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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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12511471 No.12511471 [Reply] [Original]

ITT: Business Ethics

>> No.12511504
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12511504

>>12511471
>Good employees
>Want more out of them
>What should I do
You should be fucking thankful that you have employees that give a shit at all. Take a look around, this is a job hunters dream market at the moment. Be happy they don't ghost your sorry ass for something better.

>> No.12511517

>>12511471
The ethical thing to do is break that guys kneecaps. Fuck him. He agreed to pay them a rate and to provide a set of perks - they're entitled to take holidays. It's a contractual agreement, he doesn't magically have supervening rights because he's the "boss".

>> No.12511518

There was an ethics test in every single business class I took at my uni. Not sure who thinks that's going to make an innately unethical person ethical. If anything it just teaches everyone where the Grey area is

>> No.12511756

>>12511471
Retard.

If you don't want them to take the vacations like that, either

1) Write it into their employment contract or
2) Tell them that it's an informal expectation, and that if vacationing like that without a compelling reason, will interfere with their future at the company.

>> No.12511785

>>12511471
>3 weeks
6 weeks paid here and it's illegal to give me less than 5. Wagie life is pretty good desu.

>> No.12511808
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12511808

I love it that resources will endlessly cry about managers demanding more from them, not realizing that the "extra" effort is the driving factor between businesses that succeed and those that don't.

Oh, and the few of them that can actually rise above the other resources and become management INSTANTLY realize this, and demand more out of their direct reports.

You only see this when you look at it from the other side. It's easy for resources to look at managers and just see an overly-demanding parent. It's not until you're in that position yourself that you see it's what is actually best for the company.

PS: This is why you get replaced by Pajeets. They're willing to put in more hours than you.

>> No.12511829

>>12511808
you dont seem to understand that the extra effort should be your baseline. if you have to ask for it then you are by definition getting something that is temporary

>> No.12512042
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12512042

>>12511829
I don't decide what the baseline is, anon. I don't hire resources, I just get the most out of them.

But to your point, 40 hours is the bare minimum that society seems to have decided on. A good manager gets the work done no matter what - so if he can figure out how to get 45 or 50 man-hours out of somebody whose baseline is 40, then that is proper management.

The IDEAL manager can do this while keeping his resources happy. Ie, a manager that people "want" to work for. This is the gold standard of resource management.

>> No.12512097

>>12511785
>This creates the yellow vest.

>> No.12512140

>>12512097
Nah, negotiations and no strikes enforced by law while under contracts work pretty well.

>> No.12512166

>>12512042
You don't understand how this works.

When hiring someone, you are exchanging money for their labor. Trying to get extra work, without extra pay, is unethical. And if you manage to do it, a lot of employees will quit, to work at someplace that doesn't mistreat them.

An employer asking for unpaid extra work, is like an employee asking for extra pay.

>40 hours is the bare minimum that society seems to have decided on
Lots of people work less than 40 hours.

>The IDEAL manager can do this while keeping his resources happy.
That's like saying that the IDEAL child is someone who will take 90% of her husbands money, while keeping him happy. I suppose it's ideal, if you come from a selfish, female perspective.

But if you see the employer-employee relationship as cooperative, then you're full of shit.

>> No.12512177

>>12512166
not child, wife. Mixed up my metaphor.

>> No.12512187

>>12511471
>CEO
Makes business decisions based of responses on Quora

>> No.12512195

>>12511756
check out this jewish faggot

>> No.12512207

>>12512140
Why do Europeans love crippling and unsustainable regulations on businesses? I've stopped selling to eu (i do e commerce shit) because of their privacy policies and nonsense return policies, and I know 1000's of other business owners that've done the same across ebay, amazon, and etsy, as well as independent shopify operators.

>> No.12512232

>>12512177
Bet that gets real confusing for ya, skippy

>> No.12512237

>>12512207
I get paid and a nice vacation, and my field is booming. We don't need your bleached eggs, room-temperature milk or fake chocolate.

>> No.12512245
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12512245

>>12512166
>When hiring someone
I see you didn't even read the first sentence I wrote. I don't hire anybody. I just manage company resources. I break up the minutiae of exceedingly complex projects into simple, digestible tasks. Then I feed those tasks to workers, and do *everything* in my power to help them do their job successfully.

It's not my job to care about what resources do in their private time, I just want to make them successful at work. If you want to yell at somebody about work-life balance, or contract requirements, or job expectations, I suggest you yell at somebody in HR, anon.

>> No.12512275

>>12512237
You never wish you had more economic freedom and fewer regulatory barriers? There was a eurofag anon on here saying the self employment tax over there is both a percentage of revenue and flat amount, that's due whether you're profitable that year or not.

>> No.12512337

>>12512245
>I don't hire anybody.
The company you work for hired them. With specific terms. If the employment contract said "we'll pay you $23/hour", and you refused to pay them $23/hour, that would be YOUR fault.

>I suggest you yell at somebody in HR, anon.
Why would I want to yell at anyone?

You're trying to pressure people into doing more work, than they agreed to. You're being exploitative, and I doubt it works as a corporate strategy. Either people will ignore you, or you'll have huge problems with employee retention.

>I break up the minutiae of exceedingly complex projects into simple, digestible tasks.
I doubt it. I kinda doubt you're even a "manager". What, are you assigning tasks to Indians on MTurk?

>> No.12512353

>>12512275
If I want to start a company I get paid no strings attached for half a year. I'm fine with relatively high taxes and regulation because literally anybody make it.

I guess it'd be cool to be able to do drugs freely and buy huge fireworks but can't have it all.

>> No.12512404

>>12511471
i saw recently that some cultures expect this like japan. If time rolls over or they are willing to buy it back then thats one thing. but to lure in employee's with benefits and then expect/threaten them not to use them is moronic.

>> No.12512462

>>12512353
It does sound pretty chill, but I'd still prefer taking on more risk myself to start something and keeping more (money and autonomy) on the back side if I make it (which I am doing presently).

To each their own I guess.

>> No.12512474

>>12511504
I would fire them once I found someone committed. Work should be the focus of your work, not playtime

>> No.12512596

>>12511808
>>12512042
>>12512245

This is why I never accept salary without compensated overtime. Whats that? I need to stay late today to meet *our* pushed up deadline? Fuck you, pay me.

>> No.12512636

>>12512474
But they aren't working when they're on vacation.
If you don't want people taking vacation give them less vacation time.

>> No.12512660

>>12512636
I would use it as a screening test to find out who was organically committed. Just because I offer you three cheeseburgers doesn’t mean you shouldn’t stop at one, or just have a salad

>> No.12512700

>>12512660
That's bullshit.
"Just because I offered you $50k for a job, doesn't mean you're supposed to take all $50k a year"
If you offered it to make the job look good that's on you, retard. Cash on the barrel.

>> No.12512766

>>12512660
Are you serious?

Vacation is a good way to prevent burnout. As well, life is not all about work. You should think of your workers as human beings.

I'm glad I moved to Europe where taking vacation is not only mandatory (4 weeks by law in most places, and companies usually offer 5) but actively encouraged.

>> No.12512767
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12512767

>>12512404
This exactly. If you couldn't provide it to them and you offered it, that's on you. It's also technically illegal.

>> No.12512774

>>12512042
>implying more hours = more quality output.
The churn rate at places like Amazon is not a badge of honour it's a black hole of lost productivity and wasted effort

>> No.12512809

>>12512700
>>12512766
See? The screen is already working.

Door’s to your left.

>> No.12512834

>>12512809
Good employees know their worth and won't get scammed. Enjoy the desperate bottom of the barrel.

>> No.12512844

>>12512809
>2 years later
Why is our retention rate only 50%?
lol retard.

>> No.12512875

>>12512834
>>12512844
This type of poor “me first” attitude is exactly why businesses should structure around virtual assistants and Amazon’s excellent mTurk program from day one

>> No.12512893
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12512893

>>12512875
Nice boomer meme

>> No.12512907

>>12512875
Are you perhaps autistic? No one in their right mind would ever put a company before their own health, unless it's their company.

>> No.12512919
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12512919

>>12511471
FUCK OFF WITH THIS SHITTY BAIT

>> No.12512933

>>12512893
Right?
Unless he's literally getting people to just stamp papers, anyone with the least bit of skill will be out the door in a minute, and I bet he doesn't even know how to calculate that kind of loss.

>> No.12512941

>>12512875

>he thinks wageslaves are invested emotionally and financially in a company as equity owners are

Only the most bluepilled of cucks wouldn't bail to a better place the second the opportunity arose. With so many places offering holidays and perks etc, you would be better suited to managing a pack of Ranjeeshes in a Calcutta call centre mate

>> No.12512952

>>12512893
>>12512907

Just messing around guys, buy Chainlink

>> No.12512962

>>12512952
Based.

>> No.12512969

>>12512941
You’re obviously not management material if you spend all your profits on candy for emps

>> No.12513102

>>12512462
That's totally understandable mate. I'm personally really on the border on this one - at times it feels like having extra security and more perks but less financial freedom as playing it safe in life, but sometimes it can weigh a lot on your soul to see how much you're paying to the state that sometimes does not deliver. Depends on where you're raised and what your ideals are I guess

>> No.12513385
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12513385

>>12512919

>> No.12513463

>>12512207
I'm guessing they have liberal return policies but what's the deal with privacy? Too much? Too little?

>> No.12513527

>>12513463
Too much for the buyer. The list protocols for how their data must be handled and used is absurdly restrictive for small time operators (meanwhile facebook, the company why these regs exist, can still do in essence whatever the fuck they want).

Too little for me. I have to list home address, full name, phone #, and since I'm a sole proprietor, ss#.

All of this to stop Google and Facebook from stealing your data; meanwhile, they are exempted from complying with most of the above.