/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.53041]

Can someone please explain to me what bit coins are all about? Are they genuinely a new currency that might rival existing forms of currency, or are they just an anomaly that'll fade in due time?

[Anonymous No.53073]

There only worth was in being able to buy illegal shit discreetly. Until another market opens where you can use cryptos to purchase something easily cash cannot, I don't think it's worth the risk.

[Anonymous No.53083]

>>53041
its not currency

its a commodity

[Anonymous No.53107]

>>53073
> buy illegal shit discreetly

Actually, most of BTCs value is that its an easy money transfer system for Chinese trying to get around the Renminbi cash flow restrictions.

Now if they wanna move to USA, they don't have to worry about sending tons of installments to their kid studying there as he wastes it on fashion labels and white bmws.

[Anonymous No.53120]

BTC was created to transfer money around and make payments quickly and without fees typically associated with wire transfers through banks, or Western Union.

It sounded nice, but then several critical flaws in the mechanism were discovered, like malleability, the ability of a large mining operation to corrupt transactions and hijack the entire network etc.

Plus it's too volatile because people don't actually use it to buy anything, but just speculate, that discourages businesses from using it in e-commerce, on top of the non-reversible nature of a Bitcoin transaction.

Google is currently quietly working on a crypto that solves most of these problems. Look up Ripple coin.

[Anonymous No.53121]

>>53073
You can use them to purchase anything from tiger direct...

That's pretty much anything electronic.

Plenty of places except bitcoin but I don't know for how long. Now that they've lost 25% value with the mtgox jewscam I don't know if companies will trust them.

In the end OP its a battle between the corporatist elitist fiat bankers that run the world VS the liberty minded privacy advocates. We out number them 100000-1 but they own evvvvvvvvverything so it really hinders the growth of bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.53134]

It all depends on laws and the general public. If more people start using them the price will rise, if the amount of fiat spent on cryptos remains the same the price will fall as supply increases.

Bitcoin has many flaws with it's only strength over other cryptos being the huge infrastructure spending and being the first. In the long term I expect another coin to take it's place.

The only thing that will kill cryptos is laws, but more nations are ruling out banning them. in 6 days the Australian tax office decides if BTC is a foreign currency under Australian law. If it gets passed I see a bright 2014.

[Anonymous No.53178]

>>53121

>You can use them to purchase anything from tiger direct...

Just checked out their shopping cart and there is no feature for payment with BTC.

[Anonymous No.53182]

>>53120
>implying that a coin created by a large corporation will ever have any of the benefits of the crypto concept.
>implying they won't make it part of Google wallet
>implying the IRS doesn't receive reports of balances kept in Google wallet and other services
>implying you'll have any shred of privacy using a coin created by the largest advertising company in the world
>implying you won't purchase a box of screws and receive advertisements for screw drivers

[Anonymous No.53183]

>>53041
>2014
>still buying buttcoins

Invest into dogecoins

[Anonymous No.53194]

>>53178
http://www.tigerdirect.com/bitcoin/

[Anonymous No.53217]

>>53121

>Now that they've lost 25% value with the mtgox jewscam I don't know if companies will trust them.

The volatility is a HUGE obstacle with Bitcoin.

Imagine someone bought 2000 BTC worth of electronics from TigerDirect one day, made payment, and the company didn't immediately sell the BTC for USD, and the following day, those same BTC were now worth 25% less than the previous day.

That's a costly loss of the business.

The lack of any transparent and stable exchanges is a hindrance. BTC-E is a shady Russian operation that ran out of US dollars to cover pay-outs a few times...

BTC is limited to the fringe and will be replaced by a global crypto with a more corporate character. I predict Google will monopolize this.

[Anonymous No.53236]

>>53182
>Implying all fiat / crypto exchanges don't report to IRS

[Anonymous No.53266]

>>53217
Meh, that's the nature of bitcoins though. Sure, gold will never* fluctuate in huge margins like that but what if-

>someone buys 2000bc worth of goods
>company doesn't convert instantly
>Next day, bitcoins are worth 10x price
>Company is rich in seconds

I know a guy that made 500 bucks in 10 minutes when he picked up some bc's, it's also happened backwards to him....

So I guess what I'm saying is that if you actually use the damn things, they aren't as horrible as everyone seems to say.....

[Anonymous No.53280]

>>53182

>implying that a coin created by a large corporation will ever have any of the benefits of the crypto concept.

It absolutely can, and it will be free of all of the major security liabilities.

The only people screaming about anonymity in BTC are the lunatics and druggies.

If Google can make a crypto that will challenge PayPal as a form of online payment, it will monopolize the market.

You're accountable to the IRS with your current BTC any way, depending on the nature of your use. Capital gains on BTC are subject to the same taxes. Ask anyone that made large money in the BTC bubble and who later tried to cash in.

They had to resort to heavy lawyers to deal with all of the regulatory challenges in converting several thousand BTC to USD.

You can avoid the IRS only if you keep your BTC strictly separated from fiat. Which is not possible.

>Privacy

Why would I be concerned with that? in e-commerce, being able to hold individuals and businesses accountable is vitally important to maintain trust, which is absent in Bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.53296]

>>53236

Of course they do.

I've done the BTC circuit, made a few thousand, lost a few, and know the system's weakness. I don't see widespread commercial use, and I don't see people clamoring to pour billions of dollars into it again, to facilitate another bubble $1000 per coin bubble.

[Anonymous No.53294]

>>53041

The internet of money.

[Anonymous No.53316]

>>53294

You're thinking of the US dollar.

The USD is world's largest and most prolific electronic currency.

[Anonymous No.53321]

>>53236
>implying a shady Russian operation reports to the IRS

>implying I didn't buy locally with cash

>implying implications

[Anonymous No.53362]

>>53316

Bitcoin is a network protocol.

US dollar is entries in bank databese.

[Anonymous No.53374]

>>53280
>lunatics and druggies
Or hard working Americans who don't want to see uncle Sam rob them at gunpoint of 40% of their income.

>accountable to IRS for BTC
No, not yet at least. Sure you can call it an investment but since btc isn't a currency and there is no OFFICIAL value, they wouldn't win the court case.

>why be concerned with privacy
Why not have a government camera in your living room just to be sure you're not breaking any laws?

There's a line, and I draw that line at "I gave you money you give me product that's the end of it"

[Anonymous No.53390]

>>53362

I'll trust the Federal Reserve ledger over some peer-to-peer network that is violated every week.

[Anonymous No.53412]

>>53390
>trust the federal reserve

Hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaahahhahhahhahhaahaahaahahhaahahahahhahhahaaahahahaaahahahahahahahahaahaaaaahaahaaahaaahhaaahhhaaaahahahahahahahahahaahaahahahahhahhahhahahahahahah

Leave this board.

[Anonymous No.53441]

>>53374
>Or hard working Americans who don't want to see uncle Sam rob them at gunpoint of 40% of their income.

The only people I've seen invest money into BTC are lazy dorks and NEETs who do nothing of value and want to get wealthy by making mouseclicks in front of their computers. That's not a healthy demographic.

>No, not yet at least. Sure you can call it an investment but since btc isn't a currency and there is no OFFICIAL value, they wouldn't win the court case.

What are you talking about?

I withdrew ~50 BTC and I had to declare it as capital gains.

It's taxable depending on how its used. If it's used as a commodity, it falls under that regulatory statute, if it's used a currency, same thing. Don't fucking waste my time if you don't know what you're talking about because I've had a larger exposure to BTC than you probably have in all of your savings.

>Why not have a government camera in your living room just to be sure you're not breaking any laws?

This is a redundant point that I'm not even willing to argue.

Business operates under laws. Period.

[Anonymous No.53445]

>>53390
>fiat currency based on nothing but hopes and dreams (all the gold is gone)
>btc based on hopes and dreams (of a better currency)

So basically they're the same. My money says USD will hyperinflate sooner than btc

[Anonymous No.53459]

>>53390

The network is stronger than ever.

The exchanges are the ones which fuck up.

[Anonymous No.53479]

>>53412

Babby, pls.

The entire world economy moves on the words of the Federal Reserve. Like it or not, US treasury debt securities are the foundation of global economic stability.

Now can we have some serious discussion, or is this a place for 19-year old babbies to tinker with Dogecoin?

[Anonymous No.53491]

>>53459

>The network is stronger than ever.

Not from what I heard?

Aren't there 1 or 2 mining pools so large, that they pose a danger to the network?

One entity can easily purchase and direct such a mining pool to corrupt the transactions.

[Anonymous No.53508]

>>53441
>all ive seen....lazy dorks and NEETs

Wow man. Yeah all those lazy dorks and neets who just happen to have a few thousand disposable laying around to invest.

>implying that the biggest benefit of all isn't the ability to take large amounts of untracked cash and turn it into a movable currency through local purchases, then sell it online and transfer the cash to an offshore bank.

[Anonymous No.53544]

>>53445

>USD based on hopes and dreams

>World reserve currency and official currency of largest economy in the world

>Primary currency of energy trade

>Number 2 economy in the world China heavily invested into USD to keep their own currency devalued

>Essentially the two economies that represent almost 2/3 of all economic activity on this planet reliant on the USD

>Compares that to an online protocol used by Marijuana enthusiast.

Lel.

[Anonymous No.53563]

>>53544

>what is a potential black swan event?

[Anonymous No.53572]

>>53508

It's like I'm on reddit during a major crash (which happens about once every 2 weeks).

What is it about buttcoin bugs that makes them so hopelessly delusional?

[Anonymous No.53592]

>>53544
>these are the hopes and dreams I'm talking about.

>implying the entire world isn't drooling over the idea of dumping the USD

>implying China won't reach critical mass to the point where they won't need the USD

>implying China doesn't hate pigdog american scum

>implying the entire fucking planet doesn't hate pigdog american

>implying that the reason for this hate isn't 95% because of the globalist federal reserve campaign to destroy, control, invade, kill, rob, cheat, steal.

[Anonymous No.53593]

>>53563

>Implying server farms that draw tremendous amounts of electrical power and thousands of square feet in storage will continue to operate in an event that topples the 2 major world economies..

Stop, I'm running out of green text!

[Anonymous No.53611]

>>53592

Very rational argument.

But if you have faith in BTC, don't take my word for it. Prove your convictions with a sizable injection of cash into BTC and post your a screen of your wallet.

[Anonymous No.53633]

>>53593

>not knowing the exponential progress that computing technology experiences.

>implying that I think bitcoin will topple two major economies

>implying the USD isn't in trouble

[Anonymous No.53657]

>>53544
USD is worthless, it's only sustained thanks to oil which has replaced gold. Every war the US has done in the last few decades was in order to keep the dollar valuable.
As for the chinese, well it's only a matter of time before they crash hard. Their entire hoursemarket is a massive bubble they are currently trying to sustain by forcing every fucking farmer in china to buy houses and live in their fake cities.

[Anonymous No.53678]

>>53611
Im not advocating investment in btc, I'm bashing the idea of investment in USD.

Personally at this point I would rather have a nice diverse investment in several other fiat currencies who have not yet reached their predetermined Rothschild experation date

[Anonymous No.53688]

>>53491

Large pools that can attack the network have more to gain if they don't attack the network.

There are yet to be pools large enough to be able to do attacks.

[Anonymous No.53689]

>>53633

>progress that computing technology experiences.

So, the internet no longer requires physical hardware and power to run? That's new.

>>53657

That's very cute. So how substantial are your BTC holdings? Can you post your wallet?

[Anonymous No.53714]

>>53041

Watch this and stop shitposting with the same image every night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE

[Anonymous No.53716]

>>53689
>that's very cute
>arrogant dickhead who lost his argument so now resorts to degrading
>implying you have to have money invested in order to enjoy and follow investment strategies
>implying people don't spend years preparing to invest when they reach their savings goal

Seriously. Leave this board. Go back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.53725]

>>53678

I suspect you have no idea what you're talking, you've never made any significant investments, and most of your economic knowledge is derived from threads on /pol/..

Discouraging investment in USD? You mean bonds, or currency speculation via the Forex? What are you talking about?

>diverse investment in several other fiat currencies

So you're talking about the Forex right? What's your trading strategy like? Long-term trades based on fundamentals? Because that sounds like what you're describing.

>Rothschild experation date

/pol/, pls..

[Anonymous No.53738]

>>53716

Ah, so you have no money invested in BTC or anything else for that matter, and are here only to shitpost your spiteful opinions against the US government.

And then he accuses me of /pol/?!

You've got some balls matey. That's high-level trolling right there.

[Anonymous No.53740]

>>53689

>So, the internet no longer requires physical hardware and power to run? That's new.

Wow you are so fucking retarded. How fast is an iPhone 5s compared to the first one?

[Anonymous No.53755]

>>53183
I don't like meme shit, reddit.

[Anonymous No.53765]

>>53740

Also, there are miners for scrypt that are 15x as powerful as the current rigs that consume the same or lesss amount of power.

[Anonymous No.53766]

>>53725
>not acknowledging globalist banking conspiracy
>federal reserve is a privately owned business, virtually unauditable.

I will cry tears of joy the day every one of you hard headed sheep gets systematically destroyed for ignoring the incredibly obvious scam job that's been going on for decades.

>what is engineered bubbles
>what is engineered wars
>what is engineered false flags

[Anonymous No.53777]

>>53740

So the iPhone 5s also does not run on power and does not require massive infrastructure, and microwave towers distributed throughout the service area to operate?

Jeez! I'm so behind on technology. Looks like all about the conservation of energy and transmission of energy have been violated and sodomized.

Hey babby, do you even remember the point you are tying to argue...

It had something to do with the internet during an economic crisis and it's vulnerability. Why are you talking about smartphones?

[Anonymous No.53789]

>>53766

Ugh, more of this /pol/ shit.

Okay, alright. Fine. Fuck.

I'll buy your water filters Alex Jones, just stop spamming.

[Anonymous No.53805]

>>53777

>So the iPhone 5s also does not run on power and does not require massive infrastructure, and microwave towers distributed throughout the service area to operate?

I'm talking about advancements in computational power, see >>53765

You said:
>It had something to do with the internet during an economic crisis and it's vulnerability. Why are you talking about smartphones?

But before that you said:

>So, the internet no longer requires physical hardware and power to run? That's new.

Everything requires power and hardware to run, I think the bitnet would be the last concern for you. And for me as well, considering that computers from around the entire fucking planet run it.

[Anonymous No.53822]

>>53805

You're talking about a black swan event that brings down the major economies?

Why would you assume the internet would survive when all of the hubs are pretty centralized?

[Anonymous No.53825]

>>53822

I'm talking about a black swan event that can completely change the way we do banking and exchange currency.

[Anonymous No.53847]

>>53822

Please research ethereum as well. The potential is huge.

[Anonymous No.53941]

>>53825

By that point I hope we disband the antiquated concept of market capitalism.

[Anonymous No.53992]

>>53941

and replace it with what?

[Anonymous No.54004]

>>53941
>oh boy here it comes

[Anonymous No.54268]

>>53992
>>54004

The eco-economy.

[Anonymous No.54302]

As someone who is familiar with the internet and many things online, I just don't get digital coins.

The fact that I need to wait days for the bitcoin client to sync is annoying as fuck, and the fact that it's not easy to purchase or cash out is annoying as fuck as well.

Bitcoin or any other digital coin based on that technology will never become popular with the masses because it's too hard to use, even for someone who is familiar with the internet and technology.

Something simpler and easier needs to be made. If that never happens USD it is.

[Anonymous No.54441]

I love coming into these threads because it's easy to pick out who legitimately knows what the fuck they are talking about.

>>53441
>mfw this nigga

[Anonymous No.54446]

>>54302
You aren't the only one with these complaints and in 3 years the free market has created tons of solutions for it.

The download for the client to sync is a one time thing as long as you leave your PC on and connected. It is a fundamental part of the peer to peer design.

[Anonymous No.54529]

>>54302
>cash out is annoying as fuck as well.
The fundamental problem with digital coins is there is no "cash out." The ability to receive cash is 100% linked to the desire of someone to give you cash for it. This is

This is why it is a commodity, not a currency.

[Anonymous No.54573]

why should I choose doge? has it not peacked yet? is it possible it's gonna blow up like bitcoin (i'm here for profit only). is the litecoin train already passed? what about quark?

[Anonymous No.54651]

>>54573

>LTC, Quark

Corpses. The fact that LTC is still worth more than 1 dollar is mostly the bitter nerds that refuse to see the writing on the wall.