>employee makes fifty $5 sandwiches in an hour >is only entitled to $10.00 an hour Wageslaves will defend this shit.

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Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:36:21 2019 No.13421888 [Reply] [Original]

>employee makes fifty $5 sandwiches in an hour
>is only entitled to $10.00 an hour
Wageslaves will defend this shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:37:49 2019 No.13421897 >liberals say they are entitled to $15 People actually argue over this

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:38:17 2019 No.13421899 >>13421888 Work out the other outgoings for the business first before we waste our time on you

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:38:39 2019 No.13421902 >>13421888 did he pay for any of the sandwich materials? or regulatory food liscences? or the venue to sell the food? does this wagie have any former experience other than jacking his weeny? thought not.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:38:45 2019 No.13421905
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>>13421888
If you really don't see how the retard slapping the meat on the bread is the person bringing the absolute least value to this enterprise, you don't even deserve $10 an hour...

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:38:47 2019 No.13421906 >>13421888 wow mind is blown, he should earn $250 right?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:40:51 2019 No.13421915 >>13421888 Unfortunately there are more people than sandwiches in the world and your boss doesn't see a reduction in supply going down anytime soon, so he won't pay you any more for your time. You are nothing more than a commodity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:42:04 2019 No.13421922 >>13421915 That being said, profits are unpaid wages. Fight me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:42:21 2019 No.13421926 File: 90 KB, 500x628, 1555245089128.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >create a hundred dollars of value >get paid $10 while Mr. Shekelberg keeps $90 >have to pay $1 of taxes on the $10 >anarchocucks will still complain that taxation is theft

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:43:16 2019 No.13421931 What's overhead and profit? Also who is taking the risk? Also how many other people are lined up to do your job?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:43:35 2019 No.13421934

>>13421888
Likely makes about 20 an hour, if that. So 20x10= $200.
> sandwich materials cost half
= $100
> pay shop lease, bills, equipment maintenance
= $50
> cleaners, backroom workers, potentially security
= $30
So that's what you have left. You're then saying the school drop out who puts lettuce between precut slices should be paid as much, at least, as the owner.

75% of cafes and restaurants fail in their first year. Profit margins are tiny.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:44:51 2019 No.13421940 >>13421934 Just realize i calculated for double price sandwiches. So even less margin if we do your price unless we allow for an unrealistic 50 an hour.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:45:36 2019 No.13421945 >>13421888 If that’s the case, why work for mr shekelburg? Go open your own sandwich shop and rake in $250 an hour

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:46:22 2019 No.13421949 >>13421888 >>13421922 >>13421926 read an economics textbook or better yet a philosophy book on the human nature

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:49:18 2019 No.13421965 >>13421888 Go make me sandwich, bitch! I bet OP didn't even make the whole sandwich! He just spreads so analogue of butter on bread then passes it to the lettuce engineer.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:51:17 2019 No.13421973 >>13421888 Please stay in school.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:54:01 2019 No.13421986

>>13421926
>>create a hundred dollars of value

You didn't buy the ingredients. You didn't pay the rent. You didn't pay the lisence fees or the business expenses. You didn't pay for the insurance. You didn't pay for marketing to attract customers. You didn't create value, you just put some bits of it together.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 07:55:55 2019 No.13421996 Read the bread book

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:00:13 2019 No.13422015

>>13421922
The risk of the investment is on the business owner. You as a drone have no 10 mil debt to pay for the loan taken for this business... Hence you don't deserve profits...

But let me be less cocky to you mate, try opening a business, hire some wetback and you be the judge of what will happen when the poor fellow asks you for raises

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:04:09 2019 No.13422040
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>>13421986
As an engineer I create millions of dollars of value but still get paid just a few thousand. If it weren't for me there wouldn't even be a product to sell in the first place.

>>13421949
>hurr durr read economics
hahahahahahaha oh good one

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:09:25 2019 No.13422074
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1. The sandwiches themselves aren't free, you frickin' dummy
2. Even if the one employee is the sole responsible party in making the sandwiches, there are many other employees that facilitate the transaction, I've seen upwards of three employees at the front taking orders with two or more employees at the windows bagging and preparing the food for drive through customers, one employee cleaning up the awful mess the subhuman customers make and so on
3. Property taxes, payroll taxes, franchise fees etc.

>>13421922
>profits are unpaid wages
>a CEO at a multinational corporation with two million employees on its payroll is immoral for reaping a few dollars net a year per employee
>the government is good for taking thousands of dollars from these same people in the form of taxes and miscellaneous fees like automobile tabs, licenses and so on and forcing them into a cage at gunpoint if they don't comply

Grow up

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:10:11 2019 No.13422081 >>13422074 >taking the bait Anon, I...

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:11:38 2019 No.13422090 >>13421905 This

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:11:52 2019 No.13422094 >>13421888 >the baker of the bread is entitled to nothing >the butcher of the ham is entitled to nothing >the farmer of the tomatoes is entitled to nothing >the delivery man? Don’t make me laugh Absolut WASTE of trips

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:15:04 2019 No.13422118 >>13422074 Cant believe it, but yes the goyim defend their slavery. I don't sympathize with them anymore.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:16:18 2019 No.13422123 >>13422094 They already got paid when the materials were paid for though. The materials cost $150 and the sandwiches sold for $250.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:18:16 2019 No.13422137

>>13422118
so I guess you are OK with giving ALL the money for the sandwich to the guy who makes it, and none to anyone else along the long long supply road who contributed to the contents of that sandwich.

Good goy, keep pontificating from your high horse while screwing the little man - precisely what we've been teaching you at schools, unis, and through media for the last 50 years.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:22:30 2019 No.13422165

>>13422123
hello, HELLO - what about rent for the premises where the sandwich is being made, what about electricity cost, what about equipment cost (refrigerators and so on) what about cleaning and sanitation costs and the myriad of other compliance costs the business has to foot just to be able to operate. And that does not include the cost of financing the business - all this money to get the place up and running has to come from somewhere - either personal savings of the owner/shareholder who could've been earning interest on it instead, or a bank loan which as you've probably guessed carries an interest which is a cost to the business. All this comes BEFORE the business is able to pay the workers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:22:49 2019 No.13422167 >>13422040 Then why don't you create your own company, retard? Wouldn't you make millions?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:23:28 2019 No.13422173

>>13422137
>so I guess you are OK with giving ALL the money for the sandwich to the guy who makes it, and none to anyone else along the long long supply road who contributed to the contents of that sandwich.

Yeah they're called small business owners basically.

>Good goy

Defending $10/hr wage slavery. Calls me a goy. Seriously fuck off. Cattle are stupid. I don't sympathize with them anymore. They exist to be exploited by the most evil pieces of shit on earth. They only empower the most evil people they can possibly seek out and benefit, but resist common sense and doing the right thing or anything good.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:25:20 2019 No.13422191

>>13422173
are you actually really this stupid or are just pretending?

Start your own fucking sandwich shop and start paying your employees $100 and hour, see how you fare and them come here to impart your wisdom.

What a fuckwit! No wonder the world is going to the shitter, when idiots like this have voting rights.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:25:23 2019 No.13422193 >>13422040 so what's stopping you from making millions of dollars?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:25:26 2019 No.13422195 >>13422040 >read something? educate myself? pfffftttt >hahahahahahaha oh good one this is why you're retarded

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:27:27 2019 No.13422205

>>13422191
Dude you are a piece of shit who makes life worse for everyone around you.

You don't need to pay $100 per hour. You can pay $10 per hour and add a 25 cent bonus per sandwich made or something. Common sense rewards people who work. This is why nobody wants to work. Everyone wants to leave america.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:28:53 2019 No.13422214 >>13422205 you seem to have the recipe for success right there, so go, start your own business, abide by your superior morals and show us all idiots how millionaires are made.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:28:56 2019 No.13422216 >>13422205 > Everyone wants to leave america Hahahahahha. Im not american but everyone sees the hordes of browns bursting down your doors to get in.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:30:11 2019 No.13422224 >>13422205 you are utterly clueless lol >Common sense rewards people who work what do you think a wage is? read a book you tard

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:31:40 2019 No.13422236

>>13422216
Which is why the smart young people also want to leave.

>>13422214
I have a small business, which is hurting because everyone is losing their jobs or just don't want to work anymore, so less and less people can afford services. I've had to give discounts multiple times to stay in business.

Because corporations deserve all that profit while paying the same wage as in 1980, but the dollar has decreased in value.

I despise people like you who defend those billionaire monsters. What a god damn retard. Can't you be their personal slave and leave the rest of us alone?

>>13422224
Retard. Wages don't motivate people by the hour.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:34:29 2019 No.13422253 It's hilarious how the marxists all get quiet when it's time to pay the bills

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:34:39 2019 No.13422256 >>13421902 How much would the company make without the worker? Nothing. Fuck off

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:34:52 2019 No.13422258 >>13421888 > Employee provided 0 raw materials > Employee does not own location > Employee does not have specialized skill, just makes sandwiches > Employee incurred 0 total risk > Thinks he deserve even $10 Mfw

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:36:36 2019 No.13422269
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>>13422236
>his business is hurting because of "reasons" and not because he's an imbecile that doesn't understand how basic economics work
color me surprised

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:37:17 2019 No.13422274
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>>13421888
If hes the only employee, and the material used in making those sandwiches is dirt cheap he should definitely negotiate for a higher salary, maybe even double what he makes now. Theres more than enough space leftover there to fund business expansion, CEO pay, and shareholder pay.
However if the reality is that a team of 5 workers each getting paid $10 an hour made fifty $5 sandwiches in one hour altogether, only sold twenty of those sandwiches, and had to throw out the rest, theres not much room to argue for wage increases. Half the revenue is going to wages already. There still needs to be enough room to keep a competent CEO and management team on board, fund corporate expansion, fund dividends if investor relations is a lifeblood of the company, and pay the tax man.
In such a situation, workers should literally make a preemptive bargaining agreement with management regarding a locked future pay increase relative to overall profit increases for the company, and then shill their asses off so that they can ensure they sell all fifty sandwiches within an hour.
Claim your stake on an ungrown pie and then grow the pie.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:38:39 2019 No.13422281 >>13422269 ew, go live in a communist state you piece of shit. garbage. That's why Im leaving america. Endless drones who demand we are all enslaved with them.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:50:07 2019 No.13422387
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>>13422173
Again, you're literally more angry at the people voluntarily paying a person's wages than the people taking this same person's money away at gunpoint lmao. Where's your consistency fren?

The average corporation makes 8% net profit, while governments more often than not run a huge deficit despite having a large stake in all legal economic activity in including sales made, income paid and services rendered. Explain to me how a company is a thief for not giving enough, while a government is beneficent for taking as much as it can get away with and throwing anyone who resists in a gorilla cage?

Either way, make sure to keep paying your tuition fees for the next 20 years goy, just remember it's the business owners' fault you're poor, not the government that's been taxing your balls off or your university's admissions staff who've been billing you $400 a month since 2011

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:52:12 2019 No.13422407
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>>13422281
why would I go live a communist state, retard? I'm not the one who advocates paying wageslaves more than they are worth. The joke went over your head cause you're not very smart and you don't understand economics. Your FAILED business is proof of that. You're basically just a loser who tried to be a big boy but failed spectacularly because of low IQ and rudimentary understanding of economics. You should also kill yourself once you realize what a waste you are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:53:33 2019 No.13422418 >>13421888 >employee needs their ability to create value fully facilitated >gets what the position is worth >position becomes less valuable as society advances >want more money Complacency is a bitch

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 08:58:07 2019 No.13422459 >>13422387 >>13422407 I will never feel sympathy for goyim again. They are the deciders of their own slavery which is fine, but also they push to enslave others, which is not fine. The jews are right about these human cattle.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:01:10 2019 No.13422484 File: 18 KB, 183x200, 1506358824823.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13422459

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:02:50 2019 No.13422495 File: 76 KB, 790x444, 8FD4F78F-6018-4941-9ADA-C96ABDB7578F.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13422459 Not an argument

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:04:08 2019 No.13422505

>>13422387
If the government runs a deficite its because it spends more money for the people than it takes away. The average person gets more out of public services than his tax is worth, unless there is massive corruption or mismanagement happening. In which case the problem is corruption and mismanagement and not taxation

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:04:27 2019 No.13422508 >>13421888 He's lucky he's not paid with sandwiches

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:08:40 2019 No.13422531 how much do the mats cost? How much is the rent? The electricity? Cost of appliances? How much is the benefits paid to the employee like healthcare, 401k etc.? Tbere is a lot that goes into funding a wageslave doing their work.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:08:49 2019 No.13422532
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>>13422505
I was actually going to say as much in that post, citing Norway as an example of "bad surplus" ($195,000 per citizen, lool) but I got lazy, I was more alluding to the inefficiency of government itself despite basically getting free money at every level of economic activity in contrast to businesses that involve risk management and often (but not always) operate at slimmer margins than are commonly understood.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:11:46 2019 No.13422548

>>13422418
Does he get what his position is worth? Or can the owners of the means of production dictate the salaries, since there is a huge power imbalance? Sure i can start my own buisness, but without startup capital i can only start something thats profitable immediately or starve. Sure i can start creating cloth, but a clothmaking machine (which i wont be able to afford) dumps the prices, making my work hours much less valuable. Change will only happen if workers band together and use their collective power to oppose the power of capitalists, general strikes created the modern livingstandards of the workingclass. Today most people are still too content to risk anything, but thats already slowly changing again

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:12:49 2019 No.13422554 >>13421905 What are you gonna sell otherwise goldberg? Air buns?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:21:17 2019 No.13422599

>>13421888
It's called surplus labor.

In addition, in restauration, surplus labor is not so big.

In industry fields were productivity is very high, the rate of capital gain, which is surplus labor / necessary labor, is often way higher, indeed, in such activities, the surplus labor can be hundreds of time bigger than necessary labor.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:23:41 2019 No.13422615 >>13421905 Goldberg sells bagels.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:23:59 2019 No.13422620 ok i'll pay you 15 dollars to suck my dick

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:36:35 2019 No.13422707

>>13421902

>>13421905

Make the same calculation with fixed capital, and surplus labor should still be higher than necessary labor.

Capital = fixed capital + Wages + Profit.

The capitalist take away the profit.

But the profit is the portion of work he didn't pay the worker.

So he paid his means of production (tools, rent, machines etc...), the price of the market.

But the worker wasn't paid a fair price. The worker was paid way less than he indeed produced.

Capitalism is a scam for the worker. Everything is exchanged in fair prices on the market, except labor.

Wagie sells his work, necessary labor, the price needed to renew his work force (pay his food, his rent...), but when the amount of work needed to renew his work force is attained, he works for free for the capitalist, thus enriching him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:43:38 2019 No.13422752 File: 12 KB, 200x200, 8015207C-4722-483D-B3CC-78BC7166A45E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13422707 >reddit spacing

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:44:12 2019 No.13422754

>>13422707
Everything in capitalism is exchanged in fair prices, as long as supply and demand apply regularly. But like drinking water and air the demand doesnt really change with changing prices. Even if the salaries are extremely low, people still need to make a living. Thats why, along with monopoly laws, the government had to create stuff like minimum wages after the industrial revolution

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:46:14 2019 No.13422768 >>13421945 You fucking racist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:47:23 2019 No.13422781 File: 510 KB, 1085x775, 32324324.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >all these triggered wagecucks defending their cuckery toplmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:48:51 2019 No.13422790 wendys chef here you faggots can't even make a spicy chicken sandwich i make $200k a year and have a 13 inch dick which I stick in the mayonaise jar

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:50:51 2019 No.13422802 File: 94 KB, 600x767, tcwp3xnsewo21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13422195 If economics is real, then why can't economists agree on the laws of economics?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:51:54 2019 No.13422809 Millenials are so entitled they want to be paid 100x more than now for putting a few ingredients together. The reason your wages are low is because you're so easily replaceable by a different retard who can also put a few ingredients together.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 09:56:20 2019 No.13422838 The wage cuck hasnt taken a loan from a bank tho

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:01:10 2019 No.13422876
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>>13422802
was he wrong in the image?
i mean how much does most people know about how much the internet has impacted "the economy"? people buy more online and less offline, how much did that move "the economy"?

and the fax machine had a huge impact in society, did it not? how could its effects have been measured in "the economy"? and if it was big, and the internet was big, then both had the same impact.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:01:58 2019 No.13422882 >>13422256 The worker... Who agreed to work at $10/hr fuck off

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:09:33 2019 No.13422949 >>13422707 labour theory of value has been debunked many times over the years I don't know why people even still try to pass it off

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:10:33 2019 No.13422960
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>>13421888
>be sandwich maker
>sick of the wagie life
>save up 30% of my wage for 3 years
>start sandwich making business
>put all my life savings on the line
>work hard and make good money
>expand business due to my popularity and expertise in sandwiches
>decide to employ young anon
>going rate is $10/hr
>get called Mr. Shekelstein behind my back
>get stolen from by the same anon who I employed
>be told that I am the problem with the world

th-thanks /biz/

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:14:14 2019 No.13422989 >>13422960 How much interest do you pay on your loan?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:15:18 2019 No.13422996 >>13422989 2.81%

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:15:24 2019 No.13422997

I inspect these franchise locations. The ones that pay less than near 15 all have the most retarded illiterate starf imaginable. These people literally cant even read and fuck everything up. These are the places that end up getting debranded cause their staff isnt worth a shit and wind up with thousands of dollars in fines everytime time I show up. They eventually turn into a ghost town because the same cheap sentiment behind their low pay is also applied to their non maintenanced equipment where they store all their food in coolers that are like 60 degrees and their prep food is all expired by more than a week and they keep their hot food on a warmer all day. They eventually loose all their customers unless they're in a tourist area where theres a constant supply of oblivious. The few rare good ones pay good wages and dont hire retards. But they're unicorns

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:16:08 2019 No.13423001 File: 66 KB, 605x605, IMG_0137.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So a bunch of niggers with no jobs start arguing about wage rates on a Siberian tiger training image board at 8 in the morning

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:16:40 2019 No.13423009 >>13422802 you would know the answer to that question if you understood economics you would also know why and just how retarded and irrelevant to the subject of this thread your question is

>>	BSV will win Wed Apr 24 10:17:07 2019 No.13423012 File: 8 KB, 256x264, jerio.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13422960 maybe the solution is to offer the employees 1% of the proceeds from every sandwich they make and sell in addition to minimum wage?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:17:59 2019 No.13423022 >>13423001 ah, lifes never been better fren

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:20:42 2019 No.13423044 >>13422040 If you do all the hardwork then write your own code. You dont because you know how quickly you'd find out that coding is the easy part but you dont have what it takes to make more money for yourself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:21:17 2019 No.13423048 Also Indians own fucking everything in America now and those are the cheapest fukers on the planet. We seriously need to start boycotting their businesses

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:26:05 2019 No.13423089 >>13422996 So youre basically the bitch of some Jew. Nice

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:28:16 2019 No.13423107

>>13422040
> I create millions of dollars of value with my work!
> I'm too stupid and feckless to produce millions of dollars of value independently
> I'm going to get mad at the leadership who give me direction and purpose and support because I can't do anything by myself but don't want to admit it because once again I'm too stupid and feckless to produce millions of dollars of value independently
Oh yeah and you probably don't actually produce that much value, you just have an inflated ego

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:30:23 2019 No.13423120
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>>13421888
Did those employees plant/grow/harvest the grains and lettuce and tomatoes and raise and slaughter the animals and truck all the parts from different farms to the store and handle the packaging and cover the electricity bill and property taxes and rent of the establishment and cover the equipment costs and furniture and cashier software?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:30:59 2019 No.13423129 >>13423089 you're the one making $10/hr

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:31:27 2019 No.13423130 >>13422707 Yes, we use immigration and inflation to keep wages down. It's worked very well since the 70s.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:33:42 2019 No.13423147 >>13421922 >profits are unpaid wages Then why should I ever start a business to employ your whining ass? Go start your own and make 0 profits.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:39:00 2019 No.13423184

>>13422949
It has been debunked, like the 9/11 false flag theory has been debunked.

Nature or machines don't create value. It's human labor which create value. Please do not give the stupid example of the worker who do shit labor as a counter argument.

>>13423130
Exactly.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:46:06 2019 No.13423250

>>13422754
No it's not a fair price, since labor is the only investment were as an investor you pay 1000, and you get 3000, with almost no risk, and an almost instantaneous return on investment. The price is not fair, it's just that the workers don't realize that they are getting scammed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:46:54 2019 No.13423258 >>13423129 I'm a neet

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:48:38 2019 No.13423278 >>13423250 >he hasn't lost thousands of dollars due to retail stores going bankrupt So where can I get this easy 2000 dollar gain?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:48:41 2019 No.13423279 >>13423250 By the way, not everything in capitalism is a fair price, E.G: a lottery ticket isn't sold at a fair price. Same for luxury products, or monopoly products. No fair price.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:49:03 2019 No.13423284 File: 121 KB, 684x828, 54BB6B2A-E1AD-4B75-948A-3DEECD34B93E.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13423184 >please do not give me counter arguments because I know that I am correct

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:49:34 2019 No.13423286

>>13423184
>Nature or machines don't create value. It's human labor which create value.
> Can't have human labor without humans
> Can't have humans without sperm and egg
> Literally can't have human labor without nature
Cum economy.
look guys I'm a smart academic who just makes up my own terminology and definitions to talk about how I think the world should operate

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:51:37 2019 No.13423307 >>13422802 He's probably right. Outside of tech, most industries work pretty much the same as they always have done. OK I can order a pizza with an app rather than phoning them up, 99% of the business works the same way.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:52:31 2019 No.13423316

>>13423278
Create a company with high productivity. Like a factory which use a lot of machines, enhancing the productivity of the workers a lot. Lot's of surplus labor.

But you'll need a lot of money to start. And that's an other reason why capitalism is shit. A rich kid with 120 IQ have much more potential to make money than a poor with 150 IQ.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:54:37 2019 No.13423332 >>13423316 No I'm an investor who wants to make 2000 dollars like you said...so easy

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:54:41 2019 No.13423333
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>>13423250
I want to agree but everyone’s known a story of a shit employee that got hired and later laid off because they just fkn sucked. That’s a horrible investment from a business standpoint and results in a clear and significant loss (from paying their salary while they are employed). (this obviously applies less for wagecuck subway employees but I’m talking in ideal terms I guess)

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:55:17 2019 No.13423338 >>13422809 Hey, bud, they really work hard to develop that skill, and their bachelor’s should mean that they’re entitled to $160,000.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:56:10 2019 No.13423349 >>13423284 The argument on shit labor is retarded. You clearly have never worked or seen a factory in your life. Shit labor is not possible, or you are out the first day.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 10:57:47 2019 No.13423358 >>13423333 Surplus labor is calculated on average of course. You can have 9 good workers an 1 retard, the sum of the 10 workers gives you a positive surplus labor.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:00:40 2019 No.13423388 >>13423349 Just because you learned about Marx yesterday doesn’t mean you’re close to being capable of accurately describing the labor theory Stop being retarded Anon, labor isn’t what makes value

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:03:43 2019 No.13423407 >>13423388 labour theory originated from capitalists not marx

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:04:27 2019 No.13423414

>>13422256
kek. the worker is easily replaceable. how much would the company make without the whiny worker? same, cause the business would hire someone else to do the job. you can't negotiate from a such a weak position. lets get real, a brainlet sandwich maker is lucky to get $10 an hour for their miserable effort at life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:06:34 2019 No.13423427 >>13423414 yeah, thats why unions are a thing brainlet. In USA unions were completely crashed by the government and corporate lobbying so they are impotent

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:06:39 2019 No.13423429

This is why anything other than working on your own terms for your own customers for cash will make you feel like youre getting fucked. If your hourly rate increase depends only how fast you work, you will find the intersection between value for yourself and quality for client.

Sieze the means of production and be the progenitor of your economic destiny; make your hourly rate the same as net income.

t. Door to door snow shoveler

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:07:00 2019 No.13423432 >>13423388 You talk like the market is something that always existed. Labor pre-exists the market. What constituted value on the first exchanges at the birth of the neolitic revolution? Labor put on those items/food.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:07:42 2019 No.13423439 >>13423044 no, building and maintaining the software is the hard part of any software business. the reason engineers don't do everything else ourselves is because it's usually more than one man can do.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:10:29 2019 No.13423447

>>13423427
we're talking about sandwich makers. fucking christ, this is an after school job for 16 year olds. anyone still working at subway as a grown adult gets no sympathy from me. that kind of basic entry level job should not be making more than $10 in my opinion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:12:14 2019 No.13423462 >>13423432 Supply and demand still drives value in everything. Labor is no exception. End of story

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:27:24 2019 No.13423591

>>13421888
I'd like to see the employee who makes 50 sandwiches in an hour. Maybe at McDonalds, where "making a sandwich" is a ten-second affair. Certainly not at Subway, during a lunch hour rush that guy might make 20.

But let's say 30, and further that he does this every hour for his shift (he doesn't.) That's $150 worth of sales in an hour.

Out of that $150, you've got the cost of the food and packaging. Being extremely generous to you socialists who don't understand capitalism, we'll say that only cost $50 for all of the bread, meat, toppings, and packaging for 50 sandwiches. Out of the remaining $100, the employee takes $10 AND the government takes payroll and unemployment taxes from the employer equivalent to about $3. The building overhead (rent/electricity/water/insurance/cleaning supplies/office supplies/phone/wi-fi) has to be paid, you're a fool if you think that equates to less than $20/hr. Now you're down to $67. Oh, but wait...there are franchise fees that the owner has to pay, and interest on the loan he got to start the business and buy the equipment. Cut that roughly in half and go with $40/hr (still being extremely generous for the socialists' argument.) Some of that remaining $40 needs to be put away for capital expenses like a new freezer, A/C, or whatever else goes out. Some has to go to other employees or contractors who aren't actively making sandwiches but have to be paid anyway (like the accountant, the payroll company, the credit card processor, the manager who runs the deposits and organizes the schedules) and God knows I'm forgetting dozens of other expenses.

The employee is making 8% or so of every transaction he handles. I can tell you if an owner gets to pocket 8% of all the incoming money from the business he's set up, invested in, and is taking all the financial risks on, he's having a very good year.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:30:10 2019 No.13423615
File: 90 KB, 699x775, 07E281B6-8342-40DB-AE27-9711FC2DA0DC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13423439
Nice trips, and I commend you for finally coming to the realization that the value you provide your employer is wholly dependent on the labor of others that also needs to be purchased by your employer. If you were in their position perhaps you'd better be able to see how quickly a million goes to half a million, a quarter million, one hundred twenty five thousand etc.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:35:19 2019 No.13423652

>>13423615
it's not a new realization for me. just felt the need to correct the fag who thinks writing software is the easy part. it's not. some jobs are harder than others, doesn't mean that those with the hard jobs have the time and energy to then do everything else by themselves too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:36:27 2019 No.13423661 >>13421888 he is only entitled to the amount of money he is willing to do the work for.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:36:50 2019 No.13423666

>>13422802
>If weather is a real thing, why can't meteorologists agree on exactly how many hurricanes and tornadoes are coming in 2019, and why do they have to wait until a week before a June wedding to predict rain with anything more than 50% accuracy?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:39:45 2019 No.13423685

>>13421888
>doesn’t have to pay for food to make sandwhiches
>doesn’t have to pay for a building to sell out of
>doesn’t have to maintain a license to operate a restaurant
>doesn’t have to pay for marketing to bring customers in
>doesn’t have to create recipes for sandwhiches

I could go on forever, but employees who make sandwhiches should really be paid $2 an hour.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:47:53 2019 No.13423749

>>13423652
Writing software is easy though. 90% of your time is spent referencing and googling and copy/pasting. The only reason why they're valued so highly right now is because most of the work force is made up of boomers who still type with index fingers. Give it like a decade for the next generation to get started and software engineering will be the next accounting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 11:54:05 2019 No.13423803 >>13421888 entitled

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:10:55 2019 No.13423938 >>13422205 You seem to not understand what a 'marketplace' is. The market has dynamics that don't give a FUCK about your feels. These 'evil' shits, have learned these painful lessons.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:32:15 2019 No.13424098 >>13423749 T. Data entry clerk that doesnt understand computation/complexity theory

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:33:33 2019 No.13424109 File: 54 KB, 400x2000, comicunism.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:39:16 2019 No.13424156 >>13424098 Computation and complexity theory? You mean the shit you learn in your foundational data structures and algorithms classes? Boy that's a toughie, software engineers sure are smaht you know lotsa bout computahs

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:42:53 2019 No.13424191 >>13424156 Okay, this guy rocks!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:45:46 2019 No.13424223 >>13424191 Okay.... This is epic

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:56:29 2019 No.13424316

>>13424156
My bad.I should have never challenged you, sir. You are absolutely right and typing speed/not typing with your index fingers implies greater knowledge of theory and a total grasp of all things programming.

Glory be to the zoomer. Long live the Twitter user and 4chan shitposter.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 12:57:28 2019 No.13424332

>>13423462
Ok, but what does make something valuable in the first place? It is not the market. But the quantity and quality human work put into it.

Even discovery: you don't discover oil or gold everytime everyday. It is the amount of human work put into searching it, until finally discovering it and extracting it, that make the value of discovery.

There are exceptions of the labor theory of value: luxury, gambling (lottery ticket, which is a scam), monopoly, and art (which can be analyzed as a monopoly but it is a little far fetched. I prefer to think of art as rich degenerates buyiing useless and overpriced good in order to strike their egos.

The labor theory might be only a fragmented explanation of the origin of value, but for me it's still better than the magical, thus retarded, explanation of the "market" as an origin to value.

My intuition makes me think that the true origin of value is a mix of both, it can be circumstantial, but the majority of what constitute the value of an ordinary item, in an ordinary time, without temporary scarcity, is the amount and quality of work put into it.

When you buy your toothpaste, it is not supply and demand of the market which determine it's value, but the amount of work put into it by the workers in the toothpaste factory, in addition to the amount of work put by the workers who made the machinery of the factory, and the amount of work put by the workers who made raw material bought by the toothpaste factory,

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:01:20 2019 No.13424385 >>13422387 You put in to the pot. You reap benefits. Your money goes into supplying the people that protect the borders in which you live. At the very least.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:01:42 2019 No.13424390 >>13424316 just make a social network website and sell it for 10 billion dollars to Microsoft

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:04:34 2019 No.13424417 >>13424390 Front me $15 million in starting capital and you have a deal. You can have shares of the company in exchange.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:06:09 2019 No.13424436 >>13424417 Zuckerberg did it with 12000 dollars

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:07:06 2019 No.13424445 >>13421888 This is how you ensure you lose your job to automation

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:07:54 2019 No.13424460 >>13424436 And he wont do it for $12000 ever again, even if you asked him nicely. I'm really giving you a bargain here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:09:41 2019 No.13424476 >>13424460 no you are just gonna take my 25 million and make some shitty subpar website

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:10:11 2019 No.13424481

>>13424332
This is retard high-school tier economics.

Value is determined by utility, period. Thus cuckerberg being worth billions for putting in a fraction of the effort of a coal miner. The coal that a single miner can produce is a drop in the ocean compared to the utility 1+ billion people get out of facebook, as much of a cancer that it actually is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:11:36 2019 No.13424492 >>13424476 Thats quite the accusation. I would never do such a heinous thing with your $50 million dollar investment. And besides, you gotta put a little skin in the game if you want to reap the rewards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:13:01 2019 No.13424505 >>13424492 listen I am not paying you $75 million just to jerk off and drink s o y milk all day long

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:18:26 2019 No.13424555

>>13424481

And how much will facebook be valued in 20 years?

Facebook, as crypto, are temporary exception which can be analyzed as temporary monopolies.

The value of most high tech companies, like software or social medias, is temporary.

Stop reasoning with exceptions.

However, gold extracted by a worker 500 years ago will still be worth a lot in 50 years from now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:19:25 2019 No.13424564 the first time i see a discussion about economics on this board, fucking wow. keep it up friends

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:20:16 2019 No.13424577

>>13424316
Found the boomer who types with two fingers and probably still only writes code using vi

>>13424332
>Ok, but what does make something valuable in the first place? It is not the market. But the quantity and quality human work put into it.
Value is determined by the scarcity of X and the demand for X. It's an equilibrium

>Even discovery: you don't discover oil or gold everytime everyday. It is the amount of human work put into searching it, until finally discovering it and extracting it, that make the value of discovery.
The price of silver has dropped so low in history that mines have closed because they can't afford to pay their workers at the same level of production with the silver prices so low. Value is determined by scarcity and demand and it fluctuates. Labor is susceptible to supply and demand too

>The labor theory might be only a fragmented explanation of the origin of value, but for me it's still better than the magical, thus retarded, explanation of the "market" as an origin to value.
It isn't magical. How can you be so dismissive of the natural truth that not everybody finds everything as valuable as the next person? We literally have several real life examples of supply and demand driving value in the form of security exchanges. It exists in the real world. Your ideas exist in imagination and have failed in practice over and over and over again.

>When you buy your toothpaste, it is not supply and demand of the market which determine it's value
See, but it is... supply and demand runs under every part of the economy and really every part of life. Hell we wouldn't have toothpaste manufactured at all if people weren't brushing their teeth. If there was only one guy in the entire world who made toothpaste and EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD NEEDED TO BRUSH there would be the wealthiest whales of society bidding thousands for a tube. Why? Because it's a scarce product and EVERYONE wants it

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:21:14 2019 No.13424588

>>13424505
Look man, $100 million dollars is literally nothing. We've already secured twice that from Goldman Sachs and Buffett. We are simply looking to diversify the pool of investors and ensure that money made can properly trickle down to other small business owners who might want to link up and do further business with us one day. We are trying to take responsibility and help others. And heck, you should remember that you're getting shares in an amazing start up out of this. Think about it: your $150 million dollars immediately converted into shares of a company that can easily become worth 100x what it is worth today. Social media and data wrangling is the future and we all know it. You should take this opportunity to get a head start with a trusted friend. Just $200 million dollars is all it takes.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:26:05 2019 No.13424631

>>13424577
>Value is determined by the scarcity of X and the demand for X. It's an equilibrium

Yes but what constitutes scarcity? The large amount of work put into it but the low productivity. Why is gold scarce? Because it cost a lot of human work to find it, and extract it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:28:30 2019 No.13424655 >>13424631 Why does it "cost a lot of human work" to extract it? Can't we just pay workers $1 a year to extract it? That would be cheap as hell to extract that gold, man

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:34:50 2019 No.13424715

>>13424655
You think work is not scarce, you are right, but it is because capitalists use a lot of mass migration to dump salaries and outsource to countries were labor is cheap. Work will be higher when those immigrants are absorbed into western standards and when third world will have developped themselves.

Also, human work is "cheap", because workers don't understand that they get scammed on unpaid labor (surplus labor).

When people realize this, and they will one day or an other, work will be way more expensive that it currently is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:38:41 2019 No.13424748 >>13421888 >sandwich that makes 5 dollars costs 4.95 cents to make and market

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:38:55 2019 No.13424749

>>13424715
>capitalists use a lot of mass migration to dump salaries and outsource to countries were labor is cheap. Work will be higher when those immigrants are absorbed into western standards and when third world will have developped themselves.
>Also, human work is "cheap", because workers don't understand that they get scammed on unpaid labor (surplus labor).
>When people realize this, and they will one day or an other, work will be way more expensive that it currently is.
So the value of labor is determined by supply and demand. Thanks dumbass I'm glad you conceded

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:39:50 2019 No.13424757 >>13423749 I'm not talking about making basic websites you fucking mong. that you think we're checking stackoverflow to try hack together spaghettie outs you as being fucking clueless yourself.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:40:22 2019 No.13424761

>>13423012
I've thought about this a bit, I'd let anyone sell my product and give 10% of the profit of every sale to the salesperson. It seems like a win/win since you want to sell the product, and you wouldn't have made that sale without that salesperson anyway, so you both come out ahead.
The only case where it wouldn't work is for luxury brands where the name is everything and you don't want pajeets or homeless people trying to sell your product.
Why aren't more businesses doing this? It's like the equivalent of being the t-shirt manufacturer of teespring where everyone else tries to sell your product.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:43:39 2019 No.13424795 >>13424757 I want you to tell me that you never google anything work related on the job :) We both know. Just own up to it and accept you're just a computer instruction writer

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:44:03 2019 No.13424800

>>13424156
it's not about being smarter or better than anyone else... I didnt' say anything about that. I said writing software is not the easy part of building a company and I stand by it. you're going to put hundreds/thousands of hours into a complex piece of software before it's ever close to production ready. it's the hard part that happens up front.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:47:49 2019 No.13424840

>>13424795
you say 90% of software engineering is googling and copy pasting. I have no problem being honest with you on this, 1-5% of my time might be spent googling work related shit during the day and it's almost always just for a quick reference to a syntax I'm not remembering off the top of my head. occasionally there is an obscure bug that has me scratching my head that I spend more time trying to find answers for from others who've seen it.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:49:06 2019 No.13424855

>>13424749
Labor is not supposed to be exchanged in return of something in the first place.

This shit only exist since -12000 BCE. Homo sapiens exists since 300000 years. And never has he sold his work for shit.

This is the distinction between a free man and the slave of the exchange value that you are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:52:22 2019 No.13424885 >>13424795 you're clueless dude. you can't copy paste code successfully for an application that has any sort of complexity. most of it is going to be custom logic after the initial foundation has been built.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:54:31 2019 No.13424909 >>13421888 >Pepe PayPal $5 for a sammich

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:55:21 2019 No.13424919 >>13424855 > Not supposed to be > Is > SUCCESSFULLY cope. The real world is real. Your imagination is your imagination.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:56:41 2019 No.13424930 >>13424885 > Copies and pastes java hello world program and tries to rewrite it in javascript Damn dude ur like a rocket scientist

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 13:57:16 2019 No.13424932 Just FYI a typical restaurant's profit margin is in single digit, a very well managed one can be in the low teens, there's a reason food service is one of the worst business to get into. T. family owns restaurants

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:02:36 2019 No.13424971
File: 157 KB, 500x576, anonymous-03-02-12-fri-17-39-no-1921453-if-only-you-knew-how-bad-32496812.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13421888
Sandwiches are more like 10 dollars each but poor old wagie still only getting 8 dollars an hour after taxes.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:04:29 2019 No.13424984

>>13424930
the thing I hate about cunts like you is you spend a weekend learning javascript and think you're now an engineer. maybe you went to a bootcamp....maybe you even have a few years experience. you might be a decent code monkey, but you don't know shit cause the real professionals have been making your favorite tools/frameworks as dummy proof as possible for the last decade. don't talk to me about how easy software is and try to tell me any third world pajeet could do what I do....cause I know better.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:09:36 2019 No.13425027

>>13424984
I bet u don't even know what a if/else program is. You probably paid like 2k to go to a bootstrap camp and learned how to use wix (I've been coding on wix for a decade) I fucking hate people like you who think editing text files is coding cuz it really isn't
I know more than yoy

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:17:10 2019 No.13425095

>>13425027
wow....really?
the reason guys like me have no problem finding high paying work anywhere we want isn't because boomers who type with their index fingers haven't retired yet....as you say. it's because actual skilled developers are hard to find. the market is absolutely flooded with junior level programmers who know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to be useful.
this is why you can't find a job. don't get bitter at me about it.
90% of the workforce never grow past that stage. that gives me a enough job security to feel quite comfortable about the coming decades.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:18:11 2019 No.13425109 >>13422256 More if they had a sandwich robot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:18:52 2019 No.13425115 >>13425095 Not trying to find a job because I have a job. I'm a lead wix developer at Facebook, pipsqueak. What are you? Coding HTML for some rinky dink credit union?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:18:56 2019 No.13425117

>>13421902

/thread

Business expenses are no fucking joke. My company doesn't even have a building, my people just have trucks, and fuck is it still expensive.

> Insurance
> Taxes
> Materials
> Refunds for unhappy customers
> Advertising and Marketing Materials
> Flyers and Truck Wraps
> Gasoline and vehicle maintenance

After you take all that shit into account, paying a grunt more than $15 an hour is difficult to do.

If it weren't for the government's excessive taxation and jew lawyers that created our litigious society, wages could easily be raised by 50%.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:18:59 2019 No.13425119 >>13421888 >taxes >rent >electricity >advertising >cost of food >transportation cost getting it there >wages >insurance im sure all thats free

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:19:38 2019 No.13425127 >>13425115 oh shit, that wasn't sarcasm? hahahahaha wow. a wix developer?!?! my sides! hahahahaha

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:20:55 2019 No.13425140 I legit thought you were trolling when you were talking about wix. get a fucking life dude

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:21:11 2019 No.13425143 >>13424919 How about the tendency of the rate of profit to fall as a reality? Your beloved capitalistic system is doomed. A few decades left at most. In the meantime, not need to glorify the shit it is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:21:40 2019 No.13425152 >>13425127 Yea yuk it up kid you know I'm making well over 60k per ANNUM. I'm also a diversity team officer for the wix department but its an unofficial role I took on

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:22:17 2019 No.13425158 >>13425152 well played. you had me laughing anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:23:33 2019 No.13425170 >>13425115 So you have a job, are proud of it, and accuse me of coping? Enjoy giving your surplus labor to the owners of facebook.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:25:37 2019 No.13425193 >>13422754 Thats not why minimum wage jobs were created for.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:29:05 2019 No.13425232

>>13425143
I'm not glorifying it, Im just saying your dumb theory is not a reflection of reality. It's total unrealistic fantasy that can't really be applied anywhere realistically because it's nonsense.

and profit falls because of a surplus of labor (THE SUPPLY OF LABOR INCREASES AND LOWERS THE PRICE COMPANIES NEED TO PAY TO ATTRACT TALENT). Just like you said.

>>13425170
Lmao

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:43:17 2019 No.13425365

>>13425232
What is dumb, saying that human work is the first value, which from originates all the other values?

Saying that wagies are paid what is needed to reproduce their workforce (necessary labor), but give away the profit (surplus labor) to the capitalist class?

Your first post, ITT: "the worker, who agreed to work at 10$/hr." He agreed because he didn't know he's getting scammed. Not because of supply and demand. Supply and demand doesn't apply to scamming. Now you'll say," it is not my problem if he is stupid", which i'll answer, wagies are slowly waking up. In this board and IRL.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:49:19 2019 No.13425425 >>13425232 Profit falls because of markets saturation due to increase in productivity. It is one of the contradictory laws of capitalism. When productivity increase, on the long term, profit decrease.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:50:02 2019 No.13425431 >>13425365 >doesn't ask for a bigger paycheck just give your boss a firm handshake and wink and whisper in his ear

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 14:51:29 2019 No.13425449

>>13425365
Human work like everything else is determined by supply and demand. Everything is already interconnected. Pointless thought experiment that created a flawed and inefficient fantasy economic structure.

> He agree because he didn't know he's getting scammed
So universally everyone who accepts a job like the one described in OP they're getting scammed according to you? Your assumptions and thought process is so unbelievably flawed

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:00:36 2019 No.13425557

>>13425449
Yes human work is determined by supply and demand.

But everything on the market, except human work, is determined by the LIMITING FACTOR that is human work.

In other words, if a particular item, let's say a pair of Nike shoes made in Bangladesh, is worth 70$, it is because the amount of work necessary to made this shoes (and the work necessary to build the machines to make it, and work necessary to build the raw materials), was about 50$, plus the 20$ (surplus labor) Nike take as a profit.

>So universally everyone who accepts a job like the one described in OP they're getting scammed according to you?

Exactly.

Welcome to capitalism.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:04:42 2019 No.13425606

>>13425557
Lmao, so edgy

I think I was making this point earlier but you can't have human labor without humans and humans can't exist without food so really food is where value comes from. Wouldn't you agree? If we had no food then we would have no labor because everyone would be dead

Food economy

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:05:47 2019 No.13425619 >>13425557 In other words, scarcity is your beloved supply/demand market, is determined by human work. How much work is necessary to make a particular item.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:11:28 2019 No.13425681

>>13425557
by that logic you are also scamming your employer. You mouth breathing retard.

>take $20k salary
>$10k on rent
>$2k on food
>$2k on clothes, other amenities etc.
>$2k on utilities

leaves you with
>$4k surplus left for savings
so you are scamming your employer for $4k a year?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:11:34 2019 No.13425683 File: 7 KB, 155x155, angryocaciocortez.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13421888 TIP YOUR BARISTA!

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:13:20 2019 No.13425704

>>13425606
Yes everything is interconnected.

However, many don't understand that the price of your coffee machine is not what a magical "market" say it's worth.

Something like a 50 dollar shitty coffee machine which cost 45 dollar to build, plus 5 dollar surplus labor (profit) will most likely never be 500 dollar on the "market".

The supply and demand law is often used as an argument by capitalist people to justify that a particular item is sold way more that it actually cost to build. Thus justifying the exploitation of workers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:14:35 2019 No.13425717 >>13421888 I want communists physically removed from /biz/. So to speak.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:15:21 2019 No.13425723 >>13425681 don't try to argue with covert commies. They are worth less than the bullet that you use to shoot them with.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:18:16 2019 No.13425757 >>13425681 No you brainwashed capitalist worshiper. Because if my employer pays me $20k, i created a value of more than $20k for him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:18:55 2019 No.13425762 >>13421888 I dont have time to be a millionaire I'm busy creating value for others do you even altruism

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:21:10 2019 No.13425785 >>13425704 Baby bird brain here doesn't understand that there is not just one type of cost and that pricing can be explained with the supply and demand curve but ultimately something is only worth as much as what people will pay for it. Sorry. Cope.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:22:15 2019 No.13425798 >>13425717 Fuck you the topic thread is about exploitation of a worker. >>13425723 Nice tribute to your hunter gatherer ancestors who didn't know about exchange value, markets, money, exploitation of the work of others. Lackey.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:24:26 2019 No.13425820 >>13421922 Reinvested profits though? Imagine being a complacent business. The employee has their value creation fully facilitated with expense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:26:16 2019 No.13425834 >>13422256 The worker is not a necessity, and can be replaced with expense. However the company seems to be a necessity for the worker to create value.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:31:37 2019 No.13425888 >>13422256 how much would the worker make without the company?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:33:53 2019 No.13425905 >>13425117 except every time we cut taxes to you faggot business owners you don't pass the savings on to your employees. you always pocket them. so stop bitching and if you don't like it stop being a business owner

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:36:14 2019 No.13425930

>>13425785
All the other costs are also related to work.

If you buy steel as a raw material, were do you think the value of this steel comes from? Work.

If you buy machines in a factory, were do they value come from? Work. Electricity, water? Work.

>supply and demand

Limited by work. Scarcity of an item? Limited by human work.

>as much as what people will pay for it.

That's 18th century economics. When the proletarian goes into low cost supermarket, he doesn't have the luxury to pay what he think his food is worth.

You got your life stolen away from you. You've been brainwashed your whole life. Now you can continue enjoying your exploitation, or think about a future were human don't exploit the work of other humans. Your choice.

>Cope.

Classic projection.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:38:12 2019 No.13425946 >>13425888 About the same? (necessary labor).

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:38:30 2019 No.13425948 Based communist retards spamming biz and making everyone hate them more

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:49:22 2019 No.13426059 File: 23 KB, 500x375, ysR8YcB_d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13425681 Hi mr krabs

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:54:05 2019 No.13426094

>>13425930
So how does eBay even work? If people can't agree on a price regardless of the labor that went into whatever theyre buying/selling then that just undermines everything.
This is the communism thought process:
> Everything is because labor
> Everything gets labor points from how many units of labors went into laboriously laboring the labor product
> Value is determined by labor credit points in our labor system
> Not abiding by that and setting your own prices is evil capitalist swine I hate you
> Supply and demand rules labor but labor rules everything else while being interconvectored
That's the retardation I'm gathering from you.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 15:56:13 2019 No.13426125

>>13425757
yes, the employer supplies the business, the resources, the employment opportunity, the salary, and assumes all the risk, and in return he receives profit from the labour.
if you're so asspained about it, start your own business and pay everyone whatever you want.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 16:09:17 2019 No.13426284 >>13421888 I honestly don't understand why this thread has 100+ replies. Honestly - why bother arguing with people that don't even have a modicum of understanding of economics?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 16:12:46 2019 No.13426318

every day they drain america and drain the wealth and ability to survive from the poor is a day closer to men going on killing sprees in the rich cities and jewish enclaves. Get your guns get your ammo and map out the rich mens homes. Civil war will come very soon if they dont unleash the money on the lower classes. The rich die with a bullet to the head and there are more poor than rich by 90x. Get ready to kill rich men all across the usa

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 16:26:33 2019 No.13426441 >>13422876 Bait or retard?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 16:43:38 2019 No.13426630
File: 298 KB, 1440x2560, Screenshot_20190424-153507.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13423307
>if you ignore the largest companies in the world who's meteoric rises are entirely dependent on the internet he is right

Lol. That quote was terribly, terribly mistaken. He should be embarrassed for being that wrong. Every logistical step is much easier because of the internet.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 17:44:00 2019 No.13427172 >>13422167 he won't reply to your post he thinks companies are magic

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 17:45:28 2019 No.13427188

>>13426125

>the employer supplies the business, the resources, the employment opportunity, the salary, and assumes all the risk, and in return he receives profit from the labour.

At least you have the honesty to admit it. In opposition to others.

Although you tend to romanticize the employer. Like he is some kind of extraordinary being, when in fact he is closer to a crook.

>>13426094

Supply and demand is ruled by scarcity, which is ruled by labor. The limiting factor of production. Scarcity doesn't fall from the sky.

Mainstream economists claim that scarcity of a particular item is some natural phenomenon, when in fact if the item is scarce, it is because it is hard to produce, because it takes a lot of labor to produce this particular item, either in quality labor or in quantity labor. It is not that hard to understand.

However, when we ask economist why workers are paid less than they produce, they say it is because of supply and demand, which is untrue, since workers are paid their wage, but produce more than their wages.

Were in the economy do you receive more than you pay for? Almost nowhere, except scams. Gambling, Luxury, monopoly, and, most importantly, cost of labor.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 17:47:17 2019 No.13427205 >>13422167 >>13427172 Because i don't like to be exploited, but i'm not a fan at exploiting others either?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:01:28 2019 No.13427338

>>13427188
>when in fact he is closer to a crook.
he is not a crook, he is providing a service and is being compensated for it. why should a worker with no responsibility, no investment in the company, and assumes no risk in his employment be compensated as equally as the man who assumes the responsibility of keeping the company working properly, pours his own money INTO the business instead of the other way around, and risks his own money among other things to do so?
it's not a matter of being an extraordinary being, it's a matter of being compensated for doing more than just showing up at a building for 8 hours a day, doing the same thing you always do, and going home.
>>13427205
start a non-profit business, then.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:10:30 2019 No.13427407

>>13427338

>he is not a crook, he is providing a service and is being compensated for it.

Same explanation about feudalism.

The lord was right to exploit the serf work (who worked his own field but also the field of the lord). Because the lord did protect the serf with his sword. LOL

Enough of these scams about exploiting others work.

>start a non-profit business, then.

That's better, but the core of the alienation is the exchange of goods. It is the reason why humanity is sick. We should not produce to exchange, and make a profit, but directly for our needs.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:24:53 2019 No.13427489

>>13427407
>Same explanation about feudalism.
yes but the difference is in the USA, anyone is free to start their own business, at any time. Anyone is free to pursue a career in a field they are drawn to.
>We should not produce to exchange, and make a profit, but directly for our needs.
Why? What difference does it make to you if someone else is making a profit? Do you live in a house? does it keep you warm in the winter? The only true argument communists have when it comes down to it is "it's not fair". Boo-hoo. Your life is still pretty amazing compared to the rest of the world, and capitalism is largely to thank for that. And if you aren't happy with your life, it is well within your power to change it, because we live in a society that rewards ingenuity and innovation. There is absolutely nothing oppressive about capitalism; capitalists are the very first people to throw money at someone with a good idea and a way to implement it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:38:52 2019 No.13427585 >>13422216 They aren't coming here to work. We give them free money food and housing in return for their votes. Any politician in support of immigration is against the values of their nation as long as we give handouts.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:44:29 2019 No.13427624

>>13427585
why? Because immigration is capitalism reserve army.

>>13427489

Oh man you are going to be so disappointed by capitalism when it's final crisis will occur.

Indeed, capitalism is riddled with internal contradictions, with the biggest one being the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.

In other words, the capitalist system only has a few decades left. And we are entering it's final stage.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:47:37 2019 No.13427651
File: 37 KB, 720x576, 1551027831921.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13427407
>We should not produce to exchange, and make a profit, but directly for our needs.
This is your mind on communism. I can only imagine the hellhole these morons would bring upon society if they got in power.
>mr. blacksmith, even though you're very good at making these useful tools called hammers, you shouldn't make more than you need. Everyone should make his own hammer even though it would take them 10 times more time than it would take you. Doesn't matter that in that time they could be doing something that they are actually good at that which could benefit the rest of the community like your hammers would. Everyone should only produce what they need and be stuck in a perpetual stone age because exchanging things is evil. Better yet, you should produce hammers and only exchange for something that someone else produced, with no profit involved. God help if the double coincidence of wants is not in your favor.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 18:56:01 2019 No.13427711 File: 632 KB, 232x216, 576E7DFA-D63C-4179-9358-24D3170B6280.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13422040 If that’s the case why don’t you negotiate for a higher salary?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:02:41 2019 No.13427772

>>13427624
>with the biggest one being the tendency of the rate of profit to fall
a literal non-issue. recession and growth are woven into the fabric of society, both serve their purpose. growth drives innovation, recession exposes those unworthy to compete, as well as those trying to cheat the system (Lehman Brothers, Bernie Madoff), a sort of financial natural selection.
>In other words, the capitalist system only has a few decades left
you're deluding yourself. it will always have its upswings and downturns, but as long as we have the desire to innovate and the incentive to do so, capitalism cannot fail.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:07:02 2019 No.13427805 File: 118 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13427772 Eat this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:12:32 2019 No.13427850 >>13427805 getting more goods and services, to more people, for less profit. capitalism working more efficiently. how is that a bad thing?

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:15:34 2019 No.13427872

>>13427805
Okay i'll explain a little.

When productivity increase with technological advancement, price decrease.

Then the market gets saturated. Items cannot be sold anymore because they are no more needed.

Crisis.

It will only get worse and worse with techological advancement.

Capitalism retardation makes people believe that technology increase profit, but it would be too easy. It is the opposite. It increase profit for a small amount of time, then, as the market gets saturated, it decrease.

In any case, productivity tends to the yield of the forces of nature as the decades pass, until a critical point were there is no enough scarcity to make a profit. We can make artificial scarcity like planned obsolescence, but it won't work forever.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:19:57 2019 No.13427902

If the Keynesian bargain hadn't been broken by robber baron traitors than the average wage in the US would be around 200k with specialists worth nearly 7 figures. Hating the working poor is sick, our society is rich and believe it or not burger flipping for mcshits is actually worth at least 30-40k a year given that mcshits makes an average of 55k a year in profits per employee. Yes, businesses need profit margins to grow I get that. But a reasonable profit margin is not gouge the worker for everything they are to the point exploitation and hyperinflate prices to artificially create wealth.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:20:37 2019 No.13427908

>>13422040
Lol I am an engineer to and you should neck yourself. Chances are you didnt create any new construction code. You didnt create a new cadd program to draw fancy mem lines, you didnt create any new physics break through, you didnt find any new compound for material science. You read a fucking engineering textbook and plugged and chugged the formulas. Congragulations you benefited from other people discoveries and you think your some reincarnated newton when there are engineers from asia which could do exactly what you do for less the cost.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:25:16 2019 No.13427947

>>13427872
look at the communist trying to educate people on supply and demand.
everything you just said is common knowledge. competition plus market saturation leads to lower profits which leads to further innovation, which leads to higher profit, which leads to more competition, etc, etc. a lower overall rate of profit is actually much healthier and less prone to volatility in a capitalist system.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:35:55 2019 No.13428024 >>13422258 >employee invests physical life hours.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:38:54 2019 No.13428045
File: 6 KB, 278x181, index.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13427947
I'm not a communist. Not in the sense you think i am anyway.

Have you seen the graph, or should i post it again? There is no > which leads to higher profit.

Profit is plunging to zero.

Your reaction is called denial.

If productivity reach the level of natural forces, and it will in a few decades, there is no profit to be made anymore. Nothing will be scarce anymore.
It will be like trying to sell an open source software.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 19:46:36 2019 No.13428099

>>13428045
>There is no > which leads to higher profit.
see those spikes going int the "upward" direction? that is called higher profit.
>Profit is plunging to zero.
no it isn't, it is steadily decreasing as the economy grows and competition increases. more total companies = less total profit. that is a GOOD thing.
>Nothing will be scarce anymore.
>It will be like trying to sell an open source software.
Have you forgotten that "software" in an of itself is a quite recent invention with essentially limitless possible growth?
One doesn't have to mine anything, extract anything, burn anything to profit from software. One has to write a few lines of code. Profit is declining, yes, but it will never hit (and remain) zero for this very reason.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:05:44 2019 No.13428208

>>13428099
If profit decline, Capital has more and more difficulties to renew itself.

It has more and more difficulties to renew itself, and also to renew the workforce. And the workforce wants less and less to renew the capital, because it feel scammed like in OP's example. You will probably see more and more spontaneous popular rising in the years to come. Like what happened recently in Spain, or France (very recently).

Anyway, we will see. At least i won't be surprised if a final crisis occur in the decades to come. Nor should you since you've been warned now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:15:37 2019 No.13428263 >>13427908 >Lol I am an engineer Anon, lying is a sin.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:17:42 2019 No.13428278

>>13428208
>If profit decline, Capital has more and more difficulties to renew itself.
no. it renews itself just as frequently, for less profit.
>And the workforce wants less and less to renew the capital, because it feel scammed like in OP's example
that's an entirely different problem which stems from educating children to believe they are special and entitled to everything without having to work for it.
>At least i won't be surprised if a final crisis occur in the decades to come
a financial crisis is imminent, in the same vein as 2008 or 2001 were financial crises. and as always, capitalism will rebound.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:24:46 2019 No.13428325

If the guy sells $500 worth of sandwiches, how come he only gets $10 an hour?

What about the guy who baked the bread? Or the guy that picked the lettuce? Or the guy that killed the cow? The guy that processed the cow? The guy that drove the cow meat to the store? The guy that bought the cow meat from the store and drove it to the sandwich spot? What about the clerk who sold the cow meat at the store? Are any of them less important than the guy that made the sandwich? How much do you want the fucking sandwich to cost? As it turns out, the value of our dollar is arbitrary but the value of an employee is not. You aren't very valuable as the guy who slaps sandwiches together or if you're the guy who drives the meat to the store. You can easily be replaced. You can't be replaced when you're the owner of the business, you can just be outcompeted and put out of business.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:40:47 2019 No.13428444 File: 107 KB, 918x453, 57154610_2016778801965391_5501634634074554368_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13425109 this

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:47:49 2019 No.13428505 >>13423258 And this is why you're a retarded commie cuck

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:47:58 2019 No.13428507

>>13421945
this, i knew immigrants who would hustle gyros outside the bars 3 nights a week who were better off than any of the pathetic wagies working a counter. The difference between those people weren't race, it was ATTITUDE. Freedom is earned by those who strive for it.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:53:57 2019 No.13428565

>>13428325

>You aren't very valuable as the guy who slaps sandwiches together or if you're the guy who drives the meat to the store. You can easily be replaced. You can't be replaced when you're the owner of the business,

so for you the manual part of labor has no value, but the intellectual part has a great value?

The intellectual part of production has authority over the manual part?

>>13428444

Machines don't create value. Only human work does.

But since it's counter intuitive, most of you guys won't understand why.

Let's make it simple. Just remember that machines don't create value, and see what happens in the decades to come.

In any case, i'm all for automation of work, but it won't work in a capitalistic mode of production. Automation will be the doom of capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:56:29 2019 No.13428590 >>13428565 >Machines don't create value Of course they do. >Automation will be the doom of capitalism Not if a percentage of the profits they generate are redistributed to the workers they displace

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 20:56:51 2019 No.13428593 >>13428565 Or Mr. Goldberg could make his own sandwiches bypassing the need to hire pathetic commie wannabe faggots like you

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 21:02:59 2019 No.13428642

>>13422707
>implying the capitalist doesn't deserve a variable return on his fixed capital investment
starting a business is a risk, you sink a lot of capital at the beginning for the possibility of an unexpectedly large return. The labour unit is merely a cog in the business machine, they contractually agree to sell their labour at a fixed rate because that's the highest bid they can receive on their skillset. If the labour unit could command a higher price, they would do so on the open market.

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 21:11:51 2019 No.13428718

>>13428590
Machines can’t create surplus value. Only human labor power can create more value than it costs to produce. the past labor that was used to create the machine is preserved in that machine, but that doesn’t give the machine the ability to create value beyond that, it’s only the humans operating the machines that do. Which is why with more machinery more is produces, and the sales of the product may increase, but actually over time this caused the profit to fall.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 21:16:48 2019 No.13428759 >>13422387 >over simplifying this much Botswana accepted British protectorate status early on in it's history. Zimbabwe destroyed any traces of British common law, society or influence within the past 100 years

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 21:19:54 2019 No.13428787

>>13428718
If machines couldn’t produce surplus value, automation wouldn’t be rising so steeply, or at all.
>pay people x to develop machine
>mass produce machine at a cost of y
>replace human labour with machine, saving money on labour, until y and x are recovered, and the machine is generating pure profit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 21:21:02 2019 No.13428795 >>13421888 >employee complains >employee is replaced by machine that can make 5,000 in 1 hour >employee becomes homless >nobody buys sandwiches >Fox News blame millennials

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 21:51:40 2019 No.13429106 >>13428565 I have authority over anyone who agrees to work for me you retard. And their value is $10/hr not no value. You are dumb

Anonymous Wed Apr 24 22:45:42 2019 No.13429534

>>13428325
>If the guy sells $500 worth of sandwiches, how come he only gets $10 an hour?

>What about the guy who baked the bread
$11
>Or the guy that picked the lettuce?
$12
>Or the guy that killed the cow?
$15
>The guy that processed the cow?
$12
>The guy that drove the cow meat to the store?
$16
>The guy that bought the cow meat from the store and drove it to the sandwich spot?
$16
>What about the clerk who sold the cow meat at the store?
$18

$100.

That nigga boss making $400 off that back of that cracker. Fo shame son, fo shame.
>Are any of them less important than the guy that made the sandwich?
>How much do you want the fucking sandwich to cost?
As it turns out, the value of our dollar is arbitrary but the value of an employee is not. You aren't very valuable as the guy who slaps sandwiches together or if you're the guy who drives the meat to the store. You can easily be replaced. You can't be replaced when you're the owner of the business, you can just be outcompeted and put out of business.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 24 23:58:57 2019 No.13430032 >>13422256 When someone quits a burger joint it's not a big deal because the job is for teens and tards. Hire someone else.

Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:02:30 2019 No.13430443
File: 644 KB, 5156x5156, communism.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13425905
Of course that's what happens at first but eventually competition drives down prices and wages go up relative to the cost of goods and services. There is no logical way that Jews siphoning a massive percentage of society's money helps the average worker but somehow they've got you convinced.

Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:23:38 2019 No.13430562

>>13427872
Profit is a means not an ends. Profit incentivises productivity. Higher productivity = higher standards of living. Lower profit mostly means things are more efficient which is good. Would you rather 40% profit on $20,000 of revenue or 10% profit on $200,000?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:25:53 2019 No.13430577 File: 132 KB, 633x758, 1536874829480.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13430443 >gommunism killed 100 million people

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:28:26 2019 No.13430593 >>13430577 do you have any argument? mao zedong alone is responsible for probably sixty million deaths, the worst famine in human history. the khmer rouge killed a quarter of the population of cambodia.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:32:17 2019 No.13430609 File: 38 KB, 248x400, IMG_20190423_215921.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13430577 >muh 6 gorillion

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:38:07 2019 No.13430636 >>13428263 I'm not the one smelling my own shit thinking its roses.

Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:40:12 2019 No.13430649

>>13430593
>do you have any argument?
Yes. The 100 million meme is a lie from the thoroughly debunked Black Book of Communism. The population of China doubled under Mao along with the life expectancy. The revosionist Khmer Rouge regime was backed by the CIA and overthrown by communist Vietnam.
>>13430609
>OY VEY 18 TRILLION PEOPLE STARVED UNDER THE EVIL COMMUNIST REGIME
Fuck off brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:45:09 2019 No.13430669 >>13421888 Beggars can't be choosers

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 01:46:01 2019 No.13430673 >>13430649 You got a source, Chaim? http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 25 03:39:31 2019 No.13431105 Why don't you just make and sell your own sandwiches then?

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/biz/ - Business & Finance