/biz/ - Business & Finance

Demand. Either get competitive or move somewhere poorer.

>>9622484
Oh, I can sell you a house for cheap if you want. Will you take it? It's in the middle of nowhere.

Mortgages,(((investors))), and the ass backwards appraisal process. Brand new houses are cheaper than ones built in the 50's

Living in specific central locations has become unsustainable. We need new big cities so everyone wouldn't want to live in New York or London.

>>9622484
You are so right, it's fucked up as hell. A god damn house is vital need and shouldn't be an instrument for capitalist market. Make it as cheap as possible and make as much as you can.

This is of course obvious to humans but capitalists are not humans.

>>9622521

Sprawl is not the answer

There is already record numbers of vacant homes.

>>9622512
>Brand new houses are cheaper than ones built in the 50's
They're also built with cardboard and foam

>>9622484
the ecologists warned us about overpopulation

economists warned us about a FIRE economy

by "us" i mean your retarded boomer parents

>>9622577

Idk what your area is like but in mine they are built better because the codes have been updated since back then

>>9622583
You can't have a constantly rising economy without a constantly rising population.

>>9622583
Good luck getting elected to an office position preaching population control regulations.

Dont worry about it

>>9622484
Zero rates and longer loans. Also zero rates drove investors from bond markets to real estate.

>>9622521

>Centrally planned funney muny notes
>capitalism

>>9622686
What caused that?

Chinks?

>>9622484
Little fish work for the big fish who work for the dolphin who works for the whale who works for a great white shark who works for a...

>>9622707
>it wasn't real capitalism

>>9622484
Thanks fiat

>>9622521
I can smell the onions through my computer screen.

>>9622712
The Soviet Union started to colapse, no need anymore to please the working scum raising their wages to prevent them of going full commie.

>>9622484
just gotta wait for the trickle down bro it's comign any day now

>>9622484
Neoliberalism happened. Wealth accumulation of absurd proportion happened. Alienation of workers, producers, creators vel 'Divide and Conquer' happened. Power and reach of corporations grew immensely. It will not get better in the current system, smaller and smaller number of gigantic players will become more powerful, and we will be fighting for scraps. It really doesn't matter if our overlord will be Amazon, Alibaba, or Samsung (or some new player) we will still suffer.

interest rates broh. Rents have stayed the same since WW2. But now that interest rates are low, house prices need to go up to make rental yields the same.

>>9622599
Have you watched the Mexicans working on it? Half their nails are sticking out of the cheap wood in the wrong place. Materials are cheaper quality. To think you're getting better quality today is just depressing.

>>9622502
>demand
you mean boomers

>>9622617
You CAN'T have a constantly rising economy in a resources-limit reality, which is why fiat is going to 0 and BTC is going to infinite, as a result.

>>9622484
>you didn't buy link at 25c

>>9622686
>>9622712
>>9622793

>>9622854

I work in real estate mi amigo

The houses are better

>>9622484
the key is that humans are made to be meek. many ways the do this. the rule is this: if you want what is yours you must TAKE it from the system. they know most people have no balls fr conflict and will accept low wage... they know less than 10% will be smart enough to see the scam, and of the remaining 10/100 9/10 will be too weak to make a case for a higher wage.

>>9622686
>>9622712
>>9622793

>>9622484
The world population tripled since 1950 while the amount of residential land decreased as much of it became government/commercial. The US government owns 1/3 to 2/3 of most midwestern states now.

>>9622937
then the bosses incentivize the 1/100 guy to never go back to the 99/100 this is the division between labour and management. also the labour dumbasses have been conditioned to reject a former worker who has been promoted/ thus they become incapable of using thier consul on how to do things , like, better

>>9622943
Yeah, that too, it just doubled the supply of workers.

>>9622943
>>9623045
>45% of all women employeed in 1973
>peaked at 60% around 1999
>double the supply?

>>9623071
Since it started, not since 1955.

>>9623093

>>9622686
This anon said something happened in the mid 70s and then >>9622943 replied with that chart

Speculators is what happened.
Even populated cities with high demand have a high amount of vacant houses far more than what it’s consodered healthy, the reality is boomers in all developed countries sold the future of their kids for profits now allowing foreigners to speculate with out property, me Chang buys property in Vancouver or Sydney, sits on it for a couple years sells at 30-40% profit, also serves as a way for them to smuggle money out of china, in fact China is now tightening their regulations to stop the funneling of money out of their economy.

All developed countries have experienced unprecedented amounts of immigration into its populated cities without time for infrastructure to catch up, places like Australia take 250k new immigrants every year of which the majority go to Sydney and melbourne, the total population of the country it’s just 24 million, the infrastructure is falling behind but boomers continue to elect politicians who will keep the tune playing regardless of the damage they’re causing to future generations, any politician that hurts the price of the property boomers are so invested into would be hung.

>>9622521
That's what trailer parks are. Go live in one.

>>9622583
Overpopulation is a myth. Things will go back to normal once the first world can no longer afford to prop up the third world.

>>9622686
Now compare that to cost of living and quality of living for the same time period.

>>9622712
Automation and tech advances.

>>9622801
Trickle down is a strawman, nobody has seriously suggested it's an actual economic principal.

>>9623416
>>9623433
>>9623450
>>9623470
>>9623501
how fucking new do you have to be to post like this
fucking boomer faggot

Boomers basically. Execute everyone above the age of 32

My house only cost $43k and is three bedrooms, two baths. Stop living in libshit cities and move to the country
>what about jobs?
Just need something you can do online, whether that's trading, streaming, making furfag porn, or something more conventional like medical transcription.

>>9623816
What the fuck. Where do you live? My house was 460k!

>>9622542
>There is already record numbers of vacant homes.

This is what really gets to me. How the hell does this shit work? Cities actively demolish these abandoned homes because vagrants start squatting in them with their drug problems.

Its like they want to keep homeless people homeless so badly that they actively pay money to destroy homes instead of just giving them to the bums.

Something is really messed up here. I cant quite put my finger on it yet but I know something shady is going on.

>>9622686

conservicucks are okay with this

>>9623829
East Tennessee, really rural community

>>9622484
I'll go ahead and blame demographics/immigration/Jews because whenever I research anything bad that's the cause.

>>9622686
>>9622712
Being taken off the gold standard.

>>9623833
It's all about the boomer's finances, once homeless move in the property values drop and we can't allow that, because then anyone could afford a house and boomers would no longer have the monopoly on them that guarantees their retirement.

>>9623514

>>9622521
You're right capitalism never works we need to follow the path of all the thriving communist countries like Venezuela

>>9622484
R-type reproductive races, with host nation's that believe they have a right to resources.

>>9624115
I dont fucking care?
He (or you) still has to be a colossal newfag retarded boomer to penta post in a row

>>9623416
But there's no Starbucks or 4G. How am I supposed to let /biz/ know about the oppressive regime enslaving us if I don't have a cuckaccino and the intellectual stimulation of watching gentlemen of color discuss entrepreneurship

>>9622484
>wealth goes up
>prices go up
Welcome to reality.

>>9622647
Nobody wants to hear the truth. We have limited resources the more people there are the less each individual gets. Go visit India if you want to see the results of overpopulation. That will be every country in the future except smart countries like Japan that control their population and keep outsiders out.

>>9622712

Unions started to disappear.

>>9623139
Don't question mgtow math

>>9624208
>implying the AVAILABLE supply of workers wasn't doubled
hell considering women are slightly more then half the population it's more then doubled also
>wanting to keep women in the kitchen = mgtow
pretty sure that's the opposite

>>9622502
Not just demand. There’s NIMBY shit artificially reducing the supply as a means to protect the investment of homeowners.

>>9624164
Refer to
>>9624115

>>9624357
>>9624115
>>9623501
>>9623470
>>9623450
>>9623433
>>9623416
none of this is an argument

>>9622502

yeah... demand.... like the tens of thousands of mutts we let into the country illegally and legally every year.

>>9624121
>There is only capitalism and communism
Shut the fuck up you false dichotomy retard.
Both systems are broken and have no checks and balances.

>>9624683
Ironic, coming from le 56% face.

>>9623816
warning: many minorities are aware of this and are buying tons of properties in these places, so buy guns if you plan on doing this. if you don't believe me just wait for a georgia-bro to reply to this post

>>9624405
Sure it is, find me an actual economist that supports trickle down theory. There are none. That's my argument for that one.

My next argument is that automation and technical advances have played a part in lowering wages since traditional human contributions aren't as valuable anymore.

Another argument is that quality of living has gone way up, causing people to live comfortably and not be as competitive for a high wage.

Then in several western countries, I'm arguing that we have a population decline. The only countries with massively booming populations are usually also the ones receiving aid in different forms.

Then the next is that cheap barebones housing is easy, but nobody wants that. Which goes back to my first post in this entire thread.

Demand.

>>9623071
Doubled the supply of workers dingus. Men & women combined.

hello thanos

>>9622502
>demand

Yet there’s millions of empty home. Sounds like oversupply.

>>9623833
low interest rates means who ever owns the property can just cheaply borrow to money to cover their costs instead of lowering prices.

>>9625375
Underrated brain.

So whats the secret then, buy a tiny scrap of land, put a used shipping container on it, and live inside that? How much does a tiny piece of land in a city cost?

I would literally live in a shipping container if it had a toilet and electricity and was cheap AF.

>>9625933
Or that the millions of lower class citizens of the US have been pushed out of housing they would otherwise be able to afford by millions of illegal immigrants.

>>9626593
Devil in the details on that is getting that shipping container up to code, which can get expensive in a bigger city with lots of codes.

You can get a plot of land and a mobile home 20 minutes outside of major cities in the Midwest US for under $30k. That's less than what a lot of people pay for a car.

I own three houses but I'm still very, very unhappy

Trickle-down economics has been proven to be bullshit. Technological advances have greatly improved efficiency and productivity yet wages in Western countries have remained stagnant for over 20 years.

New wealth generated by our advancement/progress in technology isn't shared, it's hoarded. The corporations and wealthy who've espoused the virtues of trickle-down economics have been shown to be liars, manipulators, and power hungry abusers.

You have to fight now to get even an inflation-adjusted raise. Most jobs are bullshit to begin with that provide no sensation of fulfillment.

The worst thing is that the majority of the intellectual capital in our country is tied up with these meaningless jobs. The reality is that there are people in our country who could create amazing things, but they're stuck at McDonald's flipping burgers because they have no other choice. Those jobs leave you mentally and physically exhausted, so it's difficult to break away from.

And let's face it, the "American dream, you can make your own way." is propaganda. There's only so much upward movement that can be accomplished, the "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" thing is bullshit.

And this is coming from someone who's been fortunate enough to land amazing jobs where I'm comfy. I can see how much of our work culture and current economic systems are bullshit.

Oh, and fuck off with your survivor bias bullshit stories of rags to riches. It's vapor.

>>9622712
Bretton woods effectively ended with the petrodollar 1971 with the Nixon shock when the gold window was closed.

>>9626891
its still better to be rich and unhappy than poor and unhappy

>>9622484
Kikes created a thing called the Fed which legally steals from you and gives to jewish bankers.
Enjoy your inflation tax! and property tax!
Youll never be free from our control goyim

>>9622750
do you know the cost of a home in 1780 and the cost of a home pre 1913 was roughly the same?
inflation (aka the stealth jew tax) is a real bitch.
wish you all would realize this

>>9627011
Underrated post

>>9623139
this is what happened.....
enjoy competing for jobs from immigrants in the country your ancestors fought and died to own.
you all are living the results of your own inactions

>>9624683
Hey never thought of this. My cousins bought a whole county.

https://www.history.com/topics/us-immigration-since-1965

>>9622502
Demand for people who except low wages so others can live the good life?
Demand for immigrants?
Instead of just paying better wages?
How about we just start killing the competition like you instead. Lets do it. Cmon.

Central banks happened

>>9622750
>central banking is capitalism
Kill yourself

>>9622712
The answer is Nixon getting us of the gold standard

>>9627011
>Trickle-down economic
Good thing we have never actually used trickle down economics and you people are compulsive liar pieces of shit.

We've had neo keynesianism and central banker bullshit since the 70s and we've been fucked ever since.

A free market would fix our problems.

>>9627011
This post reads like you don't have the experience that you claim to have. Or you just got lucky.

t. Bootstrapper: Drive Thru Cashier > Materials Handler > Pressman > Phone Support > Graphic Designer > Web Developer > Business Owner

>>9622842
>Neoliberalism
This is a made up leftist strawman argument word.

Go back to leftypol

Daily reminder leftists are fucking liars and the real problem is central banking.

>>9622484
Owning a house is difficult if you're retarded with money. I was retarded with money for a long time and even though I make a decent wage I thought it was impossible.

I'm paying off debt with compounding payments that is going to culminate with me buying a $200,000 house and having it paid off within 13 years. It's all about not financing a $40,000 car and buying dumb shit you don't need on credit.

>>9622484
Yeah, I'm giving up hope. I always did what I should and now after several years of clinging to the delusion, I realize that I'll probably never have the money to have a house or to do whatever I want without having to worry about money and continuing to work insane days. Slowly losing it. These things never end well, but the world is pretty unfair and if you don't have a certain dose of luck, you're fucked.

>>9622484
J-E-W-S

Reminder that houses would dramatically drop in value so people could afford them if the federal reserve fucked off.

I just figured it out.

You can think of all property as being split into two groups: investment property, and consumer property.

Consumer property is things that people buy that would not be considered an investment. Candy bars, gallons of milk, vacations, your new cell phone. Basically things that will not generate a revenue stream of their own.

Investment property is things that slowly generate money over time, and will eventually pay for themselves. Real estate, stocks, bonds, etc.

So whats happening here is the federal reserve loans out trillions of dollars of printing press money to banks at low interest rates. Those banks then have to generate a return on investment greater than the interest rate the fed charges or they will end up losing money. So they have to buy investment property with it.

The problem comes from the federal reserve having no limits on how much it can make. It just prints more and more money and loans it out cheaper and cheaper until its almost free. This causes more and more cash to flood into the investment property market and causes price to rise. Increased demand (from limitless free cash) and a fixed supply (more or less) of companies and real estate means ever higher prices.

This is why the price of housing has gotten so crazy relative to the average salary. Its also why the price to earnings ratio has gotten so lopsided lately. Amazon is like 129-1 on price to earnings. Meaning it would take them 129 years to pay for themselves. 30-1 used to be considered the overbought range; that has now been thrown out the window.

The only way to bring the investment property prices back under control is to use money that is actually scarce again. This whole thing will just keep getting worse and worse and worse until it has become ludicrous. Given enough time you will see normal houses priced into the millions of dollars even though normal people only earn 20k/year.

>Continued below

>>9628876
This is also the reason that modern economics has gotten so strange. You see companies now that dont make money and openly admit they probably never will, yet they have stock prices in the billions. This is the hype economy. It doesnt matter what you actually earn, because earnings would come from selling a product, meaning a consumer property like a cell phone or something. Because consumer properties are not recieving printing press money the revenue stream pales in comparison to what the company that makes the consumer property is actually worth. Therefore the amount of money they make is entirely irrelevant to the stock price.

What actually matters is hype. Human attention. Specifically, banker and investment manager attention. If you can get the people talking about you a lot you can get bankers/hedge fund guys to invest in you, and therefore become profitable. If your company is worth 100billion+ you can just issue more shares and use the money from that to stay afloat. As long as the hype you generate brings in enough investment capital to offset your operational losses you can keep this cycle going literally forever. Twitter has been doing this for years. So have all the streaming music companies, so has snapchat, and a bunch of others. You will notice you have heard of all of these. That is because they draw a lot of attention to themselves. They must do this to maintain hype. Without hype the stock price will fall and they wont be able to sell shares to stay afloat.

(Please keep in mind there are still companies that dont follow this new model and actually make money the old fashioned way. Comcast for example posts record profits every year. Most monopolies do.)

>Continued below

>>9628888
This is a problem because it perverts the natural flow of the markets. Normally a company is forced to make something a real person would want to buy. Otherwise they would go bankrupt. This means that all companies productivity would be aligned with consumer interest. That is no longer the case. Now the only thing that matters is becoming trending, going viral. Not actually making people happy. Now they just make something flashy that a banker thinks people might use. It doesnt matter if real people actually want to use it or not. Most people hate facebook for instance. The only reason they use it is everyone else is using it and if they stop using it themselves they will be left out of the loop. No one really wants to deal with this. Facebook has become a chore. If people had to pay 10 bucks a month for facebook they would have zero users.

Now you might be thinking "but facebook makes money off advertising!" This is true. But advertising only comes from other companies that are trying to draw attention to themselves. Thats literally what ads are: "pay attention to me, im still relevant." Those companies are often getting their money from the hype economy too. So facebook and google and all the other advertising giants are all largely powered by the hype economy.

So in summary, it really was the federal reserve thats causing this. The only way to stop all of this is to move to money that cant be printed and is actually scarce. Cryptocurrency would work, or gold or something similar.

The Austrians were right the whole time.

>>9622484
https://surplusenergyeconomics.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/surplus-energy-economics-interpreting-the-post-growth-economy2.pdf

Most western countries have been contracting for the last decade on a per capita basis

In the 1970's $1.5 of debt could generate $1 in economic growth, then in the early 2000's it took $4 in debt to generate $1 in GDP growth, now it takes $6 in debt to generate $1 in GDP and debt is increasingly becoming unable to generate ANY growth at all

Most economic """growth""" is simply spending borrowed money rather than actual increases in productivity

We are reaching the end of this economic hypercycle(1820-2020)

Just bought a house..
Will pay 108% of the purchase price in taxes alone over the course of a traditional 30 year mortgage.
Will pay ~10% of the purchase price in down payment/closing costs W/ sellers concession.
This shit is literally a fucking scam, but I’d rather own my home than pay the same if not more paying off someone else’s.
>Life is scam

>>9622484
18 year old boomers ruined everything.

>>9628971
For the record, I bought below mkt
Got an awesome deal in an area that is a RELATIVELY lower taxes. This is how fukt I am in a GOOD deal. Lol

>>9624929
Better 56% than the barbaric 1%.

Fuck socialism

On paper most westerners are making more money than ever, but they are also making crippling interest payments on their massive debt even while interest payments are at the LOWEST level in human history(and are now increasing), face massive increases in energy costs(oil went from $20 barrel in 2000 to $150 in 2008), huge increases in taxes and regulations, as well as stagnating wages due to globalization

Overall the average person is losing ground, real wealth for westerners peaked around the year 2000 any maybe even ion the 1970's depending on how you want to define it

>>9623833
Something shady is going on, you're right. They want to disenfranchise as much of the global population as possible. But why? NWO? We're already all under their control.

The truth is, they are afraid of what is to come. The moment when their house of cards comes crumbling down. When their paper and digital money becomes worthless (which it will). At that time, they want the common man and woman to be as weakened as possible. Because once they lose their resources, their status, their control...They will be helpless. Better to face a weakened opponent than an intact one.

Within 2 years, I believe this event that brings everything crashing down will occur.

The only things of value will be those that aid and assist in the survival of the human species.

>>9627316
Yeah, you can't even begin to work on your happiness problem until you solve the being poor problem.
There are plenty of reasons I'm unhappy. No matter though, I know I will have to gain my financial security or I will have pretty much no shot at being happy. That's just the way of the world.

violent increases in demand from subsidized debt and workforce expansion

>>9628485
Can somebody please play devil's advocate on this one and tell me why I'm supposed to be ok with this? I've butted my head up against the central banking question for a long while, and the best I can come up with is that there must be some systemic reason for why we have to kick this can down the road, otherwise the economy reverts to depression era shithole again?

I live in Vancouver. Guess I'll die.

>>9622484
>Productivity higher than ever
Means that more people are working minimum wage jobs
>humanity has never been wealthier.
this is cancelled out by the high cost of living combined with stagnant wages, and doesn't take income inequality into account. More lies.

>>9622484
banks repossessed millions of houses during the mortgage meltdown in 07-09. they have limited the supply of homes in the market to stabilize prices to what they see fit. couple this with foreign investors parking their cash in properties and overheated markets in productive cities and you have a perfect shitstorm like we have today.

>>9628876
>>9628888
>>9628892
This

I'm afraid to think of how things will go in few years since everything is as absurd as latest BTC bubble when everything was sparkling like fireworks. There's just way too much BS in nowadays economy, so much it's hard to believe someone really believes in it like something normal. It can't go forever like this