/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.767718]

What effect would a war be likely to have on Canada's fucked up housing market?


pic related, it's what over 2mil gets you in Toronto

[Anonymous No.767731]

lrn2renovate faggot

inb4 anything about parquet

[Anonymous No.767732]

War, on Canadian soil or attacking isis or some other pointless endeavor? Basically no effect on the latter and short of an alien invasion the first part is impossible.

[Anonymous No.767734]

>>767732
Let's say a war breaks out between the US and China, or they send troops to Syria.

A friend of mine who is in the army thinks there is a very good chance of Canadians being sent to Syria. I just didn't know what sort of an effect it might have on the market, if any.

>>767731
why do i need to learn to renovate

[Anonymous No.767776]

>>767718

lel

Friend of mine bought an almost identical looking house and same exact square footage for $185k here

[Anonymous No.767789]

>>767776
Yeah, where I live that would be about $270k. Toronto is nuts.

[Anonymous No.768101]

>>767776
>>767789
Not such thing as affordable housing in Toronto/surrounding area any more.

You can drive an hour or more in any direction from Toronto and be hard to find homes for less than $250K

>Cheap condos do exist, but they are cheap because maintenance fees are stupid high $500-1200/month

Brampton, Milton, Mississauga, Oakville, Shelburne , Vaughn all are stupid expensive for new homes
Detached are 500+, semi's are 350+


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/real-estate-woes-the-secret-lives-of-house-poor-canadians-1.3086793
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/house-poor-couple-debt/article24370722/
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/crazy-canadian-credit-confronts-crude-eh-vikram-mansharamani

Unless you want to live in some over priced shack like this..

[Anonymous No.768103]

What's weird is why the fuck would anybody want to live in Toronto?

[Anonymous No.768112]

>>768103
>What's weird is why the fuck would anybody want to live in Toronto?
Jobs/City life ?

Suburban sprawl isn't nearly as bad as in the states, but nearly everything interesting is in Toronto

I find it more crazy that people are alright with a 60-90 minute commute each way to and from work.

[Anonymous No.768115]

>>767734
>A friend of mine who is in the army thinks there is a very good chance of Canadians being sent to Syria.

so what is your point ? how does sending soldiers affect the housing situation/the economy ?
not like sending soldiers to afghanistan did anything over here.


Low interest rates and this crazy market/the feeling of "missing out" are what is fueling the rising prices.
Too many households are literally one bump away from financial ruin.

[Anonymous No.768120]

>>767718
You're acting as if a 2 story, 4 bedroom 5 bathroom house in a city is somehow expensive for 2 mil. It's a lot of money, but for that house in that location it doesn't seem overly expensive. For an extra 200k you can purchase a 3 bedroom 4 bathroom home in my city, http://www.domain.com.au/property/for-sale/house/qld/south-brisbane/?adid=2011398729&sp=3

[Anonymous No.768138]

>>768101

That is literally a $30k house in my area

[Anonymous No.768181]

>>768112
Toronto is the Houston of Canada

[Anonymous No.768187]

>>768138
Detroit?

[Anonymous No.768272]

>>768120
>You're acting as if a 2 story, 4 bedroom 5 bathroom house in a city is somehow expensive for 2 mil. It's a lot of money, but for that house in that location it doesn't seem overly expensive. For an extra 200k you can purchase a 3 bedroom 4 bathroom home in my

Why try to compare two houses in two bubble markets ?

Realistically speaking most homes in the GTA are over valued between 25-40%

Are there any new homes being built that don't cost more than 500K these days ?

Meanwhile wages have been stagnant for ~15 years, so where is this extra money coming from to afford these homes ?

[Anonymous No.768280]

>>768138
this, almost
In Newport,KY(near a big city) there are houses that LOOK similar to this for 50k. They don't have 5 bathrooms. Maybe 3. &they usually don't have garages, so there is that. And the area isn't great. lol.

That said, I don't think 2mill is justified.

~20 minutes outside the city there are houses just like that for 160k - 200k in Kentucky.

[Anonymous No.768284]

>>768280
Didn't realize he wasn't quoting OP.

[Anonymous No.768290]

Canada is fucked

>massive housing bubble
>hard to get a decent job that's not part time minimum wage
>need a masters degree for a $11/h lab job
>3:1 engineer to engineer job ratio
>300k immigrants a year with no economic growth
>giant monopolies everywhere
>rampant food and housing inflation the government ignores

Escape to America while it's still possible

[Anonymous No.768321]

>>768290
>Escape to America while it's still possible

At this point its about the only option. I mean, when you compare some of the shit they have there that we don't its stupid.

My friend in the US pays roughly the same amount as I do for internet, after converting currency, and has 125x the speed I do. Its fucking insane.

[Anonymous No.768330]

>>768280
The thing is the US is very spread out and had wildy varying levels of cost of living, things in canada feel very normalized across the country.
Alberta has cheaper gas, BC and QC have expensive gas but its not a huge shock either way
>>768290
well whats the gov gonna do about the housing ?

Housing market is like a run away train at this point..
You can either derail it yourself or wait until it runs off the tracks, either way there will be a crash.

Things are so crazy in Toronto area that developers will buy up an older [still very good and nice home] on a large lot and then demolish it and plop down two semi's on it.

[Anonymous No.768332]

>>767718
Is Canada backing in addition to forcing banks to lend money in amounts too large to pay back to people don't even make the income to borrow 25% of what they are told to borrow? The US is doing that.

That's all housing bubbles are. If banks had to actually evaluate and scrutinize borrowers, there would be few buyers, lower demand and lower prices.

[Anonymous No.768334]

>>768332
and I'm meaning to say, war or not, this practice will continue.

[Anonymous No.768388]

>>767718
If youre a wage slave, even a highly salaried one of course youd think its fucked up. Start working for yourself you dumb plebs, it took me 4 years to realize it and save starting capital, but now Im doing great. I sell stuff on amazon and make more than I made as a systems analyst.

[Anonymous No.768453]

>>768332
>Is Canada backing in addition to forcing banks to lend money in amounts too large to pay back to people don't even make the income to borrow 25% of what they are told to borrow?

[Anonymous No.768468]

>>768332
>If banks had to actually evaluate and scrutinize borrowers, there would be few buyers, lower demand and lower prices.

Canadian banks are as far as I know lending out their own money, mortgages are not repackaged and sold off like the US did.
So they are careful, but greed is a powerful thing.

>If RBC doesn't give out that mortgage CIBC around the corner will

Plus remember in Canada mortgages and their interest rates get renewed every few years.
Todays buyers at 2.XX% might have to renew at 4/5% down the road.

its crazy to think that these analyst that say the market is overvalued also work for the same banks that lend out this money.

If the market does tank, I don't think there will be a lot of defaults. I think what will happen is people will realize that they don't need a 3000 square foot house for themselves and invite relatives to live with them and split the bills in order to save the house.
They already borrowed money from relatives to afford the home, I think they will be bailed out again anyways

>so many people rent out their basements for extra cash already

[Anonymous No.768804]

>>767718
For 2m dollars i could fly into my bometown down in florida and flip homes maybe a hour or more away from several rivers and beaches. Hell i could do the same here in west virginia

[Anonymous No.768861]

>>768468
>Plus remember in Canada mortgages and their interest rates get renewed every few years.
>Todays buyers at 2.XX% might have to renew at 4/5% down the road.

This is the only reason that I locked in for 10 years.

I'm also pretty sure you are correct in that mortgages etc aren't tossed in the same bucket and loaned out again.
>>768804
>flipping cheap mansions in Florida
>nobody has ever thought of doing this

[Anonymous No.768873]

>>768861

You don't even have to pick mansions.

You can find subdivisions with 5- sometimes 10+ homes for sale per division that're selling for maybe 160k because people are so worn down by seeing their home depressiate by tens of thousands over the past 6 or so years.

I can tell you now, not many people are actually doing it. (flipping homes)

Schools are being built into these subdivisions and shit. It's nuts.

Clearwater Shopping mall is fucking awesome.
Hell if it weren't for the general cost of living and sweltering heat I cannot seem to get used to. I might actually say I miss the damn place.

[Anonymous No.768874]

>>768873

>depressiate
Er, Depreciate.

[Anonymous No.768883]

>>768873
I just remember how fucking ridiculously low the price of some of those huge homes were when we were down there a couple years back and figured people would be all over it.

I remember seeing like seven bedroom mansions selling for ~$180 and thinking holy shit, why do I live up in the snowy fuckin north? But you're right, fuck that sweltering heat when it comes to living there, but I figured people would have started to try and flip those long ago.

[Anonymous No.768896]

>>768883

Florida feels like you just asked a Triathlon runner, to come drop his sweat nutsac on your fucking forehead.

It's so goddamn humid.

My old lady's uncle spent something like 230k on his home, think he ended up with 6 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, and a 2 car garage. Along with a decent sized driveway you could fit another 4 cars on if need be.

Damned thing is worth like 160k last I checked. He hasn't abused it, it's been kept in good order. Hell he's only improved on it.
Not to mention the poor bastard pays like 3600 in tax on it. every six months or some nonesense.

I left because I couldn't manage to find even baseline work as a young brown man. Even with trained security licensing. 13% unemployment rate. Fuck that noise.

[Anonymous No.768900]

>>768896
>Not to mention the poor bastard pays like 3600 in tax on it. every six months or some nonesense.
That's fucking absurd.

It would suck to see your house value depreciate, but I think it would be awesome to live in a giant house with easily affordable mortgage payments. Your mortgages in the US are boss. They suck up here in Canuckland.

>I left because I couldn't manage to find even baseline work as a young brown man. Even with trained security licensing. 13% unemployment rate. Fuck that noise.
I can see that. I work in HVAC so something makes me think I'd be able to find steady employment down there in swampass county.

[Anonymous No.768904]

>>768468
It happened in Halifax and so all the houses were converted to duplexes to rent to rich students

[Anonymous No.768905]

>>768900

What chaps my ass is just how -hard- it is to fine an inroad on employment for things like skilled trade and such.

I might as well been a blind-man wandering in one of those crazy ass sound-proofing rooms.
And yeah, you're right. You would find good work down there with HVAC.

This shit as all after I'd tried to join the military in my late teens, first it was I couldn't get a parent to sign off for me, then it was they wanted brown men with 22+ college credits. Then I couldn't get into college because my po-town mother refused to sign off on my application for federal aid.

Mortage payments are retard cheap in comparison to monthly rent.
Houses down south, and here nearby in Raleigh, NC can rent out for 1,300+ USD. But if you can get a mortgage, it'd drop down to like 400$ with say even 10-15k down on the home.

Buddy of mines is paying 600$ a month on mortgage for a 110k home up in Minnesota. That's like 300 and some change less he was paying for rent.

[Anonymous No.768918]

>>768905
Getting into trades is tough, you're right. For a young man, I always recommend just calling local shops up and saying "listen, I'm willing to bust my ass, work hard and ask shitpiles of questions. I don't need any promises about the future, I just want to work hard" and see what they say.
Lots of places need helping hands but have a hard time getting the right sort of people.

For mortgages up here, 2.6% is pretty good, but that's on a 5-year term. Meaning, after 5 years, you have to renegotiate, so if the rates have gone up, you're not getting that rate again.
So on a 25 year mortgage, some people actually renegotiate four times after the initial signing, it's kind of fucked up.

On a 10 year term like mine, which is the longest you can get usually, rates are in the high 3's, closing in on 4%.
If you're willing to take on a variable rate that fluctuates with the market, you can get down around 2% right now. Pretty cheap.

But yeah, it seems your area is similar. Renting an entire house, in my opinion, has always been more than what the mortgage payment would be, otherwise why would the owner bother renting it out?

[Anonymous No.768941]

>>768905

Emancipate yourself

[Anonymous No.768942]

test

[Anonymous No.768948]

>>768941

All of that is years gone by anon. What's done is done.

I just turned 28, my sons starting school after we get back from a road trip, hopefully I'll be able to start working again. Sitting at home all day has fucking drove me batshit.

[Anonymous No.768995]

>>768948
You've still got time to get your foot in the door in a trade bro. You can get ticketed in five years once you have an apprenticeship.

[Anonymous No.769093]

>>768918
>But yeah, it seems your area is similar. Renting an entire house, in my opinion, has always been more than what the mortgage payment would be, otherwise why would the owner bother renting it out?

I thought about buying to rent but I worked out the numbers and it made no sense.

In the area 2 bedrooms were going for between $900-1100/month for rent

But If I buy.. I would be looking at a $650-750 mortgage PLUS maintenance fees of $400-600 and I still didn't even get to my property taxes which is about $150-200.. so it just made little sense for me to buy to rent out.

and then of course there is a tsunami of basement apartments being listed everywhere that are $550-650 and can be very nice and usually includes many utils.

[Anonymous No.769094]

>>768948
jesus it's weird to me to think that some 28 year olds have kids going into kindergarten

[Anonymous No.769110]

>>769093

>$600 per month for maintenance

what?

[Anonymous No.769115]

>>769094

Mines was a proper oopsie, I took a steel toed boot to the johnson as a 5 year old, shit left me by a doctors understanding "medically sterile"

About a year or two after my old lady stopped taking birth control, she ended up pregnant. Mind you we'd been practicing throughout.

Eventually she showed me the damnd obnoxious stick "PREGNANT! PREGNANT!"

Fucking birth control tests.

It's fine by me, what sucked was the increasingly difficult employment prospects. Now I'll have to figure out how to get back into the American Work Force nearing my 30s and no real proper backround other then some odd jobs. One being in Satellite TV Installation. (Enjoyed the fuck out of that for some reason)

[Anonymous No.769158]

>>769115
>sterile
>wife gets pregnant

Well cuck'd my friend

[Anonymous No.769176]

>>769158
This

[Anonymous No.769179]

>>769115
Dude, demand a DNA test.

[Anonymous No.769182]

>>769179

I did. He's my son.

Apparently the medical professions word isn't as reliable as it once was.

[Anonymous No.769187]

>>769182
Whew. I was worried you mighta got cucked there bud.

[Anonymous No.769189]

>>767718

mfw when my house in richmond hill went from 500k in 2003 to 1.6 mil now.

Condos are a really good long term investment right now since there's dozens of them going up all along young street. Buy an unfinished one now and I promise that you can at least make a 30% profit if you sell 5 years after it's finished.

[Anonymous No.769190]

>>769189

>actually telling people to buy real estate near Toronto in 2015

lmaooo

[Anonymous No.769191]

>>769182
Doctors usually don't diagnose with 100% probability (false positives), but they'll still tell you to go under the knife to cover their own ass. Besides in such areas as sterility, one of those little guys that managed to be mobile is really all that matters.

[Anonymous No.769192]

>>769191

That's what I figure happened. Just luck of the draw.

[Anonymous No.769196]

>>768290
>3:1 engineering job ratio

depends on location and type of engineering

>what is alberta

inb4 "b-b-but i want to live in toronto". QQ tell it someone who can't afford the new cost of living in the gta. Learn to compete or move to ajax scrub.

[Anonymous No.769201]

>>769189
listening to the bubble-burst naysayers.

You sound like my friends that said it was a bad idea to buy homes in San Francisco back in 2010.

[Anonymous No.769202]

>>769190
listening to the bubble-burst naysayers.

You sound like my friends that said it was a bad idea to buy homes in San Francisco back in 2010.

[Anonymous No.769203]

>>769201

>completely ignore past experience when making decisions based on the future!

[Anonymous No.769205]

>>769202
>>769203

Obviously the post one number after yours is for you.

[Anonymous No.769212]

low interest rates
Provincial greenbelt legislation blocking alot of newer housing development
unchecked immigration who all want to come to the GTA

[Anonymous No.769220]

>>769203
>>769205

Why would the toronto housing market even come close to collapsing in the next 5-10 years? Toronto and the GTA has one the best rates of development I'v ever seen in North America and I work in construction. Housing buble is just a buzzword people are throwing around now because the US crash is still fresh in peoples mind. US =/ Toronto. The bubble in the US burst because banks were creating artificial demand for better housing by giving away loans to people who couldn't afford them. Canadian banks are waaaaay more stingy when it comes to mortgages and the the rise in property value around the gta is purely due to a real increase in demand by people who can actually afford it wanting to move to the area. Obviously you'll have a hard time selling now because the rate of condos and subdivisions going up is outpacing demand but that's why its still a great time to buy. Demand will catch up to supply given a 5-10 years. Why? Because it's Toronto. The only people moving out of the GTA right now are the older generations that can't afford the new costs, and they quickly get replaced by families that can.

Do you realize how many rich immigrants are moving to the suburbs here and paying for houses with straight up cash? It's fucking outrageous.

[Anonymous No.769232]

>>768272
its from foreign investment.

our house was bought in 2010 at 710k now it is 1.3mil

a lot of chinese with their 800k investments into the government then when they come they need a home, they have great credit and rich people love leverage so they purchase more than one home with the banks money. Also russians and persians. Canada is a safer place for your money than those places (russia, china, middle east).

Another probable cause are real estate agents who work together, bump up the prices with sales technique, encourage bidding wars (they know how much you can pay since you have to tell them the mortgage the bank qualified you for). They also do speculation too, not only encourage their client to buy more.

Imho, it is not a bubble. Toronto is a big city with 2.5 mil people and 7 mil in the GTA. Net increase each year in population is around +100k ppl. With increasing population and new money into economy = raised real estate prices.

Canadian banks are also making a killing from expanding during the recessions. RBC with record earnings. Again, it is not a bubble, just Canada decided to import a lot of rich ppl.

[Anonymous No.769245]

>>769232
This guy. This guy fucking gets it.

[Anonymous No.769247]

>>769220
The single only reason that the housing market in Toronto is so ridiculously inflated is due to the rock bottom interest rates.

When the drop in the value of our dollar begins to have an effect on that, have fun with your rates.

>because the US crash is still fresh in peoples mind.

>the 80's and 90's never happened!

[Anonymous No.769249]

>>769232
>Imho, it is not a bubble. Toronto is a big city with 2.5 mil people and 7 mil in the GTA. Net increase each year in population is around +100k ppl. With increasing population and new money into economy = raised real estate prices.
The only reason this is possible is due to the rock bottom interest rates.

[Anonymous No.769257]

>>769247

>Basing decisions on a comparison between 1991 Canadian economy and now

Because recessions last forever, right anon? The market never bounces back, especially one that's as unstable as Canada's.

I bet you also thought that apple was just going to be a fad.

[Anonymous No.769274]

>>769257


>everyone is just afraid of what happened in the US!
>Oh yeah? Same thing happened in Canada in the 80's, as well as the 90's.

>yeah well you're just living in the past!

[Anonymous No.769296]

>>769274

You're not living in the past, you're just parroting mainstream media and comparing two entirely different market conditions and expecting the same outcome. That's stupid. IF you were trying to argue that there is the possibility of a market correction with a soft landing in the near future, followed by some good points to back it up that claim, then we could discuss something but you're not even doing that.

> History gonna repeat itself!
> Why?
> It just is!

Wow, you sure know how to convince people.
Be honest, did you panic and and liquidate your investments in 2010? You sound like the type of chump that would do that.

[Anonymous No.769466]

>>769257
>I bet you also thought that apple was just going to be a fad.
>>769296
>Be honest, did you panic and and liquidate your investments in 2010? You sound like the type of chump that would do that

YEAH WELL

I BET YOU DRINK PEE!

[Anonymous No.769501]

>>769296
>IF you were trying to argue that there is the possibility of a market correction with a soft landing in the near future, followed by some good points to back it up that claim, then we could discuss something but you're not even doing that.

It's simple.

Rates are as low as they've ever been. Houses are as expensive as they've ever been.

As a result, people think that they can afford houses (because right at this very point in time, they can, due to rock bottom rates) when a jump in interest (not even a jump to crazy levels, just a bump back to what was common a few years ago) would cause them to be unable to pay for those houses. People are buying houses that they can't really afford in the long term, due to Canada's mortgage structure.
It's not like the States where you can lock in for 25 years. The vast, vast majority of people with extremely expensive Toronto/Vancouver houses have five year terms. That's a pretty volatile situation, to have the lowest interest rates ever as well as the most expensive houses ever, and the majority of the people have locked in for five years.

Home sales rose by 10%, home costs rose by 10% or more, while the value of the dollar dropped by 15%. I would like you to explain why exactly you think that people taking out gigantic loans on extremely low interest on the most expensive home prices to date immediately after the dollar plummeted could possibly be GOOD for the future of the housing market.

[Anonymous No.769512]

>>768883
1) Cooling a house that size is a small fortune
2) No one had any money back then

What's supposed to happen is the bubble bursts and the prices drop and then everyone spends some time saving and then they start buying houses again and the economy starts to recover. This is the one legit, "Thanks, Obama." He should have bailed out homeowners and not the banks.

[Anonymous No.769520]

>>769512
>1) Cooling a house that size is a small fortune

I know, I work in HVAC. I know exactly what it costs and how hard it is to do.

In my short vacations to Florida, I've noticed that the vast majority of houses run off of a single shitty ass inefficient condensing unit, the houses are hardly insulated at all, have huge windows facing south east, etc etc etc. It's almost sort of like nobody gives a fuck about a/c down there.

Which, funnily enough, also occurred to me when our hot tub heater (an outdoor heat pump) broke when we were down there, and I could get it to come on intermittently but then it would quit. I was pretty sure I knew what was wrong, and replacing a small part likely would have done it. We put the call in, and when we got back from Disney or wherever the fuck, there was a brand new heat pump sitting there.
I just thought to myself "huh, whoever owns this house just got fuckin bent"

[Anonymous No.769524]

>>769512
>What's supposed to happen is the bubble bursts
oh, and

THAT CANT HAPPEN

TORONTO STRONK

[Anonymous No.769595]

>>769501
Is the entire province making minimum payments or something? Why would a short term increase on interest cause mass foreclosures? Do you even know how a mortgage works? Either lower your monthly payment to what you can afford or talk to the bank and they will just be chill with you paying the interest until the market settles (which will not take more than a couple of years if shit even hits the fan like you think it will, which it won't). 250,000 immigrants a year pretty much guarantees that the housing market wont go nuclear and the government knows this, but clearly you don't. As long as you can hold a steady job, you'll be able to make your payments and keep your house even in the worst case scenario. Construction is stronk, which means economy is stronk, which means most jobs aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.769604]

>>769501

you make it sound like RBC and CIBC were giving away mortgages like Candy. Even now it's still a fucking bitch to get a solid mortgage out of em. Unlike the states, our banks are a bit more careful with their money, I don't think you're giving them enough credit (ayyy lmao).

[Anonymous No.769611]

>>769604
They are handing them out like candy. My wife and I were offered a 1.2 million dollar mortgage even though we only make a combined 110k

[Anonymous No.769624]

>>769611
If you had no other loans and were debt free with a good credit score and relatively low expenses, that seems pretty fair. I don't know why you're freaking out..

[Anonymous No.769837]

test

[Anonymous No.769839]

>>769595
>>769604

I don't think you have a clue about what you're talking about.

Mortages are indeed being handed out like candy right now. Rates are at an all time low and pretty much every bank is blowing their quarterly estimate away.

>Even now it's still a fucking bitch to get a solid mortgage out of em
You are retarded if you believe that dude. It's ridiculous what they will approve people for. They are approving people for mortgages that literally become impossible to afford if the rates jump a bit.

>>769611
>My wife and I were offered a 1.2 million dollar mortgage even though we only make a combined 110k

For example, this guy. A combined 110k income:
>70k/yr = $4300/mth take home pay
>40k/yr=$2600/mth take home pay
So he's taking home just shy of $7k per month.

A five year year fixed at 2.7% is a $4600/month mortgage payment.
>Groceries: $500/mth
>Property tax + house + life insurance = $250/mth
>Heat and hydro: $250/mth
>Internet + phone + tv: $200/mth
>Car insurance: $250/mth (for two people, assuming both drive)

This is assuming you aren't making payments on ANYTHING else. This guy would be on the hook for $6050/mth, assuming no extra payments and not including miscellaneous costs like gasoline and shit, when he's taking home $6900. That's fucking absurd. Minimum monthly costs that equal nearly 90% of his take home pay. Come the fuck on
>>769624
>that seems pretty fair
lmao

If the rates jumped by 2%, this guy's mortgage payment becomes $5650. He would literally be unable to afford it. People are doing this type of shit in Toronto and Vancouver every day, being approved and buying into mortgages that they can just barely afford with the rates at a historic low.

[Anonymous No.769860]

>>768138

The only way you can get a 4br 5bath house for 30k is if you live in one of the nigger self-destruction cities. Detroit, Memphis, East St. Louis. Soon to be Chicago.

I wouldn't take that house for free to live in the first 4 cities.

And probably not even soon to be bankrupt chicago, aka Detroit West.

[Anonymous No.770210]

>>769839

Now I think you're just financially retarded.

All you've done is shown that this couple is capable of making their monthly payments which is all the banks care about. If they have no other outstanding debt and good credit then that makes them low risk for the bank. Why would the bank say "you've shown me that you can handle this loan but i won't give it to you" or "you might be able to afford it now, but who knows what could happen to the market in a few years, so we won't give it to you now"? I didnt say it would be the best decision to take out the full 1.2mil, that's up to anon to take on the risk but he can obviously take something less and still get a decent house. Why are you taking the absolute worst case scenario and applying it every household in the gta, assuming they are as senseless as you to take out such high mortgages with relatively low cash flow?

And again, you can change the amortization if rates change, or just pay off the interest alone until things settle or worst case scenario sell the house if everything starts going south. Odds are you'll have some time to sell given a 5 year fix before new rates kick in. And again, this is all the worst case scenario that doesn't apply to most people, because they aren't morons that buy beyond their means (at least in the gta). My parents household income was 200k when they bought a place in richmond hill for 500k, and this was a 3 bedroom, 4 bathroom luxury house. How many people would actually go for a 1.2 million loan on 110k income?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cmhc-mortgage-holders-spend-26-of-income-on-housing-1.3092859

"The gross debt service ratio for Canadian homeowners – the percentage of housing costs to gross monthly income – sits at 26 per cent for the three months ended March 31."

Whaaat, you mean Canadians actually know how to manage their finances? Guess you could learn something.

[Anonymous No.770217]

>>770210
I linked to an article about a not so uncommon scenario

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/house-poor-couple-debt/article24370722/

>Mr. Bhardwaj’s entire paycheque – he earns $73,000 a year – goes toward the mortgage payments
>Mrs. Bhardwaj’s salary of $55,000 covers everything else, from utilities, groceries, and gas and insurance on their cars, to the interest on their two lines of credit and credit card.


>In order to meet the bank’s requirements, the Bhardwajs borrowed $80,000 from family to pay down debt (which they have since repaid) and added her father – who has a pension – to the house title.

[Anonymous No.770261]

>>770217

>2 lines of credit
>2 cars
>Borrowing 80k from family for the down payment
> Unexpected baby that they want to keep
>> Forcing wife (current lifeline) to take unnecessary mat leave
> Household income now 73k
> Buying a 4 bedroom, 5.5 bathroom house for 2 people in Mississauga
>>>Muh granite countertops
> Being this irresponsible with money

Look kids, it's a greedy pig that doesn't know how to spend an income! Learn from him so that you don't become him.

The funny thing is that he'll probably manage to stay afloat long enough to stabilize his shit thanks to family safety nets (Jesus, having to dip into your own fathers pension).

[Anonymous No.770284]

Somewhat related...
crackshackormansion.com
So worth the time...

[Anonymous No.770310]

>>770210
>How many people would actually go for a 1.2 million loan on 110k income?
Your original point was that stupid mortgages aren't being handed out like crazy.
>Why are you taking the absolute worst case scenario and applying it every household in the gta, assuming they are as senseless as you to take out such high mortgages with relatively low cash flow?
Now your point is "not everyone is retarded enough to take out the huge mortgage the banks are handing out like candy"? Congratulations, I have never seen somebody backpeddal so hard in my entire life. You literally got BTFO when you tried to argue that banks aren't handing out mortgages that people won't be able to afford, and now you're saying that people simply aren't accepting them, even though the 10% rise in housing prices and 10% rise in total sales without the median wage going up, not long after the dollar dropped 15%, proves you outright fucking wrong.

>Whaaat, you mean Canadians actually know how to manage their finances?
You are honestly so fucking deluded that it hurts. You want to know why they are able to manage their loans right now? Because the rates are lower than they've ever been dude. I've told you this like six times but you just ignore the significance of it, so I'm just going to stop replying to you. Go ahead and continue being a fuckin idiot lol

>assuming they are as senseless as you to take out such high mortgages
>Guess you could learn something.
My monthly mortgage payment is $977 and my take home monthly pay is $6400. I double my mortgage payment each month because I can and last year I put a lump sum of 10% of what I owed down at the start of the year, which is the maximum my mortgage allows. Keep telling yourself whatever you want to believe though, friend.

[Anonymous No.770335]

Don't know if you've seen this blog before, OP:

greaterfool.ca

Very applicable to this thread

[Anonymous No.770341]

>>768101
Do these houses ever sell?

[Anonymous No.770368]

>>768905
Dont forget prop tax, mortgage insurance, and home insurance

[Anonymous No.770372]

Just bought a modern condo in downtown/midtown nashville

1650 sq ft

395k

Its a red hot market, and the last owners rented it out for 2850 a month

[Anonymous No.770419]

American here. Is it this bad all over Canada? I was looking at Montreal and I found one that offers "** Buy this condo AND WE WILL FIND YOU A TENANT FOR FREE!**" with "INVESTOR'S DREAM DEAL" written all over it. They're blatantly aware that there is a bubble and they're trying to shill it off to some Chinese dude who doesn't know any better before it pops.

http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/reb/5043206420.html

[Anonymous No.770484]

>>770310
I never classified 1.2mil as a "stupid" mortgage you dumb gook, it's a completely normal mortgage to be given out for a household of 110k, that wasn't a special case you discovered. People can afford it, you clearly showed that. but it's dangerous to be living so close to the edge. which is why most people don' t do it as stated on that article i posted. Jesus christ man, you've been poor for so long that it's actually impossible for you to see past this poorman mentality that a change in rates doesn't impact nearly as many people as you think it will in toronto. It's okay that you missed out anon, maybe your kids wont be as autistic and salty as you :(

> ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME, HUE HUE, THEY'LL SEE. THEN ILL BE THE ONE LAUGHING

>pic related

[Anonymous No.770509]

>>770419
Nah man, it's not that bad once you get outside of large cities. Large city prices are driven up by idiots like >>770210

Where I live, a 2000 sq ft house in a nice area of town sells for about $350k. You can get decent smaller starter homes for $200k.

>They're blatantly aware
Anyone with half a brain is. There are absolute shit tier houses in Toronto that are still managing to sell for over a million dollars, it's crazy.

>>770335
I hadn't seen that, it's interesting. Thanks bud

[Anonymous No.770515]

>>770484
Seeing someone try this hard and fail so badly is sad.

I wish your brain was more proficient, friend. I truly do. If I could push a button and make it so, I can say with sincerity that I would bush it without hesitation.

[Anonymous No.770521]

>>770419

>montreal
>Mcgill University
>Not trying to cash in rich whiteboi's going to school there and charging 1k+ rent
>Not realizing that montreal housing is a reflection of rising demand to live there due to recent rapid rise in development, just like toronto

Guys, new york city was just bubble amaright?

[Anonymous No.770526]

>>770515
So much for not replying.
You'll be okay anon, and we can all learn from your mistakes.

[Anonymous No.770534]

>>770526
>So much for not replying.

No idea what you're talkin about bud lol

[Anonymous No.770547]

>>770534

>>770310
>I'm just going to stop replying to you.

>>770210
>>770484
>>770521
>>770526

> desktop vs phone

But really tho anon, are you actually retarded? How did can you not infer that in your own fucking thread?

[Anonymous No.770550]

>>770547
It's like I really am controlling your brain lol

>b-b-ut I'm not two people I swaer!!!

[Anonymous No.770557]

>>770550
Maybe it really is time to stop posting OP. I hope you got your question on war and the housing market answered lol.

[Anonymous No.770568]

>>770557
lmao this guy is literally a parody of himself its awesome

I'm having a time here bud. You are entertaining as fuck

[Anonymous No.770694]

>>767776
>$185k here
>where I live that would be about $270k
where do you live guys?

[Anonymous No.771482]

Polite bump

[Anonymous No.771536]

Welp that was an enjoyable read, legit can't tell if op was trolling all along or just stupid. Either way it's epic.

[Anonymous No.771546]

>>768187
In Cali you can get that for 40-65k with less than an hour commute to the capital or major city.

[Anonymous No.771549]

>>768290
Sounds really bad. The more I learn sbout other countries the happier I am about living in America.

[Anonymous No.771603]

>>769110

Apartments have maintenance fee's. Depending on the quality of the building, square footage of your apartment and stuff like that you can pay maintenance fee's as low as $100-$200 (usually small bachelor units or tiny one bedrooms) all the way up to a few thousands (per month) if you have a very large penthouse.

I live in Vancouver in a 700 square foot apartment, which is fairly new and located in a good area. Monthly fee's are about $320 but I have some family members who live in a much larger (like 3 times the size of mine), higher end condo and they pay something like $1400 a month. The view is worth it though.

[Anonymous No.772207]

>>771536
lmao i know its you bud

[Anonymous No.772237]

>>769604
I have some anecdotal evidence for that..

I was cold called by one of my banks about some BS savings account and a mortgage
my other bank offered me a LOC secured with my car

>no thanks
I have never shown any interest in a mortgage or a new line of credit


>there are nearly as many realtors as there are construction workers in Canada

[Anonymous No.772521]

>>772237
Yeah man. They are, 100%, giving out huge mortgages like candy right now.

[Anonymous No.772750]

I have a better question. How do I generate the housing market crash so that I can buy a house in Toronto at a fair price & fuck over the housing jews?

[Anonymous No.772756]

>>768101
That house doesnt seem too ridiculous. I live in a house less than twice the size of that with 5 people living in it and my parents got it for a little over 200,000.

[Anonymous No.772757]

>>772756
Oh, yea meant to mention i live in metro-atlanta if it matters

[Anonymous No.772774]

>>767718
I think the housing market would explode

[Anonymous No.772777]

>>768290
You fool, there's nowhere to escape to!

Except for Switzerland that is, if they let you in.

[Anonymous No.772937]

>>768280

everyone knows the option exists to give up on life and move to Kentucky

[Anonymous No.772946]

>>768332

They are also suffering from the fact that Canadian real estate is an easy place for rich chinks to stick money. This decouples the housing market from the labor market.

[Anonymous No.772949]

>>772946
That also drives prices up and forces people to spend more than they should have on housing, especially in the right area.

Toronto is fucked, if you can't afford a house in a certain area, you might be looking at an hour long+ commute every morning.

[Anonymous No.772952]

>>768896

South Florida has a nice seabreeze. The rest of Florida is swamp ridden hell-hole. That is why it is cheap.

[Anonymous No.772954]

>>769232

this. Its cucking all the international level American cities well.

[Anonymous No.772966]

>>767718
It's starting to get really bad in the GTA. My dad is a real estate agent, owns several rental properties, has been with TD for 20+ years and never had any problems. They refused to give us a mortgage on our new house and said they wouldn't be updating some of our existing mortgages. My dad went to a credit union and then got the mortgage, shit talked TD and then TD finally said they would renew the mortgages.
It's getting so bad that even people with a proven track record, my dad including many of his real estate friends cannot get mortgages now. It's coming down to the point where you have no choice but to rent from the rich fucks who can afford to buy the properties otherwise you won't be able to buy shit.

[Anonymous No.773043]

>>772966
Why would they refuse to renew a mortgage when the rates right now would certainly be way lower than the rates he was previously paying?
That makes no sense

[Anonymous No.773051]

>>773043
They're being more strict on what they'll allow. They are starting to only focus on what your income from your profession is and less on where other "non-consistent" forms of income come from. Most my my dad's income comes from his rental properties but they refuse to look at that now and only look at his real estate income from selling homes. A lot of his real estate friends just manage their properties and make a shit ton of money just by renting it out but they assume you won't be able to pay for new property purchases mortgages because everyone will not pay their rent and you'll have no income. It's just stupid reasoning like that which is prompting more people to seek mortgages outside of banks. Even with 20+ years proven track record of never missing mortgage payments they're starting to limit what they allow.

[Anonymous No.773057]

>>769115
Check to see if its yours dude.

[Anonymous No.773059]

>>773051
>They're being more strict on what they'll allow.

Not from what I've seen. I would argue the opposite, actually.
I don't know what is up with your dad's approval but it sounds really fishy to me. I can't see why a bank wouldn't take rental money into consideration. Of course there is a risk associated with people just not paying you, but that's true of nearly every profession.
If I was a carpenter, there's still a risk of my customers just refusing to pay for the work I did.

I think there's more to that story than you know. It makes no sense at all, renewing an existing mortgage right now should be easier than it ever has been in history. Depending on how long his term was, it's possible that his renewed mortgage payment could have nearly half of what it was before.

[Anonymous No.773535]

>>768103

There's actually no convenience to living in Toronto.

That's the dark deep secret around here.

There is not ONE benefit to living in the GTA, unless you work downtown.

[Anonymous No.773537]

>>768272
>Meanwhile wages have been stagnant for ~15 years, so where is this extra money coming from to afford these homes ?

That's my fundamental analysis of the situation as well. Wages and incomes simply DO NOT support the housing prices in the GTA, so these prices are not sustainable unless the government is going to allow ALL of the foreign sleaze, drug dealers, traffickers, embezzlers invest their money into the Toronto housing market and get away with what is effectively laundering money from all over the world.

[Anonymous No.773539]

>>768103

Yeah I was thinking this too...

> cold as fuck 75% of the year
no thanks.

I could get a mansion in Texas for that kind of money and live the based Texas life.

Hell you could get a decent house in Cali for that.

[Anonymous No.773540]

>>773535
A buddy of mine claims that he loves Toronto.

I tell him he's a fucking liar every time

[Anonymous No.773545]

>>769094

Yeah, I'm 29 and just about to finish my 7-year university degree, lel.

[Anonymous No.773548]

>>769189

>Increasing supply of condos

>Buy in anon!

>Demographic trends will reduce the demand for condos, while the supply keeps going up

The condo market will be the first to initiate the epic crash.

I'll pick up your condos from the bank that owns your mortgages, once you foreclose. I'm saving cash just for that opportunity.

[Anonymous No.773558]

>>773540

The only reason you might want to live in the city is of the vibrant homosexual scene, probably the second most AIDS-infested town after San Francisco.

Other than that, life in Toronto is a miserable grind. NOTHING works correctly, driving downtown is nearly impossible and drains you of 1/3 of your life and 1/2 of your energy.

Why are people taking on 1.5 MILLION dollar mortgages? For the privilege of what?

Being accosted by the homeless that infest the streets? Have your kids grow up in a claustrophobic concrete jungle? Spending 3 hours of your day sitting in traffic? Access to super markets? Hipsters? Better schooling? Heck no.

Life in the smaller towns is so much better. And Whiter.

I'm thinking of buying a co-op apartment here in the city, just so I'm not wasting money renting for the next 2 years as I finish school, but the moment I'm ready to put down some coin, my dollars are much better spent buying a nice home with a good size plot of land somewhere near Rockwood (40 mins drive from Toronto) or Kingston etc.

[Anonymous No.773858]

>>773558
Kingston is nice man. I've been there a bunch of times, it seems like a great place to live.

[Anonymous No.774072]

>>773548
>I'll pick up your condos from the bank that owns your mortgages, once you foreclose.
I hate the idea of owning multiple properties. If I got rich from it, maybe.

[Anonymous No.774089]

>>767718
>pic related, it's what over 2mil gets you in Toronto

Its a bubble waiting to happen. You get a much nicer home in California for $2 million. I hear Toronto is nice but not two mill for that little house nice.

[Anonymous No.774091]

>>774089
Also Montreal which supposed to be a better city is way cheaper. Its also next door and justbas cold.

[Anonymous No.774102]

>>773548

If he was smart he wouldn't take out a mortgage on property that's purely an investment. You buy it upfront or you don't buy at all.

[Anonymous No.774106]

>>773548
>Implying you take out a mortgage on property that is purely meant to be an investment

You buy upfront or you don't buy at all. It's like you don't even real-estate bro

[Anonymous No.774123]

>>774089
>I hear Toronto is nice

So you're asian eh?

[Anonymous No.774130]

>>774123
>youre Asian
No actually Im not.

[Anonymous No.774131]

>>774130

Ahh, so you're east indian then eh?

[Anonymous No.774155]

>>774131
No m8 Im not

[Anonymous No.774159]

>>774155
well who in the fuck told you that toronto was nice then bud

[Anonymous No.774210]

>>774159
Which part of Kingston though anon, Princess street? Where is that again?

>mfw its downtown,
>mfw when its expensive as fuck to live near princess st.
>mfw anything north of princess st is a giant shithole.

[Anonymous No.774291]

>>774106

>I borrow from the Bank of Mom&Dad!

[Anonymous No.774428]

>>774210

>quote a post about Toronto

>talk about Kingston

[Anonymous No.774516]

>>774291

Mfw this thread just turned into an echo chamber of poor hicks telling each other how sweet it is to live in the middle of buttfuck nowhere.

[Anonymous No.774568]

>>774516
>>774516
subtle, i like it

[Anonymous No.775500]

>>774516
>living in Toronto

[Anonymous No.775517]

>>773558
>is of the vibrant homosexual scene
is it really? remington's getting shut down (albeit it's been taken over by faghags), grindr is destroying all the bars on church. is there any actual gay culture anymore? literary, film, stage?

[Anonymous No.775523]

toronto is an ugly massive liberal shithole. Don't go there. It fucking sucks.

[Anonymous No.775972]

>>774516

Seems more like ONfags who recognize the incredibly low value of buying real estate in GTA right now, versus the Asians and Arabs whose parents are not savvy to understand investing beyond buying a piece of real estate for their cunt kids.

[Anonymous No.775987]

>>775517
>is there any actual gay culture anymore? literary, film, stage?

I went to one of those axe throwing places for a birthday party, and a buddy of mine and I went to a shoeless joe's for a bite before we went, and the waitress asked if we were going to the theatre.

So there must be SOME gay culture

[Anonymous No.775993]

>>775517

Well Toronto is no. 2 in terms of new HIV cases, so there must be a pretty active butt-fucking scene.

[Anonymous No.776330]

>>773535
that whole area of toronto seems like hell to me, so many brown people who smell like shit EVERYWHERE and neverending sprawl

[Anonymous No.776864]

The cyber attack on the US government is a red herring

China was actually infiltrating Canada's government in order to find out what the most optimal way to continue buying up property in big cities is

[Anonymous No.776878]

2m for that seems fair. living in a big city is not a right, if you cant afford it live elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.776881]

>>776878
you could build that house for $350,000.

How does that make sense to you lol

[Anonymous No.776895]

Welcome to Australia.

Absolute shit-tier house in a suburb literally 50km away from Sydney: 600k

[Anonymous No.776908]

>>776895
Sydney looks to be fairly comparable in geographical size to Toronto. 600k for that house 50km outside of city limits though? That's a bit fucked up.

[Anonymous No.776911]

>>768181
Nope Toronto is the Manhattan of Canada and it's wealthy Chinese people and TSX fags driving the housing market up just like kikes and walstreet fags did in New York.

[Anonymous No.776915]

>>768290
Brithish Columbia master race reporting in! The problem is that everybody want to live in the city and do faggy office jobs or work retail , when we know that our country's wealth comes from the ground and to make money like the big boys you must go close to the source, gold , copper ,coal , oil and gas is where it's at even the niggriest of the labourers here makes $25 dollars /hr+ and up in the bit you can still get lake front properties with acreage for practically nothing. So quit bitching that canada is fucked and go up and ding your wealth out of the ground

[Anonymous No.776916]

>>776915
>you must go close to the source, gold , copper ,coal , oil and gas is where it's at


>doesn't even mention gravel

Idiot

[Anonymous No.776933]

>>776916
>implying that we don't wash 65k cubic yards of gravel / month to separate gravel from gold , and while a gravel pit is a cute little business you can buy a million dollar house with a small bag of gold

[Anonymous No.776949]

>>776933
1-3 cubic yards of gravel around here is worth about $45.

So that 65k cubic yards would be worth $1-3M
Seems to me like you should be able to buy that million dollar house nearly every month.

[Anonymous No.776967]

>>767718
2M don't buy you taste that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.777251]

>>776967
Well, technically... yeah, it could

if your whole house didn't cost 2M

[Anonymous No.777270]

>>776915
>Faggy office jobs
>Natural resources

I mean, pick your poison but there's some good money to be made regardless.

All aboard the gravy train!

[Anonymous No.777314]

>>767718
Amerifag here. Why is the measurement in feet. Thought you syrup guzzlers used metric

[Anonymous No.777317]

>>767718
I'm thoroughly enjoying this as people were circle jerking how superior Canada wasn't stupid like the U.S. During its housing bubble. I will relish the collapse

[Anonymous No.777330]

>>777314
Nah man we use feet

>>777317
>people were circle jerking how superior Canada wasn't stupid like the U.S. During its housing bubble

Well the bubbles are for different reasons, and no, we aren't stupid like you were. We're stupid in a different way.

You guys lent out money that didn't exist and charged interest on it lol

[Anonymous No.777337]

>>777317
Not understanding the fundamentals of the housing markets and banking systems and how they're completely different.

[Anonymous No.777502]

>>777330
No. We wrote insurance...credit default swaps....on AAA tranches (according to Moody's an S&P...of actually subprime mortgage debt like a trucker who "bought" a $500,000 house in Dallas in 2006 on an approved liar loan.