I fucked myself over with taxes

[Anonymous No.5324989]

I made huge gains this year thanks to Ethereum and Bitcoin. But I haven't been keeping track of my trades until yesterday and so far I have to pay more than $8000 in short-term capital gains tax (I live in California btw). FUCK

What do you guys think? Should I just sell off all my Litecoins so I can pay off the taxes? This is so fucked

[Anonymous No.5325036]

are you honestly cashing out?
missing out on 10x+ gains by next year

[Anonymous No.5325042]

take the time cool and pick your coins wisely, sonm, mco, drp are good moon missions

[Anonymous No.5325047]

>>5324989
did you talk to one of those crypto tax accountants?

[Anonymous No.5325051]

>>5325036
I'm not cashing out. Converting to any other kind of crypto is considered a taxable event

[Anonymous No.5325062]

>>5325042
KILL YOURSELF

[Anonymous No.5325068]

Yes sell and pay them asap

[Anonymous No.5325074]

>>5325051
>land of the free

[Anonymous No.5325075]

>>5325047
Not yet, do you think it's worth it?

[Anonymous No.5325097]

>>5325051
uhm no it's not LMAO

[Anonymous No.5325110]

>>5324989
Pay your taxes noob.

[Anonymous No.5325126]

>>5325075
>pay $8k in taxes so far
>pay couple hundred for professional help
>is it worth it?

[Anonymous No.5325132]

>>5325051
It’s actually not, you total fucking retard. Only when you cash out.

[Anonymous No.5325134]

>>5324989
Yes goy give your reptile overlords their cut

[Anonymous No.5325136]

>>5324989
>living in Commiefornia

hahah you know all that money is going to ngs and beaners

[Anonymous No.5325146]

>>5325097
Yes it is, idk how they plan on enforcing it though. Is the government going to start accepting crypto for payment in taxes? Because I'm not cashing out to their fiat nigger money.

[Anonymous No.5325160]

Good job /u/atarian

[Anonymous No.5325178]

>>5325097
>>5325132
yes it is. cryptos are not covered by like-kind exchanges

[Anonymous No.5325184]

>>5325051
If you have a coinbase/gdax account and sell your crypto and have cash in the account it is taxable!

If you convert to different coins it is not taxable, but you have to keep track of your tax basis. Honestly you want to do this anyway, otherwise you don't even know if you are making any money.

[Anonymous No.5325199]

>>5325097
>>5325132
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/tax-free-bitcoin-to-ether-trading-in-u-s-to-end-under-gop-plan
Supposedly it is. My question is: Say I don't cash out. Do they have any way of knowing?

[Anonymous No.5325203]

>>5325132
wrong. in america every trade is taxable. have fun getting dry ass raped by uncle sam.

[Anonymous No.5325219]

so the government basically is forcing you to cash out every year?

what's the time frame? Like, if the coin goes from 400 to 700 then back to 400 all in the one financial year, do you have to pay taxes?

[Anonymous No.5325220]

>>5325146
they can't enforce

also, i fully expect most of this bullshit to be challenged in court anyway

"commodity" kek. It's pretty much the opposite of a commodity

[Anonymous No.5325246]

>>5325184
what if you sell to fiat and buy crypto with it? is it still taxable?

[Anonymous No.5325248]

>>5325220
How do miners calculate their gains if they don’t sell?

[Anonymous No.5325255]

>>5325219
no, only if you trade it or sell it, not hodling

[Anonymous No.5325298]

>>5325248
miners might be under different rules, but for regular people selling or trading is the event that causes taxation.

Miners may have to pay taxes even on unsold btc, I'm not sure

[Anonymous No.5325308]

>>5324989
yeah man, you should have kept track of that better. you might get penalties if you needed to pay the estimated taxes per quarter too. at this point you really need to hire a CPA that can sort you out, unless you're really confident in your accounting abilities and know how to handle having shitty records.

I had to pay $4k estimated for Q3, but probably won't end up needing to pay estimated for Q4.

[Anonymous No.5325320]

>>5325246
Yes, right now as soon as their is cash in your account it is taxable.

[Anonymous No.5325354]

>>5324989
DONT PAY THE TAXES YOU NEANDERTHAL, it's as easy as setting up a shell corporation in the caymans and paying yourself wages, then the company donates enough to your favorite charity to never have to pay taxes in the first place

[Anonymous No.5325366]

>US govt wants its cut
>try to enforce every trade being taxed, even if crypto-to-crypto
>NEETs on suicide watch, bargain with govt that theyll pay taxes but they cannot currently cash out
>govt agrees, IRS starts accepting bitcoin cash and dogecoin for capital gains taxes
>/biz/ and /d/ ironically crash both alts and the IRS loses billions
>trump personally executes multiple auditors and an unlucky gardener

[Anonymous No.5325390]

>>5324989
>second bill in works says cryptocurrency is not a legal currency or investment
>9% sales tax on each trade
>absolute state of burgerland
Enjoy your taxes.

[Anonymous No.5325398]

>>5325248
>>5325298
I believe they need to record the market value of what they mine as income, so they are paying income tax on that and it goes towards your AGI just like gains, then when you sell it it's like a normal capital asset sale, the cost basis would be the market value of when it was mined (that might be $0 too).

[Anonymous No.5325401]

>>5324989
I’m in the exact same boat. Cashed out like 50k (live in Los Angeles)

A) could have cashed out like 100k if I just fucking waited 2 more weeks while BTC went to 19k
B) just wanted to feel comfy with $$ in account. But once I did research on short term capital gains I realized I owe the IRS so much and Coinbase has my records so I gotta pay REEEEEE

[Anonymous No.5325402]

>>5325255
If you sell it for another crypto.

Buy a bitcoin, sell bitcoin for altcoin, then if altcoin goes up you have to pay cash to the government. Cash you don't have.

[Anonymous No.5325405]

>>5325146
>the government accepting crypto as tax payment

[Anonymous No.5325429]

>>5325320
FUCK

[Anonymous No.5325441]

>>5325062
I'm actually heavily invested in SONM because I think it's a really solid project and this dude even pisses me off. Giving my coin a bad name with his pajeet-tier shilling in every fucking thread.

[Anonymous No.5325470]

>>5325429
Why is this a surprise?
Stock market works the exact same way. You buy a stock, sell it, buy another stock. It doesn't matter that you bought another stock, you had cash in your account.

[Anonymous No.5325475]

>>5325401
you could've evaded all of this, there are loopholes

[Anonymous No.5325479]

>>5325220
Not only that but lets be honest. Paying taxes on crypto means you are giving up a FUCKING LOT MORE of your money than what taxes are meant to take.

If you end up having crypto that is worth a lot and you are forced to cash some of that out you get hit again with taxes for cashing out.

Then on top of that I am now losing out on the opportunity cost of the coins I was forced to sell. Which could end up being millions of fucking dollars in a year.

The IRS is supposed to take a cut of your earns. They cannot be allowed to fucking take millions of potential dollars from me. WTF...

[Anonymous No.5325485]

>>5325390
>9% sales tax on each trade

Surely this won't cause upheaval.

[Anonymous No.5325498]

Does Binance send your records to the government like Coinbase does?

[Anonymous No.5325507]

if you're using a foreign exchange and you don't pull back into coinbase/gdax until cashout and you pull back in the same currency (btc out, btc in), then you're looking at max 23% on the coinbase transactions and differential between what went out and what came back in right?

[Anonymous No.5325519]

>>5325498
they probably sell it to google

[Anonymous No.5325543]

>>5325470
but it's not "cash" while it's in your "cash account" on coinbase, is it? It's not cashed out until you then put it in your bank account.

[Anonymous No.5325550]

>>5325475
How? Bitcoin atms? You can’t deposit more than 10k cash at a time it triggers an SAR.

[Anonymous No.5325552]

>>5325498
coinbase only sent 14,000 people's info to the irs, only customers who bought or sold 20K +

[Anonymous No.5325561]

>>5325543
>but it's not "cash" while it's in your "cash account" on coinbase, is it? It's not cashed out until you then put it in your bank account.

Yes, it is cash in your coinbase account!!!

[Anonymous No.5325601]

>>5325479
>yo dawg I heard you like taxes, so I put taxes in your taxes so you can pay taxes on your taxes while you're paying taxes

[Anonymous No.5325628]

this is why the government will never shut down crypto. this is a fucking tax goldmine

[Anonymous No.5325630]

>>5325552

Get working on those puppet accounts, boys.

[Anonymous No.5325632]

>>5325552
This right here.

I know the banks usually report to the IRS when the transaction is $10,000 or more. Regardless, OP pay your fucking taxes. Trust me jail isn't a fun time.

[Anonymous No.5325636]

>>5325366
golden dubs has spoke

[Anonymous No.5325653]

>>5325390
AAAAHHH FUCK

why can't burgerland be like the fucking aussies where there is only capital gains tax on what you cash out?

[Anonymous No.5325671]

>>5325199
Dude, they passed the GOP tax plan last Friday

[Anonymous No.5325676]

life is a scam

i have more than 600.000€ and no i dont know what to do since it's a crime already

[Anonymous No.5325682]

Is binance still doing 'maintenance' on xmr wallet?

[Anonymous No.5325683]

>>5325203

Uncle Sam can suck my boi pussy, cause I ain't cashing out.

[Anonymous No.5325699]

>>5325543
you are trying to rationalize it in terms of what's physically there - that's not the case.

the act of making a sale is the taxable event, that's all that matters. they don't care where the money is, or if it's money at all. property to property is fair game too, and you still are going to have to pay them in cash on the gain, even if you didn't transact any cash at all.

and yes - coin to coin trades count as property to property. the same as trading silver for gold, it's always been taxable.

[Anonymous No.5325718]

>>5324989
How do they know how much you have? Is the IRS keeping tabs of all the trades on your exchange account?

[Anonymous No.5325722]

>>5325676

Move to Thailand or something, disregard laws.

[Anonymous No.5325726]

>>5325632
Dude no one goes to jail for forgetting to pay some taxes

[Anonymous No.5325729]

>>5325671
Do you mean yesterday?
Also not signed by the president yet.

[Anonymous No.5325738]

>>5325699
this is even worse than what people in this thread are saying.. that it's only taxable if you convert to fiat. i will likely owe more than $10k on taxes

[Anonymous No.5325743]

>>5325601
FUCK MAN!! FUCKING BULLSHIT!!

Yo dawg I heard you like money so I put money in your money so you can pay taxes while you pay taxes.

Guys this is fucked. No I am flat out saying, even as someone who is ok with paying taxes, THIS IS FUCKING UNFAIR and its insane what they are going to try and establish.

I am starting to think I will end up owing more than I fucking made at this rate. lol

[Anonymous No.5325752]

>>5325390
Fuck this. I'm holding until I die. If I can't keep it, then the gov doesn't get any either.

[Anonymous No.5325756]

>>5325405
cant wait for freedombux backed by the fed.

[Anonymous No.5325779]

>>5325051
How do expect them to catch you in the act

[Anonymous No.5325799]

>>5325738
all sales are taxable events because we need to support the welfare state. My eth gains are going to be going to some beaner with an anchor baby who doesn't even speak english.

[Anonymous No.5325801]

>>5325485

Not when only 1%, if that, of the population dabs in crypto.

[Anonymous No.5325803]

>>5325146
It's your responsibility to get the money together by selling your crypto, they don't give a fuck if that inconveniences you.
The real issue is that they can't really prove you traded crypto until you finally do cash out to fiat, they don't know what happens on every shit exchange that may not even be attached to your name. But at the end when you try to cash out 50x more bitcoin then you bought, they'll be asking where it came from, and that's when they'll catch the old trades you didn't reveal or pay tax on.

[Anonymous No.5325833]

>>5325726
uhm, al capone?

[Anonymous No.5325845]

>>5325726
Yeah, they just have to pay double what was owed in tax now, due to (((interest))) on their (((debt))).

[Anonymous No.5325846]

>>5325726
>people dont go to jail for not paying taxes
That just made my day.

Then again wage garnishment (if OP has a job), constant bullshit harassment. Also other 3 letter agencies looking into you.

I prefer not to deal with the feds much.

[Anonymous No.5325863]

>>5325743

This is why you don't cash out.

[Anonymous No.5325877]

>>5325718
even if they aren't literally NSA monitoring your account right now, you want a lambo some day right?
Once you reach lamboland (and if you're not trying to, why even bother?), you better bet your ass that even one single fuck up in our trade history will have you kissing your comfy neet life goodbye.

[Anonymous No.5325890]

>>5325051
Based taxman putting an end to the shitcoins

[Anonymous No.5325901]

just buy truckloads of cash off the darkweb and use it for any small purchases for the rest of your life, and only report your actual wage to the irs

[Anonymous No.5325927]

>>5325632
>OP pay your fucking taxes
hardly anybody even knows what they actually have to pay

[Anonymous No.5325938]

>>5325726
We have a ton of IRS shills here basically telling us that you go to jail and fucking rot if you mess up on reporting one USD worth of crypto.

But I might suggest you idiots try a better strategy or you may very well cause panic that is not productive. There needs to be some degree of sanity to this shit. You cant hit lower class people with 90% taxes even if you think they are being a little uppity.

That may not end well for everyone! I want to hear "Nah the IRS are a just worried about the big fish. if you ain't rolling a absurd gains you just don't bother to report it."

[Anonymous No.5325943]

>>5325738
it's always been like that, but it especially is now that they clarified the like kind exchange rule
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/tax-free-bitcoin-to-ether-trading-in-u-s-to-end-under-gop-plan

people just didn't want to face the truth, still don't. they are going to be fucked when they go to fill out their tax forms and find that none of their buy/sell totals match because they decided to ignore all the records in between. so then they'll have to go back and do it properly, or fudge the numbers and commit tax fraud.

[Anonymous No.5325944]

>>5325901
This
Can't you already buy prepaid cards on the darkweb

[Anonymous No.5325977]

>>5325676
wait for tenx

[Anonymous No.5325978]

>>5325628
>the government will never shut down crypto. this is a fucking tax goldmine

they're pissed because like only 2% pay taxes.

[Anonymous No.5325995]

How about buying gold with bitcoin, then selling the gold? Or will the IRS cry about tax evasion?

[Anonymous No.5326003]

>>5325799
Why do we need a welfare state when crypto even fucking exists anymore? Crypto + maybe a much simpler UBI and you are done.

[Anonymous No.5326010]

>>5325901

Xfer of cash through post office is a retarded idea.

[Anonymous No.5326018]

You get taxed on the total profit you take out, from what you you put in. Any other interpretation you read on this god forsaken board is pure FUD or else just idiots spouting off shit they don't know what they're talking about. End of story. There's no secret hidden ballooning tax that's going take all your money.

[Anonymous No.5326021]

>>5325927
Cointracking.info

Most exchanges will allow you to export your transaction history. Shit they even convert to IRS forms.

Or you could read the capital gains tax page on the irs website.

[Anonymous No.5326050]

>>5325550
withdraw from atm, money orders for rent/mortgage

[Anonymous No.5326051]

>buy 10k trx
>wait for trx $50
>get tenx card
>use pajeet coin as visa
>set up shell in thailand & pay yourself wages
>shell contributes to charity, evading taxes
>no taxes forever, u made it boys

[Anonymous No.5326112]

>>5325938
Yeah, but like maybe a 15-85 split poor to rich? The top 1% of earners pay 90% of the taxes, there's literally no incentive to work hard

[Anonymous No.5326216]

>>5324989

Why do we have these idiotic circle-jerk tax threads every day? This is all you need to know:

1) Only your gains are taxed, and according to your income bracket, and your gains are offset by your losses, so fucking relax. Unless you spent all of your net gains like an idiot you should have plenty left over to pay taxes.

2) Just hire an accountant.

3) The new tax bill only proves that for previous years crypto-to-crypto trades weren't taxable.

4) Just hire an accountant, they know all the tricks. Many CPAs are saying crypto-to-crypto trades aren't taxable, especially if its for a shitcoin that isn't directly tradable for FIAT. And who knows what other loopholes they'll have for you? It's their fucking job to save your money, hire one.

[Anonymous No.5326250]

>>5326018
you are taxed when you trade crypto to crypto, so if I make $15,000 off of bitcoin and then put it in an alt, they tax you on the 15k as income even if all of your money is in crypto. The opportunity cost is insane. That 15k could easily be worth 50k or more 2 months from now.

[Anonymous No.5326266]

>>5326018
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/tax-free-bitcoin-to-ether-trading-in-u-s-to-end-under-gop-plan

this was already required but it's set in stone now, but I know you're too much of a faggot to ever admit you're wrong, so whatever.

[Anonymous No.5326276]

>>5325877
Such a load of bullshit, why the fuck should people have to keep a record of every little single transaction, all that should matter is cash out day. I.e. someone started with $1000 and made $200K, the cartel can get their sweet 30% cut for doing fuck all except threatening everyone reeeeeeeeee

[Anonymous No.5326288]

>>5325943
they can't arrest and audit us all. do you smell it guys? We're fucking up the traditional way of doing things. It's working, they don't want to admit it...but it's working.

[Anonymous No.5326390]

>>5326288
well once you hit the 200k, 400k brackets you are going to get audited if you're cashing out huge sums, so some of us don't have a choice.

the funny part is we're paying less taxes on long term gains than on regular paychecks, and the same tax on short term gains as regular paychecks, and doing way less work in the process. but for some reason biz always loses its shit and thinks they are paying extra for capital gains, I just don't get it.

[Anonymous No.5326393]

>>5326250
That is incorrect. That's the misconception that's spread around in these threads. You get taxed if make profit on that trade. You get taxed on the PROFIT. End of fucking story. The net result of this, is that whatever profit you've made in crypto, you have to pay tax. Simple. There's no big secret.

[Anonymous No.5326403]

>>5326288

This.

Plus I mean, the dark net does exist.

[Anonymous No.5326408]

>>5326288
>they can't arrest and audit us all
Thinking like this is a mistake

[Anonymous No.5326420]

fuck it i'm selling all my litecoins. it will cover my $8000 tax bill plus the $3000 tax bill for litecoins. FML

[Anonymous No.5326444]

>>5326018
This would be perfect as I would go right ahead to report my cashing out and be done with it. I might just try this first and if it doesn't work out then commit suicide or something.

I seriously have a feeling that if you just report when you cash out you will be fucking FINE. All this bullshit outside of that is IRS shills fucking with us hoping we pay more than we actually owe.

How the fuck can any of this shit make sense keeping track of trades every fucking day. And this shit is so easy to get into, they are going to go insane enforcing this shit seriously.

Also what about items in video games? I mean if I owe taxes on my crypto, why not my CS:GO dragonlore? Huh motherfuckers? Don't play world of warcraft or its time to fucking pay taxes on your damn gold earnings!

The only fucking sane option is paying when you convert to fiat. Otherwise this shit is a dead end rabbits hole where 14 year olds go to jail for tax evasion. FUCK THAT, its not going to happen.

[Anonymous No.5326520]

How the fuck are you idiots freaking out about this shit

It's not even fucking possible to rack up more taxes than you can pay for even if you make a million trades

[Anonymous No.5326583]

>>5326266
So as of right now if we cash out we just have to pay taxes on the total gains from investment?
Next year you have to pay on every transaction?
Answer fast I'm ready to go all out right now

[Anonymous No.5326634]

>>5326393
yes, you do get taxed on only the profit. But lets say its tax season, and you don't want to trade your request network coins for shitty usd because you know it will be $1 eoy of 2018 and you don't have enough money to cover the cost of the original trade of the 15k in bitcoin. you still have to pay the tax. That is an insane oppourtunity tax down the road because the 5k I pay in takes could be 10 or 15 if I keep it in the market. stocks don't work like that, you can't trade stocks for other stocks and you only pay tax when you "cash out". the reason the ruling is so gay is because its being regulated as a commodity WHEN ITS FUCKING NOT, its a currency.

[Anonymous No.5326659]

>>5326266
I suppose you've even read the article? It clearly says that they're trying to close a loophole that people were using to avoid paying capital gains tax. Look at the term: capital GAINS tax. It's not a fucking sales tax, that's applied to every transaction no matter what, you stupid mong. If you made profit on the transaction, you pay tax on the PROFIT. You can also deduct loses, so the net result is that you fucking pay you tax on whatever net gains you make. That's it.

[Anonymous No.5326665]

>>5326390
the only actual problem is that exchanging crypto is a taxable event that causes gains to be realized, so you've just traded monopoly money for pokedollars but now owe real money on April 15, which puts you in a very precarious situation especially if your pokebux tank and are worthless by then

[Anonymous No.5326714]

>>5326665
>is a taxable event that causes gains to be realized, so you've just traded monopoly money for pokedollars but now owe real money on April 15
Please tell me how the IRS will value a bitcoin

[Anonymous No.5326715]

>>5326634
awww cry me a fucking river why don't you.

[Anonymous No.5326719]

>>5326583
no, you have always had to report all transactions, not just cash outs. even if you tried claiming 1031 exchanges for every single fucking coin to coin trade (which is what you'd have to do), they would never accept it and likely audit you instantly.

[Anonymous No.5326744]

>>5326520
math is not a /biz/ strong suit.

[Anonymous No.5326750]

>>5326665
Yeah which is fucked, the only tax should be a percentage of your withdrawal to fiat

[Anonymous No.5326784]

>>5325178
Dude just shut the fuck up, the irs and sec have to make rules for that.

[Anonymous No.5326809]

>>5326250
There’s just no FUCKING way they can track all this, especially with all the hundreds of shitcoin transactions

[Anonymous No.5326826]

>5326634
SHUT THE FUCK UP KIKE

[Anonymous No.5326852]

>>5326659
what the fuck are you going on about. the moral of the story is 1031s only being valid on real property is in writing now, that's it. that means traders can't defer the tax on their coin to coin trades to try and avoid short term gains. you aren't making any sense.

[Anonymous No.5326888]

>>5326809
Yep. They're going to quickly realize how unenforceable it is.
Taxes upon cashing out is the only sane solution.

[Anonymous No.5326896]

>>5326809
they don't need to. some day you're going to withdrawal coins to convert to fiat that came out of thin air, how did those appear?

[Anonymous No.5326906]

If I only made 2 grand total, will this even make a fucking difference for me?

[Anonymous No.5326908]

>>5326715
Ok, lets play with some bigger numbers. You have 200k in crypto from some insane coin purchase you made, but you are a jobless neet living in your parents basement. You were going to use these coins to go all in on a low value shitcoin under 10 cents, but the irs comes in and makes you pay taxes on the 200k. suddenly, the next week this coin has surged 1000% (trx niggas be like) and you could have made 2 million but you made less.

[Anonymous No.5326909]

>>5326665
no, because you can deduct your losses, and why are you still holding those shitpokebucks bags anyway anon?

[Anonymous No.5326917]

Anons you can’t be this dumb?

Transfer all coins into one coin anything
>transfer to a cold storage
>find exchange create account
>send to new exchange
>hold it there
>cash out

Say it was gifted to you and you held it. How will they prove it?

[Anonymous No.5326944]

>>5326888
Holy fuck
>real estate blockchain
>trading houses in real time
>only cash out on the gains

[Anonymous No.5326947]

>>5325722
>move to Thailand or something, disregard laws

let me know how Thai prison works out for you

[Anonymous No.5326958]

>>5326917
Or buy cash on deep web just don’t get murderd raped or robbed, or all three at the same time.

[Anonymous No.5326968]

My Fiances Dad is a CPA and financial lawyer. He told me there is no tax until you cash out to fiat. Im going to take his word over literal autistic spergs on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.5326983]

>>5326968
enjoy going to jail with your dad. LOL

[Anonymous No.5327028]

>>5326908
you only owe tax when you sell, so assuming you sold the 200k and owed tax, you'd have the money to pay for it. if you forgot to set aside money for the sales you made, and spent the 200k on another buy, that's your own damn fault.

[Anonymous No.5327035]

>>5326896
You pay capital gains on the total amount. They collect their money and we’re good. Like to like is insane. The normies at the IRS are going to lose their shit when they’re looking through stacks of Bittrex orders, and having to convert Satoshis etc.

Honestly these boomers don’t know how to deal with it

[Anonymous No.5327050]

>>5326908
once again, boo hoo hoo. This is all gravy here we're talking about. Bunch of ungrateful scrooges around here lol.

[Anonymous No.5327080]

>>5325729
Like the president isn't going to sign off on the tax plan

[Anonymous No.5327082]

>transfer bitcoin to exchange, get taxed
>make trades on the platform, not actually moving crypto between wallets, just losing and gaining exchange-issued credit
Would the second event be taxable?

[Anonymous No.5327135]

>>5326917
Any exchange that you can cash out (I.e coinbase), you have to provide your info. They will send those docs to the IRS.

IRS will review it and probe you for that money. Sure with Binance you don’t need verification but you can’t cash out on it

[Anonymous No.5327145]

>>5327082
>transfer bitcoin to exchange, get taxed
this isn't taxable, the fee will be, but the transfer was just a transfer

>make trades on the platform, not actually moving crypto between wallets, just losing and gaining exchange-issued credit
the exchange is a money transmitter and is executing trades for you, they're taxable just like if you were trading them on a street corner.

[Anonymous No.5327146]

What if you just buy things with your crypto and not use cash?

[Anonymous No.5327159]

>>5326888
they aren't going to realize shit

the government is literally baby boomers that are counting the minutes until their next nap


no one should really be worried about anything, and if shit goes down, A JURY OF YOUR PEERS has to put you in jail

FIGHT THEM

[Anonymous No.5327166]

>>5327028
yes, but OPPORTUNITY COST NIGGA.
You end up paying 90k on taxes that were supposed to be 40k.

[Anonymous No.5327178]

You guys are fucking retarded, just use bitcoin.tax and import all your trades from the exchanges.

Also,
>implying that you're going to be taxed on unrealized gains
>IRS boomers are going to lose their shit trying to determine the net gain of converting BTC to DOGE to ETH to LTC to XRP to TRX

[Anonymous No.5327185]

>>5327080
Did I say he isn't?
I just said he didn't yet.

[Anonymous No.5327199]

>>5325683
trade a hotdog for 2 apples
thats a taxable event
trade a buttcoin for a million litecoins
thats a taxable event

[Anonymous No.5327222]

>>5327146
technically the purchase is a taxable event

[Anonymous No.5327223]

>>5324989
Dont be selfish OP.
José needs his welfare check. He's got 7 kids!

[Anonymous No.5327268]

>>5327178
>IRS boomers are going to lose their shit trying to determine the net gain of converting BTC to DOGE to ETH to LTC to XRP to TRX
this is the one thing about all this that makes me smile

[Anonymous No.5327279]

>>5327145
>the exchange is a money transmitter
Cryptos are not money, it's more like an automated trading bazaar

Leave your fiat at the door

[Anonymous No.5327307]

>>5327223
he also doesn't have a job or a us citizenship

[Anonymous No.5327339]

>>5327279
well if you want to argue semantics with the IRS over the thousands of dollars you potentially owe them, good luck anon.

[Anonymous No.5327343]

>>5327222
Wouldn't that be on the shops end though? That's why there is sales tax

[Anonymous No.5327374]

>>5327339
>implying I've made money

[Anonymous No.5327462]

>>5327178
Obligatory image for you dumbfucks as well. Do the majority of those in crypto not know how this shit works? It's simple market management. This thread has convinced me that the majority of the people hopping into crypto didn't do their fucking research before "HURR DURR BTC IS MOONING, BETTER BUY IN"

The days of the deep web crypto are no more idiots. Just watch your ass and stop thinking that you're seriously going to get away with pulling a fast one on the IRS.

[Anonymous No.5327491]

>>5324989
honest question from a fellow in Texas.. why does the government care what I do with my $100 in bitcoins? like, theoretically how would they even know I made $50?

[Anonymous No.5327516]

>>5324989
Convert into LINK or XLM. For taxes, just download your trade, withdraw/ depost history and use bitcoin.tax. It will do the capital gains for you

Thank me later anon. No need to worry
LTC
LeeMeRAY5BahPAEazAWBbrfnTepvRFrsSh

[Anonymous No.5327552]

>>5326520

it is if you account for late penalties.

[Anonymous No.5327656]

>>5327491
They don't until you
1) Cash out and they see that you put in less than you took out, like money appeared out of nowhere. Which is not that bad because you'll just tax your gains (-$100 to buy, +$150 to sell, $50 is taxable, rates depending on short- or long-term gains, aka whether you held for a year+)
2) You get CONBASED and the exchange sucks the IRS' dick and sends all trading records to them (highly unlikely unless you're a whale pushing huge amounts)

If anyone gets arrested for tax evasion for not reporting their crypto TRADES, from core to alt or between alts and/or back to core, I will McAfee and eat my own dick. Screencap this.

[Anonymous No.5327678]

>>5327462
I have a feeling we're all wagecucks with some disposable income for internet money, anon

[Anonymous No.5327684]

>>5327491
they don't care, at all. you're being taxed on capital asset property value gains. that's the only thing they care about.

[Anonymous No.5327686]

>>5324989
>Has to pay taxes on sold crypto
>Wants to sell more coins to pay off taxes

LOLOLOLOOLOLOLLLLLL

THE STATE OF /BIZ/

[Anonymous No.5327719]

>>5327552
lma0 just don't be late

[Anonymous No.5327725]

>>5327145
>they're taxable just like if you were trading them on a street corner.
It's not really similar. I'm putting my money into a wallet they don't own, and it stays there regardless of whether or not I make trades on-platform. The analogue would be me trading BTC for ETH of equal value on bitcointalk or something.

[Anonymous No.5327726]

1. Hire a lawyer
2. Get the lawyer to goto a proper accountancy firm - like BDO or big firm
3. Make a declaration and suck it up - it will be taxed as income, so you'll be down 60%

[Anonymous No.5327729]

>pre-2017
>poor wagie ragie, work hard for Mr. Goldberg today, I'm counting on you to pay my neetbux
>post-2017
>FUCK TAXES, FUCK THE IRS, THEY CAN'T CATCH ALL OF US

[Anonymous No.5327787]

>>5327725
it doesn't even matter. you're not going to rationalize your way out of paying taxes. go ahead and try though, tell us how it goes.

[Anonymous No.5327881]

>>5327678
Which is fine. Hell, I'm a wagecuck too, just because I'm making returns on my crypto doesn't mean I can't work a full-time job either as a supplement. Provided you don't cash out and magically pull money out of thin air, the government won't question if you put $1k in crypto every month and write it off as a gift. The issue arises when you have to tax your REALIZED gains. Because coins are liquid and the price is not static like fiat, taxing unrealized gains would be impossible for them to do. What, are they going to try and take 9% of my DOGE as income tax?

[Anonymous No.5327895]

>>5325184
This is so wrong though. They even are passing a bill right now to explicitly say that crypto to crypto is a taxable event.

https://www.ethnews.com/tax-cut-bill-to-require-taxation-of-cryptocurrency-trades-in-us

[Anonymous No.5327918]

>>5327787
I'm not really doing that at all, just asking a question, and I got a garbage answer, so I called it out. I'm wondering if I should alter my trade frequency based on this.

[Anonymous No.5328026]

>>5325402
How fucking stupid are you?

It's the realized gain at the time of the trade.

Like you buy BTC it goes 100% gains. You trade for alt. Now you owe 30 percent of the 100 percent gain.

[Anonymous No.5328052]

>>5327491
If its on the exchange, all they have to do is subpoena coinbase/bittrex/whoever for your records. If its in a wallet its harder, but not impossible for them to figure out.

[Anonymous No.5328059]

Just go on localbitcoins and CASH out, if you know what I mean.

[Anonymous No.5328061]

>>5327918
it's a garbage question and the answer is you can't rationalize your way out of paying taxes. it literally does not matter what events took place leading up to and following a sale you make. it does not matter where the money was or how it moved. the only thing that matters is your cost basis and acquired date, and your net proceeds. that's all they care about.

[Anonymous No.5328122]

>>5328052
Right, so what I'm doing is basically going on localbitcoins, finding some dude who wants to trade gift cards or cash for bitcoin and boom, nobody will ever know such a transaction occurred. What's so hard about that? I mean, it's not like you're gonna go to jail if you didn't report capital gains on $50 profit

[Anonymous No.5328182]

So my bank records of what goes in/out of Coinbase/GDAX should be sufficient?

[Anonymous No.5328219]

ok but why do they gotta make it so complicated

[Anonymous No.5328267]

>>5328182
read this then ask yourself that again

https://bitcoin.tax/faq

[Anonymous No.5328290]

>>5328061
>only thing that matters is your cost basis and acquired date, and your net proceeds
This is the answer I was looking for. Oddly enough it contradicts your first reply.

[Anonymous No.5328380]

>>5328290
it doesn't. all i said is that it doesn't matter where the trade took place.

[Anonymous No.5328517]

>>5327343
No, because you are realizing income with the transaction. You might have only put $5 into bitcoin in 2010, but because you have made gains, the value of your "$5" has increased drastically and the gobbernmint wants their slice of the pie.

[Anonymous No.5328639]

>>5327516
>shilling link
>e-begging

[Anonymous No.5328643]

If I mine crypto along with trade, how would I report those earnings? Would they just be income? But then I trade for capital gains

[Anonymous No.5328678]

>>5328380
The question was whether or not it counts as a trade if no crypto is actually moving between wallets, and it stays in the ownership of the exchange.

[Anonymous No.5328686]

>>5328517
I can see that for people who've made thousands of dollars in bitcoin, but if you only made barely a hundred, the chances of the government finding that are pretty slim, no? I mean, you could just easily claim ignorance, I can't imagine the feds coming down and arresting you for not paying them 20 bucks

[Anonymous No.5328783]

>>5328686
This.

[Anonymous No.5328888]

>>5328686
true, but at what point is enough enough? $1000? $5000? 10k, 20k?

[Anonymous No.5328891]

> tfw go to cointracking and learn that I owe $8.71 in taxes
HELP
THEY'RE GOING GIT ME

[Anonymous No.5328903]

Normies are literally going out of their ways to buy this shit. Get rekt, BZC is the only one they'll buy for fun.

[Anonymous No.5329184]

>>5328888
>>5328783
I just read through the tax code regarding bitcoin and as far as I can tell the best way to do this is as follows:
>Claire earns $30,000/year. She bought 1 Bitcoin for $5 on in September 2012 and sells it on November 29th, 2013 for $1,000. The cost of the coin was $5 with a 0.5% fee, $5.03. The sale income also had a 0.5% transaction fee, so was $995. Her capital gain was $989.97. Since she owned the coin for more than a year, she reports long term capital gains on her tax return the following year. Claire's ordinary tax rate is 15%, so her capital gains tax rate is 0%. She pays no taxes on the sale of her Bitcoin.

basically, hodl your coins each year and only take out the coins after you hold them for a year at 0% rate. problem solved.

[Anonymous No.5329290]

>>5329184
Thanks for this. Looks like I'll snag one of those hardware wallets

[Anonymous No.5329715]

>>5327374

Hey! I was there for that!

[Anonymous No.5330025]

>>5327268
I kind of imagine people just going nah fuck that, how much did you cash out? ok. lol

[Anonymous No.5330052]

so i just calculated my total taxes.. it's around $67,000. FML

[Anonymous No.5330135]

If it's per transaction/trade, I can't imagine how arb or day traders feel.

[Anonymous No.5330240]

>>5327491
exchanges like coinbase are giving our transactions over to the IRS. they don't care if you're less than 20k gains though

[Anonymous No.5330277]

>>5329715
hey I was the guy that called the chart a thumbs up!

[Anonymous No.5330314]

>>5326784
No they don't. They just audit you and take you to tax court. Its exactly what they did with the people who tried to use like kind on silver to gold exchanges.

[Anonymous No.5330383]

>>5325479
How the fuck do you think the country pays for the airforce, army, government, roads, bridges, protection from the bull, etc, you dumbass

[Anonymous No.5330394]

>>5325199
jesus fuck was every single fucking republican gang raped as children by their father and his male friends? like what in the actual fuck is their issue

[Anonymous No.5330486]

DO NOT PAY TAXES ON CRYPTO
THESE THREADS ARE IRS SHILL THREADS SPREADING FUD

DO NOT PAY TAXES ON CRYPTO DO NOT GIVE THE IRS A CENT

[Anonymous No.5330542]

>>5330486
all your bros over at /r9k/ are counting on you

[Anonymous No.5330676]

Canuckistan

Capital Gains. When you hold stock or mutual funds in a non-registered account, you only have to pay tax when you sell your investments & only 50% of gainz are taxable.

Thus grow my portfolio to 3million and go live in ecuador fuck u Trudeau u fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.5330696]

So it sounds like the us government incentives rich nerds to abandon citizenship
This should go over well

[Anonymous No.5331137]

>>5327895
>https://www.ethnews.com/tax-cut-bill-to-require-taxation-of-cryptocurrency-trades-in-us

This will kill alts.

[Anonymous No.5331169]

>>5330696
This.

>gain citizenship in tax-free country
>cash out and buy shit
>marry fellow /biz/bro to regain citizenship?
>/biz/bro renounces citizenship
>divorce and repeat

[Anonymous No.5331434]

>>5331137
what is in there was already the case, they are just making sure you autists understand

[Anonymous No.5331498]

>>5329184

That's only if:

>Claire's ordinary tax rate is 15%

That's welfare-tier, anon

[Anonymous No.5331499]

Ok the one thing I don't understand, is if I trade on Bittrex lets say. I don't own the private keys. They do. So techincally, theyre not my coins. What if I forget my private key. Now I "lost" those funds. And third, What if I stumble upon a bitcoin wallet, who technically owns it?

[Anonymous No.5331671]

>>5331498
Lots of NEETs here that have no regular income and could consistently pull $48k out of longterm gains to avoid tax entirely.

[Anonymous No.5331802]

>>5327050
jesus christ you could not sounds more like a middle class cuck if you tried. this anon makes some valid points.

[Anonymous No.5332227]

>>5331169
Eh id never return to the US
If they want to flood the country with sponges while stifling the productive members, they can fuck right off