/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9443192
>make 10-20k a year doing shit
>property costs 200k to buy
>takes 10 years to break even

>>9443270
But if you take out a loan you could be making money your first year.

>>9443270
>properly costs 200k to buy
>takes 10 years to break even
>property worth 300-400k after 10 years
>Rent goes up every year
>YFW you actually made $10-15k/year profit for doing relatively nothing, plus own an appreciating asset.

Don't listen to the naysayers, renting is the best form of passive income.

>>9443270
The underlying asset generally appreciates in value, so after 20 years, if you sell, you’ve made 100-200K + profit from sale. Brainlets will always be poor

desu senpai i don't know shit about rentals. i just say something stupid so you guys get mad and post real information.

rental property owner here. don’t do it. and i’m in small town USA, 99.7% caucasian, no college students.

hassle.

>>9443320
>be 2008
>housing markets never crash

also the real estate market is in a bubble

>>9443320
assuming, ya know, crypto doesn't destroy the banking industry :) fingers crossed

it looks a lot better on paper than it is in reality, unless you're cut out for it. if you use leverage (and everyone has to to be efficient unless you inherited your shit) there is a lot more risk than it looks like. you also have a stationary asset subject to taxation, lawsuits, seizure, etc. too much hassle and risk when you can move your wealth around with you with a 12 word seed

>>9443363
Please explain why it’s such a hassle. Is it the tenants you deal with that make it a problem or other aspects of it?

>>9443376
>Be 2018
>Housing market better than ever
>Time doesn't always result in your property being worth more

Unless you're like 70 years old, even in the event of a housing market crash like 2008 (which we haven't seen since the great depression, so once every 100 years or so), you just wait 10 years and you're back up on your $, plus have still been mortgage free thanks to renting and maybe even pocketing cash.

Meanwhile, during a market crash like that, NOTHING is a good investment, so you could either have your money sit in the bank, or lose it in the stock market and wait for the stock market to bounce back (actually took longer than housing prices), at which point you own stocks with max 5% dividends which won't be anything near what rent is getting you.

>>9443285
It always amazes me how people can say that them going 200k into debt somehow "makes them gain money". No wonder the debt bubble is so horrendous.

>>9443392
kek. Anyone who believes this is going to sit on the sidelines until they literally can not afford property anywhere except middle America fucko rednecksville. USA cities have high demand property of which there is very little of. In the cities where there is space to build, they're building like CRAZY, and all of those homes and apartments are getting bought in super short time frames. Within the next 10 years no one will own property in NYC except millionaires because nothing can be built there and everything will be worth $1MM+. In cities like Portland or Nashville where the real estate market is growing like crazy, everyone who bought 7 years ago has now doubled their money, and everyone buying now will have at least a 50% increase on their housing within the next 5 years. If those cities continue to grow and more homes are turned into town houses or entire blocks demo'd and turned into apartment buildings, houses will easily be worth millions just for the property they're sitting on.

Foreign investors are snatching up real estate at unprecedented rates. The reason the housing market is so insane in most major US cities is because no one is selling, and there's no room left to build.

>>9443308
>>9443320
Yeah pretty much where I am at. Of course you have to spend money to make money, but this seems like such a good move. Why dont more people do it?

>>9443520
wages have to go up 50% with healthcare costs and interest rates staying flat relative to them in order for that to happen. as it stands most people are stretched pretty thin. where does the money come from to support 150% of the mortgage payment with a further 50% price increase if everything else stays the same?

>>9443520
how can you write all that and still not realize we're in another housing bubble?

>>9443363
Sarcasm I assume

>>9443192
A guy I know got his b.s. in petrol engineering some years back. Invested his money in rentals and now makes tons a year with over 12 paid off houses hes renting out. He fell for the marriage meme with damaged goods though. She's going to rape his empire with her harpy claws.
If you have the capital and know the rental market, it isn't a bad idea. If i get crypto rich its one of my plans.

>>9443569
well for one, the only reason I havent done it already is its expensive. I live in Seattle so just to get a regular house its 600-700k, 20% down means 120,000 cash down.

And the thing is even if you have 120,000 cash, its not gunna win you the bid, cuz some other chinese guy has already bid 25% over asking price in cash.

The table is so skewed in the favor of landlords in this country (deductability of debt, FNMA, GNMA etc) you have to be a complete retard to not realize that you should buy property and lever up ASAP.literally retards can do it, not realizing that its the slanted table theyre playing on and not their own skill.

>>9443192
>Rent out room to responsible looking white russian.
>Russian stops paying rent.
>Russian knocks up wife and has a child. >Legally allowed to stay in that home for a year.
>Continues to not pay rent.
>Every year has another child.
>4 years go by.
>Couple and their 4-5 children go back to russia leaving holes in walls and pleanty of property damage.

>>9443192
Stocks have continuously outperformed real estate and REITs over history.

If you take out a huge loan to buy the property you rent out, then you are leveraging and there is a lot of risk in that. Nobody knows for sure, but a market crash could come.
If you own the property, then you don't have much to worry.

The only reason your property is appreciating in value is because world population is rising. We will reach a tipping point where populations will not be maintainable and people wiol stop having children or wars will break out and property values will tank.

>>9443647
total return bro, you need to factor in lots more.

there's the first 2 million cap gains are tax free.
Mortgage interest deduction.
Good collateral for another loan, lever up.
Also, long studies like that have mad survivorship bias.

Anyway, forget all of that. Its not the returns, its the risk/return ratio that matters. Sure maybe stocks have outperformed real estate, but have they done so while bearing less risk? Likely not.

>>9443630
Can you explain that last paragraph?

>>9443520
You must be trolling, it's literally a "muh new paradigm" moment you are spouting out here.

>foreign investors
Most of them are Chinese and guess what, the Chinese economy might currently be in the biggest bubble of all times. If their bubble bursts, then they can start mass selling their overseas investments.

>>9443737
I legit think there is a bubble going on myself. Thats the one downside I see to rentals. If it pops, all apartments are going away. But soceity might collapse if that happens so maybe shouldnt worry other than spending some profits on guns/food.

>get paid $2k/month
>Have to spend $700/month on property tax + $100ish on water + $150ish on heating
>Tenant stops paying rent
>Have to spend 3 months going through the courts getting them out of your place
>REKTs the place before they leave
>Have to spend $5k fixing the place up before you can relist.

Places with high rents are usually cities with favorable laws for tenants. Also not only will you be paying a higher property tax rate since your property is a rental but you'll also be paying capital gain taxes.

OP if you want to make money on real estate just invest in a REIT. You'll still be getting the profits from renting out but with none of the headaches.

>>9443713
with pleasure fellow biztard.

Basically the US economy is designed to manufacture and sell debt. The key to realizing this is that Debt payments are deductible (ie, they are subtracted from revenue before net income and taxes payable) whereas EQUITY PAYMENTS ARE NOT.

For this reason, there is an "ideal leverage ratio" for companies that minimizes the after tax cost of financing themselves. Basically the way the law is written, you are incentivized to take out as much debt as possible to wipe out ur "income" on paper, so you dont pay any taxes ever. Meanwhile you use the debt to buy assets (like other companies) that are taxed as "capital gains" rates which are smaller than "orginary income" rates on corporate earnings.

So literally, entreprenuers are incentivized to go find a bank, any bank, that will lend them money. It used to be bankers had to find productive investments and deploy capital --- the way the law is written, productive capital finds bankers. The tax laws do their jobs for them.

ANd this is just part 1 of the slanted table.

Part 2 has to do w Fannie and Freddie. Basically the "slant" there is that without FNMA, there would be no secondary market for 30 yr residential mortgages. Back in the day, Bankers were members o f the community, they knew the ppl they loaned money to. They monitored their credit/credit risks. Now bankers just write a loan, and sells it to ppl who package it and sell it to FNMA. So the banker who doesnt want to wait around for 30 years can flip the shit now. If there was no FNMA WHO THE FUCK WOULD INVEST IN A 30 YEAR MORTGAGE. MUHUHAHAHHAHA its laughable.

continue w questions I'll be back later to explain more.

>>9443192
REITs are generally easier and give similar yields (assuming no clever tax strategies with real estate)

Otherwise the house is a form of diversification kind of like buying precious metals.

>>9443839
REIT ?
what is that ?

I have two rentals and I gross about £1300pcm - that's after all mortgage, tax, repairs, maintenance, etc., etc.

Very easy really. If I ever get enough money from crypto I'll get more. I live in an expensive area which is a bit shit, but elsewhere it's piss easy. Here you need a 25% deposit, that's about it.

>>9444444
fucking wasted go kys. link $1000k eoy

>>9444444
Ps. LINK $1000 EOY

>>9444444
i got rentals too.. one duplex and a condo.. easy as fuck

>>9443583
>where does the money come from to support 150% of the mortgage payment

immigrants. let me explain to you the baby boomer """"growth"""" model

>import millions of shitskins and give them welfare
>people compete and bid for houses
>home prices go up
>wow such economic growth

welcome to boomerville

>>9443644
Don’t you have a mafia to turn to for help? Geez.

>>9443376
>time in the market vs timing the market
>not buying OVERLEVERAGED assets in shitty areas

hmmmm

>>9444222
Checked.

>>9444444
wasted get, but it could've been worse - could've been about link.

>>9444634
sick bro, where can I get some overleveradged assets?

>>9443270
>Not understanding the tax benefits and cashless expenses such as depreciation
Get a load of this brainlet

>>9444222
I wish I could sell packaged debts to FNMA. Interesting stuff.
Also, seems like a strange and counter logical system from the get go, selling debts.
What would you advise a young 24 year old with no debt, large savings, but making barely minimum wage to do in order to leverage up to a piece of land (commercial or residential)? Which I would like to further leverage for more land.

>>9444222
can you advise any good books on this?

>>9443192
The S&P in an average year outperforms rental property roi.

>>9443192
Sure, doing this during the biggest credit bubble in history will make you money. But during the coming deflation part, you'd be absolutely fucked (credit deflation is already baked in now).

>>9443192
Because:
> time (finding great deals to buy, paperwork, fixing things, finding tenants etc.)
> risk
> opportunity cost (the average return of rentals isn't higher than the stock market).

Rentals can be very good, but it's by no means easy to get 10%+ real returns in the long run.

>>9444222
>Basically the US economy is designed to manufacture and sell debt. The key to realizing this is that Debt payments are deductible (ie, they are subtracted from revenue before net income and taxes payable) whereas EQUITY PAYMENTS ARE NOT.
Is this only true for businesses? I've never heard that debt is deductible from net profit... if that's true, why can't I deduct my student loan debt from my taxable income?

>>9444319
>gib money to someone else
>he buys real estate and collects money
>???
>profit

>>9443192
www.biggerpockets.com
Thank me later, anon.

We will make it!

>>9444804
You must forgive me for being vague, cuz i rly am an investment manager and so let me be clear -- this is not investment advice --- it is generalized advice about how to minimize taxes legally.

First things first you need to build your credit. Get a credit card w 2% cashback, and use it for all of your expenses. Not only will it start building you credit and earn you points, it will help put all the data about your spending habits in 1 place so you can start to analyze what the fuck you are wasting so much money on.

2. Get all your tax advantages
- Roth IRA, IRA, 401(k) match

3. Save money until you can buy house. Ideally use an FHA program to get favorable terms, low rate/down payment. FHA has programs for 1st time homebuyers and for ppl who are living in a multifamily home they are also renting out (ie live in landlords)


Get property ASAP, use the mortgage interest deduction, stop hemhorraging money to rent payments, build equity, which is taxed at lower cap gains rates. Remember, the first 200k profit on flipping a home is tax free.

>>9444914
Yes this is basically only true for businesses, except in special cases like mortgage interest, which is explicitly allowed to be deducted (although trump changed it a little i think).

That along should make you wonder why the fuck this particular expense is deductible. Hint: The table is slanted.

>>9445172
>>9445205
Are you familiar with taxes in general? Hypothetical sort of question: If I have let's say $1 million in crypto but I can't prove the source (ancient mining proceeds but they were only sent to me recently, for example), am I forced to pay short-term capital gains, AKA income tax rate on it? What happens if I claim long-term capital gains but can't really demonstrate it? I assume I'd be audited and then taxed at the short-term rate, right?

>>9443569
Because they are stuck on the rental treadmill and will never able to cough up the tens of thousands required for a down payment.

I'm about to buy a brickhouse building in a downtown of a major city in Massachusetts for a massively reduced priced and will likely cashflow about $6,000/mo for an initial investment of $40,000. Seems pretty good.

>>9445266
Great question. I have had this quandry as well.

I truly wonder about the mining thing -- how can it be that you mined them forever ago but they were only sent to you recently? Ideally you should have a txn hash for the mining reward or whatever to your mining pool. So long as you have that, you've got cover for your ass.

TLDR, think of yourself as the IRS. You want to maximize tax collected and minimize tax collection expense. You're gunna start w the people whose returns are the potentially greatest cash cow for you. I'd assume baseline that you dont get audited at all, even if you claim LT cap gain on 1$ million. They'd be shocked you owned up to the LT gain at all, not pissed you didn't declare it short term.

TLDR again. Unless you are really, really megawhale, I dont think it matters at all. Claim on your return that you got the coins when you claim you did, and pay the LT rate. Likely you'll never hear about ti again.

>>9445365
>I truly wonder about the mining thing -- how can it be that you mined them forever ago but they were only sent to you recently? Ideally you should have a txn hash for the mining reward or whatever to your mining pool. So long as you have that, you've got cover for your ass.
"ideally," but in this hypothetical situation, I don't have that

I'm just wondering about the worst case scenario or how to side-step this issue. I suppose claiming LT and just waiting to see what happens is the way to go, I just wondered what would happen if they did decide to pursue it.

>>9445402
ya they'll just ask for evidence. If you have the txn hash or something then its evidence.

the only way you could be mining w.o having the txn history is if you engaged in a pvt agreement w a partner, right? Like you'd go halfsies and he generated all the txns and finally paid you your half recently?

Am I mistaken? Plz help me understand why the fuck you think you're entitled to a cost basis when you dont have a txn to prove it? That is the exact question the IRS will ask you, and if you cant answer it to me, I doubt your explanation will satisfy them.

>>9445728
Okay, scenario: you do freelance work under the table and are paid in bitcoin. Technically you should have claimed this and paid tax on it when you received it, but let's say it came from some kind of smart contract that only paid you when you called the "receive funds" function, so essentially you are 'paid' during some market peak, like when Bitcoin was worth $19k. You get paid 10 BTC or $190k. So following the letter of the law conservatively, you could conceivably have a tax liability of let's say $57. However, that bitcoin is only worth about $85k right now. This is just one scenario I made up on the fly.

I'm just trying to understand how it works in practice--as far as I can ascertain it seems like they just need an explanation, but something like a txid can be manufactured. For example, in the above scenario, you could just mix or tumble the BTC and wait a year to come up with that.

However, you'd still owe those taxes for that year, so your cost basis claim isn't valid unless you paid that year, right? So it's a conundrum

>>9445728
>>9445850
Beyond this, I want to know what you think the worst case scenario is. My understanding is that the maximum tax liability you have in practice is income tax rate on whatever you actually cash out. Right?

>>9443270
10 years to break even is fine. You get a new rental every year pretty soon the cash flow starts outpacing the debt. This is called acquiring cash-flow generating assets. Have you guys even played the game monopoly lol

>>9446167
Who's going to give you the loans to acquire that much property at once unless you're already rich? A mortgage for a single house requires you to have a steady income of 3x the monthly payment.

>>9445877
yeah you'd be quite fucked cuz of how they treat crypto as pvt property. Every time it changes hands you have to mark it to market, so you fucked.

Ideally youd have evidence of the pvt agreement (email?) then even if you donthave the txn i think you have some standing.

>>9446481
>yeah you'd be quite fucked
meaning...? Again, worst case scenario = income tax rate as far as I can tell

>>9446346
It's almost like you can buy an income producing asset income to offset conventional mortgage requirements. Instead of buying a single family, buy a 4 plex. Don't wait to pay it off. As soon as you have enough equity 1031 that bitch up to an 8/16 unit. Rinse/repeat

>>9443270
>takes 10 years to break even
But if that's in your savings, then it shouldn't hurt you too much. Now it's just more income for you.

>>9446498
ya the ST cap gain is basically the same as the income tax rate.

>>9446583
this is absolutely how it is done.

this is how TRUMP created his empire. Its how Marriot created it's chain. Everybody. This is how you do business. Take debt, use to get assets as collateral for more debt. Rinse, repeat.

>>9443270
Exactly
Its perfect

>>9443433
>Housing market better than ever
That means it's already in bubble mode again.
The crash in 2008 was small-peas compared to the global economic crash that will happen within the next 1-10 years. They kicked the can down the road and didn't fix nearly enough of the systemic issues that caused the bubbles in the first place. In most countries, they are already or am now scaling back the few good measures there were against another bubble and pop.

>>9443363
There are worse fates than yours

>>9443376
Only matters if you need borrowed money to run it
Only people who didnt loae anything were those qho actuallly owned the property

>>9446702
>ya the ST cap gain is basically the same as the income tax rate.
will they require proof for a cost basis for short-term capital gains? or can someone just claim that their basis is zero and leave it at that?

Anons I have ~$20k to my name.
What is a reasonable amount to start with? Any good resources to look at while getting started?
Are you guys not afraid of getting fucked by destructive tenants, refusing to leave, other weird shit?

HMOs / Housing Multiple Occupancy. That's you're cash cow.

1. Buy 3 bed house 200k, with 25% deposit (50k), 75% mortgage
2. Spend 100k to extend and convert to 5 ensuite rooms
3. Rent each room 600 per month each
4. 3000 per month, 32400 per year (with 90% occupancy)
5. Remortgage property at new valuation of 400k with same 75% mortgage 400 * (6 months after you bought it) to release 150k equity
6. Use 150k to do it all over again

I'm 28 done this 4 times over the last 3 years.
I started an online business when I was 22 to save up enough to do this.
The passive income brings me in 90k per year.
I will be on 300k passive income age 30.

Cash out on your crypto gains, property isn't going anywhere.

>>9447138
Good shit anon steps 5. and 6. really sealed the deal.
idk about 2. but only because I don't think I have enough capital. One day. What was your online business if you don't mind me asking?

>>9447138
Let's say I have about $100k in cash but no regular income, what sort of cash flow would I need to make this happen? Do you have to have a great job to keep the ball rolling in the beginning?

>>9447138
This doesn't work in every state and the people you deal with are not typical A and B class renters. They're usually college kids with no responsibilities. I can't do this at ASU, there can only be certain number of people on lease that aren't related. I could structure like commercial business, but don't think added stress is worth marginal profitability. Great idea in South and Midwest though!

>>9447195
it's all about return per room.
and to be fair, I rounded that up to 100k, I actually spent about 75k
fyi. I'm working in £
Say on 90% occupancy at 600 per month, you get 6480 per year per room.

you want rooms to cost no more than 54,000 each to be on a sweet 12% roi

200k for a 3 bed (in my area) works out to be 66k per room. not the end of the world. but spending that extra 75k (if you have it) makes each room - it just protects yourself against any slight changes increase in interest rates

>>9447363
>Great idea in South and Midwest though!
Why does this work better in the South and the Midwest? I'm in the Midwest and like the general concept.

>>9447247
Buy 30/40k condos in cash. Be wary of HoA. Cash flow maybe 5k per a year. Rinse and repeat until you want to start leveraging.

>>9447247
buy the house first, and let it out without doing any work if you have to.

in my area of the UK, house prices have been (were) going up. I'd rather secure an asset at a fixed price, because the cost of refurbishment wont change

you want to do the work tho to appeal to more upmarket clients - the places I buy are shitholes, hence why I spend so much

>>9447379
>>9447393
Oh, I just realized you're in Britain/England, so this might not be applicable to the US

>>9447399
>Buy 30/40k condos in cash
Where the hell can you buy a condo for $30k? Or is that with a mortgage (30k down)?

>>9447363
i'm not familiar with US markets to be honest

>>9447399
I wouldn't get flats which you can make changes too / increase rooms.

In the UK I get 3 bed terraced houses that I own the freehold for, ideally they are 5m wide terraces
so I can optimise the floorplan

>>9447457
fuck, not even pajeet but can't type english properly

you basically want properties where you can edit the floorplan and get more rooms in.

>>9443455
> What is time and investor horizon?

>>9447138
Anyone ITT know if a similar model is workable in the US? What are the potential pitfalls?

>>9447138
>>9447506
Also, is this the equivalent of a duplex/four-unit here in the states?

>>9443455
>It always amazes me how people can say that them going 200k into debt somehow "makes them gain money". No wonder the debt bubble is so horrendous.
leverage debt to increase your bottom line, what's the problem?

>>9447439
Foreclosures. Auctions. "Not the best neighborhoods". I live in Phoenix and started on 35k condos.

>>9443455
other peoples money is cheap if you know how to use it

>>9447566
>Foreclosures. Auctions. "Not the best neighborhoods". I live in Phoenix and started on 35k condos.
Property is pretty cheap here but whenever I see a sub-50k property it's a true beater. The average single family home in a nice but affordable area is about $120k. I could get a place in Detroit for $30k but it's utter shit and will be destroyed by the "people" there.

>>9447393
To put it simply. With no disrespect intended. Midwest and south is poor. You find more people renting rooms than houses. Single room in AZ are on AirBNB or in the "ghetto". Families sharing houses are more common in South. Real estate is also a hell of a lot cheaper so you lose less on vacancies and evictions. Just make sure your state has favorable landlord laws.

>>9443308
>he thinks the housing market is going to hold its value
>he thinks it isn't just one massive shell game

God I can't wait for this house of cards to come crumbling down.

>>9443192

>get forced to take shitskin tenants or get sued by the state
>they destroy your property
>insurance doesnt cover everything
>foreclosed

what actually happens

>>9447593
You're not living in it. Ideal renter for me with that condo would be immigrant family looking for cheap fixer upper. Look up a town called Guadalupe on Google Maps. It's a 5 minute drive from the most populated University in the United States, but the citizens will live in plywood shacks. Everyone has a different view of America. Your 50k beater is an immigrants American dream.

>>9447656
where does this happen?

>>9447661
That just sounds like a recipe for problem tenants. Am I wrong?

>>9447619
>population keeps growing
>b-but the housing market is a bubhel guise xDD
Poorfags and their delusions

>>9447695
>prices are artificially held up after 08' and the market was never allowed to actually correct
>not smoke and mirrors

>>9447663
anywhere in the USA with bored lawyers and renting laws
you aren't allowed to pick your tenants, as long as they show proof of being able to pay
if you deny them an open rental you stand a chance of being sued

>>9447738
>doesn't realize that correction isn't necessary when people chase back in

>>9443839
How is a REIT different than a stock?

>>9447738
>prices are artificially held up after 08' and the market was never allowed to actually correct
houses in my area lost 70-80% of their value, how is that not a correction?

>>9447769
Is there a strategy to protect against this?

>>9446803
Exactly this. Its literally why we're all here.

>>9447860
yeah...
pray, and harass shitty tenants in every legal way possible until they leave, then sue them for damaging the unit

>>9447847
See>>9447867
Banks buying up property with tax payer money isn't a market correction.

>>9444222
Thanks for response, but what does this mean for me with only like 20k in ready cash? I got excellent credit rating if that matters.

>>9447904
This horrifies me. I wonder if I'm better off just keeping my money in crypto and forgetting about it for a few years.

>tfw leaf

I cant believe the fucking insane prices these chinese people are paying over here.

>>9448307
CHINKED

>>9444842
S&P market exposure doesn't get you equity in any underlying asset, which is the main benefit (along with tax deductions and potential cashflow) of owning a property.

literally nobody in this thread rents out or even has a mortgage, this is larp town

>>9447673
Because they're poor they're problem? I have better luck with immigrant families than college kids. You can run credit check, don't lease to someone you wouldn't normally just to put tenant in place and you need the money. Always better to wait and verify a good tenant than rush a shitty one in.

>>9447835
Usually has higher dividends since by law REIT have to give 90% of their profits to shareholders. Also they tend to be more stable than a lot of stocks since their business model is just renting shit out. Of course some REITs are more volatile than others like a reit that deals with retail tenants will be more volatile than some a reit that rents industrial spaces to manufacturing companies.

>>9448389
>literally nobody in this thread rents out or even has a mortgage, this is larp town
Why do you say this?

>>9443192
>>Have to fix a sink pipe maybe once a year

You wish.

My brother rents out houses and it's only half as passive as you expect them to be.

He has to replace shit like the washer/dryer, refrigerator, and every other appliance when they break. Oh and they break much faster than normal appliances, because renters don't respect your property at all.

He also has to deal with retarded tenants. For example, some lady demanded that he cut down some dead tree branches in the back yard, because "they could fall and hurt someone". So he hired some dude to cut them down.

You also have to constantly look for new tenants, if you are doing short term rentals, which you should because they earn way more profit. If you can't find new tenants, you don't get paid.

He used HomeAway to find tenants, then they changed some sort of algorithm, and he couldn't get new tenants for several months.

tldr: There is no such thing as easy money, especially not from real estate.

>>9447133
Maybe someone more experienced than myself can chime in, but at $20k your best bet is probably an FHA loan if you're buying a primary residence. If you're looking to rent out, you can either partner up or look for something around $100k that's a fixer-upper so you can put 20% down on it. Fix it up, re-appraise it, rent it out for cashflow or at least break-even on the mortgage payment, then cash-out refinance to get money out of the property and repeat this process. If you want more info on that, google "BRRRR" method (buy, repair, rent, refi, repeat).

This is all assuming you're in the US, too.

>>9446803
Yeah, Ive been waiting for a bubble since 2012, idk how long I can wait.

>>9448564
You should have been seriously waiting since 2016 at a minimum. Not to say the bailouts and everything surrounding the "recovery" wasn't fraudulent, but typically the market cycle is 8-10. So at this time we're overdue.

>>9447566
Are foreclosures anything special to aquire? Do I just show up or how tf do I buy them?

Why doesnt all real estate people buy up foreclousres?

>>9447534
Yes. US "equivalent" is mutli-family units like you described.

i don't know about you guys, but within the next 10-20 years 25% of the population of my country will die of old age. according to certain surveys the houses here were overpriced by 40% in 2014, and they have grown 20% every year since. Add in massive amounts of supply and virtually no demand, i believe i will get a house dirt cheap if i wait.

>>9448521
because that's what people sound like
yes you make some money by renting out but the build up is huge and if you have to take a loan to buy a place only to rent it afterwards the margins are way smaller than warrants the effort
plus, once you already have one loan to pay for the first place, you'll need yet another one to pay for the one you're actually living in, and since banks aren't completely fucking retarded anymore (in europe at least), you can't just yolo borrow two home's worth of money

so it's not the "make free money xD" shit people are implying it is

but yea sure if you have a few 100k eurodollars just literally lying around yea you can buy a place and rent it out, which is a decently comfy way of making money; srsly though once you have that kind of money there's a lot of ways to make those margins from it

>>9448681
>srsly though once you have that kind of money there's a lot of ways to make those margins from it
What are some viable alternatives in your view?

>>9447934
see >>9448549

>>9448698
literally crypto, managed stocks or what are they called where you just give someone a pile of money and they give you an easy 5-10% with minimal risks, if you're really not in a hurry you even invest in bonds
don't get me wrong, real estate is very hard to get wrong, and is probably what I'd do too because it's the one that I know a bit more about
>and crypto

I do plan to rent out my place once I pay off my mortgage but that's gonna be like 8 more years

>>9448782
I'll probably keep my capital parked in crypto, then. Real estate sounds like it requires a huge cash flow, anyway, and it's not as though I can actually get a mortgage right now.

>>9448564
It will crash when you will FOMO in don't worry

>>9448529
Sounds like your brother is a slum lord

>>9447904
I rent through airbnb and dont need to worry about this

>>9448870
>Real estate sounds like it requires a huge cash flow
yea no shit
easiest way to get an idea for prices is to look up rents in an area and then buying prices in that area
figure out what the monthly payment would be for a loan to buy, deduct that from the supposed rent you'd get (remember rent get taxed quite a bit too), and that's your profit

>>9448549
>BRRRR" method
Thanks for this anon. I'm in West coast US and I'm eyeing properties in the 100k-180k range. Honestly I am mostly worried about drug addicts fucking up my property / creating a nuisance. I don't have the capital to fall back on yet if things get fucked. Best I've found so far was a 4 unit complex for 200k in WA....