are being misled to throw their lives away to work for something/someone that does not benefit them as much as if they worked for themselves.

>>7965298
>if there was no inflation people wouldn't spend their dollars because it would be worth more each year
>Your average retard is always going to spend his money on retarded shit, inflation or not

so which is it? your argument isn't even coherent. banks and businesses will invest in things regardless that's how they operate, inflation is a short term economic boost that can be useful but has side effects. It has to be used in conjunction with deflation for a healthy economy. Our US dollar is EXTREMELY inflated from just some decades ago, not acceptable

[Anonymous No.7965456]

>>7964972
good post

normies seem destined to be economic slaves

[Anonymous No.7965520]

>>7964972
Have a look at what happens when there is 0% inflation, or negative inflation

Inflation is important for the central bank/government/whatever to be able to control the economy. When you're at 0% inflation you can't respond to exogenous shocks as effectively.

Plenty of other reasons modest inflation is desirable

[Anonymous No.7965577]

>>7965520
Why do you imply that we need some sort of central bank, hm?

[Anonymous No.7965629]

>>7963508
Hello shill.

[Anonymous No.7965633]

>>7965577

as much as I hate to admit it, we do need a central bank, not cause it's the best thing for the people, but because without it we wouldn't be able to compete with more organized economies of other countries. inflation isn't inherently bad, but right now it is hurting us.

[Anonymous No.7965701]

>>7965577
Because all the other currency management systems don't work, including crypto.

[Anonymous No.7965741]

>>7965440
>banks and businesses will invest in things regardless that's how they operate
Lol no. When the economy was systemically deflationary (low middle ages), the ones making the more money were the ones who simply held their cash (Templars being a good example)

[Anonymous No.7965850]

>>7965701
I wouldn't say they don't work, I'd say they're untested in big scale.

[Anonymous No.7965893]

>>7965850
>swings wildly in value in a day-to-day basis
>too expensive to do any kind of trade

[Anonymous No.7965910]

These mental hoops people are jumping through to defend their wealth being silently taxed away and their economy being propped to crash

>>7963489
It does encourage overspending (coupled with cheap loans), but actual consumption actually eventually suffers when people become poorer and spend less.

>>7963725
Oh yeah sure, yes. We need somebody to manipulate our currency so that we can look like we're growing faster than we really are. That's totally useful and smart.

>>7964809
>le just avoid it argument
Remember to thank inflation when a new crash propped by it inevitably comes and all of the things you listed go -50% minimum.

>>7965076
>implying this affects fuck all on anybody's spending habits

>>7965298
>banks
>invest
As in dumping it all on stock markets and buying things they clearly have no idea about? But sure, BOJ owning like 40% of Japan's stock market is a good thing

>>7965520
>Have a look at what happens when there is 0% inflation, or negative inflation
Nothing. Are you equating deflation followed by a crisis with fair money? The exogenous shock is a fair point, but it should be able to be mitigated by war chests instead of inflation.

>>7963965
>>7964647
Indeed, fantastic system it is we have

>>7964972
Dude we need to grow faster than we are growing, get it?

>>7965633
It's inherently bad but it's true that it does give some sort of edge against the competition. In the long term it's most likely strictly harmful to a country though.

[Anonymous No.7965921]

>>7965741

I'm not calling for systematic deflation, I'm calling for the rampant unchecked greedy inflation to be culled. there has to be a balance.

>>7965893
it's a new tech. it is a viable system just needs time to develop and be adopted. crypto won't be taking over economies but it can become a useful interesting part of one.

[Anonymous No.7965941]

>>7965741
So, let them? If they hold it and just keep it out of circulation it doesn't affect anything, only decreases velocity. Or perhaps they _didn't_ just hold it and eventually spent it either way, inflation or not? Rich are gonna be rich either way, money doctoring doesn't change that

[Anonymous No.7965978]

>>7965741
This.

Inflationary currency incentivises spending white deflationary favours saving. Economies don’t grow unless people spend.

Ideally you want a currency to have a gradual inflation. Nothing too dramatic but just enough to make sticking money in the ground or under the bed a stupid idea

[Anonymous No.7965979]

>>7965893
Volatility isn't some technical aspect of crypto. It only changes rampantly right now because the market cap is smaller than USD or gold by and order of magnitude.
If you look at the changes in value of Bitcoin (%, not $), you'll see that volatility has got significantly smaller with market growth.

[Anonymous No.7965998]

>>7965978
Fantastic insight, did you parrot that from a keynesian "expert"?

[Anonymous No.7966046]

>>7965112
I am. It's called crypto.
Also if you are ofd fashioned use gold or silver.

[Anonymous No.7966076]

>>7965978
Why does an economy need to grow though no matter the circumstances?

[Anonymous No.7966077]

There's a list of what inflation does to your economy
>make your industry more competitive for export by lowering the relative wages
>encourages local production by discouraging imports since they become more expensive
>forces people to have their money in savings that are growing with inflation, ie. investing in the real economy
>raises prices so makes local businesses more profitable and healthier
Only rich trustfund retards want a deflationary economy.

[Anonymous No.7966088]

>>7965921
>I'm calling for the rampant unchecked greedy inflation to be culled
Central banks do everything to keep the inflation in the 1-3% range, I wouldn't call that "rampant unchecked"

[Anonymous No.7966096]

>>7965998
Do you want to actually make a counter argument? I bet you don’t even understand the real difference between Keynesian or Austrian economics.

[Anonymous No.7966102]

You've got the conspiracy theories mixed up. Jews are hated for being ursurers, they lend money. Inflation helps those who are in debt. The Jews suffer from inflation .

[Anonymous No.7966132]

>>7966077
>>make your industry more competitive for export by lowering the relative wages
>>encourages local production by discouraging imports since they become more expensive
These are the only valid points for inflation, and even they eventually bite back when your country inevitably becomes poorer (look at the US and what good inflation did to it) and the boom-crash cycle gets to its latter stage again.

>>forces people to have their money in savings that are growing with inflation, ie. investing in the real economy
ie. malinvest without having any idea what they're actually doing and being able to profit even if they made a net negative investment since it's still better than inflation
>>raises prices so makes local businesses more profitable and healthier
I don't fucking even, it doesn't increase the wealth on itself inside the economy

[Anonymous No.7966154]

>>7966096
I already made one.
>It does encourage overspending (coupled with cheap loans), but actual consumption actually eventually suffers when people become poorer and spend less.


>I bet you don’t even understand the real difference between Keynesian or Austrian economics.
Ah is that so? Is that your argument here?

[Anonymous No.7966188]

>>7965978
>keynesian economics

'economic growth' in the modern world does nothing but take money and freedom out of the normal person's life. 'economic growth' only benefits owners of the economy, who are are a tiny fraction of society

don't be so naive

[Anonymous No.7966203]

>>7966132
>ie. malinvest without having any idea what they're actually doing and being able to profit even if they made a net negative investment since it's still better than inflation
This is a good thing actually. New business need that money to take off, and if the economy was deflationary they wouldn't get this kind of investments.

[Anonymous No.7966226]

>>7966188
Those aren't keynesian economics anon, you got the wrong boogeyman there.

Keynesian economics are : the government must spend a lot to keep the economy running in crisis, ie. build a huge wall on the mexican border.

[Anonymous No.7966234]

>>7966203
Then just use tax money if you wanna make horrible investments on a governmental level. Actually, they seem to be on it already too

[Anonymous No.7966247]

>>7966076
I wouldn’t say "need", but if your question is "why should we want our economy to grow", then id reply by simply asking you what you think an economy represents ultimately and what a small economy represents.

The larger an economy, the more wealth, value and services (more: not I do not say "money") being exchanged, which means we are work together more to reach our own pursuits.

A very small economy would be one were very people are trading goods and services, so less cooperation and mutually beneficial trades

[Anonymous No.7966255]

>>7966226
Inflation is one of the key control mechanisms advocated by keynesians though, can't say they're not related.

[Anonymous No.7966304]

>>7966255
Inflation was first advocated by Adam Smith as a mean to regulate the wages according to the supply and demand, it's not something exclusive to keynesians.

>>7966234
>Then just use tax money
This is keynesian economics. The goal of keeping the inflation around 2% is actually to keep investors just out of the comfort zone and look for rewarding yet not perfectly safe invests.

[Anonymous No.7966312]

>>7964863
>There is not a single point in all of recorded history where the jew was not crying about how they were the victims

Truth. In Mein Kampf Hitler discusses how he stuggled with the concept of anti-Semitism at first. He felt guilty to even start researching it, due to all the genocide committed on them before his time.

He was also a soyboy vegan artist/autist who was wagecucking with politically correct lefties, before getting one HELL of a redpill and powering up to Fuhrer level. Sounds familiar....the more things change, the more they stay the same eh?

[Anonymous No.7966326]

>>7966154
When I said "spending", I’m not exclusively talking about consuming, but also investing. How is a situation where just holding cash is better than invest better for society exactly? Because that’s what you get with deflationary currencies, money having artificial value.

And again nothing I said is Keynesian so you still look like an idiot for saying I’m parroting their talking points. A mined crypto currency is inflationary but isn’t keynesian you dolt.

[Anonymous No.7966328]

>>7966247
Just throwing some ideas.
Isn't there a specific "level" of economy from which more growth creates too much inequality? Like the rich are running out of ideas what to buy and the lower class are struggling just to make it?

[Anonymous No.7966359]

>>7963489
>saving money is bad goyim, just let the state pay for your retirement

[Anonymous No.7966366]

>>7966326
>How is a situation where just holding cash is better than invest better for society exactly?
So people wouldn't invest in things that are not worth investing? The fact that people are blindly throwing money to shitcoins tells me that $ is way too cheap.

[Anonymous No.7966375]

>>7963414
Because a human is inherently lazy and needs to be forced to move forward.

[Anonymous No.7966383]

>>7966304
>This is keynesian economics
Yes, and I wouldn't endorse it. Sure you're right, it can increase growth, but on the other hand it does drive boom-bust cycles and the net benefit of it in the long term is arguable. Why not just let things develop the way they naturally would?
Malinvestment is a real issue too, rich people are the ones most interested about investing and they're always going to (no, they don't just keep their money out of circulation forever), but the common joes simply aren't capable of investing and then you have things like TSLA and AMZN stocks. It's impossible to say the money poured at those companies helped the economy grow more than it decreased the wealth and spending power of the economy as a whole. Things are only gonna get worse when an actual crisis hits and velocity increases

[Anonymous No.7966415]

The real shocker is that they conned retards into believing people wouldn't buy anything without inflation. Like, they'd just wait decades for their wealth to increase, never mind the fact that they'd be too old to enjoy their increased purchasing power.

[Anonymous No.7966441]

>>7963489
Why do we want an economy that encourages consumption? Fuck consumerism

[Anonymous No.7966544]

>>7963671
>>AWW GOYIM KEEP GOING, GET THAT 100K IN STUDENT LOANS THAT WILL COST YOU 450K IN 40 YEARS AND YOU'LL PROBABLY DIE OF A HEART ATTACK IN YOUR 60'S LEAVING 200K OF IT FOR YOUR CHILDREN
You generally can't pass on debt

[Anonymous No.7966558]

>>7966366
>tells me that $ is way too cheap.
What does that even mean? That $1 should be worth $2? Now you’re talking nonsense.

>>7966328
That’s an issue that no one has really been able to solve with out a lot of people dying, or everyone losing.

Youre always going to have massive wealth inequalities in a society where one person thinks they should be able to support a large family as a McDonald burger flipper and another person is Elon musk. Society rewards innovators and risk takers (entrepreneurs and investors), if they pass those skills and wealth into their children, the gap just grows.

The only peaceful solution I can think of would be to simply get the rich to have money children per family than the poor (thus dividing their wealth more). That’s a tall order when Africans pump out eight kids per family

[Anonymous No.7966596]

>>7966558
>The only peaceful solution I can think of would be to simply get the rich to have money children per family than the poor (thus dividing their wealth more).
That would be encouraged by tax breaks honestly. This is a good idea.

[Anonymous No.7966627]

>>7966558
"Cheap money" refers to the ability to raise capital. This is often linked to low interest rates. You can imagine that youd need to put up advertisements to find investors, when money is cheap, you need to advertise less. Investors also expect a lower rate of return when money is cheap.

[Anonymous No.7966633]

>>7964985
So basically your children can't inherit your debt, but maybe, just maybe, if you got a private student loan and live in a specific area and have no estate your spouse might have to pay it off. Wow dude the joos are totally evil lmao

[Anonymous No.7966657]

>>7966558
Research shows that 80% of family weather disappears within 3 generations.

[Anonymous No.7966676]

>>7966441
Because "consumption" is really just mutually beneficial transactions in a free market society. More transactions = more development = better/cheaper products.

[Anonymous No.7966686]

>>7963414
>But goyim, that $63 dollars in 1970 is now worth $400! That's more money for you!

[Anonymous No.7966689]

>>7966326
Keynesianism is the economy we're living in, stop trying to dodge around the matter. If we're talking about inflation it's in the context of keynesianism.

>money having artificial value
No, money having whatever value the economy supports. Tell me how that's more artificial than somebody printing more and manipulating the circulation arbitrarily?

>How is a situation where just holding cash is better than invest better for society exactly
Malinvestments _aren't_ a net positive on the economy. Think Tesla making worthless gimmick cars and wasting tons of earth's resources when real manufacturers are doing the same thing but actually sustainably. But no, who cares about investing in Ford or VW, it's not cool and hip like Tesla. Who cares about fundamentals when we're just building a pyramid and throwing our loan money on anything that's nice? The inflationary stimulus seems to be working as intended.

[Anonymous No.7966693]

>>7966558
>$ is cheap
I mean it's cheap relatively to other things.

[Anonymous No.7966709]

>>7966676
Imagine everyone buys a nice hat. Consumption is up, but is society better for it? Probably not. Underconsumption is bad but so is overconsumption, waste and a distorted economy.

[Anonymous No.7966823]

>>7963414
the same way they convinced them that interest on money was a necessary part of a functioning economy: first world countries are not shitholes therefore it must be working.
Some tards here truly believe this

[Anonymous No.7966844]

>>7966709
Exactly. Just let the economy develop the way it naturally does, please. Stirring it up even more with phony currency is not productive

[Anonymous No.7966929]

>>7966844
Also fair money is fair. We've seen that inflation eventually leads to no good, so why are we still rejecting a system that's more consistent and at least doesn't redistribute wealth unfairly for no net benefit?

[Anonymous No.7966945]

>>7966689
>Keynesianism is the economy we're living in, stop trying to dodge around the matter. If we're talking about inflation it's in the context of keynesianism.
I’m not trying to dodge anything. I was talking about inflation, not the government using taxes to fuel an economy, which Im not a fan of, Im not a Keynesian. Why can’t you just accept you fucked up on that one.

>Tell me how that's more artificial than somebody printing more and manipulating the circulation arbitrarily?
My whole point is you are going to be less likely to spend your money if you know it will be worth more down the line. The reason why this is bad because it disincentives growth.

The problem we face is that our population keeps growing, so if you have zero inflation money will still gain value simply due to their being more people, so you need at least some inflation to offset that so again, money isn’t just stored.

That just my opinion, which you really haven’t argued. I’m not arguing for Keynesian economics, so can you just drop that already, and I’m not arguing for large inflation.

>>7966709
I agree, again I don’t think inflation should be massive, you need a balance between incentiving investing and trade, and overconsumption.

>>7966657
I know, it’s the other 20% that cause the massive inequality. Personally I don’t feel very passionality about "wealth inequality", but if I were to try and lessen the divide, encouraging rich couples to have lots of kids is how I would go about it

[Anonymous No.7966956]

>>7966823
But how will you afford a house without easy credit? And so on. They refuse to admit that easy credit drives prices up in the first place.

[Anonymous No.7967001]

>>7966676
>just mutually beneficial transactions in a free market society.

Not if you're forcing them to spend, no. If you force people to spend their money or else they'll lose it, ends up with landlords and other inelastic demand assets absorbing all of the new disposable income, there's a reason some items are inflation resistant and there's a reason the elite controls their supply.

There's nothing beneficial in a transaction when your rent goes up 100$/year.

[Anonymous No.7967053]

>>7966945
>My whole point is you are going to be less likely to spend your money if you know it will be worth more down the line
No, I honestly am not. And so aren't rich people. Money always creates more money, and if somebody who's rich doesn't care about that, it doesn't matter much whether you have 1-2% yearly inflation or not, they aren't gonna do it. But most of the time rich people do care about getting more money and investing. 1% or less yearly deflation isn't gonna change that, and investment gains would also adjust to the deflationary effect.

>That just my opinion, which you really haven’t argued. I’m not arguing for Keynesian economics, so can you just drop that already, and I’m not arguing for large inflation.
You're arguing for manipulated currency. I'm arguing against manipulation. If you wanna manipulate, do it somewhere else. Not that I wouldn't be ok with modest inflation, but history shows that it's always gonna go overboard if the currency is able to be manipulated.

[Anonymous No.7967089]

>>7963725
The us dollar was a deflationary currency pre 1913 you mong and the economy was doing just fine. There was also no income tax before the fed took control.
Us citizens have lost 97% in purchasing power and cucks like you will defend this. That is why the entire planet is going to shit because you dumb sheep will literally walk to the slaughterhouse and bleat happily all ang the way

[Anonymous No.7967154]

>>7967089
>Us citizens have lost 97% in purchasing power
jej do you really believe this ?

[Anonymous No.7967163]

>>7966415
indeed, but there's something even more ridiculous from this Keynessian nonsense, which is that they believe (or pretend to) that if nobody spends their money a static supply currency will not lose value.

In deflation, the value of the currency depends exclusively on the productive output of those accepting it as a means of exchange. If there's no consumption there's no productive output, therefore the currency devalues, so why, again, would people not spend?

[Anonymous No.7967171]

>>7966945
>so if you have zero inflation money will still gain value simply due to their being more people
Also this - do you seriously think this is a key factor to anything? Deflation doesn't really even decrease CPI in the long term (go look up the charts on fred), it mostly keeps flatlining (in contrast to inflation violently eating purchasing power away). And if somebody who's been in the game for like 50 years has had their money appreciate, I don't see that as a problem.

[Anonymous No.7967181]

>>7966544
You cant pass on federal loans. Student debt are private loans. God they got you goyim good. Poor things. haha, literally.

[Anonymous No.7967193]

>>7963414
ICX and XLM are inflationary yet somehow normies are convinced that it's a good investment

[Anonymous No.7967227]

The jew argument against inflation is always that people would stop consuming if the currency gained in value. Yet people will line up to buy the newest iphone at $1000 when they can pick it up for half the price a year later. By that logic noone would buy electronics ever because they alwas get cheaper over time. You cucks need to stop buying into jewish lies inflation is not neccessary for a healthy economy in fact for thousanda of years currencies used to be gold an deflationary asset. Wake the fuck up and stop parrotting this bullshit

[Anonymous No.7967250]

>>7967227
>in fact for thousanda of years currencies used to be gold an deflationary asset.
And those economies were poor as fuck by our standards.

[Anonymous No.7967267]

>>7963489

>Excess consumption is good for you goy
>You don't need to save goy, the state will take care of you

You've taken a full dose of the blue pill you retarded normie, get the fuck out of here

[Anonymous No.7967276]

>>7966676
Your answer to "fuck consumerism" is to suggest consumption allows for cheaper products. Are you sure you understand the post you're replying to? Having a better iphone or a cheaper car means nothing to the person who wants clean air or a sustainable society that's not kicking the can of environmental problems down to the next generations. There is an ideal level of material comfort for each person, and as technology advances more and more people will reach it and be more concerned about preserving nature and social fabric.

It's not "mutually beneficial" for me to have my government import violent and illiterate populations so the bankers can make them take on new debt and reach gdp goals of their perpetual growth model. I'd take a slash of 3/4 of my networth if it meant I could live in a society of like-minded people of my ethnicity. Of course, this doesn't exist anymore (I am not American). My people have been ideologically subverted, and the remainder have been demographically replaced. While consumption can be used as a tool to reach an ideal equilibrium point, once the behavior is ingraned it's very easy for consumerism to go beyond harmony and disrupt balance to the point humanity itself is consumed.

[Anonymous No.7967280]

>>7967154
Its not about me believing it its 100% objective fact ypu dipshit

[Anonymous No.7967287]

>>7963414
>no inflation
>people hoard gold and money
>why would I invest my capital when just keeping it neets me more purchase power without risk
>whenever there is uncertainty people hoard gold and fiat turning any slight dip into a massive crash and a bank run.


>inflation
>you have to invest and put ur money to work or else you lose money
>hoarding money and gold Become useless, people invest in property, stocks etc

Only uneducated rednecks who never actually studied economy beyond YouTube believe inflation is bad

[Anonymous No.7967294]

>>7967053
>You're arguing for manipulated currency. I'm arguing against manipulation. If you wanna manipulate, do it somewhere else. Not that I wouldn't be ok with modest inflation, but history shows that it's always gonna go overboard if the currency is able to be manipulated
To clarify I’m advocating for inflation in the form of crypto mining or based on an algorithm relative to population growth or whatever, decentralised, not decided on a whim by government. I’m with you in not wanting manipulation in that form.

[Anonymous No.7967319]

>>7967280
>Its not about me believing it its 100% objective fact ypu dipshit
But it's wrong. Honestly saying the average Joe in 1918 had better purchasing power than the average Joe in 2018 is retarded.

[Anonymous No.7967332]

>>7967250
Maybe that has more to do with the level of technological advancement and population size. The industrial revolution also did happen during a deflationary currency, so I don't see there being hard counterexamples to deflation in history. Most of the ones are those where deflation happened _after_ the economy went to shit (usually because of lending), and then keynesians end up blaming deflation. It's funny, they even blamed deflation for triggering the great depression while that's obviously false

>>7967294
If inflation is distributed equally, it does nothing. If it's not distributed equally, it just maybe might bring some benefit, but most likely it's just gonna fuck with people. Preferably just do away with it altogether, things would be much simpler.

[Anonymous No.7967335]

>>7967250
You are really dumb as shit dude and keep ignoring most of my arguments.

[Anonymous No.7967395]

>>7967332
>Maybe that has more to do with the level of technological advancement and population size
Today's technological progress is nearly fully driven by consumer spending tho.

[Anonymous No.7967405]

>>7966956
If less people can afford houses then the prices would go down. And people have to be more careful and plan more when buying real estate.

[Anonymous No.7967426]

>>7967335
Correction : those economies were poor as shit, with the shittiest social and economic mobility, extremely high standard of living inequalities and the most blatant market manipulation and counterfeiting ever.

[Anonymous No.7967427]

>>7967276
>Starts out with a reasonable post regarding environmental ideals
>Turns into a racist rant about wanting an ethno-state
Ah /biz/...

[Anonymous No.7967428]

>>7967276
>Having a better iphone or a cheaper car means nothing to the person who wants clean air or a sustainable society that's not kicking the can of environmental problems down to the next generations.
A better phone or car would be a more environmentally friendly one.

I agree with your second paragraph, I’m am against mass immigration.

[Anonymous No.7967461]

>>7967428
No, a better iPhone or car is the one you don't buy. Buy one decent cheap Android phone and use it for years. Buy a bike, live near work, and skip the car

If you need fancy stuff to live you're a slave to the system. The richest kings of a hundred years ago didn't have this stuff, do you really need it?

[Anonymous No.7967479]

>>7967395
But not overspending, that only drives mindless speculation and boom-bust cycles. Letting things develop naturally would let us progress naturally. I'm not saying inflation can't produce positive effects, but in the long term manipulated money is still clearly net harm, and any benefits of inflation altogether are questionable. So seriously, if the choice is between a manipulated to hell inflationary currency and one that works naturally, then we should stop pretending that manipulation is good

[Anonymous No.7967500]

>>7967405
>If less people can afford houses then the prices would go down.
Why ? People still need a place to live. It will simply make people live in hovels and slums. People tend to forget that during the industrial revolution, in a (naturally due to pop growth) deflationary monetary system, people were also living in hovels even worse than their grandparents did.

[Anonymous No.7967527]

It increases the lowerbound for interest rates. If you don't know what that is, dont bother posting on a "business and finance" board. Also this
>>7964777


>>7964972
Resources are finite but human capital and efficiency is not. We can make more with less hence "growth."
Manageable debt is not a bad thing and intertemporal budgeting/smoothing is generally a good thing.

[Anonymous No.7967533]

>>7965577
read up on the history of money. a central bank makes it so that your money from your bumville town is also accepted at the big town miles away without devaluation

[Anonymous No.7967545]

>>7967500
Are you serious? Less demand for fancy houses would obviously bring down their prices. We live better purely because of technological advancement and overall structural development made possible by the industrial revolution, not thanks to fucking inflationary currency. In fact, the average American is poorer than 50 years ago, you can thank inflation for that.

[Anonymous No.7967582]

>>7967527
>It increases the lowerbound for interest rates
What? How's that been working in your opinion?

[Anonymous No.7967593]

>>7967395
It's getting better for the wealthy countries. BUT we're now at a point that we have the technology and resources to solve world hunger and give everybody education, but it's not beneficial to those with power. The inequality just rises until the poor have nothing else to eat than the rich.

[Anonymous No.7967596]

>>7967545
>We live better purely because of technological advancement
There has been nearly to no technological improvement in housing construction between the 30s and nowadays and yet nowadays nobody live in slums. How so ?

Also
>In fact, the average American is poorer than 50 years ago
You better prove it you mong.

[Anonymous No.7967599]

>>7967582
Quite well?
Switzerland and Japan have tried negative nomonal interest rates but the jury is still out. In the mean time the lowerbound rule still holds.

[Anonymous No.7967604]

>>7967461
If we all thought like that, we’d still be using twrribly inefficient and environment unfriendly steam engines and cars.

Im not defending buying a new iPhone every year, but if no one buys anything, if there’s no demand, and thus no incentive for another company to produce a better product, we and future generations are stuck with inefficient s environmentally damaging tech. The whole reason wind, solar, nuclear... etc are being developed is because there’s a continuing demand for electricity, rather than just sticking to candles and coal like you’re basicalky sujesting.

The idea and hope is eventually we can keep developing to the point where we can have our cake and eat it, where we have technology that is very efficient and enviromentally friendly. In order for that to develop there needs to be a demand for it.

[Anonymous No.7967631]

>>7967596
>There has been nearly to no technological improvement in housing construction between the 30s and nowadays .
Horribly false.
>>7967545
HAHAHAHAHAHAH even more false.

[Anonymous No.7967655]

>>7967427
>say i'm not american
>american reads this and applies his american slant of the idea
I don't care about your racism, your ethno-state and your multiculturalism. You are just pushing american imperialism on my culture. Obviously, here I am on an english-speaking platform - as your ancestors were more competitive and dispossessed my ancestors, I have to live with the world as it is and not as I wish it is. Ultimately, it doesn't change my point: the final effect of consumerism is death. Human beings are just as much part of biodiversity as birds and fishes. When everyone has the same features, speaks the same language, lives the same way and believes the same thing, something has been lost. Especially as the current dominant cultures, America and China, do not care one bit for preserving the Earth.

[Anonymous No.7967658]

>>7967596
Just look up a CPI chart man. I'm off to work now.

>>7967599
Ah so you were referring to decreasing it.

>the jury is still out
Yes I know, I can give it to you: it's a dumb fucking system.

>>7967631
>HAHAHAHAHAHAH even more false.
wow

[Anonymous No.7967706]

>>7967631
>Horribly false.
Except for business high-rises and skyscrappers and not using asbestos anymore, there's nothing that has structurally lowered the housing prices compared to 1930. It's still concrete,plaster, paint, plumbing, wiring and manpower.

Yet nowadays we are able to house people so cheaply that there is no slums in our countries anymore, and families of 12 don't live in 20sqm neither, why that if not for cheap credit and incensitive to spend money in stable and nearly riskless investments ?

[Anonymous No.7967741]

>>7967658
>Just look up a CPI chart man. I'm off to work now.
>muh dollar lost 95% of its value so that means that the average US citizen is poorer than 100 years
Are you retarded or didn't you look at the salaries chart in the same time ?

[Anonymous No.7967748]

>>7967655
>You are just pushing american imperialism on my culture
He’s arguing for cultural and ethnic isolationism, the opposite of imperialism.

How did you manage to interpret a nationalist isolationism post as globalism, because what you’re complaining about is globalism.

[Anonymous No.7967753]

>>7967658
>Ah so you were referring to decreasing it.
Decreasing what? Interest rates? I just meant in general inflation creates a larger lowerbound. I dont think you know what we are talking about.
>Yes I know, I can give it to you: it's a dumb fucking system.
The intuition makes sense, people now hate holding cash to the point nominal interest needs to be greater than or equal to zero.
>wow
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and post this saying you are only terribly wrong because you dont know what wealth is.
But pic related says you are wrong and doesnt even factor in real wealth gains. I mean even dumb comperative measures like LICO aay you are wrong. But Im going to give you a little secret. If your iPhone is only somewhat more expensive than grandpas Carphone you are way wealthier. The poorest Americans have better computers in their pockets than the richest company could get back then. Your car is of a higher quality. The list goes on.

[Anonymous No.7967826]

>>7967706
Uhh high rises is kind of a major thing anon. We are also more efficient at using space in normal houses
>>7967658
And also CPI literally stands for consumer price index. It is not a measure of wealth.

[Anonymous No.7967851]

>he doesnt know the god tier power of negative real interest on rolling government debt.

[Anonymous No.7967861]

>>7967753
Damn, wages are higher than inflation, what the fuck would that mean wow ?

>>7967826
When I mean high-rises I mean 30+ floors office buildings. 10-floor residential buildings existed in the 30s and there were still slums in the outskirts of any western industrial city.

[Anonymous No.7967868]

>>7967741
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPALTT01USQ661S

income increase since 1984: +20%
cpi increase sicne 1984: +160%

I don't know why I bother, the info is there for anybody to see


>>7967753
Decreasing the lower bound, idiot. Not "increase", making something more negative is not increasing it

>The intuition makes sense, people now hate holding cash to the point nominal interest needs to be greater than or equal to zero.
And then pool it into stocks, and stocks are now the go-to savings account. What could go wrong

[Anonymous No.7967890]

turning off my laptop now, hope you'll have BTFO'd my arguments thoroughly when I come back

[Anonymous No.7967921]

>>7967868
>https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
You should read the fucking chart you mong, it's adjusted for CPI. Guess what, the median income is rising, adjusted for inflation.

[Anonymous No.7967945]

>>7963489
>how is an economy that utilises consumption as the engine
there's your answer; your debt-slavery based central kiking systems are bad for the goyim
OY VEY

[Anonymous No.7967946]

>>7966633
>OY VEY!

[Anonymous No.7967956]

>>7967868
You seem confused. Google lowerbound rule and Taylor rule.
Also learn to read your chart it literally says you are wrong. And that's before substitution and quality bias.

[Anonymous No.7967958]

>>7965910
>le

Stopped reading

[Anonymous No.7969029]

How do you guys who love inflation allocate your savings? All in on stocks, right?

[Anonymous No.7969580]

>>7963489
dude fucking kill yourself

[Anonymous No.7969680]

>>7969029
Stocks+Real estate

[Anonymous No.7970708]

>>7966375
based on what? if the majority were inherently lazy then we would still be hunter gatherers

[Anonymous No.7970859]

>>7970708
There are always exceptions to the rule. War Lords and other over-achievers who push the whole humankind to new heights. Majority is just lazy cattle.

[Anonymous No.7971912]

>investing is so hard!! I wish I could put my money under the mattress and make money this way!!

ahahahaah anyone who complains about inflation is either a fucking brainlet or an ultrapoorfag, either way kys

[Anonymous No.7971948]

>>7966929
>fair money is fair
>inflation eventually leads to no good
So much fucking this.

[Anonymous No.7972021]

>>7964724
Nice id

[Anonymous No.7972715]

>>7967826
>CPI literally stands for consumer price index. It is not a measure of wealth.

[Anonymous No.7972998]

>>7967890
normies and retards gonna be normies and retards. you can't save em all.

[Anonymous No.7973049]

>>7963414
I think Keynes and the government and then the media is what convinced ppl this was good. Nowadays its all Keynesian and chicago school economics.

[Anonymous No.7973077]

>>7963414
They believe that it incentivizes spending which keep the economy churning. This is what they teach in schools.

[Anonymous No.7973108]

>>7963725
Ppl would be able to pay for more shit cuz it costs less yes? So the economy would adjust. Inflation is bullshit. Let ppl save more. Let prices come down so consumers money goes farther.

[Anonymous No.7973174]

>>7965633
You do not need central banks. That is monopoly by decree. Without CB you can have clearing houses iirc. So you can actually get competition back into banking. That would give us an edge more so than a corrupt CB with its tentacles wrapped around our government.

[Anonymous No.7973378]

>>7966544
kek