TAX ANXIETY THREAD

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TAX ANXIETY THREAD Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:30:43 2017 No.5366749 [Reply] [Original]

>Be me
>Put some money in january 2017
>Made over $250k
>Keep no records of transactions
>Even though I want to pay taxes, I am literally unable to due to lack of records

AM I FUCKED?????

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:31:57 2017 No.5366792 Texas bruh

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:32:45 2017 No.5366809 What Uncle Sam doesn't know won't hurt him.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:32:52 2017 No.5366815
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>>5366749
Literally on the same boat. Please trump do a tax amnesty i have no idea how to do my taxes correctly. There are no records... this is impossible

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:33:03 2017 No.5366857 >>5366749 chinese site that doesn't require verification btc>monero

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:33:08 2017 No.5366860
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wait i need to be keeping records of this shit? if they want to tax me to death then they need to keep the records themselves and just tell me what i owe. oh man im so fucked

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:33:17 2017 No.5366862 just be yourself

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:34:06 2017 No.5366888 >>5366857 monero to fiat ?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:34:23 2017 No.5366898 >Load coins onto nano S >Fly to Syria >Take migrant caravan over to Greece/ Italy >Say allahu akbar please gief asylum >Enjoy your 0% tax

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:34:57 2017 No.5366919 Just subtract your initial investment from your current holdings and that's your income. Pay whatever % of that applies to your bracket.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:35:09 2017 No.5366926

>>5366809
>Buy a few thousand dollars worth of crypto
>Value goes up to $250k
>Didnt store all my shit on coinbase, so government doesn't know
>phew.jpg
>Rent bill comes in. "That will be $1500, anon"
>damnit, looks like I will have to cash out some crypto to pay this bill
>send crypto to coinbase, cash out to my bank account
>OH FUCK NOW THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS

there is no winning here.... is there guys?>?>

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:35:25 2017 No.5366936 does your exchange not have a record of trades?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:35:58 2017 No.5366958 >>5366888 small amounts

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:36:13 2017 No.5366969 >>5366898 fucking kek because it will work

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:36:54 2017 No.5366989 >>5366860 If you do not keep records of your crypto to crypto transactions, then the IRS will assume that all the extra crypto you earned has a 0 cost basis. This fucks you royally i think

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:37:24 2017 No.5367009 >>5366749 Just cash out and if they come after you say you didn't know because coinbase never sent you any tax documents or just cash out slowly via btc atms

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:37:56 2017 No.5367027 >>5366792 Texas doesn’t pay crypto taxes?? Tf

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:38:04 2017 No.5367034 >>5366749 Cash out somewhere in Asia or Belarus

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:38:13 2017 No.5367040 >>5366926 just pay the 15% capital gains tax when it's time

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:38:28 2017 No.5367046 I think governments are really insane thinking they can reliably tax these currencies. The wealth will just start flooding out of the country.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:38:41 2017 No.5367057 >>5366936 I use like 6 different exchanges to do all the crypto trading I do, not to mention the ICOs (which you have to record yourself).

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:39:12 2017 No.5367067 >>5366926 why does the gubmint know what you've got on your coinbase account?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:39:42 2017 No.5367086 turn it all into bitcoin/monero and sell it on craigslit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:41:02 2017 No.5367126 >>5367067 have you been paying attention to the news at all retard? IRS sued and they won. Also, bank will tell the government any input/output from crypto

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:41:27 2017 No.5367142 >>5366749 there is no cashing out wait for the time it won't be needed fuck taxes, be le snek

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:41:44 2017 No.5367148

>>5367086

yet 80% of listings on localbitcoins or craigslist or kijiji are honeypot/feds

seriously, if OP or anyone doesn't have a record of their trades, they're fucked. PERIOD. that's the #1 advice I give to anyone before they even get into crypto, is are you willing to keep a record of EVERY SINGLE trade, if not don't even try, you won't ever be able to cash out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:43:01 2017 No.5367197 >>5366926 Step one. Stay unemployed Step two. Don't cash out for a year Step three. Cash out exactly 36000 a year. Your income is now in a non taxable bracket for long term capital gains. Fuck the gubment

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:43:59 2017 No.5367232 >>5366749 Trading and exchange company's usually enable you to see your history or download them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:44:20 2017 No.5367252 >>5367148 why? is selling locally illegal?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:45:22 2017 No.5367299

>>5367148
massive faggots detected.
Pussy asses , i skimped out on taxes a few times already. I was making shit money but wasn't keeping track so just didnt do them. I am completely fine.

Pay taxes on CRYPTO? Lmao don't make me laugh, ill pay $50 and say that's how much i thought it would be.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:45:22 2017 No.5367300 >>5367197 What the fuck is this gay ass advice? I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA MOTHERFUCKER i have a standard of living to maintain

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:45:48 2017 No.5367317 >>5366809 I personally am a law abiding citizen officer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:47:52 2017 No.5367388 >>5367300 >lives in Mexifornia >talks about living standards

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:48:15 2017 No.5367397 in my experience with being audited once, the IRS generally errors on the side of fucking you deep in the ass

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:48:51 2017 No.5367417 >>5367126 I'm neither a Burgerclap nor do I use Cuckbase, so no I don't read that kind of news. I wonder if something similar is happening in Europe though. AFAIK crypto profits are tax-free when hodling for more than 1 year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:48:56 2017 No.5367421 >>5367299 >Pussy asses , i skimped out on taxes a few times already just wait a couple years till the IRS nails you down

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:49:29 2017 No.5367438 get tenx or bitwala you retard anything is better than paying taxes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:50:25 2017 No.5367473 >>5366749 hire a CPA, you'll end up paying full tax basically (assumes $0 cost basis), and maybe penalties for not paying estimated taxes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:52:35 2017 No.5367541 I have LTC I acquired from the BTCe exchange (now Wex) by trading BTC bought from Mt Gox years ago. How the fuck am I supposed to dig up all my old trade records?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:52:51 2017 No.5367548 >>5367197 Holy kek, this is the ultimate NEET fantasy >Turn $5k into a few million through crypto >Cash out $36,000 a year >Enough for food, some entertainment, and rent >Avoid taxes Truly the life every man on 4chan would want to live

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:53:45 2017 No.5367574 >>5367421 What will they do anon, i'll say no one ever taught me how. And also i thought you didn't have to file taxes if you are making under a certain wage. Play innocent

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:56:01 2017 No.5367655 File: 42 KB, 700x479, 1511222025898.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5367300 >California >Believes they have the only high standard of living Oh god it's official. Californians are the yuppies of the USA.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:56:26 2017 No.5367668 >>5367574 >Play innocent doesn't work like this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:56:32 2017 No.5367673 File: 892 KB, 1200x913, texasawoo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5366792 YOOOOOO ARE YOU SERIOUS MY DUDE? I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW FUCKING LOVE THIS STATE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:56:54 2017 No.5367697 >>5367252 yes. read burtw.com

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:57:27 2017 No.5367715 on bittrex and kraken you can download your trade history pretty sure this applies to the other platforms as well

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:57:56 2017 No.5367724 Now I’m scared to cash out. Why’s this shit gotta be so complicated

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:58:19 2017 No.5367738 >>5367040 lol its 40%

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:58:38 2017 No.5367751 >>5367668 actually, it does. The worst that will happen is he gets fined and has to pay interest on the owed taxes. If they can prove he did it on purpose, then it's a free bed and 3 meals a day for a few months.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:58:58 2017 No.5367766 >>5367541 Well they can't expect you to dig up records that don't exist. Just dig up what you can from your history on exchanges.The more people try to hide their profits, the more they will come down on you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:59:05 2017 No.5367772 >>5367668 >>5367574 I mean they're not going to send you to jail, they just want their money.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:59:24 2017 No.5367781 >>5367673 no state tax but you still gotta pay the feds

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:59:36 2017 No.5367785 >>5366792 Holy fuq so blessed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:59:43 2017 No.5367789 >>5367655 youre about 40 years late on that observation friendo

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:59:57 2017 No.5367800 >>5367772 This... maybe the big players get raped because their taxes actually matter But a college student making shit tier money.. they are gonna give a warning and demand their shekels

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 17:59:59 2017 No.5367801 >>5367751 >Forced hodling for a few months >Provided NEET lifestyle Doesn't sound too bad to me

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:00:13 2017 No.5367806 >>5367751 this anon gets it

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:00:17 2017 No.5367809 >>5367772 >I mean they're not going to send you to jail, they just want their money. incorrect.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:01:00 2017 No.5367827 Nocoiner here. How do you pay tax on crypto to the feds?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:01:48 2017 No.5367848 >>5367197 This.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:02:50 2017 No.5367879 >>5367673 t. brainlet

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:03:27 2017 No.5367906 Literally just don't cash out. Crypto will be directly exchangeable for all goods and services within the next 10 years.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:03:35 2017 No.5367912 Etherdelta is already buying BZC for 5x ICO price faggots.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:03:42 2017 No.5367919 File: 24 KB, 236x418, 1510295247567.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The exchanges have a post of your trade history. https://bitcoin.tax/ Use them on this site. You guys are such fags sometimes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:03:51 2017 No.5367922 File: 14 KB, 800x800, texasball.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5367879 Me no pay tax on internet money in cowboy land

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:06:41 2017 No.5368010 >>5366749 If you made $1000 dollars, do you think we still have to pay the taxes?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:07:21 2017 No.5368034 i bought in with 100k in july i bet they have an eye on me now REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:08:03 2017 No.5368056 >>5367738 Umm sorry but this is an American only thread pajeet

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:08:44 2017 No.5368084 >>5366792 you still have to pay federal taxes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:09:06 2017 No.5368092 >>5368084 >"have to" lmao

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:09:16 2017 No.5368096

what are the actual law changes. do you actually need to report specific intercrypto transactions? surely it would just be CGT on whatever USD you put into the system and whatever USD you cashed out.

if they actually want you to report on every transaction thats retarded. no wonder americans are so fucking in love with small government and muh freedom. maybe in a few hundred years they'll realise big government isn't inherently bad, just theirs is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:11:19 2017 No.5368151 >>5368010 Yes

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:12:03 2017 No.5368171
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Two options I found

https://bitcoin.tax/home

Free for 200 transactions. Otherwise pony up $20 for the 2017 plan. They have lots of exchanges listed with instructions how to import them. Two options, a) Import with .csv files from each exchange. OR (easiest) follow the instructions to allow an API query to import directly.

Was slick as shit. Let's me choose tax % bracket and the like-kind option. Like-kind (irs section 1031) is not allowed in 2018 with the new GOP tax rule. However I don't know if that is retroactive for 2017, conceivably allowing you to use like-kind in 2017. *not a tax expert or advice.
Runner up, since it has a really cool dashboard:
https://cointracking.info/

Really cool, but want to be paid in btc. One plan has a lifetime access to the app. Free version is good too if you don't have a lot of trades. I had to import with csv files. API query required paid plan.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:12:22 2017 No.5368185 >>5366749 right its like one minute youre mining dogecoin to your cryptsy account not even covering electricity and the next minute you are johnny depp in blow. it's not our fault normies went crazy for our internet collectible hobby

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:12:48 2017 No.5368197 >>5368096 this is all you really should worry about and then if they do come knocking on your door you tried to pay what you thought was owed and will gracefully accept the penalty and pay a little more

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:12:55 2017 No.5368203 >>5368151 Can you suggest some software to use to calculate my capital gains tax?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:13:20 2017 No.5368215 >>5368096 big gov. is inherently bad you fucking bootlicker read aristotle

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:16:52 2017 No.5368336 >>5368171 https://cointracking.info/ Just use this Plug in every trade https://cointracking.info/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:17:31 2017 No.5368355 >>5368203 No, why do I need that where I live which is outside the US?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:17:47 2017 No.5368362

>>5368171
what i dont understand is how like kind even matters over a yearly period. you're supposed to pay quarterly. surely you cant be expected to keep a literal usd account where you are constantly balancing your tax liability based on your trading gains/losses. nobody is fucking doing that. instead you make quarterly payments based on your expected earnings for the year. so the only issue is whether risking dollars that are a current tax liability is allowed, I don't see why it wouldn't be. 1031 seems like it only applies to larger timescales. there has likely not previously been a type of property which is traded property to property on such a timescale, so the tax laws are ill equipped to deal with it

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:18:09 2017 No.5368375

>>5367922
no pay state tax. you still gots to pay fed tax.

Start reading up.
>>5368096
every transaction is considered a taxable event in 2018 and beyond. there is wiggle room for 2017 to use the like-kind exchange.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-free-bitcoin-ether-trading-090000442.html

https://www.coindesk.com/uncle-sams-surprise-tax-reform-impact-crypto-investors/

https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/74789/do-altcoin-trades-count-as-like-kind-exchanges-deferred-capital-gains-tax

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:19:40 2017 No.5368429 File: 73 KB, 500x500, FB_IMG_1507645447012.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What happens if you havent cashed out anything? And if you are just letting the initial purchase/invensment sit? No trades at all Do you still have to pay taxes?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:19:47 2017 No.5368432 >>5368092 Enjoy Jamal's dick in your ass after you get audited for having a bank account associated with crypto exchanges.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:20:49 2017 No.5368460 >>5368429 you only have to pay once the gain is realized, which happens when you trade or cash out. so no.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:21:03 2017 No.5368470 >>5368010 You only pay when you cash out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:21:47 2017 No.5368503 >>5368432 if you dont cash out ever, then there's no problem

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:22:00 2017 No.5368513 >>5367027 Yes they do. He probably meant income tax.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:23:00 2017 No.5368541 >>5367197 funny

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:23:44 2017 No.5368560 >>5366792 I know so many retards irl who think no state taxes means no income tax. Kek.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:24:50 2017 No.5368595 >>5368503 what's the point of investing you're not going to cash out ever? what can you even buy with crypto (which sadly you still have to technically pay capital gains taxes on when you do so)?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:25:16 2017 No.5368607 i cant be the only one who wants to know more about this but falls asleep halfway through the thread can i?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:25:25 2017 No.5368614 >>5366898 Tbh it'd be cheaper than paying taxes.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:25:37 2017 No.5368619

>>5368362
Again not a tax expert, but I thought the paying taxes quarterly was for businesses. I don't think you have to pay taxes quarterly on "property". IRS ruled crypto was property, similar to gold/silver.

>>5368429
If you bought and did nothing.
Anything over 1 year falls into long term cap gains. Under 1 year is short term.

The moment you trade/sell triggers a cap gains event.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:26:39 2017 No.5368644 >>5368595 because fiat is sub 80 iq dumb normies like u r what fugg over crypto bc you treat these like theyre "investments" (and no you dont have to pay capital gains on it)

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:27:10 2017 No.5368664

>>5368460
>>5368429
This only counts for 2017. This is why people are pissed.

Once 2018 rolls around, you will be taxed for any transaction that is higher in USD than your previous balance. Any gain you make is a taxable event when you make a transaction.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:27:52 2017 No.5368683 >>5366989 This.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:28:12 2017 No.5368699 >>5368644 >dumb normies like u r what fugg over crypto bc you treat these like theyre "investments" It's not up to me or "normies", it's up to the feds, and they will come down on you if you don't follow the rules.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:29:22 2017 No.5368734 >>5368699 If none of us follow the rules they cant do anything about it. It depends how many people here have stockholm syndrome and will actually track and record their trades.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:29:35 2017 No.5368741 On a scale of 1 to 10 how little do the people regulating this understand how insane this is for crypto to be taxed like this instead of being like-kind. On a scale 1 to 10 how scared do you think they are of crypto?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:29:38 2017 No.5368744 >>5367738 Actually it's 99%. Be grateful goy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:31:20 2017 No.5368810 >>5368699 youre retarded if you think they can charge you capital gains on a sale using btc to buy an actual good on amazon or something

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:32:32 2017 No.5368847 >cash out >pay cgt on the total minus your intial Why wouldn't that work? They can't be set up to track or enforce any of this

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:33:38 2017 No.5368873

>>5368734
this. the dirty secret of the IRS is that it's mostly a voluntary compliance system. they have nowhere near the manpower that would be needed to proactively enforce the tax code.

they just take out a big fish every once in a while to send a message.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:34:06 2017 No.5368890
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>>5368664
For 2017 I plan to do like-kind. If I get slapped on the wrist, I'll pay the amount and penalty. The key is to show good faith in your choices and that you weren't trying to avoid or engage in tax evasion.
2014 IRS deems it property.
Crypto is NOT on the list of items excluded from the 1031 list, there by (logically) it can be used for "like-kind exchange".
Learn GOP tax plan clarifies it for 2018.
Plan to pay my 2018 tax bill in Q1 2019.

I'm saving links to articles etc. that I can reference on my decisions, if they come knocking.

Study up on 2018. Anyone looking to do any trade, here's the 2018 short term.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:35:41 2017 No.5368946

Those that are saying cash out abroad, Can you provide more detail on this. I am a British dual citizen, I hold citizenship in a middle eastern country too. How would I go about cashing out in the middle east - ideally I would want the cash to be USD in this case right

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:37:32 2017 No.5369005 >>5368890 capital gains like trades get taxed only if you short within 1 year of the like trade

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:39:04 2017 No.5369051 >>5367919 >Literally every gdax trade from ETH to USD is a taxable event Fugg

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:39:14 2017 No.5369055 >>5368890 you are a cuck

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:39:41 2017 No.5369068
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>>5368810
http://time.com/money/5007068/theres-a-huge-hidden-bitcoin-tax-that-you-need-to-know-about/

Technically you do have to pay capital gains tax on it. And because most cryptos don't have anonymizing features, you will most likely be caught if audited. The only way to can avoid taxes completely is if you somehow buy everything with Monero, which isn't as widely accepted as bitcoin, which is already a niche payment form.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:41:36 2017 No.5369153 >>5368890 10% of $0 is still $0, isnt ti

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:41:38 2017 No.5369154

>>5368847
Conceivably, but if you have to the moon growth %. All they have to do is suggest/link that to illegal activities. What kind of investment yields 100%... to 1000% (on face value) without being some kind of potential shady deal. Remember, it is correct that they are not set to track or enforce everyone, but all it takes is an automated letter and you are set scrambling finding documents. It doesn't work with you replying "Prove it" to them, its the other way around. And any grief means they just throw you into the IRS meat grinder to receive maximum penalties/etc until you cry uncle.

If asked and not being forthright from the start, whomever is assigned is going to treat you like the corner stoop, drug selling, nigger that you are when they want to see your bank records.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:44:44 2017 No.5369262 Can irs do anything if exchange doesn't have your SSN?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:45:51 2017 No.5369300 >>5369068 that theory by the IRS on the nature of crypto seems like dogshit and I doubt it would hold up in court t. 2L

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:46:02 2017 No.5369307

>>5369262

Where did you get the bitcoin from in the first place? If you got it from an exchange, then yes. They can see that you traded X bitcoin for Y currency on Z exchange, and trace the sending wallet to your exchange wallet to one of the fiat gateways.

Unless you bought bitcoin for cash from someone on localbitcoin, in which case you just commited tax evasion

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:49:19 2017 No.5369425 Just use bitcoin to buy gold and silver you sell for cash

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:49:23 2017 No.5369426 File: 33 KB, 480x295, 1496755046789.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5367300 >California

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:50:43 2017 No.5369470

>>5369005
guarantee most of the people here with altcoins have traded a few times.

>>5369055
not an arguement

>>5369153
technically yes. if you are 100% sure you have your anonymity with funding your accounts. go bonkers. i am also considering it in the future, funding a wallet through a person and signing up for a non verified exchange... like who know. binance?

>>5369307
not only tax evasion, but they have acted as a money changer without a license.
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/rules-money-exchange-business-32383.html
Like happened to this dude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pX7IQ6UOVM

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:54:38 2017 No.5369596 So if I buy $1000 in BTC and then immediately sell the same $1000 does that get taxed despite there being no gain?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:56:37 2017 No.5369657 >>5369596 Only your gains are taxed. Short term is considered taxed as normal in some, over a year is 15% or some shit

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 18:58:37 2017 No.5369724

>>5369657

However under the 2018 tax law if you buy 1000$ in bitcoin on coinbase, and then immediately trade it for 1000$ in ethereium, you are now taxed on that $1000 eth capital gain. If you try to move that eth within 1 year you pay your income tax percentage on that $1000, if you try to move it after a year you pay 15%. If you then try to sell the eth for USD, you pay double tax for the like-trade capital gain and then the eth->usd cash out

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:01:22 2017 No.5369798 What happens if you cashed out, then then rebough a few days later?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:02:18 2017 No.5369837 >>5369307 no doubt, but what if i'm john smith on exchange with random dob, street, without ssn, with btc obtained with paypal.. irs can do exactly what in a sea of millions crypto traders only in us

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:02:21 2017 No.5369839 >>5369798 You pay tax on the cash received from the sale.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:02:22 2017 No.5369841
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>>5369596
No. The system is retarded. It goes like this:

Trader Joe starts off with $1,000 capital. He invests into Shitcoin A. Since there is no gain and a direct purchase, there is no tax.

Shitcoin A proceeds to moon and does a x5. After mooning and doing a x4, Joe decides to trade his Shitcoin A investment of now $5,000 to Shitcoin B. This is taxed, ~20% of the $4k gain, which would be around $800.

Shitcoin B moons as well and does a x3, now worth $15,000. Joe trades his $15,000 of Shitcoin B to C. He now taxed on the gain, which is $10,000, so $2,000.

Shitcoin C stalls and does poorly. His $15,000 is reduced to $12,000. Frustrated he pulls out and put it into Shitcoin D. He is not taxed because it is a loss.

Shitcoin D crashes to $6,000. He panicks and puts it in BTC. BTC has its crash today, and it once again halves his investment to $3,000.

Tax season! Guess what! His capital gain taxes are $2,800 DESPITE HIM NEVER SEEING THE GAINS BECAUSE HE DIDNT CONVERT TO STABLE CURRENCY (FIAT).

Now Joe is IN THE RED because of this retarded tax system. I shit you not. This is what has people scared. It's not just the tracking of trades, its the fact that this kind of tax is devastating due to the volatility of the market.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:03:44 2017 No.5369877

>>5369596
You made nothing. So you pay nothing in taxes.
In that scenario you trigger capital gains tax. It finds no change. $0 tax bill in that transaction.
Technically you probably have a loss, since you had fees on both the ends of the trade.

So you would in theory have a negative tax of $2 or $3 (or whatever the fee was).

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:05:12 2017 No.5369931 >>5369841 TL DR THIS TAX SYSTEM IS FUCKING RETARDED AND YOU ARE KEKING YOURSELF AND OTHERS BY PAYING IT.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:05:38 2017 No.5369945 >>5369839 Even if it’s reinvest and coin goes bust effectively killing all of your profit?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:07:39 2017 No.5370032 >>5369841 Good write up. Lesson learned to all. Pull that amount off the table and sock it away for tax time. Otherwise, you're basically trading with someone money (govt) at that point.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:08:01 2017 No.5370045 I only got 300usd worth of ETH and this is fucking stressing me out too much Decentralized my ass, fucking cunts in the goverment always find a way to fuck everuone over

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:08:13 2017 No.5370050 >>5369945 Once you pull out and receive FIAT, the transaction in the eyes of the IRS is done. Your next reinvest is buying new bitcoin all over again.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:09:23 2017 No.5370089 >>5369841 What? I thought the gain would be calculated at the end of the year. This makes no sense, this sounds like you could end up paying more in taxes than you gained.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:09:29 2017 No.5370097 File: 45 KB, 470x470, modern_art_paintings_21st.-.-merello.-_pietro_di_milano.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >he doesn't have bank accounts in switzerland and the bahamas lmao @ you're lyfe

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:09:45 2017 No.5370108 >>5367197 Would this actually work? I don't have a job so I could do this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:09:48 2017 No.5370109 >>5367197 this is honestly the only way to do it if you don't want to get fucked by the IRS. Average person won't though because muh lambo

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:10:31 2017 No.5370134 >>5369724 How much if summarize?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:10:59 2017 No.5370145 >>5369841 ahh I see Communism has an answer to Capitalism.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:11:17 2017 No.5370160

>>5370089

>you could end up paying more in taxes than you gained.

You got it friendo. That's why cryptos tanked today, because of this news.

In his orginal example: Bitcoin crashes to $3000, Joe's taxes are $2800 which he then pays in April. The next day, Bitcoin crashes to $500 and he sells at a loss.

He now has paid $2800 in taxes and is out $500 of his net gain, which means because he bought $1000 of shitcoin in the first place, he is down $3200. Because of this tax system you can now LOSE more than you PUT IN. That is the fundamental problem with it. You should never be able to lose MORE than you have paid. Only up to and including 100% of it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:11:25 2017 No.5370168 >>5366749 How the fuck don't you have records. Unless you went against United States laws and went with an untrusted exchange, they should have records available for tax calculation. You must be a brainlet

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:11:46 2017 No.5370178 >>5370097 How easy is this to do and cash out with? Serious question, genuinely curious if anyone on /biz/ has.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:12:00 2017 No.5370183 Thanks for voting for Trump you morons

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:12:47 2017 No.5370202 >>5368096 >/pol/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:14:25 2017 No.5370247 >>5369841 What's to stop you from telling the gubbamint that you put $1000 in BTC and sold out at $3000 and that's all that happened? How are they going to know?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:14:39 2017 No.5370251 >>5368056 america differentiates short term cap gains from long term. you pay income tax on short term gains guess which bracket you're in for 200k+ gains

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:14:48 2017 No.5370261

>>5370108
Yes.

Bonus answer. You are allowed to gift someone $14k tax free each year. This is not considered income.

If I gift 14k to a child who is 18. Then open an account for him to trade, while me doing the trading all those trades will be 0% capital gains.

Spoiler, I wish I had done this from the start. Instead I'm potentially paying 20k in cgt this year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:14:56 2017 No.5370267 >NEET for one year >made $4k in shitcoins >cashed out at least $500 >traded a bit here and there with btc to get other shit coins what happens to me then

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:15:26 2017 No.5370281
File: 3 KB, 157x118, 7675765bhfg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5370032
The problem is that the market is super volatile. People cant cash out in time, hell even a full time autist neet at home would have trouble keeping up with the market. ITS FUCKING RETARDED AND YOU ARE A KEK IF YOU ACTUALLY PLAN ON FOLLOWING THROUGH.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:15:31 2017 No.5370285

>>5370247

because despite what your best friend at the best buy home theatre department has told you, bitcoin is NOT anonymous. They can trace the coinage from where you bought it on Coinbase/Gemini/Kraken, see right on the blockchain explorer where it went and where it goes from there

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:15:42 2017 No.5370288 >>5367906 New tax law wants to tax crypto gains, so even if you don't cash out you will have to pay taxes on your yearly gains.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:16:40 2017 No.5370324 File: 1.15 MB, 362x640, 1513546483744.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5370183 Considering we're not sitting in a smoldering nuclear creator like we would have been with Hillary - I'd say we're pretty lucky.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:16:53 2017 No.5370327 >>5367574 ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha "i didnt know"

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:17:09 2017 No.5370331 >>5370285 They're not going to do that

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:17:36 2017 No.5370344

>>5370160
Yep. In 2017 it was a gray area, being able to use 1031 to defer cgt tax with good faith.

2018 they clarified that crypto is not allowed for 1031. All the day traders who went from 10k to 200k or 600k won't be able to do that nonchantly in 2018.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:18:15 2017 No.5370369 >>5370331 What the fuck do you think an Audit is? That's literally what they do. They pull every receipt and transaction you have ever made and look through it all.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:18:53 2017 No.5370389

>>5370160
Interesting, but what if it crashes before you pay?
Say you owe $2800 in taxes from gains you made, it crashes and you're at a net loss.
Would you still owe the $2800 even though you lost all the money that you were just taxed on?
I thought what you owe in taxes would be adjusted based on net gain/loss, so that there would be no way for you to owe more than you made.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:19:08 2017 No.5370400 >>5366926 Buy prepaid cards with crypto stupide

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:19:19 2017 No.5370406 >>5370324 You’re a fucking idiot if you actually believe that

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:20:26 2017 No.5370439

>>5370369
So why is it not good if you, say
>invest 1000$ into some exchange
>do trading or whatever
>cash out into fiat 2000$ after a year
>Write down 1000$ capital gains, so you have to pay like 10-15% or whatever it is where you live, still have 800-900$ gains

Why isn't this possible?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:20:39 2017 No.5370446 >>5370389 >Interesting, but what if it crashes before you pay? You still owe the $2800, but nothing on the cash out because you cashed out for less than your initial

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:20:39 2017 No.5370447 >>5370267 Pay nothing. However, save your records. AKA https://bitcoin.tax/home and include them in your taxes. Or at least use TurboTax and run it with including them and not including them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:20:41 2017 No.5370449 File: 307 KB, 480x454, 1491632077075.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5370369 Then how do I cover my tracks? How do I not get audited?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:21:13 2017 No.5370466

>>5370389
Would you still owe the $2800 even though you lost all the money that you were just taxed on?

Yep, that's the problem.

>I thought what you owe in taxes would be adjusted based on net gain/loss, so that there would be no way for you to owe more than you made.

No, see, that's a sane tax law. The United States government doesn't like sane tax laws.

You are blindly taxed on every transaction you make that has a higher USD gain from your previous transaction. It doesn't take into account net gain/loss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:21:59 2017 No.5370490 At what amount of profit would you need to start worrying about this? I can’t imagine they’d come for you if you only made a few thousand

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:22:29 2017 No.5370501 So what do I have to pay if I bought some Altcoins with BTC in 2017 and plan to hold it for 1-3 years? I'm confused about all this.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:22:34 2017 No.5370505

>>5370439

Because they'll subpoena records from the exchange, if it's based in the US or is in a country that supports that, and then see that you still have more money in there and earned far more than you are saying.

Yes, like people are saying you could falsify what you say to the IRS. You could say you only made $500 or what not, and chances are you'll be fine. But if they ever decide to audit you, they WILL find this stuff. They have tens of thousands of employees whos sole job is to look through everything you've done for a few months. They will find this and see you've lied. Then you go to prison

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:23:03 2017 No.5370520 >>5369841 This has to be FUD. Now way taxes can actually be that retarded. The government's kind of shitty, but they can't be THAT bad. Right? Please don't fuck up my shit for just starting active trading.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:23:25 2017 No.5370530 >>5370490 >t. irs troll

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:23:36 2017 No.5370535 >>5370449 >How do I not get audited? Don't be a US citizen. Any US citizen can be audited. Period. Your income, losses, assets, etc doesn't matter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:24:08 2017 No.5370558 >>5370490 IRS subpoenaed all coinbase account with over 20k.

ANON Fri Dec 22 19:24:19 2017 No.5370566

Amerifag living in Europe. Signed up on all exchanges with my EU passport, and have only bought BTC/ETH from with my EU debit card. Nothing has ever been done in USD or in America.

My EU bank has no idea I'm American, which means the bank will never be asked from Uncle Sam to report to them my bank details (BTFO, FATCA).

My IRS returns for the past 4 years have declared minimal income from my dad's company and some trust income, and no mention of me living abroad/my salary I earn in EU.

Wife is only European, can have her sign up on an exchange site like Kraken or Bitpanda to take out fiat. Will change all crypto to Monero, send to her Monero wallet, exchange it for ETH/BTC through her account and I'm scott-free on US taxes.

I think I've got it figured out, but does anyone have any advice that I may be overlooking?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:24:28 2017 No.5370572 >>5370447 but because I haven't had a job in some time (family caretaker), doesn't that mean I don't have to pay taxes if i don't reach a certain amount of income?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:24:53 2017 No.5370584 >>5370324 >>5370406 both of you stfu. they're literally the same jew.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:25:03 2017 No.5370590 >>5370344 if trump signs off on it, which he probably will because he a faggot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:25:05 2017 No.5370593 >>5370490 Not American, but probably anything lower than $10k wouldn't be worth their time and effort.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:25:16 2017 No.5370599 >>5366749 If you don't want to pay taxes, do you have to?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:25:34 2017 No.5370611 >>5370501 Nothing until you cash out. Then you pay 20% on capital gains. For example, buy alt coins for 1k they appreciate to 10k thats 9k capital gains. so you owe 9k*.2 = 1.8k

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:25:45 2017 No.5370617

>>5367142
>cash out in netherlands or Ireland
>forge proof of all that shit being salaries for a job there
>privacy laws in Netherlandistan and Ireland prevent tax institutions from sharing info
>go back
>enjoy crypto gains with 1,2% loss (NL) or 5,somethingverylow% (IR)
Genuine question, why not? Europoor here, just curious

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:25:49 2017 No.5370618
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>>5370520
Oh believe it, its real buddy. It's real and guess what? Its being pushed at the end of the year.

The United states government always pushes these slimy, evil economical bills right through during Christmas time. They did it with the Federal Reserve, they did it with Gold Standard, and they do it here.

Nothing EVER GOOD comes out of a bill passed during Christmas and New years. Never. This is how they do it.

It's bullshit and honestly - no one should be paying this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:26:31 2017 No.5370643 I think I cashed out maybe $300 once, what do?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:26:50 2017 No.5370659 >>5366749 Crypto isn't taxable until its liquidated. Just take time and look into your options

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:27:02 2017 No.5370663 File: 798 KB, 196x164, ezgif-2168112475.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5370520 >Now way taxes can actually be that retarded. pic related >>5370572 yes, if you gains are less that 38600, you don't have to pay taxes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:27:35 2017 No.5370675 >>5370659 In 2017. As of January 1st 2018 this is no longer true.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:28:11 2017 No.5370694 >>5368946 Just cash out what it takes to rent a truck of peace already Muhammed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:28:37 2017 No.5370710 >>5367772 (((their))) money. They only take it because they can anon, why do you think they buttfuck everyone so hard? So we don't dare to defy the overlords.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:29:33 2017 No.5370748

>>5370281
Just like any investing opportunity. Buyers accept risks whether they know it or not. Crypto is volatile, investors can't deny that. Being unable to cash out in time is not a concern of the IRS, that falls on the investor to tidy up the trades/books.

plan on following through with what? paying taxes? Considering the IRS subpoenaed the userbase of Coinbase for 2015-2016 of anyone who had transactions over $20k... I'm safe for now. But if they review those same records in 2017, I'm going to be on the radar. Hell, anyone who had $1k-$2k in 2015-2016 now has at least 30k in value.

Running numbers/data isn't hard to siphon out who did what, when, and if they owe anything. It could be tamped out in several hours using excel if they have that data.

Is the IRS going to pay a numbers/accountant grunt 8 hours of pay to find 10s of thousands that may owe a combine tax bill of multi millions? You betcha.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:29:49 2017 No.5370760

>>5370446
>>5370466
That's fucking nuts, I see why the market is freaking out right now.
I really wonder if they have the manpower to go through all this, let alone understand it.
If this doesn't get changed to a like-kind exchange they're going to have a huge fucking workload to verify everything, people are going to continue to pull out and they will end up making less in taxes due to the damage they caused.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:29:55 2017 No.5370762 >>5367300 cant find a landlord that wants to be paid in crytpo? u gay

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:30:14 2017 No.5370773 >>5370663 why 38600 btw?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:30:45 2017 No.5370794

>>5370618
But I'm a poorfag. I've been sleeping outside and then in my car so I had spare money to put into something to finally get out of poverty.
What the fuck can they just take all my money for? I don't even have a normal life at and they want to take away the one thing I can potentially have going for me?

>>5370659
>Crypto isn't taxable until its liquidated.
I take this as being converted back into USD. I'll pay taxes when I'm taking it back out into USD, but taxing every trade sounds like a fucking joke and a nightmare.
Maintaining blockfolio with the various prices and amounts a single trade may occur in is a hassle enough.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:30:47 2017 No.5370795 >>5369841 aren't you allowed to offset capital gains with capital losses? You pay tax on net gains at the end of the year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:30:47 2017 No.5370796 >>5370760 They dont need additional manpower. They arent going to go through every single US citizen looking for crypto... it'll just be one more thing they look at during their standard audit procedure.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:31:29 2017 No.5370816
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> Currently, only 50% of realized capital gains are taxable in Canada at an individual's tax rate. Some exceptions apply, such as selling one's primary residence which may be exempt from taxation.[4] Capital gains made by investments in a Tax-Free Savings Account (TFSA) are not taxed.

Harper's legacy. Feelsgoodman.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:32:23 2017 No.5370848 >>5370748 multi billions, hun.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:32:24 2017 No.5370850 >>5370566 i see no point of failure in your case senpai

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:32:51 2017 No.5370867 >>5367197 this. I've talked to attorney and he reocmmended me this. unless Trump fucks us up in the coming years, this is the solution

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:32:53 2017 No.5370869

>>5370748
> I'm going to be on the radar. Hell, anyone who had $1k-$2k in 2015-2016 now has at least 30k in value.

You and loads of other people. Don't pay the "taxes". It's bullshit. You know it, I know it, hell we all know its essentially theft because the government fucking prints money out of thin air.

The government prints money and they actually tax us on income. It's absurd.

Dont pay it. Simple. Tell them to come and take it if they want it so badly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:32:56 2017 No.5370871 >>5370816 But you would have to be Canadian to experience this. Not worth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:33:49 2017 No.5370903 >>5370285 Serious question. How was Bitcoin the currency of choice for the original Silk Road? What has changed since then that makes it completely unanonymous?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:33:55 2017 No.5370908 File: 6 KB, 250x188, 1497760277064s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5370795 >aren't you allowed to offset capital gains with capital losses? Only up to $3,000 loss :trollface:

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:34:06 2017 No.5370914 >>5370611 So basically this new cryptocurrency tax only hurts people that don't plan to hold their coins for long term? Thank you for the help btw.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:34:26 2017 No.5370926 >>5368946 You have to move there

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:35:26 2017 No.5370961 File: 119 KB, 335x211, really.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5370914 Yeah, so don't expect to cash out any time soon mate. We're all in for the long ride, don't you know?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:35:43 2017 No.5370966 >>5366749 Swedistan here. I don't want to pay taxes because it instantly goes in the pockets of immigrants, what do? Should I just keep the coins on my account and move?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:36:25 2017 No.5370984

>>5366919
This. There should be records in your bank account of how much you spent on crypto. For example, I can type a filter "coinbase" in my bank account and that will show all of my transfers to and from Coinbase/GDAX. After you add and subtract everything, the total gain from your initial investment is what you are taxed on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:36:38 2017 No.5370991 >>5370773 That's just the cutoff for 2017, it's actually $37950 if you're single, I must have read an incorrect article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States#Current_law

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:36:50 2017 No.5370998

>>5370903

Because back then you could mine it yourself with a desktop or laptop and at least get enough over time to trade and sell. You would sell or buy with paypal. You still COULD setup a new wallet on your PC, give someone $100 US cash or paypal and they send you bitcoin to your wallet and never touch an exchange.

Then you could use that wallet on silkroad and it would be anonymous as your info isnt tied to it.

THat's still a thing you can do, but the vast majority of places to actually get bitcoin now are through fiat gateways. In the US, these are Coinbase, Gemini and Kraken. All 3 of these are reporting your purchases along with your wallet info so they can trace if you send anything out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:37:10 2017 No.5371009 >>5370675 than wait for 2019 for more favorable update

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:37:34 2017 No.5371026

>>5370505
Yeah but take the example of >>5369841 . It's ludicrous to pay taxes on the steps in between ffs. Wouldn't it be safe to admit that "I invested 1000$ in crypto, traded it around and cashed out 3000$"

Why would he have to pay for invisible gains if he instantly lost them? That's plain fucking retarded

Not saying it's not true, I'm just having a hard time imagining it

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:37:38 2017 No.5371029 File: 46 KB, 540x540, 1512381943929.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5367126 The trial is rigged. No jury, judge appointed by the irs, coinbase can't have witnesses testify. Definition of a police state dictatorship

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:37:58 2017 No.5371038 >>5370903 Bitcoin used to be transferred to a DNM from a wallet presumably created with TOR. It is obviously all still linked, just to a different ip than yours thanks to TOR, or whatever TOR/VPN combination you used.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:38:35 2017 No.5371053

>>5371026
>Why would he have to pay for invisible gains if he instantly lost them?

Because the law being implemented is not designed for instant gains and losses. The PREVIOUS law was. The PREVIOUS law uses the same one stocks do if you trade one stock for another. You only pay tax on return to FIAT.

However the NEW law says that crypto does NOT fall under this exemption. That is why you now have this problem

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:38:46 2017 No.5371062 What about mining? Am I fucked for mining ltc back in the day?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:38:46 2017 No.5371063 >>5367809 ?? completely correct. it would be like trying to send everyone to prison that pirates movies as opposed to just fining them it's an absolute waste of time for the government

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:39:13 2017 No.5371076 >>5366862 idk why, but this made me kek

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:39:20 2017 No.5371077
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>>5370760
> people are going to continue to pull out and they will end up making less in taxes due to the damage they caused.

Do you think they really care about tax revenue? Kek, you dont get it. Tax revenue isnt there to fund the government. Look at the government's spending habits, lmao. Look at the debt clock.

$20,000,000,000,000

Do you really think they care about tax income? LMAO

Taxes are not there to fund the government. It's there to keep us down. It's there to keep up poor. Its specifically designed to keep us poor.

Thats ALL its supposed to do.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:39:43 2017 No.5371086 >>5371053 Aaaah, gotcha. The new law is fucking retarded tho. I assume this is in america, huh?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:39:54 2017 No.5371091

>>5371062

Crypto to crypto trade taxes only start being accounted for Jan 1st 2018. It doesnt matter what you did previously, except for cashing out. If you cash out the ltc you mined back in the day, you still need to pay, but not if you traded that ltc for, say, Bcash or Eth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:40:03 2017 No.5371099 >>5370961 What if I buy more BTC in 2018 and use that BTC to buy more altcoins in 2018 under the new crypto tax rule and plan to hold it for at least until late 2020, what do I pay then? Thank you for the help btw.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:40:03 2017 No.5371100

>>5370572
Yep. if your income is low, you will likely not have any taxes due. But I don't think this means you don't have to file.

>>5370566
I'd double check that salary part. Even if you are a US citizen, any salary you receive is subject to US tax laws. Otherwise rest of what you have is golden. But if you got audited by not claiming income from a salary, that could unravel things faster than you can imagine. Double check that portion.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:40:11 2017 No.5371107

>>5370908
No, you can only offset ordinary income to <3,000>, with capital losses. You can offset capital gains 100% with losses, the only rule there is Long Term Capital Losses cannot offset Short Term Capital gains since LTCG are taxed favorably. Hence the HODL meme so you only have to pay 15% or 20%.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:40:56 2017 No.5371132 >>5371099 You will pay long term capital gains, 15%

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:41:08 2017 No.5371137 >>5371091 So we should get as much into long term cryptos before the New Year as possible?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:41:11 2017 No.5371138 >>5370991 thanks for the info anon

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:41:53 2017 No.5371156
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>>5370816
>Trudeau reduced the TFSA contribution from 10k/year to 5.5k

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:41:57 2017 No.5371158 >>5371137 Correct. Set yourself up now to reduce crypto->crypto trading post 2018 until some lawyers smash this shit out if they can

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:42:39 2017 No.5371178 >>5371156 I know right... Lucky I opened one in 2011 so I've got a pretty healthy TFSA already.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:42:49 2017 No.5371182 >>5366926 the irs doesnt know about recent transactions yet. youll be fine for a bit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:43:15 2017 No.5371197 >>5368734 This. You boomer/Gen X cucks actually reporting when you haven't even fucking cashed out need to fuck off out of crypto, you're making things bad for everyone else.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:44:15 2017 No.5371231 >>5370998 >All 3 of these are reporting your purchases along with your wallet info so they can trace if you send anything out. care to elaborate?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:44:26 2017 No.5371236

>>5371132
Oh I see...so for people that just invest in altcoins with btc and hold for more than a year are not really affected by this new tax? Meaning there is no real difference between investing altcoins pre and post new tax rule for long term holders? Thank you for the help btw.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:44:27 2017 No.5371237
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>>5366749
How fucking difficult is it, retard?
(total income received from exchange) - (initial investment) = capital gain
You don't have to pay taxes on shit until you take it out of the exchange.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:44:34 2017 No.5371240 >>5371178 /maxed out/ TFSA here, feels good man

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:44:51 2017 No.5371249 >>5371107 No, all gains are being considered as realized gains, which means $3,000 is the cap. If its unrealized gains, then you may offset that with losses. Here: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/062713/capital-losses-and-tax.asp

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:45:23 2017 No.5371268 >>5371237 yes you do nigga you have to pay taxes on each and every single trade individually, altcoin trades are not like kind

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:45:53 2017 No.5371285 >>5368734 I feel like chances are you'll be fine if you ignore most of this stuff, but in the smaller chance they do decide to come after you they may decide to make a spectacle of you with a financial lynching.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:46:00 2017 No.5371289 >>5371268 no you don't, moron.

ANON Fri Dec 22 19:46:30 2017 No.5371305

>>5371100
>Even if you are a US citizen, any salary you receive is subject to US tax laws

True. Funny thing is, I work in a tax office here in Europe. Most of our clients are US expats, but crypto has never been mentioned in any situation.

Worst thing that could happen if the IRS were to audit me is that I have some extra income that is below the Foreign Income Exclusion limit which means that any general limitation (salary type income) under ~100k is excluded from being reported in your gross income, along with the fact that I pay taxes to the country I'm in.

Worst thing I'd have to do is re-file my returns for the past 3 years. I still pay taxes to US.

I think I might be able to get away from paying taxes on crypto.

If I make it big, my wife and I may move to an EU country that doesn't tax/minimally taxes crypto...Do any of you know of such a country?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:46:36 2017 No.5371306

>>5371236

No, you will still pay 15% long term capital gains PLUS income tax when you cash it out to fiat.

So the new law, for long term hodlers, is a 15% tax per year on gains

>>5371237
Aww look, an 18 year old who bought $25 of bitcoin and thinks he's a financial wizard. Read the new tax law

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:46:55 2017 No.5371314 >>5371268 >shitcoins are not like shitcoins retardchamber.jpg

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:47:19 2017 No.5371330 >>5371289 yes, you do you fucking mong

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:47:34 2017 No.5371340

>>5371026
Retarded yes.

Think of the govt as a bookie. He lends you 1000 and expects 20%. He's going to want that 20% when you finally cash out at 2000. He isn't in the business of letting (you) allow that money to ride like you're betting on black in Las Vegas 100 times in the next year.

He loaned you 1k, you made 1k. he wants 200 NOW. what you do after that is your business with your 1800. The step you're missing at this point, is you are going back to the bookie, asking for another 1000 to find your next investment opportunity...

I agree it's retarded, but its required. Otherwise people would game the system by some means.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:48:25 2017 No.5371379 >>5366749 The IRS wont just turn a blind eye to the multi-billion dollar cryptocurrency market, but i don't know what the penalties are when they have to inform you of what you need to pay.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:48:30 2017 No.5371382

The only time exchanging one crypto for another would actually result in a tax is if the valuation of the two is different.

If you're trading 1k fiat BTC for 1k fiat ETH its a wash on gains/loss so therefore cannot be considered a taxable event as no gains were made.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:48:33 2017 No.5371383 >>5366792 Ever hear of federal taxes?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:49:34 2017 No.5371424 >>5367197 i want more though, what do i do? also the crypto bulbble will pop eventually

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:49:47 2017 No.5371429 >>5366749 How do you not have records? Are you doing back alley trades for sexual favors? Just log in and every thing you've ever done, down to each timestamp for each login is there.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:50:37 2017 No.5371449 >>5368644 why trade? what if i trade and make more money but it's all left in crypto? i don't have to report till i sell for fiat right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:50:44 2017 No.5371453 >>5371382 >crypto to cry No? If you buy BTC for 1000$, it raises by 50%, then you trade it for ETH, you triggered a taxable event right there on the 500$ gain.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:50:52 2017 No.5371457

>>5371306
Oh I see, I think I'm starting to understand now. So would you say that the best strategy for 2018 and beyond is to buy btc, use that btc to invest in good altcoins and just let it sit for 1+ years? Thank you again btw, I'm a complete fool when it comes to this stuff.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:51:23 2017 No.5371476 >>5371449 No, under 2018 tax law you still must report it as a capital gain

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:51:34 2017 No.5371485 >>5371305 Malta?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:51:35 2017 No.5371486

>>5371379
lol they'll go through your exchange records of hundreds or thousands of transactions and tell you how much you owe?
They'll probably just say something like "I see bitcoin was 20k last year and you were trading so every trade is taxed based on 20k btc."
They'll make it up because it's easier for them an if you just don't want to you'll get the shaft.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:51:39 2017 No.5371489

>>5371099
Transaction 1: you buy BTC (not taxable)
Transaction 2: you sell BTC (taxable)
if the btc value jumped 10% between transaction 1 and transaction 2, you pay gains on that.
Transaction 3: you buy shitcoin (not taxable)

With the volatility, there is no way the price will be the same from when you buy btc with cash and when you choose to buy the next great shitcoin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:51:44 2017 No.5371497 Possible silver lining: Maybe this will incentivise to use crypto as an actual currency. If you don't end up with $$, they won't see you gaining anything.

>>	ANON Fri Dec 22 19:53:35 2017 No.5371560 >>5371485 Malta is beautiful, but fucking boring and full of trashy Brits on vacation. I guess I'd have to live there for a while until I get my gains and then move back to the mainland.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:53:45 2017 No.5371569 >>5366749 So, assuming that all of my crypto to crypto transactions took place before January 1st I don't have to do anything for my transactions when I file my taxes in a few months so long as no crypto to USD took place, correct?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:53:47 2017 No.5371570 You guys will be getting so fucked with the new law. Almost nobody understands it and normies won't even know about it. There will be so many cases of tax fraud next year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:54:13 2017 No.5371585 >>5371137 Yep. And with all the altcoins burning in the garbage bin, now is the time. Mentally prepare yourself to hodl for a year. Like fucking chuck that altcoin ticker out the window and forget about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:54:18 2017 No.5371588 >>5371476 no one is going to actually do that though

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:54:28 2017 No.5371599 >>5371489 Oh I see...so to minimize risk I should invest in altcoins asap once I get the BTC right? Thank you for the help

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:54:53 2017 No.5371614

>>5371489
Buying the shitcoin is only taxable if you gained USD significantly from when you purchased the previous crypto.

>With the volatility, there is no way the price will be the same from when you buy btc with cash and when you choose to buy the next great shitcoin.

Which is why this law is retarded. its a blind tax on all transactions with USD gains.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:54:54 2017 No.5371615

>>5371453

Because you actually made gains there. You stated it correctly where you're paying on the actual gain, everyone else in the thread is overcomplicating it.

With this method you simply take your total, subtract initial investment and pay capital gains on that which is basically the way it works now.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:55:07 2017 No.5371622

>>5371588

And they are commiting tax fraud. As I said earlier, the chances of getting caught are slim, but you could just as well lie about your income taxes or any other gains and get away with it.

Just hope you don't get audited or you will go to prison

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:55:12 2017 No.5371623

Take 30% of the money. Put it in your bank account.
Take the other 70%, drop your pants, stick every dollar up your asshole, and then flap your wings like a chicken while dancing outside an IRS building. Wait for a few buck-ass niggers to come out of the building and smile and thank them as they fish all of that money out with their prehensile penises.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:55:52 2017 No.5371650 >>5371622 what if i say i didn't know

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:56:24 2017 No.5371670 File: 371 KB, 536x622, 1490368583319.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5371497 Again, no. Every transaction you make that has a USD gain is taxable. Period. Cashing out makes no difference, all they care about is the USD gain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:57:00 2017 No.5371689 >>5371650 The judge will say "Ignorance of the law is not exemption from the law" and you will still go to prison

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:57:23 2017 No.5371701 >>5371486 Your real identity is linked to the transactions, the IRS has records of how much tax you paid, it wont be difficult for them to figure out who hasn't paid what they owe.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:57:34 2017 No.5371706 >>5371623 le epic post, my dude.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:58:53 2017 No.5371748 >>5370331 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA man you have an opportunity right now, a. realize you're a brainlet and you will never accomplish anything in life, or b. continue with this retarded fucking existence and pray you don't forget to breathe someday

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:59:03 2017 No.5371758

>>5371382
>If you're trading 1k fiat BTC for 1k fiat ETH its a wash on gains/loss
Yeah, but then when you trade that ETH in the future for 1.5k altcoin, you get taxed.

So you can buy bitcoin on coinbase and then immediately transfer it to an exchange and trade it for something else and that's it, you have to hold until you cash out, no more trades or you're getting taxed. You only get one trade.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:59:10 2017 No.5371762 >>5370558 no they didn't, only if you put in more than 20k in 2013-2015

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 19:59:26 2017 No.5371768 So my crypto trades prior to 2018 don’t count towards this, right? If I just hodl my coins after 2017 I’ll only be paying the 15% gains plus cash out gains, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:00:13 2017 No.5371792 >>5371689 i'm sure there is a way around it, it's such a retarded law, no one is keeping track of every fucking trade, no one is going to report except cucks like you. you don't deserve to be american for obeying these usurpers

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:00:35 2017 No.5371801 >>5371599 There is nothing you can do to minimize the "risk" other than not trade so its easier for you to report gains. If you're a cuck, of course

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:01:23 2017 No.5371835 >>5371701 whats considered real identity?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:01:29 2017 No.5371837 What happens if I cashed out small sums for years?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:01:41 2017 No.5371845

>>5368362
fuck the IRS cunts.

The association of tax attorneys and CPAs wrote an angry letter to them asking for direction on how to report crypto gains in 2016. The IRS didn't fucking respond all of 2017.

Then they file a lawsuit against coinbase asking for customer info.

The IRS is only interested in fucking US citizens in the asshole.

Land of the free my fucking ass.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:08 2017 No.5371860 >>5371091 So to not be affected by this new tax law at all, I should just invest in all the coins that I think have potential before 2018 and just hold for 1+ years?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:10 2017 No.5371861 >>5370449 you WILL be audited, if you have a coinbase account you are already on the list from when they won the suit for customer records. every citizen with a coinbase account will be audited en masse.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:12 2017 No.5371863 >>5371835 you need to provide your real identity to withdraw from bittrex or poloniex

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:33 2017 No.5371871 >>5366926 Make your crypto bitcoin and use localbitcoins to sell

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:40 2017 No.5371877

>>5371305
Yes I do in fact except you don't want to live there. Belarus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-22/europe-s-last-dictator-now-wants-to-be-its-blockchain-king

Belarus leader creates tax-free hub for blockchain projects
Authoritarian ex-Soviet state supports thriving tech industry

Have fun dealing with the Slav mafia and third world conditions.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:43 2017 No.5371880

>>5371249
Unrealized gains are not even considered for taxes, you fucking moron. Your Realized Capital losses, can only be netted against other forms of income to the tune of 3,000. Realized gains and losses are not even considered.

>>5371330
Per tax law, if you exchange one asset for another similar enough asset you do not realize a gain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:02:57 2017 No.5371888 >>5371860 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:03:57 2017 No.5371925 File: 71 KB, 976x388, freedom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5371845 <-- Reminder

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:03:59 2017 No.5371926

>>5371880

>Per tax law, if you exchange one asset for another similar enough asset you do not realize a gain.

You haven't been reading anything going on in this thread or in the news, have you? The January 1st 2018 law declares crypto currencys NOT similar for the like-trades 1031 exemption.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:04:32 2017 No.5371940

>>5371314
https://steemit.com/tax/@lpfaust/us-tax-considerations-crypto-to-crypto-trades-trading-bitcoin-and-altcoins

There are rules for like-kind. This even applies to physical gold. I think I read this week (can't recall the site) that a gold coin is not like-kind to a collectible gold coin, even though they are both "gold". There is enough difference between shitcoins to be ruled they are different from other shitcoins. Which is true since you and others are investing in various shitcoins because they offer different abilities/functions.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:04:35 2017 No.5371945 >>5368890 dude how much will the penalties be?? Then you gotta hire a tax (((lawyer))). Wouldn't it be better to just report every transaction?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:05:42 2017 No.5371977 >>5371880 >Unrealized gains are not even considered for taxes, you fucking moron. That's the thing, you idiot. They are. Thats why we are having this thread. How dumb can you be?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:05:55 2017 No.5371983 >>5369841 Thanks for sharing your insightful input, most people don't even understand how it works

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:06:14 2017 No.5371995 >>5370848 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeqEC66E7hk

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:06:27 2017 No.5372006

>>5366749
This is so fucking chanculture.
> Be an autistic robot on NEETbux
> scrolling through the taiwanese poledancing board of your choice
> learn about cryptocurrencies
> cash in with the meager 500$ you accumulated in savings over the last three years.
> from rags 2 riches
> Get hooked on trading and actually discover that your ability to sift through 1000s of posts in minutes actually pays off applied to high fluctuation daytrading.
> Make over 100k because you have no life and took a liking to playing with money.
> "Fuck I never thought one person can have that much money"
> Be content with your new life as a lone wolf trader.
> Someone mentions Taxes at the end of the year.
> How 2 be an Adult for Dummies.
> Realize that you've fucked up
> Lose everything and get to know Tyrone up close in a jail cell.

I fucking love you guys, unironically, not as individuals but as an collective. Life truly writes the most absurd stories.
Thank you, Anon, even if you get DP'd by tyrone and jamal.
But seriously, I hope you find a way to avoid the impending doom upon you.
If I were you I would dedicate the next two weeks to research your options. You can make it, you'll just have to overcome the first real hardship in your life.
If I were you I would become a drugdealer, buying resources off the web with the money you accumulated. I mean once you go of path, why not ride the new oppurtinities till the end and see where they lead you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:07:14 2017 No.5372027 >>5371925 what is this from

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:07:48 2017 No.5372039 >>5371289 Starting Jan 1, yes you do.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:08:40 2017 No.5372064 Will putting everything into Monero or other privacy coins save us from Uncle Sam?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:09:11 2017 No.5372075

Why do I need to record every trade I make?

Take the following example:
>buy 1 BTC for £10,000
>sell 1 BTC for 100 SHITCOIN
>SHITCOIN moons giving you 10x gains
>sell 100 SHITCOIN for 10 BTC
>sell 10 BTC for £100,000
>profit £90,000
>pay tax on this amount

Now, let's change this slightly
>buy 1 BTC for £10,000
>make multiple trades across multiple exchanges, some losses and some ganes
>net result is 10x gain on initial investment
>sell all coins for 10 BTC
>sell 10 BTC for £100,000
>profit £90,000
>pay tax on this amount

In both scenarios, the 10 BTC cost me £10,000 and gave me a profit of £90,000. Can you expalin why I wouldn't just pay taxes on my net profit when I cash out?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:09:19 2017 No.5372078 >>5372027 https://bitcoin.tax/ Prepare your ankles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:09:29 2017 No.5372087 >>5371650 That only works for Hillary and her cartel.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:09:50 2017 No.5372102 Alright so at the end of the day... Cash out amount=15-20% at the end of the year, yes?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:10:37 2017 No.5372116 >>5366749 lmfao at all you idiots. !st you think you made it then the bubble bursts and most of you get fucked that way. then the rest of you get fucked by taxes. And of course some of you get fucked both ways

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:10:47 2017 No.5372127 >>5371977 Nigger, I'm a fucking tax accountant. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-are-capital-gains-taxed Fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:11:09 2017 No.5372137 >>5372127 lmao a tax accountant who doesnt know the 2018 tax changes right

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:11:51 2017 No.5372157 File: 137 KB, 800x726, lol prolly not.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5372064 >can doing whatever save us from Uncle Sam?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:13:39 2017 No.5372208 >>5372137 > In a nutshell, nothing changed in the basic capital gains tax structure. https://www.fool.com/taxes/2017/12/22/your-guide-to-capital-gains-taxes-in-2018.aspx I can't help you...

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:14:42 2017 No.5372227
File: 1.08 MB, 1001x1100, 1498090997071.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5372127
And I'm the King of England, "nigger". Maybe you should read and understand whats going on before making dumb autistic comments

Isnt it funny how magically there are all these tax accountants and cpas on biz? lmao

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:14:47 2017 No.5372230 File: 47 KB, 500x375, 1502700314919.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5372116 ahh such is the sw3et sweet life of the NEET anon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:15:17 2017 No.5372249 >>5372127 >A capital gain is realized when a capital asset is sold or exchanged at a price higher than its basis. So isn't every trade up in BTC price a realized gain?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:15:22 2017 No.5372251 >>5371860 Yep. You have 11 days.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:16:28 2017 No.5372286

>>5371945
Because the IRS has the last word on penalties, we can't calculate the exact amount if your return is late. But the info below will give you an idea of what to expect in a worst-case scenario (courtesy of IRS Tax Topic 653).

No penalty if you're getting a tax refund.
However, you must file your 2017 taxes by April 18, 2021 (or October 16 of 2021, if you filed an extension). After that, any unclaimed tax refunds get turned over to the U.S. Treasury.
No penalty if you file by October 16, 2018, provided you filed an extension and paid your tax bill by April 17, 2018.
Late filing penalties apply if you owe taxes and didn't file your return or extension by April 17, 2018, or if you filed an extension but failed to file your return by October 16, 2018.
The late filing penalty is 5% of the additional taxes owed amount for every month (or fraction thereof) your return is late, up to a maximum of 25%.
If you file more than 60 days after the due date, the minimum penalty is $205 or 100% of your unpaid tax, whichever is less.
Late payment penalties apply if you didn't pay taxes owed by April 17, 2018, regardless of whether you filed an extension or not.
The late payment penalty is 0.5% (1/2 of 1 percent) of the additional tax owed amount for every month (or fraction thereof) the owed tax remains unpaid, up to a maximum of 25%.
For any month(s) in which both the late-payment and late-filing penalties apply, the 0.5% late-payment penalty is waived.
Interest (compounded daily) starts accumulating on unpaid taxes one day after the due date of the return, until the bill is fully paid off. The current interest rate is 4.18% (3% on top of the federal short-term rate of 1.18%) and is subject to change.
Example: Let's say you didn't file your return by the April 17 deadline and you owe the IRS an additional $1,000.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:16:31 2017 No.5372288 >>5371622 is prison really the only option? don't people get fined/probation and just pay fees to not go to jail

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:04 2017 No.5372298 >>5370089 It is missing the part where you don't instantly pay tax and get credit for losses. Depending on the law/place you can even use this years loss to offset gains in later years

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:15 2017 No.5372302 >>5371861 I thought it was only accounts above $20k? I didn't have above 20k so they don't have any of my info yet, right? Is there still a chance I can hide all past transactions?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:29 2017 No.5372308 >>5372288 Prison is possible, huge fines are also possible. Up to the IRS

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:31 2017 No.5372310 >>5367827 >Nocoiner here. How do you pay tax on crypto to the feds? It's tough. You have to cash out, which we all know is impossible.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:46 2017 No.5372315 >>5372064 I guess you could claim you got hacked? Then maybe buy drugs and sell them on the street to cash out?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:54 2017 No.5372318 >>5372249 Really, we'll understand after next year, but most are of the position that it will be considered a "like-kind" trade. For example right now, I could trade a hotel for 10,000 acres in Nebraska and that wouldn't be a tax event.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:17:57 2017 No.5372319 >>5372127 If I hire you and get fucked with an audit, can I sue your ass? If so, please post your business email.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:18:17 2017 No.5372335

Agreed. Which is why I suggest getting familiar with https://bitcoin.tax/home
It has APIs to query multiple exchanges and suck in those transactions automatically.

>>5371945
Scenario 1: You file an extension on or before April 17 and pay your $1,000 bill on April 27 (10 days late). Your penalty would be $5 (the 0.5% late-payment penalty applied to $1,000), plus another dollar or so for the interest.

Scenario 2: You didn't file an extension, and you file your return on April 27 (10 days late) along with your $1,000 payment. Your penalty would be $50 (the 5% late-filing penalty applied to $1,000), plus another dollar or so for the interest.

Scenario 3: You file your return 5 years late, along with your $1,000 payment. Your penalty would be around $482 (the maximum late-filing penalty of 25% applied to $1,000, plus 4.18% interest compounded daily assuming the interest rate doesn't change).

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:18:34 2017 No.5372345

Thoughts on this?

>buy gold/precious metals with Bitcoin on APMEX or JM Bullion
>receive them anonymoysly at a PO Box
>sell the gold to a local metal dealer for cash
>use the cash to get money orders for rent and use the cash for whatever else you need

You just can't buy cars and houses unless you plan on paying taxes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:18:49 2017 No.5372351 >>5372308 why not up to a jury

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:19:05 2017 No.5372359

Say that i bought 1k worth of eth this year with usd
Say it rockets to 10k by the end of 2018,

Say i dont touch it at all, no trades, no cashout. Do i still have to pay for the gains of that year even tho its literally just sitting?

Or do i just pay once i touch it?

Im not planing on day trading the shit that i have, just let it sit for a while

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:19:37 2017 No.5372374 Literally all crypto's promise is a product after 5 years, BZC is the only one of 20 coins that's actually finished.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:19:40 2017 No.5372375 >>5372319 If you get fucked on an audit, like actually fucked, and not just hit with a tax bill, you lied to your accountant.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:19:49 2017 No.5372381

>>5371305
>>5371305
Portugal. For now.

But for the love of god keep your mouth shut and the secret to yourself, we are incompetent and slow to move but if the state feels it's missing out on sufficient amounts of money even us lazy fucks will be taxing crypto in no time at all.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:19:56 2017 No.5372386 >>5372127 Trading to a different coin is realizing gains / losses

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:19:58 2017 No.5372388 >>5372351 Welcome to the USA :D >>5372359 You will pay short term capital gains tax (your tax bracket) on 9,000$ US in April 2019

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:20:15 2017 No.5372392 >>5372345 >You just can't buy cars and houses unless you plan on paying taxes I'm sure you can find creative ways to pay with cash.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:20:15 2017 No.5372394 >>5366749 At worst they'll make you pay capital gains tax on the entire 250,000. This tax fud is getting ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:20:40 2017 No.5372405 >>5372318 What if the hotel is worth more than the bumfuck land? What if the property is considered as being worth more than the cornfield?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:21:08 2017 No.5372418 >>5372064 That's what I'm thinking. There must be some way to use Monero to hide everything

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:21:13 2017 No.5372420 File: 1.99 MB, 420x236, 1483389900094.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5366749 feels great living in a slavic hellhole

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:22:28 2017 No.5372456 >>5372288 No one goes to fucking prison for not paying their taxes. What the fuck, stop with this Tyrone meme. You MAY get a letter in the mail a year or so later asking you to pay $X amount. That's it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:22:43 2017 No.5372460 >>5372302 >still a chance I can hide all past transactions write a letter to bitcoin.com to erase u from the blockchain.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:22:55 2017 No.5372465

>>5372345
Would be quite a nice and simple scheme for simple gains.
Still, If you've gained those BTC by trading on already mentioned sites, you still have to pay taxes on those. If you already aquired those btc through means with no records and logs kept, you're pretty much save. But you would then be safe without even washing those btc.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:23:14 2017 No.5372473 >>5372388 so i have to make all my trades by december 31 not to get taxed? this is even trades with crypto i've owned for years? like crypto i bought in 2016 is still taxa ble if i trade in 2018 for shitcoin?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:23:28 2017 No.5372481 >>5367724 Because no government wants their citizens to make it anywhere in life.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:23:46 2017 No.5372489 >>5372473 like-trades after jan1st 2018

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:24:10 2017 No.5372500 >>5371792 what a fucking retard you are hahahahaha

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:24:15 2017 No.5372503 >>5372456 What if we don't get any letters because we sleep in our car?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:24:45 2017 No.5372519 >>5372500 what a pussified cuck you are

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:24:50 2017 No.5372527 >>5366989 Well if you made 250k starting off with just a few thousand dollars worth of coin, it might as well be close to 0 cost basis.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:24:53 2017 No.5372529 >>5372388 Its not short term gain unless he touches it. Otherwise nothing would ever be taxed as long term gain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:25:12 2017 No.5372537 >>5372302 they won the first suit, you think they wont win the second for all other customer data?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:27:06 2017 No.5372590 >>5368741 10 out of 10, the old boomers in congress can't figure Crypto out and instead of banning it they want to make it unprofitable. You can't have your citizens becoming rich and non dependent on state gibs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:27:42 2017 No.5372615 >>5372503 write a letter to irs inquiring por que no letter for your tax evasion

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:28:00 2017 No.5372624 >>5372456 ill take who is al capone for you're a fucking brainlet kike faggot

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:28:15 2017 No.5372629 >>5372489 what are like trades

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:28:41 2017 No.5372644 >>5372537 I know, that's why I need to find a way to hide all my history before that happens

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:28:42 2017 No.5372645 >>5372590 This has to be FUD. The government has shit out to try and get people working and making money because a healthier tax base can better fund the machine. They're not actively trying to keep everyone down. You're being overly paranoid.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:29:19 2017 No.5372662 >>5372624 report your trades like a good goy pussy that you are, meanwhile the rest of us are getting rich.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:29:40 2017 No.5372672 >>5372624 believing in al capone meme. kys

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:29:41 2017 No.5372673 >>5372644 so you just have no concept of blockchain tech at all do you? fucking brainlets

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:30:19 2017 No.5372689
File: 3.42 MB, 300x153, dumb-dumber-s-harry-lloyd-laughing-at-a-burger-joint.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5372318
You would be a great tax accountant. Are you available for hire?

>Show that the tax preparer's error caused the damages that you suffered. If the tax preparer made an error in one part of your tax return and the IRS sanctioned you for an error on another part of the return, then the tax preparer's error did not cause you any damages, and you have no cause of action. You will need to show a direct relationship between the tax preparer's error and the damages that you suffered.

>Calculate the amount of damages that you suffered as a result of the tax preparer's error. Add to this amount the expenses that you incurred in filing the lawsuit because the court may award you these expenses if you win the case.

>Prepare a civil complaint in which you allege all four elements of a standard professional malpractice complaint as outlined above and ask the court for relief. File this complaint with the appropriate state court in your jurisdiction.

Under current law, such trades have been protected under a provision that allows investors to defer capital gains taxes on so-called “like-kind exchanges” -- trades that traditionally have been staples for investors in real estate, art, racehorses and aircraft. The deferral applies when owners of such property swap it for other property of a similar kind, typically within a 180-day period.

‘Unreal’ Property
Increasingly, traders concerned about increased government oversight have sought to move between virtual currencies to take advantage of the like-kind deferral. Now, though, the GOP tax bill would restrict the break to trades of domestic real estate only.

“That’s only for real property now, and ‘crypto’ is about as not real as you can get,” said Friedman’s Kristiansen.

That change goes into effect on Jan. 1. After that, exchanges of cryptocurrencies “would be subject to tax at the time of the exchange,” said Lisa Zarlenga, a tax attorney with Steptoe & Johnson LLP.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:30:21 2017 No.5372692 >>5372644 you can't hide your history if you use an exchange, they make you give your identity to withdraw funds

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:31:08 2017 No.5372714 >>5372662 im not the one posting in a fucking thread asking for tax advice, and you think you will ever be rich, successful, happy or fulfilled in any sense of the word? whatever helps you sleep at night princess

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:32:05 2017 No.5372746 So, since I've never cashed out, will I not have to pay taxes on stuff this year? I've never once gone into fiat. I'm also guessing that I can feel free to cash out under $600 tax-free?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:32:29 2017 No.5372759

>>5372405
Still no tax event, it's a section 1031, it's as simple as I can explain it.
>>5372386
I don't think so. Let me give you an example,

If I have some Stocks with an Adjusted Basis of $50,000, and sell them for $50,000, I have no taxable capital gain. If I then take my $50,000 and buy a stock, and it moons to $100,000 over the course of my holding it, I still have no taxable gain, the gain is "unrealized."

So, when you take a cryptocurrency worth $50,000, and you trade it for the equivalent value of Etheruem, it's a 1 for 1 swap. If that currency then changes value because you predicted it rightly, your Basis stays the same, you will owe tax on that gain, but only when you 'realize' it by converted back to USD, IMO.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:33:08 2017 No.5372780 >>5372714 i'll be rich.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:33:46 2017 No.5372795 >>5372780 keep telling yourself that sweetheart

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:34:53 2017 No.5372825

>>5372689
>Under current law, such trades have been protected under a provision that allows investors to defer capital gains taxes on so-called “like-kind exchanges” -- trades that traditionally have been staples for investors in real estate, art, racehorses and aircraft. The deferral applies when owners of such property swap it for other property of a similar kind, typically within a 180-day period.
Hey wait wait wait. I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere you don't have to pay taxes on real estate if you sell that real estate and buy a more expensive one and you keep doing that until you decide to finally sell the real estate and just take the cash rather than buy another. So taxes are deferred until you cash out.

Okay I finished the rest of your post and see where the problem is. Holy shit this might actually be real.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:36:55 2017 No.5372881
File: 499 KB, 480x228, tumblr_lx9jb1SPMr1qdrpdr.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Actually... you may have just saved me from paying 2018's capital gains tax, just find some schmuck accountant firm. Who is as educated as you. Sue for damages.

>>5371880
>Per tax law, if you exchange one asset for another similar enough asset you do not realize a gain
>>5372375

Your Honor,
The accountant informed me that there was no gains on this transaction. However, I learned after being audited this is not the correct interpretation by the IRS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:37:37 2017 No.5372904 >>5372825 The rule is even looser now, for your primary residence, you won't pay tax on your first $250k, single and $500k if you're married when you sell.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:37:58 2017 No.5372912

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2017/dec/tax-reform-bill-changes-for-businesses-201718071.html
> Like-kind exchanges: Under the act, like-kind exchanges under Sec. 1031 will be limited to exchanges of real property that is not primarily held for sale. This provision generally applies to exchanges completed after Dec. 31, 2017. However, an exception is provided for any exchange if the property disposed of by the taxpayer in the exchange was disposed of on or before Dec. 31, 2017, or the property received by the taxpayer in the exchange was received on or before that date.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:39:58 2017 No.5372959 What is the effective tax rate that you guys have to pay at the end of all this bullshit? God it feels good living in Europe...

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:40:02 2017 No.5372961 >>5372359 By not doing anything with it at all, you are not realizing a gain or a loss. You will pay no taxes/claim no deductions.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:40:45 2017 No.5372983 >>5372912 ok, so with crypto currency, you would pay tax on the difference between the FMV of your current holding and the basis you purchased it for., that would be your new basis in the new currency.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:40:49 2017 No.5372986 >>5372959 TOO MUCH GOD SAVE US

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:41:54 2017 No.5373018 >>5372961 So, buy & HODL is the only viable strategy in 2018? I'll have to find a way to buy shit directly with fiat.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:42:59 2017 No.5373043

>>5372759
>Still no tax event
If it's not a tax event, then why must the event be documented in the first place?

Because it is a tax event. It just happens to have criteria to satisfy to not suffer the actions of that event. If you don't satisfy those criteria... if you are rolling one property over to another and the 45 day or whatever time limit is coming up. And the owner dies on day 43 of the property you were planning to sign for on day 44. You think you can roll that over to another property in 1 day? How about that scenario.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:43:00 2017 No.5373044 >>5373018 Pretty much, unless you don't mind keeping track of and paying taxes on all of your trades.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:46:26 2017 No.5373147 >>5372959 Go see >>5368171

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:47:41 2017 No.5373198 >>5373018 Hold longer than a year, and you'll pay less tax when you trade it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:49:42 2017 No.5373258 >>5373198 Crypto moves way too fast for that shit. I feel half retarded if I don't trade for more than a couple of days and frequently find I have missed something good like selling a peak or buying something good in a dip.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:50:45 2017 No.5373302 >>5372624 They sent Al Capone to prison because they knew he did a bunch of crooked shit, tax evasion is just what they could prove he did

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:50:56 2017 No.5373312

>>5371670
What if we create an entirely offline economy. Totally under the radar. All stealth addressing, unprovable you transferred or recieved anything without your private key. Decentralised peer to peer in-person markets. It will be like bartering - coins for cow's milk at the farmers gate. only you can send your barter coins world wide if need be and they are easier to hide and secure.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:51:28 2017 No.5373330

>>5372881
My point was centering around the fact that if you trade BTC for ETH, you didn't make a gain just from that trade alone, because you trade them 1 for 1 or 1 for 20, equivalent value.

The new rule will mean that when you trade 1 for another, you'll have to pay on that initial base investment.

>>5373258
Yeah, sucks.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:51:51 2017 No.5373334 File: 32 KB, 820x467, 2018-LongTerm-CapitalGainsTaxRates.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5373018 >>5368890 Here's a short term tax % Attached is long term.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:53:11 2017 No.5373377 >>5373312 That would be the only way to bring the system down. Problem is that merchants and vendors would have to agree to it. Can you see the local gas station buying ShitcoinX?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:53:35 2017 No.5373393 >>5372645 Let's tax every crypto to crypto trade. What kind of cuck are you thinking this promotes health in the crypto atmosphere?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:54:16 2017 No.5373432 >>5373330 I concede your point. I think the obvious is this guys point >>5373258 >Crypto moves way too fast for that shit. There is no way the value stays the same between getting a customers fiat to btc/eth to when he gets his shitcoin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:56:02 2017 No.5373488 >>5373432 Forgot. In that transaction the gains my be a tiny fraction. but it is still reportable and required. even it if is a gain of $3.50 in that path to the shitcoin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:57:06 2017 No.5373521 >>5373258 >>5373330 Yes, that's the whole problem - crypto moves too fast for this. It fucks over everyone, but especially savvy investors that are into trading and risk taking.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:58:16 2017 No.5373554

>>5373044
There'll be more options for that next year too, so it won't be that bad.

>>5373198
I'll probably go buy a bunch of ETH and hold it for a year for that purpose.

>>5373334
Thanks. So I only need to make $1.2 million to be a millionaire once all is said and done?

Can I cash out like $599 between now and December 31 tax-free? I think I want to buy myself something nice for Christmas, and I know the IRS will never get involved until a source of income exceeds $600.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:58:21 2017 No.5373558 >>5367809 They only send big names like Wesley snipes to jail to keep the goyim scared into paying. They almost never send an average joe to prison.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 20:58:53 2017 No.5373574 Correct me if I'm wrong, but your capital gains aren't realized until you cash out to USD.

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