/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.52758748]

is the 401k a midwit trap? 1,000's a year I could spend to enjoy life when I will likely be dead in 30 years or the jews will change the retirement rules so their ponzis don't collapse, if the USA/stock market even exist in 30 years (doubtful). Is it not way smarter to spend the money on improving your life, hobbys that can lead to making money etc?? It says I will make like 20k a year from my 401k when I likely wont even be around to collect it.

[Anonymous No.52758767]

They’re good if you live a normal life.

[Anonymous No.52758833]

>>52758748
>wageslave for 50 years
>ruin your back, knees, ankles, digestion, brain from insomnia, give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome, have severe myopia or cataracts
>now my real life can begin
>JPow just rugged the stock market, your retirement savings have been cut by 60%
Now my real life can finally begin!

[Anonymous No.52758842]

>>52758748
just like the goldbugs and the nocoiners, you've got to consider the very real possibility that you're wrong and allocate accordingly
holy shit I can't believe I actually talk money with you fucking subhumans

[Anonymous No.52758865]

>>52758842
401k is a scam, retard.

[Anonymous No.52758907]

>plans on dying in his 50s
>I'm retarded

[Anonymous No.52758917]

>>52758842
even if I am wrong, is 20k a year really that fucking significant?

[Anonymous No.52758930]

>>52758842
delusional shitcoin baggie, I notice you left yourself out of that list of who could be wrong

[Anonymous No.52758963]

>>52758917
you think it's enough to make your life better now, why wouldn't 30 years of compounded growth make your life better then?

[Anonymous No.52758995]

>>52758930
I know more about you than you know about me
You're the faggot asking for validation

[Anonymous No.52759004]

>>52758963
>you think it's enough to make your life better now
did I say that???
>>52758963
>why wouldn't 30 years of compounded growth make your life better then?
you are assuming growth over the next 30 years.

[Anonymous No.52759013]

>>52758748
>I will likely be dead in 30 years
>if the USA/stock market even exist in 30 years (doubtful)
ok man, spend all your money and get back to us in 30 years

[Anonymous No.52759065]

>>52759004
You're assuming no growth over the next 30 years, something that has never happened before. Compared to his assuming growth, something that has always happened before. Who is the bigger retard here, retard?

[Anonymous No.52759113]

>>52759065
>something that has never happened before
man we so fucked as a species if the hubris has gotten to this point

[Anonymous No.52759205]

>>52758748
Your money is probably better invested elsewhere, assuming no employer matching. If they offer a decent match, max that out and do no more.

[Anonymous No.52759252]

>>52758748
Plug in the numbers with this: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#XkkSiOz6sF

Look at it as keeping more of your income but it has to be locked away in your 401k. If you're going focus on a Roth IRA first though.

[Anonymous No.52759253]

>>52759113
If the stock market hasn't grown in the next 30 years, shiny rocks aren't going to help you.

[Anonymous No.52759270]

>>52759252
* if you're young

[Anonymous No.52759298]

>>52759065
>something that has always happened before.
growth has ALWAYS happened?! what about the depression, recessions, currency devaluation?? the "growth" you are saying always happens is mostly inflation.

[Anonymous No.52759322]

>>52758907
> shits talks people for not considering they could be wrong
> doesn't consider he could die in his 50s
you are indeed retarded

[Anonymous No.52759337]

>>52759298
Inflation adjusted, there is no moment in history where 30 years prior the market was at a higher level

[Anonymous No.52759343]

>>52758748
no, because its guaranteed double your money. even if you withdrew it once yo quit your job and paid the penalty, yod still come out ahead.
not to mention, having money that steadily grows in an index fund isnt really so bad. I've accumulated 100k in my 401k just by putting a tiny bit of each paycheck away from the last ~6 years. I barely even noticed the money coming out.

[Anonymous No.52759363]

>>52759343
by double your money I mean the company match

[Anonymous No.52759378]

Assuming a japanification or worse of the USA is a truly midwit take

If the USA can't make it, no one can; who's going to replace us? Monkeys in India or Brazil? Literal bug people in China? Nah, this is still an American century

[Anonymous No.52759389]

>>52758748
If your company matches it is perfectly reasonable to allocate some of your money to a 401k.
I personally do not, although I should reconsider.
One of my hobbies is investing so I prefer to have full access to my own capital.
I spent far too long in my early twenties binge drinking so I am not so confident that I will even live that long.
I also don't have health insurance as it is simply another scam by the government to get the masses to bag-hold the government's debt. I think financial assets are literal dogshit tier investments now that we are reaching the saturation point. The economy needs exponential more input just to maintain the leverage that is preventing all of these bubbles from popping. The valuations are inflated with leverage and the banks are looking like they want to stabilize things by printing cash. The notion that all of us millennials will just invest in the stock market and our wealth will grow at the same time the mountains of capital the boomers own will also be growing is nonsense. It has to pop in real terms. Hence why I prefer having my own money. See that pic in OP? That "growth rate" is an exponential function, and all exponents will go eventually on a long enough timeline. The earth is finite and can not support these types of math tricks with real world land and resources. Banking is nothing more than utilizing a money-trick to transfer all wealth into their hands. And the end game is not going to be fun for anyone, even the bankers are probably shitting bricks knowing full well what they inherited.

[Anonymous No.52759399]

>>52759337
can you at least do a google fucking search before you spew your 4chud "facts"

[Anonymous No.52759414]

>>52759337
>no moment in history
>mentions markets
they haven't existed forever. I'm being facetious but even post industrialization there are prolonged periods of very low growth or loss, case and point is japan since the 90s. It's a safe bet based on what we know during our lifetimes and even our grandparents lifetimes but there's always unforseen events that can happen. that being said, i still deposit the max my company matches into my 401k

[Anonymous No.52759439]

>>52759399
literally 1930 to fucking 1995 kek

[Anonymous No.52759509]

I think a 401k is indeed a midwit trap. Most of these 401k plans have you putting your money into mutual funds. Most investors, including professionals fail to beat the market. If most of these people fail, then why not just put your money into the S&P on your own? Invest in the market. There's the whole tax break thing, but to get it you have to wait until you're about 60, which is five years before the average person dies. Money is always going to be worth more now than later for a variety of reasons, but the main one here is: you'll be able to enjoy money more younger. When you're that old you won't be able to the things you used to. Your body and mind will be broken down. You could also be dead and the market could of just entered a recession or worse when the day comes. I'd say you're better off investing the money on your own into the S&P and taking it out when the market is doing good and your health isn't fucked yet.

[Anonymous No.52759524]

>>52758748
>is the 401k a midwit trap?

idk seems like if you hold for 25-30 years it's better. But i ran some quick math and didn't include company matching or funny business with roth or borrowing against it. And it seems pretty shitty if you withdraw early. but i guess that's the point. Maybe i did the math & taxes incorrectly

[Anonymous No.52759623]

>>52759065
There have been entire centuries in the past with no growth (or negative growth). It is foolish to assume that the mega growth over the last 80 years will continue. Look at places like south Africa and Brazil to understand what the USA will be like in 30 years.

Also, clear your head. Focus on things that are on your control:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7PbFZVYwrL4

[Anonymous No.52759627]

>>52759524
I started contributing at 30 so... yeah I'm gonna stop contributing to that shit lol I'm not trying to save all this money while i'm young so I can have 20k a year for 5 years and die.

[Anonymous No.52759716]

>>52758748
Any plan that requires you to work until you’re 65 is already built on faulty principles.

[Anonymous No.52759737]

>>52759716
you only have to work to 65 if you spend your 20s thinking you know better

[Anonymous No.52759743]

>>52758748
Personally, I think yes. I still contribute 6% to get the employer matching, but I don't think it's going to pay off in the end. If I run the math I'll have $980k pre tax in my 401k at 65. Big whoop. Maybe I'll finally be able to afford a house. But also, maybe not. A $700k doesn't buy what it used to.

[Anonymous No.52759783]

>>52758748
Following on to say that the big funds, Vanguard et al, have insane political power as the stewards of everyone's retirement funds. I think retirement is a pipe dream for me and many of my age cohort (29). I started contributing at 25 and I won't even break $1m by 65, unless there's another generation of plenty and wealth around the corner, but all signed point to no.

[Anonymous No.52759815]

>>52759737
I spent my early 20s being very retarded and paid for it with my mid/late 20s.
I’m 35 now and should be on target to retire by 40. I could do it now if I wanted to live frugal in a low cost of living area but that doesn’t seem worth it.

[Anonymous No.52759835]

>>52759743
It’s going to buy even less when you’re 65

[Anonymous No.52759893]

The meta right now is crypto. You’re not going to get these returns in any other asset class and they’re going to be gone soon if they aren’t already. The golden era is certainly long gone but maybe there’s one last face melting bull run left or maybe it’s already done. I don’t know but I’m willing to go all in one more time when the the time is right. Just not yet

[Anonymous No.52759924]

>>52759893
>The meta right now is crypto
alright baggie

[Anonymous No.52759992]

>>52759924
I already sold back in January and actually made money. Cope and seethe

[Anonymous No.52760007]

>>52759992
then you should know that it is over.

[Anonymous No.52760017]

>>52759992
good for you
cuckto will never reach those prices again

[Anonymous No.52760097]

>>52760007
>>52760017
Whatever you say 401k(ucks)

[Anonymous No.52760141]

>>52758748
You can use a roth ladder to access 401k money at any age if you retire early. you just have to do the little song and dance to get the money out.
At a minimum it's helpful to save tax if you plan to retire or use the money before age 59.
Traditional equity (stock) investments are good as a core holding for when social security eventually stagnates to death. You shouldn't count it out, especially if your company matches your contributions. If you're ignoring that then you're literally giving up part of your salary.

[Anonymous No.52760151]

>>52759509
Most 401k plans have an sp500 fund retard, you just have to select it

[Anonymous No.52760247]

>>52759509
My basic ass 401k plan at XYZ mega-corp has an S&P fund as an option. All of my choices are low-cost broad market funds. I can choose an S&P fund, a small/mid cap fund, an international fund, and so on.
If I weren't pleased with this, i could open a separate brokerage within my 401k and buy SPY or VTI.
I'm not being hostile, but you fail to realize that it's trivially easy to get money out young penalty-free, and that most 401k plans have the exact funds you mention.
It doesn't mean you are limited to shitty funds unless your employer chooses a scam provider.

[Anonymous No.52760503]

>>52759378
>amerifat doesn't realise he's already been replaced

[Anonymous No.52760862]

>>52760151
>>52760247
I guess my employer just sucks. How do you get money out young with no penalties though?

[Anonymous No.52760914]

>>52760862
I'll explain.
First, retire early and live on your savings for 5 years. In those 5 years, roll over some of your pre-tax 401k money to a Roth IRA every year. Say for example you roll over 40k per year after you retire, which would keep taxes low but still supplement your budget nicely.
You can then withdraw that 40k after it sits in your Roth IRA for 5 years tax and penalty free. Essentially you just have to think 5 years ahead and cover that original 5 year gap, then there are no penalties and very minimal tax.

[Anonymous No.52760982]

>>52758748

If you arent getting at least the employer match, you're a moron

100% returns on your money up to the match. beyond that dont put money in 401k. easy as fuck

[Anonymous No.52761293]

>>52759509
>There's the whole tax break thing, but to get it you have to wait until you're about 60, which is five years before the average person dies.
1. You roth ladder out of the 401k when you're ready to go
2. The average person who makes it to sixty makes it to eighty, life expectancy gets set by people dying in teens and 20s.

[Anonymous No.52761414]

I started contributing to a roth ira first. Then I briefly worked an office job for mlb, which gave everyone pensions, since they were old fashioned, but still contributed to the roth ira as well. Then got a different job that has a 401k with a company match, which I max out. I have still been contributing to the roth ira as well, but will soon have to stop because I'll exceed the salary cap for a roth. If you have a 401k with matching, it makes sense to contribute at least something to get that match. if you don't have a retirement plan, you should open an ira and make the max contributions for at least a few years. then you can leave it for a while if you want, or keep paying in each year, which would be better. if you make enough, you can and should still invest in a regular taxable account. old age is not a good time in life to have no money or to subsist on social security. everything is harder from moving your body to thinking.

[Anonymous No.52762261]

>>52759004
>did I say that???
You said spending 1k a year would improve your life, what about having 19k more to spend?

[Anonymous No.52762282]

>>52759378
Replace you at what? The only things you're exporting are useless wars, tasty burgers and bad movies.

[Anonymous No.52762323]

>>52759065
>You're assuming no growth over the next 30 years, something that has never happened before
never heard of the nikkei?

[Anonymous No.52762634]

>>52762261
for me it's more than 1k a year, closer to 6k, and by then i'll be 65 and what do i care about 19k? what about inflation by then? hopefully my son will be caring for me by then anyways

[Anonymous No.52762822]

>>52759389
So what do you invest in?

[Anonymous No.52762843]

>>52761414
and you need some coin to pay a lawyer to hide your assets from the state or they'll steal it all when you're on your deathbed

[Anonymous No.52762871]

>>52759389
>If your company matches it is perfectly reasonable to allocate some of your money to a 401k.
is it reasonable to do this and to cash it out early? I dont want to wait until im old to spend my money

[Anonymous No.52763029]

>>52762871
>cash it out early
yea 10% fee and gets taxed on income. Math is complicated if you want to put more. But at least getting the match is a no brainer

[Anonymous No.52763112]

>>52758748
use normie tools and get normie results. it's just a way to force your typical retard to save money and compund interest while propping up the stock market ponzi. while it's useful for some reasons if its your only plan then you're ngmi.

[Anonymous No.52763204]

once the market is sufficiently discounted, you can buy individual stocks. once they get expensive, the s&p aggregate is basically the only thing you can buy and hold if you know what you are doing because all the quality stocks get bid up way too high and just go higher for years and years until they collapse and they bid the shit stocks up like they are doing now to keep the indexes afloat. you buy your gems in times like these + worse, once things get good you can only buy the indexes. obviously you can be a master trader and time tops and bottoms perfectly and you don't need to worry about this, but for people that really just want to buy and hold good stocks + funds long term listen to this advice. at a time like this buy something like meta goog intc mmm vz. you might get lucky you might not, but those are high quality companies that have come down a lot and are now fairly valued, grab those now. then when things recover, buy the index to ride the beta and if you buy an individual stock during this time make sure you do it at single digit p/e with a major catalyst forming (plandemic, war, WEF agenda stuff)

[Anonymous No.52763358]

>>52763204
I think the issue is as a young person who wants to retire early you either have to gamble with crypto/penny stocks or get lucky and time the market so it feels like you need more capital to invest

[Anonymous No.52763439]

>>52759389
Technological development has allowed us to consistently do more with less..

[Anonymous No.52763444]

Yes, I suppose if your most schizophrenic fantasies come true a 401k won't do much for you.

[Anonymous No.52763507]

>>52758748
Yeah OP, don't take the company 401k match which is free money, literally 100% ROI. Just get taxed on 100% of your earnings and blow it all on uber eats, vidya, and funko pops until the world ends. If you're wrong and the world doesn't end, hopefully your meager social security will be enough to pay pod rent with a little bit left over for a few servings of bugs daily.

[Anonymous No.52763533]

>>52760503
T. Seething yuropoor who can't afford a car or single family home and has American military bases in his country

[Anonymous No.52763557]

>>52758748
I only pay the amount my company will match and never max it out. That's 100% roi. Social security is considered welfare even though we pay into it our entire lives. Imagine what they think of the other government instruments. It's their money until they let you have it, and they may not. Look at Venezuela. Look at Greece. "Mother do I trust the government?" God no. But I'll at least try to get the company's dollar.

[Anonymous No.52763888]

The problem with the 401k is that you're essentially praying that the kikes and liberals don't destroy society by the time you get to retirement age.

>Most millennials will not own homes
>Majority of homeowners will never have any equity in their homes from buying at the top
>Illegal immigration will only get worse
>Demographic conflicts will only get worse
>Government debt will eventually make the US default
>There will be no social security for millennials and gen z.
>Stock market can't make any gains without 0% interest rates and money printing.

It only makes to invest in a 401k if you have an employer match. That's a guaranteed 100% return on your money. Don't contribute anymore than the employer match. If you don't have a match, then the best option is a Roth IRA. It's superior to a 401k in every possible way.

[Anonymous No.52763915]

>>52759065
Japan went 30 years with a flat market. We can also see just in the past ten twenty years that the market was shit until the money printed started firing at the tail end of the Bush presidency all the way up until now.

[Anonymous No.52764119]

>>52760982
I get what's you're saying but I only get 50% up to 6%. Stingy fucks.

[Anonymous No.52764176]

>>52763888
>Stock market can't make any gains without 0% interest rates and money printing.
In this scenario, would dividend stocks be the best play?

[Anonymous No.52764207]

>>52763557
i think i’d rather save the cash myself invest it in gold and invest it in myself while i’m relatively young. i’ll figure the rest of it out when i’m old.

[Anonymous No.52764213]

>>52763533
You seem to take pride in your country

[Anonymous No.52764229]

>>52763888
i have a match but can i just cash it out every year?

[Anonymous No.52764642]

>>52758748
>allowing others to "save" your money for you.((()))

[Anonymous No.52764911]

>>52764176
I guess so but most dividends are liable to be suspended if the company is light on profit