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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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5133356 No.5133356 [Reply] [Original]

>make 500k € from BTC
>be from spain
>any amounts above 60k€ are taxed at 47%
>not even counting having to pay 300€ monthly if you recieved monthly payments in exchange of BTC + aditional tax called IRPF
>didn't declare any of these so I would get an aditional 20%
>end up with a shitty amount that cannot even afford a nice house

How do I kill myself fast and cheap? it's over, you can't win, the system is rigged.

>> No.5133402

>>5133356
move to Asia and cash out and then move back

>> No.5133446
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5133446

>>5133356
i meant to say in exchange of services

i got paid in BTC, so if you make money monthly, you need to pay 300 fucking € to the state every month, irrespective of the amounts you are making

this is insane. i don't know why i did even bother putting so much effort into this. i'll never be a millonaire.

>> No.5133532

>>5133402
What the fuck for? I couldn't spend the money cashed out in some foreign shithole.

This country is awesome, the climate, food, everything, but the taxes are insane. I don't want to move to some fucking foreign place in a language I don't speak and no, I don't want to move to fucking puerto rico or some other latin shithole.

So to have 1 million€ in wich I could actually operate and invest in real estate, NEET stocks etc, my BTC holdings would need to be worth near 3 million €, in other words BTC would need to be above $100k

Just kill me.

>> No.5133575

>>5133356
I'm from Spain too, and you are wrong about taxes.

>> No.5133643

42% here. (Luxembourg)

>> No.5133730

>>5133356
>make 500k € from BTC
>not able to find legal tax-avoiding professional services in Spain

>> No.5133795

>>5133532
move there for like 3 months you idiot

then say you made the money in local business

and then move back

pay way less taxes

can smuggle some too

>> No.5133900

>>5133532
>I don't want to move to some fucking foreign place in a language I don't speak and no, I don't want to move to fucking puerto rico or some other latin shithole.
What about Chile or Colombia?

>> No.5133993

>>5133575
could you explain amigo? because i think im fucking right.

>>5133795
you are fucking retarded and watch too many movies.

brb moving into shithole 3 months then come back but wow i cant spend anything because it's on some foreign shithole bank account

>smuggle

I want real state, i cant smuggle


>>5133900
garbage. im not moving anywhere, i would end up depressed (even more).

>> No.5134018

>>5133730
there's no such thing

you are trying to hire boomers to tell you about bitcoin, they don't know shit, nobody does.

>> No.5134114

>>5133532
>can type in english
>too retarded to know that entire southeast asia speaks english

enjoy paying for merkel to keep packing mudshit terrorists into europe cuck.

>> No.5134319

>>5134114
>too retarded to know anyone that isn't a turboautist would be depressed at living in some shithole leaving your life behind your country
kys

>> No.5134332

>>5133356
Move to Denmark, Belgium or Slovenia for a while. These countries, well, apart from brussels are white and have 0% tax on cryptos. I'm going with Slovenia as the cost of living is extremely low and it's cosy af.

>> No.5134425
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5134425

>tfw Netherlands
>tfw 1.2% tax on cryptos (but only if you have more than 10.000 eurocoins in crypto)

>> No.5134515

>>5134332
but what's the goal?

i want to live here man, my entire life is built here, i dont want to leave

the taxes i would save, i would lose them in life quality

>> No.5134611

- Don't cash out everything in one year.
- If you're a NEET loser who's never had a job, see if you can retroactively use tax space from lower years.
- Open up a tax-free retirement account and put as much into cash or stocks as you can
- Convert it to Monero, use Monero to buy weapons from Serbia and then oust the government.

>> No.5134639

>>5134319
too much of a fucking faggot pussy to leave your home and get off mommy's titty. lol you are a fucking loser. Enjoy getting fucked up the ass by your government cause it's probably the only time you getting any action.

>> No.5134645

>>5134611
>lower years
I meant previous years

>> No.5134666

32% in my country when it's above 20k, I know your pain senpai

>> No.5134671

>>5134018
get lawyers who do inheritance

>> No.5134702

you're retarded it's not income tax it's capital gains dipshit, it's caped at 21%

>> No.5134756

>>5133993
You can transfer your own assets from one country to another for pretty much free if you earned the money legally in the other country and are a resident of that country for tax purposes. So this is what you do. You somehow get a visa for Singapore. Live there for more than 6 months of the year. Now you can declare you’re a resident for tax purposes. Now you cash out into a Singapore bank account as they don’t tax crypto, and then transfer it over to your Spanish account. You’re legally not a resident of Spain for tax purposes for that year so you’re not legally obligated to pay tax on your money.

>> No.5134842

>>5133356
if apple, microsoft, fb, and every other corporation can make an offshore llc to avoid tax, why wouldn't you? create a cayman's company, """donate""" your crypto to said company, the company trades it for fiat. congrats, you got 0% capital gain

>> No.5135090

>>5134018

We are slowly getting there...
>>5134756
>>5134842

Don't be a lazy mañana ass and do your homeworks...

>> No.5135179

cashing out in fiat is really dumb

he biggest gains in crypto aren’t from pumps but from inflation resistance over time

1 million euros loses almost 60% in 40 years vs. 2% yearly inflation

>> No.5135235

>>5135179
desu i wanna be able to cash out one day to buy a house

>> No.5135450

>>5134515
>the taxes I would save, I would lose them in life quality

Welcome to the 21st century.

>> No.5135468

>>5134702
seriously, this guy is an idiot if he can't figure a way to cash out.

>> No.5135572

>>5133795
Lol how stupid are you.
That advice is for neets making 5k not someone making 500k

>>5134332
This is not true. All of those tax crypto. Best bet is Bulgaria. Easy to get residency for EU citizens, 10% flat tax on everything, cheap as fuck

>> No.5135621

>>5134756
Singapore would be awesome but how do you actually get a visa without a job there??

>> No.5135699

>>5135572
>Best bet is Bulgaria. , 10% flat tax on everything
holy fuck it's true
also, you don't need residency as an euro, you only have to live there, according to spanish constitution you only are meant to pay taxes here if you live here over 150 days a year or generated your income in the country, I'm guessing it's similar on other countries, simply moving there for a year should be enough
what I don't see is how the fuck will you deal with the administration with their fake alphabet and thirdworlder language

>> No.5136042

>>5135699
Yeah I spent a lot of time researching this
Only countries that have guaranteed 0 % tax (on both trading and holding) are Monaco, UAE, Bahamas, Cayman Islands and similar Caribbean Islands. Germany, Singapore and others have 0% on Holding but not trading. Some countries (Thailand for example) even try to take VAT on trades, or try to tax trading as income.

So my conclusion was that if you trade, are EU citizen, the cheapest and most simple option would be Bulgaria. You simply hire a law firm to deal with all that stuff.

>> No.5136121

>>5136042
what about paraguay

>> No.5136128

>>5136042
Andorra has 10% too and it's only 200km away from where I currently live, aparently need a work permit first unless I go for the pay-for-citizenship, which I can afford before cashing out, maybe I'll try to get a job as shop clerk or something there, if I can avoid 100k+ on taxes it's worth

>> No.5136201

>>5136121
Yeah that one could be good too, they have territorial taxation IIRC so you just have to make sure your gains are not considered "local sourced" (you have to check with a tax advisor how this is determined, problem is that almost none of them understand crypto)
Also you can get permanent residency by depositing 5k in a bank there.

But for me it is really far and the bureaucracy there seems to be a pain in the ass.

>> No.5136211

1. don't tell anybody
2. go on holiday to thailand and make bank account there
3. cash out
4. go back to spain

*steps 2 & 4 entirely optional, you fucking pussy

>> No.5136231

>>5136128
Nice man, I looked into Andorra as well first, but the problem was the work permit. How much was the pay-for?

>> No.5136259

>>5136231
half a mil in real state or a company, 50k on bonds
I meant I can't afford it on my previous post, typo

>> No.5136283

>>5136201
ty 4 the info

>> No.5136295

OP im not in spain but i am close to your country.

Do business elsewhere, use a vp.n etc. they'll never know. im being legit here

>> No.5136298

>>5136211
1. In theory owe income tax on it in Thailand along with VAT.
2. Thailand implements AEOI in the near future
3. Tax authority in Spain will automatically receive all your account details from Thai Bank
4. Get audited for tax evasion

Do you really think in 2017 you can just hide half a million € very easily like that?

>> No.5136302

>>5136231
oh and something I've never found answered before and has been bugging me, aparently all countries ask for a minimum days of residency for that country taxation to be applied/mandatory, ranging from 90 to 200, what happens if you have a bank account offshore and just travel all year round? what country would come knocking for taxes?

>> No.5136344

>>5133356
> don't cash out to Jewiat
> Use BTC when it becomes common usage / spendable in anything you were wanting
not the best solution but hey no taxes.

>> No.5136365

>>5136259
Yeah neither can I then... I'm talking to tax advisors about Malta, but haven't received a reply yet how crypto taxation works there..

>> No.5136419

What about the language barrier in Bulgaria?
I need to stay there for at least 6 months during one tax year, or else I have to pay taxes in my home country.

>> No.5136442

>>5136302
Well that is a complicated issue and I'm not entirely sure. But I think it goes like this:

- if you just leave your home country and start travelling then you are probably considered tax resident there (because your strongest ties are there) at least for some years but this depends on your country. I'm not sure if you can be legally not resident anywhere, I think it's a gray area for now.

There are however countries where you can establish residency without being physically present. One example is Panama

>> No.5136453

>>5133356
>>be from spain

Start with this problem

>> No.5136471

>>5136419
I have no fucking clue anon, I don't know a single word of Bulgarian but I'm just gonna YOLO it.

I have heard almost all young people speak english there

>> No.5136522

>>5133993
Come to Chile, crypto is not regulated here. Go to a city in the south, (Santiago is shit) if you have money it’s a good place to live.

>> No.5136524

>>5135621
say you are doing a documentary or some shit

>> No.5136530

Come to portugal, faggot

>> No.5136799

>>5136365
apparently there are very limited quotas to residency through working permit

>> No.5136817

>>5136530
people tell me about portugal... can you ellaborate???

I hear good things about Estonia

>> No.5136911

>>5136799
Yeah that's what I thought
anyway good luck to you, fuck paying almost half of the gains from something as risky as crypto, when the money you put in has already been taxed once.

>> No.5137168

looks like OP already left, and of course he was a larping fag.
anyway, y'all niggas need to understand avoiding tax is different than evading tax.

>> No.5137296

>>5135572
>>>5133795
>Lol how stupid are you.
>That advice is for neets making 5k not someone making 500k
>>>5134332
>This is not true. All of those tax crypto. Best bet is Bulgaria. Easy to get residency for EU citizens, 10% flat tax on everything, cheap as fuck
Belgium does not have capital gains tax you retarded fuck
t. Belgian

>> No.5137349

>>5137296
>implying that bitcoin is not considered speculation and taxed under income tax

>> No.5137383

>>5134611
This guy gets it

>> No.5137503
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5137503

Why don't just build a virtual country with virtual law and virtual citizenship?

>> No.5137637
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5137637

>tfw live in state with no income tax
Feels gut my dudes.

>> No.5138022

>>5137503
secondlife

>> No.5138452

>>5133532
>Country that's great to live in has high taxes

Causes one to ponder

>> No.5138667
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5138667

>>5137637
Where do you live Senpai?

>> No.5138817

>>5133532
Move to Texas. Spend your gains on boomsticks, land, and cowboy hats. You already speak both languages that state uses. Also the shotguns you can buy there would do a number on your brain if that's still what you want.

>> No.5138850

>>5138817
>>5133532
Additionally, Texas has no income tax. Have fun, Anon.

>> No.5139028

>>5133356
Come to Slovenia. 0% tax... feelsgoodman.jpeg
we're in the EU btw, so you can come without passport

>> No.5139761
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5139761

Sell Bitcoin to people face to face.

t. Finn who sells it this way

>> No.5139895

>>5139761
And how do you prevent them from giving you fake money?

>> No.5139927

>>5139895
give them fake bitcoin

>> No.5139958

>>5139761
Who is this? Can I get a quick rundown?

>> No.5139964

Who the fuck cashes out?

>> No.5140063

>>5133356
If spanish law is similar to french law you can speand the year somewhere where the taxes are lower, cash out and come back in Spain the next year.
Study the question seriously, i doubt there is no way for tax evasion.

>> No.5140083

>>5133900

>Daddy spain, notice me senpai

why are you brown people so subservient to people from Spain? Just because you are brown and Spain raped your women doesn't mean you have to threat them like gods you know?

>> No.5140110

>>5133356
if you have 500k euro i have no idea why you haven't moved it through either a tax haven or just move

>> No.5140543
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5140543

>>>5134332
>the taxes i would save, i would lose them in life quality

Now think hard about what that tells you about paying your taxes

>> No.5140574

>>5140543
duuddee!!! I know this girl she fucking tried me before my gf. she has a kid now with some black dude