Australian Tax and crypto

[Anonymous No.20858316]

Is there any legit way to not pay tax on gains?

[Anonymous No.20858350]

I'm working through 3 years of trades with crypto tax people now. Fucking pain in the arse it's almost impossible to bring all that information together, especially from 2017 when you were basically buying and selling shitcoins every day on exchanges that don't even exist any more.
Australia following the US on c2c trades is fucking stupid, it should just be money in, money out.

[Anonymous No.20858358]

hold over 12 months for the cgt discount
if trading is your job you can have it taxed as income
if you have a company you could prob filter it through that and pay company tax

besides that, not really

[Anonymous No.20858407]

reminder ato consider as ctg if u transfer from wallets to binance to wallets for a single trade. These jews are fucked. If u transfer ur shitcoin to aave that is also ctg.

[Anonymous No.20858425]

>>20858407
without a single trade*

[Anonymous No.20858443]

HAHAHAHA

Get a crypto tax agent immediatly, if you have opened an account on btcmarkets, coinspot, coinbase

you're fucked if you hadn't register the trades.

I did three years of peiceing together shitcoins and paid my agent $1,700 for the benefit of it. Better than prison.

[Anonymous No.20858450]

>>20858407
lmao fuck these kooks

[Anonymous No.20858466]

>Haven't paid any taxes
>Haven't gotten any emails
I've compiled spreadsheets for all exchanges of trades and deposits/withdrawals that haven't imploded yet but I'm not going to take any action until they tell me to do so. On another note, how does Bitmex work when you get liq'd?

[Anonymous No.20858467]

>>20858443
I kmow the rules. But uh, the ATO can’t track every wallet and coin through each wallet. The problem is retrieving the cash...

[Anonymous No.20858477]

>>20858443
did you wait until you got an email?

now im freaking out

[Anonymous No.20858484]

>>20858407
Is this true...? It doesn't make any sense that it would generate a taxable event just by moving currency from wallet to wallet

[Anonymous No.20858495]

>>20858484
yeah think out YFI farming.

you'd be fucked interacting with it

[Anonymous No.20858506]

>>20858484
This isn’t true. Transferring between wallets is not a reportable event

[Anonymous No.20858507]

>>20858316
tokentax? or is it just for burgers? you could just buy Suterusu and never sell.

[Anonymous No.20858519]

>>20858506
transfering from wallets to another is not, transferring to binance and then out is.

[Anonymous No.20858524]

https://www.finder.com.au/cryptocurrency-tax-guide

[Anonymous No.20858529]

paying gct on ctc trades would fuck every yield farmer. i refuse to pay tax on such an outdated law

[Anonymous No.20858579]

>>20858519
the australian tax office does not and can not data share with offshore crypto exchanges

[Anonymous No.20858583]

>>20858316

The only way is to put money in off the books

Sort your shit out with the stuff the gov can trace through blockchain analysis then buy OTC without KYC to have money off the books

Then trade until your heart is content and never have to worry about reconciling trades

Cashing out you will need to do overseas of OTC

[Anonymous No.20858603]

>>20858579
yea but they can see ur shitcoin going directly to binance.

[Anonymous No.20858667]

You can't cash out. Eg. Monero / XSN lightning + Raiden with TOR, since lightning is offchain you can't track it. If you cash out though they'll get suspicious. "WHERE DID YOU GET THAT MONEY GOI, OH VEY, PAY YOUR TAXES GOI.

[Anonymous No.20858705]

>>20858667
You literally get cash, not digital cash

There’s plenty of ways to do this

[Anonymous No.20858713]

>>20858705
Bitcoin atms are track no?

[Anonymous No.20858737]

>>20858713
P2P

Will Not be hard to get physical cash during the next bullrun

You just need to have a wide network to tap

[Anonymous No.20858756]

>>20858737
P2P seems too sus, I don't trust anybody. Is it easy to cash out in other countries?

[Anonymous No.20858770]

What do you guys think about giftcards? Isn't there an exemption for <10K day to day purchases now?

[Anonymous No.20858771]

>>20858407
LMFAO this.

[Anonymous No.20858792]

Transfer all your crypto XMR before cashing out..

ETH -> XMR wallet 1 -> XMR wallet 2 -> Neo Bank (fake id)

[Anonymous No.20858793]

>>20858756
P2P is fine

Do the transaction inside a bank for safety, no one is going to try anything in a bank

You are legally allowed to sell crypto for cash P2P. Not declaring your taxes is where it becomes illegal

[Anonymous No.20858802]

>>20858793
So you have to pay tax? OP doesn't want any tax, neither do I lol.

[Anonymous No.20858830]

Is there a tax penalty for paying cgt late if you forgot to pay in 2017-2019?

[Anonymous No.20858832]

>>20858793
>Inside a bank
Shit opsec anon

[Anonymous No.20858854]

>>20858667
I was paying my friend back

[Anonymous No.20858885]

>>20858830
Usually not if you're upfront...but hey you never know.

desu I'm probably just going to report as one chunk of CGT my overall gains. If they audit I'll just say "look here's how much I put in, here's how much I have now" - I can prove both of those things obviously and easily.

I'll grind teeth until they accept that. I feel they'll accept the method just on the basis of hours spent. I'm not doing fancy stuff like yield farming so it's just money in, asset gained, assets currently held.

[Anonymous No.20858961]

>>20858316
Looks like the best way is to get a credit card and use something like livingroomofsatoshi to pay it off.

[Anonymous No.20858994]

The ATO is not stupid and have teams of blockchain analysers running algos. The government coffers are emptying and if you think they're going to let you not pay your bills for the fun of it you are in for a big surprise.

Anyone saying they won't pay is larping. Even if you wash your money, they'll just deem you to have x amount of assets (probably much higher than you probably own) and you'll have to pay tax on the deemed amount. This will orce you to reveal your xmr so you can pay the lower tax bill.

Just pay and save yourself the prison time. You probably bought your crypto on neetbux/took out hecs/whatever. Making money on crypto and giving the country some of that money back is a good thing.

[Anonymous No.20859024]

>>20858994
Actually taxation of theft

[Anonymous No.20859053]

>>20858994
>the prison time
lmfao. this isn't fucking pakistan, they aren't sending anyone to jail for not paying their crypto taxes
you could literally set up a giant scheme to dodge millions in CGT and they still wouldn't send you to jail

[Anonymous No.20859056]

havent paid any crypto taxes never will and will never give a fuck

retiring in portugal

>>20858994
get a load of this ato shill hahaha. my hard drive got corrupted. i dont have ownership of my private keys. what now, cuck? throw me in prison for buying 10k of shitcoins and losing them? lmfao

[Anonymous No.20859102]

>>20858994
Get a hold of this faggot. Lmao

[Anonymous No.20859126]

>>20858994
Fuck you glowie. I hope you and your ATO boys burn

[Anonymous No.20859137]

>>20858667
Kek. This was my thoughts.
>we saw you send coins out goy. Now you’re getting coins back. Oi vey!

[Anonymous No.20859149]

>>20859102
Look I mean they're coming across a bit strong, but they are right at least in principle 100%. If you think they don't at least know about crypto and how to track wallets in principle...then you're deluding yourself. ScoMo has been spending spending spending and its the ATO's hobby to get every dollar they can out of Joe Average

[Anonymous No.20859167]

>>20858830
If it’s never been declared, you should be ok to never declare it until caught. Crypto is so new and complex that literally no one is being penalised right now. Not even audited yet.

[Anonymous No.20859187]

>>20859053
Unironically yes, people are jailed for not paying their deemed tax bill rather regularly. Most often it occurs in marriage breakdowns when people try hide their assets from their spouse.

>>20859056
>I'm a big boy and will still act tough when the AFP come knocking
good luck with that buddy. They're not stupid and even if you lost your private keys, you are liable to pay tax if they consider you a dickhead. They'll deem your assets at x amount, extrapolated from your last known balance, and then they'll charge you for contempt and obtaining financial advantage by deception.

But that won't actually need to happen because they'll knock on the door and have a rational explanation with you, you will wet your pants, and miraculously "find" your keys and pay the bill.

Reminder that the ATO budget for crypto tracing ALONE is $1 billion AUD.

[Anonymous No.20859203]

>>20858994
>that guilt complex
First off, there is NO JAIL TIME. There is jail time is you continuously mislead the government during an actual audit, AND get busted. Then it depends on a lot of factors.
Second, CGT events per trade is god damned theft.

[Anonymous No.20859206]

>>20859149
No one said they don't know about crypto. We getted fucked by the long arm of the law everyday so no I'm not paying these faggots.

[Anonymous No.20859212]

>>20858667
>Eg. Monero / XSN lightning + Raiden with TOR, since lightning is offchain you can't track it.

BASED

all you have to do then is never cash out in your cucked shithole, and cash out in one of the dozen crypto-expat friendly nations

[Anonymous No.20859242]

>>20859187
As an additional note though - if you do legitimately lose a wallet - take notes. You can claim it as a capital LOSS, offsetting gains.

Would love a source on that ATO budget for crypto tracing though. ty in advance for spoonfeed. (Found things like this https://www.ato.gov.au/Media-centre/Media-releases/ATO-receives-cryptocurrency-data-to-assist-tax-compliance/ - but no numbers)

[Anonymous No.20859245]

>>20859187
>AFP
who do you think you’re dealing with here? Drug runners and multimillion $ corps? Ain’t no AFP raiding a person for tax you fucking delusional uni student

[Anonymous No.20859254]

>>20859212
>dozen crypto-expat friendly nations
Such as? Are any of them safe?

[Anonymous No.20859258]

>>20859203
>no jail time
There is and it's 10 years maximum.
https://www.judicialcollege.vic.edu.au/eManuals/CCB/30707.htm

I agree with you that CGT per trade is bullshit, but you still want to pay rather than spend a stint in the clink picking up soap for 4-5 years.

[Anonymous No.20859265]

>>20859254
You can buy citizenship in Singapore for $300k and cash out there tax free.

[Anonymous No.20859305]

>>20859258
Dude please, don’t quote sentencing guidelines to me or I’ll put you in jail for three years for failing to wear a seatbelt

[Anonymous No.20859324]

>>20859265
How many citizenships can a person have at once?

[Anonymous No.20859327]

>>20859245
>raiding
The ATO themselves have enforcement powers but yes, as you are taxed under Commonwealth law it would either be ATO enforcement or the AFP, and not your average state policeman. Although the arrest warrant might be sent to the state police eventually, that would only occur if you refused to pay. Which, again, you will not do - when they get in touch with you, you will drop your tough guy act and pay.

>>20859242
Here is some shitty website but I'll have a look at the ATO budget now and get back to you. I imagine that was $1b over 4 years, so $250m per year for the previous budget.
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/09/30/1922813/0/en/ATO-Expecting-To-Collect-3-Billion-in-Tax-Fines-From-Australian-Cryptocurrency-Traders-This-Season.html

[Anonymous No.20859344]

>>20859324
At least three, I think. Singapore doesn't actually let locals have dual citizenship but as a foreign cashcow they'd love to have you.

[Anonymous No.20859357]

>>20859327
>tough guy
You ISTJs always think an individual standing his ground is a tough guy act. Ok whatever not important. I’m seeking information to empower me against the ATO. What you choose to do with your opinion on that isn’t my problem

[Anonymous No.20859380]

>>20858316
pay your fucking tax, op
contribute to this great nation

[Anonymous No.20859382]

>>20859305
>jail for failure to wear a seatbelt
It is a summary offence punishable by penalty units. No prison sentence can be imposed. If you're going to dismiss my points on no basis whatsoever, at least don't be completely retarded and resort to hyperbole.

No, the AFP doesn't raid houses over crypto transactions, and no, you won't get a prison sentence over it. Because unless you're the most retarded millionaire around, you will pay your tax bill like everybody else before you. People who think they are going to dodge taxes on an immutable, PUBLIC ledger are braindead.

[Anonymous No.20859408]

>>20859357
>I disagree with the law and therefore it doesn't apply to me
Have a great time in prison

[Anonymous No.20859438]

>>20859408
Has there been a single case of a crypto trader doing time in prison? A guy I knew who worked at an Aussie crypto exchange said he knew of a guy getting a $200k tax bill, but that was his horror story. I haven't heard of anyone doing time.

[Anonymous No.20859452]

>>20858316
Yes. There are multiple ways to avoid paying CGA on crypto gains in Australia. For example, sell your cryptocurrency for gold to a private gold seller.

"Wash" your crypto through monero, swap to another exchange, claim a capital gains loss saying you "lost" the crypto. Cash out that crypto anonymously at a public Bitcoin ATM (Hide your face).

There are other such ways, but I cbf to explain after just getting home from work.

[Anonymous No.20859471]

>>20859357
>You ISTJs always think an individual standing his ground is a tough guy act.

This. What a fucking world we live in where someone asking for a justification of tax owed is considered out of the ordinary/above and beyond.

The absolute state of Israelia.

[Anonymous No.20859473]

>>20859382
>>20859408
You are the least helpful person in the thread. Well done at regurgitating information from your accounting degree.

[Anonymous No.20859478]

>>20859452
Teach me sensei.

[Anonymous No.20859488]

>>20858994
Suck my dick, bitch. You aren't a fucking nickel out of me.

[Anonymous No.20859508]

>>20859408
m8 you have a completely whack idea of how the law works in practice

i've seen guys smuggling 2 ounces of meth, while out on parole, 20th offence
even they don't go to jail

they aren't sending anyone to jail for not declaring their bitcoin gains. at most the ato would fine you.

[Anonymous No.20859512]

>>20859471
It disgusts me that so many people here in Aus are hardwired To accept subservience to the state when it comes to finances.
>I allow the state to dictate my moral compass to me

[Anonymous No.20859529]

>>20859452
Tell us more. Can't let these fucking kike vampires in the tax department get our hard earned shekels.

[Anonymous No.20859555]

>>20859508
part 2.

also, you have to understand what the ato can and can't prove.
if you bought and held on an exchange 2 years then sold, then sure they have some evidence.
but if you bought btc and sent it away, you could say anything.
you lost it, gambled it away on bustabit, lost it in shitcoin trading, donated it to mumbambu
they can't prove shit

[Anonymous No.20859624]

>>20859478
>>20859529
> Part 1/X
Okay, here goes...
> i will explain how to stop those money hungry
> ATO bastards from getting their grubby hands on your profits.
> Some of the methods I describe here aren’t really viable
> I’ve just included them to show why they’re not viable and shouldn’t be used (or should only be used in specific circumstances).
> Current ATO Views on Cryptocurrency:
> The ATO currently views Cryptocurrencies as a Capital Gains Tax (CGT) Asset.
> This means when you sell or otherwise dispose of an asset (any cryptocurrency in any amount) it is considered a Capital Gains Tax (CGT) event.
> The definitions of CGT events are:
When you:
> sell or gift cryptocurrency
> trade or exchange cryptocurrency (including the disposal of one cryptocurrency for another cryptocurrency)
> convert cryptocurrency to fiat currency like Australian dollars, or
> use cryptocurrency to obtain goods or services.
> For every capital gains tax (CGT) event that happens to your assets (cryptocurrency) during the year, you need to work out your capital gain or loss.
> If you have both capital gains and capital losses, you also must work out your net capital gain or net capital loss for the year.
> If you dispose of one cryptocurrency to acquire another cryptocurrency, you dispose of one CGT asset and acquire another CGT asset.
> Because you receive property instead money in return for your cryptocurrency
> the market value of the cryptocurrency you receive needs to be accounted for in Australian dollars.
> example:
> On 5 July 2017, Katrina acquired 100 Coin A for $15,000.
> On 15 November 2017, through a reputable digital currency exchange, Katrina exchanged 20 of Coin A for 100 of Coin B.

fuck i really cbf to keep going with this

> Using the exchange rates on the reputable digital currency exchange at the time of the transaction, the market value of 100 Coin B was $6,000
> For the purposes of working out Katrina's capital gain...

cont?

[Anonymous No.20859628]

centrelink bogans think they are Christopher Skase now because they made 20k on LINK

[Anonymous No.20859640]

>>20858316
Just store it in your Sylo wallet

[Anonymous No.20859641]

>>20859438
No, because people pay their taxes. For all the internet tough guys ITT, they all pay when the bill comes because they're not stupid. People like >>20859452 don't understand how the tax system works and thinks that the ATO is a useless organisation without decades of experience tracking down tax fraud.

>>20859555
>evidentiary requirements
el oh el. They will deem your assets based on an extrapolated gain from your previous known balance. They don't actually have to prove your balance - they will say you have (your real balance^2) and then put the onus on you to prove you do NOT have that money.

>>20859508
Of course nobody goes to jail over this - THEY ALL PAY. You are no different.

[Anonymous No.20859677]

>>20859473
I'm being very helpful. The easiest way to avoid crypto taxes is to pay your crypto taxes. At least that way, you're only paying the mandated amount rather than the mandated amount + punitary fines

[Anonymous No.20859678]

>>20859624
I see why you can’t be fucked because youre have to go through basics that everyone here should already understand (it takes 20 minutes of reading). You should continue through The actual info and opinions on being caught out via ignoring these supposed CGT examples

[Anonymous No.20859689]

>>20859677
You ignored my question so fuck off back to working for your paymasters in Canberra.

[Anonymous No.20859699]

>>20859641
you don't get it... they can't prove you made any capital gain if you sent the coins away from where you bought them
anything could have happened to them from there and without evidence they can't prove shit

you are going on the assumption they can already prove the gain, which they can't

[Anonymous No.20859707]

>>20859641
Fuck giving my money to jews to they can waste it on niggers and arab and bogan trash and homos and fags and other degenerate shit.

[Anonymous No.20859709]

What we have here is a bunch of fucking retards who think they are smarter than the government.

Newsflash you're not. You think you will get away but I can fucking assure you that you are wrong. You have not got the brains considering you are a sole trader and not part of any criminal syndicate to wash your funds.

Anytime, any fucking time you dickheads used KYC at an Australian exchange or Coinbase they will have a record of it. its all but over.

Oh you lost your private keys or trades, they will then estimate how much tax you owe. They dont even need to be accurate.

Its your responsibility to monitor your trades failure to do so will result in fines or jail time.

Fucking children on here thinking their smarting than AUSTRAC who's existence is to monitor cross chain analysis of BTC to AUD (vice versa) for terrorism etc.

I went to tax consultant and using their bare bones cross chain analysis software found out things I forgotten about for coins or others exchanges.

You seriously think the recent news with being able to buy BTC at any Australia Post is not done without the ability to monitor the trades.

Anyone knows BTC and other crypto currencies are inherently easy to track if not now then later. Its immutable blockchain it will always be there.


Enjoy prison faggot.

[Anonymous No.20859714]

>>20859624
yes

[Anonymous No.20859733]

>>20859709
If you trade on layer 2 it's not public.

[Anonymous No.20859736]

>>20859624
Yeah cont, but maybe abridged version just including the actual methods of avoidance since of course if you hit every single topic you want to you'll be here for hours.

[Anonymous No.20859777]

>>20859689
>you ignored my question
What question? How to avoid paying your taxes on a public ledger that the ATO is actively monitoring? Sure, buy over the counter without KYC and sell without KYC. Which, by the way, they are also monitoring :^)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8322229/Woman-arrested-Burwood-Sydney-exchanging-cash-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-sydnicate.html

>>20859699
They don't have to prove shit. That is what le ebin neets making bank don't understand. The will DEEM your assets to be whatever they want, and the onus is on you to prove you don't own those assets. And if you even bother trying to lie, then you really will get a prison sentence. Perjury is 5 years and financial advantage by deception 10. And they really want a news story to distract from covid, so good luck being the test case for crypto washing.

[Anonymous No.20859804]

>>20859777
Congrats you quoted a news story on a drug ring. You’re legit fucked mate. Are you paid by Canberra? Be honest. I haven’t paid tax on crypto in four years.

[Anonymous No.20859833]

>>20859678
>>20859714
>>20859736

> but maybe abridged version

abridged version:

> Method for avoiding tax on cryptocurrency entirely – Use a foreign exchange:
> It’s possible to completely avoid any taxes on cryptocurrency if you use an exchange that is based in a foreign country
> that does not have any tax data sharing agreements with Australia.
> Australia has tax data sharing agreements with all Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries
> (34 countries which are listed here https://www.oecdwatch.org/oecd-guidelines/oecd )
> and all countries with Tax Information Exchange Agreements (TIEAs) (36 countries which are listed here https://treasury.gov.au/tax-treaties/tax-information-exchange-agreements/ )
> If you can find a country that:
> Isn’t on those lists.
> Has someone running an exchange that allows foreign nationals to start an account.
> Doesn’t have its own restrictive crypto laws and taxes.
> Then props to you – you’ve found something pretty rare.
> The only trouble now is cashing out in AUD.
> With this method the only way to profit from your gains would be to purchase goods and services with your cryptocurrency.

> Method for artificially manufacturing a net loss to offset your gains – A “wash sale”:
> You can sell all of your cryptocurrency near the end of financial year to claim a loss
> then buy it all back for a similar price next financial year.
> not going to give example, but
> Warning! This sort of thing is traditionally done with stocks.
> Unfortunately, as it’s quite an old method the ATO is great at detecting it
> even if you use more sophisticated methods like buying different cryptocurrencies than the original, spreading out the timeline of sale and buyback, etc. This method is not recommended.

to be cont

[Anonymous No.20859834]

Make an offshore company and cashout there

[Anonymous No.20859843]

>>20858579
>he actually thinks laws mean anything in 2020

[Anonymous No.20859873]

I can tell just by the writing style that the people who here including myself are advising anons to pay their taxes, actually have made a decent amount on crypto.

Anything meaningful amount of money, fucking anything will raise red flags with ATO.

You buy anything over $10,000 without any evidence gg youre ass is theres.

You can't buy anything over $10,000 with cash either, good fucking luck explaining this to the ATO how all of a sudden you bought an expensive good or judging by how you autistic cucks write you have never made anything significant.

[Anonymous No.20859914]

>>20859833
> Method for artificially manufacturing a net loss to offset your gains – Lost or Stolen Cryptocurrency:
> As explained above you may be able to claim a capital loss if you lose your cryptocurrency private key or your cryptocurrency is stolen.
> The evidence criteria here is quite stringent:
> when you acquired and lost the private key
> the wallet address that the private key relates to
> the cost you incurred to acquire the lost or stolen cryptocurrency
> the amount of cryptocurrency in the wallet at the time of loss of private key
> that the wallet was controlled by you (for example, transactions linked to your identity)
> that you are in possession of the hardware which stores the wallet
> transactions to the wallet from a digital currency exchange for which you hold a verified account or is linked to your identity.
> Legit Example:
> The exchange you have all of your cryptocurrency on is hacked and all coins are taken by the hackers. This is a clear-cut loss as the website will have enough information that the wallet belonged to you and that all cryptocurrency was taken.
> Legit example 2:
> You have your cryptocurrency in a software wallet on your PC. You also have your private key stored on the same machine (bad practice but it’s not the ATO’s job to educate you on good wallet security). One day you trip and pour coffee all over your machine, the hard drive fries and is not recoverable.
> Shady example:
> Combine the two examples above. You have a software wallet and private key stored on your PC. A hacker gains access to your machine and steals your crypto and transfers to their own wallet. In this instance you are the hacker and you’re just transferring it to another private wallet you own.

cont

[Anonymous No.20859915]

>>20859834

[Anonymous No.20859959]

>>20859914
> Warning! I’m guessing the ATO will probably monitor the “hackers” wallet to see whether you’re using it as your own. With this method you should only use crypto in this wallet for goods and services that aren’t traceable to you. But you could withdraw cash from a cryptocurrency ATM – not sure how risky this one is.
> In all the examples above you can claim a capital loss which you can use to offset any capital gain in the current or next financial year.

> Method for avoiding tax on cryptocurrency entirely – Untraceable/Privacy focused cryptocurrencies:
> Both Dash and Monero appear to employee a sort of “wallet mixing” where denominations or portions of the coins in your wallet are mixed with other users’ wallets and paid back to themselves in the same amount.
> This mixing is repeated (between 1 and 16 times in the case of Dash) to fully obscure the source of the funds.
> Monero has this mixing happen by default for all transactions while for Dash it is optional while conducting a transaction or mixing in-wallet.
> Where with Bitcoin or other non-privacy focused cryptocurrencies the ATO could, theoretically track payments made from your BTC address to any other address, bank account, bitcoin ATM or while purchasing goods and services they cannot track payments made with Dash (using PrivateSend) or Monero.
> As explained above anything on an Exchange can be tracked by the ATO including Monero and Dash.
> To avoid the ATO seeing that you’re cashing out or spending your crypto profits you’d have to follow these steps:
> Convert your cryptocurrency (BTC, ETH, etc.) to Monero or Dash on the exchange.
> Transfer your Monero or Dash on the exchange to your Monero wallet or Dash Core Wallet.
> If using Dash mix the current coins in your wallet.
> Spend Dash or Monero on goods and services or withdraw cash from an cryptocurrency ATM that doesn’t require identification.

[Anonymous No.20859980]

>>20859959

> sources
> Australian Taxation Office (2018, 8th November). Transacting with cryptocurrency. Retrieved from https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-Australia---specifically-bitcoin/?anchor=Transactingwithcryptocurrency#Transactingwithcryptocurrency
u/dmarthick (2018, April). Australian Tax Law and Crypto. Retrieved from https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/874que/australian_tax_law_and_crypto/
Australian Taxation Office (2018, 15th June). Capital gains tax. Retrieved from https://www.ato.gov.au/general/capital-gains-tax/
Australian Taxation Office (2018, 15th August). Working out your capital gain or loss. Retrieved from https://www.ato.gov.au/general/capital-gains-tax/working-out-your-capital-gain-or-loss/
Jack Baldwin (2018, 19th July). How NOT to do your crypto tax in Australia. Retrieved from https://medium.com/everycapital/how-not-to-do-your-crypto-tax-in-australia-35509499e021
Australian Taxation Office (2018, 7th November). Working out your net capital gain or loss. Retrieved from https://www.ato.gov.au/general/capital-gains-tax/working-out-your-capital-gain-or-loss/working-out-your-net-capital-gain-or-loss/
OECD Watch (date unknown). OECD. Retrieved from https://www.oecdwatch.org/oecd-guidelines/oecd
Australian Treasury (date unknown). Tax Information Exchange Agreements. Retrieved from https://treasury.gov.au/tax-treaties/tax-information-exchange-agreements/
Australian Taxation Office (2019, 31st January). Tax information exchange agreements – overview. Retrieved from
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/International-tax-agreements/In-detail/Tax-information-exchange-agreements-(TIEA)/Tax-information-exchange-agreements---overview/
Australian Taxation Office (2008, 18th April). TA 2008/7. Retrieved from https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=TPA/TA20087/NAT/ATO/00001
Australian Taxation Office (2018, 29th June). Involuntary disposal of a CGT asset.

[Anonymous No.20859985]

>>20859959
> Spend Dash or Monero on goods and services or withdraw cash from an cryptocurrency ATM that doesn’t require identification.

Great write up mate, however there is no such ATM offering no ID services. Regulations require KYC.

[Anonymous No.20860010]

>>20859985
Unfortunately the only options seem to be, wait for tax laws to change or go to another country.

[Anonymous No.20860015]

>>20860000

[Anonymous No.20860025]

What about crypto casino how does that factor into a fucken taxable event?
What about when I get fucked by Gas fees on the eth network like last week?
Seriously the laws around crypto are so rushed its painful to read? Atleast allow me to pay in crypto so I can send them 50k nigger coin for trying to fuck me the entire time.

[Anonymous No.20860089]

>>20859959
Comment on this, what about offshore Tax-haven crypto only gambling sites for washing?

[Anonymous No.20860211]

koinly.io is how you calculate your capital gains/losses. took me a few days to import 3 years of trading shit coins. TAKE NOTE, i had to manually ask for my trading history from the chink exchanges as API sync is fucking inaccurate and downloading shit from their website sucks. wallets can be synced no problems. im doing my taxes now so that i can live off my gains and put a deposit on a house. use my link https://koinly.io?via=14114A6E

[Anonymous No.20860275]

>>20860211
Can’t you just declare slightly more gains than you’ve actually made in order to be sure that you’re not declaring less and in order to avoid going through this hustle? For example, you know that you’ve had capital gains of approximate value of $200k. You declare gains of $210k and end of story.

[Anonymous No.20860307]

>>20860275
my accountant told me that it has to be verified by a third party. Koinly caculates all that data for you if you want to cash out legit.

[Anonymous No.20860316]

>>20860275
The ATO can see if you're actually trying to make an effort by reconciling your crypto they wont go down on you as hard as someone who is blatantly trying to not pay tax or lying.

[Anonymous No.20860322]

>>20860307
Also you get $20 off if you use my link https://koinly.io?via=14114A6E

[Anonymous No.20860360]

>>20860316
exactly!!!! the full tax report looks fucking legit. each FY of my report is like 50-70 pages. I have all the manual excel sheets if they want to see the raw data with transaction hashes and everything on a wallet can be verified on the blockchain. I thought this was an impossible task until I started messing around with Koinly

[Anonymous No.20860366]

>>20860322
>shills for the ATO
>referral link to some shitty app.
colour me surprised.

[Anonymous No.20860376]

>>20860316
What I’m asking is why can’t I just adopt this rough approach if I end up paying a bit more tax than what i would have if i did it properly? If the ATO wants to count every cent they can ask for my transaction statements, i can provide them and they spend the time to go through them only to find out that i am actually liable for less tax.

[Anonymous No.20860402]

>>20858316
Read this https://nomoretax.eu/bitcoin-tax-haven-germany/

Basically, after holding for 1 year you pay 0 tax in germany. All you need is be a resident there (have a place you are renting and living in). No citizenship required just a visa to stay there for that long. Get a visa by signing up to some university there or getting a job or pay someone with citizenship to temporeraly marry you

[Anonymous No.20860409]

>>20860376
They can*

[Anonymous No.20860410]

If you make bank on crypto why would you not just pay an accountant and sleep easy, the ATO has just enough budget to fuck you over

[Anonymous No.20860457]

>>20860366
I saw that no one in this thread had any good options of cashing out so am just giving you a legal way of doing so. plus I get small kick backs. win-win situation for all.

[Anonymous No.20860459]

does anybody know when the ato ruled crypto to crypto transfers a taxable event?

[Anonymous No.20860471]

>>20858316
Can I declare my retarded moves as losses?

[Anonymous No.20860492]

>>20860459
At least 2 years ago (2018).

[Anonymous No.20860500]

>>20860376
Will you be doing this for all of your trades? I had thousands of trades.

[Anonymous No.20860518]

>>20858350
Thats interesting Anon. I feel for you. I also will need to do this all the way back from 2011 (though between 2014 and 2017 there is nearly zero activity).
How are you forced to disclose? Surely they cannot tell a lot except for what you tell them?
From my understanding every transaction is a taxable event... this is a huge headache.
>>20858407
Is this correct Anon? Even a transfer wallet to wallet is a taxable event? How can they know your wallet is yours and not a payment to say a webcam whore or something?
I have no intention to avoid paying dues but i do wish to avid headaches.

[Anonymous No.20860521]

>>20860410
you could pay a lot for an accountant. they will charge you thousands to just import wallets and exchange data in to a program like koinly

[Anonymous No.20860529]

>>20858466
Same... starting to shit bricks...

[Anonymous No.20860536]

>>20860471
if they count your gains as taxable then yes you can definitely claim your retarded moves as losses.

[Anonymous No.20860539]

>>20860500
I thought what they care about is the sum of capital gains/losses one makes in a year so that they can asses the person’s tax liability (if any).

[Anonymous No.20860543]

>>20860518
koinly doesnt generate a capital gains/loss when transferring between my wallets.

[Anonymous No.20860547]

>>20858467
This is true. Thank goodness for BTC ATMs despite their large commissions. BUt in 2018 I must have emptied out nearly every ATM in the city.

[Anonymous No.20860578]

Any of you lads done the my bitcoin academy course?

[Anonymous No.20860580]

>>20860539
yes you will have to calculate gains / losses for all trades for the year and report the net gains. if you over estimate for thousands of trades you will get fucked

[Anonymous No.20860588]

>>20858579
This is what I am hoping for. I hope to declare all payments on Australian exchanges and every movement off exchanges itno a wallet as a paymetn to 'Cam whore A'- who has clearly done very well from exploiting my weakness for her flesh. (she takes such a broad variety of currencies!).

[Anonymous No.20860591]

>>20860492
so 2017 transactions don't fall under this rule?

[Anonymous No.20860615]

>>20858667
Please explain this step with detail as if you were talking to a 6 year old with down syndrome , many thanks Anon.

[Anonymous No.20860648]

>>20860580
But you always know (at least I do) approximately how much gains you’ve made. You just overestimate the net gains slightly in order to be safe that your not declaring less which I assume is a no no, and then you go your merry way. Of course it is all relevant to the amounts we’re talking about. I am talking about a 5% overestimate on 200k profits.

[Anonymous No.20860661]

>>20860615
>Look at up Monero works
>Wait for XSN DEX to release with Raiden
>Lightning network/ Raiden is off chain so transactions aren't recorded and are private
>Profit
Hiding you funds is easy, you literally cannot cash out without raising suspicion. As far a I know, all bitcoin/cash atms require KYC.

If you want to cash out with no tax you need to move country.

[Anonymous No.20860663]

>>20860591
I said at least. I am not sure mate, the ruling might have been there since 2016. You need to ask a professional.

[Anonymous No.20860679]

>>20860648
You’re*

[Anonymous No.20860692]

>>20858994
I think you are correct Anon. However if I have paid ample amounts to 'Cam whore A' ... they have to show I am lying and this is impossible. Spending crypto is not a taxable event as I understand it.

[Anonymous No.20860712]

>>20860692
No, if anything that would also make the acquisition of crypto for personal use a non-taxable offence.

[Anonymous No.20860720]

What circumstances is it possible to owe more tax than what your assets are worth? I kept hearing all of the horror stories about it in 2018 but never understood why it was happening

[Anonymous No.20860721]

>>20859056
This is also true.. I can recall many of my private keys.... Just like XMR Fluffy Pony... lost his keys on a shipwreck...
What can they possibly do to say this is not true? (except monitor those wallets and try to see if you access the funds).

[Anonymous No.20860722]

>>20860591
2017 transactions do.

[Anonymous No.20860725]

>>20860712
Event* lol

[Anonymous No.20860744]

>>20860692
Correct its not, however you must show them you bought the crypto and disposed of it in a timely manner and not use it as a means for gain.

I asked this very question to a crypto tax consultant.

[Anonymous No.20860752]

sure, i guess it depends if you want to pay the extra tax for those overestimated gains

[Anonymous No.20860777]

>>20858316
How would the taxes work if I were moving from Aus to the U.S or the U.K? If I purchase them all while living in Aus and don't touch them for years (for example, link for 2 years) and never buy or sell anything, finally make it and move to another country... I know that I'll be filing my taxes early before I leave with what I cash out, but what happens to people who don't? Do they get raped at the far end?

[Anonymous No.20860785]

>>20860721
lol like every second person will be saying this

[Anonymous No.20860792]

>>20860752
The liability arising from raising my taxable income by 10k more than it is would cost way less than hiring an accountant to calculate everything accurately.

[Anonymous No.20860828]

how are australian posters so based lads? based poomunity

[Anonymous No.20860861]

>>20860792
it cost me a bit over 100 bucks to do it through koinly and now the tax burden is now off my shoulders

[Anonymous No.20860862]

>>20860518
>Is this correct Anon? Even a transfer wallet to wallet is a taxable event? How can they know your wallet is yours and not a payment to say a webcam whore or something?
I have no intention to avoid paying dues but i do wish to avid headaches.

You bought chainlink at 20c in 2017-2018, you transfer the chainlink to another wallets, this is "not" taxable. 2020 you read about ledger privacy breach u got scared because u think some mafia is going after u, so you decided you want to break up the chainlink and transfer them into a paper wallets but u dont want to leave trail so u transfer to binance in order to transfer out. Chainlink is now $7.8 the moment u transfer to binance is taxable.

[Anonymous No.20860895]

>>20860862
wrong. how can you calculate a capital gain/loss by simply transferring to an exchange. it is when you make a transaction with that link with something else which generates a capital gain/loss

[Anonymous No.20860902]

Gobermant is nva Eva getting my linkies

[Anonymous No.20860910]

>>20860895
mate i hoping some rich smart dude to fight ato here, you read it up on the forum it fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.20860934]

>>20860712
Damn Cam whores.... maybe one day she will give it back to me... I can only hope. I love her.

[Anonymous No.20860969]

>>20860785
does not mean its not true, A lot of people obviously lose their keys.

[Anonymous No.20861002]

We really need to push in forums and media wherever we can for tax breaks due to corona, Breaks for small investors..

[Anonymous No.20861005]

>>20860969
Yea but i imagine you would have to do stat decs about losing the keys, and if they eventually find out you lied, you’d be fucked x100.

[Anonymous No.20861012]

>>20860969
true but then you will have to sell P2P like a drug dealer if you want to cash out.

[Anonymous No.20861031]

>>20859641

>prove you do not have the money

Pockets empty bro

[Anonymous No.20861052]

>>20860777
Checked, I want to know this too. US long term capital gains rates are a little bit better than AU, but on a couple million that's a lot.

[Anonymous No.20861215]

>>20858316
this thread was created by the ATO or an agency that relates to the ATO
there will be more threads like these in the future warning us to pay our taxes
why?
because a lot of us holding LINK are going to be fucking rich as pharaohs and the gooberment wants their goddamn cut and you better believe you will be waterboarded at christmas island if you don't cooperate

[Anonymous No.20861306]

>>20860720
Crypto to crypto is taxed. Trade a lot make huge gains. Hodl. All comes crashing down. Your shitcoins are worth nothing. Comgrats you owe lots of tax.

[Anonymous No.20861308]

I'm hoping that by the time I'll need to cash out if ever there will be a really easy crypto tax website that just does it for you. I know there are some now but I think they'll eventually make it even easier the more normies get a hold of crypto.

[Anonymous No.20861429]

>>20861215
fucking good let them read this shit so they make thing less complicated, not everyone is trying to avoid but some shit just doesnt make sense.

[Anonymous No.20861444]

>>20859265
Interesting can you share a link

[Anonymous No.20861483]

>>20861306
this is fucking terrifying

[Anonymous No.20861539]

>>20861483
Yup. Absolute fucking scam from the govt. You put $10k into crypto A, it moons to $400k, you transfer from crypto A to B, it crashes to $10k, you withdraw the $10k.
And you owe takes on $400k. What a crock of shit.

[Anonymous No.20861599]

>>20861539
not true. from $10k to $400k you have a $390k gain. if you withdraw the $10k after the catastrophe, then you also have $390k loss, they balance out.

[Anonymous No.20861633]

>>20859980
Thanks anon, you've done us all a great service

[Anonymous No.20861640]

>>20861599
you profit 400k on the 30/6, you then traded to B it crash and u cashed out on the 1/7. Congrat u still have to pay that 400k and need to wait next year to claim the loss.

[Anonymous No.20861656]

>>20861306
>>20861539

Lmao not how it works. Yes you cop a gain, but you also cop a loss which even each other out.

imo the original theory of just taking the overall picture is at least not super inaccurate. Because if you put in $100k, Make $100k off a trade, then lose $50k on another trade - it's not going to be inaccurate to say that you made $50k capital gains. The ATO REALLY wants that full transaction list but you won't be underpaying at least.

[Anonymous No.20861669]

>>20861640
yes, but that's a very specific scenario and I'm sure that if those events are that close you can request from the ATO to take the circumstances into consideration.

[Anonymous No.20861678]

>>20861640
OK yes this is true though. You can get massively dicked by financial years.

[Anonymous No.20861687]

>>20858316
buy lots of heavy weapons and when the tax agents come start a war

[GL No.20861712]

>>20858316
This is a funny thread
/MeQpEK

I won't reveal my tricks here. Check the discord. Oh fuck jannies as well.

[Anonymous No.20861719]

>>20861712
GLOWING

[Anonymous No.20861761]

>>20858524
nice. i lost my hardware wallets in a boating accident. no obligations now, right?

[Anonymous No.20861797]

>>20861687
you are forgetting the country these hypotheticals take part in.

>For we are young and free

[Anonymous No.20861834]

>>20861761
you'll have to give them evidence of ownership of the wallet. and consequently, you wouldn't be able to move the crypto again in Australia any time soon.

[Anonymous No.20861844]

>>20861834
i forgot the addresses and they're only stored on the wallets thou

[GL No.20861882]

>>20861719
If only he knew the info inside.. You're not a smart goy are you

[Anonymous No.20861891]

Can someone tell me how does it work if Im holding a uniswap coin for 12 months? how do you prove its been a 12 month investment for the gst discount?

[Anonymous No.20861904]

apparently buying shit for crypto is tax free? so just never sell, but buy stuff for crypto. ez.

[Anonymous No.20861918]

>>20861844
I guess it depends on whether you can claim ownership of wallet that you want declared lost.

Also, they probably can trace the address of your holding wallet by starting from your original purchase of crypto for fiat. Then you would have to try and make it disappear through monero, etc. transactions that would seem so suspicious, that the ATO would refuse to accept your declaration in the first place.

[Anonymous No.20861974]

>>20861918
These cunts have quite a wide discretion anon.

[Anonymous No.20861976]

>>20861918
b-but what if my original purchase was on intersango then my 2nd one was on mtgox?

[Anonymous No.20861993]

>>20861976
kek.

[Anonymous No.20862031]

>>20859327
Look at this glowing nigger.

[Anonymous No.20862149]

>>20861005
Thats if I lied. I genuinely have a bad memory.

[Anonymous No.20862216]

>>20861429
This is it. This is my main issue. If they made it easy.. ie: you started with X and ended up with Y now you owe Z.. easy... but all these tax on each transaction and movement and how long you hold it for and where you got it and where it was sent from is such weighty BS. It just encourages people to not disclose to avoid the trauma.

[Anonymous No.20862253]

Doesn't matter when your trading account is - since 2017 :/ ((((they)))) don't care

[Anonymous No.20862287]

>>20861904
Speaking of buying shit for crypto;
Is there anywhere I can sell things for crypto? BTC BCH XMR ETH? Like a bitcoin ebay?
I have seen a few but there was zero traffic.
Any tips? or links?
(great thread btw even from the spooks who started it, i need educating in this area).

[Anonymous No.20862338]

>>20862287
That would be silk road fren

[Anonymous No.20862362]

>>20862338
haha BMR nd SR etc farmers markets you cant really sell legit merch and put your name to it....

[Anonymous No.20862379]

I got hacked.

Report it as a capital loss

[Anonymous No.20862571]

>>20860459
yeah right after the fucking market crashed in 2018

[Anonymous No.20862739]

Brainlet here. What's the point of reporting a net crypto loss for a financial year? It's not like you can claim it as a deduction, right?

[Anonymous No.20862850]

>>20862739
Save up the loss to offset a capital gain in a future year.

[Anonymous No.20863276]

ato jews aren't getting a cent, I will move to Malta and revoke my citizenship if necessary

[Anonymous No.20863345]

>>20861429
Seconded. Glowniggers, make some up to date laws that make sense, not this retard level second hand American bullshit, and most of us will play along happily. Just do a Singapore and make 300k the ceiling.. that'd be nice

[Anonymous No.20863431]

I have EU citizenship

I don't give a fuck if I never come back to Australia if it means I don't give ato a single dollar

[Anonymous No.20863487]

>>20863431
Same. I'll use my EU passport and fuck off to Europe before working some shit out in non-EU Switzerland if I have to.

[Anonymous No.20863515]

>>20863431
Same here
I actually bought all my crypto in EU too so it's got nothing to do with aus as far as I'm concerned

[Anonymous No.20864141]

This is my plan.

I have my wallet history which shows that I've been holding my coins for 3+ years. This means I qualify for CGT 12 month discount.

There is no way I'm going to be able to accurately fond my cost basis so I'm going to bite the bullet and set it as 0.

This way, I'll pay roughly 40% tax on 50% of the total profit. Meaning tax man only takes 20% of my total profit.

Not too bad.

[Anonymous No.20864319]

>>20860547
>>>20858467
any btc atms left? there isn't a good resource for them, auscoin was great

[Anonymous No.20864325]

>>20858316
Sorry officer, I lost all my crypto in a boating accident.

[Anonymous No.20864414]

What if I mine ETH and transfer it to coinbase. Do I pay CGT for the transfer from my mining wallet to my coinbase wallet?

[Anonymous No.20864455]

>>20860211
This app is actually good. Imported binance, bittrex, coinbase so far with no major issues. There's 4 exchanges I'm locked out of that I'll have to piss about trying to get info from, but once they're sweet it should be all in order.

[Anonymous No.20864507]

>>20864141
Fuck waiting 1 year.

[Anonymous No.20864620]

How much tax does one need to pay on this shit?

I've put down 10k on Bancor, it's now 13,500-14,000.

[Anonymous No.20865412]

>>20864507
Ask me how I know you bought at 8 dollars usd

[Anonymous No.20865505]

>>20860862
>>20860910
Bullshit. Post source.

[Anonymous No.20866368]

Dual citizenship generally allows you to select which nation you pay taxes to.

[Anonymous No.20866723]

>>20866368
it's usually more about residency. only the US taxes people that live abroad. but pretty much every country taxes pretty much every person that spends the majority of the tax year on its land.

[Anonymous No.20866981]

>>20863487
if you have eu passport, you can literally just spend 6 months (of the tax year, which there lasts from jan1. to dec31) in malta, and pay 0% tax after any income you do not remit to malta. you can sell your crypto and buy it back, reacquiring it at current prices, then not be obliged to pay taxes back in your country less for the gains they earned you afterwards.
you just need to pay at least 5,000 eur in taxes in malta. then on your tax returns just check in the field "my income abroad not remitted to malta exceeded 35,000 eur". that's it, no need to go into details kek

[Anonymous No.20867112]

>>20865505
https://community.ato.gov.au/t5/Cryptocurrency/Tax-implications-on-lending-Bitcoin/td-p/25488

[Anonymous No.20867209]

>>20865505
in other one sending to aave triggers it. I hope this will be made aware you satoshi, and hopefully enough people to tell these cunts to fuck off.

[Anonymous No.20867568]

>>20867112
top fucking kek these guys can't possibly get anymore cucked

[Anonymous No.20867761]

>>20859473
He's right though lol

[Anonymous No.20867795]

>>20867568
yea but it also open a loop hole, transfer out then when the price drop again transfer back in. Creating a loop of loss.