/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.57277661]

It makes no fucking sense. Are these etf's all some kind of scam?

[Anonymous No.57277676]

If you're that impatient you are never going to make it

[Anonymous No.57277698]

>>57277676
I'm not impatient, I'm just scared that we're about to dump all the way back to $16k or lower because the only thing that people were hopeful about were the etf's. But if none of these inflows are actually contributing any buy volume to btc then what is there to be hopeful about anymore?

[Anonymous No.57277701]

>>57277661
Whales are selling on exchanges. Whales are dumping on permabull to the moon redditors and boomers who bought the ETF and are rebuying lower. Smart money is selling the news as usual. Also, nearly all technical indicators pointed towards this being a local top.

[Anonymous No.57277717]

>>57277701
a 15% drop in one day is a lot worse than just a "local top". It feels like nov 2021 or dec 2017 all over again.

[Anonymous No.57277757]

>>57277717
Not really unusual. Picrel is the July 2019 mid cycle top. A 25% drop in one day.

[Anonymous No.57277765]

>>57277661
Why the fuck would anyone think its a good idea to let the current economic regulators and players take bitcoin by the dick and fuck it.

Anyone who supported this is a faggot

The whole point of bitcoin was to replace the entire economic system on one ledger.

Congratu-fucking-lations you killed bitcoin

[Anonymous No.57277775]

It’s Coinbase. They bought up amounts expecting more volume, now that the volume is not hitting the targets they expected they are dumping excess coins.

[Anonymous No.57277784]

>>57277661
yes

[Anonymous No.57277788]

>>57277698
Hard fact: almost all of the value for BTC in recent years derives from its sole remaining utility as a speculative gambling asset, and that market used to have two big components: casino chips (USDT, no coincidence they named it to look similar to actual currency) and a house to handle the bets (CEXes like Binance).

The only people who got life changingly rich were those associated with either one of those two, as well as whichever lucky punter managed to win their bets and walk away with their winnings instead of losing it all again.

Unfortunately for you, the wheels of justice has mostly purged the system of several major casinos, and Tether despite printing billions a week is no longer able to prop up the price with the constant sell pressure into a liquid market of actual dollars that the ETF has opened the floodgates to. The only major buyer was Saylor and his MSTR stock has taken a major beating with ETFs rendering it irrelevant as a proxy for BTC investment, so he is not just tapped out but will soon be under pressure to sell.

Most people including the hardest core believers have either tapped out their investment or only able to put in pitifully small amounts of capital into the system. Meanwhile, miners and operators have bills to pay to keep the lights on, and have to sell hundreds of coins a day to do so.

Meanwhile deluded copium gets posted here and on Twitter, while the economic reality is: it was a high risk investment all along and all the shitty tricks used to prop up the price will soon collapse.

Due to our own greed, the bankers won. Again.

[Anonymous No.57277792]

>>57277775
No, they definitely aren't doing that. Did you just make this up?

[Anonymous No.57277813]

>>57277775
What do you think will happen on Tuesday (or next week Friday) when retail investors will be able to start putting their first paychecks into their IRAs with BTC ETFs?

[Anonymous No.57277814]

But the rumor, sell the news. Clockwork, but /biz/ is confused?

[Anonymous No.57277815]

>>57277788
>Hard fact: almost all of the value for BTC in recent years derives from...
...ransomware attacks that forced businesses to buy BTC to pay the attackers
the value drops as attackers launder their coins and cash out

[Anonymous No.57277831]

>>57277661
Bitcoin is hundreds of billions of dollars
This is just normal market for Bitcoin

[Anonymous No.57277846]

>>57277757
yes when they started locking down the world because of cough-19

[Anonymous No.57277858]

>>57277846
The July 2019 dip started before anyone even knew what covid was. Covid happened in like November earlist.

[Anonymous No.57277874]

>>57277846
>July 2019
>when they started lockdowns

are you literally retarded?

[Anonymous No.57277891]

>>57277661
Rehypothecation niggers, I tried to warn you.

[Anonymous No.57277913]

>>57277698
If you weren’t such a fomo homo, you’d realise that ‘regulatory clarity’ is always followed by a dump.

It has happened twice before with BTC, it’s always a fucken sell the news event.

Me and thousands of others knew this was gonna happen.

[Anonymous No.57277918]

Whatever you all do, don't google which stocks were shorted the most the day before 9/11 2001... whatever you all do, DO NOT, do it...

[Anonymous No.57277956]

>>57277661
>8 weeks of green candle without any pullback
>sell the news event

It's fucking obvious. $50k will never be breached before halving.

[Anonymous No.57278014]

>>57277717
More like January 2016 price action and I'm 100% cool with that.

Check for yourself why I'm particularly bullish on this price action:
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

[Anonymous No.57278100]

>>57277788
>Meanwhile, miners and operators have bills to pay to keep the lights on, and have to sell hundreds of coins a day to do so.

miners aren't the ones selling this time around.

>>57277815
Most ransomware attackers demand to be paid in monero, not bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.57279897]

>>57277891

This. The same Bitcoin has been sold to many people. That is why the price won't go up anymore.

[Anonymous No.57280151]

>>57277918
Which ones was it
ANSWER ME

[Anonymous No.57280172]

>>57277661
The etf approval will forever live in infamy as the day that btc got neutered by the hefgefunds/banks.

[Anonymous No.57280206]

>>57280172
this
no one will ever get rich off of less than 1 BTC again, wall street traders and tradfi will use etfs and futures to control btc.

[Anonymous No.57280935]

>>57278014
i see...

[Anonymous No.57280946]

Institutional investors are correcting the value.

It's gonna crater in a way that'll make the 2018 crash look like a blip.

[Anonymous No.57280987]

>>57277717
>15% drop in one day
?

[Anonymous No.57280996]

>>57277661
it makes perfect sense dude. the ETFs are highly liquid because they're cash-adjacent, and the USD is perfect liquidity.
going in-network to move BTC around is not even close to liquid. you have to pay the network to function.
even my credit cards are free.
you are paying a commission, you are not trading money, crypto is credit, and its worse than visa or mastercard

[Anonymous No.57281016]

>>57277913
Literally people were being smug when it didn't dump immediately. You could tell it was purely common sense there was going to be a correction

[Anonymous No.57281038]

>>57277698
>But if none of these inflows are actually contributing any buy volume to btc
of course they are! and to the same people who are selling EVEN MORE in real BTC in the network, getting the fuck out of that nonsense!
why would you pay coinbase to keep your wallet for you?
why would you suffer the security risk of maintaining your own wallet on your own phone?
at the same time, there is additional selling pressure because now there are huge permanent miner operations that must sell coins continuously to print revenue, and pay their power bills, thus hope for earnings. they have investors to hoodwink.
that's not how we did it ten years ago. we were using spare electricity, periodically, to deposit coins directly into our own wallets. mining was done in pools as a large co-operative effort of many individuals.
that was the point of it. now it's all turned on its head. which is why it's gonna fail. it won't have anything to do with the dollar price. BTC can go dark at $1 per coin or it can go dark at $10 million per coin.

[Anonymous No.57281048]

>>57277661
>who was actually selling?
Retail

[Anonymous No.57281067]

>>57277661
My guess is this is flows out of spot into the the etf.
>then shouldn't it balance out?
Eventually, I guess, but life isn't so instantaneous.
No surprises here, I honestly would do the same if there wasn't such a big tax hit tied to it. After this cycle I'm pretty sure I'll never hold spot again if these etfs track well. Why not enjoy the better security and SIPC coverage for the same exposure? I'm already looking at my trezor like an increasingly useless item.
Yeah yeah, satoshi's vision etc, but I'm here for the money.
>>57278014
It feels that way to me. I often go back to school and apply dow theory to the crypto market, with that element being, a move on "industrials" is confirmed by "transportation" and "utilities" ie, btc is down but eth rose, thus a broad market selloff is not confirmed. Only when you see all the coins moving in lockstep is action warranted.

[Anonymous No.57281079]

>>57277788
i should have read this first and just said "this"

anyone who still believes in crypto at this point is just waiting to lose all their money.

not everything works, you know? we failed to change society here. people didn't want to change, even with a demonstration put right in front of them. they wanted to speculate. they want the US dollar. they want the gambling casino feel from the markets.
everyone knows you can't tell people, "no you want this instead," it doesn't work. we tried a version of "look at us, wouldn't this be better?" and they've clearly and firmly said "no"
some of us got out breakeven, some of us made undue multi-bagger returns, some of us lost a little, but we can all say we took part
cryptofag gamblers still clinging to their "i gotta 10x this week" mentality are meant to be slaughtered. step aside, and let blackrock do it.

[Anonymous No.57281100]

>>57281067
i find the price action surprising in that historically when btc dropped 10% most alts would lose 20-30% but even in the top 200 its like 7-15%. kind of crazy. will crypto become uncorrelated with bitcoin. sort of makes sense if majority of btc liquidity is off-chain now. could see a return to 2017 volatility for altcoins.

[Anonymous No.57281187]

>>57281079
Are you capitulating? Virtually everyone with a little patience made beaucoup in this. The idea of btc = new cash was retarded from the start and properly rejected, but as a network over which to transfer value it is still lightyears ahead of tradfi and the argument of btc = new gold still makes sense. That may be hard to see for the retail user, but if you've been behind the curtain at banks, you know immediately why. 20 minute, real time, peer to peer settlements across any geographies, accessible from the lowest to highest levels, effectively sovereign? Basically a pipedream, things I wished existed when I was still clearing tx for the banks.
>>57281100
It's worth modeling ig, I wonder what the actual statistics are. Never bothered to look
Sounds like it's just better correlated now based on what you've written.
>will the correlation fade
I doubt it, if you're seeing divergence now, expect it to be met with convergence later. Kinda hard not to be correlated with the biggest fish in the pond. The only scenario I see this happening is in immature coins if btc becomes a $6 gorillion stablecoin.
>'17
You probably see heightened volatility in alts when there's volatility in btc, but expect it to be less than previous, everything tends towards lower volatility as the market develops. Alts were mostly brand new in 2017.

[Anonymous No.57281232]

>>57277813
Litterally nothing. Commoners aren't as degenerate and stupi as crypto cultists think they are.

[Anonymous No.57281473]

>>57277765
because their main goal is to speculate and get retire on bitcoin, not to topple down fiat or any ancap ideal

[Anonymous No.57281709]

it says - 95 BILLION

[Anonymous No.57281780]

>>57277701
you are a retard ngl

[Anonymous No.57281784]

>>57277717
oh nooo !!! maybe u should cry !!!

[Anonymous No.57281818]

>>57277661
HAHAHAHA LMAO

[Anonymous No.57282098]

>>57277788
Can't wait till Saylor loses his shirt.

[Anonymous No.57282135]

>>57281079
Crypto is not useful as a currency, simple as. Maybe Monero is the exception but is de facto banned anyway.

[Anonymous No.57282207]

>>57277777

[Anonymous No.57282294]

>biz is dead
>btc is just another ETF
>crypto like xmr is dead

btc could dump to 3k and this board would still be a ghost town. I miss 2021 now atleast it was active. Biz died the day link hit its ATH over 50.

[Anonymous No.57282344]

>>57277661
First thing is that Tweet says -95 Billion
It's -95 Million.

So total inflows were 750 Million
OTC at Coinbase is 60 Billion.
Also the ETFS all hold Billions of BTC to begin with.

Grayscale for example has 26 Billion of BTC as of this morning.
https://platform.arkhamintelligence.com/explorer/entity/grayscale

It's going to take some time to deplete The ETFs already held BTC
and Coinbase's OTC 60 Billion.

...but it WILL happen and then the moonshot.
Same thing happened with the Gold ETF. It went down for two weeks before the moonshot.

[Anonymous No.57282354]

>>57277701
I'm not educated on redditors but I would assume the vast majority don't buy btc until the absolute peak.

[Anonymous No.57282356]

>>57277775
That's 100% untrue
https://platform.arkhamintelligence.com/explorer/entity/coinbase

[Anonymous No.57282371]

Gold dropped 9% after the first US spot ETF in Nov 2004
It took 10 months for Gold to make new highs
Gold went on a 6 year rally afterwards

[Anonymous No.57282382]

>>57282371

[Anonymous No.57282391]

>>57281187
i sold for about a 20x gain in 2017.
my trade wasn't "capitulation" but my attitude is.
when the bandwagon of idiots shows up and pays you a lifetime of gains right up front, today, you just take it and shrug and go to the next thing.

[Anonymous No.57282404]

>>57282135
that's right. but i'm speaking of ten years ago, when it had the chance. it was possible to use at scale instead of credit card networks, instead of international transfers, and so on.

[Anonymous No.57282425]

>>57282344
>Also the ETFS all hold Billions of BTC to begin with.
it's just sad, really.

RIOT only has about 7000 BTC.

MARA has 13k or so, but MARA switched their inventory accounting from LIFO to FIFO last march. that means it's likely worth 30% less, maybe 50% less, than the balance sheet states. it isn't realized until they sell all the way to the bottom of the well, at which point... negative earnings.

[Anonymous No.57282459]

>>57282371
gold has a use whether there's a speculative market for it or not. the gold ETF cope is just silly, rates were slashed and everything went absolutely bonkers from 2003 to 2012, it was one of the greatest bull markets of all time. you typed all these cope posts on a computer which could not even exist without gold.
"real" actual bitcoin is being sequestered between exchanges, miners and these dozen or so fund managers. that's it's end. it will die at $1/BTC just the same as it would die at $10,000,000/BTC -- when it finally becomes of no value to swap it around, aimlessly, it goes straight to zero from there.
the whole point of it was attempting decentralized trust. but if you dump it and buy the ETF instead, you don't participate in that trust.

[Anonymous No.57282460]

>>57277661
whoever wrote this just has no clue
>we had x inflow and y outflow but price changed by z how can it be???
they just have a retarded mental model of how trading works, any combination of inflow, outflow and price change can co-occur because the PRICE at which assets are traded can be anything
what a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.57282536]

>>57277661
Grayscale is hemorrhaging AUM because they kept their fees insanely high so boomers are basically moving from GBTC to other BTC ETF.

The thing is: it's not like moving btc from an address to another, the BTC are actually dumped on the market when someone sells GBTC and bought back when he buys back a BTC ETF.

I think we're going to see the chart draw a lot of wave patterns over the coming weeks but in a range.
If GBTC bleeds 200-300 millions a day it's going to take around 3 months to distribute it to 0 (unlikely to happen but you get the picture).

Meanwhile there is a huge incentive for funds to become the leader early in BTC ETFs (because really it doesn't change much in terms of work to manage 5 billions or 15 billions in BTC however your fees go from 10 millions to 30 millions a year) which incentives to push the demand HARD (either by solliciting their clients or seeding themselves).

My belief is that we're actually going to see excruciating crabbing for BTC until the distribution ends.
People are still too accustomed to crazy volatility of the era where you were getting short/long squeezed by Spoofy, CEXs and kikes like Alameda/FTX. I think this era is coming to an end.

[Anonymous No.57282551]

>>57277661
imagine thinking that by the creation of bitcorn etfs, that wallstreet wouldn't heavily manipulate the price in order to gives the etfs the best trajectory into the future

[Anonymous No.57282573]

"could buy the rumor sell the news be wrong is this case"

two days later

nope!

[Anonymous No.57282582]

you need to understand the country you grew up in is gone now. they literally used the SEC twitter account to liquidate longs

[Anonymous No.57282634]

This is good in the long run, but just proves Bitcoin is better

Bitcoin is traceable supply and demand

All these etfs, financial products are crudely managed, clunky that trade at premiums and discounts are restricted by banks and brokers on who can buy them, when and at what time. This kind of shit just points out how inefficient tradfi is

[Anonymous No.57282659]

>>57277788
>>57281079
Yet crypto is still the only way to transfer money out of my country. Which means it has a usecase. Which means you 2 faggots sold the golden ticket and now have to cope HARD.

>please sell
I keep telling you, you had a year

[Anonymous No.57282932]

>>57277765
Everybody said this about futures and then we had a massive bullrun

[Anonymous No.57283845]

>>57277788
>bankers won

just ride the next hype, anon. It's regulated crypto markets and REAL tech company cryptos with real profit making company behind it, not those fancy startups which are drinking onions lattes with investors money.

If you look top-10 markets, there are only one real utility coin which is XRP. Also it's the only one making >100,000,000$ profit per quarter
(besides the chinese eth BNB)

also check'ed

[Anonymous No.57284088]

>>57277788
Newfag nigger logic

[Anonymous No.57284132]

>OP last week "sell the news is a meme"
>OP now "oh man it's going back to 16k it's really over"

[Anonymous No.57284135]

ETFs bought more than they needed OTC to dump on the open market in the hopes of cascading liquidations to free up more BTC to slurp. Just normal kosher market activity. Stop using leverage like a degen, DCA into your hardware wallet and ignore the day to day market noise

[Anonymous No.57284150]

>>57277698
>scared you'll get another go at cheap BTC
ngmi

[Anonymous No.57284372]

>>57282404
>when it had the chance
High quality stores of value are never used as mere transactional media, historically the OG shitcoin silver dominated currency use, while gold was used as store of value, the same will be true of bitcoin, with shitcoins like fiat continuing to be the wagie debtslave currency

[Anonymous No.57284416]

>>57282459
Industrial use of gold is microscope, something like 5% of annual production, gold would crater to below $100/oz if it lost store of value demand

[Anonymous No.57284483]

>>57277918
UAL, BA, and AMR

[Anonymous No.57285053]

You know what would be funny and full clown world?

Imagine the REAL satoshi (not that faggot bsv sociopath or any other one claiming to be satoshi) coming back, online and using the private key to an-hero the entire blockchain.

Now that is worth a whole month of economic shädenfreude