/biz/ - Business & Finance

Don't care didn't read not selling.

>>26422579
Sure why not. WAGMI

holy shit, if I don't make it this cycle I have to wait another 5 years and that's IF enough money can be pumped in to achieve $1M BTC.

I don't think the gold comparison is viable - look at other stocks.
FAANG together is 3 trillion

>>26422579
Bitcoin>Gold
THERE I SAID IT FAGGOTS

>>26423107
The point is, I don't think it's possible btc could reach 1 milion, unless it's actually used as an actual currency worldwide, which obviously is out of the picture by now.

>>26423107
Better start loading those bags anon

>>26423107
same thing was said 5 years ago, and 5 years ago from that. youre just to retarded to realize this is how markets work. sergey even talks about it in one of his videos where people take advantage of cycles while retards like you complain

10 million.
2.5 million EOY

maximum potential is the current market cap of gold

>>26423199
yeah, so? For btc to reach a milion, its market cap has to be higher than gold's which is 11 trillion. You need to have 6 figures in btc to make it, and this is supposing btc does reach 11 trillion

>>26422579
let's just humiliate gold first...

>>26423659
We would need EVERY government in the world to ALL invest in bitcoin for that to happen. Do you understand? It's almost impossible. I don't think it can happen.

>>26422579
>The absolute maximum return you can make with bitcoin is a x20 from here
Bitcoin is going to 1 million by or before 2037
Zoom out

Hell, Plan B's model even indicates 1 million by 2024 but I'll believe it when I see it
People think that we're passed the days of "crazy returns" in bitcoin days of yore, but the real redpill is that we're not
The final redpill is one that bitcoin will be $10 million (2020 USD adjusted for inflation) one day, even if it takes 40 years

Think about pompliano's basic argument: how much better/more useful/more accessible is Bitcoin than gold?
2X better? $1 million Bitcoin.
5X better? $2.3 million Bitcoin.
10X better? ~$5 million Bitcoin.
Global reserve store of value? $10 million Bitcoin.

>>26423235
utility is a red herring. it can lead you down the shitcoin lane if you start chasing it.
scarcity is where it's at.

i hate it when people call bitcoin digital gold. because bitcoin is far superior to gold in almost every aspect.

>>26423732
no golds market cap is tiny. very small. governments don1t even ened to touch btc to pump it past enough if the saylors of the world invest a few % and maybe some pension funds a few %.

>>26423742
>>26423732
explain how every government in the world is go chimp in on btc?

>>26423821
>no golds market cap is tiny
??????????

>>26423732
Gold is shit and the world is slowly becoming privy to that. Not just my opinion but cold hard fact - look at the charts. Adjusted for inflation Gold has actually devalued since 1970. It is NOT a credible hedge against inflation, it does not move against fiat fast enough.

BTC will 100% surpass Gold mkt cap within 5-10 years, its not even a question. Real estate is a maybe, I myself am unsure. But Gold is on its way out. BTC is more scarce and more valuable in our digital age.

>>26423732
people said the same thing 4 years ago about financial institutions never investing in bitcoin, look where we are now

>It's time to realise that we 5 figure cucks will never ever make it. We missed our lifetime opportunity.
Oh you're one of those. Take your meds, Eeyore.

>>26423244

Can you post sergey video source? I am interested on watching that.

>>26423732
No you don't.
You just need 10% of the (mostly yielding below inflation) bond market alone to get it to $10 trillion

Bear in mind that is ignoring all the money that is tied up in the stock market, the fine art market, CDs, real estate, corporate trusts, all individual investors, and yes precious metals, that is simply there for the purpose of keeping it's value from evaporating

That said, I think you could expect this century's Bitcoin marketcap absolute ceiling to be $200 Trillion

>>26423924
yes compared to all the money out there and all the debt and all the derivatives it barely registers on that scale.

i mean the gold that we mined so far. because the total amount of gold on planet earth is mindblowing. it could cover the entire surface which includes ocean floors a meter high.

>>26423976
Again, that would be sweet, but how can it be possible? Sure, Gold is shit everyone knows that. But how is btc ever going to surpass it anyway? The most powerful organisations in the planet (governments) are behind it. I don't see bitcoin being supported by every government. Government investments are (probably) the only way it could ever win over gold.

>>26424103
Tone down your schizophrenia. Institutions and governments are extremely different.

>>26424116
I wish I'm wrong. I really do.

>>26424378
4 years ago it was unthinkable that jp morgan buys bitcoin and here we are... they are fucking buying. you know they are buying when they are fudding it and know they are selling when they are shilling it.

>>26424447
As someone with barely 30k in btc, I hope everyone in this thread is right.

Hopefully in 10 years I can retire

>>26424538
sooner than that imo. 5 is more likely. we gonna hit $100k to $300k within 2 years. i know this. in 5 years most likely hitting $1 mil.
taking profit is fine but never sell all m8! i made that mistake one too many time. my greatest regret.

>>26424690
I'm never selling either, even though I'm skeptical it can go that high, I'm holding for at least 10 years. Let's hope.

>>26423247
based.
My prediction is 1M in 2021
15M this decade

>>26422579
over 100 Trillion in the next 5 years. expect over 100x

>>26425350
i'm not against that but i think it's way too soon unless there is a radical wave of adoption. which can happen.

>>26425350
>>26425452
take your prescriptions please

>>26422579
as long as govs print trillions, the upside is exponential. if printing stops, this shit will hit the fan fast

so much delusion ITT

>>26422579
thinks the dollar won't go full Venezuela if covid keeps up. Dollar valuations are meaningless going forward

>>26425350
i think we will reach 50k in 2021 if we are lucky

>>26423235
It’s not only possible, it’s going to happen.
Bitcoin is an a-symmetric bet, always has been. At this stage it should be clear which way that bet is going. The real question isn’t if bitcoin goes to X but when?

>>26426414
Holy shit that lowball is criminal

>>26423732
Why?

>>26426835
>The real question isn’t if bitcoin goes to X but when?
Right. But you realise that btc must have a "finish line" right? X could be 600k. It is possible btc reaches a stable state in the 6 figures, never really reaching a milion in 30 years from now.

>>26426975
To go above gold's market cap. Gold's marketcap is as high as it is because of global internationnal government support

>>26425781
governments are with their backs against the wall, if they stop printing everything fiat backed will crash immediately and if they keep printing inflation will ramp up more and more until fiat becomes worthless.
Imagine 1920's Germany hyperinflation, if there would have been a alternative to the reichsmark everybody would have used it. Today we have a much better alternative. Once the masses realize fiat is scam (even in day to day) and that they can have full control over their money, crypto will show what it able to do.
Most likely mass adoption of crypto will happen when people start suffering in their everyday life from the consequences of fiat and central banks.
I personally see huge potential in the use of monero + bitcoin. There is a whitepaper on trustless swap of btc to xmr and reverse; without any exchange or third party. Bitcoin will be the store of value and XMR will be used instead of cash.

Cryptos cannot be banned. as long as the internet exists, nobody can censor data if there are enough people using it.
governments cannot ban darknet markets
governments cannot ban child porn
china cannot ban foreign propaganda inside of china
governments cannot ban piracy of films, software, games, music... anything copyrighted
governments cannot ban the exchange of information as long as the infrastructure exists.
crypto is information.

>>26423235
42000 bitcoin was unthinkable

>>26427213
Masses won’t realize fiat is a scam. Masses are masses for a reason.
Just like we are here for a reason and the big swinging dick billionaires are where they are for a reason.
It’s nature and you can’t alter it

>>26422579
last cycle 100k btc was unthinkable and respected financial institutions investing was never going to happen, despite some lowkey players moving in
(yes i am aware we haven't hit 100k yet, but that is pretty much a certainty in a few months)

this cycle its all about the marketcap of gold and nations investing in btc is unthinkable
we already have the iranian central bank making its first move into btc and this is just the bellweather of things to come

the comparison with the gold MC is pointless even ignoring that MC is a total meme
it was a transaction of probably no more than a few 1000's usd that pumped the price to previous ath back in 2017 yet it meant a MC increase in the many millions
cryptos are so much more useful than gold as they allow entire new businesses to exist on the internet that could not happen in the past as billing your customers was not possible because bank intermediairies would eat up 200% of the unit costs in transactions
right now you can trade an online product you made in rural india to a guy in backwater siberia in about an hour without any barriers to trade
if you don't understand the implications of that and the effect on truly global business possibilities and wealth creation for once in the hands of the little entrepeneur not the big behemoth than you should not be here and sell all your crypto for vanguard
comparing btc to gold MC is boomertier market thinking, btc goes either to zero or whistles past gold MC like it wasn't even there

>>26423235
lol see you in late summer/early autumn 2025 when it's $1M. the charts don't lie

>>26422579
>What is bitcoin's maximum marketcap potential?
<price of last trade>*<total supply>

>>26427775
I'm not implying that I'm going to sell. I'm not selling for at least 10 years.

>>26427611
hopefully everyone realizes this.

>>26427793
what did he mean by this?

>>26427775
It's going higher than that...

>>26423235
Its basically inevitable anon. There are no institutions except grayscale and microstrategy. When they all start sticking 1% in, there will literally be no top, the individual whale will be meaningless.

>>26427213
inflation is not a bad thing for a government... they have massive debt and expenses nominated in the currency that gets inflated.

they love the shit out of inflation. it's not a problem. the economy tanking is a problem because it tanks productivity.

>>26428127
i assume he meant there is no limit.

>>26422579
Ask price will just be the highest someone is willing to buy for. If someone is willing to buy a bitcoin for $500 million because he thinks he can hodl it and sell it to someone else for $1 billion, then market cap will reach there. Bitcoin is just dollars in = dollars out. It's not generating revenue outside of itself, market cap isn't like Pepsi where it is based on products sold and property owned.

>>26427213
>There is a whitepaper on trustless swap of btc to xmr and reverse
this is actually hilarious bitcoin got released with atomic swap capability straight from the crib. 10 years later monero still postulates this crap like some achievement.

$1M is the final frontier and cap.

It would mean one satoshi can't reflect the value of a dollar cent.
That literally makes BTC useless as a currency.

Even if you assumed something silly like all of economics breaking down and redefining itself using BTC instead of USD, because then defining BTC in terms of USD would be meaningless anyway.

Even the S2F guys say that $1M is the limit.

>>26423742
It is literally just ask price. Bitcoin is worth what people will pay for it. 100% of interest is speculative. If someone is paying $1 million per bitcoin it is because they reasonably expect someone else will bid $2 million for it later.

>>26423235
>unless it's actually used as an actual currency worldwide, which obviously is out of the picture by now
It's already used as a currency by countries which are being bullied by USA and cannot use traditional banking system.

>>26428728
Bitcoin will eventually stabilize. There are 100’s of trillions of dollars in the ecosystem looking for a secure store of value. Wherever the price ends up stabilizing is beyond anyone’s understanding or knowledge but the fact of the matter is Bitcoin enables the entire world to rest easy at the end of the day knowing that governments and central banks can not dilute/destroy your life’s work

>>26428656
this cycle we are looking at probably somewhere around 300k usd at its most fomo tier peak
so you are saying that next cycle its only going to be a mere 3x from there, meaningless
the 1 mil has a value is only you projecting a need for round numbers on the market action as of today there is no barrier presented at that very specific number

>>26429277
BTC literally has only 8 digits anon. It mathematically cannot reflect 1ct after it exceeds $1M. It's not a "very specific number", it's the smallest economic unit in the US economy, and that creates a problem for its usage as a currency.

We are dumping again bros

>>26429529
>its usage as a currency
it isn't and won't ever be used as such.

>>26429529
are you autistic? No one cares about 1 cents. Many countries don't have representation of a single cent, and as inflation goes on, cents will become more and more meaningless. In canada you can't even have 1 cent, the minimum is 5. There's less retarded reasons for why btc couldn't reach a milion.

>>26429175
None of this means bitcoin should be worth anything. What you wrote could apply to beanie babies, let alone any alternative crypto token.

People are looking for a store of value outside of banks, and dogecoin protects your wealth. Who knows what price doge will reach?

In truth, we do know how this ends. Every purchase of bitcoin is someone else's exit. There were people who bought bitcoin for $40,000 a few weeks ago, and they are only achieving a "store of value" if someone else comes along and is willing to buy their bitcoins for a higher price. Bitcoin doesn't produce wealth like a business. Once people stop putting new real money into bitcoin, it stops pumping. The alternative is either infinite growth, or a bunch of bag holders who bought at the top.

>>26429711
Your ponzi argument could also be used for any investments. BTC is valued simply because it's popular and transactions are decentralized, secure and easy. As opposed to, say, beanie babies.

>>26429660
>Many countries don't have representation of a single cent, and as inflation goes on, cents will become more and more meaningless.
You're literally too retarded to get my point.
$1M would mean that 1 satoshi = 1ct. That would mean certain goods are starting to get priced out for BTC usage. You would either always overpay or underpay. This would only escalate the higher BTC goes.

If you don't like $1M as an example, take $100M. It would mean BTC literally lacks a unit for one dollar. If you wanted to buy something for $1.50, tough luck - gotta pay those two satoshi.

Of course this will affect other countries at different prices. Nobody gives a shit if Chad or Venezuela are priced out. As soon as you "price out" the largest economies, such as Burgerland, you're getting fucking useless as a unit of account.

>>26429980
>You're literally too retarded
btc will never buy a coffee dude. stop the fud. grams of gold are like $60.

as shit load higher than gold, BTC has many use cases + all of the golds but much better eg you can teleport you gold through the internet

>>26422579

By my calculations the world will produce about 956T USD in GDP over the next 10 years (current global GDP = 81T plus 3% growth rate compounding).

Goldman Sach's study calculates that the actual capital inflow to Bitcoin is equivalent to approx. 25-45x the capitalization

If even a trillion actual dollars of that wealth flowed into Bitcoin, we'd be looking at a 2 million dollar Bitcoin and frankly I think that is probably low balling it.

I think it is fair to say that Bitcoin isn't going to stop at a million dollars, that is a brainlet take that obsesses over the idea that "million dollars = big number". In order to think about Bitcoin valuations you must not only think about wealth but the growth of global wealth over time and what share of that will flow into crypto currency.

People think it is late in crypto, it is actually just the beginning, people haven't a fucking clue. That guy who bought those pizzas in 2010 or whenever it was probably spent 20 billion dollars of his retirement fund.

>>26430055
Gold would unironically be a more useful unit of account than BTC at that point, because I could still weight up the exact amount needed to pay for shit.

Also gold has other uses. BTC would literally have none if this happened, especially with other crypto on the market.

>>26430055
about that...

>>26430055
also
>fud
I 100% believe BTC will get to $100k and maybe even $1M, but that will be the limit. I hope you're not seriously expecting prices above that

>>26423924
they need to be able to prove solvency.

>>26429529
duhhhh you can arbitrarily divide btc up into any number of decimals 100 if you want

subsatoshi trades are already a thing on the LN

>>26429901
Not true. Buy a house and rent it and it generates income for you. It's construction represents real effort and it is materially made from useful things. Likewise buy a share of Coca Cola and you are buying a piece of a business. You are buying an entitlement to a share of the revenues. You are not simply buying a price, you are buying something of value.

If the markets and exchanges closed, shares of Johnson and Johnson would still have value, because the company creates and sells products and owns IP and other property worth something. A piece of this business is worth something. How could someone determine the fair worth of a crypto token?

And transactions are decentralized and easy? High transaction fees, uses the electricity of Switzerland, and very low transaction speed compared to other payment processors. Plus every exchange is a taxable event. And again, this all applies to other tokens. Why is bitcoin special?

Just because something is useful, doesn't mean it is valuable. Bitcoin could process transactions at $1 a coin, but people aren't buying stable coins, they are buying portfolios of crypto tokens, with the anticipation of increasing value. This is mathematically impossible. Mathematically, a fraction of buyers will buy at the top.

>>26429711
>Bitcoin doesn't produce wealth like a business
Yes, it does it organises capital allocation for the whole world.

that's its bunsiness.

>>26429711
This is not even up for debate anymore anon. It’s already proven itself.

>>26430127
>People think it is late in crypto, it is actually just the beginning, people haven't a fucking clue.
exactly

>>26429529
>>26429980
>>26430145
absolute brainlet take
nobody is saying cent tier transactions are going to be taking place on the main chain
there third layer solutions for that when the times comes, i mean transaction time and cost would rule out that scenario
btc is the store of value that underpins the entire crypto ecosystem, moving btc on chain will be the equivalent of the fed printing several bil dollars and distributing them to banks or in short something a normal citizens doens't even get close too

and even if that wasn't true you do realise it would be rather trivial to introduce extra zeros after the comma without fucking up the value right

>>26422579
bitcoin cash can go to 4 mil per coin

btc can go to 333,333 per coin

>>26430700
>and even if that wasn't true you do realise it would be rather trivial to introduce extra zeros after the comma without fucking up the value right
Source?

>>26431413
And you can go to reddit