Debt is Healthy

[Anonymous No.49287137]

Who else here are DEBT MAXIS?
Lines of credit, margin loans, mortgages, hell yeah I'm gonna finance that new gaming PC! Debt is fucking great! All my real money can go into income producing/appreciating assets while I just live and play on other people's money while paying <5%. Meanwhile inflation eats away 8% by itself and my investments yield over 15%.
Maybe the Jews are onto something here, guys.
Pic related; this nigga doesn't know shit.

[Anonymous No.49287216]

What are you into that yields 15%?

[Anonymous No.49287409]

>>49287216
overall it's actually a bit higher than that, mostly VOO (boring shit) and Tesla and Bitcoin (been in for a while). I also have some covered call etfs (JEPI / XYLD) generating monthly income and a bit of growth that I use to make payments on my margin loan. They cover the loan +extra so over time the cc etfs pay for themselves.

[Anonymous No.49287475]

That's a man

[Anonymous No.49287587]

>>49287137
Cool dude. Are you a debt millionaire yet or just in the hundreds of thousands?

[Anonymous No.49287657]

>>49287409
Thanks anon

[Anonymous No.49287706]

>>49287137
based but what going to happen when you can't work and pay anymore?

[Anonymous No.49287910]

>>49287587
I'm still a little fish, but I live in a low cost of living area so my money goes further.
>>49287706
ideally that doesn't happen but if I were to be unable to pay anymore and risk losing everything in my life? Oh....I could think of something

[Anonymous No.49289973]

Bump

[Anonymous No.49290049]

This should be a general thread. Debt will destroy a person if they simply use it to consume temporary things. However if you are disciplined and use that debt to buy cash flow producing assets you can literally live from doing nothing.

This is how wealthy people operate. They rarely own anything out right. They just lease and as OP said the yield from his investments that he purchased with debt are outpacing the interest rates.

I've been working on building my credit limit because I'm trying to hit a 100K total limit. Then with various balance transfer cards I can effectively have a 6 figure loan for 12-18 months at only 3% APR which is the balance transfer fee in most cases.

I could easily get 10% and insurance on a protocol for stable coins or simply buy a crypto in spot and then short an equal amount so I'm delta neutral. Then just work the position down as I pay off the cards. Of course a loan would be easier but if I churning 100K in cards for crypto my limit will go fucking sky high. Kek Just from the funding fees alone of going short, you can make an 20-50% APR. Longs pay shorts most of the time.

[Anonymous No.49290065]

>>49287137
debt is good in a bull market
foreclosurs and bankrupcy happen due to debt in a bear market

[Anonymous No.49290071]

>>49290049

Also buying real estate on debt is legit. FHA loans can get you a duplex for fucking 3.5% of the home value down. For an FHA loan though you must live in the home. You rent out the other side and use it to only pay the interest on the loan and bank the rest of the capital. DO NOT pay down equity. You can easily get a return higher than the FHA mortgage loan. You want to put as little equity in as possible right now the housing market is next in line. Kek

[Anonymous No.49290114]

This rich dad poor dad bullshit is great until you get wiped out.
That guy himself laughed at people using his own strategy during the bubble, they got wiped out and he bought all their cheap houses.
You are taking on the risk for the banks.
You have to be comfy with going bankrupt if things go even a little bit wrong.

[Anonymous No.49290139]

>>49290114
How would you get wiped out? If the value of the home goes below what you took out the loan for?

[Anonymous No.49290209]

>>49287137
>All my real money can go into income producing/appreciating assets
Like what?

[Anonymous No.49290217]

>>49290049
>Debt will destroy a person if they simply use it to consume temporary things. However if you are disciplined and use that debt to buy cash flow producing assets you can literally live from doing nothing.
This was basically the entire point of the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

[Anonymous No.49290281]

>>49287409
Explosive. Will blow up.

[Anonymous No.49290310]

>>49290217
Yes but it’s risky if not done properly. You can experience crashes and shitty periods even for safer things like buying real estate and renting it out.

[Anonymous No.49290418]

>>49290139
depends on how much debt you take you'll be counting on income from maybe tennants who can't pay becasue economy is fucked and they lost their job, house value crashes, because people are selling to get money and there are no buyers you can't pay back loan, have to sell your house at a loss... etc

[Anonymous No.49290528]

>>49290217
He wrote a whole book to say that?

[Anonymous No.49290591]

I wish I could buy hash power on credit. If I could automate it and knew exactly what I was doing AND could guarantee that I'd get the hash power then I'd buy it with credit and then take out a short on the BTC secure the profits at the current USD price. Once all the mining is finished and I received the BTC I can close the short and sell the BTC for USD and do it all over again.

The other idea I had to churn my credit cards would be to simply buy a bunch of mining equipment and use the yield to pay it down. Hell if I'm mining BTC I don't even need to sell it potentially I could just borrow against it to pay down the loan or CC. I wouldn't do that with a CC though unless I had a 12 month+ 0% APR Intro deal, which is easy to get though.

Either way utilizing futures would allow me to guarantee certain profit margins if I started now. You go delta neutral with the mining and then buy out of the money option calls on BTC with 1-5% of your mining yield for actual exposure to BTC. It works really well over a long period of time. Most of the options will expire worthless but just a few being successful in a year can be huge for overall returns

[Anonymous No.49290627]

I just want a good boy score so I can get a cheaper mortgage.

[Anonymous No.49290658]

>>49290627
>I just want a good goy score so I can get a cheaper mortgage.

I fixed it for you, but yeah I feel you brother.

[Anonymous No.49290671]

>>49290049
This is right. Debt is poison to the average person but, cruelly, it's also the key to becoming rich. Debt is wealth. That specific juxtaposition is indicative of a wider thought-pattern that fundamentally underpins an "enlightened" or "elite" mindset. The inversion of values. "Without contraries is no progression". If you want to understand how the uppermost echelons of society think, start there.

[Anonymous No.49290740]

>>49287475
she's beautiful

[Anonymous No.49290768]

>>49290671
>The inversion of values. "Without contraries is no progression". If you want to understand how the uppermost echelons of society think, start there.

It reminds me of the Redemption through Sin that Rabbi Zevi preached in 1666. Apparently they thought that they could order to force God's hand to intervene in Earthly affairs if everyone was full of sin. They figured that would be easier than creating a planet full of virtue apparently.

Yean I remember that supposed Rothschild larper/poster said that elite groups are here from other worlds to purposely add the "negative" in society so we can overcome it more or less.

[Anonymous No.49290904]

>>49290768
>It reminds me of the Redemption through Sin that Rabbi Zevi preached in 1666

Yes, you'll hear about Sabbatean Frankism in various places (like /pol/), and usually in conspiratorial tones, but Zevi was participating in an intellectual tradition of 'contrary negation' that stretches back long before him. For instance, it's present in Christian Gnosticism, and latterly in Blake and Hegel. It's essentially a piece of deep, received wisdom that's cropped up at various times to various flavours of intellectual. You could argue it starts in Genesis, which portrays mankind's coming into the "knowledge of good and evil" - in other words, our recognition of the difference between them - as "original sin". In practical terms, I don't think most elites truly engage with the idea on a religious or metaphysical level. It's more about developing a mindset or pattern of thinking that transcends simplistic "opposites". In business terms, that's the key to their success.

[Anonymous No.49291856]

>>49290114
Doesn't really matter if you are young because you can just declare bankruptcy and start over lol.

[Anonymous No.49291945]

absolutely subversive

[Anonymous No.49292341]

>>49291856
This is another strategy that is overlooked. You can declare bankruptcy on credit card debt but say not student loan debt. You could potentially pay down your loans aggressively for a couple years and only live on credit cards making bare minimum payments. Then slowly just default on the credit card debt and pay it back pennies on the dollar.

Sure credit card companies might try to suggest you tried to "play" the system but honestly how can they? They will look at your purchases and see it was organic living.

[Anonymous No.49292414]

>>49287137
Using debt to acquire gaming PCs and other misc bullshit is retarded. Use debt to buy assets, it's like investing 101.
I've used various types of loans in the past to invest. I see no reason to stop.

[Anonymous No.49292469]

>>49290114
I've had other debt in the past like balloon loans but currently I only hold 2 traditional loans, one collateralized and one non. Both of them are 7 year terms. I think one is 5% and one is 12% which is high but the way I look at it w/ inflation + what I will be using the money for it's fine.

[Anonymous No.49292474]

>>49287137
Yeah me too.

50k buy house worth $500k.
Rent covers interest. Positive $2k a year.

4% not bad... market goes up 40%. Just made $200k.

Rental crisis add another $50 to rent. Now making 8%.

Borrow $250k buy another property.

Market looks week.gov pumps it (aus bro)

[Anonymous No.49292584]

>>49292469
>12% which is high but the way I look at it w/ inflation + what I will be using the money for it's fine.

That is high what is producing better returns?

[Anonymous No.49292682]

>>49292584
Buying crypto in the bear market or even SPXL.

[Anonymous No.49292723]

I'm really interested in this thread because right now its insanely easy to get credit. We should compile the different strategies

I still think buying a bunch of BTC miners and then shorting the amount of BTC you'd earn after a 12 month period is the safest play. You can lock in a specific amount of USD yield to pay the the interest on the miners and rinse repeat.

I was thinking something that produced cash flow to pay down the debt but if you already have income then taking the loan to lump sum purchase an asset and just waiting is a valid strategy as well. A bit more risky but much better returns if successful

[Anonymous No.49293030]

Not being afraid of debt has worked for me. That said I am a healthy, motivated guy with a family that comes first, so I have never been tempted to get in over my head with it or buy stupid bullshit.

Chase credit card pays me 1.5% back on all purchases no interest for 15 months. Run it up all over the place but then pay it back down before the 15 months are up. It's paid me back over $2,000 as I try and flow all my purchases through it

Bought a home at a 3.75% interest rate. Average inflation rate is 3% so I'm essentially paying a .75% interest rate on $450,000 loan. How can you beat that? Even if the market stayed exactly the same I dont lose. If the market drops I just hold the house until it goes back up. If the market pops I make a shitload of money.

Then I pulled out $40,000 2nd mortgage at 3.5% interest rate (this was during covid when standard rates were under 3%) for down payment to buy investment property.

I am in way more debt than other guys my age but the investments have worked thus far and my net worth is around $450,000 and I am 35. But if I just let it ride the way it is, I'll be worth 1mil all day long by age 50 - and that's if I stop investing now which I won't do. This is all before my 401k and other normal safe investments.

personal loans are insane - they are at 10% or worse and are short-term so you have huge payments.

my payment on the 2nd mortgage is interest only for the first 10 years, and then rolls over into a standard 10 year loan after that. That means I pay like $95 per month for a fucking $40,000 cash loan.

Just be responsible and have a backup plan or debt will kill you. If you get a credit card get a big fat no interest one and actually monitor it so you don't fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.49293155]

>>49293030

What kind of income are you seeing monthly from the rental property? I want to get a duplex with an FHA loan but I'm not employed traditionally and basically just live off of crypto. I'd get a duplex tomm if I could use an FHA loan and only put down 3.5%. I'd have to live in one side of it to get the loan but that would be fine.

[Anonymous No.49293208]

>>49290049
it's a constant battle on /biz/ between people who actually approach finances rationally and work with the system to try and make it and /pol/chuds who come here to seethe that they're poor and blame jews for the clown market
it doesn't even matter whether they're right and kikes creating debt out of thin air then charging interest on it is why we have whatever problems we have the fact is it's simple not relevant to your personal finances since you can't do anything about it
anyone sensible recognises that they're a part of this system and that they can either learn how to use it well or flounder and be poor
>>49290671
the average person doesnt need any help poisoning themselves anyway they will never have any wealth
theyre too cowardly, too stupid, too emotional, and simply too lazy to ever even try in mant cases
just look at boomers who have crappy jobs at walmart or wherever but bought a house for pennies only to sit on it at as it appreciated massively never leveraging it whatsoever and continuing to live like a poorfag because the only form of wealth they can even comprehend is cash
its pointless to even try and give financial advice to such people so why even enter them into the discussion? debt is good in fact its possibly the cheapest its ever been between inflation and low rates

[Anonymous No.49294052]

>>49292723
so btc goes up and your mining rewards are profitable but your short is rekt
what do you do then to repay if youre simply delta neutral?

[Anonymous No.49294367]

>>49294052

Its a 1x short so it would take a substantial move on BTC to liquidate me. I can use BTC as collateral as well for the futures contract. Again it would accrue another 20% APR on average just by being delta neutral. As you need to pay loan you just unwind a small % of the position. You can always rebalance if you need too as well. I know Kucoin does Coin based collateral contracts and you could have the mined BTC deposited directly to the exchange. Also if you are taking those out of the money option plays I mentioned with like 1-5% of the mining yield as well you can still get exposure to BTC while remaining mostly delta neutral. Most of the options plays would fail but the winners more than make up for it.

[Anonymous No.49294645]

>>49287137
>Debt is Healthy
the evil nigger strikes again

[Anonymous No.49294774]

>>49292474
>Market looks week.gov pumps it (aus bro)
You're in for a world of hurt

[Anonymous No.49295418]

>>49294367
interesting anon. what are the risks here? Has anyone successfully documented doing this?

[Anonymous No.49296111]

>>49290049

definetly right. I messed up big time and now im on debt to 8 different places 40k euros. I mostly pay monthly only interests. Fucked up big time there