/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9703502

>>9703502

>>9703502
>Why do people put value into crypto?
it's gambling that people can justify to themselves by reasoning that it's an investment

>>9703502
>it's entire value is based off of limited supply and how much people believe it's worth
your point?

most alts are shitcoins without a future but you are absolutely deluded if you don't believe block chain tech has a future and probably failed your intro to econ classes too.

I don't put value in most projects except as greater fool pumps. Some projects will survive this period of chaos and make real change in digital infrastructure.

>>9703606
But In gambling there is usually a good odd percentage
This is the belief that

1. The monetary value of the world will change in your particular life time

2. That the money you invested into the particular monetary value will yield you a profit more than you have invested

3. That there is no better alternative that can come out during the time period from your investment to the point of commercial world acceptance

It seems quite illogical

>>9703502
Bitconnnneeeecccccttttt!!!!!!!!!!!

>>9703608
But this falls under the belief that blockchain is a secure enough that there is a 100% chance that it will always be resistant to modification or exploits
And that even if it's exploited, there is enough people that can """fix the mistake""""


Which honestly? I find fairly unbelievable.

Yet people put their entire fortunes onto it in the hopes that it will yield a future profit

>>9703502
Why do people put value in dollar? It's value is based on limited supply, which can be manipulated by central banks.
>manipulated by central banks
>manipulated
>central banks
Wew, really makes the noggin joggin

>>9703714
so ignore it then and leave biz you geriatric faggot, let them lose their money

>>9703714
You might want to learn shat SHA-256 is first, before posting your brainlet opinions.

>>9703765
Ok, on the assumption that someone cannot find an exploit to generate their own hashes, what's to say that block chain is the complete reliable resource that people will use following into the future

What stops your investment from losing 100% of it's value the moment people start picking up on an alternative system such as a Ripple Protocol Consensus Algorithm, or the next thing, or the next thing after that

replace "crypto" with "stocks" and ask the same question
>inb4 dividends
most stocks don't play dividends
>inb4 voting rights
only relevant to people holding a significant share of the stock. even so, voting rights are irrelevant for most inverstors (speculators)

>>9703810
Companies usually produce products or services and the stock is essentially the same as backing said product or service

>>9703502
https://youtu.be/NqxovpWcOJ4
https://youtu.be/NkNgaAYbVGU
https://currencyindependence.com/read-en.html
https://money.visualcapitalist.com/currency-and-the-collapse-of-the-roman-empire/
https://fnordprefekt.de/

now, if you continue to ask this question or argue, it just means you're retarded and I'll have no sympathy

>>9703827
what does 'backing' mean though. say I bought a stock for 100$. what does the stock itself give me?

>>9703794
>>9703827
why don't you just leave at let them lose their money?

>>9703828
Rome didn't fall because of monetary reasons dingus fuckus

Rome fell because the Gracchi brothers were killed by the the consuls of the time which decided that laws and orders didn't mean jack shit which led to Sulla marching on the Roman empire and creating precedent that with an army big enough you can simply massacre the current government at hand and get away with it

>>9703852
A claim on the company's assets and earnings based on the amount invested

>>9703502
The point is to buy it cheap now so when you can actually buy goods with crypto it'll be worth a lot more than when you first brought in... you faggot

>>9703901
cool

Because I cant track the progress of my bank wires that take multiple days while with crypto I can send large sums of money instantly in comparison and track if needed.

>>9703912
>A claim on the company's assets
only in case of bankruptcy does it hold any relevance
>and earnings
most stocks don't pay dividends

>>9703502
Decentralization, google it, understand it.
Picture of OP

>>9703608
>>9703621
an industrial application of blockchain doesn't necessarily mean there's an opportunity for armchair investors to profit.
blockchain probably has a lot off uses, but currency isn't one of them
>>9703652
not sure what point you're trying to make
>>9703794
>>9703714
you're too fixated on technicalities, cultists aren't swayed because someone points out their god doesn't exist.
>>9703855
because arguing with idiots on the internet is it's own fun. and I'm 100% these people are going to waste their money one way or another regardless

>>9703714
As if what you find believable determines the validity of something. You sir are truly retarded.

>>9703502
Cryptocurrencies can potentially replace fiat in the future. But with its current state, i think it needs more improvements so just wait patiently for the coin that will replace BTC and eventually fiat.

>>9704111
>most stocks don't pay dividends
growth is also a form of investment return. instead of paying out dividends the company may choose to use the money to build a second factory, an investor would now have part ownership of two factories instead of one.
but also being able to pay dividends in the long term goal of any publicly traded company

>>9704200
Why does one want to replace fiat that is currently in place?

Isn't the backing of a strong governmental force the reason people started using fiat in the first place?

>>9704155
>blockchain probably has a lot off uses, but currency isn't one of them
Oh dammit, I just used the picture one post above yours :(

>>9704221
Not in Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Greece, Germany.
Hyperinflation makes your money have basically 0 value . And the government can take all the money in your bank for any reason they deem to be legal.
With BTC there is no central authority. No hyperflation possible, and nobody can take your bitcoin from you (if you use enough security)

>>9704248
>and nobody can take your bitcoin from you (if you use enough security)
they can throw you in jail for the rest of your life if you don't give it to them though, which amounts to the same thing

>>9704200
>>9703931
>>9704248
even if you don't like the idea of planned inflation, the supply of a currency should still grow with the amount of stuff created every year. it wouldn't make sense to still be able to buy a new car for $2000

>>9703828
>https://money.visualcapitalist.com/currency-and-the-collapse-of-the-roman-empire/
>funded by texas precious metals
totally not a bias opinion designed to sell more gold and silver.

>>9704221
Cryptocurrencies eliminate the need for third-parties during transactions, like how you pay your coffee with your debit card and your bank facilitates the transfer of your money from you to the coffee store.

>>9704203
>growth is also a form of investment return.
>an investor would now have part ownership of two factories
yeah but the whole question is what part ownership actually gives to investors.

>but also being able to pay dividends in the long term goal of any publicly traded company
seems like most company never intend on paying dividends

>>9704292
Not really the same thing at all. But if you don't see this, I don't have time to explain it to you.

>>9704348
hyperinflation destroys any economy and has been happening since forever*

happy?

>>9704407
>yeah but the whole question is what part ownership actually gives to investors.
the ability collect dividends or sell at a higher price if the company grows
>seems like most company never intend on paying dividends
unless it's a penny stock scam they do. or no one would invest in it.

generally when you need funding to start a new business you have two options; take out a loan, but you would be on the hook if the business fails, so people don't do this unless it's a sure thing. the other option is to sell part ownership in the form of stock where the other owners are entitled to dividends once the business is profitable. if the business fails everybody goes bust, but the risk of that happening is split between all parties.

>>9704470
hyperinflation is usually the last desperate hail mary of governments who are falling apart for other reasons.
it isn't as visible but deflation can also wreck havoc on an economy, eg. the great depression and opium wars

>>9703502
Let's go back to gold. People valued it for itself before they became interested in trading it. How much people believe is worth is important in itself. Goid has some interesting physical properties that have historically made it prove itself as a decent store of value. An interesting aspect of some cryptocurrencies is that they're hard to counterfeit and can't be issued at will. There's more stuff that some have like divisibility, durability, portability, scarcity... Cryptocurrencies are not gold, they are something different. Personally I'm mostly interested in having a place where I can deposit part of my wealth that will be relatively safe from others. If I want to store gold, I have to look for a place to put it where nobody bad will find it. I can place some cryptocurrencies in a wallet and then save some letters in my head. This brings other complications. The most interesting properties of gold are mainly physical, for cryptocurrencies they come from a complex set of interactions.

Being an ideal medium of exchange or an adequate payment method for all transactions is also something different. For this it may be more efficient the existence of existing alternatives or new ones or some sort of tokenized backend there where it's useful to have one for those that consider it necessary. How those things acquire value is their own problem to figure out. Some people can also be interested in trading cryptocurrencies for clothes or work or some kind of digital operation.., and from there people can choose what currencies they wish to own.

>>9704555
Can we discuss about deflationary currencies NOT based on debt?.
Wouldn't that change things around a bit?

>>9703502
It's a speculation on the potential of the technology

>>9703502
This is now a brainlet thread

>>9703502

>>9703502
Uhhhhhh

>>9704744
Checked
Pic related is op

>>9704684
the great depression and opium wars were both in part because of the trade of precious metals as currency, not modern fiat.

>>9704877
How did trading precious metals cause those?

>>9704908
fuck, that's a huge history lesson I can't get fully into.
I'm not going to explain what the great depression was, look it up. just that it probably wasn't a coincidence that the US recovered after the president ended the gold standard. though there were a lot of other factors in play.
look at it this way, the population of the US in 1950 was about half of what it is now and the price of a new car was roughly. if the supply of currency was about the same (as the supply of gold is, relatively) then the average person would have half the amount of money. and if you wanted to make a better car, then you'd first have to somehow cut the cost in half because everybody has less money, you'd also have no money to buy more expensive parts, no one makes to more expensive parts. etc. etc. mass unemployment

>>9703502
Because I trust a decentralized ledger more than I trust central bank kikes. Keep it simple anon. Keep it simple.

>>9705069
But people don't just have X amount of money, they earn money monthly, or they trade for things.
After I buy the car, then somebody else has money, so they can buy the car. In the short term there might be a problem, but same thing with FIAT. Until the inflated money reaches more people, they don't have it.

I know you tried to explain it in a simple way, but I don't think that you have shown any real proof that a deflationary currency (bitcoin would be slightly deflationary because some coins are lost, in the future) can't work.

>>9705113
>But people don't just have X amount of money, they earn money monthly, or they trade for things.
if the money supply is fixed, and the population doubles, it's mathematically impossible for everybody to make the same amount of money. you're dividing the same amount of stuff among more people.
>but I don't think that you have shown any real proof that a deflationary currency
the great depression was enough proof to convince everybody in a position of power that it wasn't working. unless the conspiracy encompasses every single government being in on it.
>bitcoin would be slightly deflationary because some coins are lost
a currency isn't deflationary because you're losing supply, it's deflationary because it isn't being made fast enough to match the amount of new stuff being made.
there's the whole deflationary spiral you could argue. but that whole process is moot since this board is already all about hoarding bitcoin for speculation instead of spending.

>>9704338
The complete and utter retarded state of biz, wow.