why did communism fail? (non pozzed version please)

[Anonymous No.50442624]

[Anonymous No.50442682]

because enough reasonable people realized they don't like their lives and thoughts micromanaged by an authoritarian government. They prefer to own their own property, build things, and raise families rather than being forced to arrange furniture on the titanic

[Anonymous No.50442686]

>>50442624
lack of government oversight in the right areas and too much government oversight in the bad areas. slow feedback networks for policy changes. also the inherent corruptibility of all forms of government.

[Anonymous No.50442725]

>>50442624
Same reason why most startups fail. Bad management.

[Anonymous No.50442727]

In a nutshell:

Communism and capitalism were both an experiment to see what would kill the human spirit the fastest. Under communism people were happy, family bonds were very strong, which was a danger to the state. Under capitalism however, people became individualistic, divided, and easy to control. So capitalism had to be the way forward, and communism was killed through propaganda and stories of famine and bloodshed, to make sure nobody would attempt it again.

[Anonymous No.50442728]

>>50442686
>the inherent corruptibility of all forms of government
its hopeless, we are doomed to be rentier debtor slaves forever because people are selfish, greedy and easily corruptible

[Anonymous No.50442742]

>>50442624
not tried yet

most communists still believe all value is created by labour

[Anonymous No.50442748]

>>50442727
thanks anon, v interesting take

[Anonymous No.50442754]

>>50442728
>people are selfish, greedy and easily corruptible
I'm not.

[Anonymous No.50442762]

>>50442624
Stateless and classless? It could never happen in modern societies. It's absurd.

[Anonymous No.50442765]

>>50442624
Simply: because it runs contrary to Average Man's natural predisposition. Average Man, when posed with the choice, will choose every time to enrich himself. If he has the option to make $10 if 100 strangers in his vicinity will each lose $50, he will take the $10 and feel happy because he has gained. He just doesn't care that, as a group, that little community has lost $4990. We're all trapped in a multivariate prisoner's dilemma in which the actions of a very small minority of bad actors could fuck over everyone else.

Some people say that real communism hasn't yet been attempted. Sure, they're not wrong entirely. Even if a country wants to be communist, it's incredibly hard to overcome both Average Man's basal, selfish instincts, and the glee of other countries at finding an exploitable resource. Counties that have attempted communism have all, exclusively, resorted to authoritarianism — always intended, of course, as a transitive philosophy in order to ensure the transition — but fall prey to the same impulse outlined above, except instead of being corrupted by greed for material, they become corrupted by greed for power itself.

It's not that communism sucks. We have no way of knowing, really. It's more that people suck, and that's a problem for which there is literally no solution.

[Anonymous No.50442772]

>>50442624
The whole idea of communistic parties is that the whole economy is planned and runned by the government. Surprise, surprise - the communistic government is just as corrupted, bloated, inefficient and power-hungry as the capitalistic one. And, due to the much larger concentration of power, it is much more ready for extreme options of getting rid of their political opponents and suppressing the dissent.

[Anonymous No.50442828]

>>50442765
>Counties that have attempted communism have all, exclusively, resorted to authoritarianism — always intended, of course, as a transitive philosophy in order to ensure the transition — but fall prey to the same impulse outlined above, except instead of being corrupted by greed for material, they become corrupted by greed for power itself
yes, right, i think history has shown this to be true

[Anonymous No.50442848]

>>50442624
Its flawed in its core.
The erroneous determination and description of the mistakes and anomalies and errors in society.
Malicious evil framing of everything bad and evil on royalty, nobility and clergy.
Naive and piss poor solutions to problems.
Naive and irrational ideology based around women as equal to men which is madness and destroys socialites in itself.
The authoritarian model that it always devolves into that tends to be against the best interests of the majority, as in Russia where Russians were the biggest victims while other ethnicities had less oppression, murder and exile towards them.
Or in Yugoslavia were Serbs where the oppressed and exiled and murdered minority. At the cost of national and ethnic and religious interests of the majority the minority reeps benefits like a parasite until the system becomes unsustainable and destroys itself.

Replacing God with the party.
Replacing king with chairman of hte party
Replacing clergy with commissars of the party
Replacing nobility with the red bourgeois

[Anonymous No.50442913]

>>50442624
It’s anti human nature and usually run by psychotic Jews who just want to power trip and kill goyim

Communists are subhuman retards who deserve nothing but brutal suffering and pain

[Anonymous No.50442917]

>>50442624
Nepotism, corruption, poor cultural values, poor management, no meritocracy makes for poor leadership/ resource allocation by planners.

Society can thrive under different systems, but if resource allocators are incompetent due to poor selective process/ no meritocracy it all comes crashing down.

crony capitalism, communism etc.

I guess that's why China hasn't crumbled yet, they put a spin on communism and unqulified party memebers were made aside (after killing millions) and nowdays most of the party decision are educated and with proven records managing small positions before stepping up, nepotism is still rampant but they attempt to curb it/control it.

[Anonymous No.50442920]

>>50442624
After you seize wealth from the wealthy, within a single generation it ends up right back into their hands again.
Poor people have a tendency to always be poor, rich people have a tendency to bounce back regardless of circumstances.

[Anonymous No.50442935]

>>50442624
I don’t want to be that guy but it’s true that REAL communism hasn’t been tried yet. What it needs is a disposable, automated, and obedient workforce for it to actually work. I can honestly see the world adopting communism once automation is complete

[Anonymous No.50442937]

>>50442913
humanity existed for hundreds of thousands of years as small tribes/bands of hunter gatherers that pooled resources to survive. you can observe this in "lost tribe" communities today. keep sucking that circumcised jew cock, retard.

[Anonymous No.50442946]

Human are not bees or robots and won't accept equality. The problems with the human race is that it is human.

[Anonymous No.50442976]

>>50442624
Economic calculation / local knowledge problem, the information required for rational economic calculation in a planned economy is inaccessible and therefore there will be an inefficient allocation of resources and labor e.g. your preferences are inaccessible to the state because they are in your mind.

[Anonymous No.50442987]

>>50442937
>humanity existed for hundreds of thousands of years as small tribes/bands of hunter gatherers that pooled resources to survive
Well, you just perfectly outlined the boundaries of the communism - the small community where everyone knows everyone else (~150 people, according to the modern science).
If you want to exchange the resources with someone who you don't know (and therefore cannot trust) you need money and market.

[Anonymous No.50443008]

>>50442828
If there is a solution, it's in social change. It's in teaching children selflessness is virtue. It's just as hard a lesson to teach kids who get picked up from school in daddy's Mercedes as it is to teach kids who go home to single-parent households in destitute ghettos that have been the economic victims of people who were selfish. The idea that greed is good has been a blessing for the advancement of the human race, but will be a disaster for its future.

An argument you always hear when this topic is discussed is the idea that capitalism has worked to bring us this far. You would have to be an idiot to deny that, but you would also have to be an idiot — if we do actually care about the human race — to miss the cracks in the foundation. A lot of people seem to think that since capitalistic greed has gotten us where we are, we must therefore blindly follow its tenets until the precise point at which it doesn't work anymore. It's myopic. It's letting something break completely before you think about fixing it.

I believe in preventative maintenance.

[Anonymous No.50443030]

>>50442624
human nature will always get corrupted

[Anonymous No.50443032]

>>50442624
Communism is so contrary to human nature that it necessitates an authoritarian state to maintain. But it turns out the kind of top down management of all facets of an economy is impossible for any governement to manage well. In the end, the cons far outweigh the pros, and people get fed up with it, or the gov goes full totallitarian mode and oppresses the shit out of everyone to maintain the power structures that formed.

[Anonymous No.50443059]

>>50442987
agreed. you can't fight dunbar's number.

[Anonymous No.50443097]

>>50442624
Bad incentives, why would I work well if that doesn't make me more money?

[Anonymous No.50443119]

>>50442624
It's based on a false Ideal - Equality.

[Anonymous No.50443136]

>>50442725
This is the thing people don't get about capitalism, it's suppose to fail if it's not effective, and who actually does succeed is suppose to be doing their job properly. Today's weird world is like if someone took the worst aspects of communism and put it together with the worst aspects of capitalism to make a corporate welfare state where money is spent on poor management and little return is given to anyone but a few bad managers.

[Anonymous No.50443142]

>>50443008
>to miss the cracks in the foundation
Name them.
>>50442976

[Anonymous No.50443151]

Communism needs an all powerful centralized state to function, and that all powerful state will never be anything other than corrupt/greedy/oppressive.

On a small village level, a commune could work in practice, but it would require a dedicated group of genuinely hard working, reasonable, cooperative people, and as it happens communists aren't like that.

[Anonymous No.50443154]

>>50443008
Thinking that you can come up with a better system that works in real life is hybris, plain and simple
That's what Marxists tried and hundreds of millions had to de to prove that communism doesn't work

[Anonymous No.50443165]

>>50442727
Communism has nothing to do with family bonds, infact family is considered Fascist by a lot of leftists, and it is a proven fact that people are happier under capitalism, no one was escaping West Germany to go to East Germany.

[Anonymous No.50443167]

>>50442728
Chainlink solves this.

[Anonymous No.50443209]

>>50443142
>economic riots in the streets, abstracted into race
>inability of the middle class to afford housing
>growing and generalized inequality in terms of access to basic goods and services
>Detroit
>Baltimore
A couple. Step away for a second and try to look at the big picture. Are cities full of drug addicts and criminals and shattered windows the picture of a successful society? I really want to avoid delving into politics and ideology here. If it's possible, I'd prefer that you respond to this answer in the context of the points I've made in the prior post instead of trying to bait me into arguing politics.

[Anonymous No.50443255]

>>50442765
>communism failed because le human nature

This argument is so low hanging fruit. Get some new material

[Anonymous No.50443286]

>>50443255
Haven't been able to pick all the low hangers yet. Damn tree grows them as fast as you can pluck the things.

[Anonymous No.50443357]

>>50442624
Because if humans had the integrity and morality needed to make communism work, you wouldnt need to force them into it. The fact that it needs to be forced by government means that it will inevitably be corrupt and fail.

Communism/socialism is the natural state in a caring high trust social group (such as a strong family unit), which will only ever exist on small scales.

[Anonymous No.50443462]

>>50443165
Youre thinking of hippie lefties, not communists.

[Anonymous No.50443471]

>>50442624
Society operates less efficiently under communism. The labor theory of value is not necessarily far from reality, but it ignores the labor produced by capitalists. Capitalists perform the labor of delaying gratification, saving, reallocating, and organizing other labor to make the economy suit the needs of the majority of consumers. If you try to do this by public council or democracy instead (as marx and others suggest) you go nowhere because not everyone has the leadership capability.

[Anonymous No.50443474]

>>50443209
All those can be attributed to state intervention and the increasing monopolization of the market that it has caused.
Welfare, taxation, intellectual property monopolies, regulatory capture, zoning laws, permitting, occupational licensing, anti-discrimination laws etc.
Monopolies cannot form under a free market due to diseconomies of scale and competitive forces.
>>inability of the middle class to afford housing
>>growing and generalized inequality in terms of access to basic goods and services
These can be attributed to monopolies and the aforementioned laws they lobby for, which would not be possible in a capitalist market free from intervention.
>Detroit
>Baltimore
>economic riots in the streets, abstracted into race
Welfare and desegregation.

[Anonymous No.50443503]

>>50442624
equality and egalitarianism are impossible while scarcity exists

you can have your awesome star trek future once we get fusion and replicators

[Anonymous No.50443517]

>>50442624
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBeuuFt_meg

[Anonymous No.50443525]

>>50443357
>Because if humans had the integrity and morality needed to make communism work, you wouldnt need to force them into it.

Exactly. We are soulless whores.

[Anonymous No.50443545]

>>50442727
Wrong, both communism and capitalism are based in the same fallacy: people are born equal. They aren't, period.

[Anonymous No.50443567]

Realistically, there would be only two ways of successfully implementing communism, eugenics/transhumanism making all humans selfless and intelligent, or a post-scarcity economy with automation.

[Anonymous No.50443590]

>>50443545

Capitalism actually works because people aren't equal. It's to each according to their ability and ambition. People like to whine about rich legacy inheritors but those all started with some great man who built a company or product or industry that ended up helping us all.

Anyway, "capitalism" isn't real there is only a natural free market. "Capital" is just resources and those have always been the chief driver of human ambition.

[Anonymous No.50443659]

>>50443590
If free market was natural, it would exist in nature.
The fact that it doesn't shows that it can only exist under very certain circumstances which are provided by human Institutions

[Anonymous No.50443688]

>>50443659
>If free market was natural, it would exist in nature.
It does exist in nature. Even fungi/trees trade goods and services. Are you scientifically illiterate?

[Anonymous No.50443696]

>>50443474
I like to take a pragmatic view where possible. I find that people who promote the solution to all problems, if only we could just institute a more ideologically-pure version, are usually less interested in the problems themselves than the problems with respect to this constant ideological war in which they're participants. In particular:
>Monopolies cannot form under a free market due to diseconomies of scale and competitive forces.
This is pretty detached from reality. The problem is not what could or couldn't form. The idea isn't to go back and change what caused these problems at the earliest possible instantiation. I mean... yes, do that, but a truly free market at this point, with corporations as strong as they've ever been, would just to unleash them.

I feel like you're just rattling off the same things you always say because you think they cover all the bases in this constant war of ideological supremacy between the isms. List a bunch of ways in which greedy politicians have been (probably unduly) influenced by greedy businesses and greedy people. These are problems, absolutely. The solution is not stricter adherence to any ideology. There are simpler factors at play here, and they could be addressed in that way.

[Anonymous No.50443715]

>>50443659

It does. Animals are constantly evolving to one up each other and assert resource supremacy over an environment or a niche. They don't all agree to cooperate and mind their business or whatever.

[Anonymous No.50443728]

Anti commie literature that should be mandatory reading.
sealed train by michael pearson
disinformation ion mihai pacepa
Roy Brewer
JRR Tolkien — ‘Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin good forces have invented or made’

[Anonymous No.50443753]

>>50443728

How about you just take a look at this

[Anonymous No.50443815]

>>50443151
Such "communes" existed before agricultural revolution, they were basically nomadic (stateless) tribal groups, after such groups got introduced to agriculture, they settled in villages, still living like a big family, mostly living an agrarian lifestyle, eventually these villages expanded, social hierarchy formed as a result for need of security from raiders, work got divided, social classes emerged, we saw formation of kingdoms and empires, Economy became more mercantile too, farmers started doing exporting their produce.

One thing to notice here is that the early tribal groups were highly homogenic and socially, ethnically and racially equal, apart from sex based there was no other division of work, while in kingdoms we saw social classes form, and Empires were mostly multi ethnic, we even saw multi racial Empires for example the British Empire.

Communist ideology is nothing but an attack on the social system that emerged with Human Progress - Communists believe that they can form an efficient and equal "tribal" group (Proletariat) out of multiple mostly heterogenous groups (Internationalism) that they consider oppressed by destroying everyone else.

Communism fails to form it's utopia because :-

1. It has no idea about anything regarding Economy, it only manages to destroy what worked - capitalism, by destroying it's social system. This often leads to economic crisis, famines, riots, repression and mass murder.

2. The only concern of Communism was to achieve, "Equality" for all the oppressed groups by turning them into "Proletariat", this fails miserably too, as these groups were never equal, they fail to form high trust sustainable society, the early tribals naturally had because of ethnic and racial homogeneity.

We already saw the whole thing play out in Soviet Union, Cambodia and Yugoslavia.

[Anonymous No.50443841]

>>50442624
They attached statism to it.

Seriously, are there ANY legitimate communists anywhere?

[Anonymous No.50443853]

>>50442624
It didn’t fail. Jews had all power, goyim were virtually slaves. They just couldn’t force it on most people via force

[Anonymous No.50443863]

>>50443688
>>50443715
Free market entails voluntary exchange of goods and services between all participants.
Neither Symbiosis nor natural selection fit this definition

[Anonymous No.50443869]

>>50442624
Jewish scam to kill russian farmers and nobelity.

[Anonymous No.50443887]

>>50442682
thats possible under communism. the idea isnt no one is allowed to get ahead, its that no one can be left behind and we support that by disallowing gross amounts of wealth beyond rational means. billionaires don't need to exist.

[Anonymous No.50443899]

>>50443462
The real Communist Marx had largely nothing to say about family as far as I think, same with lenin, Stalin promoted children that betrayed their parents. Revolutionaries often are anti family, because family becomes a bastion of resistance, even Jesus commanded his followers to abandon their families.

[Anonymous No.50443918]

>>50443165
>infact family is considered Fascist by a lot of leftists
you know how i know you eat a lot of seed oils?

[Anonymous No.50443931]

>>50443841
Closed religious sects living in the wilderness are the closest to the definition of the communism.
But communists don't want to work hard and be equal, they want to be a part of nomenclature.

[Anonymous No.50443949]

Communism failed cause lack of jews, capitalism failed cause to many jews. Ponder that one

[Anonymous No.50443956]

>>50443753
Spain has a wealth tax, most of Europe is a form of socialism. they all provide free healthcare.

[Anonymous No.50444098]

>>50443209
>Detroit
>Baltimore
>economic victims of people who were selfish
I reject this solution as resource inefficient.

You have two types of corn. Both grow in soil. Both yield better harvest when given fertilizer. But one type of corn yields less than the other. Is the solution to allocate more fertilizer to the low yield corn so that their yields may equalize? Of course not, you're better off just not planting low yield corn in the first place.

So how do you fix cities full of drug addicts and criminals? Unironically eugenics. The solution of "dump money into them and buy better people" is unsustainable from the standpoint of how much it would cost to uplift them vs how much they would be able to pay back after being uplifted.

[Anonymous No.50444131]

>>50443567
There is no such thing as "post scarcity". We have finite resources.

[Anonymous No.50444181]

Jews dumped it because they saw it's easier to control goyim via vices and addictions than by force.

[Anonymous No.50444185]

>>50442624
People need to believe they have power even if they don't. That's not how communism works.

[Anonymous No.50444205]

>>50443956

Yes, Europe has some social services, like America. But they're not communist. Stfu retard.

[Anonymous No.50444217]

I see lot of anons claiming that gommunism is all well and good, but problem is "human nature". It is hard to overstate how stupid is that thought. If you have an idea which goes against the human nature and then you decide to implement it anyway...I mean, how stupid are you anons?

[Anonymous No.50444234]

>>50443863

Do you not have any imagination or ability to think abstractly, in that you can't see a line between the competition and evolution in the natural world and the competition and evolution in the human free market?

Anyway, it's still natural. Before history was written a man traded a thing for a thing or a service for a service or a thing for a service, this is how humans interacted, before states were formed and started their own versions of intervention.

[Anonymous No.50444251]

>>50442624
Couldn't solve the economic calculation problem.

[Anonymous No.50444312]

>>50443696
>This is pretty detached from reality.
>but a truly free market at this point, with corporations as strong as they've ever been, would just to unleash them.
>The idea isn't to go back and change what caused these problems at the earliest possible instantiation.
Monopolies are inherently inefficient and would collapse without the advantages that they possess in the current market as I had explained in my post. You don't understand something and start pulling unsubstantiated claims out of your ass and putting words in my mouth.
>feel like you're just rattling off the same things you always say because you think they cover all the bases in this constant war of ideological supremacy between the isms.
I hold no bias, if you cannot make an argument then I have no reason to assume that I am wrong.

[Anonymous No.50444317]

>>50443956
Yeah and they also have a free market, privately owned means of production, all those taxes and regulations have lead to formation of big legacy corporations, inefficient bureaucracy, huge unemployment and stifled innovation.

And despite all of this Europe was and is richer than any communist hellhole.

[Anonymous No.50444332]

>>50444205
wel lthe whole idea behind communism is to cap people from becoming too wealthy, so it has that in common with communism. America's social services are a joke compared to the EU

[Anonymous No.50444369]

>>50444251
based.

[Anonymous No.50444372]

>>50444332

You don't understand anything about anything with this post lmfao

>the intent of communism is to make sure people don't get too rich