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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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316803 No.316803[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Finance Vs. Economics Major.


What are the pros and cons of each?

>> No.316806

*pic related, based /biz/nessman

>> No.316816

>>316803
Econ > Finance

>> No.316819

>>316816
Why and in what industries.

Is econ still better/ more preferred than finance in a typical finance job?

>> No.316820

Dotcom. /biz/nessman?
U mad bruh.

As for your question - you might try out the Catalog. This question wasn't asked a long time ago.

>> No.316830

1. Accounting

<power gap>

2. MIS
3. Finances

<power gap>

4. Economics

<power gap>

5. International business
6. Marketing

<power gap>

9001. Business management

>> No.316840

>>316830

You didn't do it right.

You're supposed to have the numbers 9000 and 9001 on the bottom you silly ass.

>> No.316844

>>316840
>Implying that anything should be one away from business management.

Just go away.

>> No.316846

>>316830
Accounting being the most powerful?

>> No.316856

>>316830
>1. Accounting
what the hell?

>> No.316858

>>316803
if you do economics you can apply that knowledge in finance, doesnt work the other way around though, do economics

>> No.316863

With a bachelors, Finance has more jobs it's directly applicable to than Economics. That said, Econ covers a wide array of topics and is applicable to a variety of jobs, including those in finance.

>> No.316870

Economics is more general, while finance is more specific, imo someone with a bachelor's in finance is more prepared for working straight out of school, but someone from economics has the potential to work in many more industries

>> No.316877

>>316856

Job security brah. Though there should be a separation between an Accountjng bachelors (shit tier) and a CPA.

>>316858
>>316863

I'm a strong advocate of Econ because I personally love it and find it interesting. That said, if you don't like Econ, just go for Finance. Econ isn't particularly difficult, but connecting and applying general economic concepts will be a lot harder if you have no passion for the subject.

>> No.316896

Economics is a bullshit major.

I consulted in New York at Morgan Stanley for a year and know a lot of people working on Wall Street.

There has been a major shift in financial jobs in just the past few years. They need good quants, and are firing other people.

Does it sound fun to do a lot of math, and learn the Black-Scholes model and learning the formulas for credit risk models and such? Well, that is what is needed. You want easier, more fun subjects? Well, so does everyone else. You'll be having fun when you're pulling in a six figure salary.

Do finance over economics. Do math-heavy electives. Take some computer programming classes as well.

If you go to a top school, be in the top half of your class. If you are not going to a top school - be in the top 10% of your class. The number of jobs are limited. Being an average student at a second-tier school does not cut it.

>> No.316912

>>316877
>Job security and worse pay is #1
Where do you think you are?

>> No.316956

>>316896
I dont want to be doing quant HFT fuckery at some bank. Theres plenty of money to be made in actual investments that doesnt involve predicting tiny short term increases in some individual stock
I also think theres gonna be a bunch of regulations in that area soon.

>> No.316961

>>316956
>>316896

I dont mean im not going to do it, im definitely willing to learn it if its valued in the business and will give me an advantage but that isnt my end goal.

Ill keep it in mind for sure.

>> No.316973

>>316856
It offers the best employment opportunities.

>> No.316981

>>316896

>Implying everyone wants to do go to Wall Street.

Finance probably has more transferability into jobs right after college. You can go CFP, banking, consulting, corporate finance, wall street, etc. Most of the people that graduated out of economics I know are either in grad school or working for $40K salary in a really expensive city. I would do finance major econ minor.

>> No.316995

>>316956
>I also think theres gonna be a bunch of regulations in that area soon.
Absolutely no regulations will come out that will prevent Renaissance, D E Shaw, and the HFT groups in the investment banks from continuing to make a lot of money. Most of the regulations being considered are those that these people are OK with, such as forbidding excessive leverage and the like.

>I dont want to be doing quant HFT fuckery at some bank. Theres plenty of money to be made in actual investments that doesnt involve predicting tiny short term increases in some individual stock

Well that is what 99% of the good jobs you can get will be. You're not going to be the guy doing the handshakes with Apple so that they can issue more bonds, believe me.

Which means you will have to work at a mutual fund, unless you can be like Warren Buffett and round up a little money and parlay that into a fortune. You then have a few problems - convincing the fund to let you manage money, plus the legal restrictions, plus you might be slated to do an oil fund in a time that oil is doing bad - so you'll lose money through no fault of your own.

If you start out with $10k of your own money and make a respectable 10% a year return, after ten years you'll only have $26k.

You want to get deep-pocketed people to trust you with their money over the long term, but why should they trust you?

It's much easier to back-test brilliant new black box ideas.

>> No.317001

>>316981
>You can go CFP, banking...corporate finance
You're right I guess. It wouldn't even occur to me to go for a career so dreary.

>> No.317003

>>316830
0. Mathematical Finance / Math and Finance / Financial Engineering / Math

>> No.317008

>>316995
>Why should they trust me


None of the connections i have at the moment are in HFT. I probably stand a better chance in that 1% of good jobs


What do you do?

>> No.317063

>>317001

>Sitting in front of computer screen 80+ hours a week.
>Not "dreary"

Yea ok buddy.

>> No.317250

For godsake do NOT do Economics. Thats a libshit degree that has absolutely no transferrable skills to any jobs that require a degree. Unless you are going to work for daddy's company you can very rarely get a job with that theoretical bullshit.

>> No.317272

>>317250
>theoretical bullshit

kekus altum.

>> No.317416

>>316803
god what an ugly fucker

he literally looks hideous in every single photo i've ever seen of him

but i guess he's got confidence (the money probably helps)

>> No.317418

>>317416

Do you think he just needs to exercise

>> No.317420

>>317416
>but i guess he's got confidence (the money probably helps)

I thought the guy had down syndrome

>> No.317422

>>317420

It's Kim dotcom

>> No.317435

>>316995
>As a well connected and employed finance major econ minor I totally agree with these posts
>>316896
>Anonymous (ID: DiQJDSf4) 05/04/14(Sun)14:31:53 No.3

>>316981


Econ majors are total losers as far as anyone is concerned.

If you want to be successful in the financial world, especially quant area you go 40%finance 30%math 20% programming 10% econ 100% balls of steel and confidence

>> No.317442

>>317435
This. Finance is becoming more and more quant oriented. You'll need a physics, math, CS or engineering degree in the future to even think about getting a job in high finance. And if you can't program, don't even bother sending in your resume.

>> No.317447

Sorry phone glitched up...

I totally agree with these guys >>316981
>>316995
>>316896

Do Finance Major with Math/Econ/ CS Minor.. realistically programming doesn't even help if you just learn it in school, you actually have to dedicate yourself. At least that is my experience with it.

>> No.317453

>>317442
I am not a hardcore quant, but what languages would you recommend learning..

I currently know some C++, Matlab, R

But I under C# , Python and Java are pretty big too.

>> No.317469

>>317453
Python is very popular among quants. It's a pleasant language with minimal boilerplate (unlike Java) and massive collections of libraries to get almost anything done. Python is great for prototypes and churning out code fast to test ideas. And unless you need BLAZING FAST SPEED, it's good for production.

Since you already know C++ and presumably have programming experience, you should be able to pick it up in a few days.

>> No.317479

>>317453
learn python and at the very least know what libraries are popular in the area you want to go into

>> No.317481

>>317453
Are you familiar with the C++11 standard?

I learned C++ in ~2006 and they added a bunch of new features to the language since then. I mean, it has lambdas now. That's how much it's changed. Never thought I'd see lambdas in a language like C++, but Bjarne and his dumbass committee couldn't resist.

>> No.317502

>>316896

>finance
>quant

No. Not even close.

>> No.317506

>>317442

i think were forgetting that not everyone should or wants to have their money managed by a physics autist.

thats entirely useful for HFT but the buy with phd in maths has no real advantage over the guy with a finance BA who is actually talented at investing.


everything ive heard before indicates this is a skill and connection based industry, and people dont do better because they have a million degrees in theoretical subjects

>> No.317516

>>316896
black scholes is economics. financial economics.

>> No.317518

>>317506

>i think were forgetting that not everyone should or wants to have their money managed by a physics autist.

Enjoy your call center / "account executive" job. You will be just like the Wolf of Wallstreet! (Except making less than a nurse or a manual laborer in an oilfield.)

>thats entirely useful for HFT but the buy with phd in maths has no real advantage over the guy with a finance BA who is actually talented at investing.

>talented
>at investing

>everything ive heard before indicates this is a skill and connection based industry

Underline connections and sucking people off a hundred times outside of analysis. Remove all "skill."

>> No.317522

>>317516

Black Scholes is as useless as all the equity pricing models.

>> No.317542

>>317518
where do you work?

and i think it's a perfectly valid point to say that as long as you're good at the necessary technical shit you dont need to be a physicist to be a good investor or to work at an investment firm. every day for the last 100 years people have been making thousands, millions, billions without any of that.

>> No.317546

>>317542

Looks like it's time for you to open up a hedge fund.

>> No.317551

>>317546
>answers question when asked
where do you work?

>> No.317556

>>317551

I obviously don't want to answer that question.

>> No.317564

>>317556
I think you can tell me the type of company you work at with zero risk to yourself

>> No.317575

I'm fairly new to this, and about to pick a concentration at my school for my bachelors. I'm choosing finance and computer science. That being said, people on this board who talk about making money in finance as only being possible through ridiculous mathematical modeling and physics are fucking retarded. I know a guy who didn't graduate highschool is a millionaire from investing. And another guy who is also a millionaire who worked on wall street during the 80's trading futures and he graduated with a bachelors in finance, couldn't tell you shit about all this new pricing and modeling though. Do those things help? sure, in some ways, do those things prove you are smarter, not necessarily, just more driven to learn them I guess. Do those things mean you are going to be living an awesome 6 figure life, not in the slightest.

>> No.317583

>>317063

I do that anyway

>> No.317589

>>317575
i mean of course its useful but if you think quant algorithms are the only way to make millions of dollars you really dont have a clue what your talking about

>> No.317598

>>317575
hurr markets don't change
what is progress

>> No.317604

>>317589
In my personal experience and from what I've have seen firsthand, you can live a comfortable life with accounting and business admin. finance is going to put you a little above those professions in wealth, but you will need to put in the time. Econ is almost entirely for people who will be spending most of their time in the education sector or some low level shitty government job. And computer science is for the autists who don't know wtf to do with the decent amounts of money they earn. If you want to live a very rewarding life financially and socially any of these fields can do you good but you need that extra spark of ingenuity, drive and balls.

>> No.317607

>>317598
>hur dur, derpity durp
Can't think of anything else to say their bud?

>> No.317616

>>317604
thanks. ill keep that in mind

>> No.317675
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317675

What does /biz/ think of a double major in Computer Science and Philosophy (with an emphasis on formal logic)?

>i'm failing calculus

>> No.317684

>>317607
>hurr markets don't change
what is progress
>markets don't change what is progress
>not saying anything

>> No.317689

>>317542
>you dont need to be a physicist to be a good investor

For long term fundamental analysis, yes

For intra-minute arbitrage, no. This is almost completely owned by HFT nowadays.

For intra-day technical analysis? The hedge funds have moved into this, and the successful black boxes have been feasting on the mistakes of day traders.

Knowing computing as I do, I know it's inevitable that soon hedge fund black boxes will rule the intraday technical analysis market, putting 99% of day traders out of business.

Arbitrage is low hanging fruit and easy to automate. Intraday technical analysis is a little harder to automate, but they've certainly done it at places like Renaissance. With all the money hedge funds like them make, it's inevitable this process is automated.

Long-term fundamental analysis is the hardest to automate, so non-quants can best do this. Although in my mind Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch are "quants" as that I'm sure they can read a balance sheet and have a full understanding of its implications. There's no way to escape the math.

>> No.317721

>>317250
You can't deny that Economics is the "hardest" of LIBURHL ARTS.

>> No.317740

>>317516
>financial economics
Which isn't really taught in your undergrad when you major in economics. You know where I was taught black Scholes... in a finance class...

>>317522
>option pricing
>normal distribution
>shiggy my diggy
> I agree

>> No.317742

>>316830
Where do you all see supply chain/operations management in these brackets? I'm a supply chain major and never hear any mentions of the field on this board.

>> No.317745

>>317575
So you pretty much just admitted you don't know anything about it, but then continued on with your verbal diarrhea..
>Billgates didn't go to highschool
>I dropped out of highschool
> I am Bill Gates
2 Doge coins to whoever knows what logical fallacy this is!

>> No.317755

>>317604
I would echo the feelings of this anon.. Unless you get your CPA, but even if you don't account at the very least provides a stable background. A lot of finance grads are actually unemployed, but that's because its a very cut throat job market. Top schools, or top 10-1%of non target schools + occasional prodigies get descent jobs in finance. Just pure compsci involves people that were "that guy in highschool" who didn't know what to do and just sort of went through college "just cuz" . Economics... in the form of a bachelors is equivalent to like a psychology degree. If you want to solely focus on economics, masters and phD and research are the only way you can go.

>> No.317766

>>317675
>What do you think about a double major in engineering and basket weaving

>>317689
Here is a question for you, I have worked with a friend to develop a "firm in a box" as we call it which algo trades on NASDAQ. So what do quants use? mathematical formulas... technicals... (which are just packaged math)... which do what... try and exploit human emotion... which causes inefficiency in the market.... what do you think would happen when the majority of the market is HFT volume wise...

>> No.317772

>>317742
Usually /biz/ is concerned with finance and finance related..

Pretty much a range from retard level doge threads to actually talking about math...

Operations management; which I found a BS course in undergrad isn't really concerned with the finance aspect and >muhh wulf of wallstreed
So the autism kiddies aren't concerned with it.. I've always felt as if... Average job Average pay Average prospects... But thats just me.

>> No.317787

>>317003
I keep seeing contradictory info on Maths. I study it at uni, I literally just saw a post saying it's the underwater basket weaving of the STEM world, and then I see the posts like these. I believe it's more useful than jokes of degrees like Economics or Business Management, but it's also not useful without some knowledge of the field you want to apply it to.

>> No.317800

>>317755

What about the quantitative aspects behind it? I'm pretty sure if you're pursuing econ at a decent tech school there should be enough math/analysis backing on that.

With that, here's me:

>Econ major
>General Business minor; my school requires at least financial accounting. Also have an intro finance and marketing course with that too, going to wrap it up this fall hopefully

>Stats (emphasis in Business) minor, need two more classes to get it, both graduate level

>Pol S minor cause I used to be a stupid chillun...hurr

Also took part/will be taking part in corporate-sponsored case contests this semester and the next couple semesters through the college of business here.

So guys—am I good to go?

>> No.317804

>>317800
Forgot to mention, these have high emphasis on quantitative skills.

>> No.317830

/biz/ I have a BA in history. I'm planning on going back to school to get a new degree as I learned far too late how competitive and bull shit academia is. HS teaching in an alternative but I want money but dad is a portfolio manager. I'm looking at general jobs that are business related and would like something in stocks, as I like what some of his research oriented co workers do but I really like money.

>> No.317833

>>317830
Forgot what degree should I be looking for. My dad was accounting and just developed stock stuff as a skill.

>> No.317843

>>317833
For what it's worth my choices at this point are

1) go back to school for dosh
2) continue my cooking career(which I love but I think will hate as I get older)
3) teach, viable alternative but not great dosh and monetary cap
4) open a beer bar

>> No.317932

>>317843
Go be a highschool teacher and connect me with your dad lol.

>> No.318970

>>317787
it seems like a good skill but useless without common sense and business acument

>> No.318981

>>318970
*acumen

>> No.318991

>>317787
>it's also not useful without some knowledge of the field you want to apply it to
Bingo. It's god tier if you apply it to something useful, but doing pure math and expecting to get something out of it is naive (unless you're good enough to become a prof at a top school)

>> No.319038

>>317766
The market is estimated at over 60% HFT volume already.

>> No.319052

>>317742
im about to be a CPA with this degree as well. Time for consulting :)

>> No.319063
File: 18 KB, 460x259, matturberg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
319063

>TFW I WASTED 4 YEARS OF MY LIFE ON A WORTHLESS DEGREE

>> No.319122

>>319038
that just means theres a lot of hft trades... which of course there are because its high frequency. that doesnt mean its the most valuable/profitable trades being made

>> No.319126

>>319063
why did you do that

>> No.319157

>>317787
You can be a high level math whiz and have people pay you while learning finance. It doesn't work the other way around. Not that I am one, just what I've seen.

If you look at the types of math that quants use (basically high level calculus used in engineering and physics) it's kind of terrifying. For one thing, you realize that the financial markets are underpinned by countless competing extreme abstractions. For another thing, you notice the uncanny similarities between the phenomena observed by math in financial markets and the phenomena observed by math in other disciplines such as physics and biology.

You have to be fucking really smart to be valuable in finance though if you're a math major.

>> No.319236

I'm doing pre pharm and Majoring in Econ because fuck majoring in Bio or Biochem. I've been networking and managed to land an internship at a pretty decent firm I think. Unpaid though.
I go to Baruch.
Did I fuck up in choosing Econ? This is assuming I don't get into pharm school.

>> No.319636

I don't get why people shit on econ so much, at least in my case my degree has a good amount of math, statistics and some accounting.

I mean, i'm quialified enough to enter most finance and banking master's degres here (in Spain a lot of people go for master's degrees instead of going to work straight out of school).

>> No.319824

>>319636
I think most of them are just frustrated high school dropouts who want to make people feel bad about their major while desperately trying to become cryptocurrency multi-millionaires and working on mturk.

>> No.319863

>>319636
>>319236
>>319824

Obviously there are loads of exceptions. I know a handful of economics students who have descent finance jobs and are smart guys.
I think the consensus is that the thread is trying to reinforce, which I agree with, that the number of people with econ degrees that actually get something out of it vs the total enrollment is very very low..

As far as Spain and Europe is concerned, the education system there is different, and I actually respect most European schools in terms of econ. And if you're going to get a masters after in more finance/math stuff its totally acceptable.

We're mostly talking about people that go to liberal arts colleges and get economics degrees, who have very little true passion for it.

>> No.319867

>>319824
The more I see degree threads on 4chan, the more I think this is true

>> No.319871

>>319863
>European schools in terms of Econ

What's so different about Econ in Europe?

>> No.319894

>>319871
This may be a bias of mine, but when I went to Italy to visit a friend, I saw how their lectures and programs for political economics was structured.
Also they have a 3+2 year system whereas your undergrad is 3 years and your "masters" specialization is 2 years. They have a pretty good focus on the quantitative side as well, which is respectable.

>> No.320780

>>316803

God, Kim DotCom must hate himself knowing he has so much money but he is so fucking fat that he has to wear baggy black long sleeves and full pants on a hot sunny beach next to a girl in a 2 piece.

Fucking whale. Hilarious that his new ventures are huge fails that nobody uses. MegaFatFail.

>> No.320802

>>319867
I'm starting to think so as well, I've never seen this much degree dick waving in real life.

>> No.321601
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321601

According to /biz/ the only worthwhile degrees are comp science and accounting. Gee Wiz mister.

>> No.321667

>>317479
Why would this take more than a month rather than an entire comp sci degree?

>> No.321705
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321705

>>316803

Lemme save you some time. Do Finance. You learn shit that is tangible and useful.

Economics is 100% mental masturbation and useless out side of setting macroeconomic policy.

Disclaimer: I have a Finance degree and a job. Noone at my job majored in economics.

>> No.321849

>>321705
they're all the same after six months of on the job training anyway.

>> No.322045

>>321705
I work for an equity research firm and I used to work for a small hedge fund as an analyst. Lots of my coworkers were econ majors. Our company's chairman is now only hiring people with accounting backgrounds.

>> No.323479
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323479

truth is university is just a signalling mechanism to employers (learned that in economics) what makes you successful is the post university study you do in your 20s - doing 10 years of actuarial training or three years to get a CFA or a CPA, then you gain credibility in the workplace and leverage off that course achievement. Learn in your 20s and earn in your 30s.

>> No.323511

Finance < Economics
Finance and accounting actually takes some work, Econ is just learning basics of psych and business as applied to the world in a soft scientific method.

>> No.323521

>>322045
>>321705
Can we just settle this and say that they're both useful at getting jobs in their own way and asking the helpful of NEETs on an Japanese image board is not the best source of information