/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12941460]

Would an economy with UBI work in United States if a future president implemented it? Or would it just create more problems?

[Anonymous No.12941496]

Our welfare system is already abused too much and is a general strain.
Now increase the welfare, yes great idea

[Anonymous No.12941517]

>>12941496
fpbp and /thread

[Anonymous No.12941550]

>>12941496

Everybody would get it retard

[Anonymous No.12941556]

Won't matter in 20 years when robots will be producing all our items and maintaining the labor force. Good thing we don't have to pay robots so socialism can finally be implemented.

[Anonymous No.12941574]

>>12941460
People tend to vote for candidates that can improve their life.. If the majority of the population in the US find themselves in a situation where the only way they can improve their standard of living is to vote for the government to give them more money, then the democracy in the US will fail.. since the government can't usurp enough money from the producers to provide a middle-class-tier standard of living for the UBI-dependents.

[Anonymous No.12941622]

>>12941460
The main argument for UBI is that robots will take over and everyone will be out of work. However, we're nowhere near that point yet, so implementing UBI seems like putting the cart before the horse. Also, how do you calculate UBI? Does it completely replace welfare and food stamps? What about government services for, say, the disabled, or the elderly?

[Anonymous No.12941642]

Why does Leftypol keep spamming the buisnessboard? is it because they are angry losers that will never win in politics?

[Anonymous No.12941696]

>>12941496

>3.3 million more off food stamps
thanks trump!

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12941709]

>>12941496
ubi does not increase welfare necessarily.
for example one way would be to implement it is with a flat rate tax raised to 40-50%. for those working for min wage the ubi is basically tax exemption and a little bit of extra cash. for those without job it's the same as welfare. for those that make mad money it's just a means for naturally progressive taxation without brackets.

[Anonymous No.12941725]

>>12941460
i owed so much fucking money in taxes this year, while this girl i work with... who is a single mother of two, who actually lives not only WITH the children's father but also OFF of his own paycheck, receive over $10,000 this year.

[Anonymous No.12941732]

UBI will NEVER work while shitskins exist. you can't prove me wrong.

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12941733]

>>12941622
it would replace all that and pensions too where there are state pensions.

[Anonymous No.12941755]

>>12941733
I hadn't thought about pensions. How would existing pension contributions be dealt with? If I were actually implementing UBI I'd actually just raid those pension funds to prop up the program, but that's a cynical step that no UBI supporter would ever publicly advocate for.

[Anonymous No.12941769]

>>12941460
I'm secretly hoping they do it, just like you hope that obnoxious kid in class sticks a paper clip in the light socket.
I don't make much money, so there's only so much the leftists can squeeze outta me. But watching them completely ass-rape themselves with their own stupidity is just too good to pass up. Ten years from now when I'm making a lot more and some shitbird mentions UBI, the decent folks who are going to beat the fuck out of them will have a recent, real-life example to choke them with.

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12941787]

>>12941755
i have thought some about ubi and concluded the problems with it is not the funding part that is perfectly doable.

the problems are the long term effects of building complete dependency to the state for the majority of the population while this huge voting monster would keep the politicians hostage with demanding constant populist programs. i can't make up my mind if it would be a good thing to liberate people from the gut wrenching everyday worry of make ends meet. fighting for survival is a basic human need altho many don't see it. when you stop fighting depression and drug abuse comes.

[Anonymous No.12941798]

>>12941622
>The main argument for UBI is that robots will take over and everyone will be out of work.
This is the thing that boggles my mind, i think it is save to assume the robots are owned by a small fraction of the population, like you have less than 5% of the population owning the means of production and the Labour.
..and somehow they assume that you can easily snatch the wealth from these people and distribute it to the 95% of the population.

Furthermore, why wouldn't the military also become automated? in a future scenario with self-driving trucks, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you also have autonomous armed drones - these could also be privately owned.
In a world where a fraction of the people are in control of the means of production, the Labour and the military; these people either are on board with giving most of their money to the state or they indirectly accept it (not resisting or actively trying to limit their tax-burden).

[Anonymous No.12941807]

>>12941550
>50% receives bennies
>this is currently a strain
>100% now receives bennies
>this will alleviate the strain
anon who are you trying to fool

[Anonymous No.12941829]

>>12941798
At a certain point the distinction between business and government blurs because sufficiently powerful businesses can easily control governments via lobbying; plenty of legislation in governments across the world is actually written entirely by lobbyists working for some corporation or another.

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12941837]

>>12941807
it would never be a 100% most likely scenario os the 20-80 pareto ratio of productive vs non-productive humans. btw the real employment today is at 50% but that doesn't mean 50% gets gibs. mostly the other 50% support them directly or they are pensioners.

[Anonymous No.12941842]

>>12941642
They're all over the channels. You should see the fucking psyops they're playing on the poor bastards on r9k, it's enough to make you want to give /pol/ the keys to the car.

[Anonymous No.12941857]

>Who would pay for it?
If you think this you're an economics-cel and will be beaten into pulp

[Anonymous No.12941860]

>>12941460
>mfw the time of the neets has finally come

[Anonymous No.12941871]

Stop fighting UBI. It is the future

[Anonymous No.12941885]

>>12941709
are you insane? it took 50 years of social programming before the Swedes accepted that level of taxation, and even now they're beginning to buck that system what with all the New Swedes not paying in and increased federal interference in their comfy municipalities

[Anonymous No.12941888]

>>12941460
Yes, UBI would work, but only under a serious rework of how the government operates.

We currently collect $3.2 Trillion per year federally. That's enough to give everyone over the age of 18, $1000/mo.

So in practice the money goes in every adults pocket, ensuring they never starve and can maintain some sort of safety net.

The current system funnels the 3.2T we collect into the pockets of societies worst leeches. Single moms, niggers, doctors, boomers, and military contractors.

So yes, UBI would work but there is a massive swamp to drain that could only be done in a dictatorship, before it could be sucessfully implemented.

[Anonymous No.12941892]

>>12941460
stop thinking about automation as a problem we need to deal with and start thinking of it as a freedom we get to wield.

[Anonymous No.12941920]

>>12941837
All of this is correct, and this will end the same way Federal support of state Medicaid did: by making the state (citizen) subservient to the Fed lest its gibs get cut off

Why in God's name would anyone ever trust Washington

Why

[Anonymous No.12941927]

Implying the union wouldn't fight it? I put 15% of my income into pension (total comp, 8% out of my actual wage, 7 from employer). I'm hundreds of thousands into it and its fully funded and vested and managed by a non profit which does loan to the state since we have excess. At age 53 I will collect roughly if projections remain the same $4500 a month in "neet bux" UBI isn't going to be close nor is it right for them to role me over into UBI with already 15 years at damn near $25,000 a year invested into the pension.

[Anonymous No.12941938]

>>12941460
Not homogeneous enough for it to work

[Anonymous No.12941940]

>>12941888
checked, and even then it would just stretch out and then deepen the swamp while artificially increasing costs of basic shit because now everyone can afford products valued at 1 UBI

[Anonymous No.12942021]

>>12941940
>not understanding that prices are a function of supply and demand

Not gonna make it

[Anonymous No.12942133]

>>12941732
It could work when all the third world will be exploited for their workforce, thus increasing their living standards and putting them to NEET possibility levels.

If you look at society since the industrial revolution, it is first exploitation of workforce in dire condition (second half of the 19th century in england), then a second phase: wagecucking, not necessarily exhausting but depressing, and then the third phase is people wanting less and less to be cucks for a soulless company. In this third phase, NEETS emerge.

Africa is not even in the first phase

So it could happen when all thirdworlders are fed up of working, feeling that they are being exploited.

Currently they don't feel being exploited, they just complain that they don't have enough money. They still want to play the game of traditional industrial society (wages, working for a company, buying a rolex or a mercedes...). Company will just exploit them until they are fed up like some of us NEET. This would take at least decades.

[Anonymous No.12942134]

>>12941807
Your train of thought is dead on.
But I gotta wonder, if ...IF... we held the line on "UBI is the ONLY bennie, nothing more," then I think distributing it like this might work. (Mind you, I still think UBI is fucking stupid, but we already pay more than a middle-class income to a shit ton of people through a dozen separate entitlement programs as it is.)
But then again, I'm also the guy who thinks I'd sign on for "reparations" payments to blacks as long as we ALSO say "there ya go, there's your payout, you get fucking nothing else from here on out so enjoy life without welfare you've become addicted to over the last few decades."
Seems to me like UBI and reparations are fucking stupid ideas, and my thought of ditching all other benefits in a prisoner exchange for them is equally stupid. Ever looked at the Fair Tax, though? Seems it would actually give every motherfucker in the nation an incentive to cut spending and drop the tax rate, and get a lot of people who pay zero paying something in.

[Anonymous No.12942164]

>>12941938
the $1000 dollars doesn't reach me because of bix noods? Explain

[Anonymous No.12942228]

>>12942021

[Anonymous No.12942303]

>>12942021
what happens when demand goes up and supply stays the same?

[Anonymous No.12942311]

no it wouldn't work
fuck off you nigger communist

[Anonymous No.12942323]

I will give universal basic income 1/2 year until its not so universal anymore.
Another 1/2 for society to completely collaps.
Finnland has shown NO INCREASE in taking job opportunities during their study.
Finnland = 90% ethno.

[Anonymous No.12942329]

>>12941642

it's people like them (and policies like ubi and hating whites) that will hand trump the election though

[Anonymous No.12942340]

>>12941550
where would the money come from you fucking autistic neet?