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12490449 No.12490449 [Reply] [Original]

Why did the PUA industry collapse in recent years?

>> No.12490458

>>12490449
it didn't work?

>> No.12490462

Incels discovered the blackpils and killed themselves

>> No.12490463

>>12490449
it's pathetic?
for real I'd say tinder though

>> No.12490464

>>12490449
#metoo

>> No.12490467

>>12490462
this

>> No.12490492

>>12490449
It morphed from PUA -> Inner Game -> Cult of Self-Improvement

>> No.12490523

Chads had already corned the 'dating market'

>> No.12490532

>>12490449
It did not collapse, it just transitioned from PUA to the whole redpill/meninist stuff as the guys moved from their 20s and 30s to their 40s and over.

PUAs used to have shows on MTV however with the rise of SJWs and feminists it is now highly politically incorrect to even preach about approaching a woman, let alone objectifying women as some prey to catch, so the media money kind of reduced but the demand is just as high as ever.

>> No.12490570

>>12490449

stop posting this manlet goblin here

>> No.12490639

>>12490492
this, I think the same people shilling Juden Peterson right now are the same guys who did/would have paid for $10k PUA bootcamps

>> No.12490649

>>12490449
There gonna make a movie about this fuck. kek

>> No.12490653

>>12490449
Because any man who learns about women inevitably becomes MGTOW.

>> No.12490655
File: 113 KB, 309x700, Edmundio.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12490655

>>12490449
>>12490458
>>12490462
>>12490463
>>12490464
>>12490467
>>12490570
You guys remember Edmundo Jing? The Krantzenstein County Comptroller a few years back? He said he was going to give back to the taxpayers, all I saw him do was roll around in his Fiat and smoke PCP down by the teen center. Now he's sitting up in the Shinkahoma Federal Clink like a dingbat after he tried to put a hit out on the mayor - I think the Rolling Stones said it best, "you can't always get what you want."

>> No.12490666

>>12490649
Why?

>> No.12490675

>>12490666
It's natural that someone will make one. Look how many normies read the game.

>> No.12490678

>>12490666
Who knows, I thought Yekkelsby Township was a nice place, but I guess after the police department broke up his backroom poker game he had a bone to pick - go visit him, visiting hours are 9-3pm Monday through Friday

>> No.12490681

#metoo was created due to massive increase of incel PUAs approaching women

>> No.12490689

>>12490449
The stuff works. Got me laid. Can't fathom why guys aren't putting in the hours to learn it.

Anyone remember Gunwitch? He was an ogre but banged tons of women lots of them picked up during the day.

The whole "looks and money" thing is complete poison and not born out in my experience at all.

When I was skinny and took almost no care of myself I was pulling into the disgusting club toilet, or fucking a girl after talking to her for a few minutes.

Simple fucking principles- SJWs have crippled the development of the latest batch of 18-24 year olds.

>> No.12490698

>>12490681
Irkel P. Del Craccio is in there now, he's doing a hell of a job, 6 months in office and no sex tape - yet...

>> No.12490701

It changed because of Tinder and YouTube. All the tactics of peacocking and saying things as pickups don't work on Tinder. Tinder showed that only the best looking get all the women. And so all of your pick up lines are ineffective.

Secondly, YouTube exposes young guys to all types of information. So, calming down that feeling of sexual frustration and worthless doesn't solely come from PUA. There are other ways to learn about women, self help, podcasts, discipline guys, etc. So those guys like Mystery or Style came up and had their 15 minutes, but that is over now.

Plus in all honesty, a lot of the stuff they talked about was just goofy. I remember watching that show Mystery had on MTV or VH1 or whatever and thinking is this dude really getting laid or is he just putting on an act?

Lastly, the men that don't get women congregate around Redpill and MGTOW groups. At the end of the day, those are just dudes that don't get women who circle jerk each other to make themselves feel better.

>> No.12490745
File: 33 KB, 600x450, pua-mystery-seduce-girls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12490745

>>12490449

Im pretty sure it was becuz virgin fags who kept approaching girls never got laid.

Only mystery method routines work and all those routines went mainstream which dont work anymore.

>> No.12490758

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCaBelte1mc
this does a good job of explaining through extreme caricature

>> No.12490769
File: 115 KB, 500x396, hes-right-you-know-32644960.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12490769

>>12490653

>> No.12490796

>>12490462
this, market autoregulation works.

>> No.12490811

>>12490449
The biggest redpill of the game is that you can't fake attraction. It was all about understanding how not to spill your spaghetti with the ladies. For those really ugly/dumb motherfuckers it never did and never will.

>> No.12490832

>>12490449

>tfw feel disgusted by almost all thots and maybe a little annoyed by their presence so they all think im attracted to them because they just can't believe someone could be irritated by them

>> No.12490840
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12490840

30 replies to a one-liner and nobody called in question the whole premise of the thread?
I'd need a citation that PUA "collapsed". Afaik the RSD pickup artists with their gigantic youtube channels still make millions a year.

But for sure, from what I see in those peoples videos, there was a strong shift to not being as aggressive + just being le successful and attractive thereby + using instagram.
RSD Tyler in particular went 100% New Age LA culture in the last 5 year so,..

>> No.12491247

>>12490449
PUA is still alive, but today its marketed as "lifestyle", since the PUA has got too much negative media attention and women learned about MM (negging, peacocking etc).

Most of rhe PUA community try to distance themselves from the pua, since its not good for marketing and the MM works in the short term, but stunts your growth in rhe long term.

Most of the bad stuff of PUA has gone and the good stuff has gone into people promoting lifestyle blogs.

like a site called girlschase.com myself, because the writers are actually
a) Don't hate women, rather appreciate them both human beings and sexual beings -
and
b) Not give out toxic advice in general as a rule.

They have many writers there who you
can tell speak from experience.

If you prefer a more healhier approach to getting laid which doesnt require you to use scripted lines or negs all the time, I highly recommend girlschase.

So yeag, I would say PUA hasnt died, just evolved out of the crap it once was.

Mystery's married btw.

>> No.12491269

such a sad and stupid industry

had to listen to some lecture from some swedish ugly faggot I met on a party explaining how this all works.

no bro, you are ugly and socially awkward, nobody is going to fuck you, doesnt matter what kind of DHV or negs you place.

fucking retarded cucks.

>> No.12491284

>>12490449
It doesn't work the "magic" it claims.

You still have to actually go talk to girls, with Tinder, guys just realized they weren't attractive and took the black pill.

You can only improve yourself so much from PUA shit.

Most men realized that it makes more sense in terms of time investment to invest in politically trying to change the way women act, rather than learning a bunch of arbitrary bullshit and supplicate to their wants.

Who is more cucked? A guy who pops black pills, or a guy who spends thousands of dollars and thousands of hours trying to morph himself into something a woman will like?

>> No.12491286

Market saturation. Indirect competition. Fad cycles. Give it a bit and it'll come back.

>> No.12491296

>>12490449
It didn't. Its just changed slightly. But all it is is internet marketing and sales.

>> No.12491313

>>12490449
because PUA is just a bunch of psychological gimmicks the marketing industry had been leveraging for years. it was repackaged with misogyny to appeal to sexually disenfranchised men.

>> No.12491373

>>12491313
>because PUA is just a bunch of psychological gimmicks
Its actually basic social skills and some sales and persuasion mixed in with it.

>> No.12491404

>>12490492
>It morphed from PUA -> Inner Game -> Cult of Self-Improvement


well this really is the best way to get girls. essentially the boil down message is you have to literally become Chad.

>> No.12491426

>>12490449
people just pirated their books, at the same time market oversaturated

>> No.12491437

>>12490458
Worked for me. However, I took the playboy/G route. It was a niche sect that actually made fun of PUAs and "the manosphere". Always got called larpers and big baller trolls. But we were the only real niggas there.

>> No.12491444

>>12491437
To answer your question, most pua gave up or became men going their own way. Then trump came along and all the whites became family oriented.

>> No.12491510

>>12490449

It's now considered weird and anti-social to cold approach in public because of the popularity of dating apps. It's still acceptable in very niche locations like bars and clubs, however in these areas you're surrounded by competition and women are on their guard expecting to be approached.

>> No.12491526
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12491526

It's sad to see what some of the pua have become

>> No.12491703

>>12491510
You have clearly never done any day game.
You can be that friendly guy they "just happened" to strike up a conversation with take them for a coffee and get the number or fuck them. It really is that easy if you work at it.
Women don't give a fuck about getting approached if you do it right. One example. I was at a bar with a couple of other mates ripped off my shirt because it was funny then literally gone round and made out with pretty much every woman there. Completely delusional self confidence. They were all watching this happen, so what does that say about game and women in general? They are all hardwired the same way and the behavior you think is acceptable, what you can "get away with" is what your mind limits it to.

How is this not every man's favorite hobby? There is nothing that comes close.

>> No.12491724

>>12490449
porn got better and cheaper

>> No.12491738

>>12490449

It went Mainstream on tv shows like How I Met Your Mother with pick up artist Barney Stinson, once the market got saturated and everyone had the knowledge, the value of PUA went to zero.

>> No.12491740

>>12491526
I don't like pugs but that is a fucking nice looking pug. I bet that dude pulls.

>> No.12491768

>>12490689

Gunwitch was a creepy fuck who sometimes banged 3s and 4s but lied about everything. Then he shot a bitch in the face.

PUA was a fucking fad. Guys got into it and either realized that you don’t need to do a bunch of contrived shit to get laid and settled down as they got old or they gave up and became incels and MGTOW after getting scammed out of many thousands of dollars. Now younger dudes are afraid to even try because of MeToo

>> No.12491811

>>12491703
>How is this not every man's favorite hobby?
Because it's degenerate, a waste of money, and never leads to anything serious.
>There is nothing that comes close.
Crypto has taken over my life and I feel no shame about it.

>> No.12491838

>>12491404

You don’t even have to become Chad. Just more Chad-like. There are a lot more ordinary guys are fucking up and ignoring or turning off bitches who are attracted to them than there are guys who are just too ugly/troll-like to ever get laid. The first group just needed to clean up some things—fashion, having the guts to approach, learning some basic social skills and how to identify attraction signals and then escalate. Once they do that, they’re fine even if fhey’re not Chad. Unfortunately, there’s no hope for that latter group so they become incels/MGTOW.

>> No.12491877

>>12491373

It was an attempt by autists and sociopaths to teach other autists and sociopaths how to simulate basic social skills. That’s why it made so many guys act weird and failed them.

>> No.12491896

>>12490449
doesn't work in general. it only works for a very small section of men that are good looking but had low confidence.

>> No.12491906

PUA is the most cringe inducing shit, neck yourself if you did this

>> No.12491912

I swear, the incel/lookism culture ended up hating PUAs more than feminists and their male orbiters ever did.

That said, the old-school stuff, the Roissy-Mystery stuff, is timeless, and it's free.

>> No.12491924

>>12491768
https://archive.org/details/BarryKirkeyRadioShowEpisodes63-100

Have a listen to the porn theatre episode. Guy was funny.

>Now younger dudes are afraid to even try because of MeToo
Which is a problem.

>>12491811
>Because it's degenerate, a waste of money, and never leads to anything serious.

If you can approach and date women using cold approach you can select a partner from a wider selection of girls, who you will have far more compatibility with. Hooking up with someone from your social circle is so limiting.

>Crypto has taken over my life and I feel no shame about it.

No problem with that at all.

However I suggest going to a bar or club, don't drink (have a few beers if you suffer from anxiety I guess) and approach women non-stop for an hour. That is your only goal. Don't allow any time between approaches. Done right, you will experience a state that is very hard to replicate. Everything fucking clicks. Your mind shuts up. People will react around you- like guys jumping out the way to let you through to the bar. Girls will be attracted without "doing" anything. You will also notice physical changes- your pupils dilate significantly- I swear something is released in the brain.
Anyway that's enough about pickup!

>> No.12491945

Its becoming increasingly difficult to avoid the black pill. With the exponential rise and effect on society phenomena like tinder, instagram, love island etc have had - men are beginning to realise the raw animal nature of womens sexuality, and that no 'PUA strategy' can get you laid if you dont meet a base level of sexual attractiveness.

>> No.12491962

>>12491924
Fucking cringe.

People are getting out of your way because you look creepy as fuck and they're afraid you might touch them.

My little brother moved away and was bored so he started hanging out with some PUAfags and I can't go out with him anymore it's so embarrassing. PUA is just being deluded enough to think you being awkward and creepy as fuck all over the bar is normal. Sure he got laid once every once and a while but it is not worth it.

>> No.12491968

>>12490464
>>12490681
MeToo was almost exclusively rich Hollywood liberal male feminists getting screwed, what does that have to do with PUA?

Did Roosh ever face MeToo charges? No he didn't.

>> No.12491980

>>12491945
This kills society.
What happens when 90% of men refuse to contribute to it anymore because only 10% of men manage to get with women who really love them...(and even then...)

Oh sure they'll be replaced by bots; but someone has to design said bots (for the foreseeable future at least) and usually the guys who design bots aren't muscular chads they are often skinny pajeets living in a dark room hypnotized by a screen trying to make money and "make the world better" (for whom?)

>> No.12492019

>>12491912
>That said, the old-school stuff, the Roissy-Mystery stuff, is timeless, and it's free.
Exactly this. People these days get way too caught up in the goofy elements of the old PUA guys without reading into the simple truths it exposed about female behavior. That was the real, original redpill. You don't have to be some peacocking/obnoxious fagmaster doing 1000s of approaches to have learned at least a little bit about how women work.

There hasn't been a single valuable thing added to the PUA scene since like, 2008. Everything after that time has been an MLM scam or something like it. Everything you need to know is out there and available for free and won't cost you more than a few hours of reading. People who hate on PUA are just reacting to the obnoxious late-arriving element that tried to monetize everything and/or got brainwashed by SJWs.

>> No.12492069

>>12490449
>Why did the PUA industry collapse in recent years?
It didn't. It simply rebranded.
Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. Allows people to package more holistic, comprehensive principles into it.

>> No.12492077

ex-pua here... all PUA does is increase chances with women who are your standard coz you talk to more 6/10's for example....BUT I REPEAT- THE 10/10'S will still choose Chad over you....PUA will get you a date with them and maybe a kiss BUT thats it

Chad can be imitated but never REPLICATED.

>> No.12492102

>>12492077
PUA at best is like alcohol, merely social lube

it merely streamlines the process

>> No.12492118

>friend got into PUA at 29 years old
>he got his first fatty gf ever
>now he constantly tries to annoy me into saying "I can make you learn to hook up man" like if i didn't knew what was going on
>he doesn't even realize most men have already grown up from the "validation from women" phase and are existentially coping through hobbies, religion or politics

it's annoying and i pity him seriously, please don't do this, it's cringe, everyone can see what you are trying to do

>> No.12492127

>>12492102
my fellow black man. you fuckin nailed it. i remember sweating all summer long for hours and finally landed a model. she went on 1 date with me and fucked Chad all summer long. i only got 1 kiss from her. fuck this garbage

>> No.12492154

>reddit spacing: the thread
wtf is going on in here

>> No.12492157

>>12492118
everyone I ever met that was into PUA was ugly as fuck, awkward as fuck, and if they were succesful, could only bag fatties.

>> No.12492159

>>12492077
Thing with "PUA" is that it's all if it is just common knowledge among socially adapted men. Learning 'the rules' won't do any good to an incel, it's like learning how to drive a bike by reading a book. Women are amazing at seeing through BS and trying to copy chad behaviour will just come across as creepy if done by an incel.

tldr you have to live it

>> No.12492186

>>12492077
Isn't it ironic how PUA teachers like Roosh can't find a loyal wife?

>> No.12492188
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12492188

What's the matter, /biz/? Afraid we might fuck your gf?

>> No.12492224
File: 373 KB, 1080x1920, Screenshot_2018-11-29-22-52-47-209_com.android.chrome.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12492224

Look at this to understand what makes a Chad

>> No.12492284

>>12491924
Limiting my alcohol consumption is something I can attempt but have difficulty with due to over a decade of heavy substance abuse. I am not going to approach random women in a bar without a drink. That's autistic and gives off vibes of trying to drug and/or date rape them.

Hookups and flings always lead me to regret and self-loathing. I am not in a position to be dating anyone right now. When I find myself comfy financially I may give it another go.

>> No.12492309

>>12490449

Because the real redpilled is trying to dilute the nuances of human social interaction into a bunch of if-else functions doesn't make up for having shit-tier source code.

>> No.12492314
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12492314

>>12490449
Millenials have insufficient testosterone levels.

>> No.12492319

>>12492309
This is accurate.

>> No.12492330

>>12490449
>Why did the PUA industry collapse in recent years?

#metoo made it too dangerous to game women.

>> No.12492342

>>12492330
See:

>>12491968

>> No.12492405

The game by Neil Strauss is all you need to read and get it. In the end he said it himself, all this shit he learned about attracting girls was bullshit. All he actually needed to do was find something he was passionate about and go for it, instead of focussing on women.
It is an interesting read, and I would definitely recommend it. However, it is also quite depressing, knowing that most girls are that shallow. I expected some more from them. But it is good to understand why some men are more successful than other.

IMO actually doing the PUA stuff in real life was bullshit. Do you really think I am going to do all these kind of dance monkey bullshit just for women to like me? Fuck no, they will like me or they can fuck off.

>> No.12492417
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12492417

>>12490681
no it was created by ugly feminists that wanted attention because they get none. pic related the founder of #metoo.

>> No.12492507

>>12492417

That fucking nose doe bruh

>> No.12492541

>>12492417
this. #metoo is the metatasis of feminism, they can scream for attention - any attention - but hypergamy leaves the 0/10 (possible -1/10) like your pic related behind, so to fill the void they create a negative attention outlet that the media runs with.
PUA didn't die, OP is an incel KHV, mentally deficient males either went mgtow or blackpill because society is now a garbage heap with feminism ruined it (and shitty men allowed it tbf) so they have to have an outlet. the core of it - learning how women and the world work in reality, not how you think they should work - has never and will never change until biology does in like 800 generations.

>> No.12492565

pua only works on skanks

i went from 255lbs to 185lbs and girls started throwing themselves at me. I never knew what life on easy mode was until I dropped a fuckton of weight.

>> No.12492674

>>12492565
>pounds

burgers need to be gassed already

>> No.12492688

>>12492541
>8 generations.
Ftfy

>> No.12492718

>>12490449
People finally figured out that it's all about looks.

>Source: Average looking guy with average results after years of wasting time reading bullshit

>> No.12492766

by talking to more girls you naturally will get some results eventually and also get less awkward just by experience alone.

Look the best you can, approach girls, escalate, be somewhat persisten and hope for the best.

>> No.12492829

>>12490653
Weak ass male version of feminism. Get culled faggot.

>> No.12492866

>>12492829
Dab

>> No.12492900
File: 35 KB, 360x360, mystery.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12492900

kek

>> No.12492910

>>12492718
Incorrect. You can still bang hotties by making them laugh and having interesting things to say.

>> No.12493121

>>12490449
Probably because it's a load of shit. Dating for guys is a numbers game, period. Average-looking guys have about a 1%-5% success rate with women who are the selectors. Best thing you can do is subject yourself to failure over and over until you find a bite. The only way to improve your odds is to be extremely good-looking, extremely wealthy or have celebrity status.

>> No.12493145

>>12490449
To echo everyone else in this thread: PUA doesn't work in the Tinder era.

>> No.12493175

>>12492910
t. never been laid

>> No.12493188

>>12493145
PUA never worked.

>> No.12493228

Why is biz so obsessed with this ginger faggot. Or is it 1 autist posting it over and over.

>> No.12493280

>>12492077
yeah this you end up at your same level and you still have to put in work for it. you think my father/grandfather had to do approaches, learn routines and all that shit? they married young, virgin waifus from their social circles and were happily married for all their lifes. nowadays you gotta put in work to get some bitch who had tons of dicks already and most of these broads arent good for anything besides banging. the fact that PUA exists is a symptom of a sick, decaying society.

>> No.12493333

>>12493121
Did the most handsome caveman pass on his genes? Nope. It was the strong brutal one who would have fucked all of the females and killed the betas who tried to encroach on his territory.

It's easier if you are 6'4 and model handsome but any scrub can learn to be social and lay hot women.

When you start you will likely be rejected by hundreds and thousands of women. Then you'll get the odd success here and there and eventually it becomes consistent. Who cares if it takes years? The whole process is incredibly fun.

>>12493145
Millions of years of evolution is not displaced by a dating app. Go to a coffee shop and engage with a woman in the q or sat opposite you.

>>12492910
Yes, but also by spiking their emotions, leading physically and sexually, not being emotionally attached to the outcome, which is basically demonstrating high value behavior that causes attraction in women and is hard coded into their dna.

Practically speaking a big part of it is having good logistics and a place to pull them to.

Getting laid though has jack shit to do with the car you drive or your bank balance unless you are looking for a gold digger. Your rolex is not going to get her wet and is try hard.

>> No.12493367

>>12493333

You think attraction is completely biological but it's also social and related to the ideology of our times, let's completely flip your examples, let a cavemen live in modern times and try to get women to consciously lay with him, he wouldn't have a chance against people who are considered famous or had lot of power, at most he would do the same he did in their times which would be rape but that's not what PUA wants (they want to make women consciously lay with them), which would make him get what he wants but he wouldn't exactly be playing the game good

You can't do it with just PUA, there is far more going on in our society than behaviour, you need a good family, money, prestige, power, friends, career, hobbies, being young, etc

>> No.12493375

>>12493367
It's called social status and it's also wired into our biology via serotonine

>> No.12493391

>>12493367

If you say you can fake all those things by your behaviour i would seriously consider that you may be younger than 18, any women will eventually find your real life and how in control you are off it, PUA may help you with one night stands but seriously only delusional incels glorify that shit, the amount of crazy girls you can find in one night stands is seriously off the charts and you need to be a sociopath to be able to rub that shit out of yourself without becoming depressed at long term

>> No.12493395

>>12493333
the problem is not getting laid but having fulffilling relationships though. the best PUA guys I know are all complete clusterfucks and their relationships are a mess. theyre fantastic at getting laid but have completely dysfunctional relationships. and thats probably not surprising because it takes a certain kind of personality to go through hundres/thousands of rejections and deal with all the bullshit just to get some pussy, most men with some sense will give up way before that or end up having a gf and drop out of the game. most top PUAs have some serious screws lose to get to the level where they are why in the world woudl you want to have sex with hundreds of women in the first place, it gets really old after a couple IME

>> No.12493452

>>12492188
Kek!

>> No.12493467

>>12490689
This. Most PUA is bullshit but RSD actually had legit advice and it helped a short brown manlet like me get laid.

>> No.12493482

>>12490681
Actually it was Jews raping white women but nice try.

>> No.12493489

>>12493467
you have to go back

>> No.12493492

>>12493333
>Did the most handsome caveman pass on his genes? Nope. It was the strong brutal one who would have fucked all of the females and killed the betas who tried to encroach on his territory.
Good point, almost forgot about rape- but then why even bother with PUA?

>> No.12493523
File: 76 KB, 1000x756, DE933302-3BAB-4758-A4CD-BF6701A236B4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12493523

>>12490449
Here’s a hot fucking tip from a god, you disgusting retards:

People can smell it a mile away, If it’s inauthentic. This goes for all aspects of life... time tests authenticity.

Any reason besides pity that I even waste the time to type this for a bunch of imbeciles, defies logic.

Apply this to your lives, you swine!

>> No.12493680

I once saw a PUA person get physically picked up and moved to the side at a bar by a natural unpretentious chad.

>> No.12493716

>>12493367
You seem to agree that the core basis of attraction remains the same regardless of how that is outwardly represented in society. High value.

>You can't do it with just PUA, there is far more going on in our society than behaviour, you need a good family, money, prestige, power, friends, career, hobbies, being young, etc

The black pill is you really need none of this to be good with women. High value is communicated by expressions and behavior.

A "nice family" or being a doctor has nothing to do with vibing and getting a girl into a sexual state of mind.

One of my frens is a lone wolf is not great looking, drives a shit car and his parents are divorced. However, he's funny as fuck, chill, knows how to lead and can make girls squirt. He gets laid all the time and has dated high calibre, very attractive women.

Assuming he's an exception, Jeff Bezos v Tyler- who pulls the girl from the club?

>>12493391
Have you tried going out 3/4 nights or days a week and really hammering this?

The girl you thought was so well put together and came from a classy background will suck dick in a train toilet. They are far more sexual than us.

>>12493395
Completely agree. Most people who have been in the game get bored with one night stands. Unfulfilling.

It is just frustrating when people who have never stepped from behind their keyboard and actually tried to make it work or have given up after a short time come up with all of these seemingly clever rationalizations.

>>12493467
Nice :)

>> No.12493758
File: 212 KB, 953x725, 0sw9fkj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12493758

>>12493188
Just look at all those hundreds of thousands of youtube videos by sovereign-citizens, rambling on about how they can get around laws which apparently don't apply to them.
Doesn't work out in real life. Just like how PUA's jacking each other off online doesn't lead to them having sex.

>> No.12493761

>>12493680
I would have paid to see it. They never learn.

>> No.12493777

>>12493716

>The girl you thought was so well put together and came from a classy background will suck dick in a train toilet. They are far more sexual than us.

Obviously, I agree, but that's part of the problem, women have a sexual impulse that is a flesh desire the same as men, men want to rape or fuck anything, women want to have attention and show themselves, both good men and good woman realize this and go against their impulses, nowadays almost no one does this, if you want to start a family you don't try to get laid, you start seeking the people that go against their very nature instead of falling down to your nature, it has nothing to do with a career or social status

I don't want to have sex, i don't care, if anything i would want to start a family, but nowadays it's impossible if people don't go against their desires and tame their flesh

You don't seem to understand this, that even males if they follow their nature can't start a family, if you get to PUA you will get laid that's sure, but you won't ever be able to create something beyond that, the self-realization and redemption you seek through woman will never come through sex, because sex is pleasure and joy comes from happiness that's meaningful, sex is inherently meaningless if without purpose, you will only be seeking the next high instead of sublimating your higher desires that come from the soul (the soul is which seeks joy from meaning)

>> No.12493841

>>12493523

Authenticity is a meme. It’s just a performance. When people can tell the difference, they prefer the one closest to what they THINK the real thing should be like, even if it’s fake.

>> No.12493862

>>12490449

The incels, brainlets, and self hating s o i boys in this thread are fucking hilarious! Top Kek. You are unironically proving the stereotypes about 4chan true. Don’t ever change, anons.

>> No.12493873

>>12490449
Women's standards got higher, way higher. So incels would rather commit suicide and not keep playing this rigged game

>> No.12493874

It’s because of you faggots that average looking 5/10 fat guys like me with no money or connections can still get all kinds of pussy. Thanks, cuck faggots!

>> No.12493896

Uggos realized that the $5,000 they paid for PUA "lessons" would be better spent on plastic surgery and/or gym equipment.

>> No.12493924

>>12491924
>You will also notice physical changes- your pupils dilate significantly- I swear something is released in the brain.

Fucking lmao

>> No.12493979

Probably a resurgence because it's harder than ever to get laid or get a gf now. Game now gets you 6-7's if you work hard. If you are doing better it's because you are Chad or have crazy social standing. Millennials and zoomers are living in the worst times when it comes to getting a gf. Women have insane options like never before, too many men of all ages competing and hitting on girls 17-25. You literally have to be the best to get something good in that age range and even if you somehow do it, you are just renting her pussy, she can and will monkey branch to better cock the next day.

Game is a bandaid for civilizational level catastrophe. You need political solutions for this.

>> No.12493992

>>12493979
>You need political solutions for this.
This. Dr. Peterson is right. We need state enforced monogamy.

>> No.12494013

>>12493992

Fuck that. I like fucking your bitches, cucks!

>> No.12494032

>>12494013
>crying-wojack-wearing-smug-mask.jpg

>> No.12494078

What kind of shilling/manipulation does OP employ in his post? PUA is clearly not dying.

>> No.12494086

>>12490492
After Julien Transformation Mastery you don't really care about PUA anymore.

>> No.12494100

>>12490689
>fucking a girl after talking to her for a few minutes.
Larp or something fucked up about the girl

>> No.12494118

>>12490832
Incel detected

>> No.12494119

>>12492405
This. As long as you’re passionate about something other than women, women will flock to you.

>> No.12494127

>>12494118

so now you are an incel even if you are a volcel and not give a fuck? how does that even works?

>> No.12494134

>>12490492
Correct

One you move from canned lines to internalized broader behavior changes there’s no need for furry hats and less desperation about getting laid

Frequently you end up married with kids

>> No.12494140

>>12493523
exactly, anon. i get that some guys are extremely socially awkward, but i don't think faking confidence actually works. there's too many tells...nervous fidgeting, passive posture, uncertainty in the eyes and voice. seriously, lads, if you want to know the secret, start studying jiu jitsu...you'll learn how to defend yourself (and a woman), you'll meet some bros, you'l get used to physical contact....after a few months of steady training...you'll have some genuine confidence.

>> No.12494156

>>12491703
>then literally gone round and made out with pretty much every woman there.
Exaggeration if I've ever seen one.

>> No.12494161

>>12490653
After learning about how fucked in the head millions of years of ingrained instinct makes people I just want to be a monk. Fuck everything else.

>> No.12494170

>>12491924
>Done right, you will experience a state that is very hard to replicate. Everything fucking clicks. Your mind shuts up. People will react around you- like guys jumping out the way to let you through to the bar

DO NOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE POWER OF POSITIVE THOUGHT! ESPECIALLY COLLECTIVE POSITIVE THOUGHT!

THIS SHIT IS GOING TO REACH PUSSY EASILY!
HOLD THAT THOUGHT AND VISUALIZE IT IN YOUR MIND EVERYDAY AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE STARTING NOW AND IT WILL MANIFEST INTO REALITY. DO IT! I'M NOT JOKING!

VISUALIZE AS OFTEN AND AS DETAILED AS POSSIBLE!

>> No.12494190

>>12492077
>THE 10/10'S will still choose Chad over you
This.
t. friend zoned by two 9s I clicked with in two different stages of life.

>> No.12494196

If a black anon like me can get laid in a predominantly conservative white area, then so can these PUA/Incel bums on 4chan. Not even cuckposting either

>> No.12494197

>>12492157
An attractive person wouldn't need PUA...

>> No.12494229

yikes, talk about putting pussy on a pedestal

just go fuck a hooker and get over it, sex isn't even that fun

>> No.12494243

>>12493395
This is why you need high functioning autism like OP's pic

>> No.12494269

>>12493992
Marx said we need Pussy Communism in his manifesto

>> No.12494310

>>12491247
Mystery just got divorced by his wife because he became a male feminist. You fuckin hack

>> No.12494371

>>12493979
Meanwhile just get a braphog desu

>> No.12494430

>>12493680
Lol but why did he pick him up.

>> No.12494442

>>12490449
check out Aaron Sleazy
/thread

>> No.12494472
File: 1.30 MB, 311x240, 1394380184837.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12494472

>>12493924
lol'd

fucking lol at that poster's IQ

>> No.12495158

>>12494430
PICK UP artist. So he picked up the artist.

>> No.12495483

>>12491968
roosh got fucking banned from half the developed world, though

>> No.12495502

>>12492284
1) goto bartender;
2) get one rocks glass, lime, ice, soda, straw.
3) you have a drink

>> No.12495681

>>12490449
Autist here. How the fuck do people just start conversations with random strangers?

>> No.12496214

>>12491945
>love island
Never heard of it. going to google this wish me luck

>> No.12496223

>>12495483
Being literally pro-rape will do that to you.

>> No.12496250

>>12490701
Under rated post.
Tinder was key to its demise.

>> No.12496271

Wouldnt it be worth marketing this stuff to poo's?

>> No.12496283

>>12490458
The opposite, it worked.
Never cure a disease or make unbreakable cars. You will run out of business soon

>> No.12496298

Did anyone else read Roissy in DC in the blog's prime around 2009?

Changed my life. All the materi as l prior to 2011 is some of the most important work EVER written

>> No.12496332
File: 486 KB, 1490x809, 1519742230553.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12496332

>>12490639
>this, I think the same people shilling Juden Peterson right now are the same guys who did/would have paid for $10k PUA bootcamps
I remember the days when those PUA bootcamps were all the rage. Fun story I heard back then, it didn't matter how much you paid or how good of a coach you had, it was how optimistic you were that determined your outcome success.

>> No.12496384

>>12491738
>It went Mainstream on tv shows like How I Met Your Mother with pick up artist Barney Stinson, once the market got saturated and everyone had the knowledge, the value of PUA went to zero.
this reminds me of Bitcoin...

>> No.12496774

>>12496298
>Roissy in DC

Links? I like this sort of stuff when it's actually well written and thought out.

>> No.12496805

>>12490449
Online dating is too fuckin easy.

>> No.12497432

>>12493992
We already have enforced monogamy idiot, the issue is that it's serial monogamy.

>> No.12497471

>>12497432
Matrimony of old = Having sex
Initiation of sex with a person should initiate some sort of matrimonial bond, as this is what in effect was happening for centuries.

>> No.12497630

You know, sometimes I wonder how the fuck does this shit manage to keep staying underground after all those years and billions funneled into active marketing. How do channels like the RSD channels manage to get only 100-200k views per video, how does only 1 out of 100 people outside actually even know about this, and 1 out of 100 from them actually understand it..
Then threads like this come up and remind me that 99% of the people out there are literal primates who're incapable of realizing basic things, much like a primate is incapable of realizing that tools can help him regardless if you try to show it in front of him or even grab his own hand and show him that tools are great. That's actually a great analogy because this is quite literally happening to you - you're being shown a tool for success, but you're simply incapable of understanding it because you're a primitive subhuman and the strong urge inside you to revert to autopilot and do whatever your primitive brain desires for short term simply overrides any conscious attempt at anything else, like a gorilla ignorantly throwing the tool aside and going back to being a basic primate.

But hey you do you, just remember that AI is coming and it's going to filter all of you subhumans into permanent irrelevancy, while people like me who not only embrace the tool that is given to them but actively reach out for more, will prosper. It doesn't even matter whether its about girls or money, it's the fact that people like me aren't blind to information while people like you are helplessly blinded that matters. You can go and read about SEO, marketing, smartphone app making, youtube and everything else that's easily milkable and profitable, yet you'll never do it because you're the primate that will throw the tool aside and go run in circles instead, all the while whining for not getting what the tool was supposed to give you.

>> No.12497634

>>12496283
lmao, fucking retard, there are new customers being born and moulded every minute

>> No.12497644

>>12497630
based schizo poster

>> No.12497647

>>12497644
>d-downvoted :(

yeah whatever, primate

>> No.12497648
File: 132 KB, 795x1036, 1546757780423.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12497648

>>12495483
>>12496223
>banned from the UK
>the country that allowed Rotherham to happen

Reflects worse on the UK than it does on Roosh.

>> No.12497673

>>12497630
>seo
Outdated

>marketing
What kind?

>smartphone app making
Dumb unless you have a good idea

>youtube
Oversaturated

>> No.12497783

>>12497648
part and parcel

>> No.12497813

>>12490449
blackpill mostly

Years ago you could actually convince a 5'2'' Indian janitor subhuman that he can fuck blond bombshells with "game" and "personality".

Now he will just read blackpill experiments and studies and kill himself.

But RSD guy is still rich as fuck and gets laid. His "students" are sheep tho.

Have you seen people attending the seminars? Omega overdose: manlets, chinks, nerds, uggos, freaks, etc...they have no hope

>> No.12497821

>>12497813
>the seminars?

You could just read Roissy, you know.

>> No.12497828

>>12490689
>The stuff works. Got me laid. Can't fathom why guys aren't putting in the hours to learn it.

If we count "cold approach" as PUA then yes, it works and got me laid as well. But I was already tall, very fit and ripped from years of gym and above average in looks + had money, so...thinking the Indian janitor manlet will have same results is delusional.

PUA only works for upper tier normies, Chadlites and Chads.

>> No.12497847

>>12497828
>gatekeeping to such a retarded degree

>> No.12497851

>>12491437
>>12491444
Where to find that niche sect?

>> No.12497854

>>12491313
42nd post best post

>> No.12497896

>>12491945
But the black pill doesn't offer a solution, only empty nihilism
Take a look at /r9k/, lookism, r/incels, etc. Is that what you are striving for?

>> No.12497899
File: 87 KB, 755x553, 1545871683048.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12497899

>>12493280

>> No.12498045

>>12494196
Are you physically attractive?

>> No.12498106
File: 10 KB, 380x380, BD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12498106

There are still guys selling serious dating advice out there that legitimately work. It's the PUA side of it that died, mainly when they transitioned from selling advice to pandering to right wing incels with shitty clickbait headlines for meager ad revenue. ie: Return of Kings and others

In the end only pic related survived in the long run and is still making bank despite being not attached to the whole manosphere thing as the others.

>> No.12498114

What did these PUA even say or recommend? I feel like a whole big fad whizzed by me and I didn't even notice. I've been having a pretty bad dry spell when before I had no problems getting women so I'm just thinking about all of this more and more lately.

>> No.12498129

>>12498106
Whats pic related?

>> No.12498410

>>12494196
in a conservative area it is easier to get laid retard !!

>> No.12498418
File: 121 KB, 720x553, 1545871683048__01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12498418

>>12498410

>> No.12498822

>>12491284
>politically trying to change the way women act,
Lmao. You can't make women not want Chad throught politics you autist. Women always wanted Chad, they just didn't have Tinder etc to have a global pool of Chads.

Basically be goodlooking or you are fucked.

>> No.12498830 [DELETED] 
File: 73 KB, 634x784, rich genetic elite instagrammers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12498830

>>12498418
>getting laid with sub-attractive girls is better paying for hot escorts
Peterson tier delusion.

>> No.12498835

Those women can't really get Chad, they can only get Chad to fuck them once or twice.
This leaves them disillusioned when they can't get him to commit because they always thought, wrongly, that they have the power to snag him permanently.
Stopping thots from chasing Chad is in their long term interest.

>> No.12498845
File: 73 KB, 634x784, rich genetic elite instagrammers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12498845

>>12498418
>getting laid with sub-attractive girls is better than paying for hot escorts
Peterson tier delusion.

>> No.12498852

>>12492188
holy kek megacringe

>> No.12498854
File: 444 KB, 517x530, bone pilll.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12498854

>>12498835
>women rotate Chads when they are on their prime (high school to college)
>you studycel throught your prime
>finally get to fuck some used and abused girl
Lmao

>> No.12498856

>>12498845
>Being that much of a stereotypical waster

>> No.12498870

>>12491526
the dog looks like it has been on the brink of trying to plan its suicide dash into traffic for its entire existence and hasn't given up yet

>> No.12498874

>>12498852
Can you believe that those guys were worshipped as dating gurus 10 years ago?

>> No.12498876

>>12490840
It’s well documented that no one is buying PUA related books and shit anymore

>> No.12498880
File: 84 KB, 640x541, bonelaw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12498880

>>12492541
>it's the "in the old days it was better" memer again
You fucking autist. There was no other outcome but what we have to day. Women always wanted Chad, but they were stuck with the local incels since they had no other choices. Now with the internet they can upload pics to instagram and get DM's by Chads worldwide. Keep coping you fucking bonelets.

>> No.12498884

>>12497813

Holy kek. The thought of a manlet pajeet going up to a blonde godess spitting pua game has my sides in orbit.

Besides if pajeet paid what like 5k for a bootcamp couldnt the rsd crew just pay an escort like 300 bucks to be in the club for the night and be told to be friendly to the pajeet that talks to her? Profit margin >90%

>> No.12498888

>>12498856
cope

>> No.12498932

I read a few pua books and watched rsd videos back in the day. Also have a roommate who is 3x more interested in it then i was.

The value i got from it was from Natural Tim and some basic skills about triggering her emotions to keep her enganged. Everything else was cringe to me.

My roommate was the one who did shotguns, cold.approaches, negs,peacocking, and tactics. Super cringe. I am white and fit and he is a asian manlet. Whenever we went out together wed talk to girls. I would just stand there as he tried relentlessly to make chicks like him and theyd always end up talking to me. He got pissed one night and said you have it so easy being white. If I was white and tall Id destroy you in game

Kek. That night he was blackpilled

>> No.12498954

>>12492284
>Hookups and flings always lead me to regret and self-loathing. I am not in a position to be dating anyone right now

hello, me. same with the drinking, too. I'm a couple weeks on the wagon and feel pretty fucking amazing. also doing intermittent fasting and eating well. if you need help over the hump of drinking, get some kudzu pills. work is my main trigger, so I take them about 3 pm so they help with the cravings by the time I'm home. have a look and good luck, anon.

>> No.12498957

>>12490492
yup

>> No.12499037
File: 13 KB, 328x499, TheFoundationforExploration.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12499037

>>12497896
>But the black pill doesn't offer a solution, only empty nihilism

Not yet. Seemingly, life is pointless. But there is so much more. Read Goonan's 'The Foundation for Exploration'.

>> No.12499121

>>12497813
there is a french youtuber (autodisciple) who was a pua before doing pnl and self-development videos. He get laid and banged hot chicks. And hes a manlet. We live in a world where everything is possible, of course being a brown manlet will make it harder to fuck a 8/10 blonde but its not impossible.

>> No.12499222

>>12492188
I want to fuck Mystery

>> No.12499230

>>12497896
The solution is either surgery or making money to cope with escorts

>> No.12499237

>>12498835
Nor true. They just need to be more deceptive and put holes in the condoms

>> No.12499577

>>12490689

>its easy bro here look at my e-stats

>> No.12499604
File: 1.02 MB, 1063x1115, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12499604

>>12490745

if you watched mystery's in fields he acts effeminate as fuck. fast forward 10 years and now he is transitioning

>> No.12499621

>>12498876

roosh said he stopped approaching and that the pickups on youtube are setup. he still writes books on it though

>> No.12499647

>>12491526

roosh is the only one who isnt trying to scam you

>> No.12499725

>>12493188

this. like all self improvement, people follow it for two weeks then fall back into hardwired behavior patterns

when your dads sperm hit your moms egg it was already determined you would be a beta. its easy to blame smart phones and feminism but the problem lies in foundational human biology

>> No.12499742

>>12493467

enjoy your scizophrenia

>> No.12499760
File: 272 KB, 562x535, 1547417856971.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12499760

can we bury this thread already? you cant be serious keeping this shit alive. fucking virgins

>> No.12499766

>>12493716
>Have you tried going out 3/4 nights or days a week and really hammering this?

This is why people hate PUA. Every criticism is met with "lol just do it more bro".

>> No.12499785

>>12494140

the secret is there is no secret. its just dumb luck. puas just spin the wheel non stop and then delude themselves into thinking they have figured it out

>> No.12499813

>>12497813
>But RSD guy is still rich as fuck and gets laid.

he uses his celebrity to fuck groupies then tells his lemmings how easy it is

>> No.12499874

>>12490681

>people will try to claim this is wrong
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QKoSRztlZq8

PUA is in decline because it's a lie. The red/black pills are the only truth.

>> No.12500010

>>12494127
idk. maybe it's gold-digging consumer parasites without ego and therefore no notion of (social self-)respect trying to shame social and sentient people with self-respect into complying to their parasitic practices. (= unsentient consumer roasties who enter relationships for exclusively parasitic and asocial reasons in their 30s are proactively shaming critics as "insecure" or "incel" for not wanting their used up selfs. that is... they want to prevent the sentiment of not taking them from becoming popular. when the question really is why you would take these inherently flawed NPCs without self-respect over... mmm... symmetrically blushing kawaii loyal 2d virgin waifu robots...)

>> No.12500034

>>12490449
It became an over-saturated and over-marketed niche. It made me 6 figures from it when I was pushing PUA traffic on pornsites and POF. Chinese and Indian marketers ran with it and just fucked it up with their shitty landers and copy.

>> No.12500117
File: 87 KB, 992x744, Elliot_Rodger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12500117

I was interested to look into the roots of modern-day incel culture. Far as I can tell, the blackpill ideology was borne in substantial part out of deep loathing among loser men for PUA fakery, in turn evolving into the lookism trend - and that the Elliot Rodger shooting, and his postings on PUAHate, drew attention to these ideologies from all over the Internet and let it spread and grow over years into the incel subculture of today.

I'd honestly had no idea Elliot Rodger was so influential. And I'm a bit amazed at how strongly the PUA hate persists to this day - it's like a foundational principle among incels.

>> No.12500490

>>12498954
I've been able to cut down on the drinking, but that means I rarely go out. I can have dinner with my mom and be fine on 1-3 beers. With my friends there's a 50% chance it goes from pitchers to shots to doing blow until 6am. Like I said above, it is a degenerate lifestyle and a waste of money. I was sober for a year but it didn't make me happy. I actually fell off the wagon over some thot who doesn't even matter. Nowadays I work 2 jobs and spend all my free time reading about crypto. Went out two weeks ago and ended up picking up some disgusting hoodrat from the bar. I washed all my sheets and blankets with hot water and will be getting tested in a few months. I would rather be celibate than hating myself every morning after.
>>12495502
Still rapey. Also drunk women are insufferable when you're sober.

>> No.12500602

>>12500117

same reason they hate jordan peterson. its pink pill bullshit

>> No.12500652

>>12500602
fucking Gorilla Mindset is better than Jordan Peterson. To liken the better PUA stuff to JP is just unfair.

>> No.12500653
File: 671 KB, 1200x1000, 1546472233087.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12500653

Because MGTOW is a thing now

>> No.12500677

Tinder

>> No.12500687

what the hell is PUA literally never heard of it

>> No.12500710

lack of philosophy in high school makes students who would like philosophy flock to gurus like jordan peterson in seek of truth

>> No.12500879

>>12499766
No wonder crypto is so popular, the generation of truly working hard for something is dead, AND mocked. Left with folks like you ridiculing attempts at growth

>> No.12500911

>>12500879

>slaying pussy from drunken thots is an attempt at growth

like getting fat is getting growth, same thing

>> No.12501123

>>12500687
you go up to women in random places and ask them if they want to have sex with you. you do it for as many times as it takes for it to work. when one of them sleeps with you, you win PUA

>> No.12501146

>>12500911

You forgot the part where you pay a marketing dude who calls himself a guru $5k usd to do it

>> No.12501713

>>12497896
>he thinks blackpill = nihilism

let me tell you what true nihilism is

It is when every last man throws away his potential for reaching his highest possibilities by giving into his base pleasures and becoming a slave to consumerism, lust, and modern entertainment (4chan included).

What happens to the progression of society when everyone consumes and no one produces? That is true nihilism boy

>> No.12501748

>>12501123
that is literally what niggers do
>>12501713
fuck your society, it is over

>> No.12501761

>>12492829

absolutely rofling

>> No.12501769

>>12501713
Why do people think society needs to progress? Towards what, exactly?

>> No.12501771

>>12492900

Nice digits, and I wouldn't even want to fuck the girls who would consider sleeping with him. You have to be pretty far from the baseline to be attracted to that.

> yikes

>> No.12501795
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12501795

>>12490689
Teach me sempai

>> No.12501836

"The Game" was published 5 years before Instagram was created and 7 years before Tinder.

One app has made the PUA trick of "DHV" or demonstrating higher value extremely more difficult vs the aughts when you could just wear a nice watch and bullshit people into thinking you're a big deal. Now people will immediately go to your instagram to make sure you have 10k+ followers and have photo proof of doing interesting things in interesting places with beautiful people. This can be "gamed" as well but it's exceedingly more difficult.

The other app has put a hard yes/no decision based entirely on appearance in front of every potential interaction. This has basically neutralized the main lynchpin of PUA tactics, the in-person approach, which in many cases was designed to overcome the initial appearance judgement via a combination of psychological tricks.

>> No.12501886

>>12490449

Because picking up girls in person face to face is now 30 year old boomer culture. Now most men just use tinder, or are pathetic incels.

>> No.12501984

>>12493452
>>12498852
>>12498874
>>12499222
>not surrounding yourself with a coterie of manlets at all times so you appear to be the indisputable alpha

Never gonna make it

>> No.12501987

>>12493777
you don't have to go against "nature". bible was way smarter in distinguishing this between "flesh" and "spirit". you can't actually go against your "nature", if you can go against your "nature" then it's in your "nature" to be able to go against your "nature". which makes me believe that the formulation of man as being flesh and spirit is much more accurate.

>> No.12502831

PUA led to a lot of understandings about women, but the main lesson, the only thing you need to know is that they covet being the #1 attention consumer in a male's life. The moment they are #2, they are biologically drawn to anything and everything to try to be #1. This means if you have a passionate interest in something that truly is above women, for some reason, women will be drawn to you. If you forfeit your passion for them, they will lose attraction to you. Therefore all women seek to destroy men and in the process liberate themselves from the irresistible urge to fuck those men, but until they do that they drawn to those men.

>> No.12502958

>>12501886
Is this really true?

>> No.12503561

>>12490449
because it's a fucking meme

>> No.12503566

>>12502958
of course not

>> No.12503580

>>12501836
Good post. PUA was always bullshit and these apps have both made bullshitting harder and given women infinite choices.

All of this doesn't end well.

>> No.12503671

>>12501836
>>12503580

Given these, how long will it take till most men just start exclusively fucking prostitutes? Or will it never happen.

Either most men can remain bitter incels their whole lives. They can bitch online about how the want a wife and kids while never achieving either unless they accept the fact they will need to marry a post wall roasty who is ready to settle down and do just that. Most wont because they can' get over the pure virgin fantasy.

Then the others, less hung about about things like that, and who just wanted to fuck but aren't gigachads or willing to put the time in to court and maintain insta's and all this other shit. Eventually they will just forgo all non transactional relationships all together, literally put 0 effort into them, put all effort into a career and fuck whores on the daily. Have fun with whores until they are well experienced successful late 30's/early 40's guys that can manage to pull wifable material later in life.

>> No.12503781

>>12503671
On a macro level, this ends either in a major bloodbath or in suitable roastie replacement technologies (read: sexbots & artificial wombs). Whichever comes first. I see no other possible outcome.

>> No.12503841

>>12503781
Legalizing prostitution at this point seems like a no-brainer sort of thing. The institution of marriage is basically treated as a joke and most younger people don't want children. I guess escorts are quasi-legal but there's too much risk involved for the average guy to consider it a practical alternative.

>> No.12503863

>>12493523
100% based

>> No.12503892

>>12503841
It might be a no-brainer, but legal prostitution would still just be a bandaid on a gaping wound. Young people may or may not want children but they eventually turn into 30 years old boomers like the rest of us and suddenly they realize how vitally important having a family is.

>> No.12503912

>>12503892
Im 30 years old and I dont want a fucking family. What's not to get? I would want a family if I was a Chad during HS and got out of my system the necessity of fucking tons of hotties that any high T male has, I didn't so now I must fuck a ton of escorts.

When BTC is $1,000,000 a coin in 10 years we can talk about a family. No fucking way im bringing more wagecucks into planet hell. They must be spoiled and have a blast of a life.

>> No.12503994

>>12503841
>>12503892

Prostitution is already legal in most nations in the world, including my own country. I was just asking when the use of prostitutes will go fully mainstream. I guess Burgers finally catching up and legalizing them would help for that as well.

>Marriage

Sounds gay, at all points of life. I dunno maybe when I'm 70.

>> No.12504016

>>12503912
I can sympathize anon, I've had a decent sex life but I will also need to go through a platoon of 10/10 model tier escorts sooner or later, but the desire for family formation is still there.

Will have to do both. If it means doing them both at the same time, so be it.

>> No.12504024

>>12503841

Legalized prostitution won’t happen because feminists and religious cuckservstives are both united against it as something that threatens their agendas.

>> No.12504025

>>12503994
Family means kids, fuck marriage.

>> No.12504030

>>12503912

BASED HOLY FUCK BASED! BASED AND BASEDPILLED I like the way you think. Literally 100% right on every issue you spoke off.

I dunno why all the incels on here think they will just be able to suddenly settle down and get married after finally tasting a pussy. A male has to get it out of his system and this takes years. I am gonna fucking slay so much whore pussy until I never want to see a naked girl again before I even consider the idea of getting married. I also do not want to bring poverty kids into existence to be raised by a young father such as myself.

I think one of the worst feelings imaginable, must be the feeling of a newly wed husband, who just tasted pussy on his dick for the very first time as he lost his virginity to his wife, and realized he's stuck with that forever now. He had all this years to fuck around slaying hoes but he never did because he had no idea how much he would enjoy """meaningless""" sex with roasties, or he had not the ability. Now he finally gets a taste on his deathbed of marriage. What a nightmare.

>> No.12504064

I was lucky. My wife and I both feel the same way about kids; like them fine and all but don't want any ourselves.

>> No.12504116

>>12504025

I used to want kids when I was in high school with few life goals. But even since this website got flooded with baby crazed retards due to the Trump/Alt Right surge, I've been really put off having children. They have totally politicized the act.

Besides, at this point I'd rather focus on myself and my career and my life goals. I'm rather creative and find great inner joys from creative endevours. Whenever I read biographies of other famous creatives, they all had disasterous home lives where they ignored their wives and were competely absent fathers to their children because they were obsessed with their work. I can see that being me 100%. So my solution is just don't have them in the first place. I honestly don't really want them. The number of times each year I have thoughts thinking wouldn't it be nice to have a family and some kids, I could count on 1 hand. Meanwhile I am thinking every day about cool projects I'd like to work on. I'm not a financial type but I got myself to learn investing and crypto tech stuff just to be able to finance creative endeavors.

>> No.12504129

>>12503912
>When BTC is $1,000,000 a coin in 10 years we can talk about a family. No fucking way im bringing more wagecucks into planet hell. They must be spoiled and have a blast of a life.
agreed. I don't feel like I need kids to be happy with my life, but if I had a proper estate I'd absolutely do it and teach them the ways of the /biz/raelites from birth. but I'm not fucking falling for the "middle class family" scam and breeding more serfs for the kikes.

>> No.12504156

>>12498884
>Besides if pajeet paid what like 5k for a bootcamp couldnt the rsd crew just pay an escort like 300 bucks to be in the club for the night and be told to be friendly to the pajeet that talks to her? Profit margin >90%
This. Finally something relevant to /biz/

>> No.12504170

>>12499725
>people follow it for two weeks then fall back into hardwired behavior patterns
I used to do this with the gym before I read the sticky on /fit/

>> No.12504218

>>12501769
Wish more people thought like us. Unfortunately, everyone's in a rush and too busy to actually contemplate why they're doing what they're doing.

>> No.12504289

>>12501769
>>12504218

I both agree and disagree with him. I don't think society NEEDS to progess. We are already at a comfy level that stagnating now wouldn't kill us. We could afford to indulge and be wasteful.

But then there is another part of me that wants to see what's ahead. That wants to go have a mars colony and do asteroid mining, invent robotic limbs, and proper AI's and have earth resemble true cyberpunk.

But eitherway, at the end of the day, eventually the progress will become a victim of diminishing returns and we will have to settle for not progressing sometimes. Because when you try to force progression to early you tend to just go in circles.

>> No.12504292

>>12501769

it's not about progress, anyone has to manufacture all this bullshit we have, it's ridiculous how much mass manufacturing we use

>> No.12504305

>>12504289
>that stagnating now wouldn't kill us
For whatever reason, stagnation always comes hand-in-hand with decline.

>> No.12504426

>>12504016
Yup but I wish I could bareback them condoms are kinda lame desu i've never fucked without a condom due escorts forcing u to use escorts

I still want to be RICH to have kids, I dont want them to wageslave ever.

>> No.12504437

>>12504030
Well dont get too excited, if you aren't good looking u aren't slaying shit so better make a lot of money for escorts which is the second best thing if notachad.

>> No.12504452

>>12504426
Also in a way I really want to have kids because it sucks that only niggers and arabs are procreating. But my rational mind thinks about it and tells me that I must at least be rich so they aren't stuck in the rat race like me.

>> No.12504474

>>12504452
>Also in a way I really want to have kids because it sucks that only niggers and arabs are procreating.
Why would you give a fuck? There's no race wars when you're dead.

>> No.12504482

>>12504452
Rat race for them wouldn't start for another 20-25 years if they were born today. We will be made from BTC and crypto long before then.

>> No.12504503

>>12496774
He's still blogging daily.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

These days he's more about Trump and the culture war, but every now and then he'll make a post about romance. If his blog could be made into a book, I don't doubt it would be the greatest book on love and dating ever written. I've been trying to write a scraper to scrape his posts and make a PDF of them but I'm not very good with python. Anyway, he's the quickest primer on his work I can find.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/one-year-anniversary-greatest-hits/

>> No.12504525
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12504525

>>12504503
Oh yeah, and here's the best on his whole site.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

>> No.12504600

>>12496298
My nigga
I used to read his blog religiously and every single comment from the audience, for around two years. Helped me understand the true biomechanical nature of humans.
Such a shame he went down the politics path. Stopped reading him after that.

>> No.12504659

What do you guys recommend as a no bullshit method that works. is RSD good?

>> No.12504660

>>12504600
Dude must be around 40 by now. There's only so many years of pussy slaying in a man before he starts asking what is it all worth. If my country goes to hell, even while I got laid, what did I gain from it?

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/the-parable-of-the-tiger-and-the-strawberry/

>> No.12504771

>>12504525

Fuck this is good stuff. I see people making mistakes he mentions here all the time. Even on this website.

>> No.12504954

>>12504659
RSD is unironically legit. Tyler from 2010-2013 was so good, some of his new stuff is good but he seems to be taking more of an overall self improvement/spiritual leaning now.
Pirate rsdjulien's tengame on tpb, that is a good intro and honestly you don't need to watch much of their shit, just get the concepts and go out heaps. I probably would have never lost my virginity if it wasn't for rsd lmao
>>12504525
Forgot about this guy. I always wanted to save some of his best works too, might try saving some and compiling them.

>> No.12504989

>>12504064
If you are both white I strongly encourage you and your wife to reconsider.

>> No.12504996

>>12504116
This is the most NPC shit I've read on here in a while. Do you really make life choices based on the sentiment of autistic NEETs on an Ethiopian goat herding forum?

>> No.12505077

>>12496298
Yes, every day hitting F5 hoping for a new post. Learned everything I needed to know from a few of his writings.
>>12504600
Completely agree. I'm conservative myself (who isn't) but that's not what I was reading his blog for. Fuck politics.

>> No.12505086

>>12504989
>having children for demographic reasons

We really don't need any more broken homes in this country

>> No.12505104

>>12504996

No /pol/ack shithead, I don't. It's just one of the things contributing to me not wanting a family. I really, really hate all you /pol/shills continuously shilling at men like me telling me to get married and have kids. You literally just did it again here >>12504989 because muh white race. This type of repetitive begging is also partially the reason I quit going to /pol/. What the fuck was I gaining every day going to a board and being told to have kids and get a wife when I wanted neither. You fucks literally can't shut the fuck up about this stupid family fetish of yours.

You are the NPC. The main character is the one who discovers something new, goes on an adventure, who grows and has a life so drastically different from others it's worth remembering. Getting married and having a few kids is the literal definition of normal. An actual NPC in a video game is less of an NPC than you people who get married and have kids and work a 9-5 job and pay off a mortgage. I want to do more interesting things in my life than the boring NPC lifestyle described above that you are falling into.

>> No.12505133

>>12505104
You either want to have children or you don't. If you don't, that's fine, just own it. I think what he's saying is that if you're specifically NOT having children because of the anonymous opinion of people on 4chan then you should reevaluate your life.

>> No.12505198

>>12505133

I don't want children. I should have clarified more, rereading my original post it does make it seem like /pol/ is the main reason. But what I meant was, I made the decision that I didn't want children, just as a purely personal reason. I had no hate. I just realized it would interfere with my lifestyle choice and career goals. But then after I made that decision, suddenly /pol/ started really shilling the wife and kids meme hard, and it started pissing me off to be constantly barraged with the idea, and it actually made me strongly hate the idea of having kids. Like it's quite possible that as a early 20's guy, my decision to not have kids was just because I was young, and when I hit 30 I will reconsider. But /pol/s pushing of the wife and kids meme, and specifically politicizing the act has made me actively hate the idea so much that I really thought long and hard about it and decided I did not want kids ever, and I will now break up with a woman even if she wants kids down the line at this point. Even when I reach 40-50 I do not want kids. I never hated the idea of a wife and kids until /pol/ started forcing it.

>> No.12505238

>>12504954
I speculate the PUA community fell apart because the techniques they taught stopped being effective roundabout '16 or so

the 'game' is getting tougher as girls get fatter, have higher monetary requirements, are beginning to demand men be their slaves, accuse people of rape, etc.

I think rsd probably stopped being effective a long time ago. not that their advice isn't an imrpovement for most guys. but I think it stopped delivering drastically better results. I only live in the country half the year and from my pov this place is fucking dismal

>> No.12505653

>>12499237

Low IQ post

>> No.12506618

>>12490449
It's not dead, there are millions of YT channels promoting amateur infield crap. Same with prank channels, they're often correlated.

Pick up, spitting game, stuff is all mainstream now. The pre-MGTOW crowd goes to the self-improvement section of the internet. True G's disassociate from all of the bullshit and fake alphas on twitter. I fucking lmao and block 20 year old know it alls who appear on my feed talking about women. Like dude you're still a kid at 20, you know absolutely nothing.

Roosh has the only genuine relationship advice, (((they))) tried to get him banned everywhere from selling his book.

>> No.12506644

>>12505653
No u

>> No.12506653

>>12490449
>Why did the PUA industry collapse in recent years?
Why is this sentence so 'clickbaity'? what specific strategy it uses?

>> No.12506724

>>12506653
Two main strategies you can employ for clickbait - both involve withholding information. This thread asks a question about a revealed topic - PUA, so you are curious about the answer and why you didn't already know about this collapse. The other way you might choose to phrase it is "this industry collapsed in the last year and you didn't even notice" or similar, i.e. topic unnamed but sounds exciting - of course this only works in a video or biz shitcoin thread.
Basically make your audience want to guess what the video talks about and see if they are right so they can get the dopamine fix from learning something new. Most of the content youtubers are trying to sell is crap - think "$5 pizza vs $500 pizza?????". It is your job as a content creator to trick people into wanting "information" or "knowledge" that in reality is useless.

>> No.12506757
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12506757

>>12506724
Thank you for the thorough answer.

>> No.12507678

>>12490449
Sex Dolls. VR.

>> No.12507830

>>12504474
Just coz. Also I want to fuck girls bareback and cum inside at least for a while. If I was hyper rich I would afford that and then if I accidentally have kids at least they would be well off.

>> No.12507966

>>12499766
>This is why people hate PUA. Every criticism is met with "lol just do it more bro".

But that is kind of the right answer. Numbers game.

I did not succeed in first 200 approaches, but then at 201 I got laid, so...it worked I guess?

>> No.12508272

>>12507966

Can you really call a <0.5% success rate as having worked though?

No no you can't that's time,effort and dignity you're never getting back.

Would have been much better to buck up and fuck some whores on the regular.

>> No.12508462

>>12492405

he was also an outsider who cashed in first on the internet pua scene. he never was into it nor believed in it just jumped in wrote a book and jumped out. he's the MSM approved pua version. you are right that most of it is BS irl

>> No.12508645

>>12508272
>Can you really call a <0.5% success rate as having worked though?

Why can I not?

Goal was to get laid and get a girlfriend.

I achieved all of these goals.

So how is it not a success? It is 0 or 1.

Who is the god that determines if it is a success or not? Elaborate

>> No.12508647
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12508647

>>12503841
Outlawing prostitution is just another way to keep stupid men trying. It's either you're an 8/10 or higher and get a girl. Or be a normie (God forbid you're under 5'8) and work your ass off in a career and spending the rest of your time working out and watching nutrition carefully. While reading the last fashion trends trying to look the best you can. Hoping some used up girl that Chad pumped and dumped will give you a little bit of attention.

Or

Consider getting a disease ridden drug infested prostitute who could rob you or be a cop. Yah, that's the thing. This totally harmless activity is made more dangerous by the fact that it's illegal. Because it keeps the girls under pimps and less likely to seek medical care.

So you can spend a couple hundred dollars for an hour of coping. Risking losing everything with a jail sentence. Ruined reputation etc.

All because society knows it's best to keep it illegal so men don't check the fuck out.

If it was legal in all 50 states, men would stop pursuing women. We would invest in our own needs. The economy of bullshit would lose money once we aren't wasting our time chasing girls who don't give a fuck about us.

Only then would Chads and men both be happy. Only then would women be unhappy.

That's why it will never be allowed.

>> No.12508681

>>12508647
>If it was legal in all 50 states, men would stop pursuing women
do you think men in countries where it's legal don't pursue women? lol.

>> No.12508754

>>12508645

Well the gf part(which may or may not work out for you,only time will tell) i won't despite but you could have gotten laid with a fraction of the time and effort involved and with a much more beautiful woman too probably.

Feelings and emotions aside(and taking the gf thing out of the equation since you were obviously looking for something more important) i don't think going through the arduous process and the hundreds of rejections is the logically sound decision here(unless you're insecure enough to need validation from a roastie and what not).

>> No.12508761

>>12508754
dispute* not despite

>> No.12508767

>>12508754
>>12508761
have you ever had sex with a woman you didnt have to pay for?
its heads and shoulders above what any prostitute can give you man. prozzies are like wanking devices might as well just jerk off.

>> No.12508778

>>12505198
>>12505198
>/pol/ supports having a wife and kids
>WELL FUCK YOU I WON'T BREED AT ALL TAKE THAT /POL/
>I'M UNIQUE IM NOT AN NPC
Congratulations genetic dead end. This is how natural selection works. Your weak genes won't bother anyone so just enjoy your life. You are unique because you decided to be a hedonist which nobody has ever done in the history of the world.

>> No.12508851

>>12508754
Missing the point.

1. Check out "good looking loser". The process makes you more confident, social grounded and naturally attractive. You won't have to do anything eventually and the advice "just be yourself" comes full circle.

2. If you're looking for validation you won't get
laid.

3. Pick up is really a blast.

There's a future version of you who can smoothly open and pick up a girl in a book store or meet someone at a party and take them home. There's another version who masturbates to anime or fucks whores and stops growing. It's the pinnacle of self improvement (bar seeking God).

>> No.12508855

>>12508754
If I had listened to you and had not done maniacal cold approach on random women on the street and in malls, campuses, then I would be:
A depressed lonely virgin probably dead from suicide or homicide+suicide at age of 25.

The fact that I pushed my self out of my comfort zone and approached hundreds netted me first real human experience of sex, intimacy, love, relationship and all things that stem from it.

After 5 years of this relationship I cut it off and found another woman I had sex with (this time it took only about 60 approaches I think, because I had improved looks and game).

Now, I had experience of what it was like to have casual sex.

Now, after 40 or so more approaches I got another girlfriend and been with her for a year so far. This time I enjoy the relationship even more than last one, because I actually find her HOT. Now I have experience of having passionate sex, true intimacy, loving embrace, etc...all of those things I would have never experienced as an incel who was afraid of losing "face" or "reputation" or being rejected.

The other route for me was loneliness and suicide.

If someone ever dares to start shit on me for approaching women I will gut him real fast there and then, that is the reason I carry a knife at all times. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Normgroid society is shit and I don't give a fuck if they don't like my approaches.

The more of a brazen douchebag I become the more people are intrigued by me and I gained more friends over these last years than I had when living in solitude and being afraid to talk to people.

But the fact that I'm 6'2'' & ripped and fashionmaxxed helps a lot. People just see me as an exotic oddity and once in a blue moon some girl fucks me or falls for me.

WORTH IT

>> No.12508877

>>12508767

The answer to your question is no.

Well i won't argue that the prostitute experience is flawless or anything but frankly the only 2 things that turn me off it are:

1)Monetary investment.I live in a poorfag country so any visits are a sizeable chunk out of my savings havent been to one in months.
2)You're on a timer and you're literally thrown out the second you cum.Literally having to edge yourself for way too long just to enjoy yourself longer seems counterintuitive(then again you'd have to do that with a casual roastie as well or be called a quickshot).
3.Never going bareback(i guess that's the price you have to pay if you have any value for your health and it's not like you'd risk that with a rando roastie either).

If it weren't for the above i'd be perfectly happy with the prostitute experience.

As for the sex part itself idk man i've had lots of experience with both and the pleasure i gained from actually fucking them is worlds apart imo.There's also something cathartic about having your way with 9s and 10s that would never give you the time of day otherwise/would make you dance through hoops you never would, cos fuck doing that.

Also threesomes,first time i did that was so mindblowing everyone owes it to themselves to try it at least once.

Anyways those are my thoughts on the matter you're welcome to chip in if you feel i'm overlooking something too obvious.

>> No.12508958

Binge watching rsd videos helped me to lose my virginity at the ripe age of 23. Cheers rsd lads

>> No.12508967

>>12508851

I think you're severely underestimating the role nature(and nurture) plays in such things.If all my life i have been an asocial/antisocial CS geek that has found it very hard to resonate with women I don't think it's that simple to simply change all that and start cold approaching thots like it's nothing.The only women i was confident talking to without issue were those already taken/I had no interest in.
I'm not too keen on validation in general i think it'd be pretty cucked to hook up with women just for that.
Idk man i've done the bar routine with friends etc and it seems like everyone is too busy being awkward and not initiating anything.I always said my lack of drinking(hate it) was a problem but my friends who also drank (and are more chad than me or at least more social) still pussied out.

>>12508855

I sincerely hope noone took this as advice,it was merely meant to present my point of view not to promote this as a healthy attitude/way of living or anything(i wont argue if it is or not what works for someone may very well not work in the slightest for others).

Rest of your post reads a bit distressing,being a douchebag to impress is fine and all just be careful you don't turn into something revolting while doing that.I think you overestimate the role "love" plays in our lives(though admittedly i have a loving family so im sure that helps keep me sane).Stay safe,fren.

>> No.12509026

>>12493979

I think tinder ruined dating.

I've been a neo-virgin for a few years now after being a chad all my life because banging 6s is gross after an STD scare and every single attractive girl seems to be a turbo slut with 100 other guys giving her attention any given moment.

I don't think finding a good girl who is pretty is even possible in the West anymore unless you go for someone really young or from some shithole conservative country.

>> No.12509042

>>12491924
>approach women non-stop for an hour...Done right, you will experience a state that is very hard to replicate. Everything fucking clicks. Your mind shuts up. People will react around you- like guys jumping out the way to let you through to the bar. Girls will be attracted without "doing" anything. You will also notice physical changes- your pupils dilate significantly

or you can take cocaine

>> No.12509110

>>12508967
>Rest of your post reads a bit distressing,being a douchebag to impress is fine and all just be careful you don't turn into something revolting while doing that.

Well, my life was already shit from depression and mental issues what do I lose from becoming a douchebag Machiavellian sociopathic piece of shit dirtbag? I can only gain infamy points and interest from edgy normie whores. Better to be polarising than to be lukewarm. Better to be hated than to be unknown at all.

But yes, this device might not work for others. You need to be special kind of retarded and reckless to do what I did.

>> No.12509126

>>12509026

nah its global now. any 8+ literally has guys offering them hundreds of dollars just for bikini pictures or even just chatting with them (my ex from a 3rd world shithole, and several of my friends pimped out their 7-8s to scam)

been to 10 countries, doesn't get better. The only honest woman is one that communicates exactly how much money she wants from being with you, unless you date down. Even if they love you, after enough time they find little flaws enough to justify going back to their instincts.

>> No.12509165

>>12508967
Follow the approach anxiety program:
https://www.goodlookingloser.com/anxiety/program

(I have nothing to gain by linking this)

It will work if you apply it consistently and help develop your personality and get you laid.

Everything else is mental masturbation.

>> No.12509398

>>12509165

Even though i love masturbation mental or otherwise(:P),you seem awfully insistent mate so i'll give it a look i've looked at tons of TRP shit over the years.

Thanks for the resource and cheers.

>> No.12509566

>>12491838

Probably some of the best advice in the whole thread

>> No.12509658

>>12504525
Thank you so much anon, reasons like this is truly why I use /biz/ I love wizards giving me shortcuts. Good karma to my kind sir.

>> No.12509799

>>12492674
He lost 527,816 quadrans.

>> No.12509839

>>12508855
>If someone ever dares to start shit on me for approaching women I will gut him real fast there and then, that is the reason I carry a knife at all times.
Jesus have a look at this fedora tipping faggot. You may get laid but you're still an incel beta.

>> No.12510302

>>12509165
why is "getting laid" an end goal that means anything in itself?

>> No.12510621

>>12509839
>Jesus have a look at this fedora tipping faggot. You may get laid but you're still an incel beta.

I might be a fedora tipping faggot to you, but I'm still 6'2'', ripped and getting laid and invited to parties while if I had followed sage advise of 4chan I would be a lone wanker.

>>12510302
Goal of species is to reproduce duh