/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.211430]

>God Tier:
Austrian School
>Good Tier:
Chicago School
>Shit Tier:
Keynesian

[Anonymous No.211448]

>>211430
god tier is american school economics

[OrthodoxJew !!2b5Co+cfw7S No.211471]

Ask an economics major at an Austrian minded school anything!

[Anonymous No.211478]

>this level of pseudo-intellectualism has migrated to /biz/ from /pol/

No. No. Get the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.211484]

>>211478
>Calling the only legitimate schools of economic thought "pseudo-intellectual"
>Being this much of a troglodyte

[Anonymous No.211489]

>>211484

Keynesianism is a footnote in political and historical texts with only marginal relevance to modern economic thought. Austrian economics is just as irrelevant to modern economic thought.

Get the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.211515]

>>211448
Hamilton pls go

You people are the reason everything is so shit now

[Anonymous No.211520]

>>211489
>Keynesianism is a footnote in political and historical texts with only marginal relevance to modern economic thought.
Our entire economic system is based on keynesian theories.

Stop lying.

>Austrian economics is just as irrelevant to modern economic thought.
Austrians are the fastest growing school of economics and is becoming more and more accepted due to the fact that, well, they're correct.

[Anonymous No.211800]

>>211430

That Krugman "quote" gets passed around Austrian circlejerks like OP's mother gets passed around in suburban nignog ghettos.

Here's the full, non-cherry picked quotation with full context:

"To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble. Judging by Mr. Greenspan's remarkably cheerful recent testimony, he still thinks he can pull that off."

And further explanation: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/me-and-the-bubble/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

>>211520

I've seen that faux math model countless times. It's already been proven that the interest rate does not affect consumption, but instead it is residual income that affects the marginal propensity to consume/save. Even Friedman acknowledged that.

Here's a quick lesson /biz/, anything to the right of the Chicago school (such as the Church of Mises and their Austrian school acolytes) isn't even taught in grad school econ classes or econometrics because there's NO MATH OR STATS to back that psuedo-science up.

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard38.html

The Mises Institute and the retarded shit they pump out is mocked equally by Keynsians and neolibs alike. No one takes that shit seriously. It is based on philosophy purely, and not economics.

[Anonymous No.211820]

>>211430

[Anonymous No.212712]

>>211430
literally no one worthwhile takes austrian economics seriously

[Anonymous No.212725]

>>211800
>actually defending Keynesian economics
Come on how much of a religious cultist retard are you?

[Anonymous No.212732]

>>211430
>shit
>keynesia
>not realizing that since Keynes our economy has become much more stable and workable

Also, God Tier is modern economics. Austrian and Keynesian are simply the foundations of our current system, which has been modified to take advantage of the failings of each. Any fag who calls themselves "Austrian" or "Keynesian" better be 80 years old, or I'll beat their face in for their stupidity.

[Anonymous No.212734]

>>211800
>The Mises Institute and the retarded shit they pump out is mocked equally by Keynsians and neolibs alike. No one takes that shit seriously. It is based on philosophy purely, and not economics.

How mad does it make you that Austrian economics has thoroughly debunked Keynesian psudeoscience? How does it feel that it's the fastest growing school of economics?

You people don't even believe hyperinflation can exist lol

Also it's hilariously to see krugman pull the "I was only pretending to be retarded" card.
Are you actually denying that the federal reserve was responsible for the housing bubble?

[Anonymous No.212737]

>>211820
Our founding fathers were against the british/Hamiltonian school of economics.

Keep calling it "the American school" you deceptive cunt.

>>212712
Great, we should listen to the people who destroyed our economy because clearly they're geniuses.
Lol

[Anonymous No.212740]

>>212732
There you have it folks.

Keynesians believe the great depression, stagflation and our current economic shithole is "stability".

Fuck you people and your poverty worship.


Also
>Austrian
>foundation for our current system
Hahaha Jesus Christ

[Anonymous No.212762]

>>211800

Lets pay people to dig holes and fill them back up!

[Anonymous No.212768]

Isn't a mixture of Keynesian and Austrian the best all round approach?

I understand for specific decision, an ultimate decision would be made using one of the schools, but a mixture of options from each school for a situation I feel would be the best.

[Anonymous No.212781]

>>212768
>2014
>being rational on /biz/

Topkek m8, ur supposed to have a fixed ideology and call everyone who disagrees with it in the slightest either a filthy socialist or a damn liberal.

[Anonymous No.212788]

>>212781
I cracked a smile

6/10
Quality post.

[Anonymous No.212796]

>>212768
>isn't a mixture of atheism and Christianity the best approach

How fucking dumb can you be?

Does your brain even use logic?

Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.212815]

One thing I think we can all agree with is that marxists need to be shot in the brain.

[Anonymous No.212820]

>>212796
>bad analogy
>ad hominem
>ad hominem
>ad hominem

/biz/ 2k14 edition

[Anonymous No.212827]

>>212820
>thinking having violently enforced central banking and at the same time abolishing said central banking is even a thing logically possible

What the fuck?

End yourself.

[Anonymous No.212832]

>>212815
>marxists
Do they actually exist? I thought it was an urban myth

[Anonymous No.212872]

>>211430
get the fuck out of here JTRIG

[Anonymous No.212883]

>>212832
>mfw there was a marxism stand at my uni
>Preaching Abbot hate and muh open borders so refugees can come and fuck up everything and abuse our welfare
>Some fat aspie marxist is handing out flyers
>Approaches some guy
>>"H-hey, d-do you h-hate Abbott?" (not even exaggerating the stutters)
>Guy replied "No."
>>Aspie stutters back trying to fucking debate the answer of no "b-but he is violating human righ-"
>Aspie stops when the guy just keeps walking.

You can tell he is going to be the average person, can't stand up for his beliefs even when he's trying to stand up for his beliefs.

Thought about debating him since I'm an economics student who also happens to have fascist social policy ideals and rip his little world apart. But I had a lecture. Hue.

[Anonymous No.212884]

>>212827
He didn't #fire the #shots faggots. It's called talonic justice.

[Anonymous No.212900]

>>212883
>Abbott

Who's Abbott?

[Anonymous No.212902]

>>212883
Marxists aren't even human beings.

[Anonymous No.212911]

>>212900
Current and quite possible the most hated prime minister in Australian history other than Julia Gillard.

But to be honest, he is not THAT bad, he's got some pretty stable plans, but people hate him because people are fucking stupid.

His got clever ways of implementing social policies. Like the nuclear family, he's encouraging that by supporting extra maternity leave pay, and funds that through cutting education.

People are crying about the education, but they don't understand the marginal cost of cutting education to fund a more stable lifestyle for children would have a great marginal benefit because a child from a stable family performs much better in school than a child from a broken family, although the school system would be poorer, children would academically do better.

I for one embrace our new bald overlord.

[Anonymous No.212913]

>>212883
>refugees can come and fuck up everything

I've seen this retarded shit spewed over and over.

More refugees equal more low-payed employees, which means that high-middle class natives can take a risk in opening a small business, since there are people willing to work at low paying jobs.

Ergo, the more emigrants and refugees, the more high-middle class natives can move into low-rish, not to mention that low-middle can have more opportunities at managerial positions.

[Anonymous No.212916]

>>212911

Thank your for the explanation, excuse my ignorance of Australian politicians.

[Anonymous No.212919]

>>212913
Except take into account how the fuck any native starting out in a market where all the entry level and low-level positions are filled by cheap migrants.

And the amount of welfare they would collect would balance if not go negative on the taxes the middle class now pays from owning small business.

Really, it's a never ending debate. But Marxists are retards full stop.

[Anonymous No.213024]

>>212737
Pray tell, who "destroyed our economy"?

[Anonymous No.213026]

>>213024
Central bankers.

[Anonymous No.213118]

>>213026
How did central bankers destroy the economy, as opposed to investment bankers

[Anonymous No.213124]

>>213026
1) How did central banks cause the crisis more than the investment bankers
2) How are the central bankers, an extremely small group of people, representative of the entire economic academia?

[Anonymous No.213139]

>>212732
blasting an air horn in your ear can give you permanent ear damage, should have bashed the stupid bitch, the bald cunt and the cameraman, tied them down and given them 5 minutes of air horn directly into their ears each as punishment

[Anonymous No.213144]

>>211515
>>211520
>>212734
>>212737
>>212740
>>212796
>>212827
>>213026

>>>/pol/

pls go and stay go

[Anonymous No.213162]

>>212911
Lel look at that inappropriate usage of marginal cost and benefit. You reek of a first year econ student. I hope you don't go to UQ because I'd find that embarrassing

[Anonymous No.213180]

>study macroeconomics
>see Austrians posting bullshit online every single day

[Anonymous No.213187]

>>212883
>pls be in UNSW

Whenever I see them I just want to punch one of the fuckers in the face.

[Anonymous No.213196]

>>213180
>seeing Austrians think their theory is regarded with any level of legitimacy, other than by extremely fringe economists
>seeing Austrians think the Keynes vs. Hayek video is representative of the debates in academia
>seeing Austrians think their theories are rejected by mainstream economists because mainstream economists are conspiring with investment and central bankers, rather than because Austrian conclusions are either untestable or already trivially incorporated into prevailing models

[Anonymous No.213199]

>>213180
>paying to swallow whatever economic model fits your university's politics
>angry someone doesn't consider it "empirical"

[Anonymous No.213203]

>>212832
I'm a Marxist but it's always futile to discuss any of his works on /biz/ largely because of the sticky and because /biz/ and /pol/s education on the matter stems from far right McCarthyist propaganda, claiming to have read The Communist Manifesto but not really and so their opinion on the matter is always correct. Likewise you'll always get an answer about how it's good on paper but not in reality, because in truth they want to seem open minded on the matter but with a slight tinge of "you're retarded" largely from, like I said, lack of reading on the source material.

If you want the best discussion you can get on 4chan about Marx and other Marxist thinkers from the Frankfurt School I suggest /lit/

[Anonymous No.213210]

>>213203
Tell me about Das Kapital, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts

[Anonymous No.213215]

>>213203
Yeah, a board which discusses various work of fiction would definitely be the best place to discuss communism.

[Anonymous No.213254]

>>211515

>shitting on the founder of american industrial policy

typical goldfag

[Anonymous No.213268]

Where they went to school is irrelevant. Successful people are at that level because they have a mind of their own. It has nothing to do with the education they got. If that were so, anybody who regurgitates what they read and learned in college would be successful.

[Anonymous No.213282]

>>211430
Go back to /pol/ and stay

[Anonymous No.213291]

>>213210
The one relevant thought between On Capital and /biz/ is on commodity fetishism from all these cryptocurrency threads. Other than that I think that it was a good counter to the economic environment Marx had to deal with and still largely relevant today, however the large abandonment on currency, and by extension commodity as seen today, is something that I can't comprehend living with. With technologies like the Internet, cell phones, and the like in a highly globalized world an orthodox Marxist would have a hard time promoting his values, or even practicing his values in the form of a business. It can still be done but it'll take some creativity in terms of creating a business model, which honestly I would like to see a discussion on how such a model can work.

In terms of owning the mode of production though I think that's largely becoming more successful as people are more open about accepting FOSS and the like along with actively developing on single board computers like the Pi where you're able to freely modify it to fit your needs. Granted it's not the total liberation on the mode of production but it's getting there slowly.

[Anonymous No.213311]

>>213291

FOSS isn't really an alternative to late capitalism. See GOOG, the curious mix of panopticon and US military contractor.


>every large corporation that thinks open source = "cheap code and cheap coders"

[Anonymous No.213334]

>>212734

>fastest growing

Source pls. Not that you probably have one anyway.

Please explain to me how Keynesianism has been "debunked" by a religion too afraid of math and statistics. Protip: you can't.

>inb4 muh freedumbs, muh praxeology

Also, I'm not defending Krugman. He's a shitty Keynesian who just panders to liberals. But image macros, the best "source" Misesfags can come up with, like the one I was referring to is fraudulent. It cherry picked specific parts of that quotation without leaving in the full context. Krugman never wanted the creation of a bubble, you autistic moron.

Of course keynesianism believes in hyperinflation. But tell me, does it fill you with butt angst that the big bad fed increased the money supply 10 fucking fold and caused barely any inflation, despite what the tinfoil hats over at Cato and Mises thought? Where's the hyperinflation? Where's Friedman's ideas gone to? In the trash, where it belongs.

[Anonymous No.213340]

>>213311
It's not in itself right now, you're right, but as an effect on individuals it is. Learning how to code in general, even if you just dabble in it, is one small step towards owning said production. Hell, even the education to start coding is freely available on the Internet on legitimate sites. The only things that, as of now, you need to deal with that aren't "yours" is the ISP you need to use to connect to the Internet and your own computer, and the latter is at least somewhat changing a bit.

[Anonymous No.213343]

>>213334
Wait, wait, I shit on Austrians all the time, but what the fuck does Friedman have to do with the Austrians?

[Anonymous No.213385]

topkek watching all you pseudo-intellectuals fight over your beliefs like fucking atheists and christians

[Anonymous No.213388]

>>213215

#rekt

[Anonymous No.213397]

>>211515
Yes clearly the school of economics that protected american jobs as first priority and made America an economic giant is bad. so much better this new economic model of corporate feudalism. Where the uber rich owners look to cut american jobs as much as possible.

what a goy you are.

[Anonymous No.213400]

>>213397
>muh outsourcing

[Anonymous No.213510]

>>213400
destroying the consumer base's ability to consume surely is a winning strategy.

though I guess it's ok. American companies already have most of their money stored overseas along with their workforce. They can just relocate to Dubai when America is all used up and collapsed.

[Anonymous No.213530]

>>213199
Not mad, just flabbergasted that so many people would reject econometrics almost as a whole because "muh deductions are more insightful than the large scale macroeconometric models we've been relying on since Tinbergen".

[Anonymous No.214168]

>>213124
>1) How did central banks cause the crisis more than the investment bankers
Um the central bankers gave the investment bankers trillions of dollars to gamble with?

>an extremely small group of people
Their size isn't important, their power is.

[Anonymous No.214180]

>>213203
>I'm a Marxist
Then you hate science and don't belong here.

>from far right McCarthyist propaganda
Awwww poor genocidal babby.

>Frankfurt School
You're asking everyone to hate evolution and biology and instead believe in your obvious pseudoscience.

Please kill yourself your emotional appeals aren't working.

[Anonymous No.214185]

>>213291
You ACTUALLY believe a "base" and "superstructure" are responsible for all human behavior.

It's absolutely hilarious you biology deniers even exist.

Put a bullet in your head.

[Anonymous No.214190]

>>213334
>Please explain to me how Keynesianism has been "debunked" by a religion too afraid of math and statistics

>>213397
>so much better this new economic model of corporate feudalism.
The system we have right now IS your system.

[Anonymous No.214239]

>>214190
You realise that by posting this image you've demonstrated you don't understand economics in the least, right? Not only can C go up as a result of government spending, but the image fails to separate the proportion of I that is from govt spending. Probably because the person who made it is as dumb as you are.

[Anonymous No.214292]

>>214239
>being this mad that keynes can't even do basic mathematics

>thinking the complex interactions of billions of people can be boiled down to a simple mathematical model

Go back to your precious time cube website.

[Anonymous No.214295]

>>214239
Also the same guy has intense debates with keynesians on this forum who probably bring up the same arguments you do.

Protip: They keynesians don't win.

http://archive.freecapitalists.org/forums/t/25406.aspx

[Anonymous No.214565]

>>214292
>>214295

>the keynesian who posted on a website called freecapitalists.org didn't win a debate against free market capitalists on a website called freecapitalists.org

Can you please stop posting and go back to your quarantine board at >>>/pol/ pls

Also, Keynes didn't fuck up at math, the anon your replying to has it down, your just ignoring him because your little cult says so.

>>thinking the complex interactions of billions of people can be boiled down to a simple mathematical model

Except it can you autistic moron. Although people aren't always rational thinkers, they interact with resources (ie money) in a very predictable way to the point where we can model their behavior with mathematical formulae, Bayesian probabilities and regression analysis, and sometimes even heuristic search functions.

Fact it kiddo, economics has moved on past mere philosophy. You need empirical evidence to support your school, which is why Mises is bunk.

[Anonymous No.214577]

>>214565
>Can you please stop posting and go back to your quarantine board at >>>/pol/ pls

Can YOU please stop posting and go back to /pol/?

This is the economics board and the majority of economists on 4chan are austrians.

>the anon your replying to has it down,
he never answered the math, only it's implications.

> because your little cult says so.
oh the irony

>Except it can you autistic moron
lol it can't it really cant

>Although people aren't always rational thinkers, they interact with resources (ie money) in a very predictable way to the point where we can model their behavior with mathematical formulae,
But people aren't rational so the models break down all the time.
How many times does keynes have to be proven wrong for you retards to go away.

>You need empirical evidence to support your school,
Which is why mises has PLENTY

[Anonymous No.214644]

>>214577
>This is the economics board and the majority of economists on 4chan are austrians.
Opinionated neckbeards do not get to just call themselves "economists" because they think they've been enlightened by their intelligence. You need to have some actual academic qualifications (i.e. econ 101) if you want to be taken seriously. Self-proclaimed 4chan "economists" have no more right to be here than anybody else.

Please continue furiously stamping your little Internet feet though, it is entertaining.

[Anonymous No.214650]

>>214577

>This is the economics board and the majority of economists on 4chan are austrians.

Every time you faggots make an Austrian school or edgy freedumbs thread on /biz/ you get BTFO because unlike /pol/ people on here actually studied economics and know how retarded Misesfags are.

>he never answered the math, only it's implications

No, he did. But I'll go on further.

Y = C + I isn't even correct in the first place because it assumes C and I are constants. C and I are separate functions. C = a + b(Y) where a is autonomous consumption and b is marginal propensity to consume. A change in C is affected by the MPS, it isn't just like Y goes up by 1 therefore C goes up exactly by 1. This is where the multiplier kicks in. Same goes for I, which is also a function.

If you actually took Econ 101 instead of hiding in your Mises "dun need no math" bubble, you wouldn't be so obviously ignorant.

>But people aren't rational so the models break down all the time

They aren't always rational, but when it comes to money they are PREDICTABLE. The models aren't 100% accurate but they are a far, far, far better way to gauge human behaviour regarding resources than the psuedo-science shit Misesfags use called praxeology. Funny enough, most of the models you learn in grad school, like the DMP model, are written by free market proponents. You know, the ones that aren't braindead enough to subscribe to the Church of Mises.

>Which is why mises has PLENTY

No, the Chicago School has plenty. Neoliberalism has plenty. Lausanne School has plenty. Mises borrows their "evidence" from these schools, but when they try to support their fringe ideas such as the abolishment of monetary policy, not even other libertarian economists will back them up.

If you actually read Human Action, he literally says that empirical evidence isn't necessary and that his "logical deduction" (read: bullshit) is enough to prove the retarded shit he spouts right.

[Anonymous No.214670]

>>214644
>Opinionated neckbeards do not get to just call themselves "economists"
No, but austrian economists who've actually studied these works that make you so butthurt do.


>You need to have some actual academic qualifications
Why do you actually believe truth comes from authority.

As if university professors paid by the state have some hidden knowledge that other people do not?

[Anonymous No.214676]

>>214577
>This is the economics board and the majority of economists on 4chan are austrians.

[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.214703]

>>214644
>Please continue furiously stamping your little Internet feet though, it is entertaining.
The irony is hilarious.

>>214650
>you get BTFO
HAH

Have you fucking been here since this board was created?

>actually studied economics
>ACHUKLLYY UNDERSTAND
Enjoy your debt slavery for your keynesian professor.

>Mises "dun need no math" bubble
Austrian economics does plenty of math.

>They aren't always rational, but when it comes to money they are PREDICTABLE
Seeing keynesian failures the past few decades, not so much lol

>psuedo-science shit Misesfags use called praxeology.
Even though our theories called the great depression while keynes was clueless.
Even though we called this depression and you cunts were CLUELESS.
>b-b-but like maybe 2 of of said something about it so that means we called it too

>are written by free market proponents.
Central banking is anti free market.

>Church of Mises.
You are BY DEFINITION a religious fundie.
Seriously.

>Mises borrows their "evidence" from these schools
When it supports their theories, yes.
Nothing wrong with this.

>but when they try to support their fringe ideas such as the abolishment of monetary policy
We have plenty of evidence on our side.

Look at the fucking gilded age.
Are double digit rates of economic growth, massive price decreases, massive wage increases, and low unemployment something you don't understand?

Oh and those "panics" that occurred during those times, what are government economic controls

>he literally says that empirical evidence isn't necessary
Is empirical evidence necessary for mathematics?
That was his point.

[Anonymous No.214704]

>>214670
>No, but austrian economists who've actually studied these works that make you so butthurt do.
The only people who are butthurt around here are Austrians who are mad that nobody takes them seriously and coddles them like on /pol/.

>As if university professors paid by the state have some hidden knowledge that other people do not?
No, but universities are generally pretty good at filtering out cranks and pseudoscience. If your brilliant theories can't hack it at SOME university that's not a good sign for you.

I mean, you guys are all too happy to post dubious images and link dumps when you think the research supports you.

[Anonymous No.214724]

>>214704
>The only people who are butthurt around here are Austrians
>everyone else is butthurt except for me
Are you okay?

>mad that nobody takes them seriously
Lol this entire thread is about mocking keynesians and marxists, every economics thread on this board is about this.
My sides, holy shit.

>No, but universities are generally pretty good at filtering out cranks and pseudoscience.
They're AWFUL at it.
Why do you think they're filled with fucking marxists?
Holy shit and there's NO competition, whatever ideology can weasel it's way into the uni bureaucracy will win and be force fed to delusional idiots like you who actually spent money on it.

The university system came from statist Christianity and STILL has the same way of functioning.

[Anonymous No.214726]

Yeah Keynes was a genius, seriously. I hate technology and high living standards.

[Anonymous No.214748]

>>214724
>Lol this entire thread is about mocking keynesians and marxists, every economics thread on this board is about this.
You are seriously delusional. Just read your own posts. The people arguing with you are just humoring you, while you think you're actually making a point. It's just like watching a creationist declare victory.

>i dun need none of ur edjumacation rabble rabble marxists grr statists der hidin the truth
lmao.

[Anonymous No.214760]

I don't know what you are on about.

State Capitalism's success in China proves that government combined with capitalist interests beat the free market time and time again.

I mean 1936 Germany was technically State Capitalist (along with fascist Italy) and Germany had the fastest growing economy during the damn depression and was the first country to get out of it. They would have continued to be a paragon of how to make an economy work had not Mr. Hitler decide to screw the pooch by starting WW2.

China proves that governmental interference done correctly can make the economy work a great deal more efficiently than free market capitalists could ever dream of.

Of course Socialism and Communism isn't State Capitalism either.

State Capitalism is basically taking free market capitalism and giving it steroids by purposely making things better for your country's economy while making it shit for competing countries.

I mean if you are US business and you want to do business in China, you are basically competing with not only Chinese businesses but the whole damn Chinese State as well.

When Chinese companies come over here they just have to fight businesses and bribe a few lobbyists to have their way.

Admit it. State Capitalism is the way empires are made.

What the hell this has to do with Keynesian is that he was on to something, but instead of a central bank, you have the whole goddamn state back your business.

[Anonymous No.214774]

>>214748
>The people arguing with you
Oh you mean just you and another idiot.

>while you think you're actually making a point.
I've made countless points.

>It's just like watching a creationist declare victory.
Leftists ARE creationists lol

>lmao.
>i actually paid money to enslave myself to my marxist professor while this information was avail online
lmao

>>214760
>State Capitalism's success in China proves that government combined with capitalist interests beat the free market time and time again.
>EVERYONE IN AMERICA SHOULD LIVE LIKE A WORKER IN A FOXCONN FACTORY IN CHINA

HAHAHAHHA

HOLY FUCK

If china let their currency rise and allowed a free market, china would actually have a middle class and be able to consume the products they actually fucking make.

>and Germany had the fastest growing economy
Except it actually fucking didn't.

Food rationing and POVERTY is not an "economy"
You brainwashed idiot.

You people think FDR fixed the great depression too lol wow

>China proves that governmental interference done correctly can make the economy work a great deal
Lol oh god

PLEASE move there.

I'll continue to be a free market capitalist and support 1950s america, and actual high living standards and freedom

[Anonymous No.214776]

>>214670

>still posting on this thread when you've been BTFO

Also, I just noticed something from that picture in >>214190

It claims k = dY/dI (or dY/d(C,G,etc))

That's not even correct. The k value (aka the Keynesian multiplier) is actually 1/(1-e) where e = MPC+MPI. The k value is only dY/dI AFTER the multiplier has come into affect.

Now can this picture please be deleted from the internet now?

>>214703

>Austrian economics does plenty of math.

Haha, no. You find me a mathematical model accredited to the Austrian school that we still use today. Go. Hurry up, kid. I ain't got all day.

>Even though our theories called the great depression while keynes was clueless.
>Even though we called this depression and you cunts were CLUELESS.
>>b-b-but like maybe 2 of of said something about it so that means we called it too

First of all, stop typing like an aspie. Your grammar mistakes are embarassing, wipe the sweat off your palms so its not so obvious your trembling while typing damage control posts.

Now, I'll give you the great depression. They indeed did predict it. Good job.

Fast forward to the more recent era.

They think deflation is good when it destroys economies
They think the Fed created business cycles, when in fact there were business cycles even before central banking.
They think their version of the business cycle aka ABCT is correct when even Friedman says its BS and it relies on a single rate of interest when there are many such rates.
They think inflation = increases in the money supply, which is why they screamed hurr durr muh hyperinflation when the Fed increased the money supply ten-fold and then ran back to their caves when inflation actually went down.
Their theory on stagflation and shock therapy fucked the economies of Bolivia, Chile, the USSR over.
And worst of all, they actually think that if we hit another recession, all we have to do is sit back and let it happen because muh freedumbs.

This is why no one takes you guys seriously.

[Anonymous No.214778]

>>214726
look at those fucking lips. who the fuck would ever kiss that shit his mouth looks like a porcupine on a 90 year old vagina

[Anonymous No.214804]

>>214703

>Central banking is anti free market

Yes it is. Which is why I mentioned the DMP model written by free market economists. Do you know what the DMP model is? Did you bother googling it before you posted that? Are you this retarded?

>You are BY DEFINITION a religious fundie

>Praxeology

Here's a quotation from Mises.

"Its statements and propositions are not derived from experience... They are not subject to verification or falsification on the ground of experience and facts."

Yes, he actually says this. You tell me, which one is the religion now?

>gilded age
>muh gilded age

Shit son, apparently all you Misesfags can do is reminisce about the past. Please stop hearkening back to an era when the standard of living wouldn't even permit you the leisure and luxury of shitposting on 4chan.

>Is empirical evidence necessary for mathematics?

It is when we're talking about the applications of mathematical models on finance. How dense are you, seriously?

[Anonymous No.214811]

>>214760

I agree. However you can't get a government competent enough to make it work in a democratic country.

[Anonymous No.214809]

>>214776
>>still posting on this thread when you've been BTFO
>still projecting in a thread where you have been BTFO

>Haha, no. You find me a mathematical model accredited to the Austrian school that we still use today.
There actually use very little math because math isn't very applicable to economics as other subjects.
Deal with it.

>First of all, stop typing like an aspie.
You mean things that hurt your feelings?
:^)

>wipe the sweat off your palms so its not so obvious your trembling while typing damage control posts.
It's okay, you can relax now.
:^)

>They indeed did predict it. Good job.
Because we were literally literally literally correct and wrote countless well-sourced books on it.

Why does this upset you?

>They think deflation is good when it destroys economies
Meanwhile it basically created the industrial revolution and gilded age.
lel

>when in fact there were business cycles even before central banking.
What is FRB
Here's an explanation for all of those "panics"
http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Panics

There's even more for the panics in other countries too if you are interested.

>when even Friedman says its BS
He was keynesian lite.

>which is why they screamed hurr durr muh hyperinflation when the Fed increased the money supply ten-fold
The united states has the world reserve currency, they can simply export their inflation.
Wait, you don't even know this? lol

>when inflation actually went down.
You actually believe the state numbers when they admit they completely changed the methodology? lol

>Their theory on stagflation and shock therapy
>AUSTRIANS ARE CHICAGO SCHOOL GUISE

>,all we have to do is sit back and let it happen
Oh like 1921? and we can wait 6 months and the economy will restructure?
That would be awesome bro.

:^)

>This is why no one takes you guys seriously.
This is why more and more people are listening to us. You guys were wrong.

[Anonymous No.214820]

>>214804
>Yes it is. Which is why I mentioned the DMP model written by free market economists. Do you know what the DMP model is? Did you bother googling it before you posted that? Are you this retarded?
Didn't I already talk to you before, faggot.
Didn't I already prove you wrong on that?

>Here's a quotation from Mises.
Lol holy shit, you keep repeating this but we keep debunking and explaining it.

The same exact thing mises is saying also applies to mathematics. You wouldn't want to deny math would you?

>which one is the religion now?
You?

>Shit son, apparently all you Misesfags can do is reminisce about the past.
Awwwww, looks like the keynesian faggot is upset that a gigantic period of american history where we basically went hardcore free market contradicts his theories.

So fucking mad.

>It is when we're talking about the applications of mathematical models on finance.
No fucking shit, if austraians realize reality doesn't agree with their theories, they go back and change the praxeology and logic.

[Anonymous No.214822]

>>214760
Market-Leninist inefficiencies are mostly qualitative broham; as in the massive bribery problem and corruption problem. And do we really have to go into the social problems of 1936 Germany and Italy? The problem ends up being the use of coercion, whether direct and obvious (holocaust) or indirect and hard to see (gazprom, everything china). Did you know they boil babies in parts of China as a Sex enhancer? If you think this type of degenerative behavior isn't the fault of state (again in an indirect way which is hard to see) then you need to restudy economics and history.

Even the quant measures are bullshit. China might have 8% percent gdp growth, but it has, since about 2006, funneled an amount of money though their banking system which, in our annual gdp terms would be equal to about $23 trillion dollars. Doesn't this explain the rapid expansion of their economy, which came about without any real innovations? Just go get a cheap ass loan to start up a counterfeiting operation. No innovation, no strength to the invisible hand.

This bait tasted gr8 btw me m8e

[Anonymous No.214823]

>>214774
>Leftists ARE creationists lol
First of all, they literally are not (to my knowledge)
Secondly, I like how you just assume that anyone who disagrees with you must be your rabid leftist counterpart. This is exactly how religious fundies think.

>>i actually paid money to enslave myself to my marxist professor while this information was avail online
What exactly do you guys think goes on in a university lecture? No professor has the ability to "enslave" their students; at worst the student has to put up with stuff they disagree with because the person who has a PhD and has studied the subject in question for most of his or her life decided to include it in the coursework. But you can still disagree after you graduate.

As far as online education goes, it clearly hasn't done enough for you. The information is not even one of the primary benefits of university, by the way.

[Anonymous No.214830]

>>214823
>First of all, they literally are not (to my knowledge)
Marxism denies evolution.
Liberals deny race.
Keynesians subscribe to a system that developed from christianity.

>Secondly, I like how you just assume that anyone who disagrees with you must be your rabid leftist counterpart.
But it's true 90% of the time.

> No professor has the ability to "enslave" their students
No you idiot, I'm talking financially. Lol enjoy your jacked up tuition prices while having no idea while the price is so high.

> it clearly hasn't done enough for you.
Really?
I guarantee I live a better life than you and make more money.

I bet you're not even studying anti-aging technologies in a lab.
lol faggot

[Anonymous No.214831]

Hah. Its so funny when people can't see the facts in front of them.

China has a growth of 7% GDP compared to the USA's measly 2.4% something now.

Its still so strong the Chinese government is actually trying to get their GDP to be reduced to a goal of 5%.

At this rate China will surpass the US economy sometime between 2016 and 2025. They say it will 2022 by some. That's only 8 years to go. Considering China was a backwater hellhole only 30 years ago, its amazing growth.

Mark my word. China will be calling the shots because they believe in State Capitalism.

Its not about having a middle class you imbecile, but having the most powerful elite money can buy.

Oh and you said 1936 Germany was a shit hole... The Germans (well the non-Jewish ones) thought Hitler was the best thing to happen to them. They had 30%
unemployment when the Nazi's came to power. By 1938, unemployment was practically extinct. Wages increased by 10.9% in real terms during this period.

Yes there was rationing, but that was because Germany had switched to a war industry and had to psychologically get its people used to rationing for war.

Had they focused on economy rather than their war machine they would have continued to by the world's number one economy.

Oh speaking of which the US was still in a depression from 1936 to 1941. What got them out of it was the war. All those men put into the army received incomes and the rest of the people not fighting were put into factories.

That is also State Capitalism as the government was paying for all the weapons of war being made. Which lead to the great economy of the 1950's.

Or do you still want to debate facts.

State capitalism beats free market.

Though I'll bet you'll still say Austrian's were right, when the Chinese ask us to start teaching Mandarin to our kids because they own all the lobbyists.

[Anonymous No.214842]

>>214831

Clearly you don't understand convergence theory. I mean why would you, clearly you're an edgy 17 year old.

[Anonymous No.214845]

Oh and to people who say those Chinese GDP is an illusion, then care to explain their export numbers? Their employment numbers? The fact that all the major US tech companies outsource to them in some fashion.

And you care to compare that to what they were 30 years ago?

State Capitalism transformed China from a backwater hellhole into a modern state it is today. You can just look at the pictures of Shanghai 30 years ago to see the transformation.

Free market capitalism could not have achieved this in such a short period of time.

[Anonymous No.214851]

>>214830
>Marxism denies evolution.
>Liberals deny race.
>Keynesians subscribe to a system that developed from christianity.
lol, are you a "race realist" too? You really need to go back to /pol/. The amount of euphoria you're emanating right now is almost too much to take.

>No you idiot, I'm talking financially. Lol enjoy your jacked up tuition prices while having no idea while the price is so high.
Wow, I gave you way too much credit. That's even more stupid. Smart people get financial aid (not loans), so the financial impact of university is minimal (besides opportunity costs). Most jobs that are interesting and pay worth a shit are a LOT easier to get if you have a degree. But good for you if you're running you're own business or whatever, though I doubt that because you honestly come off as a retard.

[Anonymous No.214862]

Oh yeah the convergence theory.

It says that poor countries will have higher growth than rich countries because of certain criteria.

However, it only works when countries support things like education. Apparently liberty doesn't matter. Poor countries that did not support education are still poor.

Oh.... I suppose that means that government that had government spending into education came out on top.

Oh oh. That's not free market numbskull.

That is pretty obviously damn government intervention. Which is pretty much what State Capitalism is.

Seriously, who do you think pays for all those engineering degrees in China. Certainly not the poor people living in the backcountry who earn $1 a day.

It came from the goddamn state and the state run universities.

[Anonymous No.214863]

>>214831
>State capitalism beats free market.

>china beats 1950s usa

This is ALL that needs to be said lol.

You have just been proven wrong.

Go live in china.

>>214851
>lol, are you a "race realist" too?
LOL are you a "racial egalitarian" too.

You actually deny the complex structure of the brain?

My fuck you truly are a religious fundamentalist?
Does the fact different races exist upset you?

>You really need to go back to /pol/.
You need to go back to /pol/ if you refuse to argue.

>The amount of euphoria you're emanating right now
ahahhahahah

holy fuck, you're an actual libtard, seriously

Take your fedora and get the fuck back to reddit, SERIOUSLY.

You actually think you waste of flesh can take our memes and somehow make them your own?

Success breed jealousy I guess.

>Smart people get financial aid (not loans)
Which also increases tuition
lel

>so the financial impact of university is minimal
Yeah, the fact tuition has raised in price dramatically over the past 40 years is meaningless lol

People used to be able to work a summer at a restaurant to pay for their entire 4 years at college.

You keynesians are such tools.

[Anonymous No.214867]

>>214845
>CHINA IS BETTER THAN AMERICA
>SLAVERY IS BETTER THAN FREEDOM

Why do you even exist?

Just shut the fuck up right now

[Anonymous No.214872]

>>214809
>>214820

>There actually use very little math because math isn't very applicable to economics as other subjects.
>Austrian economics does plenty of math.

These are both sentences you wrote. Look at them both, one after the other. Read them. Compare them. Understand why you are an autist.

Now go back to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.214870]

>>214862
>Certainly not the poor people living in the backcountry who earn $1 a day.
Those are the statist/socialist counties.

Do the facts make you mad.

see pic

[Anonymous No.214882]

Look retard. I specifically said that modern day China is going to beat the USA economy in the near future.

Look. If we don't try State Capitalism ourselves (which is unlikely due to the nature of psuedo-democratic nations) then we are doomed to be a Chinese colony just like they are doing to Africa now.

Seriously. Are you not paying attention to the news. China is pouring billions into Africa just to own their resources.

Eventually, they'll start to eye ours and our "representatives" in Washington democrat and republican will simply kow-tow to the people who fund their campaigns.

Actually, I'm not arguing to have State Capitalism because it kind of already exists but it lacks the nationalistic imperative that China has.

I'm mostly pointing out that its the system of empires and it has discarded the notions of free market capitalism as something to be desired.

Well we all better brush up on our Mandarin for our new overlords.

[Anonymous No.214880]

>>214872
>>Austrian economics does plenty of math.
It does.
I didn't contradict myself.

It does use plenty, it uses what is required to actually do economics.

Stay mad.

Lol does the gilded age actually make you this mad?

[Anonymous No.214887]

>>211430
>God Tier:
All the ideas from all the 'schools' of economic though that are true
>Shit tier:
Anything else

[Anonymous No.214896]

>>214863
>our memes
LOLOLOLOLO OMG HE ACTUALLY SAID IT HAHAHAHA

Holy shit kid, do you even know where that stupid meme originated from? Fucking Reddit. It wasn't even /pol/ that popularized it on 4chan.

>LOL are you a "racial egalitarian" too.
I only mentioned it because it demonstrates that you're the perfect caricature of the average 4chan neckbeard. You realize the truth about race (namely, that blacks are inferior). You hate feminism and the degeneracy its responsible for. You understand that leftism is a cult. You know better than the plebeians who believe in such broken systems as democracy and the state. You are truly among the enlightened. If only we would listen to you.

[Anonymous No.214900]

>>214870

Umm.... You just showed me a pic with statistics from 1999. China is way more wealthier now.

One can simply look at pictures of their cities compared from the 1990's and now. So yeah.

Look. I'm not actually saying we should all live in China and worship Mao. I'm saying State Capitalism works and we should consider it as a model.

Don't confuse it with Communism, Marxism, or Socialism. It has all the bad parts of Capitalism in there, but instead of the government doing nothing, it acts like a partner in the business.

It basically makes the power of the business exponential.

What I am trying to say is that if Free Market Captialism is the only way to go and the Austrian school was right and there is never any exception, then China should not exist.

It should be dirt poor and all the world's manufacturing should be in Somalia because they don't have any government regulation.

[Anonymous No.214907]

>>214880

>trying this hard at damage control

Its over kid. You just stated yourself math isn't very applicable to economics, and then you said Austrian economics does plenty of math.

You can't suck your Mises's cock to get out of this one.

But your wrong anyway. You haven't given me any explanation as to why math isn't able to model human behavior perfectly. I never said it was 100% accurate or perfect, but its definitely better than muh praxeology.

We use calculus and statistics in psychology and human biology. We use math to model financial instruments such as money, and people move along with resources.

Also,

>he actually thinks there was deflation and that it helped the industrial revolution
>he just linked me to a Mises wiki to support his backwater ideology
>he's one of those tinfoil hat /pol/ kiddies who thinks the CPI and GDP Deflator are secret gubmint tools to hide real inflation when he can do the calculations at home if he wanted to
>he thinks shock therapy was Chicago school
>he doesn't even know what the DMP model is and he calls himself a free market capitalist
>he's still using praxeology and logic as if they are interchangeable

my sides, keep splitting them, anon

[Anonymous No.214910]

Read and weep for your free markets....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/opinion/sunday/chinas-economic-empire.html?_r=0

The Chinese want to buy Smithfield Food's for fucksake.

They will have control over your fatty hams you hambeasts.

[Anonymous No.214917]

Actually it looks like the sale of Smithfield Food's went through. And its a Chinese state own company.

So when you gobble down on Smithfield hams (you hambeasts) you are supporting State Capitalism.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/markets/item/16544-chinese-state-owned-company-purchases-smithfield-foods

[Anonymous No.214929]

>>214880
It isn't about doing fancy math, its about testing to see if that fancy math fits with reality, which Austrians don't do to LOL PRAXEOLOGY.

When the Fed increases the money supply 10 times, and you predict rampant hyperinflation, and we get mild inflation, then there's something very wrong with your model.

[Anonymous No.214939]

>>214882
>Look retard. I specifically said that modern day China is going to beat the USA economy in the near future.
and I agree with you.

but for the wrong reasons,

again, stop posting

>>214896
>LOLOLOLOLO OMG HE ACTUALLY SAID IT HAHAHAHA
LOLGSGOOLBOMA ABNA XHS GLOTLES

Are you 13?

>Fucking Reddit
Oh god,
Like all memes, it came from here and mutated on fucking reddit an d they changed it

get the fuck out

>I only mentioned it because it demonstrates that you're the perfect caricature of the average 4chan neckbeard.
>evil racist 4chan neckbeard
Lol this has nothing to do with anything
4chan is the website that trolls neckbears

Perhaps you should go back to reddit.

>namely, that blacks are inferior
Define inferior.
I have many black friends, stay mad.

You're just as dumb on evolution as you are on economics.

>You know better than the plebeians who believe in such broken systems as democracy and the state
Honestly, yes lel, I do.

>>214900
>you're STILL shitposting
did you even read my posts

You're happy the chinese work for foxconn

get the fuck out

>>214907
>Its over kid.
For you.

>and then you said Austrian economics does plenty of math.
Yes, the plenty that is applicable to economics. lol

>You haven't given me any explanation as to why math isn't able to model human behavior perfectly.
You haven't given me any explanation as to why math IS able to model human behavior perfectly.

The burden of proof is on you.

>but its definitely better than muh praxeology.
Yet we are correct and predict better lol.

>We use calculus and statistics in psychology and human biology.
So do we.

>>he actually thinks there was deflation and that it helped the industrial revolution
There was ginormous deflation.
Are you ACTUALLY denying this?
Holy shit you ARE a creationist. Holy fuck EVERYONE KNOWS THIS EVEN MARXISTS

>>he's one of those tinfoil hat /pol/ kiddies who thinks the CPI and GDP Deflator are secret gubmint tools
>HE BELIEVE THE STATE RUN CPI FIGURES

[Anonymous No.214943]

>>214910
That just gives more support to the free market.

Oh god lol you actually support slavery and people ruling you.

[Anonymous No.214946]

>>214929
>its about testing to see if that fancy math fits with reality
Yet it doesn't in 100% cases of keynesian theory.
Meanwhile austrian theory has predicted basically every recession.

Stay mad.

[Anonymous No.214949]

>>211430
Where does the Frankfurt School fit in here?

[Bro-Tier Libertarian No.214951]

>arguing on the weekend

I'm going to party with my gf

Stay mad at being wrong about everything including the gilded age.

If you actually reply, I'll debate you maybe tomorrow.

lel

[Bro-Tier Libertarian No.214954]

>>214949
>Where does the Frankfurt School fit in here?
As a cancer on humanity who's theories are wrong and contradict themselves?

[Anonymous No.214952]

>>214946
[citation needed]

Krugman was predicting trouble brewing back when the godsend of Austrian Economics Peter Schif was doing it and he's a massive fan of Keynes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4ExWEAl_k

So much for your canard.

[Anonymous No.214959]

>>214952
>Krugman was predicting trouble brewing
He WANTED the housing crises.

and inb4 you say "I was only pretending to be retarded"
lel

http://archive.mises.org/10153/krugman-did-cause-the-housing-bubble/
https://mises.org/daily/6372/

Guy was a cunt liar.

Why do you central banking fascists exist?

You know you're not going to get anything out of this.

Why are you so sycophantic?

[Anonymous No.214964]

>>214943

I don't get it. So if the United States goes on the path of Austrian School of Economics full force... Which leads to the eventually buyout of US companies to Chinese interests (well because if the US government prevented US companies from being sold to the Chinese that wouldn't be free market now would it?) That will somehow magically get the Chinese to see the error in their ways and allow free elections and free market?

I suppose you would say that if we went full Austrian that our companies would be so wealthy that it would be impossible for the Chinese to buy them.

Oh wait. The Chinese could just print more money than the US because we'd be stuck on a gold standard.

I suppose we'd have to rely on the self interest of the US businesses not to earn more money by selling to the Chinese.

*sigh*

I'm not saying we should turn into China. I'm just pointing out they are winning the fight.

Free market won't win this one. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.214968]

>>214959
It doesn't matter.

The fact is that he predicted that the housing bust would happen, thus shattering your canard in the first place.

That aside, if you look at what he was saying in those quotes, he was basically saying what he said in the interview: low interest rates lead to the housing boom which offset the tech bust. There's really very little debate about that.

Now, he was saying that back in the early 2000s when those policies look feasible. Now flash forward a couple of years, and he's blaming the Fed for keeping rates too low for too long.

[Anonymous No.214973]

>>214939

>Yes, the plenty that is applicable to economics. lol

Now your just making me laugh. Your a troll right? No one can be this stupid.

>You haven't given me any explanation as to why math IS able to model human behavior perfectly.

I already did you inept shitstain. Dat reading comprehension.

>Yet we are correct and predict better lol

lol

>There was ginormous deflation.

You mean what they call the Great Slag? Where businesses in manufacturing got absolutely raped?

Are you seriously arguing for deflation? I don't even think that's what Mises even advocates, so I'm going to presume your a troll. If not, then you really need to read up on massive deflation during the Great Depression and how it fucked everyone over.

>>HE BELIEVE THE STATE RUN CPI FIGURES

AHAHAHAHHAHA. OH MY FUCKING GOD ARE YOU SERIOUS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_price_index

There's the formula. Go do the calculations yourself if your that afraid of big bad gubmint.

>inb4 this Misesfag can't handle elementary math calculations

>>214959

>He WANTED the housing crises.

[citation needed]

inb4 cherry picked quotation mining

[Anonymous No.214975]

>>214939
You do know that there's independent think tanks and agencies that calculate inflation right?

[Anonymous No.214978]

>>214939
>Like all memes, it came from here and mutated on fucking reddit an d they changed it
No, dumbass. It literally started from a post on Reddit. Autists on Reddit invented that shit, 4chan adopted it because it's hilarious.

>4chan is the website that trolls neckbears
Are you idiots now trying to redefine "neckbeard"? 4chan has always been neckbeard central. It's clear that the only boards you frequent are /pol/-tier trash. You are cancer.

>I have many black friends, stay mad.
Oh? I'm curious. How did they respond when you educated them about the reality of race?

>You're just as dumb on evolution as you are on economics.
You do not know my beliefs on either biology or economics. You're actually making things up just so you can be mad at me. lel.

[Anonymous No.214998]

>>211430
Can someone explain to me Chicago?
I know Keynesian and Austrian, but never read up on Chigaco

[Anonymous No.215008]

>>214978
go back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.215036]

Greenland, a massive resource-rich territory largely controlled by Denmark, is a case in point. Last year, it passed legislation to allow foreign workers into the country who earned salaries below the local legal minimum wage (the minimum wage there is one of the highest in the world). Chinese representatives had made it clear that Chinese state-owned banks and companies would invest in the high-risk, costly exploitation of Greenland’s vast mining resources only if the modification of local regulations would allow the arrival of thousands of low-wage Chinese workers.

The Arctic territory didn’t have too many alternatives. No other country is in a position to become Greenland’s strategic partner for its future development, given the business risks involved in the Arctic region and the scale of the investment needed in a territory bigger than Mexico but without a single highway. An American oil company couldn’t have handled the task alone. The Chinese state capitalist system, by contrast, allows multiple state-owned companies to work together, making it possible for the China National Petroleum Corporation, for instance, to extract oil while China Railway builds basic infrastructure.

Greenland’s leaders accepted China’s terms because they likely believed these costly projects might never go ahead if the Chinese didn’t get involved; only China has the money, the demand, the experience and the political will to proceed. Moreover, there are not enough skilled workers in Greenland for such projects, so the Greenlandic government made an exception to the law, allowing Chinese laborers to earn less than minimum wage figuring that local residents would benefit from new infrastructure and royalties.

[Anonymous No.215039]

>>214998
Chicago:
1) Economic agents (people) are a lot more rational than keynesians expect them to be, and people optimize accordingly, and for the reason, government policy tends to be poor or counterproductive.
2) Markets have to clear
3) Back everything up with math and empirical data

That's pretty much the heart of Chicago school economics. Everything else is derived from this. For example, the Chicago school counters the Keynesian approach to fiscal multipliers by several arguments
- People base their consumption of expected lifetime income, not current income (i.e. if your income *temporarily* doubles today, you don't immediately spend double, you'll likely save most of it because you try to smooth consumption)
- Governments can't spend perform fiscal injections for free - they end up drawing capital from other uses, thus pushing up interest rates (if they borrow) or inflation (if they print)

Friedman would have supported QE because the effective money supply collapsed during the crisis when all the banks stopped lending to each other. That said, he usual opposes discretionary monetary policy.

Also the Chicago school is much more concerned with microeconomics than macroeconomics. Their whole approach to macro is that it's an extension of micro.

(This is a very simplistic and illustrative explanation)

[Anonymous No.215046]

>>214998

Chicago is home to the monetarists such as Friedman, who believe in free trade and lower taxes but diverge from Austrian nuts in that they advocate some gov't intervention in the form of manipulation of the money supply to change the interest rate and control inflation. Although most Chicago school folks don't share the Keynesian homolove for inflation, they aren't kooky enough to consider deflation like the Misesfags.

[Anonymous No.215609]

>>214910
The US isn't a free market anymore...