/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.15712019]

>mortgage cucks actually think they own a home

[Anonymous No.15712057]

Entertaining when they find out they don't own shit.

[Anonymous No.15712063]

>>15712019
yeah all my friends are buying their own homes like idiots while im still living off my parents, those idiots

[Anonymous No.15712066]

>>15712019
and even after buying it, they have to pay property tax so its not even theirs. Merica.

[Anonymous No.15712076]

I still want one, just so I can build a really nice home gym.

[Anonymous No.15712091]

Don't forget in America there's also a HOA which functions exactly like a government in fining you and telling you what to do, but you don't even have the facade of a vote.

[Anonymous No.15712109]

>>15712019
Mom says dinner's ready, OP

[Anonymous No.15712117]

I'll take the equity from a mortgage over paying the exact same in rent to a private rental conglomerate.

People who pay HOAs are the real cucks.

[Anonymous No.15712118]

At a certain point you can get a nice quality house on a mortgage than what you pay in rent. In NYC the nicest condos are new buildings which you can only buy but if you want to rent your only option is some run down piece of shit

[Anonymous No.15712133]

>>15712063
>>15712109
Cope

[Anonymous No.15712154]

Don't forget in America there's also electricity, water, and gas bills which functions exactly like a utility company in billing you and telling you what to pay, but you don't even have the facade of a vote.

[Anonymous No.15712174]

>people without a mortgage think they own the home
there is no fee simple absolute land ownership in america. everyone is the equivalent of a feudal serf.

[Anonymous No.15712200]

>>15712091
plus property tax
land of the free my ass

[Anonymous No.15712209]

>>15712154
You can choose to opt out of utilities and set up your own water, electric, heat source etc.

You cannot opt out of HOAs.

[Anonymous No.15712213]

>>15712109
Tell her to put it in the oven, I'll grab it when I'm ready

[Anonymous No.15712251]

>>15712209

yeah you can just don't buy a house with an HOA

[Anonymous No.15712288]

>house insurance
>mortgage
>mortgage interest
>property tax
>HOA fees
OOOOHHHHHH SAAAAAY
>estate tax

[Anonymous No.15712295]

>>15712209
You can choose to opt out of purchasing a home deeded with an HOA and set up your own security, lawn care, swimming pool etc.

You cannot opt out of being retarded.

[Anonymous No.15712314]

>>15712251
This is true, but HOA-free houses are rare and their market price reflect their rarity and desirability of being rulecuck-free.

If a house is already connected to utilities you can choose to disconnect them.

[Anonymous No.15712326]

>>15712019
>using your own money to buy a home
people who still do this in 2019 have bottomfeeder IQ

[Anonymous No.15712335]

>>15712117

>thinking your home is an asset and not a liability

Whew

[Anonymous No.15712344]

>>15712326
so what, you just make a down payment and rent it out?

[Anonymous No.15712352]

If you don't pay council tax (property tax) in Britain they can send you to prison but never take your home, only your belongings like furniture etc.
I honestly don't know what is worse.

[Anonymous No.15712380]

>>15712335

>thinking your home is a liability when it is income producing

you are cash flowing your home(s)...right anon?

[Anonymous No.15712408]

>>15712295
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/5vkw13/bought_a_house_without_hoa_now_a_hoa_is/

[Anonymous No.15712459]

>>15712380
Based and assetpilled

[Anonymous No.15712463]

>>15712408
did you even take the time to read the clickbait shit you posted?
that problem was solved with title insurance.
you're cherrypicking a case of title.

go buy a house and youll learn this shit.
alternatively, keep shitposting lies on 4chan the jews brainwashed you with to keep you ignorant of the cash cow that is real estate.
more misinformed idiots like you = more opportunities for us

[Anonymous No.15712473]

>>15712463
*you're cherrypicking a case of title fraud.

[Anonymous No.15712544]

lads

whens the next housing market crash?

[Anonymous No.15712563]

>>15712544
Never because everyone keeps thinking it's right around the corner.

[Anonymous No.15712581]

>>15712563
prices have to start dropping due to everyone being too poor to buy no?

[Anonymous No.15712610]

>>15712314
move to a place where a large percentage of the housing stock was built in the 1950s or earlier

[Anonymous No.15712619]

>>15712019
>frog posters thinking they aren't coping with the doomed lives they've made for themselves

[Anonymous No.15712620]

>>15712344
to who

[Anonymous No.15712653]

>>15712619
>they
>themselves
Yeah. No. Boomers fucked up most young people's chances of being homeowners with stable families

[Anonymous No.15712689]

>not being a landlord

[Anonymous No.15712701]

>>15712689
who is your renter

[Anonymous No.15712708]

>>15712701
(You)

[Anonymous No.15712716]

>>15712701
An old boomer lady on a pension and some single wage cuck who works 12 hours a day.

[Anonymous No.15712718]

>>15712463
It's the tip of the iceberg. A quick google search will show the myriad of problems related to HOAs.

Obviously there are ways around it, like >>15712610 points out. Obviously mortgages and owning houses make sense for some people. Obviously there are ways to profit off of real estate and sometimes immensely. This thread is not about that.

You're being dense on purpose.

[Anonymous No.15712743]

>>15712653
those shitstains.. Im 24. All I wanted was an okay job and a wifey. Too ashamed to be in a relationship with my current life

[Anonymous No.15712808]

>>15712718
then don't buy a house deeded with an HOA, you dense fuck.
or don't buy anything and live in fear of HOAs.
you're only doing yourself and others reading your misinformation a disservice.
unless you are a glow nigger trying to fear monger the goyim from investing in one of the most lucrative wealth engines of the modern millennia that is real estate...then yeah, you're doing a good job

[Anonymous No.15712819]

>>15712808
Oh you're not being dense on purpose, you actually are dense.

My bad, sorry.

[Anonymous No.15712824]

>all this sperging about America when taxes and fees are all worse elsewhere
My goodness you guys are asshurt about America.

[Anonymous No.15712829]

>>15712091
Every hoa I've heard of elects the board members. So you vote for someone who represents your interests, or convince others to vote for you. There's a lot of confirmation bias in reddit HOA stories because nobody ever posts about the boring ones that just collect the garbage and trim the hedges for you at cost.

[Anonymous No.15712835]

>>15712829
>Every hoa I've heard of elects the board members
You made this up.

[Anonymous No.15712838]

It is funny how I hear about my friends "owning a home" and then they tell me about their 30 year mortgage. Do people not understand ownership anymore

[Anonymous No.15712877]

>>15712819
>Obviously there are ways around it, like >>15712610 points out.

oh geez you may be right, what was it that he pointed out to you as a sly way around the dreaded HOA?

oh that's right...don't buy a home deeded to an HOA.
like we're all telling you

is he dense too?

kek poor goyim faggot

[Anonymous No.15712889]

>>15712835
That’s actually true as I understand it. It’s also true that the people who tend to run for spots in the HOA are obnoxious power tripping busybodies with nothing better to do with their time, i.e. boomers. Have fun with that

[Anonymous No.15712906]

>>15712877
>is he dense too?
He's not emotionally invested in this topic and sperging out like you are, so no.

[Anonymous No.15713038]

>>15712906
solid deflection kek
but to play along: yes, i am emotionally invested in real estate.
it has given me wealth and opportunity that i wish others to enjoy.
you'd be surprised how many people want to be wealthy, yet are steadfast in the same thought patterns that keep them poor.
mortgages are that thought pattern.
you're so stuck on the subject of HOAs as an expense (which is true) that you fail to see the bigger picture.
as long as your properties have *positive cashflow*, you win the game.

[Anonymous No.15713074]

>>15712344
>>15712326
No, you get a mortgage and invest the money you'd have tied up in the house to outpace the growth on the mortgage. If you get 7% in boomer funds, 4% interest on the house, you're outpacing the value of no debt by 3%. Opportunity cost is something overlooked by poorfags, but will severely hurt you. I know people that paid for their house in cash, and basically missed out on several decades of compounding on several hundred thousand USD.

[Anonymous No.15713095]

>>15713038
>as long as your properties have *positive cashflow*, you win the game
If you're a landlord why are you so butthurt there are people who would rather rent than pay mortgages i.e. people who want to give you money

[Anonymous No.15713108]

>>15712581
That's not how it works. Not everyone is "too poor", nor was lack of money the reason for the last housing crisis. Households were overleveraged, and they've massively deleveraged since the crisis.
People thinking housing will be affected in the same way are going to get shat on when they realize not every financial crisis is the same as 2008. It's looking like the issue will be corporate debt this time, not household debt.

[Anonymous No.15713128]

>>15713074
You're not taking into account that you have to live somewhere, and are going to pay rent if you aren't paying a mortgage.

You're also assuming that the stock market will ALWAYS go up.

[Anonymous No.15713133]

>>15713074
pretty sure thats fraud, brainlet

[Anonymous No.15713157]

>>15713128
7% is the S&P500 average across all the ups and downs.

[Anonymous No.15713167]

>>15713133
What the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.15713171]

>>15712838
>thinking mortgages are bad
The absolute state of /biz/

Mortgages are the best form of leverage a retail investor can get. Hands down, full stop. You dumb cucks that actually, literally think it’s a debt like a car note or credit card are deliberately keeping yourselves poor.

[Anonymous No.15713172]

HOAs kinda suck but its a good way to keep undersirables out of your neighborhood.

[Anonymous No.15713193]

>>15713171
Mortgages are not bad but it's true it's also not home ownership, these two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.15713198]

>>15713128
fist thing you assume that people will repect your right of property
people will do so only if that is their interest
we are entering a phase where property will be ceased

also property was going up because the population was going up
not anymore

your renter is a nigger at best
stiff

[Anonymous No.15713205]

>>15713108
>massively deleveraged
Looks like we’re right back where we started boss

[Anonymous No.15713244]

>>15713193
Yeah sure m8, if you want to get pedantic you don’t actually own anything and live at the good grace of the state.

Functionally, from a day to day perspective, you own that property that you buy with a mortgage.

[Anonymous No.15713261]

>>15713244
>Functionally, from a day to day perspective, you own that property that you buy with a mortgage.
I agree. But in a crisis perspective you don't own the property.

[Anonymous No.15713303]

>>15713261
Your reaching pretty fucking hard if you have to invoke imminent domain or some apocalyptic meltdown of civilization. At that point the ownership of anything becomes moot.

[Anonymous No.15713333]

>>15713303
>imminent domain or some apocalyptic meltdown of civilization
Scale it back to mortgage defaults buddy.

[Anonymous No.15713393]

>>15713171
We're not buying your bags, boomer

[Anonymous No.15713441]

>>15713333
Backing your mortgage with the property as collateral doesn’t mean you don’t own the property.

[Anonymous No.15713456]

>>15713393
I don’t want you to, I want you to pay rent like a good little cuck. Remember to budget for the next increase at the end of your lease!

[Anonymous No.15713459]

>>15713128
I never said the market always goes up. It's up to the individual to see if the risk is worth the ROI vs the interest on debt.
>>15713133
What? Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.15713494]

>>15713205
Auto loans aren't as big a deal, the underlying asset can be seized (and won't cause foreclosure). The main issue is student loans here, which can't be discharged via bankruptcy. That implies more a long-term issue as spending declines to service the student debts.

[Anonymous No.15713501]

>>15713441
It does mean you don't own the property in a default.

[Anonymous No.15713522]

>>15713171
Fucking finally. So many retards here don't understand opportunity cost or leverage.
>NO I DON'T WANT TO PAY 3% ON MY MORTGAGE WHICH IS A REAL 1% DUE TO INFLATION. I HATE MAKING 6-8% YEARLY ON BOOMER FUNDS

[Anonymous No.15713540]

>>15712117
It's to keep the niggers out

[Anonymous No.15713554]

>>15713441
Lol mortgage mental gymnastics cope

[Anonymous No.15713588]

>>15713501
Not necessarily. You can back a mortgage on a property with collateral other than the property itself.

[Anonymous No.15713610]

>>15713554
It seems like mental gymnastics to you because your dumb ass doesn’t know how mortgages work.

[Anonymous No.15713617]

>>15713588
Then it's not a mortgage anymore it's just a loan.

[Anonymous No.15713635]

>>15713610
>i I totally own the house! It's just that if I miss a payment I lose it, h-heh heh

[Anonymous No.15713678]

>>15713635
>I I totally am free! It's just if I break the law I lose those freedoms, h-heh heh

[Anonymous No.15713691]

>>15713095
>If you're a landlord why are you so butthurt there are people who would rather rent than pay mortgages i.e. people who want to give you money
because i already live a life of financial abundance and there is plenty to go around.
also because the majority of poor people (renters) won't listen because they have their minds indoctrinated with poor person mentality:
"i can't afford it" vs "how can i get it"
"HOAs are bad" vs "will this HOA expense still allow the property to cashflow"

i used to be poor (mindset) like many of you.
this is not something to be ashamed of.
the first step to realizing your wealth is to realize you (and most likely your parents) are financially illiterate. my parents were.
will you continue be?

[Anonymous No.15713743]

>>15713617
a semantic difference. The rates and amortization are still the same.

>>15713635
Yeah, like I said. You don’t know shit about mortgages. Go read what actually happens during foreclosure proceedings.

[Anonymous No.15713785]

>>15713635
>what is a loan
This board has gone to garbage

[Anonymous No.15713855]

>>15713785
These people don't understand what an agreement is, but the board has always been shit. It's only natural that something that'd capture the general public (in regards to demographics) after the bitcoin runup to 19k would be full of incredible lobotomites.
I have a personal theory that the entire millennial generation has a poverty mindset ingrained into them after the 2008 Financial Crisis. They saw their familes get broken up through divorce, they may have lost their childhood homes, and may have seen that happen to many friends and family members. It's why, despite unemployment being the lowest in decades, people complain about jobs. It's why these retards hate debt, even if it can benefit them. It's why they reject financial markets and wall street, even if "boomer methods" of investing would allow them to capture some gains from the greatest economy in the history of civilization.

I fucking hate /biz/

[Anonymous No.15713882]

>>15713691
If you're financially literate like you say you should understand a concept called opportunity cost.

At the end if the day, if the property you have is being lived in instead of being rented out, it's a liability, not an asset. On a monthly basis, mortgages are cheaper than rent. But you have to pay the closing costs, you have to pay the down payment, and you have to assume all the financial risk. There's nothing wrong with renting to avoid these hassles especially if you can find greater opportunities elsewhere with your capital.

>>15713743
The term 'mortgage' was born out of semantics. The term is used so that it doesn't scare poor people the same way the word 'loan' does. Yes they're fundamentally the same, but mortgages specifically refer to property loans that are collateralized by the property itself.

[Anonymous No.15714037]

>>15713855
Interesting theory and probably partially true. I have friends that fell into this category. Me personally too damn hungry and thirsty I want to make it so I’ll do what it takes.
Debt is only good if you can make a return on it. Obviously a home is one of the best investments so it’s a literal no brain move

[Anonymous No.15714060]

>>15714037
>debt is only good if you can make a return on it
Yeah that's honestly the whole issue here, people can't make a distinction between bad debt and productive debt. I'm too ambitious to just chill and wage my whole life anyway.

[Anonymous No.15714075]

>>15713855
Paying for a liability you can't afford with debt is dumb.

Most people don't understand how to make money by spending money, in which case debt can be extremely profitable, regardless of generation. Your rant about millennials is pure drivel.

[Anonymous No.15714076]

>>15713171

Real estate is not an asset unless it generates cash flow. It is a liability. Deal with it cuck

[Anonymous No.15714095]

>>15713882
>If you're financially literate like you say you should understand a concept called opportunity cost.
>At the end if the day, if the property you have is being lived in instead of being rented out, it's a liability, not an asset.
Yes Anon! You're getting it!
Well...almost.
You're still thinking too small picture when you say "if the property you have is being lived in instead of being rented out, it's a liability, not an asset."
it is not the act of "living in" the property yourself that deems it a liability; a property is only a liability if it is not generating you income...if it is not CASH FLOW POSITIVE.

i have "lived in" every property that i own. i have also had tenants and/or airbnb in each of those properties whilst living there. what matters is that at the end of each month, i have a net positive cash flow after i collect gibs from tenants/airbnb and pay the mortgage, if the property has one.

protpip: the essence of asset vs. liability isn't a noun (i.e. car = liablity; business = asset), it's a verb (i.e. is this car/house/business MAKING me money after expenses paid [asset] or LOSING me money [liability])

[Anonymous No.15714104]

>>15714075
I'm a millennial myself- I'm just commenting on the mindset that seems to have infected all of America, but most significantly the people coming of age during 2007/8. Feel free to continue acting as a pseud though, it'll definitely make you money.

[Anonymous No.15714127]

>>15713882
if by "opportunity cost" you mean a negative connotation towards me having to "put up with a tenant" or "host an airbnb", i can recommend excellent property management companies to quell your concerns :)

[Anonymous No.15714130]

>>15714095
You're renting out most of your house, so most of it is an asset. Your liability is the fraction of that house you live in i.e. your room.

[Anonymous No.15714144]

>>15714127
By opportunity cost I mean investing your money elsewhere with greater returns.
>>15714104
>Feel free to continue acting as a pseud though, it'll definitely make you money.
Ironic.

[Anonymous No.15714169]

>>15713882
>mortgages specifically refer to property loans that are collateralized by the property itself.

NO!

You can collateralize a mortgage with a completely separate property and still have it be a “mortgage”.

[Anonymous No.15714196]

>>15714169
So the bank now owns the other collateralized property in the case of a default, fine.

[Anonymous No.15714203]

>>15714076
Non dividend stocks are a liability then? Crypto is a liability?

You gain equity off appreciation retard.

[Anonymous No.15714215]

Just like don't default on your mortgage.

[Anonymous No.15714224]

>>15714075
Holy fuckin shit. You're so painfully, annoyingly stupid it hurts. Just stop.

[Anonymous No.15714236]

>>15714196
>now owns
Not how foreclosure works. If I owe $100k on a mortgage that goes tits up and it’s backed by a $500k property, the bank doesn’t just get to cop my property and come up on an extra $400k. I would be forced to liquidate or the bank buys it off me, but they don’t assume possession.

[Anonymous No.15714271]

>>15714215
Good thing that never happens.
>>15714224
Pay me and I'll stop.
>>15714236
So the bank now forces you to liquidate the collateralized property in the case of a default, fine.

[Anonymous No.15714287]

>>15714271
>Good thing that never happens.
It happens to brainlets like you.

[Anonymous No.15714297]

>>15712063
>buying homes at the top

[Anonymous No.15714308]

>>15714287
So why are you in this thread?

[Anonymous No.15714330]

>>15714130
>You're renting out most of your house, so most of it is an asset. Your liability is the fraction of that house you live in i.e. your room.
you're missing the forest for the trees, but let me play along using your...understanding: regarding properties, as long as the "You're renting out most of your house" is bigger than your "i.e. your room", then you have an asset.
you can't have something be "mostly an asset" or "a little bit liability". that's like saying your a little pregnant. it's binary.

as for >>15714144
>By opportunity cost I mean investing your money elsewhere with greater returns.
and? you speak as if it's so easy to make money outside real estate that it's an opportunity cost to own property, when real estate is a literal staple of every wealthy man's portfolio.

[Anonymous No.15714336]

>>15714297
This. You can pontificate about how great home "ownership" is, but at the end of the day, this is a bubble

[Anonymous No.15714370]

>>15714330
>you can't have something be "mostly an asset" or "a little bit liability". that's like saying your a little pregnant. it's binary.
It's what the tax code does.

>and? you speak as if it's so easy to make money outside real estate that it's an opportunity cost to own property, when real estate is a literal staple of every wealthy man's portfolio.
I never said it was easy but they do exist. Other than that, it is more ore less what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.15714372]

>>15714203
we're speaking strictly in the realm of real estate, anon.
maybe it's time to go back to your crypto threads

[Anonymous No.15714399]

>>15714336
There are a lot of cheap houses to buy in the states depending on the area but where I live in Canada, anybody that buys houses with a 10-20 year mortgage are retarded.

[Anonymous No.15714420]

>>15714308
To laugh at retards who actually think that owning land and home is a bad thing.

[Anonymous No.15714442]

>>15714420
Wrong thread then, my friend.

[Anonymous No.15714450]

>>15714271
>So the bank now forces you to liquidate the collateralized property in the case of a default, fine.

Which is nowhere near the same as the bank “owning” your property

>>15714372
You completely missed the point. Real estate generates equity returns on appreciation the same way stocks, crypto, and virtually every other asset class does. Few asset classes actually generate cash flow, that doesn’t make them any less of an asset.

[Anonymous No.15714463]

>>15714370
>It's what the tax code does.
are we arguing semantics or trying to open our minds?
you can list your car as an asset too. "It's what the tax code does."

to anyone reading thinking about real estate: before you listen to the fear-mongers indoctrinated with fear themselves about owning real estate, ask them if they own cash flow producing property to be having such an opinion.

[Anonymous No.15714467]

>>15714442
No, I'm right at home. Lots of retards ITT sperging about mortgages. lmao.

[Anonymous No.15714497]

>>15714463
>are we arguing semantics or trying to open our minds?
We're arguing that items like property can be partially assets, partially liabilities and not binary like you say it is.

[Anonymous No.15714505]

>>15714450
>You completely missed the point. Real estate generates equity returns on appreciation the same way stocks, crypto, and virtually every other asset class does.

nobody's arguing with you that stocks and crypto aren't an asset.

> Few asset classes actually generate cash flow, that doesn’t make them any less of an asset.
uhhmm...okay? you're right, it doesn't make them any less an asset. but, like you yourself admitted, "Few asset classes actually generate cash flow"...and real estate is one of them.

why does this make you so upset?
there's no reason you cannot begin your real estate empire if you haven't already.

[Anonymous No.15714539]

>>15714144
>Ironic.
Ironic.

[Anonymous No.15714549]

>>15714497
>property can be partially assets, partially liabilities and not binary like you say it is.
so when you fill out your balance sheet, do you write your semi-kinda-little bit-income producing properties on the ASSETS side or LIABILITIES?
may i ask you an honest question: you seem to be very steadfast in your understanding of real estate assets. do you own some yourself?

[Anonymous No.15714552]

>>15714539
This but unironically.

[Anonymous No.15714556]

>>15714552
>This but unironically.

[Anonymous No.15714572]

>>15714549
You list the property but put it at the fractional value, as I've said before.
I've considered owning some and done my research, but like I said, I currently have better opportunities. Maybe later in the future.

[Anonymous No.15714583]

>>15714556
This but ironically.

[Anonymous No.15714595]

>>15714583
>This but ironically.

[Anonymous No.15714601]

>>15712019
There literally is no other way of paying for a home without a mortgage unless you're rich

[Anonymous No.15714612]

>>15714595
This but post-ironically.

[Anonymous No.15714759]

>>15714612
>This but post-ironically.

[Anonymous No.15714810]

>>15714759
This.

[Anonymous No.15714815]

>>15712019

I have tried to tell my parents not to buy that property down the street for 130k€ Jesus christ its like they are fearing something and want to lose money.
I'd better off investing it in dividends stocks where i only have to pay premiums and small amount of tax but no maintenance cost or so on.

but i guess at the end boomers are loving buying the top

[Anonymous No.15714819]

>>15714810
>This.

[Anonymous No.15714833]

>>15712251
HoAs never expire and real estate developers love them because they get to inflate prices

[Anonymous No.15714912]

>>15712057
USSA confirmed as literally just one step away from gulags
>>15712174
>everyone is the equivalent of a feudal serf
The modern American serf is actually worse off because there's not even a single lord you can go to to complain, just a faceless, inscrutable and unaccountable bureaucracy made of millions of moving parts.
>In b4 "b-b-b-but Uber Eats and Netflix"

[Anonymous No.15714996]

/out/ here. I own my bugout bag and all of its contents. The woods are my home, and they wont he taken from me in my life time. I eat better than you faggots too.

[Anonymous No.15715035]

>>15712019
People always complain about wealth taxes but they think property taxes are fine. What's the difference? Property is just a form of wealth.

[Anonymous No.15715098]

>>15712076
based /bizfit/ poster

[Anonymous No.15715533]

>>15714450
>>15714463
>>15714370
Lads
i have 30k in the bank 30k in stocks, i amke 65k a year

any advice on getting into real estate?
down payment, apr, tax speciic shit, cost range of first house?

[Anonymous No.15715687]

>>15714075
>you can't afford
If you can't afford it get a cheaper one, save up more, or increase your income you mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.15715814]

>>15715533
down payment?
assuming this is your first home you're going to go after an FHA Loan. Only 3.5% down. You're going to want a multi-unit, at least a duplex. One unit you rent to cover the mortgage (+ more possibly), one you live in (regardless of what no-homers here say, this is not a liability).

apr?
dependent on your credit score and shopping around for bankers (DEFINITELY shop around for bankers). Interest rates are low af right now, so don't sweat it too much.

tax speciic shit?
taxes/laws are another beast. you're new, focus on your frontfacing side of the business right now (your property/tenants), hire a tax jew and a law jew (yes, jewish) to handle that until you're ready to delve in on your own.

cost range of first house?
dependent on your salary (which it solid at 65k, nice) and your MONTHLY debt/expenses. Once you've shopped around for that dope banker we were talking about before, he'll talk you through specifics should you need to pay down debt to secure the loan.

Worry less about overall cost of the property, worry about CASHFLOW. Ask the seller for income statement on the duplex/triplex. If there are tenants already living there, you can claim this rent to count towards your income to allow yourself to buy more house. Just don't buy more house just because, only do it if it allows you to greater CASH FLOW (i.e. stretch to buy the triplex over the duplex AS LONG AS IT CASH FLOWS BETTER...and it should, a la economy of scale)

whatever you do, JUST DO IT.
it's not a meme, the hardest part is pulling the trigger on the first one...and the good deals your looking for WILL go fast. Be ready, you got this ;)

[Anonymous No.15715849]

>>15715814
shit man, that was extremely helpful.
Thanks alot my brother!

[Anonymous No.15715855]

>>15715533
>>15715814
>>15715849
Any more ideas, advice would be great though.

[Anonymous No.15715859]

>>15712716
What kind of properties are they? Apartments or houses?

[Anonymous No.15715888]

>>15715814
oh and an fha loan means 3.5 down.. and you said interest rates are low?
how low do you think i should go for?

[Anonymous No.15715988]

>>15715849
>>15715855
no worries, i love helping those willing to listen.
i was in the same ignorant position a few years ago, your humbleness and lust for information will get you places I promise.


other ideas in the same vein, research the airbnb industry in your town. i live in what most would consider a very small town, but i make sure to offer the most premium airbnb experience over everyone else so that i can charge a premium. i GROSS profit the highest from airbnb monthly, but i had to buy a premium house (with a larger price tag) to create the business.

also research Section 8 and low-income housing. as much as you'll hate to hear this, the cheap house i bought in the shitty part of town nets me the most NET profit, because i could literally buy it cash.

duplex was the most recent purchase. not profitable yet until i finish the last unit, but i'm already loving the economy of scale that comes with multi-family. that's why i recommend that first. would have been much less stressful starting with 2 units for the first house...but i was poor and stupid back then.

[Anonymous No.15716010]

>>15715888
the lowest you can find.
(remember how important shopping for your banker is...this is a very important relationship to build. a (((good))) banker will bend things to make things happen for you...because he knows when you make the txn, he makes $$)

[Anonymous No.15716048]

>>15715988
excellent.
would you say buying in cash even if you cant isnt the best idea?

[Anonymous No.15716066]

>>15712019
buying a home, or many homes with a mortgage at the bottom of a crash is objectively the smartest thing someone can do. the problem comes when everyone buys the top of the bubble instead.

[Anonymous No.15716081]

>>15712019
OP lives in an apartement.

[Anonymous No.15716104]

Will also leave this tip here. Try to buy rental properties off the market (work directly with seller before they place on market) or approach the seller saying I'm willing to buy as is only if you sign the purchase agreement now. You can also try foreclosures / auctions as a last resort.
Basically don't get sucked into a bidding war if there are other interested buyers. Your job is to avoid this.

[Anonymous No.15716107]

>>15716048
with interest rates historically retardedly low (and that's an understatement), i would be borrowing this cheap money, not using cash...keep that on hand for property repair/rainy day. i know this sounds counter-intuitive because FUCK DEBT, but if you do your homework (making sure the income statement CASHFLOWS), there is no reason to assume a bit more risk. i mean where else/when else can you borrow a quarter million $$+ at a ******~4%****** interest rate? what a time to be alive..

[Anonymous No.15716118]

>>15716104
Do you ask for a loan from the bank before you find a house you like?

[Anonymous No.15716130]

>>15716104
i'm just beginning to learn about this.
would love to hear more about it from an expert as yourself.
you got a burner email or discord to talk?

[Anonymous No.15716132]

Any good?

[Anonymous No.15716141]

>>15716107
i thoguht 4% was kind of high for the last 15 years or so?
You're saying interest rates are actually pretty good right now?
i thoguht everyone was syaing theyre not evry good?

[Anonymous No.15716142]

>I can't ever own by own home because I'm a neet who has no money hmmmm how do I solve this dilema? I've got it let me just make a cope thread and have other useless neets agree with me! Ahhhh now I feel so much better even though I've obese!
>*Eats cheetos.*

[Anonymous No.15716146]

>>15716118
yes.
any realtor/seller worth their weight will not waste their time showing you their property without a pre-approval letter from your lender.

[Anonymous No.15716160]

>>15716141
you tell me
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=NUh

[Anonymous No.15716176]

>I can't ever own my own home because I'm a neet who has no money hmmmm how do I solve this dilema? I've got it let me just make a cope thread and have other useless neets agree with me! Ahhhh now I feel so much better even though I'm still obese.
>*Eats cheetos.*
> *Picks nose and eats it.*

[Anonymous No.15716197]

>>15716160
i see. funny the talk around it has sounded pretty negative.

so i have excellent credit.
Should i not settle for anyhting over the current 3.73
and generally anyhting under 4% is pretty desirable for this endeavor?

[Anonymous No.15716254]

>>15716197
> funny the talk around it has sounded pretty negative.
this negativity comes from the same people in this thread saying an income-generating property is a bad idea. it's sour grapes for them. cope. "they hate us cause they ain't us".

but yeah 4% will be the high end. at the end of the day if you're second-guess yourself, ask yourself what other opportunities in life do you get to borrow any amount of money for only 4 fucking %? And a quarter milli at that...

AKA worry more about getting those good deals that >>15716104 spoke about than the noise of historically low interest rates.

[Anonymous No.15716289]

>>15713133

[Anonymous No.15716294]

>>15716104
>>15716254
What do you mean by this though?
find sellers before theyre looking to sell?

[Anonymous No.15716302]

>>15716254
>this negativity comes from the same people in this thread saying an income-generating property is a bad idea.
Are you essential saying that there are people on 4chan that give bad advice because they are jealous of you? Big if true.

[Anonymous No.15716329]

Another question lads

lets say you buy a duplex, and you got a few new incomes coming through..
how easy is it to get another house? an even bigger mortgage?

[Anonymous No.15716335]

>>15716294
yes, and that's where you creative (like those WE BUY HOUSES CASH signs...they dont work, oversaturated)
i'm still trying to learn about this from a mentor right now so i'm sorry i can't be of much help in that regard

[Anonymous No.15716347]

>>15712019
Yo holy shit this lmao

[Anonymous No.15716352]

>>15716329
much easier.
because now you can claim rent as income, further snowballing your empire should you spend all this extra new income on more homes like a good little jew

[Anonymous No.15716358]

>>15712063
Yeah it sucks having your own place and a family. Come upstairs anon, we miss you.

[Anonymous No.15716363]

>>15716335
cool.

How much profit are you making if you dont mind me asking?
how expensive was your property.. how much is your monthly exp vs income?

[Anonymous No.15716375]

>>15713157
Depends where you buy and where you sell. If you retire in a crash you’re fucked

[Anonymous No.15716386]

>>15712314
Hoa houses are rare? You must live in a super cucked area

[Anonymous No.15716420]

>>15716363
i'm not profitable...on paper.
and neither will you be!
because your hired jew tax attorney will make sure every last bit of "profit" goes towards expenses.
that dinner last night? expensed, since your were "dining your banker"
that new couch you wanted? EXPENSED, since it's for your "home office"
all of this because you are now a 24/7 business
unironically EVERYthing you buy will be expensed so its not taxed as profit.

this means you will literally be living on tax free income forever
and no, i'm not kidding...this is the shit you'll learn along the way they didn't us sheep in the schooling system (but they do in private schools/old money families)

[Anonymous No.15716452]

>>15716420
amazing.
so after all of that, about how much are you making?
You're paying off your mortgage.. and how much more?

[Anonymous No.15716484]

>>15716452
it's going right back into my empire. i'm still living as frugally as before my first house purchase. i'll only start truly taking profit once my total monthly cashflow far exceeds all of the monthly expenses i wish to indulge in (AKA retirement)
you should strongly consider the same.

[Anonymous No.15716514]

>>15716484
can you explain this part to me a little more?

so lets say you have 2k in expenses a month- mortgage and utilities..
and lets say you bring in 1600 in rent.. and you pay the other 400 to complete your mortgage payments..
how do taxes get involved here?
since i make 65k at my other job - is the money im taxed on that go down?
Are these taxes that you get back every tax season..?
is it simply that i was making 2k a year on tax returns and now ill make 10k?

[Anonymous No.15716527]

>>15716452
i'm not trying to be secretive or esoteric either
a large paradigm shift you'll soon have is from seeing money as a dollar amount. money is just a means to transfer value. The value is not in the number. The number on paper or screen is quite literally worthless...it's the things we buy that give it value. Quite backwards of how we're taught in school...

[Anonymous No.15716563]

>>15716452
The mortgage equity IS the profit my dude. I think your the same $30k anon I talked to yesterday.

[Anonymous No.15716568]

>>15712019

I don't feel like I own shit as long as I have to pay property taxes. Fucking theft.

>Hurrrr pay us or we'll take your home.

[Anonymous No.15716573]

>>15716514
>since i make 65k at my other job - is the money im taxed on that go down?
without going down a (very interesting) rabbit hole...as long as you are an employee under someone, you will ALWAYS be taxed by the government. it's the law.
this is not true for rich people. they make sure their income is not taxed. but their income is not from an employer, it's from their investments. and the rich have spent a great deal of time and money lobbying in goverments to make sure it stays that way.

i know this makes no sense, as you'll have to unlearn everything you thought you know about money as a poor person, and relearn.

unironically read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
the information in that book is not a meme, and will explain it better than i can on 4chan

[Anonymous No.15716589]

>>15716568
that's a very defeatist attitude, anon.
you should be asking yourself how you can generate an income from the property that will cover such expenses.
expenses will always be there, it's all about how you tackle them.

[Anonymous No.15716614]

>>15716568
yes sir, im just trying to wrap my head around the taxes part.
i understand that equity is the profit.. im jus talking about where writing shit off comes into play

>>15716573
awesome, i will.
but like i said above.. how does writing things off work in what would be my case?
do you file taxes every quarter and get some back?

[Anonymous No.15716638]

>>15712091
>living in a Mcdevelopment
Nah. If I ever get a home I'm doing it out in hill/farm country where my HOA is half drunk folk with shotguns whose main rule is
>Don't be strayin onto muh land uninvited unless it's to ask for some shine or tell me the revenuers is a comin

[Anonymous No.15716648]

>>15716614
>how does writing things off work in what would be my case?
in the case of the 65k you're earning as an employee? absolutely not. it's against the law for employees not to pay their 40% to the government.

as a business owner you will soon learn that things are very different for we business owners...we employers. knowledge = money = power

[Anonymous No.15716699]

>>15716648
ok.. so i think i have this correct.
Basically you're saying you're making income on Rent, and that income is not getting taxed.. since you can write off all potential taxes on your income?
So if you made 20,000 in rent, and were going to be taxed 20% by the gov, you cna fofset that 20% with write offs.
is that the basics?

[Anonymous No.15716713]

>>15716699
You got it anon!
Ofc there's much more nuance, but you've got the right head for this shit.
Jump in.

[Anonymous No.15716735]

>>15716713
thanks man.

a side question.. how do you afford to expand without cash profit?
lets say you're losing 400 a month on property 1, then expand to property 2 where you're taking another 400 a month cash loss..

[Anonymous No.15716893]

>>15716735
Bump on this? Great conversation

[Anonymous No.15716900]

>>15712209
HOA's just get in the way.

>>15712213
Wrong. If enough neighbors decide to make an hoa even if you dont want one the government will allow it to be created.

[Anonymous No.15716955]

>>15716735
i don't wanna come off as a smart ass,
but you're not doing your due diligence/risk management if you're losing money on 2 different properties consistently....you have much bigger concerns on hand than how to buy another house (in fact, i'd be racking my brain to figure out how the fuck i'm behind on 2 properties)

your fear is subconsciously instilling that thought in your head. your mindset should be "how can i make as certain as possible that i don't lose money on this deal", and that is due diligence and continued education. Never stop learning.

[Anonymous No.15716997]

>>15716735
>how do you afford to expand without cash profit?
sorry, if this q was pertaining to my personal situation:
i am not "profitable"
and you shouldn't be either
remember, all "profit" goes back into the empire as an EXPENSE, whether that be a dinner date, washing machine, new home, or down payment.

[Anonymous No.15717001]

>>15716614
>write offs
You compartmentalize your entire life into your “business”. You don’t have a truck, the company has a truck. You don’t have a phone, the company has a phone. And the company pays for all these things with the “profits” you make in the attempt to not “make” any money at all, at least on paper. You keep all the equity into the company and only pay yourself a “salary” when you actually need the money. Look up S type corporations and income splitting.

Yes you will be filing a 1099 every quarter.

[Anonymous No.15717022]

>>15717001
THIS, said much better in one post than i've done in an entire thread

[Anonymous No.15717024]

How are the housing prices rising when the amount of young people is falling?

[Anonymous No.15717041]

>>15712076
fucking hell was it that hard to invent the leg press

[Anonymous No.15717043]

>>15716735
Leverage against the equity of your properties. Having a 300k house you own only 150k on will let you expand out.

[Anonymous No.15717050]

>>15716955
But didnt you say earlier you wont be making profit for a while or not at all and this still is a benefit?
Like, if youre mortgage is 2k and you bring in 1600 in rent, you're still putting 400 cash monthly to cover the difference.
According to the argument, youre not losing in the long run, obviously, but youre still putting out cash monthly until the rent is higher than the mortgage, no?

Exactly. What you just wrote here
>>15716997
You're building, but you need more available cash to expand to another property correct?

>>15717001
Right right, i think i understand this much.
I was just asking how do you expand if you need to pay more expenses for a new property.

[Anonymous No.15717056]

>>15717024
Low interest rates jack up house prices.

[Anonymous No.15717061]

>bought an apartment in the city
>I rent it out
>I live with my parents for free

[Anonymous No.15717062]

>>15717043
Ok. But you're taking on more immediate debt, no?
I was paying 400 a month for property 1, not another 400 for property 2.

[Anonymous No.15717072]

>>15717024
Cheap debt and chinks

[Anonymous No.15717075]

>>15717024
population grows, housing prices go up
you're right, somebody's gotta be buying these houses for this population to live in
i wonder if it is the goyim population doing all the buying or their landlords?

[Anonymous No.15717086]

>>15717062
Now another 400*

Or is the obvious answer dont expand until your cash profitable on your rentals?

[Anonymous No.15717106]

>>15717075
population is not growing
again
who is your renter
who why pay when there are no jobs
who will give a fuck when there are no people and just niggers

[Anonymous No.15717121]

>>15717050
>But didnt you say earlier you wont be making profit for a while or not at all and this still is a benefit?
correct. i won't be profitable (ON PAPER)
don't confuse the idea that not being profitable = being poor
i dont want to be profitable
neither do you
why?
because we're TAXED on profit.


>Like, if youre mortgage is 2k and you bring in 1600 in rent, you're still putting 400 cash monthly to cover the difference.
That would never happen. Why would you buy a property like that that isn't cash flow positive? please don't take deals like that. remember...due diligence, KNOWLEDGE KNOW YOUR MARKET

>According to the argument, youre not losing in the long run, obviously, but youre still putting out cash monthly until the rent is higher than the mortgage, no?
no sir, see above.

[Anonymous No.15717130]

>>15717106
>Buy small apartments
>Rent them out for big bucks
>Immigrants pay with government funded money

You now understand why (((they))) push for migration into 1'st world nations. It's not some replacement thing, it's about real estate value

[Anonymous No.15717131]

>>15717106
>population is not growing
.....
i'm sorry, i can't have a conversation on such a false premise

[Anonymous No.15717138]

>>15712066
This. You never own any property

[Anonymous No.15717152]

>>15712653
>blaming other people

You will never be free anon

[Anonymous No.15717166]

>>15717138
that's just it, anon.
it doesn't fucking matter.
what matters is the money (CASHFLOW) you make along the way while the BANK owns the property all along!
seriously :^D

[Anonymous No.15717183]

>>15717062
You can’t think of it like debt, it’s leverage. The ratio of how much you have outstanding on a loan to how much equity you have in a house(s) should stay relatively the same.

So you buy a house with a $100k mortgage, rent it out for a while and let appreciation do its thing. After 2-3 years you now have a $150k home you only owe $50k on (exaggerated numbers for the sake of example). You would have to go out and buy a $200k home to be in the same leverage position as when you first started ($100k in the hole).

Always frame your “debt” in the context of your net worth.

[Anonymous No.15717188]

>>15717121
Ok ok ok.
Ive heard arguements that say even if youre at a negative cash flow for years its still a good idea.

Ok im clear, thanks again brotha.

[Anonymous No.15717198]

>bank owns the property and you don't make any money off it
>bank owns the property and you do make money off it

pick 1 retards

[Anonymous No.15717221]

>>15717062
That $400 goes straight to principle. Your tenant covers all your taxes and interest as well as some of your principle. The amount of principle contribution from your tenant goes up due to amortization schedules and rent hikes. You have positive equity growth but not positive cash flow. This situation is typical when you first start a rental and it can take a couple years before rent hikes put you cash flow positive.

[Anonymous No.15717245]

>>15713167
he wants to use the money other than for the mortgage. Using a loan outside its intended purpose is considered fraud

[Anonymous No.15717252]

>>15717183
>>15717221
Awesome. Thats what i was thinking
Thank you

[Anonymous No.15717255]

>>15717221
damn i must be naively living in a bubble of affordable real estate, are you actually cash flow negative out of the gates when you purchase a rental? even after renovations i can still at least make enough off rents to cover the entirety of the mortgages.

[Anonymous No.15717307]

>>15717255
The market where I live is hot and I like maintaining liquidity so I eat higher interest rates and payments so I don’t have to put up as much up front capital. Saving my liquidity for a commercial property desu.