/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.52437520]

Is the coding bubble actually popping or is everyone here just seething at codechads?

[Anonymous No.52437527]

>>52437520
eventually all coding will be remove and it will be a race to zero

[Anonymous No.52437531]

>>52437520
>codechads
autistic tinker trannies

[Anonymous No.52437545]

>>52437531
We make more money than you ever will

[Anonymous No.52437561]

>>52437520
They're mad because programmers can work 2 hours and call it a day.

[Anonymous No.52437573]

If you can work from home, you can be replaced by 1 or 2 pajeets.

[Anonymous No.52437590]

>>52437573
the quality is not the same
but there will be down pressure

[Anonymous No.52437591]

>>52437573
>noo you need to rot in a cubicle to be productive
you are the pajeet

[Anonymous No.52437628]

>>52437590
>>52437591
kek they said this about china in the 90s now china builds a new nuclear power plant every 6 months and we haven't fully commissioned one since the 1970s

[Anonymous No.52437660]

Programmers FUDing you from a CS degree to keep their wages high. Kinda like how med school admissions are artificially low despite mega doctor shortages.

Life is literally filled with manipulation everywhere you look

[Anonymous No.52437668]

>>52437520
it's popping because they employed tons of diversity hires to fill quotas and they can't do the jobs properly. Also most of the jobs we're specifically created just to pretend to be a productive company and now that money is getting tied they're flushing down all the jobs that aren't really needed. Which is mostly HR roasties, social media managers etc. etc.

Sitting at an office and barely doing 2 hours of productive work but getting paid 8 hours.

[Anonymous No.52437753]

>>52437520
A shitload of coding bootcamp retards got their first programming job and didn’t bother learning more afterwards. I job hopped and studied my ass off up to a senior dev role, many of my peers stayed as code monkeys and are rightly being canned.

[Anonymous No.52437879]

>>52437520
The market was a thousand times better 15 years ago.

Now its getting saturated by trainees and junior devs who got into the industry because politicians, mainstream media and influencers told them to do so under the promises of high wages and a luxury corporate life. This in turn made companies rise their hiring bar and self-taught developers are starting to being seen as unwanted eventhough they are among the best developers the market has in its disposal ( have self teaching skills and initiative is an extremely valuable asset in a company ).

Then you have coder AI being funded by big tech to reduce the amount of coders needed to develop and applications.

There are companies that are investing into low-code, no-code tech, the company where I work is selling that tech and there are interested customers.

There is also an economic fact, demand for developers has been artificially rised by 0% interest rates, Venture Capitals FOMO, Pension Funds interested in investing in risky assets, extremely high liquidity in banks and corporations ( due to 0% rates ). Now those factors are no more thus demand for software is falling, projects are being cancelled and companies are cutting costs.

Another factor is a phenomenon of profiles from non-tech careers that are starting to study software development and Data Sciences, specially in data science.

Overall its not the best tech market, I have been telling people for 8 years that the things we are seeing today in the market would happen and everyone told me: "Nah bruh, you are retarded, there is no tech bubble, coding jobs will be forever because there is an infinite demand for software developers", Karma is a bitch.

[Anonymous No.52438153]

>>52437660
The Market for CS degrees is absolutely flooded. They pushed STEM hard and everyone heard stories of the 80s and 90s kids who grew up to make tons of money programming. Come mid to late 2000s everyone was out getting CS degrees. Fast forward to now and programmers are a dime a dozen, most don’t even understand how the OS they program on works or really what is happening at a low level when they write their code. They just k or that if they use these functions from this API they will get a result and that’s good enough for them. I was able to get a job right after highschool with no degree for 50k in ‘97 writing c/c++/java/Perl. Now every college grad, jeet, and chink are competing for the same development jobs. Thankfully IT is a broad field if you know what you’re doing you can transition into other areas that are highly sought after but have a low number of qualified people applying for them. The salaries are higher and the job security is better since you’re harder to replace.

[Anonymous No.52438279]

>>52437879
>>52438153
Kek we basically wrote with the same sentiment

[Anonymous No.52438299]

I'm gonna make a bet that CS will go the way of engineering, I mean the conditions are extremely similar. Right now, all work is in the west, but this was like this in engineering too, but eventually, foreign education caught up and companies started offshoring left right and centre and now only a shell remains in the west, and the overall wages of the industry have been greatly driven downwards.

And also as usual, the market is flooded very quickly by parents telling their kids to do CS degrees.

I think potentially the current crop of zoomers will be the last to enjoy great purchasing power and the upcoming crop of managers will run massive offshoring cost-cutting campaigns.

We arguably already see this advantage to relatively offshored companies, where apple and microsoft, which both are more offshored, are faring better than google and facebook, which kept their offices in western countries with higher salaries

We will also likely see increased offshoring to Europe

[Anonymous No.52438328]

>>52437520
can’t speak for entry level shit, but right now a senior developer who is good at their job can demand basically anything they want within reason. the market for experienced devs, like 5-10+ years is drastically under-supplied and salaries are starting to climb even more because of it

[Anonymous No.52438349]

Coding is the art of bending a computer to your whim
It is an essential part of computer literacy
With code you can optimize almost any desk job. Everyone should know how to code, just like we should all know algebra.

[Anonymous No.52438373]

>>52438328
saying roles that require 5-10 years of experience being undersupplied is a bit pointless, since we don't know if in 5-10 years' time they will still be undersupplied or not

[Anonymous No.52438406]

>>52437628
Chinks are the natural prey to escalators in their own country.

[Anonymous No.52438434]

>>52437660
idk man, im graduating with a CS degree from a top school in the UK, but only middle-of-the-line tech companies want to take me, because the top ones have their cohorts filled with international applicants, market can genuinely get saturated at some point

[Anonymous No.52438465]

>>52438406
Fucking kek because it’s true. I can spend hours watching chink elevator fail videos and never run out of new content. I’m convinced China engineered their elevators to help with population control.

[Anonymous No.52438502]

As long as you can buy a webpage, or space on a web-page, or you can build electronics, coding is never gonna be dead.
People gonna be arguing in code in 40 years.

[Anonymous No.52438517]

>>52437879
desu, I got my first software job as a self taught developer just a few months ago. And if I wasn't so autistic in interviews, I probably could've had a job 6 months earlier

[Anonymous No.52438556]

>>52437520
sort of
there is currently a huge glut of entry level candidates, but they are mostly useless until they gain a few years of experience
now that the free money train has ended, tech companies no longer want to hold onto these new grads/bootcampers until they MIGHT become useful, so it's harder to find a job for them
however, there is still a huge demand for experienced devs and that won't change
any junior dev who manages to find a job in this shitty market will be a great spot in ~2-4 years when the market recovers and these companies go on hiring sprees again
those who can't find jobs (often bootcampers, or international students) will be fucked
also as a side note: I find it funny when /biz/ claims pajeets will steal all tech jobs, when I know for a fact international students have it 10x harder than US citizens because not many companies are willing to sponsor new grads. so if anything its the pajeets that get fucked over harder

[Anonymous No.52438558]

>>52438349
>Coding is the art of bending a computer to your whim
Yup. I bend this board in half. Check my digits.

[Anonymous No.52438584]

No point in hiring programmers when electricity is too expensive to run the code in the first place.

[Anonymous No.52438597]

>>52437520
I just lost my job as a dev today. I think it's going to ve a bloodbath in Jan.

[Anonymous No.52438627]

>>52438597
were you a good programmer son

[Anonymous No.52438638]

>>52438558
>deleted
kek

[Anonymous No.52438650]

>EVERYONE THINKS YOU CAN GET TONS OF MONEY WORKING AS A SOFTWARE DEV CODE FAG
>YES EVERYONE THINKS ITS SO IT MUST BE TRUE

You're late

[Anonymous No.52438663]

>>52438517
Do a market research and learn niche technologies that generic software developers do not know, otherwise you could become unemployable in the future.

[Anonymous No.52438670]

>>52438627
Yes, but I was contracting/consulting. I knew it was coming, contingent workersare usually the first to go when you make cuts in tech.

[Anonymous No.52438706]

>>52437520

2023 is going to fuck people's shit up.

75bps hike by fed or nothing.

[Anonymous No.52438720]

>>52437879
>unwanted eventhough they are among the best developers the market has in its disposal ( have self teaching skills and initiative is an extremely valuable asset in a company ).
It's too bad you are not a hiring manager

[Anonymous No.52438733]

>>52437520

logged into my linkedin like 2 hours ago for he first time in a while. one of the most successful well connected guys I know made a post about lots of his "friends" getting laid of from IT space and he wanted to know if anyone was hiring.

[Anonymous No.52438877]

>>52438720
A lot of people from outside the tech industry invaded the tech sector, many HR ladies that dont know what a computer is, yet they filter potential candidates while not understand the difference between JavaScript and Java.
How do they make their job, simple, filter out all candidates without a degree in IT, there are also managers that want to set an standard and only hire people with university degrees despite the qualifications or experience.
And in some companies its worst as many demand you to share your social media accounts and have seen some cases demanding a portfolio of github projects.

The tech market is becoming a toxic swamp, when I started you only needed to prove that you could develop software on a certain technology, but with the invasion of non-tech actors into the sector it all came downhill, the startup culture became a damocles sword in the secto.

[Anonymous No.52438921]

>>52438663
I got hired for my open source work with c++ and assembly, (lots of simd stuff).
As far as I can tell, people who understand performance at a low level are highly in demand, even though the number of total positions are much smaller than say the total positions for webdevs.

Though the position I'm actually hired for isn't really making use of those skills.

[Anonymous No.52439026]

>>52438597
Hello fellow consultant job loser, for me it was a few weeks ago. I've already applied to 3 jobs since then, got coding interviews for 2 of them, failed. Guess I gotta get better at to recursively walking trees while some asshole is breathing down my neck asking me to "explain what I'm doing". It's all so tiresome, I've been thinking of just becoming a bus driver.

[Anonymous No.52439053]

>>52439026
I hate those interviews.

[Anonymous No.52439088]

>>52437545
you can make much more by starting your own business.

[Anonymous No.52439099]

>>52438921
I have 15 years of experience in tech and I have NEVER seen a good developer in C++ and Assembly. And its a Shame because C++ have really interested capacities that higher level languages do not have.

So yes, If you had such a portfolio then its valuable, being good at Assembly and C++ is high IQ. But what I was refering to those JavaScript github garbage projects that for some reason became a cargo cult in the sector.

Congrats snowflake, hope you will be doing fine.

[Anonymous No.52439113]

>>52439053
good luck, and take some time for yourself, don't immediately LUST for a new job. if you have the money to survive, it's really kind of a blessing to be free for a bit. Only downside is I can't buy btc as hard as I want because no income stream.

[Anonymous No.52439157]

>>52439026
>Guess I gotta get better at to recursively walking trees while some asshole is breathing down my neck asking me to "explain what I'm doing"

What? companies are still doing that? this industry is a train-wreck.

[Anonymous No.52439183]

>>52437520
The internet started out as public. As the wealthy slowly privatised it they left access open to normies for an illusion of public space. How was that paid for? by avoiding taxes in cryptocurrency. And that's over now so bibi useless schmucks.

You're going to see some more hardcore uni degrees become available and slowly become the only path into tech.

Regulation is key for the wealthy to stay in power. They need to make sure that they always have a position above others.

[Anonymous No.52439556]

>>52439099
I had some interviews with several of those startups that are making custom "AI" chips. They needed more compiler devs.
I didn't pass their interviews, but I'm feeling glad that I didn't, since most of these companies seem to have no path to revenue, and debt is no longer so cheap.

My current company seems much more recession proof. We're actually still hiring.

[Anonymous No.52439709]

Yeah it's clear shit's fucked now. I lost my job last week, and I have 2 years of experience so technically I'm still a junior, maybe mid-level.
I'm so burned out I can't even imagine going through interviews for the next 2 months. I have enough money to live for 4 years, so I'm not that worried.

[Anonymous No.52439759]

>>52437545
ive been in big law for 8 years. i make more money in a year than you do in 10, nigger retard.

[Anonymous No.52439807]

>>52439556
I agree with your assesment, Intel is developing a new kind of AI chip, so I doubt most competitors will be able to compete.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/research/neuromorphic-computing.html

What could be a hot market is the sillicon photonics chip, It could spark an information revolution if the American companies investing in that tech develop a useable prototype.

[Anonymous No.52439967]

>>52437520
Yes and no. People who are actually autistic enough to program well are still in high demand and always will be just due to skill at programming being a genetic disorder. People who aren't Assigned Coder At Birth will be flushed down the toilet until the next economic boom in 5 years.

[Anonymous No.52439983]

Man I wish I could code and stuff like that but I'm bad with numbers and stuff like that. It's like Chinese to me

[Anonymous No.52440093]

>>52439556
>compiler devs
how to become?

[Anonymous No.52440126]

>>52440093
Contribute to open source compiler projects.
Didn't get me a job in the field, but got my foot in the door atleast.

[Anonymous No.52440183]

>>52437545
doesn't matter, coding is still pussy-repellent. of all the well-compensated jobs in history, software "engineering" has to be the gayest and lamest. globohomo found their perfect servants and decided to pay them six figures to maintain their faggot antichrist machine. congratulations, seriously.

[Anonymous No.52440247]

>>52438299
Been saying something along these lines would occur with programming for a long time. I love programming, but I have a hell of a lot more job security in Aviation. It never made sense to me that despite graduating a million CS students a year there'd still be more and more high-paying jobs. Programmers now are faggots anyways, they deserve it. With this generation, the west will be driven into the ground.

[Anonymous No.52440437]

>>52439983
>I wish I could code and stuff like that but I'm bad with numbers
kek nobody tell her

[Anonymous No.52440451]

>>52439088
Doing what?

[Anonymous No.52440466]

as someone who went to uni to study coding, codechads were never a thing. not even when they were paid a lot.

[Anonymous No.52440532]

It’s imploding but only for US hires. Most were hired because of massive growth for the sake of it and did nothing of value. Now that the FED has put an end to that growth all of these tech companies need to actually prove they can make money and fix their balance sheets

No more hiring, no more high wages, no more in house gyms and free food and chai lattes , poor tables and playstations

Just Mass firing and exporting jobs to third world countries where the same jobs can be done at a 1/5 of current prices

[Anonymous No.52440694]

>>52437520
>tried to become a shitty junior webdev
>excited over 6 fig starting pay and tons of benefits plus wfh
>basically have to do nothing work-wise
>finish education
>the absolute STATE of the industry, everyone's getting laid off, nobody wants another shitty junior webdev, nobody wants a junior dev in general
>i'm going to be jobless
Funny how life works, you throw your best punch but it's coming back twice as hard

[Anonymous No.52441362]

>>52437527
fpbp
semiconductors and everything around them is a fad. the future is no-code and full conductors

[Anonymous No.52441543]

>>52438877
>"IT" means "software development"
Are you a retard or over 50?

[Anonymous No.52441806]

>>52437545
I'm a bureaucrat and while I could have made more money at a tech firm, I also have tons of time off and I'm in a union that will guarantee my job for life.

So yeah, I live comfy off your tax dollars

[Anonymous No.52441887]

>>52437879
Up until the late 2000's, people that coded were people that actually enjoyed doing it as a hobby. They were all a bunch of passionate nerds that didn't care as much about the salary because it was what they enjoyed doing. Then when tech jobs started paying ridiculous sums of money, the elites decided to start gatekeeping it and giving all of the good jobs to their friends. If you became a coder at any point in the last 15 years, chances are you're just doing it for the money.

[Anonymous No.52442012]

>>52437879
theres always been no code.. excel you faggot

[Anonymous No.52442098]

>>52441887
>If you became a coder at any point in the last 15 years, chances are you're just doing it for the money.
Describes me perfectly, cannot wait to earn enough and build a divvy portfolio then fuck off doing something I actually enjoy.

[Anonymous No.52443775]

>>52437573
That would've happened by now the off shoring craze was the 90s 00s it's ogre. It turns out pajeet code crashes airplanes / boats.

[Anonymous No.52443841]

Most of the fired fagman employees atent even programmers

The useless jobs bubble is bursting

[Anonymous No.52443844]

>>52439099
Nobody hires c++ and assembly programmers it has been web dev, or one of the many full stacks. Maybe in the US there was demand in Australia there was nothing.

[Anonymous No.52443875]

>>52437520
10000 is absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous No.52443996]

>>52443875
true, 20,000 laid off is just a fraction of devs in the US. The market can easily absorb the 50,000 laid off due to unsustainable VC and FAANG bloat. Companies will always need software engineers and the job market is hot, 100,000 will be easily absorbed.

[Anonymous No.52444324]

>codechads
lmao

[Anonymous No.52444475]

>>52440694
>webdev

literally useless

[Anonymous No.52444504]

>>52437520
Still employed AT MSFT.
Have two other gigs.
I wouldn't call it overemployed (tm) but it's kinda like that.

Core product, good team, good commits and my total comp annually exceeds 500k. I do see mostly new hires, immigrants and people who are incompetent get hurt - e.g. UI/UX, Art Directors, Indian Imports/Pakistani , an PM/TM's, so th euseless staff.

The twitter fisaco, is just that - I will also say while my main role is MSFT, it is not "FAANG" and the two other clients I bill through my LLC are C2C in very boring industries that need automation/scripting/azure work.

I also am in a shitty niche, well it isn't shitty per se with the hours and able to juggle work and be full remote and work in JP/Bali/Thailand, but I consider the work I contribute too shitty since it isn't *rewarding* but, the money and freedom is.

[Anonymous No.52444644]

>>52440694
Good, you are scum and you are useless. Why not learn some backend stuf like C++, C# .Net/MVC, Python, Ruby, fuck even Vbscript, excel and macros are always in demadn if you know how to do a vlookup, pivot table and dashboards in powerbi, you'll be making 150k+ and have 2 hours of work a day.
Yet no, you go for the meme bootcamp shit of "I'M A WEBDEV" lol "I know HTML and CSS, I can format pages"

"~~WEEE LOOK AT ME GO IN DREAMWEAVER,~~ DESU."

You will never be a coder, fraud.

[Anonymous No.52444652]

>>52438373
The current crop of CS grads is poisoned. Fresh devs were never any good out of school, but they could, on average, learn how to do real work within a year or two under the guidance of a senior. That's not the case anymore. Most of the grads coming from anything less than a renoun tech university are just, incapable of doing the work. It's astonishing. Many of them can't solve basic toy problems. Some of them have seemingly memorized interview puzzles but melt the second you ask them to add a very simple feature to a line of business type application. These people still get hired, because businesses are desperate for the labor, but they don't make good software. They mass produce technical debt. More experienced and talented devs don't have the time to babysit, and wouldn't be allowed to anyway. Even if they were, I don't think it would help too much. Many of these factory stamped new workers just don't have the knack. They can memorize, regurgitate, and nothing more. That's what you get when the incentive for pursuing a career becomes primarily financial, with passion for the work being a distant second.

Everyone with experience can feel it. The towering burden of shitty design looming over the industry. The whole fucking economy runs on software, and the incoming wave of devs won't lower the need for actual talent. It will increase it. Any real engineer who knows what the fuck they're doing will be worth their weight in gold for decades to come.

[Anonymous No.52444664]

>>52444644
Whoa, sweet projection. Post your github

[Anonymous No.52445257]

>>52439709
I'm you but with five years. I get considered for senior positions, so if you have a bunch of side project experience I'm sure you could go for mid level. I'd probably embellish and add some years of "internship" experience