/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.50943815]

So, which is it ?
Wait, you ugh, you do own a hardware wallet, right anon ?

[Anonymous No.50943830]

>>50943815
Yeah, Xumm + tangem cards

[Anonymous No.50943850]

Ledger sends all your data to their servers and stores it 5 years, no thanks

[Anonymous No.50943865]

>>50943815

I own a trezor

[Anonymous No.50943870]

>>50943830
>TANGEM
what a fucking soi brand name lmao
the cryptospace is filled with faggot shit with cringe branding that I can't bring myself to use or invest in and I've missed out on a lot of gains because of it. it's a personal failing but I'll never be able to start buying "pancakeswap" or any of this faggot garbage.

[Anonymous No.50943884]

>>50943815
How are you guys moving from these hardware wallets , to trading on Cex and back quickly?

[Anonymous No.50943887]

>>50943850
Aren't they not even able to freeze the wallets ?

[Anonymous No.50943890]

>>50943870
Use p0ocoin like a real men

[Anonymous No.50943898]

Of course I do.

[Anonymous No.50943905]

>>50943887
What? Not even? Are they supposed to?

[Anonymous No.50943920]

>>50943815
Anon, look at the ledger leak and how they handled it. Don't fucking trust a French company.

[Anonymous No.50943925]

>trezor model t

as someone who owns the ledgner nano x i feel like it is the inferior product. i bought the nano x because it was on sale, but desu if you dont have much money then a software wallet works fine

[Anonymous No.50943947]

>>50943905
Obviously not, but see how binance is going and how ledger a one corporation giving you a service, especially linked to an app they develop, idk they could have

[Anonymous No.50943963]

>>50943815
this is a scam for retards who dont know how to make a paper wallet

[Anonymous No.50943965]

>>50943870
I think it sounds better than trezor, trezor always reminds me of the cereal

[Anonymous No.50943968]

ITT illiterate retards make up shit about hardware wallets again

[Anonymous No.50943969]

I like my ledger but I’m a newfag I only joined crypto around a year ago

[Anonymous No.50943974]

I have both a Trezor Model T & Ledger Nano X

There's good & bad with both

[Anonymous No.50944014]

>>50943965
I agree, trezor is also gay. Ledger nailed the branding and look but is a shit product.
>>50943963
>just buy a laptop and install linux and never connect it to the internet bro
or you could just buy a $70 trezor

[Anonymous No.50944047]

>>50943815
I own both, if I had to pick one i'd prob go with trezor, it's tough because the ledger has more compatibility with random shitcoins like hbar and rose.

[Anonymous No.50944072]

>>50944047
simple dont buy those shitcoins

[Anonymous No.50944092]

>>50943974
What would you say are the main pros and cons ?

[Anonymous No.50944111]

>>50943884
They don't. Hardware wallets are a holder scam to provide exit liquidity.

[Anonymous No.50944116]

>>50944092
trezor
>ugly
>called "trezor"
ledger
>proprietary secret code
>will probably steal all your coins one day

[Anonymous No.50944140]

>>50944111
it takes as much time as moving it from any hot wallet
do you think everything aside from keeping your coins on a CEX is a scam to provide exit liquidity?

[Anonymous No.50944226]

>>50944140
what you say where to store da goins?

[Anonymous No.50944412]

I own a Trezor. I love it.

[Anonymous No.50944899]

>>50943815
Shiftcrypto

[Anonymous No.50945029]

>>50943815
Yeah let me just put my keys on a small electronic device so that if anyone manages to steal that device they instantly have all my money. No thanks lol. I will stick to inputting my seed manually from memory onto a wallet with tails as my OS every time I want to do a transaction. If my keys don't exist anywhere in the physical world they can't be stolen from me. How much is on this "brain wallet", you ask? 2.2 million.

[Anonymous No.50945220]

>>50944111
How is it any liquidity at all when the coins are in a cold wallet

[Anonymous No.50945228]

>>50943963
> doesnt have his metamask hooked into his ledger so his wallet is secure but also easily usable....

[Anonymous No.50945253]

>>50943850
Ledger sends all your data including name and address to criminals

[Anonymous No.50945310]

>>50945029
Haha found the dipshit. Thanks for letting everyone know you’re a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.50945322]

>>50943815
I have a Ledger Nano S because I didn’t want the Bluetooth in the X. I just store it the same as my precious metal stash and move my crypto to it off the exchanges once a quarter.

[Anonymous No.50945411]

>>50943815
Personally prefer Ledger because it has a better UI and updates faster than Trezor (most notably Trezor took forever to update for compatibility with EIP1559). But honestly you can't really go wrong with either one of them as go-to standards.

Earlier this year I got a Keystone One and use it much more than my Ledger now. The fingerprint unlock is a much smoother experience than clacking away with a single button, the touch screen makes typing passwords actually viable, and the larger screen in general makes it so you can actually read the transactions you're approving. Trying to read a transaction on a small Ledger or Trezor screen is retarded to the point where most people don't even bother (which defeats the point).

As an added bonus it allows for Shamir's Secret Sharing backups (Trezor does as well but they're a pain in the ass to enter with a single button). They're much better and more secure than using a seed phrase backup.

>>50943884
Easy, you transfer funds from CEX to HW wallet and transfer back when you want. There's no difficulty at all.

>>50943887
>>50943947
Ledger literally has no control over your wallet. They're not a custodial service. They just provide hardware. It's like saying Apple can freeze your bank account.

>>50943920
Trezor also had a data leak. How a company handles customer data isn't really relevant to the security of the device they're selling. The roasties hired for community management and PR have no communication with the engineers making the product.

>>50943963
A hardware wallet is essentially a paper wallet that you can actually use. If you're an actual user of crypto and not a boomer buying and holding it like a stock then it makes sense to have a hardware wallet.

>>50945029
You put a password/pin on them, they wipe after 3 failed attempts, and some devices like Keystone have anti-tamper mechanisms that short the circuitboard if you try disassembling the device.

[Anonymous No.50945430]

I wasn't aware of it but coldcard also exist, anyone has it ?
>>50944412
>>50944899
What made you opt for that ?

>>50945322
I also thought that about the Bluetooth but isn't the 3-10 different cryptos in it at a time a problem for you ? Also what do you think about it being closed source and the data leaks ?

[Anonymous No.50945526]

>>50945430
>coldcard

Shit. Bad interface, bad form factor, bad compatibility (pretty sure you can only use it for BTC), overpriced for what it is.

>>50945430
You only need to download the apps you need. So if you only use BTC and ETH then you don't need to download all the other apps and create clutter.

Data leaks happen with everyone. That's just the world we live in. As along as corporations outsource their logistics (they have to if they want to compete) your information will be at risk. If Walmart can't avoid a data leak, Ledger and Trezor aren't going to be able to avoid them.

The question is how likely do you think it is anyone will find that information useful for anything more than sending you a phishing email. Nobody is going to barge into your house just because you own a hardware wallet, the risk to reward is so unfavorable that you'd have to be the most niggerish nigger to do it. Unless you're on Facebook constantly talking about how you have $5m in crypto there's no way anyone knows what you're holding. Buying a hardware wallet doesn't mean you're rich - most people who buy them aren't worth robbing. There are easier ways to make money if you're looking to break into someone's house and steal their shit.

[Anonymous No.50945528]

>>50945411
For everything it has do you think it being so "smartphoney" is a problem for the keystone ? I fear it would have longevity problems

[Anonymous No.50945581]

>>50945528
Not really. The first thing to go would probably be the battery, but it comes with a removable battery pack and gives you the option to use AA batteries in it. If anything else breaks down hardware wise I'm not worried because I have backups of my secret phrases. If my hardware wallet dies then I'll just get a new one and load it there.

But overall you're not using this thing like a smart phone so honestly it should be fine. I have devices from the early 2000's in my closet that still work.

[Anonymous No.50945698]

>>50945430
I only keep my long-term hold BTC on it and I don’t play the defi game so it’s not a huge deal to me. The leaks suck but it did not effect the security of wallets and it’s essentially a fact of life nowadays that your info will end up/is already in the hands of hackers, more likely through your work email than anything crypto related.

[Anonymous No.50945717]

>>50945698
Yeah, our data is stolen and sold all the fucking time. It really doesn't matter if Trezor and Ledger had data leaks. That's unfortunately just how modern life is lol.

[Anonymous No.50945805]

>>50944111
You dont know what exit liquidity means

[Anonymous No.50945839]

>>50945310
Clearly a sarcastic comment

Fuck biz is dumb. I feel like I'm in a daycare listening to dumb fucking kids speak when I'm on this board.

[Anonymous No.50945871]

Ledger is easier to hide up your ass if the glowies cone for you.

[Anonymous No.50945994]

>>50943815
I'd go with Ledger anon. I've had a smooth run with it so far and it would be getting hardware wallet support soon from Railgun which would increase the privacy level.

[Anonymous No.50946026]

>>50945228
>connecting ur ledger to metamask

Daring are we.

[Anonymous No.50946067]

QRDO is the real answer.
If you know you know

[Anonymous No.50946102]

>>50943815
you can only store erc-20 tokens in trezor. its fucking garbage.

[Anonymous No.50946241]

>>50946026
There's nothing wrong with connecting your Ledger to your Metamask, that's kind of the point. All Metamask does is tell your hardware wallet what transaction you're trying to do, and your hardware wallet pushes it through Metamask, Even if you were on a malware infested machine with a fake Metamask, connecting it alone wouldn't do anything. The worst thing that can happen is Metamask displaying a different transaction than it actually requests from your wallet, but that's why you need to screen the transaction on the hardware wallet itself instead of trusting the Metamask UI.

[Anonymous No.50946288]

>>50943815
>So, which is it ?
Ledger.
ONLY buy a Ledger from Ledger, not Amazon or any other third party that had opportunity to tamper with the device.
Seed phrase in two safety deposit boxes,

[Anonymous No.50946400]

>>50946288
Oh right this is a good point, only use official sites to buy these devices.

Ledger:
https://shop.ledger.com/

Trezor:
https://trezor.io/

Keystone:
https://keyst.one/

If any of them come pre-set up with a wallet then it's tampered with. I don't know about the safety deposit box advice considering someone from the bank can potentially steal your shit without leaving any real evidence so that's a risk factor. With physical belongings you can tell if they jacked your Rolex or something. With a seed phrase they only need to snap a photo and steal your shit months later when the security footage was already wiped and you'd have no clue how the fuck you got robbed.

If you do this I would recommend a Shamir's Secret Sharing backup instead. They would need at minimum 2/3 of your scattered backups to get access to your wallet. More if you're schizo (4/6 for example). With this setup you can keep one list at home and one in different security boxes. If someone gets one security box for whatever reason, they still need either your home list or the second security box's list to access your funds.

Keep in mind this doesn't help you in the increasingly likely scenario in which the government forces their way into you house/boxes. But that's a different can of worms to protect against (and possible if you aren't storing your backups in easy to find spots)

[Anonymous No.50946772]

hardware wallets are decent hot wallets with extra security, but they're still just hot wallets unless you take extra precautions that render the hardware wallet itself useless.

[Anonymous No.50946871]

>>50946772
are you retarded, hardware wlallet is able to sign transations whitout exposing the private key, unlike metamask or any hotwallets that carry your private key in some encryptoed document in your phone/ PC.

[Anonymous No.50946874]

>>50946772
Half true. They're more like 2FA in a sense to your transactions (so long as you never enter your seed phrase anywhere outside of your hardware wallet and don't do something stupid like import your metamask wallet into it).

It will still be a huge barrier of protection from something like downloading a malicious file, which can wipe out your entire metamask or steal your seed phrase. It WON'T protect you from falling for a scam where you submit a Set Approval For All transaction to a malicious contract. But that's more of a case of user error, because you aren't properly screening your transactions before confirming them. When using your hardware wallet you should make sure you're reading what you submit because there's rarely an opportunity to cancel it.

In the above scenario you only lose a portion of your holdings (whatever the hell you approved) and the rest of your holdings are safe. Especially if you separate your funds into multiple wallets on the same device. Meanwhile the kind of exploits that target Metamask are likely to entirely wipe you out.

Hardware wallets are just generally a must for anyone who has any significant money in crypto. They're cheap, just get one and save yourself the headache. But for sure learn how to actually use it if you plan to.

[Anonymous No.50946931]

>>50943815
Ledger but mine is old. It only has memory for like three different coins. That is trash.

[Anonymous No.50946936]

>>50946871
no, theyre just dedicated hot wallets

[Anonymous No.50947617]

>>50946026
see >>50946241, as he is correct

>>50946102
really, I never even looked into it I was going to buy one for the lulz but now I wont.
Which ever hardware wallet supports KDA first will be bought by me. Im assuming it will be ledger, in that case Ill buy another nano X just to hold my KDA

>>50946067
sure but how do you control that... right a hardware wallet...

[Anonymous No.50947641]

>>50946288
I would actually hit that. I feel sick for saying it but damn even her his face is cute

>>50946400
you can put your own lock on a safety deposit box
you will know if they got into it.
Most banks have a bank key, then your key. then within that there is an a U bolt type thing on a standard lock box on the box that comes out. You put whatever lock you want on that.
Remember that in 1933 they confiscated gold from safety deposit boxes though.
in 2033 theyll be saying we'll take your BTC and give you BTC certificates lul

[Anonymous No.50947651]

>>50946288
I want that man to suffocate me with his ass

[Anonymous No.50947930]

Trezor is pretty much all open source. Crypto would not exist if it weren't open source. Trezor also lets you input a passphrase easily from your computer instead of having to type if from those 2 shitty little buttons on Ledgers.. Trezor has pretty shitty coin support though. Outside of BTC, Eth and ERC-20 tokens, it doesn't support anything.

[Anonymous No.50948223]

>>50947930
>BTC, Eth and ERC-20 tokens, it doesn't support anything
to be fair to trezor that's essentially 85% of the entire non-speculative utility of crypto.

[Anonymous No.50948231]

>>50946874
>Hardware wallets are just generally a must for anyone who has any significant money in crypto.
"significant", but not too much, because as stated they're not as secure as cold wallets.

[Anonymous No.50948301]

>>50948231
How is a ledger not a cold wallet? You don't need to connect it to the internet?

[Anonymous No.50948322]

>>50948301
even if that was true, anything connected at any point to anything connected to the internet isn't a cold wallet.

but ledger explicitly doesn't work offline, in fact it's firmware/apps are updated with a direct link to ledger's servers.

[Anonymous No.50948376]

>closed-source trezor
>open-source ledger
>56 replies

[Anonymous No.50948416]

>>50943815
Ledger

[Anonymous No.50948612]

atm i just have all my shit on zksync using the argent app
worth getting a ledger?

[Anonymous No.50948853]

>>50947930
>Trezor is pretty much all open source
This. Not going to trust ledgers closed source to not rug all of the wallets, they probably have a glowie backdoor

[Anonymous No.50948956]

>>50948853
the problem is trezor are vulnerable to backdooring by anyone who has physical access as easily as ledger could backdoor their own devices.

[Anonymous No.50949268]

I have both

[Anonymous No.50949402]

both
you need some cheap cold wallets laying around your house if the fresh new 87k irs niggers come by so they won't need the lethal force to steal a few satoshis

[Anonymous No.50949581]

>>50948322
Ledger can work offline just fine, you don't need a firmware upgrade for it to use it. Take it out of the box, generate your wallet, and never plug it in.

That being said you're being too anal about the cold wallet terminology. A cold wallet is just one that you generate and never really use. You can effectively use a passphrase on top of your seed phrase to generate cold wallet addresses that never interact with any PC at all. In fact that's what many users do to create vaults.

There's nothing a ledger can't do better than generating a paper wallet (that's the term you're looking for desu). If you're looking for security above a hardware wallets then you're looking into multisig storage, not paper wallets.

[Anonymous No.50949614]

>>50949581
you clearly don't know ledger's software architecture.
my terminology isn't my terminology, it's basic industry stuff since before bitcoin even existed.

>A cold wallet is just one that you generate and never really use.
you should just stop posting because anybody following your advice is going to make a mistake.

[Anonymous No.50949634]

>>50947641
Exactly. My main concern is mostly government overreach more than someone getting your phrase from the deposit box. I personally have never used one so I'll trust your rundown of their security. I only recall hearing stories of jewelry getting robbed from safety deposits so assumed there's a chance (even if small) someone get get to it.

But the thought of government foot soldiers confiscating your seed phrase is fucking sickening to me. There's nothing you can do once they have it. You can try moving your funds away to another wallet but chances are they'll have you in custody first with no access to a computer while they pilfer every last dime from you under some bullshit Citizens Protection Act or whatever. Call me paranoid I guess, I can't trust my phrases in a place they can be traced to me.

[Anonymous No.50949645]

Ledger literally lied to their customers about the extent of their data breach meaning whoever had their hands on the 250k name and home addresses could have put those people in danger and they wouldn't even know that they had to be careful because the company is scummy and would have rather saved their brand than the people and their money/lives

You don't give a company like Ledger second chances, that is absolutely disgusting and it's also cringe reddit from all the marketing they did there

[Anonymous No.50949718]

>>50949614
Your seed phrase can't get leaked from your ledger. Regardless of how virus infested a machine you plug it into. If you're that worried about a ledger then get something like a Keystone which doesn't even have a usb port.

>you should just stop posting because anybody following your advice is going to make a mistake.

What kind of mistake? Properly securing their funds? If you can find a single instance of someone's seed phrase being leaked via Ledger I'll understand your argument but you're just being pissed off by semantics. We're discussing security here.

[Anonymous No.50949953]

>>50949645
This

They also collect and store unneccesary data making them a privacy nightmare, even without leaks

[Anonymous No.50950010]

>>50943815
Why would you use a glorified USB stick over few metal plates stored separately using visual cipher only you know?

[Anonymous No.50950465]

>>50943850
Ledger is the only hardware wallet that hasn’t been cracked. Seethe more.

[Anonymous No.50950728]

>>50945430
>What made you opt for that ?
I trust the mountain jews (Swiss) and I find the design looks better than trezor or the cheaper ledger.

[Anonymous No.50950885]

>>50949718
>What kind of mistake
the line i literally quoted above that sentence.

[Anonymous No.50950903]

>>50949645
even ignoring all of that, any company that claims to offer you security but has a page on their site about "diversity" goes into the trash.

[Anonymous No.50950966]

I bought a Ledger before the leak. Opened the Notepad file expecting to find myself but instead I found my neighbour

[Anonymous No.50951002]

>>50950966
did you pay with bitcoin or some other alt? it sounded at the time like only those who paid with a card got leaked.

[Anonymous No.50952446]

>>50950010
Because this glorified stick can sign your transactions and the keys never leave the stick. Try signing every transaction by hand and see how fun that is

[Anonymous No.50954045]

>>50950465
Based. The bottom line is Ledger has been efficient. I just found out that it would be getting hardware wallet support from a privacy protocol. Anticipating.

[Anonymous No.50954180]

I have a ledger nano and trezor model t. Obviously the trezor is much better. But it doesn't support as many chains so I have to use the ledger sometimes. What pisses me off about the ledger is there is no way to easily type in different passphrases. On the trezor you can just type in the passphrase on the computer so I can access multiple wallets really easily. On the ledger you can only store one passphrase, and if you want to change it you have to manually type it in on the device using the shitty UI that is tedious as fuck and takes forever.

[Anonymous No.50954300]

>>50943870
>He hasn't experienced the feeling of buying random shitcoins his buddies made for shits and giggles only to see it do a 100x

[Anonymous No.50954533]

>>50948956
>the problem is trezor are vulnerable to backdooring by anyone who has physical access
Does this matter? Devices are traditionally considered compromised if someone gains physical access to them regardless of what they do. This isn't unique to crypto. If I had a Trezor that I knew someone else had stolen, I'd immediately be trying to restore my wallet to transfer everything into a fresh, newly created wallet anyway.

[Anonymous No.50954681]

Reminder that there are no coins stored on any device or paper. The fake internet money is on the block chain and all your own the seed phrase. You bought random words. Words.

[Anonymous No.50954836]

>>50954533

Right I don't understand it, just use a passphrase and don't store it on the device. So if it gets lost it doesn't matter if they can extract the seed, its useless unless they can crack your passphrase too.

>>50954681

You aren't buying seed words, you can configure a hardware wallet to use any seed words you want. You are buying a hardware device to sign transactions so your seed is never exposed to the computer. You can plug a hardware wallet into a completely virus ridden computer and safety use metamask to make trades in defi or w/e and its 100% safe as long as you verify the transactions on your hardware wallet.

[Anonymous No.50955090]

>>50943815
>paying $70 for an encrypted USB
just buy one from Wal-Mart for $5 and encrypt it yourself. I'm amazed people actually fall for this dumb marketing

[Anonymous No.50955153]

>>50955090
And how are you going to generate your seed phrase? On a $150 offline computer? Congrats, you own a more expensive hardware wallet.

[Anonymous No.50955436]

>>50955153

You can generate them with dice.

>>50955090

A USB can't sign transactions. The purpose of a hardware wallet is to sign transactions without exposing to the key to the computer. A hardware wallet is like a really convenient air gaped computer for signing transactions.

[Anonymous No.50956170]

>>50943815
Sure thing, I do have a hardware wallet where I hodl scrt and atom. Is there anything wrong with that, anon?

[Anonymous No.50956241]

>>50955090
>just buy one from Wal-Mart for $5 and encrypt it yourself
Is it really worth it. The Secret privacy TEEs is a cool strategy that I follow

[Sage No.50958529]

>>50954836
Well said. Its appalling how many people on this board dont understand the basics of hardware wallets.