/biz/ - Business & Finance

for a piece of paper and debt

Because it's a boring degree, but almost guarentees a upper middle class quality of life in an account career after graduation.

>>927808
why do people do phds in accounting?

>>927812

They couldn't get into the big 4.

>>927808
they aren't particularly smart or great with numbers and they're willing to do the most boring job because that's the only way they'll make a pretty good living

unbiased finance major here btw

>>927811
>>927821
Is this true?
I'm in first year accounting for my business minor right now and it's 10x easier than my easiest MechE class.

Will I get rich being an accountant?

>>927808
Because I want to have the ability to make good money, have a career and not a job, while still having the mental energy and financial ability to pursue other money making opportunities outside of work.

>>927821
Finance is pretty much the same thing. Not all finance majors are smart. Not all accounting majors are smart. To generalize a whole field like that is pretty dumb.

Dual Accounting and Finance major here.

>>927824
You'll be able to make 40-45k/year at minimum in the mid-west. That's not great money, but it's an okay start. Advancement is the name of the game.

If your goal is to be rich you should have stuck with engineering.

>>927824
if you break into the big 4, you betcha. I just interviewed with EY for a structured finance position. Starting salary is 65k, when you become a manager 5 years later, the average base pay is 120k. The accounting service lines pay identical to that I'm assuming. But you'll have to get your masters

>>927827
Finance at least uses math that goes beyond arithmetic. But I'll definitely agree that you don't have to be smart at all to get any business degree

>>927808
because they both lack creativity and have no aptitude for a more quantitative subject but are sensible enough to slog through a boring subject in order to end up in a boring job that suits their mediocre abilities

>>927824
Accountants for a business are as essential as plumbers for anyone in a house. They're basically the white collar version of plumbers, who else is going to do the boring shit work of managing invoices, calculating expenses, and handling tax paperwork?

>Will I get rich being an accountant?
Upper middle class lifestyle is not rich in my opinion, so no. But it's still better than welfare neet life. Realistically, between 40k-150k depending on experience, field and location.

>>927831
>I just interviewed with EY
noice

>>927838
thank you I feel lucky, but I'm not counting any chickens before they hatch

>>927836
>who

Business comp sci here

Answer: a $150 computer.

Accounting degrees prove you a competent, thorough and detail oriented person. Also because after finishing this year I will make 50k starting and an additional 10-20k during busy season. Also sitting my CPA as well and using my 2 years experience in government audit to sit for the CFE and CGAP. Most boards have to retain an financial member and you get paid more than the standard board salary if you have something they need. Working in the government makes you even more desirable since you will rub shoulders with politicians. Politicians and who gives them money run the business world. OP is dumb and his father should have pulled out.

Also do you not realize accountants analyze and maintain you business overall? It's business analytics, statistics and risk management.

>>927851
*You're fuck autocorrect, I'm getting the priv.

>>927847
Ken- Show me a $150 computer that can understand tax laws or read a sales gain adjustment that's scribbled on a postit note and i will introduce you to venture capital investors that will throw millions of dollars at you and put intuit out of business.

It's a good degree to build a middle to upper-middle class lifestyle. For those with little personal ambition but a desire to put in the right amount of work to get out the right life. Career should not be the primary focus in life for this person, as the work is colorless and uninteresting. If someones wants to make partner in a tax firm, they are the human eqiivalent of a sweater vest.

Exception to the above is audit at a Big4 or large firm, which can be very interesting, and owning one's own accountancy practice, which brings color and excitement to otherwise grey and dull work.

Some of my friends are second year and don't even like accounting but are doing it because either their parents are forcing them or they don't know what they're doing and they all hate it.

They're going to get burnt out and they won't listen to me what do I do?

Also my room mate is a ECON major that's graduating and he's saying he's going to do his CPA. The kids so lost.

>>927847
>thinks he'll single handily write a computer program that IBM, intuit, EY, PWC haven't been able write with billions of dollars and years of funding.

>>927911
This board is full of hubris from failure to launch boys who think they have an IQ of 140+ and the ability to get rich at 25 with no hard work, despite the fact that they are starting college 2 to 4 years after their peers, still work at gas stations, and still live with mommy and daddy.

I would just ignore posts like this in the future. Will be better for the board in the long run.

>>927808

some (very few) people with an autistic brain seem to enjoy it. even most programmers, etc. math brains hate accounting as it is so fucking boring and retarded number jerking.

and the pay, oh god, the pay sucks ass.

>>927808
Because they want their dick sucked.

>>927921
that's some good bait

Auditor Here:

Stay clear, stick to engineering or some shit. If you must, work enough to get manager experience and fuck off to some other career.

Pay is great, work is dull.

There are office drones that work 8am-8pm, and it is not even busy season. I dont understand why someone would work this more than 10years, kill yourself if you do

>>927985
>Pay is great, work is dull
Starting salary for a CPA at a big four is like $50k, or about $10 an hour when you consider all the overtime they make you put in.

>>927813
>implying a mid tier firm won't pay you the same but you won't have to work 12 hour days

>>928011
Uh. Nah.

My friend just locked in an entry level position for 50k, without a CPA, not at a big 4.

With a CPA you're looking at a lot more.

NJ CPA here, graduated May 2013
Working as a Senior Accountant
84k base/6k bonus

Most of the replies here are bullshit. My wife and I are both accountants and make over six figures with an extremely low cost of living. I may never be filthy rich but the degree enables me to be financially independent. Being that I am next in line for the Controller position at the growing company I work for, I wouldn't say that eventually making a quarter million a year is out of line. The best part is that getting the degree was so so easy. The amount of work I put into it for the amount of money I can get out of it is the reason I became an accountant.

>>928080
So... What do you like most about your day to day activities of your job?

>>928099
The day to day activities of my job now suck pretty bad. I handle payables and receivables daily and its pretty mundane. However, constructing financial statements is what I like most about my job. Seeing the value of this business increase (or decrease) monthly is what makes me tick. It's like having your finger on the pulse of the company. The financial statements make all the other mundane things worth it for me. Eventually I'll have a team that does all the mundane stuff and I'll sign off on it and hopefully golf a few times a week.

>>928011
I work at a small CPA firm
Never worked over 45 hours a week

Clearing 48k, entry

>>928138
48k is fuck all. I'm on an electrician and I pull 65k after tax. why tick up a student loan and spend 4 years studying for such a little wage?

>>928124
Cringed so hard reading this but I can see why you'd like.

>>928142
The growth.

Once you get an accounting designation you're making $100k minimum.

>>928080
Most replies on /biz/ are so garbage. I'm not even sure why I come on here anymore. Every 2nd thread is about some retard asking how to make money on forex, and replies are 99% lies of people lying about their salaries and experience.

>>928142
Manual labour workers always argue this shortsighted opinion and it's pretty hilarious to me.

"I'm making $50k a year right out of high school at my uncle's roofing company while you waste time at college to get a $50k job ROFL!"

Meanwhile, if you're working manual labour, good luck breaking $70k without working shift work on an oil rig.

>>928450
Exact same feel here.

This board really became shit... /r9k/ infested it with their dumb fucking neet memes and make-belief.

Oh well. /biz/ was great for a short while but it's time to move on.

>>927821
>>927827
Finance majors are (mostly) the kids that couldn't cut it in Intermediate Accounting

>>928440
Yeah my wage is starting wage. I'n the company I'm at now the project manager, who had my job 3 years ago, is making about 100 - 120k.

>>928454
>Manual labour
I'm an electrician not a welder. the most diverse trade around, with so many specialized branches it's ridiculous. See reply above, that is what I can make within a couple of ears before I even think about specializing in specially made transducers or fitting medical equipment. Maybe I will join the rigs, I'd have one of the highest paying jobs out of the trades there apart from the welders, except my job would be simply testing and fixing test. So who had the short sighted argument, pal.

My friend's dad majored in accounting and is now a CFO making 450k. I guess some lucky CPAs strike gold

>>927836
>invoices
>tax paperwork

Is there some misconception about what accountants do or something? Accountants don't deal with stuff like that, esp. not in public roles, that is more the role of book keepers or other low-tier business jobs. Secretaries and the like.

Is anyone else pissed how difficult it is to become a CPA these days?

>>928554

No, considering they can sign attestation reports, the profession should be held to an extremely high standard

I got a job that started the day after my final ever exam. I get paid well and I actually get to work in an interesting area where I get some flexibility to use judgement instead of mindless data entry.

This is exactly what I wanted when I decided to study accounting.

>>927808
most ceo's come from accounting roles.

Accountants basically make sure that cash flow statements, income statements etc are all correct

they do other shit as well and they kinda vary.

i know an accounting firm owner, he is pretty rich, nice house etc. he does my parents taxes for them and he manages my dads business records making sure that he didnt fuck anything up.

>>927811
until your job gets replaced by a computer in 4 years

>>928583
Low level shit has already been replaced by computer programs. Accountants that are good can never be replaced by a computer program.

Accountants now don't have to worry about tedious data entry because it is all done by computer these days so the can focus on things that are actually difficult and provide benefit to the client

>>928583
Implying sarbanes-oxley doesn't make sure that my job is safe for a very long time

>>927813
I think every single accounting PhD student at my university had Big 4 experience.

>>927808
Total qt. Would jungle fever with her.

>>927808
Because it's an in demand occupation that provides an above average lifestyle for very standardized work. It's literally so mechanical that all they have to do is go in and apply the same functions daily and get paid well to do it

>>928586
>so the can focus on things that are actually difficult and provide benefit to the client
how stupid of me. A computer would do exactly as told, you want an accountant to be "creative"

>>927985
i am one of those office drones.

i like the work and have no life, hence the hours.

accounting suits the completionist, the type of person who would get enjoyment from completing a puzzle. its like a conservative detective job.

>>927811
>upper middle class quality
Try Middle class. You're only upper middle class if you work in the big 4.

>>927831
>tarting salary is 65k, when you become a manager 5 years later, the average base pay is 120k
>five years later
That's assuming you last two years.

>>928693
So what does it take to last at a Big 4?

>>928697
Sadomasochism. You got love working 90-110 hours a week. Kiss your boss ass, forget having a social life and doing your own thing after work. Your life is the firm. This is why you have other anons say go work for smaller firms with less hours. Its quite common to see big 4 employees look like zombies in interviews for regional firms.

>>927821

finance is where they stick the fratboys that are bro'ing their way through college. accountants know everything you know

Accountants can speak the language of business. It is a boring occupation but an excellent foundation for business in general. Rockefeller started out as a bookkeeper.

>>928080

this

>>927808
For secure future,
even in Finland where there is big problem with unemployment.
There is "loads" of openings for accounting and payroll clerks,
mostly for payroll clerks but if you have accounting degree you can get those jobs too so you won't be out of a job atleast.

>>927866

pic related, it's like 60 bucks.

I don't think there's that much money in it, and there are some problems. A lot of businesses with the capacity (including my own) develop their own in house accounting programs. They're so easy to build, it doesn't make much sense to pay licenses and training (which you will need, because a one size fits all program will be massive).

We still consult with an accounting firm to do occasional audits for legal and insurance purposes.

But as more small and large businesses adopt this strategy, the demand for accountants will shrink and eventually extinguish in the long term as the legal landscape changes to accomodate this development.

If you think there's tens of millions in self-tailoring accounting programs and you want to manage such an enterprise then drop your email,

>>927808
I wish I knew to get a major in finance tbh. I work for a bank doing small underwriting with loans/credit cards and I actually enjoy it. It's just complicated enough not to be boring but not so difficult that it's a major stress. You just need to be confident enough to make decisions and stick to them.

Also while computers can do a lot they will probably never make a computer that can 100% understand the stupid shit people do. Not to mention you have people attempting to commit fraud, meaning your mousetrap will never be completely exploit proof.

>>928473
>finance
>requires knowledge of calculus, application of its use in business contexts, analytical and critical thinking, and (for most positions) good interpersonal skills

vs

>accounting
>addition and subtraction
>when in doubt, refer to irs code #12-34

kek

>>928810
>rudimentary understanding of Calc I from Stewart textbook

Since i'm in this thread are Auditing or Assurance or working in Tax any more interesting or well-paid than accountancy?

Are they more or less as difficult to break into?

most accountants i know have committed suicide or are severly deperssed people who eventually quit the job and hop on disability pension. but hey, at least you got a job!!

Most of accountants are some materialists faggots who choose to major in accounting because it's easy and they're some lazy fucks who want to get a job a get money as soon as possible to buy things they wanted to buy when they were teenagers, only to become a depressed faggots that hate their job and want to suicide because their life means nothing.

>>928817
>balancing books
>the same thing middle aged housewives do with the family checkbook, but on a slightly larger scale

>intermediate financial accounting exam on tuesday

Wish my luck fam, worried as fuck I might bomb this shit some how

>>928947
Everyone in Audit hates it. Tax is probably the best of the bunch, simply because it involves the least actual accounting.

>>929115
Underrated post

>>927808
i knew a lot of kids in high school that were going to college for accounting, i would ask, why? they would say "good money" i would think...have fun with your midlife crisis and suicide.

>>928431
jesus do dragon slayer and get rune pl8 nub.

>>928464
where do us normies go to discuss real things?

>>928810
Finance is also an irrelevant social science with very little basis in reality. Its fun to play around with but accountancy looks at the fundamentals of a business and is a much more pragmatic approach to business analysis. If you are in business and haven't studied at least some rudimentary financial statement analysis or other basic accounting you are retarded since it is literally the crux of every single company.

You'll also find the majority of people even in finance are either CA or CPA or did a double major in finance and accounting or econ and accounting.

I honestly keep asking myself why oh why I studied tax law. I only have to do my thesis now but it bores me to tears and I fear Ill never finish it.

>>929243
Accounting and tax law by itself is pretty fun. But when you add in deadlines and pressure the fun quickly wanes.

>>927808
Because the Ethnic Womens Studies course was oversubscribed.

>>927985
How can u go onto another career after getting your degree? or is it better to start working for a bit and then once u get some experience proceed to go another route/job? wouldnt u be wasting a lot of time?

>>928080
Well you must naturally be smart then, i'm 2nd year student so i must be dumb if im finding little difficult and need to study on my own a lot.

>>929244
Isn't tax law a good pick?

>>927838
EY are great.

I recently moved to their private client services, and they're just awesome. Shit all over my past accountants, and are cheaper.

Good luck with the job.

>>929594
Where I live it's the third highest paying degree.

>>929703
Where do you live?

>>927828
>if goal is to be rich, stick with engineering
lmfao, my brother had perfect grades while I did shit and now I make as much at entry level as he does at the senior level

>>928774
By that same logic, lawyers will also be replaced by comps.
accounting in its higher form, is interpretation and analysis. There might be a million correct answers, but just like in court, the difference between a good and a bad accountant could mean saving millions or going to jail

>>928810
>you pay accountant $75k to do just that cause you can't do it yourself

>this much hate over accountant in this board
>stay mad while I make more money doing easier things than you because you can't do it yourself legally (you need my signature, and ill only give it once I know everything is good-might take another few hours @ $400/h

>>927808
Out of interest, what do the people here think of actuary work? I'm thinking of trying to get into that (I'm currently a maths undergrad).

>>929270
Don't get me wrong I had to study but once you truely understand the basics it's easy to build off of that.

>>929706
The Netherlands. Tax evasion central.

>>927811

this.

the golden days of accounting have passed, but you can still make a shitload of money if your business plan is right.

My brother in law went to school in his mid 20's to become an accountant. He wasn't motivated enough to stick with a job that required any kind of labor, even if it were just running a forklift. He wanted a guaranteed desk job, and he wanted a sense of respect and higher pay than some of the basic labor jobs in the area. Unfortunately he hasn't found a job yet.

>boring

Depends on what you like.I think engineering (tried it for a semester) is boring as shit. Medicine (tried for two years) was yucky. Accounting is comfy and interesting.It's like a pile of puzzle pieces laid out on a table.

>hurr durr computer

Accountants often need to apply judgement to situations. If you had babby accounting (intro 1+2), that shit is mostly what the computer does, you just learn it to understand how the computer is doing it and to make sure nothing fucks up. Actual accounting is a lot of cost benefit analysis, judging things like expected economic life or choosing methods or interpreting tax law or going out and putting together managerial reports. Boss asks you if x would be a good idea, you have to go find the numbers and put it all together with a damned good dose of judgement to provide him some info. And then there's tax, which is trying to translate people's lives onto a pile of documents, while simultaneously getting the highest score and staying within all the rules, and covering your own ass. It's a huge strategy game with a ton of interpretation. And the goddamned stupid shit half-brained people who took one or two business courses come up with to try and cheat on their taxes... That would be you lot, by the way. Thank an accountant when we have to save your ass from the IRS when you try fucking them over through some oh so clever means and end up on your ass with a huge fine. That is pretty much what my tax prof does as his day job. Find me a computer that can do that. Computers can crunch numbers, but they cannot interpret, cannot make judgement calls, and can't fix people's retarded mess they call a life.

Also, computers cannot audit. Computers go based off input. If the inputs are originally a fucking lie, what's the computer gonna do when it doesn't know anything but what the liar told it?

Some straight ignorance on this board. Stay jelly.

(Also, I had straight A's in both medicine and engineering.)

>>928069
Does your company have any internships coming up?

kids here seem to think incredibly short-sightedly about degrees in general. close to 80% of accounting majors do something completely different than accounting or book keeping.

and vice versa. i know finance guys doing accounting. school wont teach you a shit wheter it's finance, programming, accounting you name it. you will have learn completely different things in a specific job anyways.

Accounting as compliance, something has to get done, is boring as shit and gets automated as much as possible, so the only roles are data entry and people who are responsible for everything.

Accounting as a advisory/consulting service is much more interesting because you're doing something between what a law firm does and what a normal business consulting group would do for a very specialized element of a deal.

>>930799
>close to 80% of accounting majors do something completely different than accounting or book keeping
What do you base this upon?
Experiences? Tell us.

Fuck that shitty wagecuck job, enjoy becoming an alcoholic and wanting to kill yourself everyday at work.

>>927812
to do research about accounting

>>930799
Who the fuck is that girl, man. I see a lot of picctures of her and it's starting to bother me.

>>927921
Started management this year, starting to believe this aswell.

>accounting masters student
>rejected by 4 firms when ppl w lower gpas and lesss exp got interviews
>either going to learn a trade as soon as i graduate or killing myself by my next birthday if i dont get a fucking job

>>927808
because my bachelors in mathematics is a fucking worthless pile of shit and i dont want to make $35k/yr doing manual labor on swing shift for the rest of my life, so im going back to school for a masters in accounting to become cpa eligible and get a $50-60k/yr starting job in public accounting.

>>932744
You cant learn how to manage. Education wasted

>>932775
>my autism didnt get me a job
>it must be accounting

>>929717
I don't need an autistic man child to count my money Tyvm.

>>928492
Also I am in a nice warm office surfing reddit, playing with Excel and peoplesoft. You are outside or doing like actual physical labor.