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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/biz/ - Business & Finance


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50304516 No.50304516 [Reply] [Original]

Why are these companies so fucking brain dead.

>just pay 5500 subscriptions a month

Was tolerable when 1-3 subscriptions got you everything even if it cost a little extra. Now i rather go back to torrenting or just tightening my belt and spending it on a vacation

>> No.50304537

retards have no choice. they pay the seats or they don't because they're poor and not buying a beemer anyhow.

>> No.50304538

>>50304516
>bro the free market will undoubtedly provide alternatives to this abhorrently jewish behavior

>> No.50304558

>>50304516
U VILL OWN NOTHING

>> No.50304572

>>50304538
>the overton window exists
>but it only applies to politics and not to businesses
>muh heckin jewish corporationinos wouldn't do that to us

>> No.50304603

>>50304572

People will find alternatives after a while.
Like i said im already back to torrenting.

Torrenting was more effort than it was worth when netflix was decent now its way worth the effort

>> No.50304611

tried a monthly internet subscription once, canceled it. Subscription services are scams, never going to use their products

>> No.50304662

>>50304603
i also torrent everything. but you can't really torrent physical goods. these kikes need see what extreme physical violence looks like, before things get out of hand.

>> No.50304680

Why though?

>> No.50304703

>>50304662

You cant torrent physical goods but you can bet your ass people when faced with 500 subscriptions a month will just start to save up money to spend on other larger ticket items instead.

Or maybe the average consoomer is just a fucking stupid retard. I have faith. It was like this with cable for a long time

>> No.50304718

>>50304680
Because people will pay. Simple as.

>> No.50304741

>>50304703
3D printer x gun schematics, you can download everything you need for physical manifestation

>> No.50304768

>>50304516
>you will live long enough to be able to roll a loot box for a 30 day heat seat subscription

>> No.50304775

>pay money for a company to change a 0 to a 1

kino

>> No.50304856

>>50304516
>subscribe to heated seats only during winter
>cancel rest of year
>save 80% over buying them outright
BASED

>> No.50304904

>>50304516
>normalfags will subscribe
>I will get the cheapest model and pirate all the premium shit
I'm not complaining

>> No.50304966

>>50304603
>Torrenting
>effort
Fucking christ zoomers are retarded.

>> No.50305261

>>50304603
>People will find alternatives after a while.
Not if all companies collaborate and move in the same direction, eg, smartphones without headphone jacks, TVs that connect to wifi, subscriptions to play console games online, etc.

>> No.50305273

>>50305261
Anon, collusion is illegal under anti-trust law. The government will protect us!

>> No.50305364
File: 47 KB, 800x450, proxy-image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50305364

>>50305273
>The government will protect us!

>> No.50305395

>>50304966

Im not a zoomer. Nobody can argue that torrenting is lower effort than netflix. Tard.

>> No.50305434

>>50304516
>Why are these companies so fucking brain dead.
they aren't
this will milk the goyim well
anyone smart will pirate it

>> No.50305458

>>50304603
getting a netflix subscription and logging in is more effort than torrenting you retard

>> No.50305477

when you lock physical things behind a digital subscription, you just allow people to literally download a car

>> No.50305510

just jailbreak your car lmao

>> No.50305526

>>50304662
I'm sure if you go deep enough into .ru domains you'll find a crack to unlock heated seats for your BMW

>> No.50305537

>>50304516
How much is that in Euros?

>> No.50305538

>>50304516
It'll bite them in the ass. They'll have to build cars with all the features built in, but software locked. People will find a way to unlock the features for free. They'll fight back with retarded measures like "critical updates" that ruin the experience for everyone while attempting (and failing) to stop those advanced users from doing what they want to do. (see: Windows)

Then another company will come along, and will offer all features seamleslly integrated when you buy the car, for a higher price of course, but it'll be worth it. True luxury will be having all features, without having to fiddle with settings, suscriptions and/or updates. (macos)

Yet another nail in BMW's coffin. First they got rid of driving enjoyment (getting rid of rwd, manuals and easy to read round dials wherever possible) and now they're getting rid of the last remaining bit of "luxury" they could offer. Too bad.

>> No.50305592

>>50304856
>Buy a car with heated seats
>pay extra to use them in the winter
>save zero money because you don’t actually own the car you bought.

>> No.50305717

>>50304516
Didn't Toyota do something similar with key fobs a while ago? How did that work out?

>> No.50305735

I'll subscribe if the seats are warmed by a fat redhead's farts

>> No.50305765

>>50305717
I also recall Tesla locks some speed features and their driving AI behind a paywall too.

>> No.50305856

They’re going to use chainlink oracles to confirm when you have paid the subscription fee so a smart contract can activate your seat warming.

The possibilities of smart contracts are endless

>> No.50305860

>>50304516
this says a lot about the desperate straits some of these corporations find themselves in. shit out of ideas and shit out of luck

>> No.50305897

Lots of poor people ITT holy shit

>> No.50305899

>>50304516
also, how is this even legal? if i buy a car that comes with heated seats, then i get to own a car with heated seats, right? how are they able to charge extra for something i already bought?

>> No.50305918

>>50304538
This is the free market solution. It's cheaper overall to offer the feature on all models than it is to have to part out options. I don't know why this bothers people so much

>> No.50305939

>>50305273
Kek exactly my thought after reading that.

>> No.50305945

>>50304516
Stop blaming businesses wanting to make money. No, the companies are not brain dead. No, the girls on OF are not stupid. Blame the fucking retarded customers for paying for shit like that.

>> No.50306299

>>50305735
> I man k baba?

>> No.50306304

>>50305395
Oh you just must be a dumb faggot who doesnt onow how tobuse software and scripts. Enjoy your subscriptions.

>> No.50306419

>>50304516
normies will eat this up like the free food in Costco. Look at the gaming industry, 10 years ago the only DLCs was expansions in games, now you have loot boxes, pay 2 win mechanisms, exclusive skins which can only be bought with cash, battle passes. Normies are the mass market and if they latch on then other maufacturers will see the money and they themselves will add it.

>> No.50306454

>>50305918
>a perpetual license with the overhead costs of maintaining the software licensing scheme on top of the item itself is cheaper than buying the item itself
dumb nigger

>> No.50306487

>>50306454
Yeah welcome to manufacturing dipshit. Enjoy your stay

>> No.50306551

>>50305458

No it isn’t you autits just use computers different to everyone else.
Netflix either always logged in or password saved. Just fucking search the title on whatever device and done.

Versus:
Google torrent site
Search movie
Check if its trustable
Check quality you want
Download

How in any world is that more simple you fucking moron. Now what if you were watching it on a smart TV or an xbox?
You are either trolling or autistic.

However faced with billions of subscriptions yes that will become worth the effort

>> No.50306603

>>50304703
>You cant torrent physical goods
Someone will jailbreak the heated seats in a month.

>> No.50306612

>>50304516
>buy subscription for 1-2 months in the winter
>cancel
>forget car even had the feature next year because never use it

>> No.50306631

>>50306304

>hurrr people who dont kno how to code their torrents adont understand that its more simple coz i coded muh torrents to make it more simple

Are you braindead or doing that on purpose?

>> No.50306645

>>50306612
>schlomo shekelstein, corporate counsel, writes the agreement such that you can't do that
12 month minimum subscription, no prorated refunds. it's in the ToS. thanks for playing, goy.

>> No.50306667

>>50306603

I can see it happening.
Then one day the police arrest you for having heated seats without a subscription kek

>> No.50306688

>>50306603
Someone’s car will alert the manufacturer of a warranty violation.

>> No.50306733

>tfw your bro somehow has all his car dlc without having paid anything
>tfw your bros car plays really good chiptunes sometimes

>> No.50306910

>>50305945
Based.

>> No.50306980

>>50304904
>Going 85mph down the interstate
>... beep boop Subscription Audit... FAILURE
>Car immediately shuts off in road
>Get turned into mush by 18 wheeler

Powered by Chainlink

>> No.50307073

>>50305538
2nd hand luxury BMWs, by the time they are on the market long enough for Ivan Hackers to get their hands on, are an electronic lottery, a shitheap of components, moonlander wiring looms and fucked up control protocols and code about to go south. You'd need to be a hacker just to keep the fuckers on the road.

>> No.50307229

>>50306551
>google torrent site
Sure thing bud.

>> No.50307542

no i get the subscription model but how does that work for an automobile company as reputed as BMW?
i mean i can picture Amazon doing it, Apple doing it, hell even Binance or marketplace like Artlink to sell more NFT merch but yo?

>> No.50307604

>>50307229

Pirate bay mirrors.
Dont tell me being oart of private torrent sharing sites is “more simple then netflix” next with all the requirements. Kek. You autists i swear.

The fact its getting harder to google torrent sites is another reasons its not as simple, and if you dont want your ISP tracking it then forget it, its a straight up pain in the ass but pretty much worth it at this point due to the landscape of streaming

>> No.50307692

>>50306419
bro everyone hates that, remember when EA had to do max damage control for the new battlefronts game? a % of the population will not mind doing this, however the vast amount of people will outright refuse. Its just heated seats now but they will tack on super cruise, max ac, and just about any other "up grade" you can think of. Toyota tried to do this with the remote start and people went mental so they backed off, for now.

>> No.50307717

>>50305899
It’s legal to do this because you are agreeing to the proprietary software running the bmw.
However it is also legal to modify the software of your bmw. They figure enough people will pay without bothering, and they are probably right, at least in the shorterm

>> No.50308409

>>50305538
Where do linux chads fit into this comparison of yours?

>> No.50308517

We should've nuked the Krauts instead of the Japanese.

>> No.50308589

>>50304516
>$18/mo
Or I pay $2 and make a jumper with a two-postion toggle to have a traditional set up.

>> No.50308637
File: 195 KB, 361x362, top kek.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50308637

>>50306667
You WILL pay for the heated seats, and you will be happy.

>> No.50308680

>run wire off positive terminal of batter
>unplug heated seat harness
>connect wire from battery + ground wire
>add a toggle switch inline somewhere you can reach
>profit?
Who the fuck do these people think they are?

>> No.50308717

>>50308409
thats just the guy who will rather diy it than pay corp extra.

>> No.50308755

>>50304611
Honestly, yeah - you'd be surprised how productive you can be without internet or things that suck your attention over useless stuff.

Real crux I find myself, being in IT, needing internet and enveloped in useless crap like this website.

Dialup days were based. Slow, hard for instant gratification, actual need to learn protocols and text based posting.

I should increase the friction of these sites on my router, blocking them just means I'll unblock them but if I write a quick script that'd randomly assign a value to load a bad site would be fun.

Then I can configure it as an app and sell it.

Call it slownet or something, push it under productivity and such. Like a reverse shadowban.

Thanks, anon! I knew this /biz/ board was good for something!

>> No.50308766

>>50304516
This is the globohomo shit that IOT and blockchain will create. They can only limit access to your usage of heated seats if the device is connected to the internet for them to shut off if you are not subscribed

>> No.50308793

>go to buy car
>does this car have any subscription shit on it?
>yes
>go buy different car
the problem will solve itself if people dont buy them

>> No.50308808

>>50308409
dremel, rocker switch, relay.
heated seats are stupid simple, just force them on.

>> No.50308823

>>50308766
>go to buy car
>cost of car PLUS heating elements in seat and the controls for it are included in the cost of the car
>need to pay extra to use them
FUCK bmw and anyone who buys this shit.
Its probably because like 80% of BMWs are leased so they figure people are already just borrowing the car anyway

>> No.50308844

>>50308517
Why? They make better cars. Japanese cars are plastic garbage designed for manlets.

>> No.50308860

>>50308808
>Start car
>check engine light comes on
>SEAT ERROR
>HEATER ERROR
>VISIT WORKSHOP
>BATTERY DRAW FAULT
>Get in accident
>car catches fire
>sorry bro your warranty is void because you modified the seat and that caused the fire
>insurance doesnt pay either

>> No.50308878

>>50308844
>Turkaroach detected
japs are honorary whites.

>> No.50308898

>>50304516
Any idea how this works. Guessing the car connects to a server? Just wondering for future microcontroller projects and such.

>> No.50308927

>>50308898
When your GPS connects it probably checks your heated seat looicence too.

>> No.50308938

>>50304516
I have absolutely zero subscriptions. Get on my level.

>> No.50308956

how is this not satire?
i will keep driving shitboxes unconnected to the internet until civilization collapses

>> No.50309000

>>50308860
You are talking about a few watts draw
its undetectable with current battery tech
Stop being a pussy bitch faggot

>> No.50310256

>>50306551
Literally use the search bar of qbittorrent fucking retard
>muh trust
It's fucking videos and music. If you torrent software you are indeed retarded.

>> No.50311200

>>50304516
What if I shortwire my seats?

>> No.50311599

nobody going to mention the real hidden cost is clothes prices going up and it costs like 300 for one full wool shirt because there is only 1 craftsmen in america who still makes something

>> No.50311659

>>50304516
I can understand companies charging a monthly fee for shit like remote ignition (to preheat car in winter and precool in summer), because they need to pay to use the mobile service providers to do that. But paying to be able to use a function that is already installed in your car is downright retarded.

>> No.50312060

>>50308808
>>50308717
We win again, who coulda thunk it.
t.linux+e46 masterrace

>> No.50312142

BMW turning into EA

>> No.50312196

>>50304516
How to kill any 'luxury' or 'quality' brand illusion you have left in one fell swoop.

>> No.50312226

>>50304516
I'm never buying a car. Shit like this is why. From all the spyware, EV bullshit to this sorta garbage it's just not worth it.

>> No.50312278

>>50308680
Another component will be monitoring the seat controller and will disable the car if it either detects seat turned on when it shouldn’t be, or detects seat controller offline.

>> No.50312323

>>50304516
Tesla did a number on the legacy car companies. Now they all want "Software as a service" revenue just because Tesla Margins are on the level of Ferrari with a tier 2 volume production

>> No.50313083

>>50307229
>>50307604
Here's /g/'s site regarding private trackers.
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Private_trackers
Really isn't too hard. I belong to one movie/tv tracker and a music tracker and they provide everything i need.
I have a server with many TBs of space and content that I serve to friends and family.
I have zero subscription services and only pay for an internet connection.
Fuck up the subscription service model.

>> No.50313090

>>50304516
>2030
>go to bmw dealership
>sales robot greets me
>car ownership is illegal but they can give me a 5 year lease for $75,000/mo
>check LINK price, $6,000,000
>lease car
>get in car, need to download neuralink app for it to turn on
>leave dealership, drive on road, car stops accelerating at 55mph
>neuralink app tells me i need to purchase the Highway Driving Bundle for $49.99/mo to access higher speeds
>accept, drive on highway for a while, it starts raining
>try to turn on wipers
>neuralink app makes me buy the Rainy Day Package for $69.99/mo
>accept, drive on highway
>its getting chilly in the rain, try to turn on heat
>nothing comes out
>neuralink app offers me the Cold Weather Package for $49.99/mo
>accept, asks if I'd like to upgrade to the All Weather Bundle for an additional $29.99/mo (includes the Warm Weather Package, a $49.99/mo value, plus unlimited fan use)
>need to pick up cricket burgers for dinner, drive to store, parking spot is open near the front
>pull into spot, turn of car, starts rolling forward
>wtf, step on brake
>neuralink app tells me the Parking Package with unlimited parking hours is $99.99/mo, or I can pay by the hour for $1.99/hour
>buy the monthly package, go to store, grab my burgers
>cop is waiting for me outside
>I parked in the reserved trans/BIPOC space, car automatically detected this and informed the authorities
>arrested and charged with a hate crime
>on the way to the jail neuralink app informs me that ive breached the terms of the contract and will be charged the full 5 year fee for all subscriptions and banned from car rentals for life

>> No.50313511
File: 223 KB, 597x579, emojipocalypse.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50313511

>>50313090

>> No.50313716

guess I won't be buying BMW again.

>> No.50313960

>>50304538
>another car company offer the choice for free
>get more sales

There you go

>> No.50314069

youtube: how to jailbreak your bmw! 5 easy steps!

>> No.50314208

I bet that if you were to remove the seat and put one of your own, with a heater you bought yourself, they will sue you over it
If you have to keep paying for it, the car was never yours in the first place

>> No.50314614

>>50313960

In an econobox brand (kia, ford, opel, peugeot) maybe, but premium manufacturers im not so sure. Also afaik car brands a lot of the time are owned by the same parent company (seat, skoda, vw) so it'd be false competition a lot of the time.

>> No.50314983

>>50305395
>register an account and add credit info
>search where the new hype show streaming
>oh no it's on the other platform
VS
>download torrent software and use the inbuilt search
such effort

>> No.50315111

>>50314983
The fact that you autists watch movies on a laptop instead of a fucking smart TV is what separates you completely from the normies and you don't even realize it

>> No.50315120
File: 9 KB, 252x163, 1327610220783.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50315120

>>50313090

>> No.50315230

>>50305918
I'm not usually one for MUH PLANET bullshit but a corporation that makes you buy shit that you don't even plan to use and yet somebody made it and some resources were wasted to build it and now it's in your car doing nothing, that corporation isn't very good for the planet

>> No.50316322

>Pay for it when they put it in the car
>Pay them again monthly to make it actually work
Fucking nah, cfw that shit. Edit the config file from a 0 to a 1 fucking borderlands 2 style

>> No.50316416
File: 129 KB, 1200x791, 1657671013558.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50316416

>>50316322
>Running CFW on my PSP back in the day
>Will one day in the not too distant future run CFW on my car via an exploit where you have to turn the wheel at a specific angle and honk at a set time
This timeline is a fucking joke

>> No.50316563

>>50308680
>he thinks it won't be canbus controlled

Nothing is simple anymore. Fucking ABS sensors in Ford pickups have electronics built into them now.

>> No.50316706

>>50315111
I'll check those trips but you're a special kind of stupid if you can't connect your laptop to your tv

>> No.50316707

>>50313090
You joke, but I guarantee the future won’t be too far off from this.

>> No.50316735

>>50305538
Good. All the BMW drivers I’ve met are nouveau riche cunts

>> No.50316776

>>50304516
be a shame if bmw dealerships started to burn to the ground. for no reason at all.

>> No.50316811

>>50304516
If I didnt have a kid I would buy one of those old ass muscle cars that don't have to deal with any of this new bullshit

>> No.50316845

>>50308844
Yuropoor cars are a meme and they call it the Toyota War for a good reason

>> No.50316927

>>50313960
Ever heard of "cartels"?

>> No.50318476

>>50316706

You dont get it.
You neets do this because you are POOR. i used to do it because it was a ripoff not to and a massive headache.
When Netflix and streaming arrived it became very simple to do and pretty damn cheap so i was happy to pay for the service. It was always more simple. Yes i used to connect my laptop via HDMI. I used to even burn dvds for an old TV. It was a pain in the ass before streaming services.

Now streaming services suck dick and are getting expensive to maintain them all for shit quality. Its becoming a pain in the ass having to hop around them all even on a Smart TV which is how most people view it.

Its finally becoming more simple to torrent again.

>> No.50318864

>>50310256
you're an autistic faggot.

>> No.50320807

>>50304516
Only Americans have 20+ subscriptions, that country needs to go.

>> No.50320828

>>50304966
>le youngins
Yeah you’re so high iq with your torrents and 5 lines of C++ you know how to write. You’re and autistic nerd and you’re not impressing anyone but your hyper inflated nerd ego. Enjoy hell.

>> No.50321107

>>50305918
You say that, but invariably this shit turns into trying to do physical DRM with a microprocessor and extra complexity, on a fucking seat heater, trying to make it a monolithic component so you can't easily bypass the subscription. It's just adding more things to break for people who pay for a thing which should just be standard.
This is a demonstration of the failures of a free market. It's the most profitable solution, but not the most efficient one for society. People tend to forget that's why capitalism is useful. The profits are supposed to be a side effect of making real improvements to society.

>> No.50321129

Torrenting and shit was cool when I was a broke teenager but I can't imagine still doing this at almost 30 years of age. Amount I spend on streaming subs (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, HBOMax, Showtime, Paramount+) is literally less than the amount of money I make in one hour of work.

>> No.50321135
File: 169 KB, 650x1290, rent bills.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50321135

>>50304516
another one for my list
I hope my landlord (parasite) does not raise my rent this year

>> No.50321291

>>50304516
This is quite literally the “you will own nothing and you will have sex with bugs and be happy” plan.

>> No.50321361

There's already probably 10+ shops in my city that exclusively deal with "coding" luxury cars.
$150 dollars and they plug in a laptop to jailbreak your car. Unlocks things like remote start, closing the trunk with the key fob, remove the speed limiter, seatbelt chime removal. For extra you can get new features like changing the headlight brightness or being able to watch youtube while driving on the screen.

The free market always finds a solution and anything with a chip always has a vulnerability.

>> No.50321637
File: 271 KB, 709x357, 3B203120-84A9-447D-94AB-44A831EE0182.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50321637

>>50316416
>in the future you’ll need to pay careful attention to cars on the used market to ensure it’s exploitable to install CFW
How did the future end up so fucking gay

>> No.50321678
File: 66 KB, 659x609, 164223446.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50321678

In the future my qom bags will pump massively
and that's based as fuck

>> No.50321750

>>50316735
They're either some midwit ceo, gorilla alpha retard or poor ass dude pretending to be some german mutt rapper who has a leasing contract.

Funny to see them overtake at any occasion just to end up at the same red light.

>> No.50321784

>>50321361
Tell that to John Deere tractor owners, fucktard

>> No.50322043

>>50304516
Could they make a fee to have a functional non piece of shit car every month. Vanos shitty seals shitty transmissions etc.etc.

>> No.50322248

>>50304516
Yeah I'm sure when I can afford a BMW ill be fine spending the extra $18 a month as well.. I want a benz anyways

>> No.50322300

>>50308755
dat ID t h o

>> No.50322427

>>50304603
I am 42, i have never payed for anything online. I listen to music on youtube and download games an movies on the pirate bay. If i want a woman i go to a bar and seduce one. Young people are completely mad.

>> No.50322499

>>50304516
and hmm who is going to be administering those monthly prescriptions using blockchain tech??

don't sleep on VeChain, VET and VTHO incels

>> No.50322513
File: 16 KB, 452x225, VET.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50322513

forgot the pic lol. buy now or cry later you thicko nazis

>> No.50322734
File: 34 KB, 600x600, 1498022868788.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50322734

>>50322513
>>50322499
insulting people to buy your shitcoin isnt really gonna work, harpreet

>> No.50322776

>>50306980
>chonklank™

KEK FUCKING DEAD

>> No.50322786

>>50304516
>Was tolerable when
This was your mistake. Now these are the consequences you get to live with.

>> No.50324494

>>50304603
I don't get it. Do you watch several tv shows at the same time? Just subscribe each month to what streaming service you need. Simple as

>> No.50324520

>>50308755
shut up boomer

>> No.50324550

>>50304516
You will own nothing and you will be happy

>> No.50324662

>>50305458
>what are session cookies
Tbh i don't consume any media besides porn which i pirate.

>> No.50325133

>>50316563
kek this. they'll likely have some sort of authentication scheme in hardware that disables the heated seats unless it's unlocked with an authentication key. they make ICs specifically for this purpose.
>well i'll just bypass it by hotwiring the seat with a switch
yeah until the MCU detects an authorized load on the interior power rail and shuts it down.

>> No.50325193

>>50304516
Marx warned us of this. Welcome to late stage capitalism.

>> No.50325305

ill hack it and break out a switch for 19 dollars....checkmate nigger

>> No.50325316

makes me wonder if there is a workaround to just send electricity to the seat directly from the battery via a toggle switch.
then that makes me wonder if the ECM has some sort of expensive sensor to know if a workaround has been implemented that would shut down half the cylinders in the car for the drivers safety

>> No.50325476

>>50325316
>then that makes me wonder if the ECM has some sort of expensive sensor to know if a workaround has been implemented that would shut down half the cylinders in the car for the drivers safety

it would be trivial to implement. current sense resistor that's sensed by the MCU. you can do this to every "optional" device in the car, a single multiplexed ADC to monitor the current draw. user doesn't have access to the peripheral and the MCU sees a current draw? shut it down for """safety"""" and throw an error code that can't be reset by anyone except a dealership technician with access to a proprietary tool.

>> No.50327577

Hardware on a subscription is just asking to get stolen or hacked.
> t. I have a couple free e-scooters

>> No.50327602

>>50305538
Japan became #1 in the late 70's largely through selling cars with all options as std equipment while detroit was still upcharging for carpet and back seats. It'll bite BMW hard.