/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.17751173]

>all those socialist shits that don't realize it was their praised keynesianist approach with zero percent interest rates that bloated the market with worthless cash, which is now literally getting blown the fuck out
>it's all "muh evil free markets" now while they bloat another bull market for 5-10 years from now on
>loan financed zombie companies literally never ever get cleaned out
>slowly sovietize the market and wonder why it crashes harder every time

Great "intervention" you statist retards.

The worst thing is, these "people" won't learn a thing cause they don't even understand what they did wrong.

They are literally intellectually incapable.

[Anonymous No.17751217]

They could have paid off everyone's student loans with the money they burned today which would have gone much further to strengthening the economy over time.

[Anonymous No.17751258]

>>17751173
People don't know how any of this shit works, much less how to fix it; they just want something to believe in, some God to worship and some Devil to hate. Communism is just a secular religion

[Anonymous No.17751287]

>>17751173
>yfw your economic system requires the government to print trillions of dollars in bailouts whenever investors get scared and shit their pants otherwise it collapses under its own weight

great system guys

[Anonymous No.17751383]

>>17751173
The whole point of keynesianism is countercyclical policy you goddamn troglodyte, which is the exact opposite of what Trump did.

[Anonymous No.17751412]

>>17751173
I've stopped trying to explain this to people. Now I just try to profit from it.

[Anonymous No.17751441]

>>17751217
That shit ain't gonna happen.
Daddy state wants his profit tax on that interest.
If they pay off those loans, that tax money is literally running cycles.

On the other hand, if you need someone else to pay off your first investment into personal economic strength, the likelihood that you will go far economically is relatively low anyway.

>>17751287
It's kinda ironic hearing that as a criticism towards capitalism, yet that's literally exactly what keynesianists do.

>>17751383
Except no keynesianist has ever reversed their policy in good times, because that requires tight planning and that costs them voters.

[Anonymous No.17751587]

>>17751441
>Muh not real capitalism

Cope harder

[Anonymous No.17751620]

>>17751287
It doesn't collapse alone, when investors lose money they just take responsibilities for their decisions changing their approach.
It's not that hard, when you're bleeding you try to cure yourself searching for a medic, this is how the market works, and you don't need a government to understand that you're in danger.

[Anonymous No.17751630]

>>17751383
>Trump did
Like Trump or any president has any real control over the Feds policy. Why we haven't nationalized it I'll never know.

[Anonymous No.17751652]

>>17751441
>Except no keynesianist has ever reversed their policy in good times, because that requires tight planning and that costs them voters.
Plenty of governments have successfully adopted countercyclical fiscal policy. What Trump did is stimulating the economy when it was already growing, while cutting taxes and massively increasing fiscal deficit and debt. That's the literal, exact opposite of keynesianism, and it's what has left the government with no tools to contain the current crisis.

[Anonymous No.17751680]

Always love how the argument against state intervention boils down to "HOW COULD THE STATE ENABLE THESE BAD PRACTICES" as if the fact that companies took advantage of them doesn't show how much intervention and oversight is needed.

[Anonymous No.17751687]

>>17751630
>Like Trump or any president has any real control over the Feds policy.
He isn't supposed to, but Trump has put massive pressure on the Fed to lower the rates when it wasn't needed to do so, all for political gain.

[Anonymous No.17751710]

>muh keynesianism is socialism

shut the fuck up. anything short of full blown communism, including the violent and bloody revolution, is just liberal shit

[Anonymous No.17751755]

>>17751173
the real blackpill is inevitable cycles

there is heaps of money to be made because of those socialists though

[Anonymous No.17751802]

>>17751173
It's pointless. When it's time to recover everyone will just resort to "muh ebil free markets we need more protection", totally oblivious to everything.

[Anonymous No.17751808]

>>17751710

There is no lifeform lower than a communist

[Anonymous No.17751824]

>>17751680
Or that the hogs that run these companies don't absolutely LOVE when the state intervenes on their behalf, as if they're secretly principled free marketers.

[Anonymous No.17751840]

>>17751173

Keynes on Marxism:

>[It] must always remain a portent to the historians of Opinion — how a doctrine so illogical and so dull can have exercised so powerful and enduring an influence over the minds of men, and, through them, the events of history.

[Anonymous No.17751872]

>>17751173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdnXjY5pMnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnpQ1HQPDHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkMnolgA5Q

Is Styxhexenhammer666 right about socialism and Bernie Sanders?

[Anonymous No.17751884]

>>17751630
Lad, I'm not even american but if it were up to Trump interest rates would be negative, even during a boom. Please at least admit that.

[Anonymous No.17751909]

>>17751824

The Difference between a rich man and a poor man is the rich man understands how the system works and exploits it.

Goy cattle like you get exploited

[Anonymous No.17751911]

>>17751710
I don't disagree that all your socialism BS is just liberal shit

[Anonymous No.17751924]

>>17751680
If you take away government intervention into the markets, corporations cannot use it to cheat and socialize their risks.

Self-interested corporations are a constant. The solution is not giving them the hand of the state which enables them cheat.

>oversight
Oversight is a fucking joke. Political pressures and regulatory capture totally nullify any well-intentioned "oversight".

[Anonymous No.17751951]

>>17751872
no and all e-celebs are massive faggots too

[Anonymous No.17752005]

>>17751840
>instead of letting the economy contract we will steal peoples wealth by making it illegal to own gold and then debase everything by 40% in one year

Keynesianism is economic socialism. It is a central authority taking peoples wealth and redistributing it to the collective under the justification of economic prosperity.
same way national socialism and communism works with justifications of racial prosperity and class prosperity respectively

[Anonymous No.17752026]

>>17751884

Negative interest rates a the biggest sign your currency is worthless.

U.S.A can't go negative unless they want to hasten the collapse into fulll worldwise Venezuela

[Anonymous No.17752027]

>>17751872
Why does he look like an inbred Jesus Christ?

[Anonymous No.17752048]

>>17752005
cope

[Anonymous No.17752077]

>>17751911
Capitalism is liberal shit. If you don't support a feudal monarchy, you're a filthy liberal.

[Anonymous No.17752100]

>>17752005

Admit it whites are just better at building a civilization

[Anonymous No.17752107]

>>17751924
>If you take away government intervention into the markets,

Literally will never happen. Companies love their gibs and will lobby the shit out of you to get them.

[Anonymous No.17752166]

>>17752048
>adam smith would support 21st century central banking

[Anonymous No.17752172]

>>17751173
>keynesian
>socialist
Pick one

[Anonymous No.17752181]

>socialists who have never been in power ever are to blame
yeah ok lmao

[Anonymous No.17752191]

>>17752172
literally the same thing >>17752005

[cunt No.17752212]

>>17751173
>socialist
>Keynesian
lol read a fucking book retard

[Anonymous No.17752268]

>>17752026
Exhibit A homie

[Anonymous No.17752282]

>>17751173

>Keynesianism is socialism

Holy fucking shit, you actual retard

Keynesianism was explicitly formulated as a means of saving capitalism from itself and Keynes was an explicit anti-Marxist

Buy a dictionary you actual retard

[Anonymous No.17752302]

>>17751173
COPE PORKY COPE

[Anonymous No.17752324]

>>17752005

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

>economic socialism

as opposed to *fucking what exactly* you drooling pseudo-intellectual

[Anonymous No.17752325]

>>17752005
>the macroeconomic framework for analysing and managing capitalist national economies is socialism
>literally everything i don't like or don't understand is socialism
nice one retard

[Anonymous No.17752328]

>>17751173
The free market is a meme.
Markets are never really free.
Essentially it’s only a rhetorical device to deflect from any criticism of capitalism.
The market is considered “free” in good times, and “not free” in bad times.

[Anonymous No.17752332]

>>17751173
Get your head checked ASAP, it seems your Coronavirus-induced fever may have fried your brain.

[Anonymous No.17752348]

>>17752282
It doesn't matter, they think that anything left of anarcho-neoliberalism is actually socialism. They're beyond saving.

[Anonymous No.17752349]

>>17752005
Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production.
>It is a central authority taking peoples wealth and redistributing it to the collective under the justification of economic prosperity.
Well you're right in the sense that wealth is redistributed, to the capitalist class which take the form of bailouts and tax cuts for the wealthy and naturally under Capitalism with surplus labor value from the workers.

[Anonymous No.17752400]

>>17752166
The point is that he would support neither of these things. Also, the biggest capitalist crises were before when fed reserve was even by any stretch relevant.

[Anonymous No.17752403]

>>17752191
>gommunizm is redisdribudion
How do you niggers live with a single brain-cell.

[Anonymous No.17752422]

>>17752328
The free market was a term coined by Adam Smith to described a theoretically perfect (in his opinion) economy without parasitic elements such as rentiers (IP/Copyright mongers or landlords) or financiers, or speculators. It did not mean an economy with no regulations or govt intervention.

[Anonymous No.17752425]

>>17752349

To dumb it even down further for OP:

socialism in political and economic theory is a broad umbrella term for "the workers own and control the economy as a group"

that's it

That's literally all it means

It encompasses everything from most variants of anarchism to marxism to market socialism, read a book

[Anonymous No.17752426]

>>17751173
>m-muh not real capitalism!
>muh magical free market will fix itself!
shut your fucking mouth, kike.

[Anonymous No.17752427]

>>17752212
>>17752282
What's considered Keynesian has evolved over time anons. Whenever the Fed starts up another round of QE or drop interest rates most people conservative or liberal don't blink an eye or even notice in the first place. Then when the bubble pops they blame it on capitalism when in reality it was the Keynesian policies that were implemented in the first place that they were so indifferent to. Most people believe that the president has far more control over the economy than the Fed and if you asked them what the Fed is they'd say that they'd probably never heard of it. OP might of poorly explained his thoughts on this pattern that he's noticing or maybe I'm just misinterpreting him, but either way he's making a valid observation.

[Anonymous No.17752458]

>>17752005

"economic socialism" is just some made up boogy man word shut the fuck up. You're redefining capitalist corruption as "socialism" because you're a child that needs to understand the world with special words that always mean "good" and "evil" and everything that is "evil" is immediately contorted to be the same as everything else under the bad word. The people dictating monetary policy are all ideologically pro-capitalism, they're pro private ownership and pro market. The people demanding the fed act to save them are all capitalists. This is really existing capitalism.

[Anonymous No.17752488]

>>17752427

Doesn't matter.

Just because people use something in the vernacular to mean something, doesn't mean that's what it actually is

Concepts have fucking basic definitions

[Anonymous No.17752514]

>>17751217
socialists promoted Keynes, retard. Stop whining about QE - which is your creation - you fucking bernout fag.

[Anonymous No.17752520]

>>17752488
>reddit spacing
fuck off back to chapo

[Anonymous No.17752563]

>>17752520

>muh reddit spacing

I will once you READ A BOOK, NIGGA

[Anonymous No.17752566]

>>17752324
>>17752325
>I can't reason past semantic definitions

>>17752349
capitalist is private ownership, you don't own something that can be taken under the justification of "economic prosperity"
>>17752400
>biggest crisis were before
completely false pic related

>>17752403
socialism is were the state owns your wealth. That is what keynesianism is, they take the wealth of individuals justified by some double think definition of economic prosperity like minimizing the unemployment rate

>>17752458
capitalism means private ownership. The only way to get money is to exchange value for it because you don't have a right to anyone elses wealth.
where socialism is some authority has the right to everyones wealth without the need to create value

[Anonymous No.17752567]

>>17752349
> Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production.
Which makes the collective ownership of money socialism.

[Anonymous No.17752594]

>>17752514

>sOcIaLiStS pRoMoTeD kEyNeS

Are you so utterly retarded as to not understand that different ideological factions have promoted social democratic policies with different aims

[Anonymous No.17752611]

>>17751173
Most people tend to be pretty unaware of the Fed's role in the markets and our economy regardless of political party desu.

[Anonymous No.17752649]

>>17752594
hitler was a keynesian

[Anonymous No.17752650]

>>17752566

>doubling down on what is literally not the definition of a basic concept for reasons that amount to "because I say so"

[Anonymous No.17752652]

>>17752514
>can't separate socialist strawman from reality
typical rightoid kike

[Anonymous No.17752658]

>>17751620
>investors take responsibility for their decisions
why the fuck would they do that? are you 5 years old or something?

[Anonymous No.17752677]

>>17752566
>socialism is when peepeepoopoo
>its just semantics guys!!!

[Anonymous No.17752693]

>>17752567

When marxists say "means of production," they're referring to land and tangible assets like machines and facilities. You dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.17752710]

>>17752566
You have to understand crisis in relative terms, the crisis in 1930 impacted people in 1930 much more than what the 2008 crisis impacted the people in 2008

[Anonymous No.17752724]

>>17752649

And hitler also had socialists killed or sent to camps and was a massive crony capitalist to the point where construction and planning on the camps was outsourced to firms like Siemens and IG Farben. really activates the ol' almonds

[Anonymous No.17752730]

>>17752594
Social Democratic means somebody who wants to transition to socialism via reformist gradualism means rather than revolutionary means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#Development
> During the late 19th century and the early 20th century, social democracy was a broad labour movement within socialism that aimed to replace private ownership with social ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, taking influence from both Marxism and the supporters of Ferdinand Lassalle.[47] By 1868–1869, the socialism associated with Karl Marx had become the official theoretical basis of the first social democratic party established in Europe, the Social Democratic Workers' Party of Germany.[48]
> By the early 20th century, the German social democratic politician Eduard Bernstein rejected the ideas in orthodox Marxism that proposed specific historical progression and revolution as a means to achieve social equality, advancing the position that socialism should be grounded in ethical and moral arguments for social justice and egalitarianism that are to be achieved through gradual legislative reform.[49]