/biz/ - Business & Finance

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Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:29:26 2018 No.10630782 [Reply] [Original]

>The state of Ethereum

- I am bearish on ETH, here are my reasons:

1. Scaling

Ethereum does not scale on the base-layer. One halfway popular dapp woulrd force the whole network to its knees, as seen with Cryptokitties or popular ICOs in the past. Ethereum as it is now, cannot handle even one single decentralized application that goes mainstream. The Ethereum blocksize has exceeded 1 TB and this is a very big issue. It is a known fact in blockchain technology that larger blocks centralize validators, and this is exactly what is happening here. There are fewer and fewer FAN-nodes (full archival nodes), and these nodes update the state of the Ethereum network. Because of Ethereum’s exponentially growing blocksize, the bottleneck is not regulated below these external factors and as such results in a shrinking and more centralized network due to network demands that increasingly exceed the average users hardware and bandwidth.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:29:45 2018 No.10630789

Ethereum full nodes are getting fewer and fewer because the clients can't sync. And light nodes are not a full substitute of full node verification. This will lead to a weaker and more insecure network. Planned scaling solutions are Casper PoS, Sharding and Layer2 solution.
- Proof of Stake is not as secure as Pow because the blockchain is not anchored in the outside world through the consumption of an external resource. In PoW this resource is Electricity, which makes sure that it is very very expensive to attack the blockchain and makes this attack economically unrewarding. Using energy burnt to back a block allows us to view immutability objectively. Whereas any non-energy-based method ultimately requires someone’s subjective interpretation of immutability. By attaching energy to a block, we give it “form”, allowing it to have real weight & consequences in the physical world. And PoS also leads to centralization as the power is concentrated with the people who have the most money. The entrance barrier to staking is 32 ETH, this is a fundamentally different system as PoW where miners compete throught the use of energy (cost) with each other. I personally consider Ethereum's economics broken at the base layer.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:30:47 2018 No.10630798

- Sharding comes from the world of databases and describes a technique where a database (or a blockchain) will be split in multiple parts (called "Shards") where each of the parts has a different area of task. Validating responsibilities are split up among various groups, each with their own shard. The intent is to relieve the amount of work a single validating node must do so there can be more of them, but it only results in prolonging the issue, and not fixing the problem.
Furthermore, there’s now a huge cost for some of these nodes, as staking is required to be one of them. Sharding takes a single blockchain, turn it into multiple blockchains called Collations, then puts a twist tie on top and hopes mold doesn’t grow.
Layer2 solutions are the only viable scaling solutions. For Ethereum we have Raiden and the Loom Network. Loom is especially promising as it enables sidechains on top of the Ethereum base-layer. BUT, if Ethereum adopts PoS (which is highly untested) we have an insecure base-layer. You can build a insecure second-layer on top of a secure base-layer, but not the other way round.

Ethereums on-chain scaling solutions were delayed again this year. Casper PoS is now expected in 2019, sharding in 2020/21.

Issuance policy is another major negative point for Ethereum. The issuance of ETH is not capped! This means there is a constant flow of newly minted Ether, this goes on indifinitely in theorie. This makes Ethereum an inflationary asset, which is bad.
use cases for Ethereum: the number one use-case is tokenization. And this used 99% for ICOs which create tokens with articificial demand and no real usage. This trend is declining and so i expect the price of ETH to decline.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:31:49 2018 No.10630810

Now we come to smart contracts, a clever idea but without the potential of mass adoption.
Here is why:
- they are incredibly hard to write (see the Parity and the DAO hacks for example)
- altough in computer science "code is law", smart contracts are NOT legally binding. They are NOT real contracts.

Execution in a Turing-complete context is extremely tricky and hard to analyze. Securing a Turing-complete smart contract becomes the equivalent of proving that a computer program does not have bugs. We know this is very difficult, as nearly every computer program in existence has bugs.

Consider that writing normal contracts takes years of study and a very hard bar exam to be able to write competently. Smart contracts require at least that level of competence and yet currently, many are written by newbies that don’t understand how secure it needs to be. This is very clear from the various contracts that have been shown to be flawed.

And we have the "oracle problem", smart contracts rely on the correctness of outside data. Who feeds this data to the Ethereum system? What prevents these oracles to be corrupt or malicious? how do we prevent centralization?

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:32:51 2018 No.10630817

Blockchains have advantages in a very specific field, namely censorship-resistance and immutability. The killer use-case for this setup is Money. We do not need a decentralized internet. Because a centralized service is ALWAYS cheaper and more easy to use. Implementing a blockchain makes only sense in specific fields where immutability and the prevent of government control are important. I cannot imagine a future where everyone holds a Ethereum wallet with 345 different tokens for 345 specific services. And i highly doubt Ethereums capability to handle this kind of data load.

Ethereum is not leaderless (Vitalik Buterin and dev-team), not entirely immutable (DAO-hack and subsequent fork because of transactions that were rolled back), not a Store-of-Value because of an uncapped supply and it does not scale on the base-layer. Another thing is that BTC increasingly cuts into Ethereums use-cases with Rootstock (smart contracts) and Drivechain (side chains).

And with the death of dapps Ethereums second use case (capital raising platform) also dies.

This is the bearish case for Ethereum.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:55:05 2018 No.10630958 tl;dr lmao

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:56:24 2018 No.10630969 >muh rootstock Get da fuck outta here Sage

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 07:57:57 2018 No.10630983

>>10630782
>Ethereum does not scale on the base-layer
base layer scaling is not a solved problem, no chain has base layer scaling without significant sacrifices

what matters is who is poised to get there first, and that is precisely Ethereum, making your entire point moot

what a moron

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:01:11 2018 No.10631005 >>10630782 nobody gives a shit moi9; the ethereum foundation made its ponzi bucks and is sitting in its high castle refusing to upgrade the platform or compete with the twenty other blockchains that now do what it does but better.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:02:01 2018 No.10631010

I believe PoS will create an even better ponzi, because whales will try to accumulate as much as possible. They won't need to sell coins to buy mining equipment, just HOLD.

ETH has an inflation rate of 10% p.a. right now and no demand (decreasing number of ICOs), so it's a very good short for the rest of the year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:03:32 2018 No.10631025 Tldr: Ethereum is dead in the water.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:03:35 2018 No.10631026

>>10630798
>Layer2 solutions are the only viable scaling solutions
is this the absolute state of BTC cucks?

layer 2 depends on layer 1 you dimwit

you think 200K transactions a day (lmao bitcoin) is enough to support layer 2 scaling? absolutely not fucking possible

I have more issues with your lengthy drivel, but I honestly cba going into every single thing - practically everything you're saying is fucking stupid or plain wrong

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:03:47 2018 No.10631028 mfw rootstock moves into top5 in 2019 guaranteed

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:04:56 2018 No.10631038 >>10631005 Er...lol >>10631010 Please short

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:06:13 2018 No.10631044

>>10630983
>no chain has base layer scaling without significant sacrifices

False, it doesnt matter if you have more centralization in a dapps platform because governance model is needed to prevent child porn and rampant steal of content like movies ect.

So unless you are pro child porn you have to accept that there are no sacrifices to having 21 block producers elected democratically to have the power to prevent such content from ruining the value of the coin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:06:17 2018 No.10631046 >>10631028 Rootstock is irrelevant Mexican vapourware.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:07:42 2018 No.10631058 >>10631044 Ah the familiar old child porn obsessed EOS cuck. Shaddappayourface ah?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:10:28 2018 No.10631086 >>10631046 saying it wont moon? ha

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:10:41 2018 No.10631090

>>10631058
>Ah the familiar old child porn obsessed EOS cuck.
>Shaddappayourface ah?

Argument still remains intact. I would love to hear you totally propose a solution rather than act like a butt hurt fucked up little child who cant fucking put two and two together.

All dapps coins are going to face this problem. And they are ALL going to end up having to solve it.

You got a solution? Bring it. I'm all ears.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:15:17 2018 No.10631125 >>10631090 Child porns going to exist no matter how much eos cuck-currency you buy you silly poorfag nonce. It must be a hard life bagholding eos and thinking about child porno all the time. Why don’t you consider suicide k?

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:18:00 2018 No.10631144

>>10631090
Seriously though, if someone knows a solution I actually do want to know. Because it would be nice to know if its possible to have a 100% decentralized social media platform that wont be filled with awful and illegal shit like that.

I cannot think of anything though. Decentralized dapps coins are a myth. Its merely an upgrade to what we currently have now at this point.

> It must be a hard life bagholding eos and thinking about child porno all the time.

Yeah, hahaha fail... The absolute state of ETH bag holders I guess. Muh decentralization

> Why don’t you consider suicide k?

You are the one bag holding an argument kek

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:22:33 2018 No.10631181

Agreed OP.
I bought ethereum at $20, and recently sold all of mine for bitcoin.
Ethereum is barely decentralized at this point, for all the reasons you said. Most people here are gamblers who don't understand the economic theory behind sound money.
Proof of Stake was the last straw for me. It's going to turn ethereum into a ponzi scheme because
>muh Pow bad 4 enviornment
A lot of large Pow bitcoin miners use hydroelectric, so it's just retarded to switch to staking, which will centralize the network.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:22:36 2018 No.10631182 >>10631144 Solution: Just don’t be “friends” with people who post child porn.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:22:40 2018 No.10631185 >>10631144 eth ico investor vs eos who won?

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:26:59 2018 No.10631216

>>10631182
Wont work, its still going to be posted and it will show up on trending lists. It will be literally used to attack the coin.

YOUR FUCKING DAPP WILL BE ATTACKED.

Your coin will drop in value and people on the platform will demand a solution is implemented or they will all flee.

You need a fucking solution. Someone has to have the authority to prevent that shit from getting posted.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:29:28 2018 No.10631228 >>10631185 Not an argument. You need a solution. The only solution is democratically elected nodes / producers who have the ability to block shit like that.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:30:23 2018 No.10631234

>>10631216
Not really. I don’t think the problem is really as great as you think. People use the internet to post child porn every day. No one calls for the internet to be shut down.

If child porn was trending on twitter then we would be living in a society indeed. But generally people who post child porn are shunned. So why that would be any different on a blockchain I don’t know.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:33:07 2018 No.10631252

>>10631228
If you can “block shit like that” then you can block anything which defeats the purpose of a blockchain.

Maybe the blockchain will make it easier to track who’s posting the child porn and maybe the police can pay them a visit.

Letting dan laringitis cuck you in the ass is no solution

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:35:20 2018 No.10631273

>>10631234
>Not really. I don’t think the problem is really as great as you think. People use the internet to post child porn every day. No one calls for the internet to be shut down.

A social media dapp would fall within a day if this were to be something we see happen. Stop lieing. Anyone with half a brain fully understands this.

If your argument is that maybe we all collectively just need to stop giving a shit then.... I dont know man. Maybe you are right but.

> So why that would be any different on a blockchain I don’t know.

How come 4chan has moderators then? You are making the argument they are not needed right? Its not a problem huh.

You guys are desperate I think if you are going to claim the shit wont be a huge fucking detriment. You will never see mass adoption, its obvious as fuck if that shit is allowed to be posted consequence free.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:37:07 2018 No.10631289 >>10631273 The thing is, a social media dapp can’t be shut down. It’s in the definition of a dapp. An unstoppable application.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:37:43 2018 No.10631294

>>10631216
your retarded. if you want immutability you have to accept the negatives that come with it as well. you keep on referring to child porn in dapps. this is another retarded statement.

child porn is posted onto the chain in base64 format. so as long as your dapp doesnt need to accept strings that are anywhere near as long as a base64 image, you can safely reject it within the original smart contract code.

e.g.
if (inputString.length() > 20) {
return "Rejected tx; String too long;
}

while you can still include cp in the memo of a tx, this is the sacrifice that has to be made if you do not want ANYONE interfering with your money. With EOS, there is still a chance that your funds will get unfairly confiscated, frozen or the rules of the chain be arbitrarily changed.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:40:02 2018 No.10631308

>>10631252
>If you can “block shit like that” then you can block anything which defeats the purpose of a blockchain.

Its already a huge upgrade over current social media platforms. Its still a massive upgrade. But you will never get away with 100% decentralization. Not with dapps coins. Monero maybe. Bitcoin maybe.

Never with dapps coins. Its never going to happen.

> Maybe the blockchain will make it easier to track who’s posting the child porn and maybe the police can pay them a visit.

Oh yeah but it will still be posted.

Look guys, this is difficult for you I can tell. You are getting cucked fucking hard right now. Anyone reading this is thinking this shit will ruin a fucking social media platform instantly. Unfriending or unfollowing someone is not a fucking solution either, anyone with half a brain knows that.

The only argument I am seeing is you guys are fine with seeing that shit and think everyone else is too. That's some bag holding logic to say the least.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:40:28 2018 No.10631315 >>10630983 >>Ethereum does not scale on the base-layer >base layer scaling is not a solved problem, no chain has base layer scaling without significant sacrifices Wrong, Waves has.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:40:35 2018 No.10631316

>>10631273
>Anyone with half a brain fully understands this.
dont flatter yourself lmao

if you create a dapp that requires moderation you can just include that functionality; the point is that the base layer is supposed to be decentralized and trustless, otherwise what is the purpose?

you are describing what is essentially a non-issue

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:41:36 2018 No.10631326 >>10631315 True. Waves has. But no ones using it that’s the problemo

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:42:48 2018 No.10631339 >>10631315 explain yourself

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:44:27 2018 No.10631352

>>10631294
>your retarded. if you want immutability you have to accept the negatives that come with it as well.

I wont be going anywhere even slightly near a platform like that. I dont think most people will. You might be cool with it. Mass adoption isn't going to be a thing, your coin will be niche and maybe that's fine.

> the point is that the base layer is supposed to be decentralized and trustless, otherwise what is the purpose?

Whats the difference at that point, you have given full authoritarian control to corporate entity rather than people who have a responsibility to the coin.

That's even fucking worse! And in practice places you in the exact same situation anyway at best.

I guess we should just trust corporations to have all the power after all I guess right.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:47:38 2018 No.10631369 >>10630782 you fren, are right

>>	No thx Fri Aug 10 08:50:25 2018 No.10631406 If you can't compress your FUD into a single to the point paragraph then you have no case

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:51:29 2018 No.10631417

>>10631316
>you are describing what is essentially a non-issue

You see it as a non issue but I see it as soul crushing. It means that dapps coins are stuck in a political situation where we have to find balance and we cannot be in a completely trustless environment.

We have to choose who gets the power to do shit. EIther it be a corporation who elect themselves, democratically elected nodes / block producers or basically 100% everything goes and nobody uses the shit because its fucking awful.

Pick one!

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:51:40 2018 No.10631419

>>10631339
It's funny because nobody knows. Waves uses the Bitcoin-NG consensus algorithm (https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi16/nsdi16-paper-eyal.pdf and https://blog.wavesplatform.com/waves-ng-speed-capacity-and-a-bit-of-blockchain-for-dummies-1cf0cc10f8a4).). It needs a bit reading into but Waves is literally the fastest non-meme chain. All other high TX/s chains are basically cheating and not scalable.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:53:22 2018 No.10631434 >>10631144 Holo exists. If everyone was as cucked by pedophiles as you we wouldn't even have the internet.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:54:30 2018 No.10631440
File: 99 KB, 456x587, b250-mining.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Has anyone managed to get a Vega to mine properly on Linux yet using non-specialised kernel and drivers?

I saw in the release notes for the latest Linux kernel RC there were some improvements for Vega OpenCL but would like some thoughts.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:54:38 2018 No.10631442 >>10630782 Lots of ETH FUD and its low. Should I buy? Bitcoin is a complete joke with its 4 transactions a second. ETH probably won't scale for a while, but its still much better in its current state than shitcoin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:54:44 2018 No.10631444 >>10631434 Motherfucker that argument is bullshit and I want believe even you know it.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:55:22 2018 No.10631453

you are bearish on ethereum because you're a bitcoin maximalist
there are plenty of legitimate reasons to be against ethereum, but there are also telltale signs of arguments in bad faith from bitcoin maximalists:
>muh insecure pos
>muh fairer pow (despite btc's hashrate being 99% billionaire ASIC groups)
>muh needing archive node
>muh infinite ETH supply (please ignore bitcoin being inflationary for a while still)
>muh turing completeness
this is not a bearish case, this is a retard case

a true ethereum bear would look at vaporware ICOs holding absurd amounts of free ether, EF/parity/web3 nepotism, and most importantly the lack of credible competition and the insane price appreciation of 2017. the value proposition of smart contracts cannot be argued against unless you're a brainlet, ethereum's biggest challenge lies in economic incentives. influential developers sit on piles and piles of money and aren't hungry enough to produce their best work

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:55:31 2018 No.10631456 >>10631440 Also this was meant to be a new thread but oh well. It's appropriate for here too. The state of Ethereum is the state of GPU mining unfortunately.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:55:48 2018 No.10631463 >>10631440 Why don’t you just use Windows

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:58:36 2018 No.10631496

>>10631463

a) It's unstable, from personal experience
b) It's harder to configure
c) It uses a lot of GPU power just for the UI, I lose 50% of the hashrate on the first card.
d) This is for my main computer, not a specialised mining rig, so I don't really have any choice but to use Linux as OS because it better serves my needs in other areas.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:58:37 2018 No.10631497

>>10630782
>>10630958
>>10631453
Have you guys read this argument?

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/tetrascapital/Tetras+Capital+-+Ether+%28ETH%29+Bearish+Thesis.pdf

It's from a hedge fund explaining why they're naked shorting ETH alongside their BTC long

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 08:59:51 2018 No.10631510 File: 57 KB, 784x974, eth.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10631497 pic related

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:01:04 2018 No.10631523 >>10631496 Well then I’m unable to help. Maybe another anon would like to help

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:01:10 2018 No.10631524 >>10631038 oh and you too mr. fucknut, read the article

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:01:18 2018 No.10631526

>>10631417
whether or not it's an issue depends entirely on the dapp in question in the first place... and if it is an actual issue then the dapp can account for it

also: you think block producers are "democratically" chosen? naive as fuck; voter apathy means the wealthy are just voting themselves and each other in

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:01:46 2018 No.10631531

>>10631453
>ethereum's biggest challenge lies in economic incentives. influential developers sit on piles and piles of money and aren't hungry enough to produce their best work

Mainly because scaling on the main layer is not functional. You need scaling on the main layer and you need at least one unusually successful dapp to crop up then you will see people suddenly throw money at it.

IT ALMOST happened with cryptokitties by the way. That shit came mother fucking close but scaling wrecked the coin hard. If ETH had scaling we would have seen it explode.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:02:06 2018 No.10631536 >>10631497 Just more bitcoin maximalist coping

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:05:12 2018 No.10631560

>>10631526
>you think block producers are "democratically" chosen? naive as fuck; voter apathy means the wealthy are just voting themselves and each other in

This is true for ETH as well. You guys have to stop pretending ETH isn't owned by a corporation anyway.

> whether or not it's an issue depends entirely on the dapp in question in the first place

Maybe if ETH just focuses on games and shit where nobody can post pictures or text on chain then you will be correct. At that point maybe its a limitation of ETH. It will never be able to have social media dapps. But other coins can do both so...

Bag holding again.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:05:26 2018 No.10631562 File: 234 KB, 970x582, 47b7c410-811d-4b32-b43a-243ea307385a.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10631536 That's certainly possible. Are they right, though?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:07:16 2018 No.10631578 >>10631560 >This is true for ETH as well. no? >You guys have to stop pretending ETH isn't owned by a corporation anyway. snap back to reality please

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:08:35 2018 No.10631582 Blockchain application should be used for social media but for cloud storage and computing, private currency, content sharing etc. No need for muh decentralized twitter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:09:13 2018 No.10631592 >>10631562 No of course not. Ethereum is superior to bitcoin in every way you silly sausage

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:10:22 2018 No.10631604

>>10631578
>snap back to reality please

You dont know ETH has a core development team? You don't even know about Vitalik? He is the face of the coin for god sakes. Someone is in control of every single crypto.

lol You have not noticed this yet? That most if not all crypto have core dev teams and everything? Who do you think is funded with ICO money to develop this shit? Magical elves? LOL

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:10:34 2018 No.10631607

>>10630782
>The Ethereum blocksize has exceeded 1 TB
Wrong, it's <50GB
>There are fewer and fewer FAN-nodes (full archival nodes), and these nodes update the state of the Ethereum network
Wrong, they are called archival because they store redundant data needed only for block explorers and similar. Only the recent state is needed which is <10GB.
Bitcoin doesn't even have archival nodes, old state is always deleted.
>Ethereum full nodes are getting fewer
There are more full ethereum nodes and the network is more decentralized.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998
>Proof of Stake is not as secure as Pow because the blockchain is not anchored in the outside world
Wrong, PoS is exponentially safer because getting enough stake to attack is so expensive as to be almost impossible.
>In PoW this resource is Electricity
>By attaching energy to a block, we give it “form”
Fetishism. The only thing that matters is the cost of the attack.
>And PoS also leads to centralization as the power is concentrated with the people who have the most money
PoW is way more centralizing because it has infinite economies of scale.
>[sharding] only results in prolonging the issue, and not fixing the problem.
Again wrong, because there are no limits to parallel scaling.
>The issuance of ETH is not capped!
It appears as if Vitalik is serious about changing that when PoS comes. Last number I saw 133M eth I think.
>Ethereum is not leaderless (Vitalik Buterin and dev-team)
Bitcoin is controlled by Core, which refuses to do any real improvements. The technology is way too primitive to be left unchanged.

All in all ethereum is a superset of bitcoin - it can do everything it can and more, while doing it better. Even for simple payments bitcoin sucks because of 10 minute block time, which means having to wait 30 minutes for one confirmation is relatively common.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:15:21 2018 No.10631638

>>10630810
>smart contracts are NOT legally binding
Lawyer here. There's no reason this is true.

Contracts only need some very minor attributes to be binding (offer, acceptance, consideration. Being written down is helpful). Smart contracts have all of them.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:16:10 2018 No.10631645

>>10631582
>No need for muh decentralized twitter.

Crypto is a massive upgrade to social media though. Not only does it make it much harder to censor, bu it allows us to get rid of ad revenue models, we can still give the platform away for free while providing privacy and no KYC AND it even allows monetization at the same time.

Most people on the "it needs to be 100% decentralized" kick are fucking morons to claim that 80% decentralization would not be a massive improvement compared to the Alex Jones banning bullshit we see right now.

Who gives a fuck about giving up a little control to gain 80% decentralization? Its a fucking non argument anyway.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:20:06 2018 No.10631670

>>10631604
you're saying they 1) own it 2) are a corporation

1 is blatantly false and 2 is disingenuous at best

I respect and believe in Ethereum because it's blatant that their developers are talented and philosophically sound. The minute I stop believing that is the minute I sell my ETH; I see absolutely no substance when people shit talk Vitalik. He has influence because of merit; the moment he stops being the genius he is, his influence will diminish - as it should be.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:21:18 2018 No.10631682 >>10631670 This. There are plenty of "founders" of Ethereum who have absolutely zero soft power. See Hoskinson.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:23:53 2018 No.10631703
File: 183 KB, 720x360, 1498166920085.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10630782
The amount of ethhead cope in this thread is very satisfying.

ETH crashing and burning will be the final wake up call for this market. So much misinformation about blockchains, smart contracts, etc. all perpetuated by ETH and her many monstrous offspring.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:24:24 2018 No.10631709 >>10631592 Remember that one time when 4 percent of BTC supply got stolen during a transaction? Oh wait

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:25:51 2018 No.10631725 >>10631709 >I use a calculator instead of a PC because some of the software on my PC contains bugs lol

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:28:11 2018 No.10631751

>>10631352
>I wont be going anywhere even slightly near a platform like that
except that other people have. and have been for the last 10 years. besides the internet has far more porn than any current blockchain yet you still use it and so does everyone else.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:28:41 2018 No.10631755 >>10630983 XRP solves it retard lmao!!!

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:28:50 2018 No.10631757 How does ipfs deal with cp?

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:28:51 2018 No.10631758

>>10631670
This is some serious cope dude.

Every coin is run by a core dev team. Someone had to make the fucking things. They control the coin as well. Even fucking Monero has a handful of people in charge of the coins future.

They get paid just like any other corporation.

And the bottom line is, like my above points before about the need for governance on layer 1. If you want your coin to run dapps you have to choose who controls shit.

You either give it to
> Democratic elected nodes or block producers (IMHO the best solution.
> Corporations / Dapps developers allah google and twitter
> Nobody : completely and utterly unpoliced and people are afraid to use the shit and it never gains mass adoption

Take your pick dude.
ETH is probably going to have you chose what nodes you use after it gets casper / plasma. Welcome to basically the same shit as every other coin.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:29:12 2018 No.10631762

>>10631645
If you have a decentralized twitter then you will have illegal content posted all the time, and you can't do anything about it.
If you give up control so you can ban and cencor any post be it illegal or otherwise, its not decentralized because you're giving power to an entiy over the others.

Decentralized twitter is stupid unless your fine with anything, any content being posted. Who wants to have pay everytime to post? Its stupid and doesn't need blockchain at all.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:31:35 2018 No.10631784

>>10631751
>except that other people have. and have been for the last 10 years.

The internet is not 100% unpoliced. This argument is fucking stupid. ISPs can and probably will stop you if they see you doing illegal shit. Its been like this since the fucking 90s.

Not an argument. 100% decentralization is a fucking myth. Its a myth no better than the 100% privacy myth.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:32:55 2018 No.10631800

>>10631762
>If you have a decentralized twitter then you will have illegal content posted all the time, and you can't do anything about it.

On chain governance solves this. Otherwise yes this becomes a problem. You are fooling yourself if you think ETH wont end up with on chain governance just like every other dapps coin.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:36:23 2018 No.10631835

>>10631758
>Corporations / Dapps developers allah google and twitter
literally no different than handling it in layer 1 except you lost the flexibility of opting out of it when it isn't needed

You can pick all 3 on Ethereum if you like - more even, if you like. Users who want no moderation can use dapps that have no moderation. Users who want moderation can use dapps that have backdoors for moderation.

All this being said: I don't even see it as a significant problem in the first place; I think it's a way to justify centralization, which in turn is the only way to justify EOS

>ETH is probably going to have you chose what nodes you use after it gets casper / plasma
what?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:37:31 2018 No.10631842 >>10631757 Not sure, I know in the case of steemit with IPFS they simply destroy the post itself so it no longer exists on the blockchain and thus doesn't effect the dapp anymore. But it likely just sits on the IPFS network forever...

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:37:33 2018 No.10631843 >>10631800 >You are fooling yourself if you think ETH wont end up with on chain governance just like every other dapps coin ???????????????????????

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:41:21 2018 No.10631874 >>10631440 its shite

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:41:39 2018 No.10631879

>>10631835
>literally no different than handling it in layer 1 except you lost the flexibility of opting out of it when it isn't needed

No because it creates a balance of power. Dapps devs will always be selected but if they are the only ones in charge you might as well just use twitter anyway. They can delete your content and ban you just like a centralized platform at that point.

Checks and balances is better than just giving one entity 100% of the power.

> I think it's a way to justify centralization, which in turn is the only way to justify EOS

Because you are going to end up having to do this fucking anyway. Its not fucking avoidable. Dapps coins are going to be highly political environments and no just giving the dapps devs all of the power will not solve shit. You need decentralization and giving only the devs 100% of the power SOLVES NOTHING.

You need checks and balances or its YOU who wants centralization not me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:42:55 2018 No.10631897 >>10631843 Casper and plasma will result inf some kind of variation of what I have been pointing out. You connect to nodes IE block producers and they sanitize and moderate shit. Every dapps coin is going to ultimately end up this way.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:45:54 2018 No.10631930

>>10631879
>Checks and balances is better than just giving one entity 100% of the power.
design whatever checks and balances you like into your dapp

you have infinite flexibility when the base layer is 100% trustless

>Because you are going to end up having to do this fucking anyway.
no... it's contextual...

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:47:12 2018 No.10631941 >>10631897 >Casper and plasma will result inf some kind of variation of what I have been pointing out. You connect to nodes IE block producers and they sanitize and moderate shit. do you have any idea what you are saying at this point?

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:50:11 2018 No.10631978

>>10631510
can't be arsed to read the pdf (who writes a paper in 2018 without proper jumps to chapters or at least number indexing? trust fund money turned hedge fund money), but seeing as the titles are pretty descriptive let's address them in order

A.
- shortsighted view of the advantages decentralization can offer, from new use cases to improvements on current models
- there is no legitimate dapp platform competitor. i'm the first guy wishing there were, but this isn't the case
- first layer strain for unoptimized dapps has no relation to centralization, and stunts growth only for unexperienced developers. plasma cash sidechains work well enough as of now... the main issue has to do with onboarding users and taking the time to actually build shit
- political centralizaiton is a legitimate concern
B.
- this is a plausible scenario
- not sure what this one implies and not going to hunt for it in their paper
C.
- ETH is neither money nor equity
- oil is not a store of value but nobody worries about its cumulative valuation in the trillions. while comparing a digital arbitrary resource to a physical one would be silly, the assumption cryptocoins must be store of value to justify a high market cap is overly myopic. it's better to think of market cap as a multiplier of the value you put on the security of the protocol
- there's no compelling reason making BTC better digital gold than ETH. if anything, unlike bitcoin real gold has practical non-monetary applications; making ethereum is closer in spirit to gold than bitcoin
- multiple crypto-asset SoVs are so overwhelmingly likely they're almost inevitable. stablecoins projects collaterized with gold, crypto or other assets already exist and will only expand in scope and number
- true

so basically, complete technological illiteracy coupled with a little bit of financial knowledge

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:51:50 2018 No.10631995

>>10631930
>design whatever checks and balances you like into your dapp

> Hey guys I am totally going to police myself alright!

> you have infinite flexibility when the base layer is 100% trustless

You will have to place 100% trust on dapps devs. That's centralization. IE Delegatecall right now.

Guys, 100% decentralization is a myth. It cannot exist. Its bullshit. The base layer needs some way to keep shit in check or you will never get mass adoption. Dapps devs with 100% control is identical to what we already have now.

> no... it's contextual...

Yes the context is social media dapps. That's the context here. There is no other context worth mentioning. And in this case you need governance.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:52:22 2018 No.10632001 >>10630810 >And we have the "oracle problem", smart contracts rely on the correctness of outside data. Think bigger, there's no oracle problem if everything is on chain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:56:42 2018 No.10632056 >>10631995 >what is open source code inb4 "i can't read code and most users won't" - irrelevant point, decentralization ensues when enough unaffiliated individuals with knowledge can read that open source code and vouch for the way it works

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 09:59:21 2018 No.10632089 >>10631995 don't use a dapp if you don't agree with their philosophies, lmao - you have to do this ultimately no matter what dapp you use >Guys, 100% decentralization is a myth. It cannot exist. Its bullshit. prove it

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:00:38 2018 No.10632108

>>10632056
>inb4 "i can't read code and most users won't" - irrelevant point, decentralization ensues when enough unaffiliated individuals with knowledge can read that open source code and vouch for the way it works

LOOM isnt open source. Further showing my point. Delegatecall is just as centralized as google at this point. In practice not having governance just means you yield all control to one entity and they do whatever they want.

Anyway its not an argument, I am talking about dapps coins and the fact that they are going to be heavily political environments where we will have to govern them or there will never be a chance for mass adoption. How public the code is wont matter. Some entity is going to have the power to delete your spicy memes and you are a fool if you think otherwise.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:01:40 2018 No.10632128

>>10632089
>don't use a dapp if you don't agree with their philosophies, lmao - you have to do this ultimately no matter what dapp you use

> Yeah man, stop using facebook and google too man! Problem solved LOL

Give me a fucking break. The first big dapps will be monopolies and you fucking know it.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:11:25 2018 No.10632222

>>10632128
Imagine if governments maintained deeds and identities on the blockchain - now you could create an example contract:

Send X ETH to this smart contract and the deed to my house will transfer to your identity immediately

There are so many inefficiencies and middle men that can be made redundant through smart contracts, but it doesn't work unless it's fundamentally trustless

look how CP doesn't even enter into the equation; it's not relevant to the context - social media on the blockchain is a meme, and if you think the moderation can be pushed to layer 1 you are fucking mistaken

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:11:57 2018 No.10632225 >>10630983 >what matters is who is poised to get there first, and that is precisely... Cardano

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:16:31 2018 No.10632272

>>10632128
>The first big dapps will be monopolies
This may be true but ironically not in a "monopolistic" way.

The first big dapps (almost certainly OMG) will be monopolies but only because their philosophy is literally as anti-monopoly as possible. They'll become public utilities in a way.

It's like saying the government has a monopoly on building roads. Completely true, but what the fuck is the problem if everyone can use them for free and they're good roads?

If they actually start behaving monopolistically, then there's a problem. But luckily for the public it's never been easier to fork the repository and just make a new dapp that isn't acting like an asshole.

The future will be just decentralized, possible creeping centralization, then a fork. Repeat steps 1 2 3. The only thing to do is make the process easier.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:20:18 2018 No.10632309

>>10632222
>social media on the blockchain is a meme, and if you think the moderation can be pushed to layer 1 you are fucking mistaken

Social media is the best overall use case for crypto as it offers a handful of advantages. But reading this is actually pretty funny because one of the biggest ETH bag holder copes is the ever present

> WAAHHH ETH WAS NEVER MEANT TO USE DAPPS LIKE EOS CAN!!!

This is some juicy shit haha
Literally the best thing crypto brings to the table outside of new gaming mechanics ect is social media with no ads, privacy no KYC and the ability to monetize.

Problem is, any coin that tries to go the route without on chain governance is going to hit a fucking CP brick wall and its going to be fucking hilarious. (And sad) Because the dapps are going to be 100% centralized in spite of people claiming layer 1 would decentralize everything LMAO!!!

> Its cool though guys, ETH was never meant to run big dapps, its a store of value like gold. Am I right?

I cant wait. Its already starting to happen even in this thread. People claiming social media dapps are not a good thing for mass adoption alone is pretty much admitting that ETH is going sub 100 USD by EOY. And never recovering.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:22:07 2018 No.10632329 >>10632309 Payments is obviously The #1 near term use case. Social media is a great use case too but it's just way more complicated to do and not a near term possibility

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:22:59 2018 No.10632341

>>10632272
>This may be true but ironically not in a "monopolistic" way.

Yeah man, anyone can just make another google any time they want. Just like anyone can fork ETH any time they want and get everyone to jump to the new coin with zero problems right.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:26:28 2018 No.10632385

>>10632341
>zero problems
Probably not zero but WAY FEWER than trying to fork something like Google (I'm talking about the corporation not only the search engine)

It is possible to fork ETH. It's been done several times already. Nobody has moved to newETHchain because nobody has seen a need to. Aka, ETH still has political credibility for most of its users.

Once that credibility is lost it IS very easy to move.

Way easier that trying to ditch Twitter for Gab or something. So overall it's an improvement in decentralization.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:28:15 2018 No.10632400 >>10631607 >The Ethereum blocksize has exceeded 1 TB Wrong, it's <50GB This might have been true 2 years ago. Have you tried running geth lately? It is 150gb with syncing only the block headers, 1tb+ if running a full node.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:29:10 2018 No.10632408 ETH will crash because all the scam ICO's that pumped it will cash out thus crashing it

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:32:03 2018 No.10632440 Solution. Buy zil. Once it finishes its decline to 1c. Load up on that and thank me in 2019/2020z

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:32:05 2018 No.10632441 >>10631800 If you do onchain governance then you'd put centralization in the hands of the rich, which would have the most voting power to censor your ass

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:34:19 2018 No.10632464

>>10632329
>Payments is obviously The #1 near term use case.

true

> Social media is a great use case too but it's just way more complicated to do and not a near term possibility

Steemit works fine. It may not be perfect but it already shows how powerful a system like this can be.
Delegatecall is as well, really good for what it is. Novusphere is already showing huge potential.
Everipedia, again huge potential.

> Aka, ETH still has political credibility for most of its users.

Is that really true? IMHO ETC has more credibility if you want to genuinely make the 100% code is law argument. Just saying man.

> Way easier that trying to ditch Twitter for Gab or something. So overall it's an improvement in decentralization.

I personally think it will be the same shit. History repeating itself. The only difference we can do now is to get governance on chain as a checks and balances.

Ultimately it makes no fucking difference in practice how decentralized layer 1 is if we just repeat the same tired ass fucking formula all over again with no changes. Which is exactly what dapps devs having all the power will be.

If I want a coin that has no governance ill go with monero or some shit like that. But even there you have to worry about centralization still.

All of you are fooling yourselves if you think dapps coins can just get away with being 100% code is law. Even smart contracts by themselves still require you to trust a human being in practice.

100% decentralization is a fucking myth. We need to run this shit in a political way or we end up with google 2.0 or CP Kekistan.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:35:43 2018 No.10632479 >>10632441 Those rich would then fuck up their own money in doing so. On chain governance means incentives to keep people using the coin or you face consequences. That's why on chain governance is a good thing. Fuck up and you can lose millions.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:41:20 2018 No.10632522

>>10632479
On-Chain governance has problems, like people not giving a damn to vote, or bribery, for example if someone says to vote for a certain something and you get rewarded then people will vote without looking much into what they're actually voting for.

Big rich holders will be in power, on-chain governance isn't a problem solver but brings in more problems and so shouldn't be implmented in the first place.

If you want a socal media that is decentralized thus cencorship resistant then you will have to allow anything to be posted. Putting on-chain governance will allow the rich to cencor with stupid reasons without consiquences, look at EOS with its DPOS voting system for example.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 10:50:37 2018 No.10632582

>>10632522
>On-Chain governance has problems, like people not giving a damn to vote, or bribery, for example if someone says to vote for a certain something and you get rewarded then people will vote without looking much into what they're actually voting for.

And its going to be hyper political mind fuck to the point of madness and that is exactly what this shit is going to be and it will never fucking end.

> Big rich holders will be in power, on-chain governance isn't a problem solver but brings in more problems and so shouldn't be implmented in the first place.

Its needed or you basically end up with google 2.0 or CP Kekistan.
I have already explained this. You need it.

> If you want a socal media that is decentralized thus cencorship resistant then you will have to allow anything to be posted.

If you go this route nobody will use your platform because people post literally anything they want. CP Kekistan.

The coin drops in value, people who want the coin to go up in value will complain because CP Kekistan turns out to be pretty fucking unpopular with normies.

Devs will figure out a solution. If the solution is dapps devs get 100% coontrol you get google 2.0.

> Putting on-chain governance will allow the rich to cencor with stupid reasons without consiquences, look at EOS with its DPOS voting system for example.

The rich take huge risks fucking around that way and ultimately they want the coin to continue to go up in value. Thats how this works, governance on chain provides people in power with incentive to keep the coin in a health eco system. Dapps devs can jump ship any time they want.

Dapps coins are going to be hyper political. Its just going to be the nature of the beast.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 11:02:44 2018 No.10632677 File: 596 KB, 1375x1331, bitcoindivorce.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10630782 i swear i saw this exact same thread in 2016

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 11:02:45 2018 No.10632678 Pro tip: buy zil. Seriously.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 11:02:54 2018 No.10632680

>>10632400
blockchain = all blocks
>It is 150gb with syncing only the block headers
Only light sync uses block headers only.
Full node takes 91GB
https://etherscan.io/chart2/chaindatasizefast
Which is larger than the blockchain and state because geth is inefficient and puts everything into a database.

That 150GB is a hybrid between full and archival node because geth can't fully delete old data, only parity can.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 11:03:39 2018 No.10632692

Are you all retards cereal right now?
Are you unaware of the Ponzi schemes that were going on and had a huge scale of flow going through the network?
There's new things FOMO, P3D, Zethr and theLastWinner which hold literal millions of $$$ right now
The network is exploding in this bear market and it's proven it's scalability several times over in the last month.
What you faggots should be talking about is the 51% attack where the miners effectively control the transaction flow, which has happened 2 weeks ago with another ponzi and the miners took ~2-3k ETH for themselves
Damn bois, this shit has been shilled here forever. How are you so blind?
And for those of you who are actual """engineers""" r/ethdev is full of discussions about smart contracts and lmao @ "but it's hard and not legal documents :((((("
When humanities try to get into technology lol

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 11:16:15 2018 No.10632832 >>10632692 >What you faggots should be talking about is the 51% attack where the miners effectively control the transaction flow Everyone knows mining is centralized, which is another reason why PoS is better.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 11:55:09 2018 No.10633233
File: 64 KB, 960x926, tinderthot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

OP is 100% right just listen to these retards it's like they don't even know EOS has solved all the problems and rootstock will moon while ETH goes to zero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynqrka5DQOI

>>	Fatty Fri Aug 10 11:59:24 2018 No.10633286 >>10631044 How much is EOS paying you to shill. Is it hourly or per post? Im interested. Email me details: Fud.Migger@yahool.com

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 13:00:36 2018 No.10634043

>>10633233
EOS and everyone promoting it is the epitome of what's wrong in crypto. A non-functioning product that has seemingly squandered BILLIONS from investors, while attacking other real products to try and make themselves look better. A complete and utter disgrace.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 14:06:48 2018 No.10634865 >eth fud at lowest ytd im all in

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 14:52:53 2018 No.10635392 >>10630782 >>10631607 >>10632400 > 1 TB blocksize > 150 GB blocksize > 50 GB blocksize the absolute state of /biz/

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 14:56:36 2018 No.10635437
File: 110 KB, 821x672, Screenshot_2018-08-10_14-55-47.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10634043
The EOS blockchain is functioning pretty well actually, and it's about to get a lot better with the introduction of resource renting. The writing is already on the wall. Ethereum has been dethroned.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 16:25:12 2018 No.10636421 File: 81 KB, 1024x1024, 13535.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >ethereum killer

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:00:12 2018 No.10636855 >>10630810 >smart contracts are NOT legally binding. They are NOT real contracts This is 100% false, where did you hear this information?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:05:29 2018 No.10636911 >>10631406 lmao. Add this to bagholder bingo.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:06:43 2018 No.10636931 >>10635437 The second and third positions show what's the value of worthless transactions. Put reddit up on 'blockchain' with every upvote generating a transaction. Millions of transactions daily. Are they worth anything? No.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:08:26 2018 No.10636952 >>10630782 won't be long until TRX takes over ETH!

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:08:35 2018 No.10636954
File: 138 KB, 1000x667, 4F2C9500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

didn't read whole thread, but in regards to scaling

since it's very hard to get a full node, is it viable to have 2-3 copies on ultra-fast SSD (2gb/s) then just duplicate them and sell to miners / whatever? I mean full blockchain synced on SSD and then sell this drive for 100$?
I have 27mb/s download speed where I live and thinking how I can benefit from this

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:10:45 2018 No.10636989 File: 54 KB, 514x334, eosprediction8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10636931 Keep moving those goal posts.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:12:18 2018 No.10637022 >>10636989 can you make a bigger strawman?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:13:39 2018 No.10637040 >>10636954 Your business idea is a dud because >since it's very hard to get a full node is a lie spread mainly by bitcoin maximalists (not exclusively). All you need is a ssd, that's it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:16:34 2018 No.10637088 If I set a buy order for ETH at $100 it will trigger in two weeks and even then I will overpay.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:16:52 2018 No.10637094

>>10637022
The same people saying blockchain activity are the same ones who said no one would use it, it would never have a main net, it was a worthless ERC token, Dan was going to exit scam etc. Now when it gets a few killer apps running (EOSfinex, everipedia) you're going to change it to "hurrrr the token price won't go up just because people are using it". And it will go on and on.

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:17:48 2018 No.10637110

>>10637040
so 340 days to sync a node is true on 5400rpm hdd? how much it takes to sync on SSD? I just only have SSD so I can't compare anything at my own
I've been trying different coins and wallets, just for lulz tried to sync 41gb and it took me around 16 hours, so when I've heard about all these things about ETH blockchain it was natural way of thought to find out how to help people with this issue

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:21:42 2018 No.10637158 Eos is a scam darrimer project. If you want to know the future of eos just take a look at bitchshares. A centralised pump and dump scheme

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:21:47 2018 No.10637159 File: 809 KB, 1024x768, shutterstock_650811721.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10637088 yes

Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:23:58 2018 No.10637181

>>10637158
Why hasn't he run off with his $4 billion yet? Why is he still developing for the platform and improving it? The amount of mental gymnastics people must go through to actually believe this at this point is astounding. This is your brain on plebbit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:38:07 2018 No.10637368 please buy

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:43:25 2018 No.10637447 >>10636855 Honestly of all the crap in that post the contracts thing was the worst. Literally you can make a contract >"Me Gungar me give pencil you give 5 dollars" Sign that and it's a contract. The bar is extremely low and that anon is pure FUD

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 10 17:58:18 2018 No.10637648 >>10631144 Memo.cash

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