/biz/ - Business & Finance

GG US middle class. Welcome to competing with 1 billion Chinese try-hards who will work at 1/10 the minimum wage.

>>915607
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

>>915605
A good time to move to Malaysia, Chile or Peru.

>>915624
Woah, Woah, Waoh.
Where do you think you are?
You can't just bring up economic theories in a discussion about the TPP. You need to mention how the corporate overlords have power, they can sue governments for all their money, how Japan can't produce pedo porn, and some other stuff I read in the reddit comment section.

>>915630
Da joos, dont forget da joos!

You mixed up Malaysia and Indonesia in the graphic.

>>915635
Got it off google images. Should have paid more attention.

>>915624
>>915630
Wasn't this kept behind closed doors though? Like, even members of Congress only got to see it for 1 hour max and they weren't allowed to take notes?

Isn't that kind of sketchy?

>>915638
There were some leaked provisions. Although they might be different to the final one, I imagine most of the provisions will be the similar.

As for the sketchyness, it makes sense to keep a deal that hasn't even been agreed on behind closed doors. Most politicians don't want to appear weak in the global stage (Country A asks for something, Country B says no, Another politician in COuntry A critisizes Country A's methods and that they're weak).

Plus the general populace can get a bit overboard when it comes to economic policies, it's one of those subjects most people don't actually understand but everyone has an opinion on it. It's just more convenient if the deal is negotiated in private and the final deal is sent to congress for debate.

>>915630

>I'm willing to take it up the ass because economic theory says its a good idea!

good goy

>>915643

>It's just more convenient

Yes and a dictatorship is more convenient than a democracy.

We all know the average person is stupid on any given subject, doesn't mean we shouldn't value democracy and transparancy.

>>915643
Nobody is saying they have to release the transcript, we just want to see the final agreement.

>>915646
I'm not approving their lack of transparency, I'm just explaining what their intention was in not releasing unfinished versions of the deal.

>>915647
The deal was literally reached a few hours ago. Give it bit, the final agreement will be released.

Except that isn't how treaties are ratified. It isn't official until it's come open before Congress and passed both houses. It has to be debated in the open first, they'll try to rush it through but there are too many people looking right now.

As far as I've seen there are some things that are good, some things that are neutral, some things that are somewhat nasty but probably necessary to get it passed, and a few things that are absolutely disturbing in their implication and implementation that should be cut out from the final draft.

>>915624

Oh fuck off Rothbardian. Comparative advantage might be a thing, but it has approximately jack shit to do with running a healthy society and is a gestalt effect of a number of other economic factors.

>>915630

>le edgy anti-reddit memer

>>915629
Chile is one of the main countries that will get cucked from this partnership, if you're american, It's actually time to stay in america and benefit from all the unfair advantages and leverage your companies will get

>>915671

Nah, I've got a better one

>Represent American company in foreign country getting fucked by this
>Massive dip in cost of living + tax exemption on the American side up to $100k
>"Pay taxes in [insert third world country] with no record of my recompense and no internal tax service that can't be bribed? Hahahahaha, good one."
>Return home in a few years with a big pile of money

I already have friends doing this in places like China, Thailand, Taiwan etc.

>>915638
It was part of the Asian countries' terms. They didn't want their people to think they were receiving anything but the utmost best possible plan plus good™

>>915644
>Ricardo was wrong because of da joos!

>>915675
You're right. The system will be unfeasibly easy to manipulate and everyone will abuse it and all of our countries will be in complete financial ruin in the next 5 years. Just like what happened with NAFTA!

>>915703

>putting such words into my mouth

Top kek. You didn't follow a single thing that I actually said did you?

>>915607
>A prosperous country with higher wage rates per unit of time may have lower labor costs per unit of output than a Third World country where workers are not paid nearly as much.

>A common fallacy in popular discussions of international trade is that countries with high "wages"- that is, wage rates per unit of time - cannot compete with countries that lave low "wages," on the assumption that the high-wage countries will have higher production costs.

>being mad that this bill will provide financial assistance to those who lost their jobs due to outsourcing
>being mad you don't have to actually work for money anymore

>>916054
This. I tried working at a hard manual job once for a summer in college. It was shit. I quit. Why would anyone want that?

>Deal reached

It hasn't even been put to a vote yet. Congress, in the U.S at least, won't vote for it for a long time. Calm your damn horses.

>>915630
Woah woah woah

Hold on. Is some brainwashed NEET who literally cannot benifit at all from this deal is defending his ultra rich elites?

Are you saying this NEET also knows more about economic theory than Joseph Stiglitz. A man who has won a noble prize in economics?
>inb4 Obama's NP for being black
>This was back when they meant something
Holy shit I didn't know this board was filled with such fucking geniuses.

"Hurr durr it's not bad, just because we can't see this law being passed now or even 5 years after it's past doesn't mean it's bad hurrrrr."
This is why our rights and freedoms are being stripped away like a cheese stick. Fuck this shit I'm outta this country. I'm about to start a crew with the real Roxxans.

>>915605
I think its great.

but I'm very worried about the exportation of US IP law. from the drafts they're basically making every country who agrees to this agreement to super SOPA.

>>916118
That's a whole lot of words to say absolutely zero things with substance. If you want to prove this trade deal is bad for the average American, why not actually say something about its merits?

>>915605
Hey /biz/ mexifag here.
How bad this thing will fuck us? It is like NAFTA 2.0?
I'm living in a fast growing comfy city that gets most of its profit out of Nissan factories and now a Damlier one just moved in.

>>916222

It'll benefit you in some ways and undermine you in others.

>>916162
Because in a democracy people should be able to see laws being passed that directly effect them you retard.

>>916222
it will be like NAFTA 2.0 in the way that it fucks over the American job market for the sake of the board's income and shareholders

>>916230

Nah, that already happened. What a lot of this is going to do is force countries to open up their markets to us like we've already opened up ours to them. Basically they can't be protectionist domestically while exporting to us like crazy. It'll be great for certain American exports. It'll also enforce some IP laws that keep a lot of these East Asian nations from violating US IPs.

>>915635
They got rid of Malaysia entirely. Apparently West Malaysia is Singapore, East Malaysia is Brunei, and the rest of Borneo is where Malaysia has been hiding.

>>916232
which unfortunately means if you plan on Torrenting you better get a damn good VPN or rent out a seedbox, also say goodbye to things like Popcorn Time

>>916222
Don't worry bro, start a construction company that specializes in building walls on the border. Then land a government contract, higher illegals south of the Mexican border. Build the best fucking wall this world has ever seen, put China to shame. Offer Stock in your company, at the IPO short that shit like crazy, make millions and disappear into the wind. Start a new construction company that specializes in building tunnels, laugh all the way to the bank. Trump2016

>>916225
>>916230
>>916232
After thinking of it for a while, given China's been left out of TPP, would this be good for the industries that rely on exporting stuff? Since the minimun salary here had spawned a lot of cheap labor, plus china has been left out of TPP.
And in counterpart i assume the grain/corn agricultural products in general will be massively imported now, ending what NAFTA started in that way.
>>916235
What does torrenting has to do with this?

>>916244

Part of the goal of TPP is to cut China out of the North American market because they won't adopt quality standards or respect intellectual property. We don't have the clout to force them to come to the bargaining table with our military or our economy, but we can take our ball home and go play with some other countries.

>grain/corn imported

Hahahahahahaha, no. We're going to export even more of it.

>>916244
>what does Torrenting have anything to do with this?

next level IP protection clauses that have been written in to the agreement, you mean to think the MPAA doesn't have their input to international business in mass markets like Asia that are known for piracy? they would use this for blanket coverage of IP protection regardless of country of origin as long as the pirate was within American borders, this has been discussed already by the FFTF

>>916242
Kek'd hard, memes aside, wouldn't it be logical to charge the wall to central american countries as well? since they're the ones jumping the border atm, I shit you not, I see everyday a lot of central americans jumping off the train asking for money at the stoplights in the industrial side of the city, and a lot of them don't even speak spanish.
>>916225
>>916230
>>916232
After thinking of it for a while, given China's been left out of TPP, would this be good for the industries that rely on exporting stuff? Since the minimun salary here had spawned a lot of cheap labor.
And in counterpart i assume the grain/corn agricultural products in general will be massively imported now, ending what NAFTA started in that way.
>>916235
What does torrenting has to do with this?

>>916250
see
>>916248

>>916248
Fixed my post here >>916250
Thanks for answering.
>>916247
>Hahahahahahaha, no. We're going to export even more of it.
I hope so, a lot of fertile land with pottential is dying because the local market has been shit lately.

>>916256

You don't know about how US agricultural subsidies do you? We sell rice to China and Japan for Christ's sake.

>>916259
I'm not from the land of the free amigo.
>>916222

>>916256
there's a lot of sneaky shit being written into this agreement by those who are bought and paid for by certain industries within America and they are using this to their advantage to ensure the status quo remains and they get their way even more, and essentially Chile will be a blatant puppet state

>>916138
Officially, the deal allows for standardised IP laws across the states involved, so, in theory, copyright holders can crack down on piracy across borders more easily.

Unoffically, people have been trying to crack down on piracy for decades. Trade agreement aint gonna do shit.

>>916259
The US agricultural sector wouldn't exist without subsidies, for the most part. We subsidize farmers heavily during low-yield years, but, unintentionally more diabolical, the government purchases excess crops from farmers during bumper years and dumps all that can't be stored into the third world. As a result, it's literally impossible to farm corn or whatnot in Africa because you simply cannot compete with literally free corn from the US.

In many ways, US farmers and their immense political power are a significant reason why Africans are starving.

>>916514

Yes, that's my point. 100% of costs are covered by subsidies, so we can sell crops for pennies on the dollar with no repercussions.

>>916517
Yeah, and it's wholly unnecessary and basically only happens because farmers own large tracts of land. Not that I'm saying we should bankrupt our farmers, but our food would be much cheaper overall if we imported it from countries with a comparative advantage.

>>916524

Yes. But that would diminish US soft power in those countries.

>>915638

Its literally how all multinational treaties should be negotiated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-level_game_theory

It allows negotiators at the international level to use different bargaining strategies and leverage different negotiation chips without having their efforts get torpedoed by an opinion poll at the start of the negotiation process. It also reduces the role of special interest groups in determining the deal.

Why the fuck wouldn't they use a map with the Pacific in the centre?

Fuckwits

>>915607

china is not even in the deal you ignorant cunt