Gold or Silver to buy?

[Anonymous No.12867829]

>Have £120 to spend

Gold or silver lads? Shit's gonna skyrocket post-brexit/crash

[Anonymous No.12867838]

>>12867829
Silver, bigger percentage gains.

[Anonymous No.12867888]

Silver Britania reporting in.

[Anonymous No.12867934]

>>12867888
Hello trip'o silver wisdom.
What is your financial advice for me?

[Anonymous No.12868100]

>>12867934
Solar power and electronics + production slowing down will push silver prices to the new ath.
Silver is the best electricity conducting metal, better than copper.

[Anonymous No.12868163]

>>12867829
>Have £120 to spend
You must be a grown up to post here.

[Anonymous No.12868165]

>>12868100
I have a load of silver already tho, want to diversify a bit

[Anonymous No.12868186]

the sound a bullion coin makes when flipped is top kino.

[Anonymous No.12868212]

>>12868165
why did you make this thread? Buying 120 worth of gold is almost pointless. Buy silver and never make one of these stupid threads again.

[Anonymous No.12868226]

Buy silver

[Anonymous No.12868236]

>>12868226
>>12868212
>>12868100
Silver it is I guess

[Anonymous No.12868239]

>>12867829
is this price good?
https://www.thesilvermountain.nl/nl/2019-1-troy-ounce-zilver-maple-leaf-munt
i live in the netherlands and i am not sure where to buy. trying to find out now

[Anonymous No.12868310]

>>12868239
https://www.europeanmint.com/mixed-1-10oz-uk-gold-britannia-coin/

130 Euro rn

[Anonymous No.12868325]

>>12868310
https://www.europeanmint.com/2019-1oz-canadian-silver-maple-leaf-coin/
ty seems good

[Anonymous No.12868365]

>>12868310
actually even though these guys
>>12868239
are more expensive the shipping is only 9 euro
as opposed to
>>12868325
60 euro

[Anonymous No.12868421]

>>12868365
I buy them via group orders, gets shipping down to like 2 quid

[Anonymous No.12868440]

>>12868421
Bullionbypost has free delivery

[Anonymous No.12868478]

>>12867829
BUY SILVER OR GET REKT

Quick silver metal rundown
>highest reflectivity
>highest electrical
conductivity
>highest thermal conductivity
>finite
>currency for thousands of years
>has very important used
>phones, cars, mirrors, computers, solar panels, medicine etc etc
>miners closing up shop because unprofitable
>silver to gold mined ratio, 9:1
>1 oz of gold = 83 ounces of silver
>future is electronic technology, which needs silver
>$50/oz spot in 1980
>$15/oz spot 2019

But why is silver spot so low?
>EVERYTHING THEY DO WITH SILVER THEY DO TO GOLD/OIL/OTHER REM
>paper futures derivatives markets
>markets were created to allow options in paper silver
>on the precedent of following the actual commodity price
>investment bankers like JPM rigged this to make it reverse, futures derivatives market determines the physical commodity spot price
>bankers have large foothold in derivatives market
>they in effect control manipulation of not only the futures paper trading, but also the physical market too
>they short futures market, while accumulating up physical for a rigged severely undervalued price that they kept low on purpose through manipulation of the futures market
>JPM owns 800 million physical ounces
>JPM former commodities trader guilty plead
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/ex-jp-morgan-trader-pleads-guilty-to-manipulating-metals-markets.html
>”John Edmonds, 36, pleaded guilty to one count of commodities fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, price manipulation and spoofing.
Edmonds, a 13-year J.P. Morgan veteran, said that he learned how to manipulate prices from more senior traders and that his supervisors at the firm knew of his actions.”

>>>MUST LISTEN<<<
>Silver market manipulation confirmation
https://youtu.be/wLqH12A9UT0

[Anonymous No.12868515]

>>12868478
(((they))) are sliding REM threads AT ALL COSTS!

JP Morgan has over 800 million physical ounces of silver. They control the entire goddamn physical AND derivatives markets and have the capability to pump at any second.

Silver to gold mind is a 9 to 1 ratio for every 9 ounces of silver that comes out of the ground 1 ounce of gold comes out. The sell price of silver is at 87 to 1 ounce of gold. 87 ounces of silver by 1 ounce of gold.

Gold has little industrial uses and is not used in really anything other than cosmetics and store of value, small electronic usage. Silver, on the other hand, is used in cars phones electrical components industrial infrastructure computers etc. etc. etc.

Silver miners have been dropping off a cliff because at the current spot price it’s becoming profitable to mine. What happens when there’s a short supply of silver due to low mining prospects and apple tesla Samsung all major companies need this sets over to conduct business and make products?

The crooks at JP Morgan are fucking brilliant they’re going to pump this price and make an easy hundred X in no time the reason they haven’t manipulated the price upwards is because they’re still accumulating physical silver this shits fucking going to $1000 an ounce.

>inb4 DOOMSDAYFAG
This shit WILL pump regardless of doomsday financial collapse or not

My personal theory?
THEY ARE ACCUMULATING ALL RARE EARTH METALS TO SELL TO ALIENS

[Anonymous No.12868539]

Fellow burgers where do you buy physical silver?

[Anonymous No.12868576]

>>12868539
Anything under 100 ounces? In store coin dealers

Anything over 100 ounces? SDbullion

[Anonymous No.12868589]

Only have 35 ounces here and can't afford anymore. I'm not gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.12868597]

>>12868589
Ounces of silver*

[Anonymous No.12868617]

>>12868576
Thanks for the quick response fren. If I’m buying in person, how can I best tell if the store and the coins they’re selling are legit? Besides checking reviews and as much info online as I can.

[Anonymous No.12868653]

>>12867829
just buy gold ETF or silver ETF via an ISA.
This negates benefits of CGT and VAT exempt coins as ISA gains can't be taxed.
Much easier.
Unless you think the world economy is literally going to implode, then buy the physical stuff.

[Anonymous No.12868727]

>>12868515
my god you had an actually credible post until your personal theory sent you to the doomer camp. just buy silver and don't look too much into market control because every single commodity on earth is manipulated (some more than others) whether you like it or not. The worst being diamonds but that's the most jewish example I have. Diamonds are a virtually worthless rock whose only value is how hard the rock is and it's ability to refract light. Look at Israel's exports by % and you will discover exactly why diamonds are so heavily manipulated. Silver and gold are in a similar position but the largest holders of silver are actually the masses and not corporations or governments. Gold is a different story.

[Anonymous No.12868740]

>>12867829
C O P P E R

[Anonymous No.12868755]

>>12868617
Most coin stores have machines that test silver and gold purity. It's very rare that they will purchase, and in turn sell, fake silver. Suggestion: Don't buy generic silver because it's much harder to get rid of come time. The more reputable the mint the easier it is to sell above spot.

[Anonymous No.12868855]

For europeans:

What is the best online dealer?
They have great prices but the shipping costs brings it to the same price as buying localy.
Ordering together with friends to split the shipping cost may be the only way to go.

[Anonymous No.12869950]

>>12868740
How much are you holding of it? It takes so much space.

[Anonymous No.12869979]

>>12868855
europeanmint

[Anonymous No.12870005]

>>12868539
I avoid local coin shops because they jack their prices up like any other mom and pop shop. You want good deals online buy at jmbullion, sdbullion, providentmetals, bullionexchanges, boldpreciousmetals and apmex. I buy from all those listed to find the best prices.

[Anonymous No.12870036]

>>12869979
I also found goldsilver.be (also VAT free)
which comes cheaper since shipping costs are lower.

Ordering alone from these online sellers still makes it only ~~15€ cheaper compared to buying from a local dealer (worth ~800€ of silver).
Also I am not anonymous and have to be at home during the delivery.

[Anonymous No.12870087]

>>12867829
Gold, no CG taxes unlike silver which has CG taxes AND VAT. Silver unironically needs to double to make anything

[Anonymous No.12870536]

>>12867838
This. You get more for your money and it's more undervalued than gold. I have a couple of 1/10th ounces of gold but only because I like the idea of saying that I "own gold" the rest is all in silver.

[Anonymous No.12870547]

>>12867829
https://www.bittopper.com/item/1997-uk-present-great-britain/

[Anonymous No.12870561]

>>12867829
If you are only investing 120$ then go with silver. 120$ of gold can easily get lost. Plus silver have more movement for the dollar.

[Anonymous No.12870591]

>>12868589
I've probably got about 30-35 ounces in physical silver and another 12 ounces in ETF's. Plus another 100 ounces or so that I'm going to inherit from my grandmother when she eventually passes (God forbid).

[Anonymous No.12870792]

>>12868478
Btw any sources on the 800 million ounces of JPM i found nothing solid,would love to see where does that number come from,some say they are just acting as a front for russia and China, some say it's just paper futures etc etc I'd love more info

[Anonymous No.12871041]

so whats a good amount of silver to sit on? is 100 ounces enough? generally speaking, if you are doing this for an investment, what amount would be worth the effort?

[Anonymous No.12871064]

>>12870036
>Also I am not anonymous and have to be at home during the delivery.

This part creeps me out about buying silver and gold, either online or in person. It's creepy AF that there are people clearly seeing that you are buying a small bagful of metals.
How does this work? Is there any way to stay reasonably private?

[Anonymous No.12871123]

>>12867829
silver fucking tarnishes.

Gold, Platinum, Palladium, Rare earth Metals.

I mean cmon. It's not fucking 1870. We have better metals now.

[Anonymous No.12871176]

>>12868478
>$50/oz in 1980

Sorry bud you lost me there. I am a stacker, but that stat is just misleading. Learn about the hunt brothers trying to corner the market
>>12868727
Holy shit I knew diamonds were worthless but I didn’t know Israel was a big exporter. Thanks for the red pill

[Anonymous No.12871285]

>>12868727
>he doesnt believe aliens exist >>12870792
Read ted butlers stuff, or listen to the YouTube vid of him talking
i linked, he laid it out.
>>12871176
The fuck? Are you actually denying the 50/oz price? You could have sold $100/oz if u cashed out at the very top. It was over $50 for MONTHS.

Get out of silver, you don’t deserve to make it

[Anonymous No.12871305]

>>12867829
>Shit's gonna skyrocket post-brexit/crash
Everyone knows that everyone else thinks this, and the actual price curve will have those expectations built into it

[Anonymous No.12871428]

>>12871285
I didn’t deny that it was $50/oz. I just said that it was misleading which is true. It was a massively overvalued bubble due to market manipulation by some billionaires. If you want a case for a bullrun just point to 2011 prices because 1980 will probably never happen again

[Anonymous No.12871439]

>>12867829
https://youtu.be/5JT0Kq01CFg

https://youtu.be/WsfZsiGjkcU

[Anonymous No.12872065]

>>12871064
I mean it's not rocket science.

If you buy online they need your address to ship it. You also need to pay for the metals through wire transfer or credit card. Obviously not anonymous.

Physical retailer you can pay in cash and they don't keep any of your personal information, besides date/time of purchase and corresponding security camera footage that will only be used in criminal investigations.

[Anonymous No.12872084]

Is it worth getting Queens beast The Griffin from the royal mint for $90? 2 oz of silver. Crazy premium. The Lion is around $60.

Or is just Benie babies?

I usually buy AUS Perth mint 1 oz coins for $17ish

[Anonymous No.12872305]

>>12872084
>unlimited mintage
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Beasts_(coin)

[Anonymous No.12872325]

>>12872084
my man if you're paying anything more than 18$ an oz of silver right now you're doing it wrong. Fuck the pretty shit.

[Anonymous No.12872488]

>>12868515
Let's say silver did go to $1000 per ounce, would you sell your stack and buy a house?

[Anonymous No.12872660]

>>12871176

the price now is close to what it was when the Hunt brothers started when you account for inflation, that $50 ATH would be more like $150 today

[Anonymous No.12872705]

>>12872065
I don’t know man, I’m wary of showing my face buying gold in person. I’m paranoid enough to believe that there are career criminals specializing in watching the people entering places like that.

[Anonymous No.12872723]

>>12872065
>cash
You guys are so spoiled. My country practically doesn’t have cash anymore. Cashless society ftw.

[Anonymous No.12872871]

>>12871428
Silver will go to 250/oz minimum >>12872488
Going that high means purchasing power of the $ is nothing, in that case just straight up trade it for land/assets, similar to how the guy in germany bought a whole city block with 2 dozen ounces of gold.

We buy silver for its use cases and its ratio to silver

This is the bottom of the bottom, we’ll probably never see this 80+:1 ratio ever again. It should correct and be atleast 9:1 (the mining ratio)or even lower because silver is much more used. Tech needs silver

[Anonymous No.12873203]

How do you sell once you own?

[Anonymous No.12873210]

should I buy krugerands or straight up bullion

[Anonymous No.12873471]

Bump

[Anonymous No.12873602]

yuro fag here. I was looking to buy from www.coininvest.com as they seem to have the best prices when i claculate in shipping and tax and all of that.

Has anyone bought here before, is this website legit ??

What coins do you guys recommend are austrian philharmonics a good choice ?

When do you expect silver to go up ? Once there is a crash ? What if there is no crash ?

[Anonymous No.12874059]

>>12873602
Western europe here too
They have near the same prices as my local dealer + extra shipping + being not anon when buying.
goldsilver.be and europeanmint.com are cheaper

Philharmonics have an pretty good name and state since they are well known.
I will stick the athen owl since they are the cheapest.

[Anonymous No.12874151]

>>12874059
I'm from Slovenia so we have 20% VAT here if you buy from local dealers. I will probably order from the mint.

Do you guys think once prices skyrocket will local dealers decide not to buy the silver back ?

[Anonymous No.12874167]

>>12874151
sheiiiiit even on coins?
That is not cool.

[Anonymous No.12874171]

>>12874059
Goldsilver.be is anonymous or not ? Im buying in the pajeet agora of brussels numagold ( a bit expensive) but the best for me is still gold4ex.be

[Anonymous No.12874173]

>>12874167
Yeah when you buy you pay 20% VAT but here's the trick when you sell there is not VAT so you have to gain 20% just in order to be even, never mind making a profit.

So i'm looking at online VAT free options. Where are you from fren ?

[Anonymous No.12874190]

when you buy physical coins that are at your house how do you resell them

[Anonymous No.12874197]

>>12874171
no online dealer is anonymous.
They need your adress + bank wiring

>>12874173
Austria with 7% VAT on coins

[Anonymous No.12874238]

>>12868100
Can you elaborate how production slowing down raises the price of silver?

[Anonymous No.12874250]

>>12867888
Checked, I have two just for the pleasure of holding them and feeling the weight. They increased £4 since I got em lulz

[Anonymous No.12874497]

>>12874238
If supply & demand are foreign to you you should probably not think about investing

[Anonymous No.12875101]

is it better to have physical silver or to have silver stocks considering all the extra costs of acquiring physical silver

[Anonymous No.12875141]

>>12867888
i want to buy some because they look really good , but i know i'll just be loosing money since they cost more

[Anonymous No.12875144]

>>12875101
always better to have the real thing

[Anonymous No.12875467]

>>12872871
how do u know that the price of gold is not inflated instead of silver being underpriced

[Anonymous No.12875590]

>>12875467
Because there is less gold then is really being bought and sold

[Anonymous No.12875653]

>>12868855
>For europeans:
>What is the best online dealer?
Just check prices on gold.de
German precious metals market is the most vicious with most price competition in Europe.

[Anonymous No.12875696]

>>12874173
>when you buy you pay 20% VAT but here's the trick when you sell there is not VAT so you have to gain 20% just in order to be even, never mind making a profit.
Not true.
When everybody has to pay Vat it is priced in in the secondary market.
When I buy and sell privately I do most transactions at the median price between dealers offer and sale price so the Vat becomes irrelevant. You only lose like half of the Vat one you buy straight from the coin dealer.

[Anonymous No.12876158]

>>12875696
So you could actually make money from bringing in gold from Australia which has no VAT and sell it for 10%more in Europe. Just drill a hole through the bullion and wear it as jewelry

[Anonymous No.12876175]

>>12876158
if you manage to evade customs

[Anonymous No.12876182]

>>12872705
Are you 15 or something? You sound really naive. A regular PM store are not career criminals, they are business people who want to sell your stuff just like every other other store. Are you afraid that the electronics store is going to come hunt you down for your new Samsung phone??

If you are so scared that somebody is going to watch you go in, you can, you know, stand outside somewhere nearby and wait and observe the area until nobody is watching you and then go in.

Listen you don't have to be James Bond to buy fucking shiny rocks lmao. Most people don't even realize it's worth anything.

Watch these videos and you will see how silly your fears are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndshbH3qZ6Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgUxF7gvYeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gmp2IqReFQ

[Anonymous No.12876216]

In a age of digital money, no one is going to buy your metal. Just stop.

[Anonymous No.12876437]

>>12876216

Debt & Meme coins

yep that is better than gold...

I guess countries should sell their gold hoards for Bitcoin

[Anonymous No.12876745]

>>12875653
>http://www.silber-corner.de/de/Silber/-stark-reduziert-
JO LECK MICH AM ORSCH
16.28 per oz
If something looks too good to be true it is most likely a scam.
Can other anons confirm that shop?
Shipping costs is also dirt cheap compared to other shops.

[Anonymous No.12876761]

>>12876182
kek when I was reading this I knew exactly what vids you were going to post

[Anonymous No.12876831]

>>12876216
Back to your chainlink thread retard

[Anonymous No.12876882]

>>12868515
>>12871439

This is the dumbest shit I ever heard. I've heard shills shilling REQ or 0xBTC with more plausible arguments.

[Anonymous No.12876894]

>>12875467
the real questions is, why the fuck does he think that a ratio of silver supply to gold supply shoudl determine their relative prices? Doesnt he know prices are set through supply AND demand? This "valuation" for silver is the dumbest shit I've ever seen.

[Anonymous No.12876933]

>>12876882
>>12876894
Kys paid shill this shit is being suppressed

[Anonymous No.12876978]

>>12876745
They have been around some time.
I remember buying from them back in 2009.

[Anonymous No.12877002]

>>12876978
ok, checked their price against from my local dealer, the difference is ~10€ in total
Such deals are only great when I can buy directly from the shop without shipping :(

[Anonymous No.12877005]

>>12876933
yea and I bet big oil is trying to get the SEC to stop Tesla because muhhh conspiracy.

Get a real job besides shilling.

[Anonymous No.12877007]

>>12871123
>>12876882
>>12876894
Sure definitely not a JPMorgan employee

http://www.usdebtclock.org/gold-precious-metals.html

[Anonymous No.12877028]

>>12867829
>£120 to spend
You'll be better of buying shitcoins or pennystocks.

[Anonymous No.12877302]

>>12876216
this is an 18+ board pablo

[Anonymous No.12877646]

>>12877007
this "JPM has conspired to suppress the price of silver" conspiracy has been around for at least a decade. I remember hearing it in 2007 or so.

The truth is, the futures markets can totally be used to manipulate prices. The reason that silverbugs are stupid though, is believing that for some reason, the manipulation is suddenly going to stop.

Silver is never going to go bullrun. Unless the dollar hugely devalues, in which case other real assets will probably outperform silver in terms of USD.

[Anonymous No.12877657]

How do you even sell silver if it moons?

[Anonymous No.12877804]

>>12877657
Go to your LCS and sell it, or if you have a big enough stack APMEX will buy it

[Anonymous No.12878287]

>>12877657

I have the same question. I was thinking ebay but they take a 9-13% cut. There is craigslist and those sites but i dont know of this is the best eay. Silver and gold shop near me pays 1$ below spot but if it moons i dont know if that will still hold true.

[Anonymous No.12878418]

>>12877646
Wrong and very cucked viewpoint of the world. The banks are powerful but far from omnipotent. The lid can only be kept on so long. Once there’s a financial crisis the charade ends and the short squeeze will rocket silver like a geyser

[Anonymous No.12878443]

>>12877657
>>12878287
exactly. This is why stacking silver is retarded, and physical silver is only useful for the DOOM scenario where the economy completely collapses due to an ebola pandemic, and even then food, guns and medical supplies are gunna be alot more useful.

Or you could trade silver futures on the CME, where the spreads are thin and the liquidity is thick. But then that would be enriching JPmorgan or some other stupid silver stacker conspiracy theory.

All that being said, I have some Liberty oz's cuz they are cool. That's about all they are though.

[Anonymous No.12878450]

>>12878443
Cringe and cuckpilled

[Anonymous No.12878499]

>>12878418
the short squeeze? LMAO.

you clearly have no idea how futures work. Or what short squeezes are, for that matter.

Seriously, what type of catalyst is going to drive people insanely mad for SILVER? For god's sake we just witnessed bitcoin go from 1200 to 20,000 and back. It had everything going for it: new technology, retail investors, fractional purchasing so small fish can get exposure, ceaseless round the clock news coverage to stoke the mania.

Now imagine, what in the world is going to make everyone suddenly want to dump all their money for silver?

I'm waiting.

[Anonymous No.12878514]

>>12878443
What if we will get a second Weimar Republic?
Not a Doom scenario and way more possible.

[Anonymous No.12878598]

>>12878514
not sure what you mean by " a second weimar republic"... but if you mean "the banking class decides to hyperinflate away the nation's debts", then sure, maybe the silver in your vault will do relatively well. In that scenario though, owning a business (stocks) would do much, much better than silver, which is exactly what happened in weimar germany. The debts of companies vanished with inflation, and so equity holders made out like bandits. At the time European vacation spots were filled with german businesspeople who were living filthy rich from the inflation.

One large concern though, is protecting your silver stack when a horde of soulless weimar bohemians come crushing into your home.

And dont forget that in the US, FDR literally made it illegal to own gold as a private citizen. He forced everyone to sell their gold to the gov for 25$ an oz, then sold it back to them at 35$ an oz, and pocketed the difference and put it into the Exchange stabilization fund.

What is stopping future government's from doing exactly this? Stacking metal in your basement is not an investment, it's lunacy.

[Anonymous No.12878647]

i have 50$ on me what the fug do I buy

[Anonymous No.12878662]

>>12867829
Gold is to hold onto what you have and quietly make your next move.

If you want to see some growth along the way, I'd go silver.

[Anonymous No.12878694]

>>12878662

>trust me, silver is a growth play

lmao

You kids use these words but you dont understand what they mean.

[Anonymous No.12878708]

can anybody spot a long term trend here?

[Anonymous No.12878711]

>>12878647
This weeks groceries poorfag.

[Anonymous No.12879026]

>>12878598
FDR outlawed citizens owning gold because the US dollar was gold backed at the time. They couldn’t inflate the money supply so they made everyone sell their gold for less than it was worth. Now it isn’t backed by anything so I don’t see this happening again

[Anonymous No.12879553]

digital gold (BTC)
physical silver

[Anonymous No.12879708]

>>12878598
Most americans didnt comply faggot.

[Anonymous No.12880045]

>>12878499
When all the jews get kicked out again and they take their paper money with them.

[Anonymous No.12880073]

>>12878598
>reddit spacing

[Anonymous No.12880175]

>>12879708
Citation needed.

>>12880073
Is that the best u got?

[Anonymous No.12880241]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but do coin shops exchange silver coins to gold coins? Do I need to pay taxes if I do that?

[Anonymous No.12880638]

I just bought presale silver, idk what this means can anyone help? it says its on its way to my house though

[Anonymous No.12880917]

>>12876894
>This "valuation" for silver is the dumbest shit I've ever seen.
you should be saying that about how the daily spot price is fixed

[Anonymous No.12881346]

>>12878647

[Anonymous No.12882352]

Should I post it again?
I'm posting it again.

[Anonymous No.12882751]

>>12874173

I don't see how buying coins adds value but ok

[Anonymous No.12882899]

buy these if you can find them
only 67 exist

[Anonymous No.12883228]

go long gold mid-March, price should drop for a while yet until back at 1,300

[Anonymous No.12883318]

>>12867829
>Gold and silver will skyrocket after brexit/crash

I swear to God all of you say that.
ALL of you.
Can't wait to see if you're all so right.

[Anonymous No.12883875]

>>12881346
>>12881346
>>12882352
Very cool kanye

[Anonymous No.12883913]

Both

Pic related my stack

[Anonymous No.12883955]

>>12883913
Mirin'
500oz of silver myself, looking at getting more though

[Anonymous No.12884588]

>>12883913
Nice stack, I don’t even have a half oz of gold yet

[Anonymous No.12884651]

>>12883913
>Inner jew want me to buy gold
>Brain tells me i should wait the dip

[Anonymous No.12884792]

6 more ounces added to my stack today! I bought some Maples and Brits.

[Anonymous No.12884802]

>>12883913
how much did you pay for those Pandas?