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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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56932619 No.56932619 [Reply] [Original]

How much do you really need to do this? I’m thinking about dropping from full time employment to part time. I fucking hate working bros

>> No.56932661

What sort of quality of life do you want to live in retirement and how much money in 2023 dollars will you need to support that quality of life? What do you expect the yearly inflation rate to be from now until you die, and what do you expect investment returns to be?

>> No.56932682

How much would you need to raise a family and work only part-time?

>> No.56932684

Few mil for me would be fantastic.
Our property is 100% off the grid and I need to drive quite a bit into town to buy anything. Internet is from a usb modem (will be upgrading to Starlink)
My cost of living is much cheaper which means I can work less hours and spend more time doing the things that I enjoy.

>> No.56932708

>>56932619
>How much do you really need to do this?
Depends on how much time you have left, how you're allocating your portfolio, and how your expenses will change over the years.

Here are two useful calculators:
https://portfoliocharts.com/charts/withdrawal-rates/
https://www.cfiresim.com/
And here is a blog post rabbit hole with another useful calculator:
https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/

TL;DR is you probably need 25x-40x your current yearly expenses.

My main concern with the FIRE movement's guidance is that the "safe withdrawal rate" relies on your expenses not scaling up by more than CPI each year. But CPI is manipulated to hell and very easy to go over. So I'll be building in some sort of buffer to try to deal with that.

>> No.56932836

>>56932619
Reminder: Even in the US, you can live on less than 25 k$/a very easily.
https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables.htm#crosstab

>> No.56932844
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56932844

>>56932619
I hate "working" too but it's moreso working for someone else, dealing with co workers, company culture etc. I started a business that allows me to work about 30hrs/week for 80k/yr. I could work 50hra/week if I wanted and make well over 6 figures but it's just not worth it for me. I would rather do what I do part time till I'm 70 or even 80 than work 40+ and retire early.

>> No.56933850

>>56932708
thanks for the links, looks to me like a 3% withdrawal rate is pretty rock solid on a long-time horizon (and most of that money should be in equities)

>> No.56934349

>>56932836
how do i read this

>> No.56934509

The biggest issue in the US at least is how you'll pay for insurance. We all hate our employers but they do typically contribute more to our health insurance than we do, and a single surgery would fuck your whole retirement if you didn't have it.

Trying to retire at 30 seems cool until you have some prostate issue at 45 and have to pay out of pocket

>> No.56934945

>>56934509
Not a burger but private health insurance is a thing and as far as I know you can get it fairly cheap. It's an extra cost for Americans but they can probably easily find the money for it with their high salaries.

>> No.56935815

>>56932619
about $3-5 million today in USD in the USA depending on your state

>> No.56935945

>>56932619
Speaking as someone who basically has achieved this, there are 2 main components. It's your skill to make money and your money. The better your skill to make money, the less money you need to do this. At around $500k, if you can't become FIRE, you have a massive skill issue. The takeaway from this is that you need to be building actual skills that matter AND money at the same time.

If you know how to do the landlord thing, $500k should be enough to parlay into vastly larger sums. If you know how to start businesses or run franchises, same deal. It all hinges on your money making skills though and you can do it with less or it might require more. $500k felt like the sweet spot though. For me that was where my bucket started to fill up faster than I could come up with ways to spend it.

Other factors though are the sort of people you have in your life. A shitty girlfriend or a shitty family or a shitty girlfriend with a shitty family will completely wreck any capacity you have to achieve this. You have to build your existence in a way that is conducive to this end and that involves removing a shitload of distractions. So you need skill, capital, and an ability to arrange/manage your day to day life such that it is conducive to this goal.

The skills can be hard, but they don't have to be. Becoming the sort of person from a character standpoint that is worthy of attaining this lifestyle is very difficult just because of the way reality works. As you start to become the biggest guy in the gym, everyone starts to want to talk you, and if you talk to everyone, if you eat all the cake they offer you, you aren't going to be the biggest guy in the gym anymore in a way that matters. The more money you make and the more free time you build, the more people will try to dump their shit into your life and you will "rebalance" to a lower quality of existence. It's fucked, but you need to be ready to prevent that when it happens.

>> No.56935991

>>56935945
>the more people will try to dump their shit into your life and you will "rebalance" to a lower quality of existence
Does this even apply to someone that's practically a ghost? Like someone that despises socializing and only leaves the house for necessities and work.

>> No.56936205

>>56935991
To give you the best answer I can first and directly: I think it will manifest differently for everyone, but it will manifest. I don't think being a ghost will be enough to avoid the challenges I'm talking about entirely. If you stay in your house and you avoid everyone, financial success will still result in a few things that alter the structure of your life and change people around you, even ones you don't know or haven't met yet.

The two big ones are you get more time which will affect your mood and openness generally and you will become a more desirable target for people. If you have nothing, spending 10 hours "working on you" isn't worth people's time. When you have $1.5 million, 10 hours to get a piece of that might be worth someone's time. The combination of you having more time and being more open and other people now having more incentive to get a piece of you is a deadly one.

There is a third one I call the high profile effect which results from you having more to lose at a certain point than all the people you might come in contact with. This is that whole thing where you become daddy to everyone and they all start blaming you for all the problems in the world as if you should be using your resources to fix everything wrong with the planet, even shit you physically have no qualifications to fix.

I guess you could say the counter is to just seal yourself away in a vault somewhere, but I'm not sure that's an actual solution and it may be one of those things that in theory you think will work, but then in practice as you start to hit different milestones of success, you'll find yourself in situations that you are totally unprepared for because your original planned solution was to just hide in the mountains from everyone. It only takes one person to drag you into a vortex.

>> No.56936523

>>56934349
Go to the "singles by income before taxes: single males" PDF, and look at the "less than $15,000" column. These numbers are annual expenses.

>> No.56936574

>>56934945
You can get private health insurance, but its very expensive. Your employer will put in $3-4 for you for every $1 you put in, probably for a tax break. Private health insurance for an individual would probably cost at least $15000 a year, so it would absolutely be work working 24 hours a week at a blow off job for the insurance. You have the freedom to tell your boss to go fuck themselves whenever you wanted at least since you aren't actually dependent on the job, its just an optional cost savings

>> No.56936612

>>56936205
>being more open
The exact opposite happened to me, not that I was open to begin with.