/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.28264942]

are unions good

[Anonymous No.28265019]

no, they never have been
either improve your skills or accept your pay. don't bitch about it if you aren't worth more than minimum wage.

[Anonymous No.28265158]

>>28265019
cringe and redpilled. sorry it has to be this way

[Anonymous No.28265215]

>>28264942
Unions are good like socialism is good: the further to the left of the bell curve you are, the better they are for you. The end result is to penalize the people who produce. Lowest common denominator machine for the workplace. Everyone works only as hard as the laziest guy, everyone makes only as much as the lowest paid guy.

[Anonymous No.28265303]

>>28264942
yes, that's why americans tried so hard to (successfully) destroy them.

[Anonymous No.28265329]

If they're informal and voluntary yeah, if they're just another layer of paid bureaucracy acting as a money laundering conduit for a political party, no.

[Anonymous No.28265428]

No

[Anonymous No.28265568]

>>28265329
consider - republicans have been actively against unions for the past century

[Anonymous No.28265690]

>>28264942
it can only be better, but they're not bad for what they do

>t. UPS warehouse worker

[Anonymous No.28265757]

>>28264942
Yes. Most people here are neoliberal idiots though.

[Anonymous No.28265818]

>>28264942
That town is 80% black which is exactly what diversity initiatives at corporations aim to prevent (unions).

[Anonymous No.28265829]

>>28265690
whats your experience as someone in a union? What could they do better?

[Anonymous No.28265886]

>>28264942
Unions are necessary for employees to negotiate on an even footing with their employers, but as bureaucratic organizations they are purely virtuous or immune to corruption themselves.

[Anonymous No.28265960]

>>28265886
*not purely virtuous

[Anonymous No.28265975]

>>28264942
no
>t. had to join grocery baggers union

[Anonymous No.28265991]

>>28265158
STANDING HERE

[Anonymous No.28266045]

>>28265975
what was wrong with it? Did you find it not worth the dues or what?

[Anonymous No.28266099]

Unions want to extort money from both employees and the business owners, often in the form of hundreds of dollars a month per individual wagie and from the upper management staff in the form of undisclosed amounts of unironic "protection money". The CEO cited in this tasteless "clapback" in pic related earns a lot of money, but it's only about $125 per employee per year; that's the "theft" Marx wrote about. Union bosses and upper management staff themselves eat at Michelin Star restaurants and have weekly "meetings" at five star hotels and resorts on their members' dues.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattpatterson/2016/10/18/the-union-scam-workers-make-bosses-take/?sh=6567b09d4012

https://www.unionfacts.com/employees/AFL-CIO

Unions are Jewish organized criminals masquerading as workers' rights advocates.

[Anonymous No.28266124]

>>28265329
I'd love to know the percentage of oil unions/similar things that shilled for biden just to get btfo on day 1 when he canceled the pipeline

[Anonymous No.28266153]

>>28266045
dues, minimum hours, bullshit commie union reps, then using my dues to support candidates i disagreed with etc etc

[Anonymous No.28266230]

Hurr durr unions bad, let a company buy your entire town and pay you in chuckie cheese coins to use at the company store.

[Anonymous No.28266279]

>>28266230
dont like it? dont take the job

simple as

[Anonymous No.28266343]

>>28266153
ok. Just to be clear, do they provide anything positive for you or your co-workers? I understand why you wouldn't like the political affiliation stuff.

[Anonymous No.28266456]

>>28266343
not anything not supplied by any other employeer.
crap health insurance. we were grocery baggers for fuck sake. it was a mafia-like extortion ring

[Anonymous No.28266565]

>>28264942
unions are good because they demand wages to rise to adjust for the constant inflation thats destroying all currencies. That’s why government jobs have high wages. The only downside is that they take their slice of cut but it’s still better than working a shitty wagie job with a stagnant or declining wage. Only the super rich hate unions.

[Anonymous No.28266596]

>>28266099
>$1200 for a bunch of wooden planks, a metal sheet, and some rope.
I'll build you one for $200.

[Anonymous No.28266660]

>>28266565
>they demand wages to rise to adjust for the constant inflation thats destroying all currencies.

are u trolling or are really not that self aware?

[Anonymous No.28266675]

>>28264942
Open shops are fine I guess, I would never join one but at least they're voluntary. Closed shops are basically extortion and I don't understand how they're even legal.

Also unions become easily corrupted, read about Jimmy Hoffa sometime. And more recently unions have become just another vehicle for identity politics which actively harms workers rights, kek

[Anonymous No.28266754]

>>28264942
Depends on the industry and a lot of other factors - for example, industrial and manufacturing unions or those advocating for workers in a skilled trade can help secure fair wages and lobby politicians to not fuck them over with bad trade deals and sell out segments of the economy to foreign investors, speculators, etc. But they are an inherently inefficient imposition on the market, and this can result in negative externalities like subpar workers being protected from termination, nepotism, inflated rates for goods and services, and corruption. If unionization occurs from the ground up and it is focused on securing worker's rights against exploitation or inefficient management it typically turns out to be a positive influence for a firm and its employees, but these aims can be distorted for a variety of reasons and end up hurting both workers and consumers.

[Anonymous No.28266941]

>>28264942
the one at my last job was completely useless
completely fucking useless
it made me more antiunion than any 4chan thread could
they literally negotiated a three year pay freeze with the company because of covid instead of demanding hazard pay. anyone who challenged the incumbent shop stewardess was ostracized because reasons. she was the one in charge because she had been the shop stewardess for 10 years or whatever, that was it. fucking retards.
>>28265818
i would be curious to see how this works out in practice. the union at my last job was very diverse, probably for this reason. despite the diversity there was a lot of racial tension between the eastern european workers and the black/latin american/carribbean workers.
One guy who I was talking to told me there were people who hadn't even said good morning to him in 20+ years.

[Anonymous No.28266970]

A cop can beat a (white) homeless man to death and his police union will protect him. But if that same cop is caught saying a single bad word about niggers or kikes, his union will hang him out to dry.

[Anonymous No.28266984]

>>28266675
yeah, the closed shop stuff seems kinda iffy. I'd like to have a choice in the matter - let me decide if its worth it or not.

>>28266754
Do you think amazon warehouse workers deserve a union?

[Anonymous No.28266987]

>>28264942
personally i like onions. i prefer them grilled or caramelized however. raw onions are pretty gross

[Anonymous No.28267060]

>>28266987
whats your favorite kind of onion? This is gonna sound wack but i like how McDonalds cuts them up really small and puts them on their burgies.

[Anonymous No.28267135]

>>28266941
>they literally negotiated a three year pay freeze with the company because of covid instead of demanding hazard pay. anyone who challenged the incumbent shop stewardess was ostracized because reasons

3 year pay freeze, jesus fucking christ that seems rather braindead

[Anonymous No.28267156]

>>28266754
>negative externalities
like destroying our entire automotive industry and turning the city of Detroit into a fucking wasteland. that was one hell of an "externality" right?

[Anonymous No.28267276]

>>28267135
the rationale was that shekelstein cant afford it because business is down and they're lucky to even have jobs
all while people on neetbux were making more than them

[Anonymous No.28267294]

>>28267156
This

[Anonymous No.28267453]

>>28267060
i would always get a hamburger with ketchup, mustard, pickle, and chopped onions at Micky D's every day after swim lessons when i was in 5th grade. good times.

[Anonymous No.28267791]

>>28266984
>Do you think amazon warehouse workers deserve a union?
My opinion doesn't particularly matter, but I think that in a perfect world workers should have the ability to attempt to remedy what they view as issues regarding their working conditions, and that if a firm is unwilling to address these issues, it makes sense to collectivize in the hope of gaining more leverage. I don't necessarily think they *deserve* one so much as I understand why there are impulses toward forming one. Amazon is an interesting case, though, because the way the company functions in regard to production and revenues is a sort of touchstone of new economic formations we're seeing where as long as a company keeps growing and expanding to different areas of the market its internal accounting (particularly regarding wages and employee satisfaction) doesn't really need to make sense according to the metrics we're used to dealing with. I don't know if the company can continue in this direction and also make concessions to worker demands.

[Anonymous No.28267890]

>>28266124
Unions in the US actively hate and try to destroy the people the are members in them.
It's an odd system.

[Anonymous No.28267933]

>>28267156
Yes? Not sure what response you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.28267993]

>>28265019
> $10 has been loaded onto your amazon account for this post.
Good Bezos goy

[Anonymous No.28267999]

>>28266124
The only one I know of off the top of my head was an oil workers union that shilled Biden and got put put out of work his first day in office.

[Anonymous No.28268331]

>>28267999
that sucks man. i'm a green enviro-faggot but putting 10,000 people out of work without an immediate plan of action for them is really rough.

[Anonymous No.28268588]

The only people that think unions are good are low-effort faggots who want more money to be a bottom-10% performer. Also ((((union dues)))) are one of the biggest scams ever.
The only people who really benefit from unions are the ring leaders who might as well be the "evil" CEOs they pretend to be against for all the money they certainly seem to make off it

[Anonymous No.28268636]

>>28268331
On the one hand yes.
On the other everybody told energy workers Biden's plans were pants on head retarded but they voted for him anyway.

[Anonymous No.28268759]

unions in the US seem to be absolute garbage, to the point where I think WS, or "the banks", or whoever, is actually behind a portion of the unions to make them fuck up so people dont want to unionize.
Just get better unions. Workers being organized when asking for better work conditions will never be a bad thing unless you make it a bad thing. Amazon does not care about you and would smite you where you stand for profit if they could.

[Anonymous No.28268849]

>>28265829
there's not really a lot to say that they can improve on. It's as simple as it can get, only con thing about it is that it's pretty repetitive and boring. But beats working any other job involving mongoloid customers

[Anonymous No.28268980]

the only thing butthurt wagies deserve is a slow agonizing death

capitalchads will always win in the end

[Anonymous No.28269013]

>>28265991
Heh

[Anonymous No.28269115]

>>28264942
Companies don't spend millions per year shilling anti-union stances for you benefit.

[Anonymous No.28269138]

>>28264942
This must be why Bezos is quitting.

[Anonymous No.28269539]

>>28264942
>are unions good
The real question is "Are unions good for crypto?"
If the answer to that is no, then NO.

[Anonymous No.28269701]

>>28265158
unions cause unemployment and prevent a company from adapting to the market.
Just look at how they fucked up detroit.

[Anonymous No.28269776]

no, they have only ever held me back
they are only good if you have less than 120 IQ

[Anonymous No.28269842]

>>28265568
They have? Last i checked they always focus on protecting jabs by making tarrifs and subsidizing shit. But both parties have done that.

[Anonymous No.28270030]

>>28269842
>free trade protects jobs
lel, they are the party responsible for immigrants stealing jerbs for cheaper pay

[Anonymous No.28270298]

>>28264942
Unions are good at lowering the quality of work by employees. Therefore they're also good at getting jobs sent overseas. Working in a union shop if you're someone who works hard and takes pride in your work is soul-crushing. People don't do jack shit and they get away with it.

[Anonymous No.28270373]

>>28265019
Unions forced a lot of good things for workers. Dont forget 12 year old used to work for equilavent of 50 cents an hours with no protections whatsoever. Modern unions unfortunely have mostly been taken over by Dems

[Anonymous No.28270475]

>>28270373
>tfw your union supports Democrats, no questions asked
>tfw Democrats hate everyone in your union

Hmm... really makes me think.

[Anonymous No.28270699]

99% of you idiots have zero understanding of/experience with unions, no doubt. I'm in a trade union, and it is an incredible relationship. I make excellent wages, have a solid pension, health benefits, my employers make great profit margins still, and we put out very high quality work. The city I live in even has a low cost of living, so don't try that argument.

Thank unions for giving us the 40 hour work week (as opposed to say 80, if you're lazy), minimum wages, and basic human considerations in the workplace at the advent of the industrial revolution.

Anyone here advocating, unironically, against unions is a larping faggot, a contrarian, a trust-fund baby with no grip on reality, or edgelord kid who read the spine of an Ayn Rand novel. Look how many of you leap to defend your masters. Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.28270702]

>>28268588
This, so fucking much. Also checked.

[Anonymous No.28270891]

>>28270475
what trade do you work in OP? I really hate when people look at a group of people in a trade or a location and peg them as stupid or a boon.

[Anonymous No.28270917]

>>28270702
>>28268588
Post a picture of your noses. Dues? Are you fucking kidding me? I pay about 20 bucks a month in dues. I pay a dollar per hour working dues.... but I still make 47 bucks an hour.

Some poor bastards in my line of work, in corporate right-to-work shitholes, make 1/3rd as much, are exposed to greater risk, have virtually no benefits, and can be cycled out in the blink of an eye by a cheaper migrant worker who puts out inferior work.

But hey, at least they don't have to fork out 20 bucks a month out of their hard-earned change!

[Anonymous No.28270992]

>>28270699
There's no convincing them. Most of them still believe that if they just dedicate more hours of their lives to making mr shekelstein richer it'll trickle down and they'll reap the rewards. They're addicted to being exploited.

[Anonymous No.28271003]

>>28265019
Unions are based as long as they are free market

[Anonymous No.28271210]

ITT: seething amerimutts
the vast majority of western europe is unionized, and unions do work, companies dont want to pay you fairly

[Anonymous No.28271415]

>>28270699
>Thank unions for giving us the 40 hour work week (as opposed to say 80, if you're lazy), minimum wages, and basic human considerations in the workplace at the advent of the industrial revolution.
Had almost nothing to do with unions and everything to do with automation.

[Anonymous No.28271628]

>>28270917
>t. works for a government contractor that gets written blank checks by the federal government

[Anonymous No.28271688]

>>28271210
Amen, brother. There are good, working unions in the US. It's just that these idiots have been brainwashed into hating them, because union workers make actual decent wages. As an American, I've noticed fellow Americans seething in jealousy at what I make an hour.... do they try to unionize, or join one relevant to their trade? No, they just say that unions are the problem.. and pay too much... heh.

Also, it's not easy to get into a union. I had to bust my ass. I worked for 3 years in some shit masonry job, carrying brick, mixing mortar, building scaffolding, climbing dangerous heights.. in the private sector, and made peanuts. I took initiative, however, and gunned for the local labor union, and now I work with a specialized form of concrete, and basically just set up machines and check densities/ph of the material. I make bank, we put out good work, and life is good.

We can thank our forefathers for fighting and dying for this sort of collective representation, in the face of dangerous robber-barons. Fuck you rats for advocating against our ancestors.

[Anonymous No.28271724]

>>28264942
Yes

[Anonymous No.28271753]

>>28271688
power in a factory, power in the land and all that. keep fighting the good fight

[Anonymous No.28271756]

>>28264942
Companies want OBEDIENT LOW PAID WORKERS. They don't want you to be anything else.

[Anonymous No.28271789]

>>28266279
don't want good workers? too bad they're all in unions

simple as

[Anonymous No.28271816]

Yes baka. It's genuinely good for management as well.

[Anonymous No.28271821]

>>28271415
Yep, just like the cotton gin made slaves redundant and the Industrial Revolution was known for heralding in an age of worker prosperity!!!!

[Anonymous No.28271827]

>>28271628
Wrong. I work for a private company that saves the state money. We work with cellular concrete, and it's a cheaper alternative to conventional pipeline and trench work... it's so lucrative, that we have private investors from Canada... we do jobs all over the country, and even outside of the US sometimes. This company is very profitable, saves the state in development costs, and puts good earnings on the books for our investors.

[Anonymous No.28271879]

>>28270917
all my faggot union does is cry about black minority rights and urge us to vote for democrats.

[Anonymous No.28271966]

>>28271827
>saves money
>very profitable
sounds like you and the company are still tax leeches

[Anonymous No.28272048]

>>28271821
Automation increased worker productivity. Businesses early to automate had a productivity advantage and could afford higher wages for their higher-quality employees. Do you think Ford's $5/day 40hr/wk was a result of unions?

[Anonymous No.28272084]

>>28269842
The only unions that the republicans like are police unions. Everything else is le communism.

[Anonymous No.28272152]

>>28270298
Hate to tell you, friendo, but unless you're a professional in an entrepreneurial company that's how every job is going to be.

[Anonymous No.28272178]

>>28271966
Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. What do you do, work at a fucking grocery store? It saves the state development costs... which doesn't drive up the cost of living... the company has low overhead, even with union labor costs.. pays a lot of money in taxes... but still has healthy enough profit margins to incentivize investors.

Anyways, keep talking out of your ass. Also, sounds like your union is shit and is completely useless. That happens. You decided to sign up with them, and work wherever the fuck you work. DYOR, or stay poor. Fucking loser.

[Anonymous No.28272242]

>>28264942
Unions of workers? Yes, absolutely.
Corrupt unions filled with grifters with no experience in the field? No.

The degradation of capitalism can come from either the employers or the employees. It is a market trade like any other, and there will always be someone trying to game the system in their favor.

In the case of Amazon. They use targeted diversity to socially engineer a work environment that is unlikely to form unions. They prevent ethnic solidarity, which is exactly what America has been doing for decades. A union is their worst enemy, and they will go scorched earth if the vote goes in the favor of laborers.

[Anonymous No.28272311]

>>28272178
It's the AFGE and by the way faggot if your company is highly profitable you are still being a fucking tax leech regardless of the benefits you may bring.

[Anonymous No.28272387]

>>28271827
similar story; I work for a ~2k employee-owned engineering company (a really employee-owned company not an ESOT). We constantly crush our 10-100x larger rivals in profitability and growth and are known for our R&D and staying ahead of the curve. Our people have real buy-in.

>>28271966
sounds like you don't pay taxes but act like you do

[Anonymous No.28272425]

>>28264942
unions would be a big help for anyone who works at Walmart

[Anonymous No.28272465]

>>28272048
I'm not arguing that unions were responsible for every single advantage workers have gained over the past however-many years, or that companies are never capable of passing on some of the benefits of increased productivity to their employees. I'm just saying it's naive to assume this was or is or will be the standard of conduct when productivity has continued to increase and wages have stagnated. Note that I'm also not saying increased unionization would solve this.

[Anonymous No.28272531]

>>28264942
>VOTE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT
>WOOPS THE ESTABLISHMENT TOOK YOUR JOB
>NO REFUNDS

Unions in the USA are extremely corrupt and basically an arm of the mafia.

[Anonymous No.28272547]

>>28269701
>had nothing to do with millions of niggers pouring into the city for union gibs in the 1950s - 1960s

[Anonymous No.28272598]

>>28269842
He means it in the disingenuous sense that Red team is directly against the unions themselves, even if they are generally for the retention of factory work in the USA.

[Anonymous No.28272688]

Only when they were ran by the mob...

[Anonymous No.28272689]

>>28268331
>>28268636
>without a plan

And during a recession. Now you know why it goes back and forth between the parties- Republicans create a bubble that creates jobs, the bubble pops, people vote Democrat because they make a bunch of promises about magically fixing it, then they make things worse, then we put Republicans in again to make a new bubble.

It's a broken system.

[Anonymous No.28272799]

really depends, unions are different in the US to the rest of the world. the union im in is kinda based which has managed to negotiate a 2.5% pay rise every year for the last 5 years. some unions may go against the workers interests however, negotiating really shitty deals that only benefit management and not the workers

[Anonymous No.28272825]

>>28264942
Amazon uses diversity to prevent unions, so if you dislike diversity then you should in theory support unions

[Anonymous No.28272907]

>>28269701
>Just look at how they fucked up detroit.
Yeah anon that was definitely the unions and not the 13%

[Anonymous No.28272921]

>>28271688
people forget that organizing was a right fought in blood. the US government sent the national grad against workers trying to unionize.
its anti union propaganda that union workers are lazy. One new union member told me he couldn't believe how productive a union shop was. what do you expect when you hire non union scabs? drug addicts, not properly trained or even ticked, dangerous.

[Anonymous No.28273027]

>>28272907
They're 82% of detroit.

[Anonymous No.28273031]

>>28269701
your a retard, auto unions were actually trying to get geared up and have training to make electric cars before the auto companies had even decided that.

[Anonymous No.28273039]

>>28272825
how do they use diversity to prevent unions??

[Anonymous No.28273068]

>>28264942
this union is good.

https://www.dextools.io/app/uniswap/pair-explorer/0x7f1da3697236d4a5e0efd2a99de5d9c076937856

[Anonymous No.28273111]

>>28273027
You know what I was trying to imply anon

[Anonymous No.28273115]

>>28273039
oh my god, what the fuck??? that is literally evil. holy shit. fuck amazon

[Anonymous No.28273195]

>>28273039
Create division so they don't band together and focus on Bezos fucking them over. As long as they're too busy infighting Amazon doesn't have to worry about having to do anything.

[Anonymous No.28273279]

OK everyone I knew unions were good from the start i just wanted to hear internet dwellers opinions i'm going to bed now good night

[Anonymous No.28273298]

>>28273031
Fucking idiot, Unions earn BILLIONS of dollars a year, many of them individually could have created a company of their own that operated off of their supposed principles at ANY time over the past six decades and they never did. Try and figure out why.

[Anonymous No.28273380]

>>28273195
This is like the OWS movement. Someone analyzed it and the amount of news articles containing "racism" or "racial inequality" or whatever increased tenfold since then. Not to mention the entire movement getting hijacked by complete retards.
I mean niggers are still going to nig but we at least got along more before all this horse shit. These dickbags use it to keep people not focused on the real threat.

[Anonymous No.28273706]

>>28271827
>I save the state money by being marginally less expensive than the other government contractors that charge 5x as much for the same service a private company does twice as well, also political insiders open up foreign markets to us because adds value to their investment portfolio

[Anonymous No.28273860]

>>28273706
You know, now that Bill Nye says it, I think I'm starting to see the appeal. I mean, think about all the benefits of nofap. Now imagine that times 100 with nodick.

[Anonymous No.28274021]

>>28265757
I am a pretty hardcore libertarian. Live and let live, can we please shut down government agencies and reduce spending? Why is there no party to reduce spending and increase market freedoms? Fucking bullshit. I'm not into the whole "no license to drive" tier stuff, but why is social security not voluntary? Why do I have to pay capital gains tax? It's literally the government stealing from my investments. Why are drugs illegal?

[Anonymous No.28274135]

>>28270699
checked and based. this is the most correct answer.
>>28265303
>>28266230
>>28265690
these have good points as well
>>28269138
honestly probably, there's probably some laws that protect either him or amazon from this move if the unions are successful and if the whole company is able to unionize

[Anonymous No.28274231]

>>28273039
Niggers naturally hate whites and will never banned together with them to act as one as it would benefit both the groups equally. Niggers instinctually understand power of group think this as well as Jews and get away with a lot because of it, whites are retarded individuals and loose everything because of it.

[Anonymous No.28274236]

>>28269539
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/2021-legislature/bill-would-allow-tech-companies-to-create-local-governments-2272887/
idk id rather not be a technoserf

[Anonymous No.28274388]

>>28265019
Nothing is perfect but unions are better than the alternative. The worst thing is people who should be fired aren't fired sometimes.

[Anonymous No.28274564]

>>28264942
if they keep DHT in their treasury then yes

[Anonymous No.28274580]

>>28274388
niggers and trannies - thanks dems

[Anonymous No.28274583]

>>28274231
Just woke up to say you're actually the retarded one, practice your English bud

[Anonymous No.28274982]

>>28264942
In moderation... look at Chicago

[Anonymous No.28275058]

>>28265019
ent_remove npc_kike

[Anonymous No.28275109]

back when i was a wagie i fought for what i was worth, easy to jump jobs in a trade. i dont put up with niggers

[Anonymous No.28275463]

>>28273298
no you idiot thats not how the unions money works. every union isnt connected
hurr durr
make a factory unions make your own job.
you try and figure out why (((they))) want to keep everything the same and poor pleb morons like you down.

[Anonymous No.28275504]

>>28271789
lol as if union workers are good XD
laziest people I've seen. Takes 3 to do the job of one and positions completely fabricated to prop up the spending budget

[Anonymous No.28275617]

>>28272311
companies profiting off market competition is not union-exclusive budget gouging retard. Unions literally lobby government to get exclusive contracts so they can charge outrageous amounts and justify it, yet would never be able to compete with private companies

[Anonymous No.28275813]

>>28275617
I never claimed a connection between unionization and gouging retard.