/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>>>r9k you fucking pleb

Sage

At Least you won't be sitting in hot asshole soup in a boat with two rentals just so you can take pictures and brag to your 603 internet (((friends))).

t. sour grape connoisseur

>>9355025
Depends what you think as young, but man can still be in prime well into his 30s and 40s

>>9355025
I mean if you're young and handsome you don't need money to get laid.

If you're old, ugly AND poor however you're gonna have a rough time.

>>9355025

That guys is in his 30's, close to 40 probably..

>>9355025
OP is a poorfag and wants to get rich for the women and pools.
Not gonna make it.

>I only want money to impress women.
Weak and pathetic, no wonder women hate you.

>>9355088
99% of people won't unless they have model genes.

>>9355380
If youre rich you can hire pros for skin- and haircare, food and training.

>>9355380
It's really not that hard if you stay active and take care of yourself. Most people just stop giving a fuck after they have kids though.

>>9355380

>>9355483
What data is this based on?

>>9355468
>It's really not that hard if you stay active and take care of yourself. Most people just stop giving a fuck after they have kids though.
Your priorities change, it's not "stop giving a fuck"

wchu say nigga?

>>9355647
this is ridiculous
yeah, I want his money, but the hand tats and all of that... jesus fucking christ, what an absolute faggot
he's basically LARPing as a nigger while living as a european

>>9355025
that is a retarded fucking pool

>>9355647
plus if you're 20 now and you for argument sake become rich at 50 then the anti aging technology will just be out of this world

>>9355665
>not tattooing your own face on your back
come on bro

>>9355691
>>not tattooing your own face on your back
>come on bro
lol
does he do it for instagram recognition?

>>9355530
>Your priorities change, it's not "stop giving a fuck"
That's basically the same thing.

Kinda like how after middle school, your "priorities change" and you stop giving a fuck about Pokemon cards.

>>9355505
Even underage girl think more about men in their 30s.
While guys think more of 16-22 girls.

>>9355700
>Kinda like how after middle school, your "priorities change" and you stop giving a fuck about Pokemon cards.
>he's not sitting on unopened first edition booster boxes and gem-mint first edition shadowless charizards
lol pleb

>>9355717
Okay but where's the data to back this up?

>>9355721
Nigga I had a first ed Charizard and I'm kicking myself now when I see how much they're worth.

>>9355088
Fact 1) you will not be rich in your 30s and 40s
Fact 2) your chances of being bald by then are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than being rich by then therefore its over

Inb4 various hairloss copes.

>>9355380
Thats bullshit. Physical prime for men is 23-34 years old PLUS. Sure you can be a 20 year old beast deadlifting 7pl8s, but outside of sports, this is where you want to be. I've seen a 70 year old deadlift 3pl8s no problem which is more than any of you can lift. If you're a normie and you've never trained before you can start late and still have an awesome peak at 40 no question

>>9355807
at this point, going bald is the last manly thing you can do without going to jail

>>9355717
>Even underage girl think more about men in their 30s.
LMAO stop fucking coping. A guy on his early 20s with MM looks working in McDonalds has an higher SMV for prime females than any other copealternative you want to mention.

>>9355811
Back to /fit/ you chowda head

>>9355822
How is having shitty genetics manly you dumb fuck.

>>9355840
do you just have no sense of humor whatsoever? you come across as severely autistic and unpleasant to be around, friendo

>>9355811
>he thinks prime means lifting more plates
rofl

>>9355845
Im actively balding, no such thing as humor anymore.

>>9355885
you'll be ok

>>9355404
For the last time you coping mongs:

YOU
CANNOT
BUY
BONE

>>9355908
From invisible to prime females to invisible to prime females.

>>9355934
I think you're actually projecting desu

>>9355944
Is this how you cope?

>>9355953
so your cope is just shitting on other people because you feel bad about yourself?

>>9355025
this man is a wristlet don't tell me he does not roid

>>9355870
It does, little boy

why is /biz/ infested with absolute nigger tier mentalities?
surely well adjusted whites dont seriously believe that there's only a singular, animalistic purpose in life
>OOGA BOOGA GOTTA GET (((PRIME PUSSY)))

>>9355757
do you live under a rock?

t. 30 year old boomer finishing his B.S. degree. The hot teachers swoon, and although theres a few girls that are uncomfortable, even most of the 18 year olds are more interested in me than their peers. And I'm tall but I don't workout(lanklet) and I dress like a scrounge. probably a 7/10 among my peers, but here I offer something that makes even the 22 year old "chad"s look like little boys. Maturity. Wisdom. Security. Killer Instinct. Experience. Things women actually want.

>>9355025
About 70% of billionaires inherit their money directly or indirectly. In europe, millionaires to ultra net worth about 80% are inherited, italy and denmark are highest. It is not uncommon that in italy the fortune has been built over 700 years in family.

In usa only about 50% of ultra net worths are inherited because the country is so young and new business go to there such as silicon valley

>>9355914
yet

>>9355885
get a hairpiece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdfPvy_LJGQ&t=1s

Hair transplant is pretty cheap, you know.

>>9355025
>inherit millions at 25
>be diagnosed with incurable cancer a few months later
Money isn't everything.

>>9357521
it's expensive
>>9357526
true

>>9355025
>pool
>on yacht
>in the middle of the see of water

>>9357042
>30 years old
>Boomer
Nigga you ain't no boomer.

>>9355757
>data to back this up
anon please
get to your 30s and see
i was a virgin loser thorough my 20s and now i'm in a relationship with a college girl (still in highschool first time we shagged)
and unlike some men who acquire status or money and mistake their dating success for that, i was a poor neet when we met
the ideal male figure is about 30-35 years old. that's the image you're fed everywhere in entertainment, regardless if they say the character is 17 or 50 they act and look like a 32 years old man
this particular age range is just the prime spot for that combination of confidence, maturity, security, physical prowess, body hair... in short manliness

>>9357042
Nobody cares about your anecdotal evidence. Unless you have hard data to back up your statements then fuck off.

I've yet to see a single study that show that women are attracted to older men.

>>9357695
>the ideal male figure is about 30-35 years old
What are you basing this on? Show me a study or something otherwise you're just talking out your ass.

BTW I'm 32 and my success with women hasn't changed dramatically as I reached my 30s. Most 30 year olds are married with kids and not exactly getting laid left and right.

>>9357587
sharks retard.

>>9357587
>pool
>would rather be in polluted ocean with shitfish and two bitches who can speed off with your boat

>>9357587
it's a 'fuck you' thing for children of rich people (and minorities), like putting dvd players in your headrests

>>9357729
Maybe they like them because they're rare. Just making a guess though, dunno if it's true.

>>9355665
>he's basically LARPing as a nigger while living as a european
Call me when you've realized this is what women want

>>9355691
This is so Italian it needs to be singing Nessun Dorma driving a drop top Ferrari along the Sicily coastline in a gunfight with the carabinieri getting a blowjob from a nice catholic girl after having rubbed out the last straight judge in the area on orders from the don heading home for mama's lasagna.

>>9357530
>Expensive
Only if you were retarded enough to not take finasteride after your hairline shot to a Norwood 2. NW 3+ is "Just shave it bro" range

>>9357854
seems like that stuff really messes up your hormones and sexual function

>>9355953
>chad vs incel instead of Aryan vs hebrew

Also who gives a fuck about bitches. You're playing a game where you can get yourself a fucking rocket or boat off private jet and go do do whatever the fuck you want, build whatever the fuck you want. Explore the corners of the known and unknown universe.
Do you seriously stay in the first level for npc roastie pussy exploration rather than going on to see how far you can push this and what's really out there?
If the answer to that is different from real life, why are you so much more interesting in games than reality?
Fuck filling a role as some sad roastie's biological imperative placeholder.

>>9357893
No.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/
DYOR and take the damn pill. If you're the unlucky 1-4% (Including placebo) then just stop taking it and cope with hairloss

>>9357952
> These studies which are discussed below reveal that sexual adverse effects occur at the rates of 2.1% to 3.8%, erectile dysfunction (ED) being the commonest followed by ejaculatory dysfunction and loss of libido
Not worth it to me

Men prime at 38

>>9355483
Women's SMV is lower at 30 than men's. I'd say 26-28yo women = 30yo man

>>9357964
You're totally dismissing the placebo effect that is accounted for in medical research
>Dude if I give you this pill you're dick might get floppy
Also you obviously don't take it anymore if you get sides. The half life of finasteride is 6 hours for fucks sake, your dick would be at 100% in less than 24h. Even if it was permanent:
>2-4% of sides vs 100% of your SMV getting BTFO from hairloss and losing 3 points in looks
whatever the answer is clear to me

>>9357952
yea it destroyed my libido and reduced my ability to get erections. And theres far worse sideeffects you could get. Havent been taking it for over a year btw. Do yourself a favor and stay away from fin. Its not worth it.

>>9355717
That's not data, you faggot incel

Anyone who says "sexual market value" unironically should kys

>>9358023
I feel for you man, but just acknowledge that you're a very small statistic in an ocean of millions of men that take finasteride and experience no sides. A vast majority of men will get zero side effects.

>>9358055
I dont think so, Ive spoken to quite a few finasteride users and the amount of people who get sides seems a lot higher than indicated in those studies. But you probably have to have some sort of predisposition to get persistent sides like I did. Still: U gotta ask urself if a 70% chance of saving your hair is worth a 1% chance of your dick not working anymore. Dont think it is lol

>>9355025
>wanting to be rich when you're young and will waste it on stupid bullshit like rent-a-thots
>not wanting to work hard and enjoy the fruits of your labor in your 30's and 40's

Lazy, entitled, non-entrepreneurial fucks like you are what is ruining this country.

>>9355807

LOL not everyone has shit genes, my father is 73 and has plenty of hair and so do I

>>9355807
If you're rich, being bald doesn't matter that much. You only need to look at Wall Street to find plenty of old (60+ years old), obese, hirsute, ugly men married to very attractive women in their early twenties.

>>9355096
This.

Sorry you're ugly, OP.

>>9357705
Look at the fucking chart above, that was compiled from data from OK-cupid over a very long time frame. Do we have to spoonfeed you fucktards everything?

>>9355025

Anyone know who dat blonde bitch in the pic is? She thicc af bro!

>>9358933
>just look at a random chart from some incel fedoralord who has a blog called "the rational male"

>>9355025
If I were rich I wouldn't let those ugly bitches onto my boat.

>>9355025
it's almost as if you think in 2050 we won't have created an AGI that will advance tech to a level where your digital consciousness can be downloaded to any body

>>9359000
Transcendence was a fine movie but i don't think that it will be so easy.

>>9357853
KEK

>>9355025
Go all in on LINK if you want to live with no regrets

>>9355025
Mirin those thigh gains on the right.

Bitch wouldn't fit in power armor.

>>9355665
Are you fucking retarded? Most of his tats show his way of living and how he got there. When he's in bed with 18 year old moroccan bitches and tells them this one is for making my first 10 mil, how wet do you think their pussies get?

>>9355953
Zuck could fuck them all bareback in the ass and pay for the lawsuit

>>9355807
they literally just yesterday found a cure for balding accidentally

>>9359394
Sauce?

>>9355025
Men age like wine, women age like milk

>>9359149
>those thigh
Hooooly fuck, what the hell? Is this some autistic shoop?

>>9359513
A meaningless platitude.

The majority of men over the age of 35 look like shit.

>>9359599
Everyone will look like shit if they dont take care of themselves health wise.

But generally men are still attractive at these older ages while having greater wealth.
On the other hand woman hit the wall at these ages and lose the sexual power fast.

>>9357042
>killer instict
Kys then.

>>9355025
So tired of you fucking BETA'S. Fucking pussy faggots! I don't give a FUCK that you absolutely SUCK AT LIFE. You're a fucking faggot raised by your mom and she probably had you when she was 35. Kill yourself then. You fucking losers shitting up the board with your bitching and moaning. Literally 5 threads a day minimum about low test cucks crying like fucking women. Boo hoo waaaaaah. So tired of seeing this shit. Shut the fuck up.

>>9357042
>killer instinct

>>9357132
Tell us more about Italy and its money.

>>9357042
>security
>finishes his B.S. degree at 30
How low in the social hierarchy are you anon ?

>>9358933
This.

SMV chart on average works out very good.
I'm a lot into camgirls on chaturbate and most of them hit their prime around 21-23. Before they sometimes lack a certain lusciousness and if they are older say 27 they start to show slight signs of aging.

Men at around 36 hit the perfect combination of being physically fit, but also having experience and status their younger peers oftentimes lack..

>>9355088
classic boomer cope

Youth is wasted on the young.

>>9357729
wtf anon
you were yourself literally replying to a post telling you 16-22 girls are crazy about 30+ years old men
now you wonder why can't you date 30 years olds
why are you so intent on dating old hags instead of girls in their prime
YOUR own anecdotal evidence of being a loser at 32 is the exception here
there's heaps of data on physical attraction in blind tests, most replied age ranges, average age differential, actual average age of male actors compared to the age of their characters, testosterone levels at different ages, you could get off your ass and hunt for all of that yourself if you really wanted to
but once again this is really going through extreme effort to justify an obvious truth

>>9361054
>there's heaps of data
Show me some of this data then.

Just show me a single study that demonstrates that women find men in their 30s or 40s more attractive than men in their 20s.

I'm not even saying that you're lying I'm just asking for some evidence.

>>9355483
Nice coping lmao. Women are always higher value than men

>>9358962
>begs for data
>nitpicks data given
>wants to date 30 years old women over 20 years old women
throw stones all you want, but i guarantee you those 3 reasons are why you're not getting laid
nobody is pretending reaching your thirties automatically makes you a chick magnet
it's a significant help
if your personality is repulsive enough, that help might not be enough

I wasted my youth on smoking weed, fucking whores and eventually I got a severe headache due to fucking up my back. Now I am 26 years old and finally my headache and back are a little better. I got a big debt from fucking all those whores. That is why I am here now biz. to become fair and square again. Next 10x someone?

>>9361091
give me one reason i should do your work for you
to me it's an obvious truth, you're the beggar here
send me 0.2 eth and i'll spoonfeed you

>>9361129
Okay so you don't have any data then.

No point in wasting any more time discussing your anecdotes.

>>9357042
OH NO NO NO

>>9361151
That's not how the burden of proof works.

If you had an education above high school you would know this.

>>9361155
0x3d7Cb5562cc0622eB1348705379939d016636d5c
0.2 eth
put up or shut up

>>9361179
nigga the burden of proof is on the guy making an improbable claim
if anything you should be the one providing data to support your theory, assuming anyone cared about your delusions

>>9361200
see>>9361179

>>9361223
I haven't made a claim though.

I'm asking for evidence of YOUR claim.

>>9361252
>If you're old, ugly AND poor however you're gonna have a rough time.
literally your first post
anon, take a step back and look at your replies
i genuinely thought you were 18 when i started replying to you because you express yourself like an angsty teen / first year college student
(hence my encouragement to wait until you hit your 30s yourself)
most people grow out of the whole internet warrior reddit tier "Show me the data. I'm a man of science." bullshit by their late 20s at most
there's limitless fundamental truths about the human condition that are hard to prove conclusively to a person arguing in bad faith, yet rhetoric tricks don't change the truth
you are not getting laid because of the way you act right here right now, which even if you think is a compartmentalized part of yourself restricted to 4chan or what have you, is in fact reflective of personality flaws that turn women away from you
you can rant against that and ask for free labor on the internet all you want, but that won't get you laid either
and once you hit 40, things WILL get harder
use your time as you see fit

>>9361387
Okay so, again, you have no data.

Just baseless ad hominem. That's all I needed to know.

>>9357729
>I'm 32 and my success with women hasn't changed dramatically

That's because you're a faggot and always have been.

>>9361433
What I meant by that is that I've always been popular with women. This hasn't changed since I hit my 30s.

Same with most of my friends. The guys that are popular with women in their 30s were also popular with women in their 20s.

I've yet to meet a guy who was a loser in his 20s and suddenly became a ladies man in his 30s. It's an incel cope mechanism.

Unless maybe you have some actual data to back it up? Otherwise we're just exchanging anecdotes.

>>9361475
I'm not the guy you're talking with. The missing piece of data is that you are a faggot.

>>9361545
You know we have IDs right? I can tell who I'm talking to.

This site works a little differently to Reddit which you're obviously more accustomed to.

>>9361571
>I can tell who I'm talking to.

Can you though? It doesn't seem like it.

>>9361126
Wrong, you fucking virgin

>>9361126

Women are high maintenance dishwashing fuckdolls you beta cuck.

>>9361805
You just know that guys who make comments like this online are meek beta males IRL.

>>9356057
Just gonna leave this here

>>9361897
shut up roastie

>>9355025

I think about this a lot. It’s basically prisoners dilemma- spend your whole life grinding so your grandkids can blow it all. On the other hand you have to save as much possible to be financially secure, you are fucked both ways.

>>9361897

Guess again, fgt. 220 lbs of bearmode fueled by testosterone.

>>9361989
How does being overweight preclude you from being a beta incel?

It just reinforces my point really.

>>9362020
You keep throwing beta and incel around like they're fighting words or something. Alphas lead, they don't demoralize. Stop being a fucking faggot

>>9359415
https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/05/09/1559212/potential-new-cure-found-for-baldness?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed

>>9357853
>dat nessun dorma reference tho
highly civilized, anon--bigly civilizado

>>9362071
This

>>9361975
don't give money to your kids, pig fuck

don't even tell them you're rich.

force them to have discipline and live like a pleb, then leave a video and a will telling them to do the same for their kids when they inherit your money after they're gone

>>9362020

Ever heard of muscle? Of course you haven't.

>>9357042

literal boomer cope

>>9362071
Is this your first day on 4chan or something?

>>9362166
Ever heard of fat? Everyone who describes themselves as "bearmode" is just a fattie in denial.

Also, if you're 220lbs and "bearmode" you're probably short as fuck.

>>9362203

Wrong again. 6'2" with 15% body fat.

>>9357898
A way higher percentage of jews have nicer colored eyes than christians. Thats where the nazis fucked up. When my blonde hair blue eyed great grandmothers sister was in her 20's a group of ss soldiers asked her where the jews lived and they thanked her for her time and moved on assuming she was christian. I have blue and silver eyes, my sister has green and blue eyes. My mother has green eyes and my father has blue eyes. All jewish heritage.

>>9361136
Loser

>>9362160

t. Doesn’t actually know any rich people

>>9362271
Now I know you're just e-statting. That just doesn't compute.

Why tell lies on the internet?

>>9355073
Sick burn

>>9355025
Son of a well-off father who has basically pissed off everything he made at this point. He had multiple girlfriends in his 30s-40s and now still has a few girls he fucks on the regular (I've stumbled in one drinking orange juice in our kitchen nude at 4 A.M., too, and they're far from ugly.) Fact is you can fuck for a -lot- longer as a dude, this "your twenties are the only thing that matters" meme is for women who know that if they're not married by 30 they're basically doomed.

In other news, how to cope with a father that gets 5x the pussy as you?

>>9362359
Fuck him, then it'll be like you've fucked all the chick's he has also.

>>9362434
This. Plus, you just dominated a man, which makes you powerful. Dominating a wealthy man? Even more powerful.

>>9362359
You should have smashed her

There's a better coin its called AMBROSUS.

>>9362203
>Is this your first day on 4chan or something?
No, is it yours? You're far from alpha.

>>9355025

The woman on the left is goddess tier but wtf is with the weird swollen look of the two on the right, it's like they've been injecting their arms and asses with something

>>9357853
What a legend

>>9355483
>23yo women peak
This graph is shit, women peak at 16

>>9362344

You are either a desperate troll or a total brainlet if you cannot compute that.

>>9358962
Lol your pic, some projection going on?

I'm 26 and from a big city, and already notice significant difference in female attention when compared to 21-22. Back then i had to really work it, but now at busstops or trainsstations or w/e i get IOI.

Walk into your grocerie store in a suit. I do look reasonable, and Lift weights. And i got laid first time when i was 16, but yeah like i said, substantial difference.

My friend is 32 and has a child and slays it when we go out.

>>9362881
Nah, I know a bunch that well just total nerds until 18 and then during college developed. On other hand, I know girls that were in their prime during 16-17 and then went down the rabbit hole during and after college.

These people operate on low frequencies and have various STDs and thankfully well usually not procreate

>>9362275
>acquired European gene allelles
>jewish heritage

>>9363023
This, I'm 27 and was at my peak at 24 with prime women, once your mid-late 20s a lot of women still in college will lose interest.

>>9362881
>>9363039
Honestly even before 16yo nowadays.

>>9361091
Just think you fucking idiot.

In normie land: Who are deemed the epitome of attractiveness?

http://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/celebrities/celebrity-photos/top-sexiest-men/ryan-reynolds/

Anybody under 30 on that list? Fuck no. Get out your basement and mediocre life you fucking pleb.

>>9355073
NEETs truly know what it means to be alive. I feel sorry for normies in the rat race trying to keep up appearances.

>>9361916
If you think thats the reason your an inbred.

its so you become big and strong so you can crack other mens skulls open when required/deemed fit.

The woman are an added bonus.

>>9363183
Where is that graph from?

>>9359174
>>moroccan bitches
>>how wet do you think their pussies get?

That's gonna stink up the place.

Also, I guess we found the dude that will suck his dick, free of charge.

>>9363118
>>>
I'm having the opposite experience but OK.

With me its the college girls, the working girls and the milfs 30+ cougars all mirin.

Its just i have less time and desire to screw randoms since life is more demanding.

>>9362359
I can't wait until my son looks at me this way

>>9358962
I've met Mark before. He is a manlet btw.

>>9363244
>your an inbred

>>9363298
It's from internet survey that was carried out as part of the documentary "Are All Men Pedophiles?", in which men were shown pictures of females without being informed of their age and asked if they found them sexually desirable or not.

>>9357705
anon, are you crazy, when you were in uni, you didnt see the girls who swoon for older men?

t. 30yo destroying 22-27yo pussies every weekend, easiest laid is to hit a uni students party, sure these young girls are empty inside but i am looking for a slut to fuck not a wife

>>9363744
> that 30y.o boomer that still goes to parties for college kids

>>9355025
guys in pic is over 40 years old and has a digimon haircut.

these "young" people man. just stop.

>>9364189
been to any decent techno/house clubs? ye, young pussies tend to seek attention and who would say no for some sweet pussies for after parties?

t. red pilled neet rolling

>>9364933
Digimon hair cut? Never heard of that. It's not like he is old and grey so what's wrong with the cut?

>>9355096
i literally get laid by asking girls on tinder if they want the dick straight up. Even at 5'8 I get laid plenty due to handsomeness

Wow, this board really went to shit.

>>9355025
Honestly dont even care. Probably because Ive never pulled hot/young chicks but I view them as overrated. I honestly just want a high IQ cutie, average in looks, or one very into me.

>>9357853
multo bello, signiore

>>9357950
Your right sir. Now how do I become a millionaire in my 20s?

Jokes on the faggot in the hot tub. He is going to cum maybe 3x (max) that day on those bitches and then spend the rest of the day looking into his empty soul

>>9362881
this.
i just got out of college and generally all the girls look worse going out than when they came in. even the smoking hot ones have put on a few extra pounds and you can tell their best days are already behind them.

I'm honestly kinda shocked to see this so early, i cant imagine the feeling when i turn 30

>>9366207
Buckle up kiddo and fuck yourself a 40 year old single mom.

It's 2018, the year of the cuck.

I'm 32 and I creampied an 18 year old asian girl last night, and then again this morning before I sent her back to her parents.

>>9366283
creampie = child support for 18 years.

Gl champ.

>>9355025
as a male you are definitely still in your prime in your 30s even into your 40s if you have good genetics. that's plenty of time to make it. and as jack ma said if you dont make it by 35 its your own fault.

She's going to bring her friend(who is also 18) over this weekend and we are going to have a pool party.
They are going to leave my house with my sperm in their teenage pussies.

>>9366283

Young chicks love 30+ guys, I've fucked so many 18-21 yo girls since turning 30 it's getting boring and am starting to want someone with a brain

>>9366345

>american education

>>9366207
I bet the girls you're talking about are all white and probably blonde. they age like shit. asian women stay hot and skinny into their 30s. latinas too (except mexican because they have 8 kids by then)

>>9366380
So many chads in this thread. I'm raging with jelly.

>>9355647
Honestly surprised he isn't Sicilian, given the way he flaunts himself

>>9355025
I see you've taken the wealth blackpill + agepill

>>9366564
Implying they're not just larping faggots

>>9366436
I couldn't agree more, white women age like shit. "The wall" is talked about for a reason.