/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.11383048]

Can any ausfags help me with doing crypto taxes? I've never filed a tax return but it's due on 31 October. I have a job now and have earned enough to pay taxes.

Problem is my gains are barely above where I started so I think I won't have enough money to pay the taxes. I started with $10,000 and made multiple trades of over $25,000, but now my portfolio is around $15,000 total because I never took profits.


What do

[Anonymous No.11383074]

>>11383048
Afaik you only pay cgt if you took profits and actually converted the crypto back into fiat money

[Anonymous No.11383119]

>>11383074
I think if you make trades then the tax office wants all trades taxed

[Anonymous No.11383131]

>>11383119
Idk really Im in financial advising not accounting

You should consult an accountant desu

[Anonymous No.11383183]

*monero*

[Anonymous No.11383200]

Only declare if you took profits through a bank transfer or traded to AUD on an Australian exchange. Otherwise there's zero point because the ATO has no way of knowing.

I made 100s of trades and did 3 icos, I cashed out 15k and I put in 8k, so I declared 7k CGT.

I still have crypto that I'm not telling the ATO about, but if I get audited its clear I made a reasonable attempt to pay my taxes. That's all you have to do, make it look reasonable. I'm also careful with my addresses, the addresses that btcmaekets see never touches my actual funds, only binance knows where my money is and I haven't done KYC on binance and I doubt they care what the ATO think

[Anonymous No.11383210]

>>11383200
How to avoid cgt on crypto altogether?

Can you take an overseas trip to somewhere and do it that way?

[Anonymous No.11383230]

>>11383210
Have foreign citizenship and make a bank account in that country.

If you make an account as an Australian citizen in another country they will inform the ATO but if you make it as a native you will be fine. This is obviously illegal though and quite a bit of effort. It's also hard to actually use the funds, I guess you could lie and say it was a family inheritance/gift or something but it's sketchy

[Anonymous No.11383240]

Where you live? technically it should be cgt on every trade but if you do lump sum in and out and just say you never traded then you should be good? lol.

[Anonymous No.11383257]

>>11383048
I'm American and work in corporate tax.

[Anonymous No.11383258]

>>11383048
wouldnt it just be cgt on the $5k profit you made?

[Anonymous No.11383276]

>>11383230
What if I put it in someone’s name who has no income

[Anonymous No.11383290]

>>11383183
This.

[Anonymous No.11383291]

>>11383276
Yeh do that. Guys do it all the time with their wives.

[Anonymous No.11383310]

I'm an ausfsg accountant. Not tax but have studied it. Technically you should be paying CGT. https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Working-out-your-capital-gain-or-loss/Working-out-your-capital-gain/

Its a bit of a pain in the arse. Every trade is a cgt event so you need to work out the AUD value of the coins you bought, and their value when traded for other coins. Their are apps that could help but i just worked out my own.

[Anonymous No.11383341]

Take advantage of the new technology. Unless you litteraly cashed out 20k plus from coinbase to your bank. You are under the radar

[Anonymous No.11383344]

>>11383310
>Paying tax on unrealized gains
In proper Commonwealth countries you don't pay until you sell to fiat

[Anonymous No.11383365]

>>11383310
Nigger you only need to pay what they can enforce/prove.

Only suckers honestly declare their taxes

[Anonymous No.11383370]

>>11383344
Its realised when you trade it for another crypto asset. Its probably the same in most commonwealth countries. 100% certain thats how its treated here, its how i got fooled into holding for a year for the CGT discount instead of trading for tether/other coins

[Anonymous No.11383384]

>>11383365
If you did know your client with an Australian exchange you are on the ato list. Say hello to a random audit if a few years if you've cashed out any and not declared your trades.

[Anonymous No.11383401]

>>11383384
That's why I declare all my btcmarket trades. But I've make 100s of trades on binance and participated in several ICOs and there's no way I'm paying tax on that shit. I would actually owe more money than I have now bro.

As I said, you only pay what the ATO knows about, which would be anything touching your Aussie bank account as well as what you do on an Australian exchange

[Anonymous No.11383433]

>>11383401
Yeah just be careful and think it all through (as you've been doing). Ausfags underestimate how far back audits look if you cash out.

[Anonymous No.11383439]

I too am an ausfag and still haven't done my tax, my question is when I do it, must I give the ato my trades or just declare the total amount of my capital gains and losses?

[Anonymous No.11383448]

>>11383439
Also I haven't cashed out, this would all be on trades. I really don't want to give the ato a reason to audit me so just want to declare all my capital gains and losses on my trades

[Anonymous No.11383453]

>>11383370
>Its realised when you trade it for another crypto asset.
Poor fuckers

[Anonymous No.11383474]

PAY UP SLAVE

[Anonymous No.11383494]

>>11383433
how to put money into crypto without showing up on bank statements?

[Anonymous No.11383497]

Why the fuck are you declaring your crypto gains? You honestly want to give this Jew cock sucking faggot YOUR hard earned money?

Man up, OP. Max out your deductions and invest your refund.

[Anonymous No.11383504]

>>11383370
It's hotly contested rn with no real consensus, apparently accountants are steering people towards counting each LEAF crypto to crypto trade as a taxable event yet there is no guideline from our revenue agency as of yet. If the government doesn't define it how can it be followed?
Furthermore if these accountants push people towards this behaviour it could
1. Encourage governments to adopt the idea that crypto to crypto is taxable
2. Serve to line thier own pockets with extra work and fees for taking account of every crypto to crypto trade

[Anonymous No.11383509]

>>11383494
Local bitcoin, mine it, give money to an overseas friend to buy btc for you. I didn't do this and of course am not suggesting anyone does.

[Anonymous No.11383524]

Used cointracking tool to load my btcm and binance trades. Had to load btcm trades manually which was a pain, but the tool matched everything up nicely. It calculates tax of each trade, just enter your marginal rate and you’ll get the figure you owe. Then just whack that figure in your return and keep the trade sheet handy in case the ATO ask any questions.

[Anonymous No.11383548]

>>11383504
My plan is to hold long enough for tax rules to catch up or for the world to adopt so i don't need to ever cash out. Made a cgt loss this year and will declare that. This will be topical if we have a lot of lambo buying newly rich after next bullrun.

[Anonymous No.11383560]

>>11383524
Yeah I used cointracker, thanks anons, so just need to give them the figures, I'm lucky, I didn't trade alot at the top but what I did I should be able to ride off on my losses that I decided to sell just before year of financial year for that reason

[Anonymous No.11383622]

>>11383548
>Made a cgt loss this year and will declare that.
You mean on crypto? I know it's advantageous to declare losses but I'd like to know more about your reasoning

[Anonymous No.11383753]

>>11383622
Yeah on crypto. Reason i will declare it is:
> I won't pay tax on it because its a loss.
> I can offset some future gains on this loss if the market ever recovers
> My profession has ethical requirements, risk of losing my career outweighs potential gain of dodging tax with my amount of investment.

[Anonymous No.11384128]

>>11383074
Not true, read the updated ato ruling. It's still incredibly vague but it mentions this

[Anonymous No.11384134]

>>11383753
you cant declare capital losses, friend

[Anonymous No.11384202]

>>11384134
Yes you can idiot, it's just rides off capital gains, it's not like the ato will give you back money if you only have capital losses

[Anonymous No.11384234]

>>11383048
Can't you just say it's a hobby which isn't taxable? Especially as it's only 5k you've made.

[Anonymous No.11384379]

>>11383439
I put down the total amount of money I made from crypto transactions.

The ATO seemed more than happy with that after conversing with an actual consultant

[Anonymous No.11384388]

>>11384379
Goes into capital gains section.

Just do it online
https://www.ato.gov.au/

[Anonymous No.11384578]

>>11383230
>>11383210
You’d need to leave Australia all together. You’d need to stop being an Australian resident for tax purposes (there’s a definition on the ATO site). And after a few years you could move back but you better be able to explain where the money came from.

[Anonymous No.11384596]

>>11383433
Only 7 years.

[Anonymous No.11384617]

>>11383119
This is true on paper but in practice its probably never going to be enforced. Not unless its very significant gains.

[Anonymous No.11384627]

>>11383048
if you didnt make 100k+ profit the irs wont give a shit about if you paid tax or not srs

[Anonymous No.11384637]

>>11383210
two ways to do this easily.
Don't make a lot of trades and just accumulate. You then only pay taxes on what you cash out. So you can have a couple mill in crypto just chilling out and only pay what you feel like paying.

Find places that accept crypto and just use crypto directly. Never cash out and nobody will ever know you have the money.

[Anonymous No.11384678]

This is how it is in the US. Aussies likely do similar.

[Anonymous No.11384681]

>>11383524
>cointracking
Can anyone else vouch for this? Thinking of using this too to help sort through the shitloads of binance trades i did.

[Anonymous No.11384705]

>>11384681
You will be rated out if you even visit the page for those kinds of services.

[Anonymous No.11384755]

So what happens if I am living iverseas for study (haven’t come back to Australia in 2 years) and I am buying crypto with AUD and selling it for foreign fiat? It’s a better exchange rate but no real gains