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18631661 No.18631661 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

What is wrong exactly with cheaper oil? Why do we need to prop up oil futures and protect jobs produce something that is already on a boat headed over to us for near 0 cost?

We literally turn these ships around just so a small minority of people can do busy work instead of being retrained to do something actually productive?

This broken window economy shit pisses me off so much.

>> No.18631701

>>18631661
Ted Cruz is such a sycophant moron it honestly amazes me that anyone ever supported that idiot.

>> No.18631703

>>18631661
Anon, EVERYONE is doing busy work.

>> No.18631705

>>18631661
it cuts our ability to produce, and it takes time to regain that ability

oil doesn't have an on/off switch, it takes years to ramp up production.

no big deal if we can buy from other countries, but if we get in a war or something we NEED our oil now.

this is a strategic industry, in that it's vital to national strategy more than strictly your personal wellbeing.

>> No.18631730

>>18631705
>socialized loses and private gains good
Honestly neck yourself. Although I doubt you can do that with a jelly fish spin.

>> No.18631731

even if the tankers are on their way to the US that doesn't mean anyone has to buy it.. if it's already paid for then nothing will change

>> No.18631736

>>18631661
cheap oil means domestic production collapses which mean the energy independence we've built over the past decade or so disappears. it's a national security risk.

>> No.18631737

>>18631701
>look mom, I learned a new word!

>> No.18631745

>>18631730
not about money

it's about our readiness to stomp your 3rd world toilet into the ground if you get uppity

>> No.18631767

>>18631745
It's so not about money that taxpayers are on the hook for any cost but none of the profit right

>> No.18631795

>>18631767
exactly

how much profit do you make from the military?

an intelligent investor understands that they make $0 off the military but without it they wouldn't have any gains at all

>> No.18631806

>>18631736
>energy independence
If it can collapse that way it's purely illusionary.

>> No.18631889

>>18631806
we can force them to open up if we have to, the constitution allows it and we've done it before.

but we also learned it's much easier and faster to just not let them collapse in the first place. Same deal with farmers, jet manufacturers, miners, and a pile of other strategic industries.

>> No.18631896

>>18631705
>>18631745

That's never an issue unless we are literally at war with every country on earth, including Canada, Mexico, Norway, etc. Even so, we could last on oil reserves for months until production is ramped up. It doesn't take years to ramp up with just some basic infrastructure to maintain.

US can never compete with Saudis and Russia on oil long term. The US will have to prop up this multi-trillion industry indefinitely for no economic or security benefit.

>> No.18631919

>>18631896
you may be right, we haven't had a world war since atomic bombs changed the game.

but less than 100 years ago you were dead wrong.

>> No.18631938

>>18631889
IE it's all fake

>> No.18631942

>REEEEE CANCEL THE FREE MARKET WE'RE LOSING YET ANOTHER TRADE WAR!!!

>> No.18631966

>>18631938
the delays in re-starting an industry vs the cost of maintaining it aren't fake

the money doing the maintaining is fake. The work is fake. But the readiness isn't.

>> No.18631978

>>18631736

>Saudi Arabia and Russia decide to drive down the price of oil
>We buy it and store it everywhere
>We now have enough oil, at the surface, to sustain us for a long time
>And when we run out of that oil, we can always start fracking again
>We are now energy independent

>> No.18631992

>>18631919

What you are describing though is an event that will never happen. US being at war with every major oil producer on earth, and not being able to do anything to ramp up domestic production for the 6 months or so we can last on the reserves.

>> No.18632006

>>18631966
>The work is fake. But the readiness isn't.
Do you also eat eggs raw when trying to bake a cake? That's your readiness argument in a nutshell.

>> No.18632009

>>18631661
Cringe, ted

>> No.18632022

>>18631978
>>We now have enough oil, at the surface, to sustain us for a long time
we pump it into empty salt mines and old oil wells

we have enough to keep us going for 6-8 months at regular levels or a couple months at war. Storage capacity for oil simply isn't that large. Which is why the price plummeted in the first place. If we could store 20 years worth of oil the price never would've dropped.

>> No.18632038

>>18631992
>What you are describing though is an event that will never happen
it's extremely unlikely, just like a school is extremely unlikely to burn down. But schools still do fire drills and the US still subsidizes strategic industries.

>> No.18632067

>>18632006
>That's your readiness argument in a nutshell.
except keeping shale oil afloat doesn't have the potential to harm the US and I don't have an infinite appetite for eggs.

>> No.18632085

>>18631737
Yea for real. That made no sense in this context

>> No.18632094

>>18632022

But, with oil prices historically low, is there not an incentive right now for oil companies to scramble to increase their storage capacity? Or is crude oil perishable in some way?

>> No.18632122
File: 21 KB, 211x220, 1495648832333.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18632122

>countries would never leverage a monopoly on oil to control US politics

>> No.18632124
File: 7 KB, 188x200, Duck and cover point.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18632124

>>18631661
The problem is that millions of jobs are tied up in the oil industry now that would need time to transition into non-oil jobs. Giving them the boot all at once doesn't give them enough time to be absorbed back into the economy and compounds upon the unemployment issues that are already mounting from other sectors. You'd need to lower the price of oil gradually to allow for a smooth transition, not just dump it all at once.

>> No.18632144

>>18632038

subsidizing is one thing. hopelessly trying to prop up the price of some commodity to keep busy workers busy is another.

>> No.18632164

>>18632094
>is there not an incentive right now for oil companies to scramble to increase their storage capacity?
absolutely!

it's impossible, but if you can figure out how to do it you'll make trillions.

>> No.18632172

>>18632067
>except keeping shale oil afloat doesn't have the potential to harm the US
Magical money tree argument

>> No.18632181

>>18632144
I think they're the same thing in a pretend capitalist paradigm. To do otherwise is socialism and you know the GOP won't vote for that.

>> No.18632202

>>18632172
>Magical money tree argument
yes!

we're there though, in case you didn't notice. I'm making more magic money than I ever did working

>> No.18632215

>>18632202
Might as well say capitalism is dead then

>> No.18632236

>>18632215
for the moment it is

but we built up the reserves to fund this death by being capitalists, so we'll go back to it when we can

>> No.18632266

>>18632236
Nah the appetite isn't there

>> No.18632283

>>18632215
the actual danger is that this 'death' will go on too long and it will actually die.

this is something trump and the gop are acutely aware of. That's why they're rushing to resuscitate the economy even before the threat is gone.

>> No.18632294
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18632294

>>18632164

>Build more of these in Shithole, Texas
>Buy a bunch of chemical totes, fill with oil
>Buy a bunch of liquid tractor trailers, fill with oil

Surely somebody has thought of this.

>> No.18632303

>>18632294
>just spend hundreds of millions on tanks for an oil glut that will last a year lmao

>> No.18632304

>>18632266
>Nah the appetite isn't there
not in younger generations, but there's a bias online of younger voices. Most of the US is firmly capitalist because most of the US is getting rich off it.

younger americans are always socialist because they feel excluded. and they are excluded. But eventually they either starve to death or get in the game and start winning.

>> No.18632320

>>18632294
You'd have to make them square, and you've have to make them several hundred feet tall, and you'd have to cover the entire state of texas with them to get more than a year of storage.

>> No.18632321
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18632321

>>18631661
Oil production was probably one of the only things we really did, and we just got priced out by a collapsed soviet union and a bunch of desert-dwellers.

Coupled with the lowest oil demand and a massive oversupply of oil, we'll be sitting on a bunch of brown for longer than companies can remain solvent.
And oil demand will only keep getting lower as the coronavirus continues to play out on a global scale. Plus we're probably going into a new Era of Isolationism so trade will be down which means the demand for Oil will be even less seeing as how there'll be less demand for cargo ship usage.
Plus the Cruise ships are gonna take a fat shit, so even less demand for oil.
And the Airlines will have difficulty remaining solvent, so even less.
And no one is buying a car or driving right now so the Automotive industry is in some deep water, which means less demand well.

We're so up to our eyeballs in oil that our Oil industry will have nothing to do but to twiddle their thumbs for, honestly, maybe a year.
And we have so little demand for essentially everything we have that there is no point pretending.

So we'll have another massive layoff of oil employees. which'll add to the amount of "please dont loot" checks america will have to cut.
And we're going to exhaust everyone's unemployment money that was most likely spent on some other governmental stupid bullshit that's taking a big hit too.

Plus Russia and Saudi Arabia are blowing their own feet off to spite one another, so we're all going to collectively take one fat shit and then wither away.

At least that's my layman interpretation.

>> No.18632345

>>18632304
Young americans are in the enviable position where they've gone hungry for so long that they can easily go without for longer than the system. They have both the patience and experience something which as can be evidenced by your post the US economy has neither. The genie has been let out of the bottle so to speak. I think capitalism is effectively done for.

>> No.18632389

>>18632320

Alright so we'll just cover a smaller state like Delaware.

>> No.18632410

>>18632321
I work in boat manufacturing. The government has so much red tape and stupid fucking regulations, it's a wonder anyone builds anything here anymore.

just wait until they slam us with some emergency OSHA-covid regulations because of that pork plant in the middle of fucking nowhere got the coof

>> No.18632476

>>18632345
younger generations hunger was paid for entirely by their parents.

my kid has been broke for 20 years but if it wasn't for me paying to house and feed him he'd be dead, not broke.

millennials and zoomers think they come from some hard economic standpoint, and in some ways you do, but not the ways you imagine. We, your parents, paid to keep you alive. Which made you communists. But if you survive it won't be on your parent's dime, we're going to die and leave you nothing soon.

>>18632389
lol, less time bought

>> No.18632494

>>18632476
Dumb boomers never learn.

>> No.18632500

there is nothing productive
we passed the point where a minority was providing all our basic needs and entertainment long ago, and the busy-work industry has been growing ever since

>> No.18632507

>>18631661
Sham economy. JIT was the biggest mistake mankind ever made.

>> No.18632508
File: 18 KB, 509x411, 1587422206620.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18632508

>>18632410
This too.

The government over-regulated our businesses to a degree of toxicity that anyone with a dream and a fat wad of cash in their pocket would rather have a 9 year old foreigner build our shit than deal with an American and the myriad of hoops they would have to jump through to employ them.

Plus our ever increasing minimum-wage essentially prices out every american from doing anything besides work as a waiter, or pursue a expensive education that doesn't guarantee anything besides a paper that says "you smart". And any company that DOES operate on home turf would rather employ an Indian who fought tooth and nail for his education to come over and work for less than the average white-collar Joe.

Our government over the years has really boxed us into a fucking mess, now.
I wish we were living back in the neolithic.

>> No.18632512

>>18632494
we do

our problem is that EVERYONE tried the same cheats at the same time

>> No.18632536

>>18632508
that's not an accident

we don't want you making unsafe products, and you can't afford to make safe products at legal US wages. So either you make deadly products or illegal wages or we stop you.

>> No.18633887

>>18632536
Can’t wait to trump declares the job creating companies protected from any liabilities for resuming business during the pandemic.

Market gonna keep squeezing higher on the (broken)backs of the poor.

>> No.18633961

rouchneckes truly are the waiters of the oil world

entitled little do-nothing servant bitches

>> No.18634049

>>18631705

>continue to allow saudi’s to send us their oil
>continue to pump our own oil
>have saudis deplete any on hand amount they have
>claim the saudi oil tanked our economy
>use it as means for war

>> No.18634081

>>18631661
Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned but there's no where to store it. That's why the price of oil hit negative numbers, that's why oil tanker companies are charging a killing, look at their stocks.

>> No.18634161

>>18631661
That is what politics is all about. Groups with political power like oil producer try get special favors that benefit them but put cost on large and political not powerful groups like all consumers

>> No.18634351

>>18631736
>>18631745
based

>> No.18634484

>>18631705
impressive

spacing

my

friend

>> No.18634535

>>18632476
I'm grateful that neither my parents, nor my grandparents were B**mers. What the fuck is that anti-family mentality you all seem to have? 'Whelp I better just chuck junior onto the lawn the day he turns 18!' 'Better just leave nothing to anyone, except for my debt, hyuk.'
Do you think that's what people with money have ever done? The people rigging the game are all about generational wealth, educating each other, and pooling time, talent, and resources to give their tribe/family/oikos an edge against everyone else. And as long as people like you keep your mentality, the ones who actively work to maintain real wealth and breeding down the generations aren't going to have to work hard at all to keep you down.

You're probably just another victim of the 'nuclear family' meme.

>> No.18634554

>>18631661
>instead of being retrained to do something actually productive?
Like being a redd*t sóycuck like you?

>> No.18634598

>>18633961
Roughnecks? they bust their ass.
They're one of our legit hard labor industries.

that's why this is so bad.
Maybe I dont get much exposure to hard labor opportunities where I'm at, but these people are machines. I have a lot of respect for those who work hard.

>> No.18635020

>>18634598

true.
i’ve got no real career path and was pulling up rig jobs here in texas literally right before this shot happened.

>> No.18635043

>>18635020
I briefly thought about working on a cargo ship.
I want to do something exciting but the rest of my life says "keep it simple".

>> No.18635090
File: 249 KB, 967x690, Screenshot_20200422-141006_Opera.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18635090

>>18631896
>US can never compete with Saudis and Russia on oil long term

Holy shit read a book. US shale oil being cheap means we don't need OPEC or Russia. We can make money at $30 a barrel, they need $50 a barrel to break even.

The current situation is a combination of OPEC's hissy fit price war (that's already over) and demand destruction from Coronavirus.

You're all retards.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_-1MquvFmUA

>> No.18635133

>>18634535
Did you read what he wrote you retard

>> No.18635416

>>18635090
Long term though, the estimated shale deposits are nowhere near the level of the saudis if my memory is right.

The ideal is to still transition away from oil in the long term. Though as far as energy per unit volume, ease of use, and portability, it’s real fucking hard to beat oil and it’s refined products.

>> No.18635830

>>18635416
>The ideal is to still transition away from oil in the long term.
Like a new green deal you mean?

>> No.18636238

>>18635043

same here man. but you’ve gotta go work on a land rig for about a year before they’ll send you to sea. unless you go to school in houston that practically places you before you even graduate.
i say go for it. 14/7 schedule sounds based i just don’t know what a roustabout salary actually is. i’m hearing anything from $16/hr to 90k/yr

can anyone confirm?

>> No.18636247

>>18635090
t. increasingly nervous jew

>> No.18636423

>>18631978
>We now have enough oil, at the surface, to sustain us for a long time

Global output is 90 mbbl/day, american storage is 650 mbbl, american consumption is 20 mbbl/day.

Literally only 32 days of storage and you're talking like the pumps are off forever. You are retarded.

>> No.18636520

>>18635830
Yes.

>> No.18637158

>>18635830
No that was just some bullshit feel good aspirational shit.

It had no teeth, it was just “let’s try hard and here are a bunch of BIG ideas!!” Not sure why you think that’s relevant, there are many reasons to pursue

>> No.18637225

>>18631661
>MUH FREE MARKET

>> No.18637877

>>18635090
Whatever you are smoking, gimme some.

US shale oil is significantly more expensive to produce than oil produced in other countries, especially Saudi Arabia. Frackers getting squeezed is the whole point of the oil flooding, this has been tried before but this time it seems to be more successful.

Not only is fracking energy intensive compared to just pumping the pure oil, but you have all kinds of government red tape for every business venture in the US which does not exist in for example Russia. Frackers are also highly leveraged compared to their competition.

tl;dr frackers are fracked if current trends continue

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