/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.17863169]

>NNOOOOOOOOO THE STOCK MARKET CANT JUST CRASH!!! ALL OF MY BILLIONARINO FRIENDS WILL HAVE TO EAT SANDWITCHES FOR LUNCH LIKE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE!

This is just the beginning, capitalist scum. It’s your fault for putting trust in a system as chaotic and anarchic as a free market. We are about go through through the Great Depression x10.

The working class people will have it the worst. But the system must fail before people start searching for something better.

[Anonymous No.17863207]

>>17863169
Yes, I also oppose capitalism. How could you tell?

[Anonymous No.17863253]

>>17863169
Ok. Can you suggest something better?

Oh, Marxist theories are not better, just FYI

[Anonymous No.17863283]

>>17863207
fbpb

[Anonymous No.17863325]

the marxist theories are only the starting point. Everyone must discover the truth by themselves.

[Anonymous No.17863331]

you can literally transfer wealth from the wealthy to yourself by going short right now
but you are too retarded and deserve to be poor
which is why you will die in another failed revolution

[Anonymous No.17863390]

>>17863207
>*does shady deals with big business*
>*sells out their own people to literal slavery and pseudo-slavery for the profit of said big business*
>*sells off national property so hard the "privatize" has to be added to the English dictionary to describe it*
ok

[Anonymous No.17863411]

>>17863207
>Yes, I also oppose capitalism

[Anonymous No.17863414]

>>17863169
>people shouldnt be allowed to own things
Ok socialist

[Anonymous No.17863436]

Fuck arrogant ideologist children
One day you'll learn that the ideological mind, which would destroy all societies if spread to everyone therein, is surrogate for actual integral purpose in life and is probably a symptom of cowardice
Or you won't

[Anonymous No.17863482]

>>17863207
based

[Anonymous No.17863511]

>>17863169
Anglo Americanism has failed us only one solution now lads, the final solution

[Anonymous No.17863517]

>>17863169
>free market

But its heavily regulated and manipulated.

[Anonymous No.17863526]

>>17863207
>Nazis
>Oppose capitalism
Not very historically accurate

[Anonymous No.17863548]

>>17863390
Unironically the Soviet Union

[Anonymous No.17863557]

>>17863169

There is a literal bureau of central planning controlling the state buying stocks. Communism.

[Anonymous No.17863565]

>I'm so retarded that I can only think in terms of four dialectically opposite pairs of terms

[Anonymous No.17863605]

We are in late stage capitalism. Literally no one can refute this. Automation and AI will replace all jobs within the next decades.

[Anonymous No.17863624]

>>17863207
let us first bring down the capitalist machine and then we can argue about what version of socialism works better.

[Anonymous No.17863641]

>>17863411
>>17863526
>The National Socialist German Workers' Party was capitalist
Its crazy how obvious you shills are

[Anonymous No.17863670]

>>17863390
>"Lend lease and selling cheap products to Americans is not the same thing!"

[Anonymous No.17863687]

>>17863624
Based pseudo-accelerationist retard

[Anonymous No.17863727]

lol

[Anonymous No.17863737]

>>17863624
what the fuck do you call the bailouts, moneyprinting, fractional reserve reqs at zero, ZIRP and market manipulation if not socialism? Socialism for the rich is why we are here retard.

[Anonymous No.17863749]

>>17863207
The absolute state of /pol/
>My national socialist views oppose capitalism
>My war economy beliefs oppose capitalism
The absolute state of you both

[Anonymous No.17863782]

>>17863641
buffalo wings

[Anonymous No.17863793]

>>17863605
Machines wipes you out because you're now useless

[Anonymous No.17863826]

>>17863169
This crash was literally a ultimately a result of socialization of losses going back to 2008
Even soft CB socialism is ultimately a disaster, it's just taken reality some time to catch up.

[Anonymous No.17863834]

>>17863169
>implying we're losing money and pink wojaks aren't larps or genuine retards who deserved to lose everything anyway.
You have to be 18 to post here kid.
More puts tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.17863874]

It's so obvious that these ideologues never receive any exposure to conflicting thought because they're incapable of suspending a single one of their own presuppositions in order to see why exactly every one of their conversations with "rightoids" (or "commies" for that matter) never even reaches the point of defining the terms in use and rather descends immediately into confused name-calling and feeling superior because the other person is clearly retarded or evil
absolutely based. Saving the world.

[Anonymous No.17863882]

>>17863390
>>17863411
>>17863526
Nazi Germany had the German Labor Front, which was a collection of labor unions that was given state power. They also had paid vacations (Strength Through Joy), and tons of other gibs. Also the industrial CEOs didn't have an real power, because the Nazi Party could have them executed and seize their property whenever they wanted, and this actually happened to many Jewish and English businessmen. The main reason they didn't liquidate Krupp Steel or Mauser was because it would cause economic chaos and decrease Germany's military build-up speed; and Hitler talked about this in his personal writings about Strasser. Also the reason Nazis opposed Bolsheviks and anarchists was because those leftist factions were against the existence of the independent German state. Bolsheviks wanted to make it a Russian puppet, and anarchists wanted to destroy the state altogether. Being opposed to globalists doesn't mean you hate your own working class.

By your own standards, the Soviet Union wasn't "socialist" either, because production was controlled by party bureaucrats, not "the workers". The Soviets crushed several attempts to form anarchist communes in the USSR territory.

[Anonymous No.17863885]

Say it with me,
EVERY

[Anonymous No.17863903]

>>17863749
Only a socialist could write national socialism is not opposed to capitalism.

>socialism isnt socialism

[Anonymous No.17863916]

>>17863641
>they are socialist because they said so
lrn2read fag

[Anonymous No.17863936]

>>17863882
Of course it wasn't, nothing is a manifestation of my ideology unless it's good in which case it is until it does something bad in which case it becomes clear that the ideological opponent still runs the society

[Anonymous No.17863951]

>>17863903
>But it's in the name!

[Anonymous No.17863969]

>>17863882
China has a very similar system to that and yet they'e still capitalist and not socialist.

Socialism is socialism regardless of how you want to define it.

[Anonymous No.17863974]

>>17863882
Then why not nationalize Krupp Steel or Mauser? You keep acting like Nazi Germany was anti-capitalist when Opel was owned by General Motors and they had mass re-privatization programs.

[Anonymous No.17863985]

>>17863207
lol hitler's gang killed every single true socialist nazi/commie on the Night of the Long Knives

[Anonymous No.17863998]

>>17863936
Kinda like how tankies and ancoms try to portray Nazi Germany as ancap because they're still butthurt about Operation Barbarossa.

[Anonymous No.17864006]

Don't worry bro, we don't have to eat sandwiches. Just short

[Anonymous No.17864013]

>>17863916
National socialism is quite obviously a grand departure from strict "natural rights" private property absolutism as well as from egalitarian socialism. Stop reducing things to a ridiculous and artificial simplicity

[Anonymous No.17864014]

>>17863414
>I cant be the gatekeeper for all the worlds commodities and finance

How horrible it would be for those poor poor billionaires and companies to lose that crucial and organic role in the world

[Anonymous No.17864045]

>>17864013
So it has nothing to do with 90% of socialist movements, why is it still called socialism then?

[Anonymous No.17864047]

>>17863903
Yeah I'm a fucking socialist. How on earth did you know? It's almost like you're so angry that someone on the internet didn't agree with your braindead beliefs that you just guessed or something. Bravo you fucking idiot kys

[Anonymous No.17864055]

>>17863882
Keep doing those gymnastics, and you'll surely develop some kind of psychic powers.

[Anonymous No.17864062]

>>17863974
Because there wouldn't be enough time to find new management for such a massive corporation.

Stalin was an autist obsessed with ideological purity to the point that he executed a bunch of his best generals just before invading the Baltics and Finland. This caused a lot of Soviet failures due to the new leadership being incompetent.

[Anonymous No.17864078]

>>17863169
I may be a socialist, but free markets are the best you can get. The problem is most people don't have a trade and because of that we went from a strong labor economy to a weaker financial one. Trades, labor, and the ability to build is the great equalizer. Put trades back in school.

[Anonymous No.17864124]

>>17864055
Okay well just admit that capitalism is superior to socialism because the countries with the highest HDI are capitalist Nordic welfare states, just like Nazi Germany was.

[Anonymous No.17864136]

>>17863207
B A S E D

[Anonymous No.17864179]

>>17863969
>China has a very similar system to that and yet they'e still capitalist and not socialist.

Many tankies would argue with you though.

[Anonymous No.17864200]

>>17864045
Somewhat for appeal and the history of the party, somewhat as a catchall for the large role played by the state(-plutocratic conglomerate) vis-a-vis enlightenment pre 20th century traditional and/or laissez-faire societies, partially because the spirit of the movement, the meshing of "volk" with "worker", the fetishism of physical over intellectual labour and the hatred of high finance are distinctly inspired (though not solely inspired) by certain socialist notions

[Anonymous No.17864257]

>>17864045
There has never been a remotely pure implementation of any ideology, ever, and there never will be. Relative descriptions are useful when all parties using them kr discussing them are aware of the perspective advanced.

[Anonymous No.17864297]

>>17864200
>the meshing of "volk" with "worker", the fetishism of physical over intellectual labour and the hatred of high finance are distinctly inspired (though not solely inspired) by certain socialist notions

This is pretty evident in how they Khmer Rouge literally issued an order to genocide anybody who had glasses, because wanting to read means you're an "upper-class intellectual faggot", lol.

[Anonymous No.17864349]

>>17864200
That's all pedantic bullshit that doesn't concern me one bit. What matters is policy over everything else.
>>17864257
But when your ideology departs completely from and is diametrically opposed to all other ideologies with the same name then acting like they're all part of the same group is wrong.

[Anonymous No.17864350]

>>17863526
They opposed them in the most literal sense, historically, because the Captalist empire came to destroy them along with the Bolsheviks
Amazing how ignoran redditors are

[Anonymous No.17864381]

>>17863390
We're not talking about the soviet union here bro

[Anonymous No.17864408]

>>17863605
go back u fuckin fag

[Anonymous No.17864417]

>>17863951
>national socialist germany wasn't socialist
it's just unbelievable.
>>17864047
confirms he is a moron

[Anonymous No.17864430]

>>17863411
le privatisation meme
the kind of privatisation where both old state and private business was transferwd under direct party control

[Anonymous No.17864434]

>>17863207
not historically accurate in the slightest but still very based

[Anonymous No.17864447]

>>17863826
Socialism for the white collar rich who never "worked" a day in their lives and mostly have everything they have through inheritance.

[Anonymous No.17864461]

>>17864430
>ChINa is StAtE COMmunism
Socialists are the retards constantly trying to convince you their ideology isn't what it actually is

[Anonymous No.17864465]

>>17863207
why do white and jewish capitalists have the same monied interests?

[Anonymous No.17864493]

>>17863605

Thats what Marx thought about sewing machines and steam engines in 1848 tho?

[Anonymous No.17864523]

>>17864465
>white
>anything but an jewish made up term to lump all Europeans into one amorphous blob
NGMI

[Anonymous No.17864541]

>>17864447
Inheritance is just merit extended over several lifetimes. Somebody raised by a successful parent is more likely to have genetics/philosophy that make them successful also. If you oppose inheritance, you limit the growth of genetic/philosophical excellence to only one generation.

I wouldn't even be oppose to some kind of state-mandated exams or other standards placed on children of elites to ensure they're not slacking.

[Anonymous No.17864546]

>>17864465
hitler was a keynesian you retard

[Anonymous No.17864570]

>>17864447

Sure thing but the point is that large scale gov interference in free markets = poop.

[Anonymous No.17864572]

>>17864349
Epic
If you're not willing to entertain anything other than what your ideology allows you to, then it's obvious that nazi Germany was not socialist because private property as such was not abolished or aggregated and allocated by the workers, and, similarly (if you're willing to suspend your presuppositions enough to actually understand what "capitalists" think they're talking about when they mention "liberty") the party wasn't pro-liberty or pro-property because of the extensive role of the state in confiscating and reallocating capital, forcing labour, applying strict rules to the use of corporate capital so that it benefitted state objectives, interfered heavily and coercively with all modes of organisation smaller than the state (families, religious beliefs) and so on.
It was neither capitalism nor socialism, unless you're using the strawmen version of either of these terms utilised by their opposition

[Anonymous No.17864684]

>>17863605
Not all jobs. They still can't replace construction workers, plumbers, farmers, nurses, and chefs. Those are jobs that require personal person to person interaction.

They can replace almost all white collar service jobs though.

[Anonymous No.17864694]

>>17864434
The Capitalists opposed the Germans in the most literal sense, by coming and destroying them. You probably have an incorrect definition of Capitalism provided to you by state educators in your capitalist country, which would be why you think they're not opposed philosophically.

[Anonymous No.17864700]

>>17864417
Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea democratic?

[Anonymous No.17864754]

>>17864700
no.

>National socialist Germany was capitalist
no it was not, imagine trying to make this argument

[Anonymous No.17864773]

>>17863207
Nice.

[Anonymous No.17864775]

>>17864754
The issue is that no one here can actually agree on a definition of capitalism

[Anonymous No.17864815]

>>17864684

Manual labor jobs are unironically for niggers and spics.

[Anonymous No.17864848]

>>17863169

[Anonymous No.17864854]

>>17864570
It depends what and how much interference. Having a federal reserve board of big banks is a big influence. That money could have been better used to safeguard and train laid off workers.

At the present case there is a global emergency, so government has to step in or risk trust or credibility, and that is not good for markets.

[Anonymous No.17864871]

>>17864572
>is diametrically opposed to all other ideologies with the same name
>>17864349
>Germany was not socialist because private property as such was not abolished or aggregated and allocated by the workers

In the USSR it wasn't allocated by workers either, it was allocated by authoritarian bureaucrats in Moscow who claimed to speak for workers; yet all you commies still have Soviet propaganda pics on your hard drives that you fap to.

Also there was both private property and public property in Nazi Germany, and a lot of the claims of "privatizations" are disingenuous because a lot of property was allocated to the Nazi Party, which was private on paper, but de facto controlled the state in its entirety.

Also let's walk through this meme that Hitler "loved" capitalism. He had absolute state power, so there wasn't any incentive for him to "obey" CEOs of industries that were subservient to him by law. Since he didn't liquidate private industry entirely, we can thus reason that he only left certain industries private because it was more trouble than it was worth to liquidate them while also trying to stabilize the German economy after the Wiemar inflation and dealing with foreign threats.

[Anonymous No.17864891]

>>17864775
that is only a issue for socialists because that's the only arguments they have; semantic arguments.

They are the only retards who's ideology is so shit and untenable that need to argue their own ideology isn't what it is.

Capitalism is private ownership. Capitalism is moral because the only way to legally get someone elses wealth is to have them willingly exchange it whereas in socialism you just take it

[Anonymous No.17864951]

>>17864891
Capitalism is not private ownership - even feudal society and pre-money society had private ownership. Your definition is insufficient to differentiate capitalism from every other government structure ever.

[Anonymous No.17864956]

>>17863253
capitalism without severe corruption/ no regard for human suffering + a social safety net

[Anonymous No.17864995]

>>17864541
Am not against inheritance either, but fair is fair. They tend to talk about "pulling yourself by your bootstraps", the joys of the free market and unlimited growth so they should be treated as such. If you have poorly run firm it should collapse. The smaller banks would absorb the loss.

[Anonymous No.17864997]

>>17863207
fucking fpbp

[Anonymous No.17865058]

>>17864815
Ok boomer.

[Anonymous No.17865074]

>>17864951
it's enough to differentiate it from socialism

[Anonymous No.17865094]

>>17864956
capitalism, but without everything that makes it profitable

[Anonymous No.17865121]

>>17865094
>consumer confidence doesn't increase profit

[Anonymous No.17865125]

>>17865074
So your position is that Ancient Egypt, where there was no money system and the entire country was the personal private property of the Pharaoh, was Capitalist?

[Anonymous No.17865165]

>>17865125
my position is that national socialist germany was not capitalist

[Anonymous No.17865166]

>>17863985
sounds kinda based

[Anonymous No.17865177]

Wait until 100 million people are unemployed and you’re being anally gang raped in your own home by a group of leather clad Raiders who got mad because you had nothing of value.
You’ll be wishing the stock market didn’t crash then.

[Anonymous No.17865188]

>>17865121
nothing cranks numbers like a good war

[Anonymous No.17865193]

>>17863985
And it was based and epicpilled

[Anonymous No.17865201]

>>17865165
Correct

[Anonymous No.17865237]

>>17864956

>capitalism without severe corruption/ no regard for human suffering + a social safety net

that is literally communism u retard

[Anonymous No.17865274]

>>17863169
1) We don't live in a free market.
2) Those "capitalist scum" are the ones who selling aka pulling their billions out of the market meaning they will still have more money than you ever will.

[Anonymous No.17865459]

>>17864951
Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production.

[Anonymous No.17865509]

>>17865274
he doesn't want money he wants his life to be controlled by some central authority

[Anonymous No.17865514]

>>17864871
>based fantasy retard who has never looked at the real world before
Cool.

[Anonymous No.17865517]

>>17864461
State capitalism. Socialism strictly says that the worker must own the means of production. Under State capitalism, absolutely nothing changes. Instead of the capitalist at the top of the hierarchy, it's now the state. The state of affairs does not change. I'm not socialist, but fuck the definition is super clear, stop trying to act like it isn't.

And before you weasel out saying "oh but USSR," virtually the same thing. The state owned everything.

[Anonymous No.17865528]

>>17865459
See >>17865125

[Anonymous No.17865556]

>>17865514
Try making a counter-argument.

[Anonymous No.17865589]

>>17865528
the pharaoh is the state you absolute retard, no.

[Anonymous No.17865621]

>>17865556
I'm just here to laugh, faggot, and you're the joke.

[Anonymous No.17865650]

>>17865621
So you have no argument? Cool.

[Anonymous No.17865670]

>>17865589
Capitalism isn't just private ownership, or else every single other type of regime is capitalism. Don't bog down your own ideology to a set of terms.

[Anonymous No.17865675]

>>17865650
This board has IDs for a reason, nigger. I'm not the person you were arguing with.