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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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11897226 No.11897226 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

>there are brainlets that actually fell for this fake meme chart
>there are brainlets that based their whole crypto beliefs solely on the assumption that this chart is real
>crypto brainlets can't even understand a simple concept such as inflation
>most of crypto brainlets are complete economic illiterates
>crypto brainlets that can't even understand basic economic concepts think they will overturn the global economic system

How many /biz/lets fell for it?

>> No.11897231

Given the odor of cope in your post, I'm gonna say you, for starters.

>> No.11897252

The only people that believe that crap are commies, goldbugs, Bernout supporers

>> No.11897293

>>11897252
not really, the "evil jews steal our monies with inflation" is a classic right wing narrative

>> No.11897300

dude I am not going to pay $10 for a big mac

>> No.11897325

>>11897226
>while dollar lost %95 of it's purchasing power average income tripled
So it just equates to mere %85 loss, not much

>> No.11897344

>>11897293
Guess the propaganda machine worked on you. See things as left vs right, choose a side.
Both sides tell their sheep to be against crypto.
Both sides are funded by bankers.

>> No.11897399
File: 90 KB, 878x827, 1542833011310.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11897399

>>11897325
the income is adjusted with inflation you dumbass. Also, thats not even how percentages work

>>11897344
both left and right have the same brainlet conspiracists

left
>dude, its the evil bankers!
right
>dude, its the evil jewish bankers!

>> No.11897406

>>11897293
Thats funny, Ive only ever seen commies and ancap faggots false flag about the jews, maybe open your eyes?

>> No.11897434

>>11897399
Easily controlled and doesn't see the future. What a perfect mark.

>> No.11897438

>>11897226
What ? Nobody EVER said that someone living in 1913 was 20 times richer than 2013 ?? We can read charts fucking retard ?? OF course the fucking income has inflated retard

>> No.11897457

>yes, your currency has been massively depreciated
>BUT, real average incomes are up

smgdh

>> No.11897465

>>11897226
Isn't having a deflationary money supply and wanting to hodl to have it go up in value similar to usury? You aren't doing any work or investment to see your wealth grow, it's all other people's labor/risk.

>> No.11897470

>>11897226
Can you update the botttom chart to show what happens after 2008? because i bet we're back down to somewhere around 35k, and many other countries are higher than that

>> No.11897499

>>11897438
+ Wages are a lot harder to inflate than goods retard, so inflating the dollar make us JUSTED, because while the prices go up, the business owners can pretend nothing happen and not raise the wage until they get a fucking riot, no it fucking helps NO ONE to inflate the currency except the riches

>> No.11897694

>>11897465
brainlets put their money under the mattress and then expect them to grow in value magically without doing anything. The whole purpose of inflation is to make you invest your money instead of hoarding them

>> No.11897716

>>11897226
>average income
>not the median income
k

>>11897344
>See things as left vs right, choose a side.
>Both sides tell their sheep to be against crypto.
>Both sides are funded by bankers.
in the US? of course. because you have a "left" that would be considered "right" everywhere else in the world...

>> No.11897721

>>11897694
what the fuck do you think a bank does with your cash when you deposit it?

>> No.11897736

>>11897721
depositing money in a bank is a form of investment, you are basically buying a bank bond

>> No.11897743
File: 105 KB, 625x838, terror.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11897743

>>11897226
whoever made that image is missing the point.

if you save fiat money under your mattress for 10 years it is losing value simply by inflation.

>> No.11897751

>>11897736
government likes inflation because it is basically a form of coin clipping

>> No.11897758

>>11897743
exactly, and only a dumbass would put his money under a mattress for 10 years. Inflation is a tax on brainlets that can't invest

>> No.11897780

You know that government can just print more money and give it to the poor if it wants to right?
Poor people do not suffer from inflation, anyone who holds paper assets does

>> No.11897795

>>11897758
Invest in... bitcoin?

>> No.11897824

>>11897226
OP really thinks he's smart. What a delusional retard.

The only thing the OP pic is showing is that people today earn 5 times the amount. Cool, but in the meantime prices have gone up 30x

Fucking brainlet

>> No.11897831

>>11897226
>does not know the different types of inflation and one called printing money which is the most inflation
Venezuela and other communist countries are examples. But if you think printing money for (((them))) does not exist, then you are really stupid. Of course they don't say "Ok need some money, thanks". It's way more indirect trought government jobs, government paying companies and similiar. You don't think inflation does not exist brainlet?

>> No.11897844
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11897844

>>11897795
the more people use bitcoin as an investment the more volatile it becomes, the more volatile it becomes the more useless as a currency it becomes. Can you stop the vicious cycle?

>>11897824
>imagine being THIS dumb
the income is adjusted with inflation you dumbass, can you understand this concept brainlet? "adjusted for"?

>> No.11897855

>>11897694
No the point of inflation is so the government doesn’t have to pay down as much debt. Having a deflationary currency would allow people to save money, accumulate capital, and invest into long term projects.

>> No.11897856

>>11897226
Look at this article for brainlets like you:

https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2015/01/02/a-glimpse-at-your-expenses-100-years-ago

1 lbs of stake would have cost you 24 cents. How much does that cost you today? Your raised average income couldn't keep up

>> No.11897891

>>11897844
>the income is adjusted with inflation

That's what they tell you. it's not adjusted. If income was actually adjusted, then 1 pound of steak would cost you the same % of your income as it did in 1915. It doesn't. That's the end of it.

>> No.11897899

>>11897856
OP is a fucking idiot. Wasting your time based on responses he’s already given.

>> No.11897911

>>11897855
If everyone tries to save money, economy crumbles

>> No.11897919
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11897919

>>11897891
>If income was actually adjusted, then 1 pound of steak would cost you the same % of your income as it did in 1915. It doesn't.

so what are the numbers? can you provide them?

>>11897899
t.brainlet

>> No.11898032

>>11897226
why does it matter?

the point is, if your great grandpa put away some fiat money 100 years ago, and you received it today, it's only worth 5% of what it was worth in his time

if your great grampa put away bitcoins...

>> No.11898044

>>11897919
OP, you're making a fool of yourself. You can post all the dumb pictures you want. You can also keep trying to convince yourself that you're smart.

Your numbers are wrong. You probably made this thread because you're insecure and aren't able to figure this thing out on your own.

If you weren't such a balloon headed dumbass you would notice the following thing: Inflation is AT LEAST 2% a year (and it's actually higher). If you want the average income to keep up with that exponential growth, everyone would need to, on average, get an income raise of the same percentage. If you weren't a fucking NEET you'd know that 95% of people don't earn 2% more per year. And they don't get 20% more every 10 years (which is lower than compounded 2% a year).

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, YOUR BS IS NOT INFLATION ADJUSTED.

Inflation runs, people don't earn as much more to compensate that.

>> No.11898110

>>11898044
>calls my sources fake
>doesn't provide any proof
>doesn't provide any sources

not even gonna bother to read any more of your brainlet replies

>>11898032
if my grandpa put his money under the mattress for 100 years he would be a dumbass and deserve to lose his money. He only had to put them in the boomer stock market and they would worth more than 20x today

>> No.11898111

>>11897226
In 1913 you could buy 1.5 tons of Gold for 1 Million USD.

Today you can buy 50 pounds of Gold for 1 Million USD.

Explain away how inflation isn't killing the value of a dollar and unbacked currencies don't lead to this.

>> No.11898126

>>11898111
nobody cares about the price of a shiny rock. Inflation counts only staple products that people actually use

>> No.11898137

>>11898126
>Nobody cares about gold
Thanks for playing now nobody is going to listen to you.

>> No.11898153
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11898153

>>11898137
>now nobody is going to listen to you
you mean no boomer is going to listen to me

>> No.11898159

>>11897226
Inflation is necessary for a currency if you want it to actually work. If it's deflationary, people will hoard their savings in it, and you will get boom bust speculation cycles. Better to have a little inflation in order to keep the value of the currency stable.

>> No.11898174

so many expert economists ITT...
you people are so fucking retarded.

>>11898032
>>11898111
the point is obvious: inflation is caused naturally by rising prices. it's not the govt that imposes inflation, it's the market. and this inflation causes money to lose ABSOLUTE value (in terms of monetary units) but not necessarily RELATIVE value. how much did it cost to have 1M dollar in 1913? how much does it cost today? how much can you buy today with a million dollars, relative to minimum, median and average wages, compared to 1913?

>> No.11898179

>>11898153
>What is the Gold reserve
>What countries have been buying large amounts of Gold
You got cornered too early and now you must try to use rhetoric. You might get lucky next thread and someone won't call you out so early about your obvious bullshit.

>> No.11898184

>>11898179
>What countries have been buying large amounts of Gold
shitholes like India and Russia?

>> No.11898214

>>11898184
Literally every country is buying Gold some more than others including China and Russia. You have an agenda I get it. But you are far too stupid to actually pull it off. Have them send someone smarter when they want to try this particular racket.

>> No.11898224
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11898224

>>11898214
>its a consshpirracy!!
and now we return to the classic brainlet responses

>> No.11898244

>Bank guy give us more money when he print more money! No way money not worth anything!
You are actually meant to be prayed upon.

>> No.11898299

>>11897293
>>11897252
you are both right. commies and right wing socialist fall for that, but its all about socialist propaganda from engles and marx, same bull crap blaming the 3rd party for all your personal misery.

people who invested smarter 1920 are richer 50 years later, same goes for people now and the next big crisis + boom.

stupid people stay poor

>> No.11898356
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11898356

>>11897891
>If income was actually adjusted, then 1 pound of steak would cost you the same % of your income as it did in 1915.
better yet, you could afford to live in the same size living space

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but I think the currency debasement is an often overlooked factor in house price inflation (relative to wages - i.e. IN REAL TERMS i.e. WE ARE POORER OP)

>> No.11898383

>>11898356
by the way, these figures are based on GROSS salary. So, in other words, the average cuck in London is handing over more than half of his take home pay in rent.

I definitely feel richer than previous generations, OP. Thank you central banks! Based inflation!

>> No.11898455

>>11898383
Nobody said high inflation is good dummy. Central banks in the west strive to have inflation around 2-4% as the optimal rate. Both high inflation and very low and negative inflation can be just as damaging

>> No.11898562
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11898562

>>11898455
Do you really think paper money is a desirable system - especially given our short parliamentary terms? In the UK, it's 5 years, in the US it's 4. What politician could resist promising more govt. spending (funded by issuing debt), knowing they will never have to deal with the consequences because they can just kick the can down the road and pass the problem on to the next sucker? Not to mention the conflicts of interest with private banks being able to multiply these loans 10x via fractional reserve.

The theory behind paper money makes sense: govt can create new currency to stimulate the economy during slow times and then pay it back during boom times. In reality, it hasn't worked out like that. Boom and bust is more intense since the Federal Reserve Act and government debt to GDP just keeps getting bigger. The conspiracy theorists are right about hyperinflation, even if they are often wrong about timescales.

>Both high inflation and very low and negative inflation can be just as damaging
Yes, but gold, bitcoin etc. is inflationary. It might not be perfect but it's better than hyperinflation and is at least sustainable in the long run.

>> No.11898588

>>11897844
>the more people use bitcoin as an investment the more volatile it becomes
nobody is really this fucking stupid ...right?

>> No.11898595
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11898595

>>11898562
in anticipation of your reply: yes, Bank of England and Federal Reserve are 'independent'. But it always makes sense for central banks to buy government debt because they can't go overdrawn. FED is privately owned and there are huge conflicts of interest with private banks to keep inflating the money supply because both the private and central banks can't lose from creating debt.

>> No.11898613

>>11898562
thats why most central banks in the west are private so the political sphere can't directly influence them

commodity money might be less prone for abuse but it will doom you to lower potential for growth

>>11898588
why don't you brainlet explain us how is that wrong then?

>> No.11898664

>>11898595
you just have to choose the lesser evil. Having no central bank effectively makes the government completely useless against a crisis, having direct government control of the central bank will lead to more bad spending and having private central bank will lead to more secrecy and conspiracies

>> No.11898751
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11898751

>>11898664
or we could just have something independent: e.g. gold or bitcoin or maybe even a money supply linked to global GDP figures

>>11898664
>you just have to choose the lesser evil.
you're fucked either way. You either have political influence leading to unsustainable debt or you have private conflicts of interest skimming money off the top of society eventually leading to unsustainable debt.

>>11898664
>Having no central bank effectively makes the government completely useless against a crisis
government is completely useless against a crisis anyway. After 2008 we had QE1, QE2 and QE3. I forget the exact figure but the total amount borrowed since 2008 is well into the trillions - and we STILL have stagnant wages and slow growth

>> No.11898792

>>11898174
> inflation is caused naturally by rising prices. it's not the govt that imposes inflation, it's the market

holy jesus fucking christ ur fucking retarded

prices rise because the government prints new money. if the government didn't release hundreds of millions of dollars every day out of thin air, the prices wouldn't be rising constantly

>> No.11898809
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11898809

>>11898664
>you just have to choose the lesser evil.
This is literally why decentralization is so important. It's not a choice between two bad options. There are no conflicts of interest - public or private.

We're basically in agreement: neither the public sector nor the private sector can be trusted to control the money supply, hence why smart people love gold and bitcoin

>> No.11898812

>>11898613
>why don't you brainlet explain us how is that wrong then?

One word. Liquidity

Now chap chap, brainlet. Back to your cagie.

>> No.11898819

>>11898751
well, do you know what the economic situation today would be if the government just let the banks start a domino of bankruptcies in 2008? you can say it would be better than today but a lot of people would disagree

>> No.11898839
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11898839

>>11897226
Oh yes, OP, the rich did get even more rich. Not you though, you just got fucked

>> No.11898848

>>11898110
>if my grandpa put his money under the mattress for 100 years he would be a dumbass and deserve to lose his money. He only had to put them in the boomer stock market and they would worth more than 20x today
>if my grandpa put his money under the mattress for 100 years

So he put his gold and silver under the mattress since USD is not money but currency.

Now, how JUSTED would he be?

>> No.11898851

>>11898819
maybe it wouldn't be better today, just yet (tho it likely would)
but it'd 100% be better in a decade or two if those responsible for the financial crisis, taking risks with money they didn't own so they can get the bonuses if they succeed and get bailed out if not, were held responsible for their actions for once and ppl in their position would have any serious incentive to avoid it happening again

>> No.11898852

>>11898812
liquidity means nothing if its speculative

>> No.11898868

>>11898153
>you mean no boomer is going to listen to me

Are you accusing young people of being stupid to the point of being retard?

>> No.11898887

>>11898819
>>11898851
so yeah, short term it'd have obviously caused chaos, but long term it'd have lead to a FAR healthier economy

it's no accident bitcoin was born after that. it'll bring the financial revolution and nobody will be able to stop it.

might need a global burn first tho, like WW3, or a global govt, or whatever

after that, ppl will realize how valuable it is to have something the governemnt can't take away or erase

>> No.11898898

>>11898852
Liquidity means if shit hits the fan you'll be free to move out of the shits way. No liquidity means when shit hits the fan you're covered in shit

>> No.11898909

>>11898851
thats why there should be a differentiation between institutions and the people that run them, you can jail the people responsible and still save the institutions they ran

>> No.11898920

>>11898613
>thats why most central banks in the west are private so the political sphere can't directly influence them

Nah, the real reason is that thanks to this the bank basically owns the country because it owns it's money supply. A nation is sovereign only if it owns it's money. Currency is not money btw.

>> No.11898934

>>11898852

It's not speculative if people are using it, like what you were just assuming in the post i quoted. Are you dense?

>> No.11898991

>>11898934
exactly brainlet, nobody uses bitcoin to buy stuff, its 99% speculative. Compare this with forex that is only around 10% speculative, when you reach those numbers you might have a viable currency. You are stuck in a vicious cycle though, the more popular btc becomes the more people will speculate on it and the more they speculate they less usefull as a currency it will be. Bitcoin was actually accepted in stores in far more places before it mooned and went mainstream

>> No.11899042

>>11898153
You do know gold is used in electronics and high-end lab tech right?

>> No.11899076

>>11899042
which makes its use as a currency even worse because industrial demand will negatively affect money supply and vice versa

>> No.11899088
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11899088

>>11897694
You are absolutely retarded and deliberatey make it look like everyone can be a winner in this game.
The government doesn't care if 1 person beats inflation because for every winner there is a loser (usually multiple losers per winner since it's the rich that can hege against inflation more successfully than the middle class and the poor), since someone has to be holding FIAT at any given moment in time, even if it's the bank in form of saving accounts, they give you fuck all 1% interest while inflation is closer to 6% lol

Tell me more how this is a healthy and fair system you FIAT maximalist. That's like choosing a group separating them on manlets and lankets and forcing to play basketball saying that "rules are the same for everyone, stop complaining"

>muh investment
>muh boosting the economy

nothing more than a global forced pnd scheme in which the middle class and the poor are getting parted with their hard earned shekels.

>> No.11899098

>21 posts by op
imagine SEETHING this fucking hard

>> No.11899142

>>11898991
>exactly brainlet, nobody uses bitcoin to buy stuff, its 99% speculative

You could apply this to stock market as well. Does it get more volatile the more people buy stocks?

>> No.11899160

>>11899142
he's a retard who probably rage sold or rage shorted crypto and tries to desperately convince himself he did the right thing coming up with the most stupid arguments ever seen

>> No.11899163
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11899163

>>11899088
now you are just saying fake numbers. inflation is less than 3% and government bonds can be more than 3%+

>>11899098
spotted the brainlet

>> No.11899181

>>11899163
>inflation is less than 3%
did you read it in Good Goy Journal?
>and government bonds can be more than 3%+
yea 3% after taxes? show me a source

>> No.11899185

>>11899163
cope

>> No.11899192

>>11899160
how are you coping with your 98% lose of value kiddo? must feel hard
>>11899142
did you even read what I said? stocks aren't used for currency so their volatility doesn't isn't as harmful

>> No.11899203

>>11899181
>the data that I don't like are fake!
why should I show a source if you are just gonna call that fake too?

>> No.11899216

>>11899192
>how are you coping with your 98% lose of value kiddo? must feel hard
I've never been in the red and cashed out my initial months ago, nothing you say can phase me

>>11899203
COPE
3%+ bonds after taxes?
I'm sorry to remind you it's 2018 not 1960 or whatever timeline you ive in

>> No.11899217

>>11898792
>holy jesus fucking christ ur fucking retarded
yeah, I'm sure supply and demand are controlled by the gubmint-owned prices, and that, once the price of a given product rises, producers totally have motivation to go back to original prices...

>prices rise because the government prints new money. if the government didn't release hundreds of millions of dollars every day out of thin air, the prices wouldn't be rising constantly
is this the economic theory americans are taught? or did you learn this stuff from reading forum posts in internet?

>> No.11899236
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11899236

>>11899216
>I cashed out months ago
so you don't actually believe in btc and just jumped ship for quick profit from the pnd? so you aren't any different from me? good to know we agree buddy!

>> No.11899260

>>11899217
>gubmint-owned prices
*gubmint-owned printers

>> No.11899285

>>11899217
it's not the prices rising that are the problem, it's the value of the currency being deliberately lowered by printing more. People aren't allowed to save money long term nowadays, if you are a young person and want to buy a house you have to either take a loan for 30 years or rent forever, because the government makes sure your money will be worthless in 30 years

>>11899236
no Mr 3%+bond retard, me cashing out profits from useless shitcoins run on eth have nothing to do with my belief in bitcoin, which still has nothing to do with btc cycles that have happened in the past many times

>> No.11899361
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11899361

>>11899285
so you still believe in btc mr brainlet? btc lost more of its value in a single year than dollar has in 100 years and still nobody uses it as a currency

>> No.11899388

>>11899361
btc has gained more value in a single decade than government bonds have in five decades

>> No.11899412

>>11899361
because your little brain cannot comprehend something like a new currency emerging, most people buying it don't understand it either that's why we have those cycles, but which each one there is more and more of those who understand it left, more people who actually see value in a fixed supply, non seizable, decentralized, immutable store of value/currency
if your attention span doesn't reach out any farther than 1 year then keep holding onto your FIAT bags I guess, enjoy the inflation, mr noseberg prints more for your own good, continue your (((contribution to the economy))) goyim

>> No.11899416
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11899416

>>11899388
people win a lot of money in casinos too, that doesn't make casinos a good investment

>> No.11899428

>>11899285
>>11899285
>it's not the prices rising that are the problem
from my dictionary:
>inflation
>in·fla·tion
>W2S2 /In5fleIFEn/ n [U]
>a continuing increase in prices, or the rate at which prices increase
you are absolutely fucking retarded if you don't think rise in prices over time is a big factor of inflation on itself.

>it's the value of the currency being deliberately lowered by printing more
again, inflation on itself is nothing, you have to look at real income over time if you want to judge the economic status of a nation.

I do wonder, how are your math and analysis skills? do you even know basic stuff like the difference between mean, median and average? do you know how to calculate percentages? how about the concept of proportionality?

>> No.11899429

>>11899416
OP seriously you are getting rekt in every dimension in this thread please just concede defeat

>> No.11899456

>>11899428
>again, inflation on itself is nothing, you have to look at real income over time if you want to judge the economic status of a nation.
you are retarded, even if income keeps up with inflation it doesn't change the fact that the money earned a few years ago keeps getting devalued deliberately by the government. You are too retarded and too much of a good goy to even see the whole point of inflation.

>> No.11899465
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11899465

>>11899412
>holding fiat
who said I am holding fiat? did you even read any post I wrote here? I said only dumb people hold their money in fiat. Fiat are currency, you use them to buy stuff, you only have as much fiat as the stuff you will buy daily. The rest are invested in actual assets. Thats the whole problem with btc, nobody uses them to buy stuff, which makes it useless as a currency

>>11899429
yeah rekt! if only you were smart enough too to make your own arguments too right kiddo?

>> No.11899489
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11899489

>>11899456
LMAO. This guy doesn't even know the definition of inflation ,yet he is shitposting for an hour about his opinions and conspiracies on inflation. Classic brainletino

>> No.11899501

>>11899456
>the whole point of inflation
"inflation" doesn't have a point, retard. it's a concept that indicates that prices of things, and absolute cost of living, has become more expensive.
but you clearly fail to take into account something... and since you are a smart guy that, hopefully, has worked at least some months in his life, I'll ask you to tell me what this other fact about inflation and the economy in general has not been mentioned in this thread.

>> No.11899546

>>11899465
>invested in actual assets
There are no actual assets. Property? Fire/flood/war aaaand it's gone. Stock? Global market crash aaaaand it loses 30-50% value. Gold/silver? Guy in a lab finds a cost efficient way to produce it aaaaand it's worthless. Nice "actual assets" faggot.

>> No.11899589

>>11899546
>nothing is 100% certain
congratz buddy, you just discovered the concept of life, you can trip on your stairs on your way home and die tomorrow so your life is worthless

>> No.11899604

>>11899465
>who said I am holding fiat? did you even read any post I wrote here? I said only dumb people hold their money in fiat. Fiat are currency, you use them to buy stuff, you only have as much fiat as the stuff you will buy daily. The rest are invested in actual assets
oh so there is a magical way that we can all be "invested" and no one has to hold fiat? oh wait, someone always hold the hot potatoe, even if it's being flipped constantly, someone is loosing value holding it every second.

also nobody uses gold as a currency and it's worth $8T, explain that. And no, jewelry or electronics use cases don't justify even a small chunk of that market cap.
It's a store of vaue that does nothing whether you like it or not

>>11899489
inflating the money supply - stealing people's savings deliberately
if inflation or deflation happens due to other factors like population growth/decline etc that's another story and not what we discuss here

>>11899501
fuck off with your jewish semantics, you're gonna use the definition of inflation that fits your argument while everyone and their mothers know that it's the inflation of the money supply that's the problem nowadays.
People arent allowed to save without fplaying the fiat hot potatoe game. You think prices and income would keep rising if more money wasn't being printed constantly?

fuck outta here with your bs because everyone can see through it. We can all earn millions per hour and pay thousands for a loaf of bread, if the ratio stays the same that's not the problem, it's the fact that the money someone had saved earlier is now worth less and it didn't happen magically, it was the money printing jew deciding that

>> No.11899610

>>11899589
And yet you claim that those "actual assets" are better than fiat. Sounds to me like you're yet to discover the concept of life, faggot

>> No.11899635
File: 48 KB, 800x729, 3245.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11899635

>>11899604
you realize investment is the opposite of holding fiat right? when you invest you convert your fiat into an ownership of an asset. Are you really that of a brainlet I have to explain everything to you?

>>11899604
you don't even believe inflation data are real, your whole worldview is based on a conspiracy that everything in the world is fake and only you see the real "truth"

>> No.11899654

>>11899610
so what is better than actual assets? why don't you enlighten us all with your wisdom bud, there are billions of people that wanna know the answer to that

>> No.11899669
File: 10 KB, 300x300, 1507259674652.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11899669

>>11897293
>stealing money from peoples savings is ok because their salary can buy more shitty useless things in the moment
meme chart in op's picture literally just shows how technological advancement reduces product prices. It does not prove that stealing people's wealth somehow makes them earn more in the long run.

>> No.11899689

>>11897226
so the purchasing power is roughly the same as in the 70s?
>kids these days are lazy, they don't wanna work

>> No.11899704

>>11899635
>you realize investment is the opposite of holding fiat right? when you invest you convert your fiat into an ownership of an asset. Are you really that of a brainlet I have to explain everything to you?
I already told you that someone has to be holding FIAT at all times you retard? one person beats inflation at other person's cost. What part about it is too hard to understand for you?

>you don't even believe inflation data are real, your whole worldview is based on a conspiracy that everything in the world is fake and only you see the real "truth"

yea, because the ones printing money have all the reason in the world to be honest with the citizens that are getting robbed, right? You are the biggest goy I've ever seen. they'll always calculate it in a way that looks good on paper so cucks like you swallow the bait and go on a crusade shilling the devine invention called "printing more money out of thin air"
You'd believe that inflation is 2-3% even if you lived in Venezuela, there is no hope for you

>> No.11899729
File: 95 KB, 682x1024, 321423.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11899729

>>11899704
if all data are fake then I can claim that in reality we are all rich but the fake data show that you are poor

>> No.11899737

Over the past 50 years per worker productivity has increased 10x. That means the average worker produces 10x the goods/services that a worker did 50 years ago. This is due to advancements in technology. But we don't live 10x better off than people did 50 years ago do we. In fact 99% of people are worse off in a lot of ways, despite the massive gains in technology. The top 1% however, has seen incredible gains in wealth, much more than 10x improvements.

>> No.11899746

>>11899729
i keked

>> No.11899754

>>11899737
yeah some of those might be true, but are mostly unrelated with inflation

>> No.11899765

>>11899604
>You think prices and income would keep rising if more money wasn't being printed constantly?
well, think about it, dumbass. what would happen if the gubmint didn't print more money, but prices kept rising? what would happen to workers wages?

>fuck off with your jewish semantics, you're gonna use the definition of inflation that fits your argument while everyone and their mothers know that it's the inflation of the money supply that's the problem nowadays.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
this stuff is taught in high school, if not earlier.
I do wonder, are american schools this terrible? are high grades simply given to people for attending or something? how many people do not finish high or even primary school in the US?

man, you keep deflecting the conversation. you are a very outspoken but clearly uneducated retard. I just wonder how you found out about /biz/, much money do you have. aslo, I bet it won't last long in your hands...

>> No.11899799

>>11899754

I think the advancements in worker productivity has hidden inflation. If technological advancement doesn't continue at the same rate, but the expansion of the money supply continues, then we will see very high inflation over the next decades.

>> No.11899828

>>11899737
>But we don't live 10x better off than people did 50 years ago do we.
That's because the worker doesn't produce 10x more. The machine he operates does, and machines don't get paid.

>> No.11899864

>>11899729
you got BTFO by everyone in this thread and you're still clinging onto cringy banter?

>https://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/02/03/if-you-want-to-know-the-real-rate-of-inflation-dont-bother-with-the-cpi/#700d32c2200b
>It doesn’t make sense that the BLS’s measurement of inflation was only 1.5% last year, while at the same time, monetary inflation grew 4.9%.*

There is many ways to calculate inflation you retard and obviousy the government has 0 interest to be honest with you. Keep drinking the koolaid.

>>11899765
>well, think about it, dumbass. what would happen if the gubmint didn't print more money, but prices kept rising? what would happen to workers wages?
why would prices rise in any significant way without printing more money you retard? 0 inflation and the free market would regulate everything on its own without any distortion

>man, you keep deflecting the conversation. you are a very outspoken but clearly uneducated retard. I just wonder how you found out about /biz/, much money do you have. aslo, I bet it won't last long in your hands...
what did I say that was wrong? you obviously conveniently skip all the important points in the thread and spew non-sense that doesn't impact the topic in any way. Inflation is bad not because it raises prices but because it devalues the currency. If someone created gorillion tons of gold out of thin air magically would you say that prices rose or that gold got fucking devalued?

>> No.11899900

>>11899864
>why would prices rise in any significant way without printing more money you retard? 0 inflation and the free market would regulate everything on its own without any distortion
ho ly shit
you clearly are clueless. this has to be a troll. there is no way someone can be this retarded.
again, SUPPLY AND DEMAND, RETARD. what happens when production drops because of some big ass fire? what happens when a farmer has to sell below the cost of production? jfc, you are a dumbass, you seem to live under a fucking rock. I stopped reading there, and I'm not arguing with such a retard anymore. FUCK YOU, BRAINLET.

>> No.11899929

>>11899900
You are the fucking retard, look what you wrote you absolute subhuman:

>>11898174
>the point is obvious: inflation is caused naturally by rising prices. it's not the govt that imposes inflation, it's the market.

So I guess they can print as much money as they want and it has nothing to do with the prices.

You are so fucking retarded it's not even funny

>> No.11899934
File: 18 KB, 499x499, 1517724025082.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11899934

>>11899864
more like I BTFO multiple people alone with facts and data while all you've done is provide zero data, call all data fake and blame the fact that you are poor and don't know how to invest on a grand conspiracy?

>> No.11899946

>>11899929
again, tell me what would happen if the gubmint didn't print money.
protip: lots of people would die...

>> No.11899950

>>11899799
Technological advancement has done nothing but accelerate anon.
>>11899929
Rising prices are a good thing. You inflate debt away, you encourage people to spend now rather than later, you discourage money hoarding and instead stimulate investment.

The market tends towards safety and stagnation in a no-inflation environment, as large capitalists can safely hoard ever larger amounts of cash either way, without having to fear losses through hoarding.

>> No.11899954

>>11899929
also, as I told you: inflation is not what matters when considering cost of life. it's not as simple as that.
retard.

>> No.11899983

I bet this guy reads books on econonomy from the 18th century or something.

>> No.11900028

>>11899934
I gave you a link retard, you're just too stupid to understand anything and think that smug pepes will save your ass? sorry, everyone saw your stupidity, but you can always start with a new thread tomorrow, maybe you'll do better

>>11899946
yea ? because that's what they told you in the keynesian indoctrination camp? or is your assumption based on africa's birth rate levels?

>>11899950
>Rising prices are a good thing. You inflate debt away
the banks will make sure the interest on any loans is way greater than the inflation. And if you want to catch up with debt by printing more than may as well already hyperinflate the currency to the roof, why wait.

>discourage money hoarding
someone will always end up holding FIAT, you are another one pretending like it's a game where everyone can win. It's not.

>>11899954
Printing money out of thin air lowers the standard of living by preventing long term saving, forcing people into spending on something they wouldn't normally buy if they had the choice to save money without having it devaued by the government, they would buy something more meaningful later on. But the government and the elite have very little interest in not forcing people into rentcuckery and wagslavery till they die.
You are talking about the by product of printing money out of thin air, I'm talking about the act itself.

>> No.11900070

>>11900028
>the banks will make sure the interest on any loans is way greater than the inflation.
Unless you're big enough. Once you reach the scale of national debt, this is no longer true.
>someone will always end up holding FIAT
And give it away again. The goal is to turn it into a hot potato, so no one wants to be caught with it.
> you are another one pretending like it's a game where everyone can win. It's not.
It literally is. Friendly reminder that we live better than ever before, with less effort required for it.

>> No.11900082

>>11900028
m8 you are delusional, everyone is calling you out for being so dumb and ignorant

>> No.11900113

>>11900070
>And give it away again. The goal is to turn it into a hot potato, so no one wants to be caught with it.
yea but the problem is that the middle class and the poor don't have the same chance to flip that rotten potatote as efficiently as the rich, that's the whole problem, inflation not only doesn't impact everyone equally it helps those who already own real assets like rental properties

>>11900082
0 arguments then?
you are too retarded to discuss anything, c'mon, post some more pepes or wojaks? what happened, your fake confidence went away after being proven wrong?
You are not only a stupid cuck but also a fucking loser, be happy this is an anonymous forum and you can have a fresh start tomorrow without anyone laughing (at least the first few posts if you force your brain into absolute overdrive)

>> No.11900125

>>11900070
>It literally is. Friendly reminder that we live better than ever before, with less effort required for it.

Maybe for someone who doesn't mind being a rentcuck till he dies and having a new iphone 14 is his life goal, otherwise I'm sure people in the 60s had a better standard of living, but it depends on your priorities I guess

>> No.11900147

>>11897226
this retard chart you provided includes billionaires
the average income has reduced in purchasing power
you are fucking retarded also because the money saved in the bank is losing value

>> No.11900148

>>11900028
>Printing money out of thin air lowers the standard of living by preventing long term saving, forcing people into spending on something they wouldn't normally buy if they had the choice to save money without having it devaued by the government, they would buy something more meaningful later on.

unironically based and redpilled.
literally the only people defending inflation based economy are those who profit off selling unrequired products/services, and absolute fucking brainlets.

forcing people to spend their wealth as fast as they can is only good for a select few who couldn't make a living in a healthy economy, where people bought what they needed and would be able to save up if they want to without having to turn to hedgefunds who spend their lifetime studying market patterns and will easily fool them if they try to invest their money bypassing them


>Friendly reminder that we live better than ever before, with less effort required for it

oh yes. the only reason behind human technological investment is that the FED is allowed to print whatever amount of money they want, whenever they please. without them we'd still be stoneage.

>> No.11900160
File: 14 KB, 478x523, 1507361272497.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11900160

>>11900113
I already posted multiple arguments based on data but you are a brainlet that thinks everything is a conspiracy and all data are fake. Its futile to continue arguing with brainlets like you

>> No.11900185

>>11900160
And I told you why your "data" is BS I even gave you a link but you are choking on that keynesian koolaid unable to grasp simple concepts

>> No.11900195 [DELETED] 

>>11899946
and no wouldn't.

what would have happened in 1930 if instead of inflating away the USD, the guvment said: you either pay $500 so i can pay these construction workers build this roads, or some and work on this construction.

boom. money pumped into the economy TRANSPARENTLY without those with good connections knowing when the guvment is going to ban people to hold gold, without them getting rid of their dollars just before the guvment starts to print out a shitton, with them getting it first and being able to spend it before it has actually inflated away everyone else's dollars...

if the government didn't have the ability to print money every problem could still be solved, just much more transparently, with less smoke and mirrors that only benefits those who know what decisions they make before the general population

>> No.11900208 [DELETED] 

>>11900195

and no they wouldn't.

what would have happened in 1930 if instead of inflating away the USD, the guvment said: you either pay $500 so i can pay these construction workers build this roads, or don't pay anything just come and work on this construction and get paid for it.

boom. money pumped into the economy TRANSPARENTLY without those with good connections knowing when the guvment is going to ban people to hold gold, without them getting rid of their dollars just before the guvment starts to print out a shitton, with them getting it first and being able to spend it before it has actually inflated away everyone else's dollars...

if the government didn't have the ability to print money every problem could still be solved, just much more transparently, with less smoke and mirrors that only benefits those who know what decisions they make before the general population

>> No.11900228

>>11899946

and no they wouldn't.

what would have happened in 1930 if instead of inflating away the USD, the guvment said: you either pay $500 so i can pay these construction workers build this roads, or don't pay anything just come and work on this construction and get paid for it.

boom. money pumped into the economy TRANSPARENTLY without those with good connections knowing when the guvment is going to ban people to hold gold, without them getting rid of their dollars just before the guvment starts to print out a shitton, with them getting it first and being able to spend it before it has actually inflated away everyone else's dollars...

if the government didn't have the ability to print money every problem could still be solved, just much more transparently, with less smoke and mirrors that only benefits those who know what decisions they make before the general population

>> No.11900243
File: 23 KB, 730x340, united-states-inflation-cpi (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11900243

>>11900185
inflation has been hovering around the low 2-4% the last decades, its highest inflation rates happened before fiat when gold standard still existed and they were up to 25% inflation.

Now go ahead and tell me the chart is fake and they are hiding the real inflation rate, which if you actually knew what inflation is you would know its almost impossible to fake because everyone can calculate it based on publicly available data

>> No.11900267

>grandpa bought 10 houses with Mc Aids wage
>b-but the AVERAGE INCOME THAT ALSO COUNTS BILL GATES AND BEZOS MONEY SHOWS THAT YOU'RE RICHER THAN THE BOOMERS

>> No.11900273

>commie!
>keynesian koolaid!
I really, really want to know where do people like this guy learn about economy, politics, history, etc. do people really "learn" stuff from internet forums (say, /po/ or some shit)? or is this really a very good troll?

this guy confuses concepts, talks a lot about economic theories and uses them as insults, uses random sources for his claims, etc. but clearly lacks the most basic knowledge about math and doesn't even understand what is being said.
it's like talking with a kid who thinks he knows it all after being brainwashed for years by his old peasant father who didn't even finish mid school.

it would be funny, if it wasn't so sad to know that people like him exist, and talk a lot.

>> No.11900283

>>11900267
>back in my day we could buy a car with a nickel!
hey boomerino

>> No.11900297

>>11900243
Do you know what inflation is? It's value being siphoned into somebody else's pockets. The effective value of all circulating currency remains constant, if you holding fiat for however short a while means you lose value it's just being transferred to somebody else. There's nothing positive about a system like this.

>> No.11900312

>>11900273
says the guy who said that inflation comes from rising prices and not from printing money out of thin air
LMAO, can't make this shit up

>>11900243
obviously you can fake inflation and obviously everyone can see through it that's why no one with half a brain buys the story about 2% inflation when prices of everything are getting out of control

>> No.11900314

lol this thread is absolute carnage. Op on the rampage

>> No.11900325

>>11897226
Gr8 b8 m8

>> No.11900332

>>11900312
so why don't you prove it that inflation is fake and you know the real inflation? prices of stuff are available to everyone, surely someone must have tried to do the calculations to prove it wrong right?

>>11900297
no thats not what it is actually

>> No.11900350

>>11899217
>yeah, I'm sure supply and demand are controlled by the gubmint-owned printers

more amount of USD circulating in the economy, higher SUPPLY of USD -> prices rise.
they start rising when those who got the 'new money' first spend it. then keep rising until the economy is adjusted to the higher circulation of USD.

>> No.11900367

>>11897499
This

>> No.11900371

>>11900332
>no thats not what it is actually
cool argument

That's what it effectively is. If circulating amount of money increases and everybody gets an equal share of the increased amount, the increased amount has no effect on anybody's purchasing power. In this case inflation would be meaningless. But it's not what's happening. Currently somebody is getting the long end of the stick and most of the population get the short end.

>> No.11900374

>>11900332
because you will start cherry picking specific regions or whatever the fuck just to live in your keynesian bubble.

>> No.11900376

>>11897743
Tis why we must invest it in crypto

>> No.11900397

>>11897891
This

>> No.11900409

>>11900350
then, for the nth time, tell me: what would happen if the amount of money circulating in a given country was fixed, and suddenly there was a drought, a big fire, less oil being extracted, or anything that meant short supply of basic needs? what would happen if the distributors of food and/or landlors decided overnight that they wanted a big cut of their pie just because?
why do you people keep avoiding questions like this?

>> No.11900411

>>11897911
This

>> No.11900431

>>11898159
Some say 'a little' inflation is good for the economy as long as its predictable

>> No.11900447

>>11900409

you literally can't read
>>11900228
currently, the government pumps money into the economy by printing it whenever they please without the average person having any ability see how much money exactly is being siphoned out of his pockets.

the government can force people to pump money into the economy in much more transparent ways. one of them is "either pay or do these jobs".

>> No.11900464

>>11897226
>$ goes -95%
>you make only 400% more
>so you're only down -75%
XD

>> No.11900478

>>11897911
>>11900411

no brainlets.

the amount of work people can do and what services/products they ACTUALLY NEED remains the same regardless of how much money is flowing around in the economy.

if inflation was required for a healthy economy, the tech industry would be dead. whenever you buy a tech-product you know that in 2 years you could buy a much better one for cheaper.

with state-owned currencies, deflation indeed murders an economy because of TRADE DEFICITS. if no government had the option to inflate their currency away (e.g. people would use bitcoin wordlwide), there would be no negative effects of deflation.

>> No.11900489

>>11900447
>you literally can't read
nice non-response, brainlet

>> No.11900511

>>11897911
>>11900411
and, with fixed supply, 'saving money' would be the same as investing.

joe is fouding a company and has $100,000. going to spend a lot of it.

i'm not founding a company, rather need some rest, so i'm not spending any of my money.

i lowered the amount of USD in circulation, making the demand for the money being spent by Joe higher.

i have naturally encouraged investment and spending money by saving mine up, without needing middlemen like bankers

that's how a healthy economy works like.

>> No.11900522

>>11900332
>40 posts by this ID
Good luck trying to argue that purchasing power increased to people who lived long enough to see it actually decline. Fucking lmao

>> No.11900603

>>11900522
boomers have shitty memory, they are drunk with nostalgia and think everything was perfect back then

>> No.11900627

>>11900522
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_illusion

>> No.11900639

>>11900489
how does the government ability to print money fix any of the issues you mentioned in >>11900409
if not by pumping money into the economy?

i just told you how much better and more transparent the government could achieve that

>> No.11900641

>>11900627
actually, this article applies to lots of people ITT...
so let me quote some retards:
>>11900511
>>11900464
>>11900374
>>11900371

>> No.11900663

>>11897226
Kek, you're own "debunking" proves the people being debunked right. Just look at when Nixon got rid of the gold standard. The purchasing power of the dollar dropped from around 28 cents to 5 cents, yet if you look at average income it only rose from around $43,000 to $50,000

>> No.11900664

>>11900639
again, respond to what I asked. if you are smart enough, you'll see by yourself how printing money partly solves that problem.

and btw, I don't agree with the OP here, at all. while I don't have the exact numbers, he clearly falis to see that using average wages is absolutely wrong.

>> No.11900687
File: 11 KB, 202x249, download (10).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11900687

>>11900641
>>11900627

> This is false, as modern fiat currencies have no intrinsic value and their real value is derived from all the underlying value systems in an economy, e.g., sound government, sound economics, sound education, sound legal system, sound defence, etc. The change in this real value over time is indicated by the change in the Consumer Price Index over time.


yeah. it entirely dependent on those indexes and is not affected at all by what monkey currently leads the central bank

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-switzerland-hildebrand/swiss-central-bank-chief-quits-over-wifes-currency-deal-idUSTRE8080RK20120109

>> No.11900721
File: 230 KB, 1280x960, JTRIG_deception_p48.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11900721

>>11900687
>not replying to my question
OK, I get it, so you are a troll after all.
well done.

>> No.11900730

>>11900664
oh i got it. you are too dumb to understand and i need to lay it out to you step by step.

1. there is a huge fire. homes are destroyed etc. cities burn down.
2. the government tells everyone to either pay $500 OR help with the rebuild works
3. people decide themselves if it's worth it. the government adjusts the amount of 'fire tax' until there's just enough people offering to work rather than pay
4. pays the people rebuilding homes + helping the families to get back on feet from the money collected from those whose time was more valuable

>> No.11900761

>>11898174
>>11900409

Eventually, after the crisis ends the prices drop because there isn't an enough demand for the goods or there is more competition. In your logic, would this be deflation?

>> No.11900850

>>11899217
>is this the economic theory americans are taught? or did you learn this stuff from reading forum posts in internet?

It's through observation of countries like Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/inflation-cpi

I really don't understand how you can deny the governments impact on inflation when there are cases literally proving otherwise.

>> No.11900858

If the median income was 15k in 1913, and the dollar has gone down 95% from 1913 to 2013, then you would need an annual salary of 288,279.48 if wages were actually adjusted for inflation for you to make the same amount of "money" 100 years ago, today.

>> No.11900917

>>11900761
>>11900850
deflation IS the crisis. hyperinflation results from trying to fix the crisis

>> No.11900954

>>11900730
you forgot to add
>suppliers rise price of supplies
>suddenly, money given by the gubmint or the little money people can contribute doesn't cover costs of rebuild works
>govt has to rise taxes, which means purchasing power of EVERYONE affected by said taxes drops
>after some time, people realize this, and ask their employers to raise their wages
>"we don't have enough money"
>workers complain to gubmint
>"there is no enough money in circulation, get fucked"
>workers strike, many industries produce less or simply stop producing, which means there is not enough money to pay to keep producing, maintaining machinery and so on
>govt sends military to stop workers' strikes by the force
>workers die
then either:
>workers kill their employers, overtake factories, etc
>workers become slaves
you see, it's easier to keep printing money and give everyone involved the illusion that they are getting more money.
there is is a reaaaally tricky balance here. as long as prices of supplies rise, companies have to keep rising prices, and workers will keep asking for better pay. it can happen that workers' purchasing power improves or falls over time.
this isn't keynesianism. I'm not even an economist, far from it. this is history. it's based on obvious social patterns, basic math and so on. you don't have to be an expert to know that a fixed supply of currency is a disaster.

welcome to capitalism, enjoy your stay..

>> No.11900977

>>11900850
but your "observation" is absolutely wrong, what happens there is quite the contrary, and it contradicts what you retards keep defending in the most clear way it can be shown: "socialist" governments try to keep cash at a fixed value, and they fail hard, so for obvious reasons they end up printing even more money, while trying to contain their disasterous policies. how ignorant can you be??
let me repeat: they try to keep the value of money at a fixed level, and, because that obviously won't work (for many reasons, including inflation on itself), they end up printing money. it's not the inverse, they don't print money to make their money more valuable, they do so because they try to keep the money at a fixed value.

>>11900687
>corrupt politicians
wow, who would have suspected that corrupt people can be part of a government??!?!? I bet you believe corruption didn't exist in a gold-based economy...

>> No.11901031

>>11900954
>suppliers rise price of supplies
>suddenly, money given by the gubmint or the little money people can contribute doesn't cover costs of rebuild works

raise the amount of 'special tax'.


>govt has to rise taxes, which means purchasing power of EVERYONE affected by said taxes drops

no. not if it's "work or pay" tax. low-wage workers can go work for the govt if their employers don't pay them enough to cover the tax.
there will always be people who rather pay than work, pretty much no matter how much high the tax / individual is.
>it's easier to keep printing money and give everyone involved the illusion that they are getting more money.

you seem to think it's better if people have no idea how the government is screwing them over than if they do. you literally consider people cattle.
we differ in that view. i believe if people are given adequate information, the majority of them will make better decision than if they are lied to.

>> No.11901053

>>11900977
>wow, who would have suspected that corrupt people can be part of a government??!?!? I bet you believe corruption didn't exist in a gold-based economy...

corruption does exist and always will. the question is how much room we leave for it. the more transparent the government has to siphon money out of people's pockets, the less room there is for corruption, therefore the less corruption there will be.

>> No.11901127

fuck man this thread is painful to read. op stop posting for the love of god

>> No.11901224

>>11898126
>nobody cares about the price of a shiny rock. Inflation counts only staple products that people actually use

0/10

thanks for playing idiot. better get to bed early for school tomorrow

>> No.11901287

>>11901031
>no. not if it's "work or pay" tax. low-wage workers can go work for the govt if their employers don't pay them enough to cover the tax.
>there will always be people who rather pay than work, pretty much no matter how much high the tax / individual is.
so... who feeds them? would people work for free, just because the govt told them to? who would give them tools, means of transport, food, etc. while working? if they were forced to do so, why the hell would they care about the quality of the construction?

>you seem to think it's better if people have no idea how the government is screwing them over than if they do.
and you seem to think that the gubmint is benevolent, and would care about your home being destroyed in a huge fire.

>you literally consider people cattle.
this is the whole point of capitalism:
- as long as you work for someone else, you are a resource, not a human being. and
- as long as there is an opportunity for capitalists to take advantage of consumers, they WILL do it.
a huge fire won't be seen as a terrible loss by the people who sell materials to rebuilld your house, but as a great opportunity to extract money from you. which means prices will rise. and then prices won't fall just because there is a fixed amount of money circulating in the country. which means, workers wages go down in REAL terms.
it's not *me* who considers people cattle, it's employers, capitalists, the people who own the companies you buy from. govts aren't there to protect you, they are there to keep this balance: as long as workers live mostly OK, companies can keep growing, and the govt can keep receiving money. govts defend the interests of capitalists, but they have learned that not caring about workers right and basic needs ends up in disasters.
go read history books, most countries have lived through this, even the US, and their govts have learned the lesson the hard way. also please learn some basic math/logic...

>> No.11901321
File: 45 KB, 645x729, 1505953097341.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11901321

>>11901224
>>11901127
I like how the brainlet tards that complain about the thread don't actually provide any arguments at all.. rly makes u think

>> No.11901353

oh, btw. I just realized the dumbasses who are against printing money don't even consider population growth over time.
surely workers and capitalists would love to the see the absolute value of their money being reduced just because there are too many people and not enough bills. lol.

>> No.11901359 [DELETED] 

>>11901287

i'm done here.

>>11900489
>>you literally can't read
>nice non-response, brainlet
>so... who feeds them? would people work for free, just because the govt told them to?

>you either pay $500 so i can pay these construction workers build this roads, or don't pay anything just come and work on this construction and get paid for it.

>> No.11901389

>>11901287

i'm done here.

>>11900489
>>you literally can't read
>nice non-response, brainlet
>so... who feeds them? would people work for free, just because the govt told them to?

>>11900228

>you either pay $500 so i can pay these construction workers build this roads, or don't pay anything just come and work on this construction and get paid for it.

>> No.11901409
File: 197 KB, 1024x576, FE5CC5EF-5DB5-4D27-AAB2-AE914BD505C4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11901409

People don’t understand that you’d actually be able to contribute more to society if gold was used as real money with a stable stock to flow ratio. Inflation causes bubbles in many sectors especially real estate because you are forced to use those as “stores of value”. If you could accumulate capital you could finance more entrepreneurs to build things. Why do you think nobody is painting a Sistine chapel? Why do you think our music has evolved into tribal ape like noises, nigga, money, sex? It’s because of the monetary system set in place that causes people to have short term time preference and become animal consumers. Why do think immigration and refugees is such a major problem ? Rhetorical question.

>> No.11901418

>>11901359
>>11901389
sorry, I misread. anyway, here's my response:
>capitalist: hey man, I will offer you $20 to work in this huge construction project.
>worker: but why is the pay so low?
>capitalist: because there is a fixed amount of money circulating, gubmint isn't helping us, my jew suppliers keep asking for more and more money, I have to hire a shitload of people and I don't have enough money to hire them all!
>worker: well, go fuck yourself then
>government: go to work or pay taxes ;)
>worker: but I have no money left, I lost it all!
>government: not my problem...

>> No.11901421

>>11901321
you're unrionically 12 years old

how is middle school going

there is no question that the dollar has lost tons of value, further, there is no question that the total money supply, top 1% net worth, and stock market have increased to dangerous highs while the MEDIAN INCOME has remained at pre 2000s levels.

feel free to tell everyone that an inflated dollar is great, people in the real world know this is bullshit and only benefits asset prices held by the 1% and big banks.

how great is having a savings account that yields 0.90%? i bet you think that is wonderful

kill yourself

>> No.11901460

>>11901421
learn how to invest and you might not be so angry friendo. If a savings account is the best investment you can think of you deserve to slowly lose all your money from inflation

>> No.11901467
File: 137 KB, 1858x958, Screen Shot 2018-11-25 at 8.02.48 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11901467

>>11901321
WOW LOOK AT ALL THE GROWTH

WOW EVERYONE IN THE US IS RICH

LOOK AT ALL THE RICH PEOPLE

BOY THE STOCK MARKET SURE IS HIGH, EVERYONE IS RICH

OH WAIT

MEDIAN INCOME HAS BEEN STAGNATE FOR DECADES

I THINK INFLATION WOULD CURE THIS

>> No.11901470

>>11901418
>government: go to work or pay taxes ;)

government: go to work, for me, on the current catasthrophe this faggot guy with the orange id is talking about, that he thinks cannot be solved in any other way than printing more money, and I WILL PAY YOU with the money i get from people who value their time more than you. i will increase the 'special depression tax' until the ratio of people who work / pay is just fine. i force money to be pumped into an economy because i'm a transparent government and i like it when people actually see how the money they pay / the work they do needed help the country

>> No.11901475

>>11901467
show graph from 1913 too , why only from 1970?

>> No.11901486

>>11897226
Average income huh? Now do one for median income

>> No.11901498
File: 135 KB, 1294x1066, Screen Shot 2018-11-25 at 8.06.35 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11901498

>>11901475
who gives a fuck about pre 1970 you fucking 12 year old

the point is that inflation and money printing have exponentially increases asset prices held by big banks and the top 1% while the rest of the real world, has zero benefit from QE and ZIRP and money printing

track median income against pic related, why is the DJIA going up so much and median income is stagnate??????

>> No.11901517

>>11901470
you keep talking about pumping money into the economy... yet you believe in a fixed value, or perhaps a value tied to gold. I'm still unsure how you think that would solve anything, specially considering >>11901353

also, suppliers wouldn't give a shit about govt money if it means losing money. because, you know, workers need tools and construction materials, and that has to be bought somewhere... or your ideal govt would make those workers produce their own materials, too?

>> No.11901518
File: 317 KB, 2530x938, Screen Shot 2018-11-25 at 8.09.48 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11901518

>>11901475
WOW LOOK HOW GREAT INFLATION IS, BOY STOCKS ARE GOING UP, EVERYTHING IS GREAT, THE US IS DOING AMAZING

>> No.11901522

>>11901517
you are hopeless.

>> No.11901525

>>11901498
so..why don't you invest your income to DJIA to get monies too?

>> No.11901575

>>11897399
>wages stagnant for years
>year on year inflation

okay kike.

>> No.11901588

>>11901518
wait, why aren't you are blaming corrupt politicians for giving money to big capitalists instead of favoring workers? isn't it obvious that things are more complex than the pics you are showing here? did you not know that political trends changed in the 70s, from the keynesianism you people hate so much, to more liberal, pro-business policies? why are you not showing data from the 30s to the 70s?

>>11901522
>non-response
ok dumbass

>hurr durr let's just keep the amount of money in circulation while the population grows exponentially
top kek

>> No.11901604

dollars are backed by global US military supremacy. going off gold just removes an unnecessary step and allows the US to corner the market on production. it was a rational geopolitical move and im impressed nationalists still advocate for returning to bullion

>> No.11901691
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11901691

>>11901460
You don’t get it. Your not using a savings account as “investment” you’re using it to temporarily store your capital until you accumulate enough to build assets or fund massive cash flow genrating projects.

>> No.11901717

>>11897226
Inflation is only bad if you hold a ton of assets, i.e. you're rich.

The fed targets 2% to protect the rich

>> No.11901721

>>11901691
inflation is less than 3%. there are many corporate bonds that yield way more than that and are very low risk investments. If you can't beat inflation you are literally a brainlet

>> No.11901794

>>11901721
You’re assuming to know the exact inflation rate kek. One day it’s 3% then next day it’s 9%. More like 12% imhfo

>> No.11901813

>>11901717
No. Inflation helps the rich because they’re asset rich. Inflation crushes the poor because asset poor.

>> No.11901829

>>11901721
It’s also in the central banks interest to keep numbers obviously low. I’m sure you can figure out why.

>> No.11901832
File: 21 KB, 645x773, 1516736680336.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11901832

>>11901794
oh yeah I forgot, all economic data and indicators that exist are all fake, except the ones that support your narrative, those are completely real

>> No.11901855

>>11901829
Artificially low. But obviously you get why. You have to trust them.

>> No.11901905

>>11901832
Nobody knows how many dollars are overseas. But my guess is we’ll find out in the next few decades when the petro dollar crumples. Why do you think we have become energy independent.

>> No.11901933
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11901933

>why are you worried about inflation r u a nazi!?

>> No.11902021
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11902021

>>11901905
you dumbass even know what inflation is? its the increase of prices in products, you don't need to know how many dollar units exist to measure that

>> No.11902050 [DELETED] 
File: 190 KB, 661x394, TraitsOfMoney.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902050

>a single man was able to support a family with a regular job back then but there's nothing to see here Tim, look at this chart and sell those sovereign Bitcoins you have over there

>> No.11902064

>>11902050
>a single man was able to support a family with a regular job back then

who told you that? your boomer grandpa telling you stories to sleep again anon?

>> No.11902072
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11902072

>a single wage was able to support a family with a regular job back then but there's nothing to see here Tim, look at this chart and sell those sovereign Bitcoins you have over there, remember that if we can't confiscate them they have no value!

imagine

>> No.11902090
File: 3.02 MB, 1422x4631, boomersthedefinitivestate.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902090

>>11902064
>I went to econ believe me guys I know how money works

>> No.11902109

>>11902090
>my boomer grandpa told me that story about that time he bought a cart full of stuff from the grocery store and paid only a nickel! Now I know everything about how the economy works!

>> No.11902155
File: 280 KB, 639x505, imagine.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902155

>>11902109
>I went to college and after I sucked Krugman's dick he told me not to buy bitcoin at $12 dollars now im coping for life

>> No.11902198

>>11902155
>I am larping on the internet pretending I invested in bitcoin in 2009 but in reality I put it all in last December and now my fiat lost more value in a year than fiat has from inflation in a 100 years

>> No.11902213

>>11902021
And why do prices increase genius.

>> No.11902216
File: 1.94 MB, 1652x3400, NocoinersOnTheCasket.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902216

>>11902198
>He copes with the fact I have been telling you subhumans in here to buy since $150 and predicted numerous dips along the way

>> No.11902249

>>11902213
because the gubmint printers of course. (though I'm not telling you the obvious, direct explanation, lol!)

>> No.11902269

>>11902249
Banks print monies not the gobblermint but basically banks get to make interest on moeny they don’t even own. How nice!

>> No.11902281

>>11902216
>implying I didn't ride the pnd of btc and cashed out
>implying you aren't one of those tards that "believes" in btc and holded and lost 98% of his money
>he copes by deluding himself one day in the next decade btc will go close to ath to make back his losses

>>11902213
see >>11900243
inflation has been at the most stable and lowest points ever since the start of fiat.
Or the data are fake because they don't support your narrative right?

>> No.11902348

>>11902281
>implying your butthurt of not doing any of that isn't showing through your 50+ replies ITT

>> No.11902349
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11902349

>>11901409
Agree

>> No.11902354

>>11902269
OK, and prices of things go up because...?

meanwhile, the marketing deparment of coca cola is being paid to convince consumers that their new, expensive flavored water is more valuable than their previous products, because the CEO wants bigger gains for the next quarter.
surely banks are part of the problem, but there are simpler, more direct and fundamental reasons behind inflation: greed.

>> No.11902364

>>11901409
>Why do think immigration and refugees is such a major problem ?
https://thecaliforniagoldrushp5.weebly.com/migration.html

>> No.11902367

>>11902348
>he wants us to believe btc is legit and real
>but also wants us to believe he cashed out last year and didn't lost all his money

so which is it buddy? is btc the real thing or you cashed out a year ago because it was a pnd?

>> No.11902392

>>11902367
>implying I didn't buy at $150 so impossible for me to ever lose money
>implying you have ever bought bitcoin

>> No.11902427

>>11902392
>implying you didn't see your networth crash by more than 90% because you fell for the memes and holded
>implying you aren't coping right now by larping

>> No.11902435
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11902435

>>11902354
Sure we are all greedy, and a capitalistic society (even bitcoin) works best when a bunch of individuals is incentivized to fulfill their self-interests which in turn serves the greater good. Profit is the indicator that one is providing a good people want.

>> No.11902454

the problem is that if i earn 100k this year, the value of that money will depreciate massively within 20 years. Constant wagecucking is required

>> No.11902458

>>11902435
>Profit is the indicator that one is providing a good people want.
that way of thinking is almost religious. shit doesn't always work like that, not anymore, not in our current society.
but, whatever.

>> No.11902461

>>11902427
>>implying you didn't see your networth crash by more than 90%
THATS HAPPENED SEVERAL TIMES WHAT IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE AFRAID OF

>> No.11902464

>>11902354
You might think greed is bad. I think it’s a necessity.

>> No.11902468
File: 102 KB, 460x767, bitcoin1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902468

>>11902454
This. At least with crypto my gains are largely permanent and continuous.

>> No.11902476

>>11902435
>>11902464
you don't even seems to care about my point, btw

>> No.11902500
File: 1.02 MB, 1652x3394, 12323542343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902500

>>11902427
>implying im not the tripfag on these pics
>implying I didn't see bitcoin crash from $1300 to $150 while butthurt nocoiners like you were calling for lower prices instead of buying and missed the boat thus permabutthurt for life

>> No.11902507

>>11902458
Tell me how my company makes a profit without someone needing the good I’m providing unless I’m being subsidized by the government. At which point that’s a legislative and regulatory issue which is another problem.

>> No.11902522

>>11902500
>the bigger the larp the bigger the cope
just how much did you lose to larp this hard buddy?

>> No.11902549

>>11902522
>implying your next reply will not be a pathetic attempt at trying to save face after being irreparably btfo

>> No.11902570

>>11902507
you don't need coca cola. you may want it, but you don't need it. and you would probably hate it after you stop drinking it for a month or two.
you don't need to buy expensive headphone, you don't need branded computers, you don't need to buy american brands of chinese electronics. hell, you probably don't need many of the electronics stuff you have.
you have been convinced that you NEED them, though.

>> No.11902571

>>11902549
>he thinks he wins the argument by replying last
>doesn't realize he lost it several posts ago when he started a butthurt larping and embarrassing himself

>> No.11902604

>>11897226
how do I short this shitcoin fag op?

>> No.11902724

>>11902571
He wins because he actually proved he was here at 3 figures and you are the actual larper

>> No.11902763

>>11902570
I get your point. And I’ve thought if people had to use gold I wonder if they’d think twice before spending it on a worthless Starbucks Frappuccino or if they would delay immediate satisfaction and accumulate capital to spend on a long-term project they deem to have real value either monetarily or humanitarian. This is why buying coffee with bitcoin doesn't make sense and it never will. This is what gives bitcoin network true value. It's a monetary policy nobody can tamper with or destroy.

>> No.11902764
File: 24 KB, 136x72, COOK.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11902764

>>11897226
what misleading chart anon? you just posted two of the same exact chart and said one is better. The only difference is that the second one helpfully ends in 2006, right before the neocons and the evil jewish bankers in the federal reserve caused the biggest stock market crash since the great depression, inspiring our god Satoshi Nakamoto to create Bitcoin. I'm buying more bitcoin as I type this, I'm gonna hodl it all the way to the death of fiat.

>> No.11902781

>>11902764
Kek

>> No.11902835

>>11902724
nah bro, I actually bought at 10 dollars and sold at 20k. have fun holding my baggies for me lmao

>> No.11902902

>>11902835
cope

>> No.11902932

>>11902902
seething

>> No.11902978

>>11897252
>>11897293
The left was fiercely opposed to the rate hikes in the 70s done by Thatcher and Reagan to bring the inflation half of stagflation under control at the expense of employment. This event was used by some left commentators to mark the start of the neoliberal period.

Inflation in general, however, is not that important to Marx's analysis because it was focused about looking at the economy in "real" terms, that is in terms of price ratios.

>> No.11903256
File: 31 KB, 601x508, 12343242343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11903256

>>11902835

>> No.11903317
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11903317

>>11903256
I can smell your seething

>> No.11903359

>>11902364
>However, as land, gold, and other resources became harder to find, a group of white racists began to set up barriers for these immigrants and influenced the government to abandon laissez-faire and adopt the Foreign Miners Tax, which made their stay in America, a much more challenging one. Some foreigners left. However, many others chose to stay persistent. Those that did stay are the foundation of the magnificent cultural diversity seen in California today.
kek, what is this, some open borders propaganda some one wrote up on a blog?
>everyone was fine, until those goddamn white racists ruined everything

>> No.11903373

>>11902354
Like holy shit, why do deny the governments impact on inflation so hard?
>>11900977
You seriously deny inflation caused by a government even when given evidence of it occurring, are you mentally ill?

>> No.11903384

>>11899669
this

imagine how wealthy the world would be during these tech booms if we hadn't spent half of it in iraq and to inflation from gibs for dem programs

>> No.11903400

>>11903317
>60 larps by this coper
Imagine

>> No.11903455

>>11903400
>1 post by this ID
yes sir yes, btc moon x100 very soon sir

>> No.11903459

>>11897226
What was the purchasing power for an ounce of silver 100 years ago? What's the purchasing power for an ounce of silver today?

>> No.11903498

>>11897300
Based. You must be a Snowblossom holder.

>> No.11903506
File: 37 KB, 640x836, yr4jT84_d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11903506

>>11898174

You're fucking retarded. I'm surprised more people haven't called you out for it. If money was finite, goods would be cheaper. If the cost of a good increases, then the supply would increase until the price dropped to a reasonable level. Adjusting for inflation is a term because we need to adjust for an expansion in the circulating supply of money to gauge the cost of a good with the past.

I have no followup insult to describe how wrong you are.

>> No.11903525

>>11902571
>butthurt larping and embarrassing himself
>>11902835

>> No.11903553

>>11903506
...you're literally implying monetary inflation makes supply and demand not work. I cannot express how mind boggingly stupid that is.

>> No.11903586

>>11903359
>deflecting the point

>>11903373
what evidence, you retard? don't you see that most inflation is obviously, OBVIOUSLY caused by capitalists rising prices simply to make more money?

>>11903506
>If the cost of a good increases, then the supply would increase until the price dropped to a reasonable level
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
this is unbelievable. americans are so fucking naive, it's just incredible.

>> No.11903599
File: 162 KB, 900x900, unnamed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11903599

>>11902835

>> No.11903614 [DELETED] 

>>11903553
dw about him he has to be trolling i refuse to believe someone can be simultaneously this stupid and incessant

>> No.11903649

>>11903553

No nigger, I'm implying a constantly expanding suppy of money is a factor to consider in the rising price of goods. If people couldn't afford a hood they wouldn't pay for it and the supplier would have to adjust the price to sell anything. With an expanding money supply the provider must increase the price of their goods to make up for the increased cost of raw materials.

>>11903586

No sense in arguing with a retard

>> No.11903686

>>11903614
>rowieTFI
>dw about him he has to be trolling i refuse to believe someone can be simultaneously this stupid and incessant
yeah, you are right

>>11903649
>No sense in arguing with a retard
top lel, you are such a funny guy

>> No.11903687

>>11903384
whoa I never thought about it that way. We could've saved so much money for infrastructure or for investing in new tech.
We need to pull back on welfare spending.

>> No.11903708

>>11903586
>deflecting the point
What point am I deflecting?
You posted that random ass link as if it had any fucking purpose.
>>11903586
>most inflation is caused by those greedy evil capitalists
>just ignore when governments do print money like in Zimbabwe or Venezuela, inflation skyrockets.

>> No.11903721

>>11903686
i mistkenly thought he was addressing you (as the retard), hence i deleted my comment

>> No.11903771

>>11897716
fuck you libtard europoor fag cry about trump on reddit more hahaha

>> No.11903778

>>11903708
>You posted that random ass link as if it had any fucking purpose.
well, you could have noticed that the "migration problem" was a problem even before the 70s and even 1913. they were looking for gold, too! and they would have taken it home...

>>just ignore when governments do print money like in Zimbabwe or Venezuela, inflation skyrockets.
I didn't ignore it. I addressed this problem in this very same fucking thread, showing how it actually contradicts the retarded theory of fixed supply of money

>>11903721
lol.
well, see, you couldn't even understand his words before calling someone else a retard, kek

>> No.11903794

>>11903771
why would I? I'm happy you elected a retard as your president. he's destroying your country.

>> No.11903829

>>11903455
cope

>> No.11903869

>>11903829
sir pls buy now sir moon EOY sir pls

>> No.11903878

>>11897716
>average v median
exactly this.

>> No.11904067

>>11902835
CheapCoins trip killed you and we are pissing on your corpse

>> No.11904101

>>11897226
>here is the real value of the dollar, based on income
Autism. The value of the dollar goes down. Simple as that, it doesn't matter if people's income goes up or not because they can still put it into something that isn't depreciating. Do not hold the USD.

>> No.11904201

>>11897226
Most /biz/ don't know the difference between investment and gambling

>> No.11904416

>>11897795
Invest in....stocks?

Invest in.... Australian real estate?

Invest in.... PM's?

>>
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