/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12576247]

Universal basic income when?

[Anonymous No.12576261]

>>12576247
when the fatass russian is ready

[Anonymous No.12576265]

Hopefully soon I want to be paid to be a NEET

[Anonymous No.12576266]

>>12576247
when sznxp.io launches OP

[Anonymous No.12576286]

>>12576247
right after you kiss my nuts

[Anonymous No.12576289]

unironically when a robot workforce gets large enough to become taxed

[Anonymous No.12576290]

>>12576247
About 5 years before we're eating each other.

[Anonymous No.12576296]

>>12576290
This. When UBI is there, you know it's 5 minutes before midnight and you gotta leave as quick as possible.

[Anonymous No.12576320]

>>12576247
Its about time really. UBI is a human right

[Anonymous No.12576327]

>>12576320
BASE

[Anonymous No.12576335]

Everyone supporting this shit is literally a double digit IQ moron

[Anonymous No.12576345]

People who support UBI get the rope, too.

[Anonymous No.12576346]

>>12576335
if the average iq is 100 then half the people are under it
and you have 30+ million illegals too that regardless of iq will vote the wrong way
better get ready to that tasty civil war

[Anonymous No.12576359]

>>12576335
>>12576345
Found the wage slaves, what does your boss's shit taste like kid?

[Anonymous No.12576372]

>>12576289
>unironically when a robot workforce gets large enough to become taxed

I doesn't work that way. All this translates to is taxing the person who uses the robots more.

[Anonymous No.12576384]

>>12576261
Can't have UBI without decentralized oracle network

[Anonymous No.12576407]

>>12576359
It tastes amazing and I'll keep gorging on his steaming hot shit as long as it's not kosher meanwhile as I get rawdogged in the ass by his mayo white shareholders

[Anonymous No.12576476]

Would this be bullish or bearish for BTC?

[Anonymous No.12576543]

>>12576476
Bullish. UBI will devalue fiat with hyperinflation.

[Anonymous No.12576566]

>>12576247
And where is the money for that coming from? The companies who automate their processes are doing so in order to increase profits. If you remove that incentive through taxation, they'll just leave and do it elsewhere. The alternative is nationalization, which is the same as death, really.

[Anonymous No.12576571]

>>12576247
Thank god

[Anonymous No.12576578]

can't wait to stand alongside you lads on the battlefield

[Anonymous No.12576584]

>>12576359
Read how basic economics work.
If literally everyone gets an amount X of money for free the prices will also go up.
You dont have to be a genius to understand that

[Anonymous No.12576588]

>>12576566
You redistribute spending power or whatever you call it (money used by consuming classes). But you don't redistribute actual capital. Otherwise you'd cause inflation, because the capitalists can simply increase the prices of products in case taxes are increased, no?

[Anonymous No.12576611]

>>12576584
>If literally everyone gets an amount X of money for free the prices will also go up.

That is kind of like saying that if we can garuntee everyone gets at least a shitty job and we experience 100% employment for everyone then the economy would collapse.

[Anonymous No.12576642]

>>12576247
ONLY 48?
Anyways, I'm all in.
78%of full time workers live paycheck to paycheck.
50% of renters spend over 30% of their income on rent. Of those, half (25%) spend over 50% of their income on rent.
Also, pic related. It's pretty shitty most places.

Nationwide, 62 percent of jobs pay either hardship wages (aka can't survive on your own) or livable wages (can't save for shit) so only 38 percent of jobs are good aka middle class and up (well in terms of pay, not even considering quality of life. Example, lawyers make bank, but work life 60+ hrs a week on the norm making it shit in my eyes).

[Anonymous No.12576659]

>>12576247
how much will each individual get from UBI. also what is described as a "living wage"? does that mean cityfags would get a lot more than countrycucks?

[Anonymous No.12576663]

>>12576611
You dont seem to understand my point.
As I said, read how basic economics work. The ones who profit from an UBI are the ones who are already employed, NEETS will be worse off after the prise level gets adjusted, since other social funds will be cut/deleted.

[Anonymous No.12576666]

>>12576247
I'm all for it, as a negative income tax.

https://youtu.be/xtpgkX588nM

[Anonymous No.12576675]

>>12576611
You’d have a lot of useless jobs that are a waste.

[Anonymous No.12576698]

>UBI gets implemented
>everybody stops working
>no goods are produced
>????
>Profit

[Anonymous No.12576706]

A decade or two before the collapse of Western society.

[Anonymous No.12576717]

>>12576663
> The ones who profit from an UBI are the ones who are already employed, NEETS will be worse off after the prise level gets adjusted, since other social funds will be cut/deleted.

This is a lot like saying if every neet suddenly got a semi succesful Youtube/Twitch channel then all of a sudden the economy would collapse. I think you are vastly over estimating how much a free shitty pay check will actually do to the cost of living.

In poor areas where the median income is very low maybe I can see the cost of living going up slightly. But places like Manhattan will barely fucking give a shit at all. Nothing would change.

[Anonymous No.12576719]

anything that operates under the guise of common good will always be a scam

[Anonymous No.12576727]

>>12576588
Did you just counter propose with another, more-convoluted tax?

[Anonymous No.12576728]

>>12576675
>You’d have a lot of useless jobs that are a waste.

You missed my point. I am saying that when people say that a UBI will rekt the economy the same could be said for 100% employment.

[Anonymous No.12576730]

>>12576719
>cures for diseases are a scam

woke af

[Anonymous No.12576739]

>>12576698
>>everybody stops working

People would have to offer more money for the same job.

[Anonymous No.12576741]

>>12576247
It's been tried, and abandoned, in:
>Finland
>Netherlands
>Canada
It's not gonna happen you faggots.

[Anonymous No.12576742]

>>12576739
which would make everything more expensive and nullify UBI wouldnt it?

[Anonymous No.12576743]

>>12576739
But why work? If UBI is designed to cover your basic needs then even if the price rises UBI has to as well. There is no reason to work because by its definition it will take care of your basic needs.

[Anonymous No.12576746]

>>12576728
100% employment already was a thing. In shithole, eastern yuro communist countries. Didnt work too well.
>>12576717
UBI means that everyone gets paid, not just neets. If everyone has more money they buy more and prices go up.
Where is money for ubi even supposed to come from? Not that Im against the idea but supporters seem to have 0 understanding of economics.

[Anonymous No.12576747]

UBI is the dumbest meme ever. how about lowering taxes and letting me keep some of my income instead of redistributing even more money. I dont want to feed niggers with my money reeee
>t. eurofag with 70-80% tax burden

[Anonymous No.12576765]

>>12576747
Taxes are mostly just a way to take purchasing power away from wise consumers and give it to unwise consumers.

[Anonymous No.12576773]

https://youtu.be/kl39KHS07Xc

[Anonymous No.12576778]

Guys.... we can't even afford ubi for people over 65. Let that sink in. It just doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.12576779]

It will turn the lower classes into leeches expecting and and dependent on handouts. Eventually it will get harder and harder to fund, like the soldiers' salaries at the end of the Roman empire. Any politician who moves to lower the UBI once it's in place will be opposed by the mob, those promoting more handouts will have mob support, and democracy will drive itself into ruin.

[Anonymous No.12576781]

>>12576773
>wouldn't need to work
You guys need to watch this vid.

[Anonymous No.12576787]

>>12576779
>>12576773

[Anonymous No.12576823]

>>12576779
They already are leeches and getting handouts. UBI would simplify it. Make it cheaper. Couple that to automation indexm and boom. You got it.

[Anonymous No.12576824]

>>12576566
>they'll just leave and do it elsewhere.
This.
Unless everyone, and I mean EVERYONE (so impossible), got on board companies literally only exist to make money. They're 100% amoral entities. Congrats, you've cucked yourself and now Africa will literally Wakanda itself.

[Anonymous No.12576838]

>>12576742
>which would make everything more expensive and nullify UBI wouldnt it?

It depends.
We have to assume most jobs wont exist anyway. Higher costs creates an incentive to automate the job. So now Bob who was going to do a shitty job for a shitty pay check has been automated and now Bob just gets a free shitty pay check instead.

You also have to keep in mind that with a UBI you have to get rid of the minimum wage. So in somecases you can get away with paying people less. Bob does find a shitty job but makes 4 dollars an hour on top of his free shitty pay check.

It also creates more liquidity in the market in general giving anyone who is good at marketing a chance to slurp up money from free shitty pay check people that didn't exist before.

>>12576746
>100% employment already was a thing. In shithole, eastern yuro communist countries. Didnt work too well.

Well a UBI would basically be equivalent to 100% employment... At least in terms of who gets a pay check every week.

>>12576746
>Where is money for ubi even supposed to come from?

We would downsize the fuck out of the government and replace most social programs with this one simple system. Literally just gut the fuck out of everything. No more welfare, no healthcare nothing. All of that complicated inefficient garbage we have going on right now would have to be gutted completely.

A UBI would actually be cheaper overall to fund.

>>12576779
>It will turn the lower classes into leeches expecting and and dependent on handouts.

We would need to pretty much end all immigration and put in super high limits to who can get the UBI. Something like 4rth generation Americans only.

[Anonymous No.12576842]

>>12576823
It comes down to this really. Yang is proposing an "opt-in' version, meaning you forgo every other from of assistance when you sign up for it, which is good but the ideal would be a replacement for the entire welfare system. Allow an option for some of it to contribute to tax breaks or a retirement fund, kinda like that Singapore does, that would be ideal. 3 birds with one stone

[Anonymous No.12576853]

UBI is a drug dealers dream.

[Anonymous No.12576858]

>>12576642
>lawyers make bank, but work life 60+ hrs a week on the norm making it shit in my eyes
Same. This STEM/Law/Medicine/CS shit doesn't appeal to be at all. If you want to 'make it' and get that six figures, you need to basically sell your soul (imo).
Now if those are your calling, your vocation that you love and live and breath because it speaks to you, then good on you my man, I fully support you and I'm sure you in fact love 60+ hour weeks and wish you could do more (and you probably do).

But.

If you are only doing it for the money, then fuck me surely there are better ways?

Example: I love film. I love volunteering to help local groups, I've worked on some big movies, and doing a 12 hour day for three months straight while exhausting, I fucking relished. I could not wait to create and execute a vision and a story for others to enjoy.

Sadly when that work dries up (it's show business), I go back to my office drone role and want to kms by 11am Mon to Fri. It actually pays more (when averaged out), but I literally cannot sleep on Sunday nights anymore because the prospect of going back to The Hive make me mentally ill.

>TL;DR
Defining QoL is mostly subjective and context objective.

[Anonymous No.12576861]

>>12576588
Oh no it's someone with blue hair

[Anonymous No.12576868]

>>12576741
>abandoned
False.
Don't lie and misuse words.
It was only ever intended as a limited experiment.
The experiment was concluded and deemed successful within its parameters.
Alas, a flat-UBI would not work in America.
In Australia we effectively have a means tested UBI already.

[Anonymous No.12576875]

>>12576853
Legalize drugs by the state. Make heavy users go to special places. tax the sales. Drug dealers btfo.

[Anonymous No.12576879]

The main issues with UBI is that

1. We need automation to not be a meme. We seriously need some robots doing shit and we need most jobs to be automated or this shit cant work.

2. We need to convince retarded leftists to downsize the fuck out of the government and we need to make the system extremely simple.

Number 2 aint going to happen. Leftists are fucking RETARDED and they will do EVERYTHING they can to not gut the government. They will demand all kinds of complicated bullshit like if Latrice has 4 bastards she gets more UBI then White Boy Bob. The Jews will turn this shit into a money farm.

The only way a UBI can work is if its implemented perfectly. GOOD FUCKING LUCK. The only other actual option for a UBI would be a crypto based UBI but you have to have some kind of system to make sure one person cannot have more than one account. Solve that one issue and a decentralized UBI is possible.

Make a decentralized white male only UBI so you can trigger the fuck out of BUZZFEED or some shit.

[Anonymous No.12576889]

>>12576879
Index the automation. Tax the companies with robot tax. Its so damn simple. Today people get layed off cause of robots. Losing their damn job. Huge profits for the boss. Its unsustainable. Robots doing shit is already happening. Wake the fuck up boomer dinosaur oldfag

[Anonymous No.12576908]

Elimination of section 8, food stamps, cash assistance, earned income credit, subsidized tuition, free child care, and programs too numerous to name in exchange for $1000/ month would cost the typical welfare recipient about $3100/ month in free shit, and displace most of the government workforce. Without an accompanying draconian eugenics program and roving crowd control kill bots in the urban cores (and Floridian trailer parks), ubi, and the notion of everyone being free to self actualize for the betterment of humanity, is Trotskyist fairy tale.

[Anonymous No.12576928]

>>12576247
How do you finance it?

Who will be privileged to receive UBI? The people of your country? What about other countries. What about illigal immigrants? What about the 100childs of Ahmed? WE have seen what happened in Europe...now think 100times worse. This would happen to the first country launching a nation wide UBI.

[Anonymous No.12576931]

>>12576908
Self improvement is the only way to fly. The american dream. You boomer fags only want benefits for yourself and your own family soon you will have nothing anymore matk my words. Call me a commie is all you got. No room for debate nothing. You already pay taxes to the government you turd. Most of that is going to the military to bomb brown people for fossil fuels and currencies. Wake the fuck up cracker.

[Anonymous No.12576932]

>>12576889
>Its unsustainable.

You don't have a reason to live. Its perfectly sustainable. Nobody owes you a fucking life. Die in the streets like an animal while the technocracy flourishes.

>>12576889
>Wake the fuck up boomer dinosaur oldfag

Just because the future doesn't include poor fags doesn't make it unsustainable. The only things not sustainable is when people who matter over extend themselves and blow their valuable time and wealth on people who suck at existence to a point where nobody can pay the bills. That's when sustainability comes into the equation.

HAHA If every poor person fucking vanished tomorrow society would be fucking fine. It would be BETTER OFF actually.

The only viable argument now for UBI is that shit is so fucked up that its better than continuing the current bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12576936]

>>12576868
THIS. They were implemented as a test run. That anon is just lying to push his agenda of anti ubi.

[Anonymous No.12576939]

>>12576928
Everyone gets it. Everyone. Joe. Lucy liu. Chang. Achmed.andullah. tyrone. Staisy. Honkey. Everyone gets it. And it will cost nothing.

[Anonymous No.12576940]

>>12576932
>The only viable argument now for UBI is that shit is so fucked up that its better than continuing the current bullshit.

This srly seems like the real answer

[Anonymous No.12576955]

These crackers think they can dis UBI cause they own a couple crypto bagd and some divident stocks. Please go out in the real world and observe reality you computer nerds. Get some fresh air in reality

[Anonymous No.12576956]

>>12576939
Could be sustainable. Just go into hyperinflation with a few more QE rounds.

We could be like the good old Weimarer republic

[Anonymous No.12576958]

>>12576940
>This srly seems like the real answer

Yeah, provided its implemented perfectly which is impossible because leftists are fucking retarded. So yeah, in a perfect world where everyone can come to a consensus on the proper things and it doesn't just further bloat the government even more. Its less shit than what we already have in place right now.

But as it stands right now. It will never happen correctly and it will be implemented all kinds of fucked up.

[Anonymous No.12576962]

>>12576773
Watch the vid before commenting. A lot of what is asked here is answered in this short vid.

[Anonymous No.12576964]

>>12576931
Dude wat?

Are you suggesting to dismantle all existing programs and hand out $1000/ month? It honestly won't impact me directly (directly being emphasized here); I'm a 35yr old self employed person who's customers have jobs.
You typed out a bunch of jive talk gibberish that doesn't translate to much. All I can glean from what you say is you like uni and don't like old people.

[Anonymous No.12576966]

>>12576956
Its like talking to a propaganda machine really. The weimar ?cmon m8. On and on like a broken record. Weimar and zimbabwe. Is it you alex jones?

[Anonymous No.12576968]

>>12576932
>Die in the streets like an animal while the technocracy flourishes.

Definitely zero problems will emerge from allowing this to happen, heh

[Anonymous No.12576974]

>>12576955
>These crackers think they can dis UBI cause they own a couple crypto bagd and some divident stocks.

The only fucking way you will see a UBI ever done half way properly will be with crypto. The government will never be able to implement such a system properly.

[Anonymous No.12576990]

Ok... this thread seemed to be an almost productive discourse on ubi, but i believe a few genuine negroes and a cryptocurrency enthusiast have entered the thread, so DERAIL FUCKING IMMINENT.
*parachutes away*

[Anonymous No.12576997]

>>12576968
Kek imagine being optimistic stock boomer with a ledger reading a financial times outside some french looking café. Suddenly from around the corner 10 people in dire need of an UBI see your shiny rolex on your wrist. One of them drops down a boombox and plays his latest beat on you

[Anonymous No.12576998]

>>12576968
>Definitely zero problems will emerge from allowing this to happen, heh

A couple nigger uprisings similar to occupy wallstreet. Maybe a civil war. Its a bumpy fucking road we are about to travel on. A UBI might be possible if we slash and burn the current regime.

We need to pop a few bubbles anon. The reset button is needed.

[Anonymous No.12576999]

>>12576966
I know. People don't wanna learn from history. I don't really care...i will give UBI a shot. Nevertheless is impossible to sustain UBI with a stable economy. And once again, IF (and that's a fucking fucking big IF) you can somehow magically finance UBI, you have to get rid of nation aka states. Otherwise UBI will ruin the few countries which are implementing it.

[Anonymous No.12577012]

>>12576999
Ubi looks scary but it becomes a partial part of everyonea pay. Nothing will change its a simplification couple to automation thats it. Most people are too simpleminded to understand it. Sothey attack it with history which is a fallacy.

[Anonymous No.12577014]

As soon as this shit comes out I literally stop working lmao. Fuck paying for niggers and spics

[Anonymous No.12577016]

>>12577014
Yoi already pay for them

[Anonymous No.12577022]

>>12577016
Barely. I make less than 20k and also collect EBT oh yeah and I work for the state of Massachusetts so essentially I'm a parasite too

[Anonymous No.12577025]

>>12577022
Swipe that fucker

[Anonymous No.12577038]

>>12576990
>Ok... this thread seemed to be an almost productive discourse on ubi, but i believe a few genuine negroes and a cryptocurrency enthusiast have entered the thread, so DERAIL FUCKING IMMINENT.
>*parachutes away*

The fuck were you even doing here in the first place? You expected the honest answer regarding the topic to be flowery speach about how good old Bernie Sanders will whisk us away into perfect socialist utopia land using the latest communism-light buzzword without a little blood on your fucking hands? One of the main things I hate about you reddit fuckers with your futuristic subreddits is you always talk about shit like "its just going to happen someday, any day now guys!"

Then you retards shit all over any actual change because you NPC morons cant handle even a little change. You post in a bubble talking about how great X will be but you act like your corporate overlords are just going to put it in a happy little box and leave it in front of your door one day. What the fuck do you think this is the 1990s still you absolutely fucking morons!! Like some day (((They))) will give us everything we need with zero hardships!

The reality is that automation means civil war. UBI requires reworked government. Fiat is not sustainable in its current state because its not backed by anything. And corporations are about to take it in the ass one massive red dildo at a time until something gives.

[Anonymous No.12577050]

>>12576247
I agree with UBI but ONLY if you get rid if all gibmedats from the gov. This is what Milton Friedman proposed so people have the freedom to choose what to do with that money. At the same time you get rid of all the burocratic bs of every gibmedat existing right now and reduce it to a basic one time payment for the whole population.

[Anonymous No.12577054]

>>12577012
How can nothing change if you replace something (let's call it welfare for simplication, which isn't accurate tho) with UBI which literally needs multiple times the money as before? Either money hasn't an value anymore or you have to get it otherwise?
Robot / AI Tax? Cute will never work
HFT Tax? Would be enough money, unfortunately the profit margin in HFT is so tiny, that any expense would make it obsolete. So clearly no.
Any other ideas? I am willing to listen. But don't throw around with BS. I know Gen Z and Mil don't wanna work anymore and UBI is an easy exit scam, but be realistic once.

[Anonymous No.12577056]

>>12577038
Did you even read my other posts itt. It would've saved you considerable embarrassment and a substantial amount of time in typing out this quality copypasta tier rant.

[Anonymous No.12577068]

>>12577050
And that's why UBI is an utopic idea, exactly as yours.

[Anonymous No.12577095]

>>12576908
>is Trotskyist fairy tale.

Yeah pretty much.

>>12576990
>and a cryptocurrency enthusiast have entered the thread, so DERAIL FUCKING IMMINENT.

I responded mostly to that. If you haven't noticed the cryptocurrency thing i the only shot in hell at getting something like this to work.

[Anonymous No.12577115]

>>12577054
>Cute will never work

Works

[Anonymous No.12577120]

>>12576247
>most people don't refuse free money
What the fuck

[Anonymous No.12577127]

>>12577095
>I responded mostly to that. If you haven't noticed the cryptocurrency thing i the only shot in hell at getting something like this to work.

Alright, I'll come back in here, because I believe we're mostly on the same page. I'm not shitting on crypto generally (though I am a skeptic). I'm merely stating that within the context of whatever actual productive dialog can be had regarding ubi, injecting crypto is, in essence, a non sequitur. You'd be stacking one untested, and controversial system, on top of another untested and controversial system, basically just to do it; meanwhile, we haven't even truly examined what works (and more likely doesn't) with ubi as a concept.
Now is not the time for crypto... that comes later.

[Anonymous No.12577129]

>>12577115
Zero arguments provided by you in this whole thread. Seems like UBI is srly a meme for subhumans.

[Anonymous No.12577138]

>>12577120
the swiss did lol
they are unironically smart
https://www.thelocal.ch/20160606/a-guaranteed-income-why-the-swiss-said-no

[Anonymous No.12577147]

>>12577129
If anything is a meme its crypto, Stocks And taxpayer money

[Anonymous No.12577155]

>>12577147
Taxpayer money being the biggest meme

[Anonymous No.12577158]

>>12577155
>>12577147
>lmao why doesn't the government just build my road for free
Unless you live in the woods and use no infrastructure, shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.12577165]

>>12577158
Ah clearly didnt understand my post. Sad. Yes good citizen. All your money went to roads ;)

[Anonymous No.12577166]

>>12577158
I believe he is an actual worldstar-american. I wouldn't spend much time going back and forth with him, if I were you.

[Anonymous No.12577167]

>>12577127
>Now is not the time for crypto... that comes later.

Actually I am fucking up on this point too much now.
The one problem that needs to be solved may not even be solvable. In order for crypto to allow for a UBI you have to have a system in place that makes it impossible for one person to have multiple account.

Solve that and crypto can create a functional UBI very easily... Good luck solving that though.

[Anonymous No.12577173]

>>12576611
It would though. Look up reserve army of labour. Basically, NEETs & niggers on gibs are critical to the economy, (((They))) need to have a pool of horrifying poverty to threaten to toss the wagies into. Fear is the greatest motivation after all. Kinda like prisons - having big bull-nigger rape pits is there to threaten wagies that get too uppity.

[Anonymous No.12577174]

>>12577166
True dat brotha.

[Anonymous No.12577186]

>>12577173
This is true. Wagies really need to be happy with their job. Or they gey replaced.

[Anonymous No.12577224]

>>12576998
>We need to pop a few bubbles anon. The reset button is needed.

Agreed

[Anonymous No.12577248]

>>12577147
Crypto is the biggest meme of them all. Stocks at least represents some kind of value. Taxpayers money is wasted, no doubt about that. But what has any of the topics to do with the meme UBI? You cannot compare memes with meme and decide which is worse or better. Flawed and utopic ideas like UBI are idiotic.

[Anonymous No.12577459]

>>12576372
It also works that way

[Anonymous No.12577498]

What if companies stopped using tax minimization and just, I dunno, paid what they're meant to.

[Anonymous No.12577505]

UBI as a way to tax automation by providing to the people it displaces on the assumption that there's nowhere else for them to go in the job market is the 'soft landing' version of a transition where machines replace people wholesale.

It requires the following in order to cover basic needs:
- Automation providing greater than the value of the labor it is replacing.
- No minimum wage.
- Population caps.
- Bars to capital and labor flight.

[Anonymous No.12577516]

>>12577505
>Automation providing greater than the value of the labor it is replacing.
>- No minimum wage.
>- Population caps.
>- Bars to capital and labor flight.
Well that escalated quickly.

[Anonymous No.12577538]

>>12577505
>Population caps.
This is the kicker.
Good fuckin' luck to whichever government tries to implement that.

[Anonymous No.12577551]

>>12576642
>78%of full time workers live paycheck to paycheck.
Because of their spending habits
>50% of renters spend over 30% of their income on rent.
How will UBI change that?
>Of those, half (25%) spend over 50% of their income on rent.
Do you expect the UBI to be 60k annually? How will this change?
>Nationwide, 62 percent of jobs pay either hardship wages (aka can't survive on your own)
62% of the nation makes $30000. If they're renting a house, buying luxury bread and drinking beer and smoking weed everyday, they're not living "unlivable wages".
I'm in for removing welfare, but I doubt if UBI will fix shit

[Anonymous No.12577571]

>>12576743
>"people will want to improve themselves, blah blah"
That would be a perfect world scenario, but really, everyone will just be spoiled and ask more. Also politicians will keep saying "I will raise the UBI" to get votes.

[Anonymous No.12577576]

Can't wait for NEETs to kill /pol/ Melvins and soi fags to get actual NEETbucks.

[Anonymous No.12577581]

>>12576566
You tax them anyway if they want to do business in your country. The Federal government is the most powerful organization in human history. If they wanted to get around tax loopholes with Jews using the Cayman Islands, they could tell them to go fuck themselves and force them to pay anyway though various methods.

[Anonymous No.12577612]

>>12577538
china already did this a while ago.
>each family only allowed one baby

[Anonymous No.12577614]

>>12577551
They won't have to live in expensive metro areas if they don't need to work in the city. Chicago suburbs here, you can rent a nice house for like 300 p/mo just two hours away from the city. I have friends who graduated college with degrees in finance, math, etc that are working for less than 40k annually, living in a shoebox with roommates that they each pay 1200 a month for. Why? Because it's where the jobs for their industry are.

[Anonymous No.12577632]

>>12577516
I hate communists for killing in pursuit of a retarded ideology, but if you think the current allocation of capital is going to result in anything other technofeudalism or mixed market socialism supported by automated slave labor, then you're delusional. Decentralization has unfortunately not saved us.

[Anonymous No.12577720]

>>12576765
>Poor people do not waste all their money on alcohol and tobacco.
Yeah. They probably spent it on drugs.

>The lazy and drunk poor person is a stereotype, not reality.
Stopped watching right there.

ANYTHING with a biritish voice over ends up ducked beyond ass.

[Anonymous No.12577827]

>>12576997
Maybe we can Ubi everyone a woodchiper to jump into in that scenario

[Anonymous No.12577874]

I understand the idea of UBI is to supplement or even replace the income of the people who have been replaced by automation.
But, what responsibility (other than a moral one) do companies which own these machines? There is really none. These companies might even flee the country to avoid paying taxes so we will have another round of manufacturing being outsourced and leaving America for cheap short term gains.
Companies have no responsibility to take care of the poor. No one does. It's on them, personal responsibility

[Anonymous No.12577877]

Anons, this is very simple.
Current system:
>you are taxed
>niggers get gibs
>you get nothing
UBI:
>you are taxed
>niggers get gibs
>you also get gibs
If the process is simplified to the point you can fire 99% of current admin staff for the patchwork of 900,000 welfare programs, simplifying it down to one UBI that needs very little paperwork other than a citizenship test would eliminate most overhead, saving money over the current system, AND ensuring taxpaying whites also benefit from this.
There's zero logical reason to not support UBI. You are already paying for Shaquanda's gibs either way. You can think of the difference as being, instead of receiving gibs yourself, your money is going to pay some government worker to get obese on mcdonalds during xer lunchbreaks.

[Anonymous No.12577895]

>>12576346
>if the average iq is 100 then half the people are under it
that's not how it words you moron

[Anonymous No.12577918]

You know they will tax more, right?
And if you think a socialist state will keep the Gibs equal in this environment, you're a fool. They will pick groups to get more UBI than others as all the rent seekers pile on, and taxes will go up more.

[Anonymous No.12578015]

>>12576932
You're retarded if you think anyone will fight for boomers.

[Anonymous No.12578020]

>>12577516
Someone is taking the reins one way or the other.

[Anonymous No.12578039]

>>12577895
The median and average of datasets converge for normalized datasets of exhaustive population size you fucking mongoloid

[Anonymous No.12578078]

>>12577874
Who the fuck is going to buy their shit?

God damn, this board is full of idiots who took basic civics in high school and repeats what their dad told them at the dinner table. The first time I heard about UBI was at an economics lecture at the University of Chicago. My professor, who had made the focus of our first class on why minimum wage doesn't work, was the guy pitching it.

BECAUSE HE KNOWS TYRONE AND CLETUS ARE GOING TO FUCK HIM IN THE ASS OTHERWISE

[Anonymous No.12578150]

>>12576247
just because it's supported by most americans doesn't mean it will happen. most americans didnt want us to go into iraq and want legal weed but those didn't happen.
>>12576320
a human right is a freedom that all humans are entitled to. a human right can't involve stealing from someone else.
>>12576327
found the r*dditor
>>12576335
>>12576345
this
>>12576359
found the welfare baby

[Anonymous No.12578557]

>>12577874
Most jobs here are service jobs, how are you going to outsource the local corner starbucks?

[Anonymous No.12578577]

>>12578557
I would start a pod-based coffee company which has all the up-pricing margin a service industry can apply to its commodity distinction chain but without the recurring labour costs or hefty franchise and real estate dependant- wait a minute...

[Anonymous No.12578704]

>>12578577
Yet Starbucks is still around. You can't move your McDonald's franchise, repair shop, trucking company, local bank, etc to the islands. Even if you did, there are legal recourses that the government just refuses to use.

But you're right we're not going to see it in five years. We're going to see it in fifteen after the first couple of boomers get killed.

[Anonymous No.12578735]

>>12578020
>Someone is taking the reins one way or the other.
At this point I'm starting to lean towards Anarchism because I really don't want a Corporatocracy, but I don't want some fucking Orwellian nightmare.
I'd be one of the first to die if we 'reset', but maybe that's okay because I enjoyed the good parts of the now and would never need to suffer the fires of potential chaos.

[Anonymous No.12578798]

>>12577551
pic related, plus "spending habits"? Post proof.
26,070 and below is hardship wages.
26,071-44,066 livable wages

In total, 62% of jobs pay these ranges.

>Do you expect the UBI to be 60k annually? How will this change?
Here >>12576773
1k a month so 12,000 a yr

[Anonymous No.12578807]

>>12577551
Also 1k a month would basically make it so less people struggle to pay rent. Less financial strain. That's one of the points to ubi in the first place.

[Anonymous No.12578814]

>>12577571
Not true. Watch the vid. Studies have already been done that showed the opposite of what you say.

[Anonymous No.12578844]

>>12578807
If everyone gets an extra 1k a month without that productivity being reflected in actual output the cost of fixed consumables like food and rent will trace upwards roughly the same ammount, with a brief overshoot period where the cost of living is actually inflated above where it was before.

[Anonymous No.12578943]

the current system fails
nwo takes over
adopts chinas talks of social economy
consumer economy is over
nations want upstanding people.
or reflection of own values
crypto gets adopted
nations now establish custodianship of your blockchain.
crypto will be specialized to certain things
think gift certificates to certain specialized markets.
more accountability in spending.
states inject ubi into citizens
citizens use ubi to spend in crypto markets.
activities will be based off of getting a certain amount of crypto.
crowdfunding will be the first.

[Anonymous No.12578946]

>>12578844
3:54 - 4:12
According to the vid, there would be no inflation because "it's a shift of funds rather than the creation of new ones".

[Anonymous No.12578984]

>>12576247
What a shock, after importing hoards of third worlders we now have a larger percentage of residents demanding gibs.

[Anonymous No.12578988]

>>12576588
>spending power or whatever you call it
This guy clearly gets it.

[Anonymous No.12579030]

>>12578078
>BECAUSE HE KNOWS TYRONE AND CLETUS ARE GOING TO FUCK HIM IN THE ASS OTHERWISE
Why not just kill'em all? No room for peasants on my Elysium.

[Anonymous No.12579033]

>>12578984
How about cracking down on embezzlement and welfare fraud and tackling our growing national debt first? While we're at it we need to fix the ponzi scheme known as social security. I will happily take the L as long as the next generation starts funding their OWN retirement accounts like they do in Australia.

[Anonymous No.12579120]

>>12578946
If you're taking value away from anywhere in society and reallocation it so the bottom rungs can simply meet rend demand's then you're obviously destroying value.

That money would have otherwise gone somewhere other than an expanding rent bubble.

Doesn't matter how deserving the people who get the money are or how dire straights theyre in, simple fact is you're diverting cash flow away from a input with productive output and diverting it towards supporting a consumption bubble.

[Anonymous No.12579158]

>>12579120
>diverting cash flow away from a input with productive output
The "productive output" being? In the vid, an example was made to take away other social benefits like welfare and medicare.

4:40 of the vid

[Anonymous No.12579215]

>>12579120
Also, I don't understand why you think things would get worse.

5:40 explains a study was made that showed a ubi of 1k a month could grow the gdp by 12% over 8 yrs because poor people spending more = increase overall demand

[Anonymous No.12579230]

>>12576247
UBI works when there is no other welfare alongside it. What this really translates to is 'more money for minorities'

[Anonymous No.12579260]

>>12577551
>hurf durf, theres nothing wrong with society, it’s all just personal choices!!!!!
Kys

[Anonymous No.12579287]

>>12579230
>no other welfare
mm then how to get voters?
there goes the plan

[Anonymous No.12579298]

>>12579230
https://youtu.be/9pr__WzY9Io
This is all you need to know.

[Anonymous No.12579328]

>universal basic income
>universal
>only for burgers
???

>baseball world series
>only burgers participate
?????

hmmm

[Anonymous No.12579344]

>>12576247
I want a socialist economy so bad so I can just play vidya games and get paid by the government! Let's vote in democratic socialist in 2020 so I never have to work again, make all these rich asshole republicans pay for it!

[Anonymous No.12579371]

>>12576566
>The companies who automate their processes are doing so in order to increase profits.
>And where is the money for that coming from?
Tax automation at the same rate as normal workers, then jack up minimum wage. Companies will start trying to automate so they don't need to pay a wage and paying just the tax rather then the tax AND the wage. Then take all the automation tax ad divide it up by the LEGAL population and give it to them as UBI.

Tech gets researched to avoid paying a rising minimum wage, NEETs get paid, wageslaves get paid, illegal immigrants get nothing and are thus priced out of the country.

[Anonymous No.12579375]

>>12579344
JUST the world

[Anonymous No.12579455]

We all laughed at these redneck preppers but it's becoming clearer that they're the sane one. Huge demographic shifts of a mass influx of people who want socialism and who don't share the same views of individual liberty are going to sink our country big time and drag us down to poverty. High taxes, regulation and inflation are in the pipeline and everyone should should start to partition some of their money into precious metals, guns and preservable food.

[Anonymous No.12579458]

UBI is a taxpayer divident for sharing the wealth created on infrastructure that the taxpayers themselves created.

The worst thing about this fake-ass crony capitalism is how the corporatists made a killing on infrastructure that we all paid for, and then these motherfuckers don't pay a dime of taxes because "muh charity foundations".

And then you get the corporate bootlicker faggots trying to whitewash the jeff bezoses and bill gates of the world

[Anonymous No.12579506]

>>12579215
Remove the incentive to produce and you remove the productivity.

[Anonymous No.12579542]

>>12579506
>Remove the incentive to produce
You didn't watch the video, did you?

[Anonymous No.12579569]

>>12579506
1:54 backed up by a test run done on canada that people wouldn't just leave work

[Anonymous No.12579617]

>>12579458
word

capitalist bootlickers supporting the wealthy that don't GIVE A SINGLE SHIT ABOUT THEM

what kind of stockholm syndrome can you have seriously

[Anonymous No.12579634]

>>12579617
This. You libertarian corporate worshipping faggots are just as bad as any libtard.

[Anonymous No.12579641]

>>12579617
Dude, seriously. Those people make no sense. It's like some people ACTUALLY LIKE getting cucked.

[Anonymous No.12579759]

>>12579569
I live in Ontario.

The program you're talking about was shutdown and deemed a failure after a majority of participants either dropped out of were retroaxtively deemed ineligible after failing to meet basic requisite milestones such as filing your taxes for each consecutive year you're enrolled in the program.

Good try though.

[Anonymous No.12579790]

>>12579328
Burgers ARE the world

>>12576247
If my extremely simple math is right,
~300 million US adult citizens * $12,000 a year UBI = ~3.6 Trillion fucking dollars A YEAR

I like the idea much better of a 'negative income tax' for the first $12,000 than a ubi, like Milton Friedman put forth

[Anonymous No.12579795]

>12 - 48% in ten years

Is this some clever data manipulation, or did a huge portion of the population suddenly become retarded within a single generation?

[Anonymous No.12579822]

>>12576359
>Makes fun of wageslaves
>Thinks UBI will bring freedom

Kid UBI will be the most effective enslavement mechanism to ever exist. Get your god damn head out of your ass.

[Anonymous No.12579875]

>>12576875
*Group of Christians against legalizing drugs shows up*

[Anonymous No.12579900]

>>12579759
No. The one I referred to was done in the 1970s. Nice try though.

Also, back up your claims. According to my source, no data of ANY kind was provided as to why it wasn't "sustainable".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/ontarios-new-conservative-government-to-end-basic-income-experiment

Lastly, they are not all done the same way. There's nothing to suggest there won't be more trials in the future.

[Anonymous No.12579919]

>>12579822
>most effective enslavement mechanism to ever exist.
>like most people aren't already enslaved despite 78% of full time workers living paycheck to paycheck, 50% of renters spending over 30% of their income on rent, and half of those spending over 50% of their income on rent
Wake the fuck up

[Anonymous No.12579932]

>>12576289
Imagine being so naivety think the (((rich elite))) would happily pay for the living of goyim that no longer has any purpose for them anymore.

We’ll all get wiped out with man made viruses when we are no longer needed

[Anonymous No.12579991]

>>12579919
Are you fucking retarded? All that would mean is 78% of people are fucked forever. There is no way they will role it out with a cash in hand system.

Who do you think is going to be issuing the Universal Good Boy Points? The exact same corrupt people that made this system, except now they have a very, very large leverage over how you conduct yourself and whether or not you submit.

>Oh we see last month you bought a pack of cigarettes with your good boy points. $10 deduction.
>Here we can see you spending your good boy points late at night in a bar. That is not very socially responsible of you citizen. $15 reduction.
>This isn't fair!
>You could always get a job if you don't like the good boy system.
>*Tries to get job*
>Everything is automated
>Umm I would like to be back on the good boy system please. I won't post socially irresponsible things on facebook again.

Very woke.

[Anonymous No.12580027]

>Unironically from the future

I’ll let you all know something. GBI, gauntanteed basic income, will become a thing. How fucking ever.
Y’all gonna have to wait until the autolab facs are up and turning out premium products to expect GBI to “pay” you like you’re a millionaire.

GBI will start small and expand as moderate ANI becomes strong ANI and eventually develops into AGI. Strong ANI will put a plurality if the white collar professionals out of work. Once AGI happens, the rest of them will follow save for law, medicine (especially medicine), and service industry (physical manipulation / classes like yoga/ food servers like old times sit downs/ and elderly care/). Then, once AGI is running ten to fifteen years out the manipulation and dynamics problem will be solved and GBI is gonna “pay” you cave posters like you’re Will Gates. Though, let’s be honest, before the advent of AGI, you’re all gonna suffer a dark period of rolling unemployment as the dummy narrow Ai puts the middle class out of work.

Survive long enough and the future is fun. ETP posting signing off ;)

[Anonymous No.12580072]

How it is now:
>Oh no, economy slowing. Print money and give it to rich people.
>Rich people create bubbles in stocks and bonds. No significant “inflation”.

How it will be with UBI:
>Print money and give it to poor people.
>Poor people buy more shit measured by “inflation”. Inflation increases.
>Since everyone gets the $1,000, even people with good paying jobs buy more. Inflation increases.
>Some portion of people who hate working stop. Wages go up because fewer workers. Inflation increases.
>At this point everyone expects lots of inflation. This is really what makes inflation go totally fuckin bonkers.

Ok, seems bad, but this is where things can really go off the rails:
>The UBI is no longer enough. Even more of the population than before UBI is 100% dependent on the government for support.
>They vote to increase the UBI. Venezuala time.

I won't vote for this, but I think it is inevitable at this point. We have trained too much of our society that the government owes them everything they need in life.

[Anonymous No.12580075]

>>12579991
You don't make a lick of sense. You're not very coherent.
>All that would mean is 78% of people are fucked forever.
Aaaand so the u.s. should keep being this flawed? Are you stupid? That's obviously a mark of a failure as a society.
>Here we can see you spending your good boy points late at night in a bar. >That is not very socially responsible of you citizen. $15 reduction.
Wtf are you talking about? Trials done give you the money and let you spend it however you wish so idk wtf you're even trying to say here.

>You could always get a job if you don't like the good boy system.
>*Tries to get job*
>Everything is automated
>Umm I would like to be back on the good boy system please. I won't post socially irresponsible things on facebook again.
^this makes no sense. What point are you even trying to make here? You're saying "person can't get a job because of automation so they want ubi again" so.... what's your point here???
Are you high because I can't follow your logic.

[Anonymous No.12580105]

>>12580075
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkw15LkZ_Kw

[Anonymous No.12580111]

>>12580072
Ubi wouldn't create inflation. Watch some videos online and read some articles. More money wouldn't be printed either. Instead, money would be allocated differently i.e. less medicare and welfare

[Anonymous No.12580130]

>>12580075
>Aaaand so the u.s. should keep being this flawed? Are you stupid? That's obviously a mark of a failure as a society.

UBI isn't the solution

>Wtf are you talking about? Trials done give you the money and let you spend it however you wish so idk wtf you're even trying to say here.

If you think the system they role out will be cash you are just kidding yourself.

>^this makes no sense. What point are you even trying to make here? You're saying "person can't get a job because of automation so they want ubi again" so.... what's your point here?? Are you high because I can't follow your logic.

No you are just a sub 120 IQ sub human. Communication starts to break down after a 30 IQ point difference.

[Anonymous No.12580200]

>>12580130
>No you are just a sub 120 IQ sub human. Communication starts to break down after a 30 IQ point difference.
No, you straight up just made absolutely 0 sense there like a retard.

[Anonymous No.12580211]

>>12580130
>UBI isn't the solution
According to?
More trials are being conducted. Your dogma doesn't mean shit to me.

>If you think the system they role out will be cash you are just kidding yourself.
That's literally how the trials have been. Fucking kek.

[Anonymous No.12580258]

>>12576247
Yeah the government should take care of that, it's not like it's insanely indebted already...

[Anonymous No.12580423]

>>12576773
Wouldn't work simply because of creep. Over time people will demand more money or more welfare programs. The vast majority of younger people are in favor of expanded government spending. The whole system is already in danger of collapse, this will just accelerate it.

[Anonymous No.12580484]

>>12576931
>Most of that is going to the military to bomb brown people for fossil fuels and currencies
That's patently false though.

You sound like you stink of patchouli and small roast house coffee.

[Anonymous No.12581362]

>>12576838
you made a more compelling argument for getting rid of minimum wage all together than you did for UBI.

[Anonymous No.12581408]

>>12579900
>although reality proves that I am wrong, this youtube video CLEARLY backs up my theory

[Anonymous No.12581442]

>>12581408
"Reality proves" source or are you going to cherry pick? You know california is going to try this out soon to 500 people I believe?
That video wasn't pulling shit out of it's ass either.

[Anonymous No.12581477]

>>12580200
>It doesn't make sense to me so you must be retarded

Do you often walk into a physics class with this same approach?

>>12580211
>He doesn't understand what the world trial means

I am well aware my "dogma" doesn't mean shit to you. non-linear wave functions probably also doesn't mean shit to you but I highly doubt you mean anything to anyone. A mind as devoid of anything original as yours would be much better served decorating the bathroom ceiling than spouting youtube "educated" bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12581484]

>>12576931
You realize the US dollar is only worth because of the US military right? You take money out of the military to fund UBI and you'll end up giving everyone worthless green papers that aren't worth the ink used to make them..

[Anonymous No.12581521]

>>12581442
the literal post you were replying to you fucking retard. Stop shitting up this board with buzzfeed type shilling. It's fucking embarrassing

[Anonymous No.12581547]

>>12581521
Ya and I fucking countered every one of their points you literal fucking retard. Don't reproduce, ass clown.

[Anonymous No.12581558]

>>12581477
>Do you often walk into a physics class with this same approach?
They weren't coherent and I literally explained how, jackass.

>I am well aware my "dogma" doesn't mean shit to you. non-linear wave functions probably also doesn't mean shit to you but I highly doubt you mean anything to anyone. A mind as devoid of anything original as yours would be much better served decorating the bathroom ceiling than spouting youtube "educated" bullshit.
This post basically = "you hurt muy feelings so you're stupid. Waaah" shut the fuck up, whiny bitch.

[Anonymous No.12581562]

>>12576566
Automation tax

[Anonymous No.12581571]

>>12576698
>everybody stops working
it's automation that will make UBI necessary...

[Anonymous No.12581588]

>>12576247
In the USA? Never. Not even worth proposing.

[Anonymous No.12581598]

>>12581562
You'll better make a "moving all my money to crypto and fucking off to singapore" tax, because that's where the money will be.

Lets be real, the government doesn't produce shit, the only way it can give anything to the population is by stealing it from the actual productive people, and this people will eventually fuck off to a place where they aren't mugged so badly by the government, that's globalization for you.

[Anonymous No.12581601]

You commies are so Fucking retarded lmao.
You will never win, never.

[Anonymous No.12581618]

>>12576247
Theres not even a guarantee I will be able to receive social security at retirement... and this is what they want to do?

[Anonymous No.12581623]

>>12576384
How long till mainnet?

[Anonymous No.12581635]

>>12576247
When you stop being a lazy nigger fuck and get a job

[Anonymous No.12582198]

>>12579030
White 5' 9" dentists and professors are not going to kill anyone, retards. The army is full of Tyrones and Cletuses. In fact, it's entirely made up of them + Pablo. I don't know what pathetic lives you guys lead to think there's going to be a violent uprising led by faggots on a podcast vaping. The most effective right wing violence for the past half century has been Islam, and we've seen an actual flow of the most radical on either side towards them. Case in point is atom waffen. The only dude who did anything was a convert despite those retards larping about how many groid scalps they'd collect.

[Anonymous No.12582650]

Former Tea Party guy, we were lied to about a lot of things. I fully back the Democratic Socialist platform.

[Anonymous No.12583032]

>>12576247
Adrew Yang 2020.
Dude wants true UBI thats done properly.
UBI is a right of the people when businesses have gutted jobs and wages and have gutted the family unit.
UBI will lower divorce, lower broken homes, lower suicides, lower drug abuse and violent crime.
That is why the rich dont like it, because we stop fighting and start exploring and inventing to rise to the true peak of mankind.

[Anonymous No.12583049]

>>12576247
If we lived in an all-white country, it may work. As it is now, it definitely would not.

[Anonymous No.12583092]

>>12581601

They already won, US gov commie as fuck

[Anonymous No.12583157]

>>12578015
>You're retarded if you think anyone will fight for boomers.

I dont. My main point is that UBI is never going to happen. It would be better than what we have now but it has to be implemented perfectly.

>>12579822
>Kid UBI will be the most effective enslavement mechanism to ever exist. Get your god damn head out of your ass.

UBI + social credits. Better watch what you say on Twitter goy.

>>12581562
>Automation tax

This is impossible to tax properly. There is no way to tax automation. It just means higher taxes for the corporations and the rich. People need to stop with this "we can tax automation" bullshit. You might as well tax a company more for using computers.

Go ahead and try to define exactly what constitutes automation. Do it in a way that cant be easily worked around by the people who design the systems.

>>12581362
>you made a more compelling argument for getting rid of minimum wage all together than you did for UBI.

Well I said UBI would mean we need to get rid of min wage. Lowering wages more with rising cost of living means you pay for the difference when you are car is randomly lit on fire during another riot.

[Anonymous No.12583175]

>>12583157
>you are car

* Your car

[Anonymous No.12583198]

>>12583092
I wouldn't call infesting a dying husk "winning"

[Anonymous No.12583223]

>>12576247
>Universal basic income when?
Never! Lazy neets should stay fucking poor for being lazy neets. If you want more get off your ass and go fucking earn it like everyone else!

[Anonymous No.12583268]

>>12583049
Yep. Cultural homogenity works wonders - look at the lovely quality of life in north european countries. The things they took from us...