/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9120661

>>9120661
>>9120761

>>9120661
>>9120761
>>9120774

>>9120661
>>9120761
>>9120774
>>9120785

>>9120661
>>9120761
>>9120774
>>9120785
>>9120820

>>9120661
Ironic pic related dont you think?

>>9120661
Why Some People Call Bitcoin Cash ‘bcash’. This Will Be Shocking to New Readers.
The August 1st (2017) fork of Bitcoin is called Bitcoin Cash. It was announced late July on www.bitcoincash.org.

The fork happened because after 4 long years, Core developers and their corporate sponsors were successful in pulling the wool over the eyes of the community.

You see, Bitcoin was always supposed to be peer-to-peer electronic cash. It was intended as a permissionless network and a fast, low-fee payment system. This is what made it famous and allowed it to become a multi billion dollar asset.

Unfortunately, those ‘core’ developers had other ideas and are changing Bitcoin into what is called a “settlement layer”, which ultimately won’t be a peer to peer system any more.

There’s a mighty big difference between the peer to peer money we all know and love that exists today and the “layered” system that the “Bitcoin Core” group envisions for the future.

A HUGE difference. Like, night and day.

>>9120936
“They” Are Upset that Bitcoin Forked. Especially Because the Fork Calls Itself Bitcoin (Cash)
Bitcoin Cash may have less hashpower and a smaller network than Bitcoin, but it follows the original roadmap, the original code design, and the original vision of Bitcoin as peer-to-peer money.

Bitcoin (Core) on the other hand is much more like an alt-coin with a complex, overhyped code labyrinth called SegWit… a refusal to allow Bitcoin to scale on chain as designed by Satoshi… and a roadmap that takes away the power of the people and changes Bitcoin into a platform for the banks.

And no, that’s not an exaggeration.

So They Started the ‘bcash’ social Engineering Attack
Make no mistake: this is an attack, with the same tactics they’ve been using for years in trying to control public opinion. In the past, their main weapon has been censorship.

This time, they want to “relabel” Bitcoin Cash and hope it catches on.

It won’t work. Even the exchanges which are sympathetic to Core are aware that playing politics here will cost them business and reputation.

>>9120661
Im just glad the dragon slayer shit is over with. we all know they are retards so I just ignore them

>>9120950
The Attack Is More Malicious Than You Think
It’s not just that they have a bunch of trolls (some paid) who go around saying ‘blah blah bcash’.

They actually use their censorship at r/bitcoin and try to redirect unsuspecting users to r/bcash, which is a subreddit they control.

Don’t believe for one second their lies of “I call it that because its an abbreviation”.

Nope. This is an orchestrated social engineering attack. In fact…

They have fake subreddits, fake twitter accounts, fake websites, you name it.

Why They Are Going to All This Trouble?
It’s simple: They want to disassociate Bitcoin Cash from Bitcoin. They don’t want to allow Bitcoin Cash to use the Bitcoin brand name.

And that’s completely hypocritical given the fact that the Core group has used every dirty trick in the book (censorship, corporatism, lies and stalling) to usurp the Bitcoin project to their own ends.

By contrast, all Bitcoin Cash is trying to do is continue making the blocks bigger so that the peer to peer network can grow.

>>9120661
It's funny because that image is so untrue. Every day on r/bitcoin one of the top rated posts is some anti bch rage post.

>>9120963
Their Secret Hopes
They are hoping that they can remove the Bitcoin name from Bitcoin Cash.

They are hoping new users won’t even realize there’s another version of Bitcoin.

They are hoping those users won’t realize that Bitcoin was originally peer to peer electronic cash (not this settlement layer that Core is pushing.)

And ultimately, they are hoping people don’t see that Bitcoin has changed course, and that there’s a version of Bitcoin that stayed with the original formula.

It’s Not Going to Work
Cheap tactics like this aren’t going to fool many people for long. Sorry “Core”. You’re going to have to compete on merit.

>>9120964
>reddit
You have to go back.

I remember when Bitcoin Classic shills first arrived.

>>9120661
>I don't think about you at all
Suuuuure. Check Roger's tweets. So many butthurt retards there.

>>9120785

I wish someone would post the original of this damned photo

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

>>9120922
Kek

>>9121062
August 1st?

https://youtu.be/VoFb3mcxluY?t=6m40s

We are just trying to enlighten some of you brainwashed sheeple who still think core is bitcoin. Its in your own best interest to get in early plus quit supporting the banker coin or PayPal 2.0 core coin.

Tons of proof out there wake up

>>9120661

DURCH CRYPTO LAND MARSCHIEREN WIR,
FÜR BITCOIN CASH KÄMPFEN WIR!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9UE5HxRCg4

>>9121065
He's got the hornets nest stirred up today again with this post

>>9121884
and all he gets are just stupid comments like bcash is trash and how he is a scammer. No technical arguments at all, I hate this shit so much.

>>9120964
>r/bitcoin

>>9121956
>bcash is trash
refute this

No one falls for this kike BTC shilling

>>9121956
you have to admit it's a biased criteria, for example the first 4 points are really the same thing. he also didn't judge community consensus, further development, and exchange availability.

>>9120964
>r/bitcoin

>>9122065
doesn't really matter and if it does make your own chart and post it then.

>>9120661
ever heard of chainlink?

>>9122037

>>9121956
How would you make a technical argument against a junk spreadsheet with arbitrary categories and values pulled out of his arse. The only appropriate thing to say in response to this kind of health supplement level marketing is that BCash is trash. You don't dignify grade A bullshit but treating it as some kind of legitimate position.

>>9122065
They're weighted for a reason.

>>9120661
there will be no mercy

>>9122644
he provided links core bitch

>>9121808
but what about that chinky jihan wu? I tried to buy Bcash once, knowing Core is centralized and bs, but can't. I think of Roger Ver and Jihan Wu and I can't bring myself to support those faggots. I'd rather ride ETH and NEO. Bitcoin altogether is a fucking mess.

bcash could be decent without Roger Ver overshilling it and claiming Blockstream kills babies. Self made millionnaire gone mad.

You'll never win 100% approval in anything probably, but if you get over 1/2 you can win.

>>9121002
>>9122028
>>9122077
Good argument new friends. OP's image is still totally false.

>>9120661
>itt: blockstream shill complains about losing

>>9123545
It wouldn't. Bcash is technically a shit too.

remember core has a paid army of troll working all social media.


Yesterday, Lightning Network developer Joseph Poon wrote in a Reddit comment:

They just have a secret channel where they organize their PR and trolling campaigns. Many people have talked about it (more than 5 people) and it's alluded to in various places which are publicly accessible, since it's basically where a lot of decisions around PR happens.

I'm extremely upset that they are attacking me for going to the press when they participate in far more underhanded tactics, and all of Core knows full well what they're doing if not actively contributing.

I believe what Poon was referring to is a private channel in the Bitcoin Core Slack called #dragonsden. This channel's existence was publicly revealed during a talk given by Bram Cohen. During Cohen's talk, a notification minimized his slides, and he had the Bitcoin Core Slack open to the #dragonsden channel.

>>9123765
wrong, pasta;
Blockchains are a global computer, and the components of that computer that actually dictate the security of the transactions are the pieces that provide hashing power, they condense consensus from the vapour of competitive proof of work
The value of a chain is directly proportional to the amount invested in the production of this hashing power. And the SHA256 hashing power deployed in the world is orders of magnitude greater than any other POW algorithm.
This means that the SHA256 hashing power blockchains are orders of magnitude more secure and valuable than any other blockchains.
And lastly, because the provision of proof of work is a competitive process, and miners can only provide POW for one chain, they must choose a chain. All empirical evidence points to one criteria for that choice; immediate profitability. This means that hash power is driven based on the price of the mining rewards.
There are two significant SHA256 proof of work chains, BCH and BTC. BTC has a difficulty adjustment algorithm that means that if hash power starts abandoning it at large scale within a period smaller than that it takes to mine 2016 blocks, it will die. BCH does not have this vulnerability and is also the better product.
The inevitable conclusion of the above simple empirical facts is this;
* A SHA256 Blockchain will reign until another POW algo has comparative deployment levels.
* The current BTC chain will be destroyed by BCH as soon as the price moves in a manner not favourable to BTC. At this point BCH will be the longest chain and will become by definition, Bitcoin.
* BCH will live forever.
* All other POW based blockchains are beta projects.
* No proven widely deployed proof of stake based chain has yet been deployed, so that part of the equation isn't even up for consideration at this stage.
Quit it with this "they're both ancient grandpa coins" nonsense. All of these things are DLTs and must be evaluated based upon their value *as* DLTs.

>>9124133
>3rd generation blockchain

>>9120661
Yes, 0xbicoin

>>9124133
POW is a wrong turn. We want uniform distribution of sampling from as large of a population as possible. As it stands, most of the hash power resides with a few select inviduals.
That said, BCH > BTC. Hopefully they go the full mile and remove POW.

>>9120661
XMR is the real bitcoin

>>9124677
> Reliable skin in the game is a mistake, what will really save the world is more democracy!
I'm sorry, but most humans aren't worth their chemical components. You will learn this as you age.

>>9124677
Stay out of BCH, dirty commie. Capitalists only

>>9124677
>remove POW
kys faggot

>>9120661
If you don't think about us why did you make an entire thread about us? Rent free, buddy. Rent free.

>>9124685
XMC is the real Monero.

Monero FUD is starting to get to me. idk what to do REEEEEEEE

>>9124689
35, the universe is rich and cares very little about waste.

>>9124695
Not a commie, I don't want wealth redistribution and am against taxation.

>>9124759
Can you really not think of any other way to sample randomly from a uniformly distributed space?

>>9120661
>Either Corecuck or Litecoiner
Join the winning side OP

>>9121603
When link moons I will move to some poor country, and marry 7 16 year olds, we'll all sleep in one giant bed to celebrate the 7777777 get.

>>9124880
Niggers who contribute nothing to a system and have enfranchisement will inevitably destroy said system. Which is why in order to vote in the US you were required to be a land owner. Now that welfare niggers and women can vote with no skin in the game, they system actively works against those who uphold it. The same can be said in bitcoin, just look at UASF. Its completely fucking ruined Bitcoin Core.

https://nchain.com/app/uploads/2017/07/Proof-of-Work-and-the-Firm.pdf

>>9121603
Brits?

>>9124954
The eternal slag is obvious.

>>9124938
I agree, I'm a big fan of POS and DPOS.

>>9124995
Those systems are cancer.

>>9125036
Good argument, very informative A+

>>9124880
> 35, the universe is rich and cares very little about waste.
This is what fatal viruses would tell themselves about their propagation rates, if they cared to rationalise them.
The universe is not rich, certain people are rich within it, and wealth is what they create, and if a virus is given free claim to that wealth, what incentive do they have to create it?
And if they do not, the universe is quite poor, actually.
And this is what always happens with socialism / communism, and why stake in the system is absolutely essential for any kind of sensibility. Anything less and you may as well simply directly invest in the creation of dysgenic people.

>>9125054
I already linked you a paper that goes over all this, inform yourself or don't. idc either way desu.

>>9125036
I think they could be fine if they were done in a way that gave the same outcome as POW.
That doesn't seem to be possible, though.

>>9120661
anti-bch shilling? This is one of the cases where I want both of you to go and stay go.

>>9125077
I'm talking about the goal of distribution of new minted wealth in a 'peoples currency', not the distribution of current wealth through corruptible governments. I agree with you.

>>9120936
>a fast, low-fee payment system.
it literally says none of this in the whitepaper.

No one can show me where it says anything about bitcoin being FAST or INEXPENSIVE

>>9124988
Hey, hey, hey
Wazzza Wazzza Waazzza Waaazzzzzaaa
I loovvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Raaaaaaaaaappppppppppppeeeeeee!

>>9121062
bitcoin XT, bitcoin Unlimited, bitcoin classic, bitcoin cash... all failed attempts at controlling bitcoin.

>>9125161
>peer to peer electronic cash should have low velocity

https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/989657463858253824
bitcoin CASHHHHHHH.

>>9125211
>posts screenshot of NOT the whitepaper

>>9125268
>peer to peer electronic cash
>not in the white paper

>>9125300
peer to peer doesn't mean fast or inexpensive...

>>9120661
>Not thinking about us at all
>10 fud threads a day
Nice one, corekeks.

>>9125132
The distribution of newly minted wealth in any currency is whatever the minter of said currency wants it to be.
If it is perfectly random however, we all know how that ends up, it's no coincidence that every moderately fair economic system in existence results in a pareto distribution for wealth. So you're basically just adding a step to the equation before the soviets are deprived of their shares in the previously owned state enterprises by the oligarchs.
They will be so deprived though, that is how these things always go, it's just a fact of nature.

>>9125090
> Once this investment is created, the
system is incentivised towards the protection of the earlier investment. This leads to a scenario known as a strategic oligopoly game.
This is discussing POS but applies to bitcoin (from your linked paper). I've exited my BTC position in October for alts. I still have BCH because I'm curious to where they will take it.
My main stakes are in NANO and IOTA but there are valid concerns on each about the viability of spam attacks from bad actors.

>>9125355
>peer to peer means it should be slow and expensive

>>9125378
>create FUD thread
>get everyone riled up
>play victim while also getting name recognition out there
>use opportunity to continue warping narrative
>"i'm a victim"
faggot, are you a burger or something

>>9125384
I agree, wealth accumulation is a game and it always ends up being accumulated by a few whales. Wealth saturation is also a thing and sets a ceiling on the utility of wealth.

>>9125389
>My main stakes are in NANO and IOTA

DAGs are decades old technology and were never implemented in this fashion before, mostly because they don't work as advertised.

>>9125411
Flippening is coming in November, stay mad corekek.
Your FUD threads are only making us stronger

>>9125400
peer to peer means no trusted third party. literally, it just means no third party.

>>9125428
DAGs are a data structure and are used literally everywhere.

>>9125456
You're implying they can't be fast and cheap.

>>9125466
DAGs can work in a centralized fashion like Hashgraph.

>>9125161
> No one can show me where it says anything about bitcoin being FAST
"A block header with no transactions would be about 80 bytes. If we suppose blocks are generated every 10 minutes"
> or INEXPENSIVE
The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions
You're really quite stupid, you know that, yes?

>>9125452
>create FUD thread
>get everyone riled up
>play victim while also getting name recognition out there
>use opportunity to continue warping narrative
>"i'm a victim"
faggot, are you a burger or something

>>9125420
The best thing you can do to actually give a fare shake at a fair economy to parties that might otherwise be sidelined, is to have a free market in money.
It is one thing to control the gold supply, it is harder yet to control gold and silver, and harder still to control gold, silver, and copper, but it is another league entirely of controlling every single bitstream that is ever emitted over the internet.
This is the one point I'll cede to "the common good", as long as it's always possible to start up a new fair blockchain, it keeps the existing market participants honest and not just acting as rentseekers on the economic activity of civilisation.

>>9125517
Flippening is coming in November, stay mad corekek.
Your FUD threads are only making us stronger

>>9125201

>Decentralized developmental are failed attempts at controlling bitcoin

This is why the world hates kikes

>>9125585
of course a retard like you is unable to see btc forks for the obvious money grabs that they are

>>9125607
*UASF's your coin*
>calls other forks a cash grab

>>9120661
Just the BTC shilling.

>>9125607

I sold all my BTC right after the fork and bought BCH with it. I didn't receive Bitcoin Gold, Diamond, Super Bitcoin, etc. Those are nothing but BTC money grabs thank you very much.

I'm only interested in holding the real Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash.

hmmmm

>>9125607
When did you get into crypto?
Did you know that ETH is also a fork, is it a money grab too then?

>>9125490

I am making no claim to be smart. I am however asking that the respectable BCH community show exactly in the whitepaper where SN says that btc should be FAST and CHEAP.

peer to peer means no third party. that's it as in NO BANK!

cash as a medium of exchange (you may have to visit a dictionary for this one) can also be defined as a check and checks can take two weeks to clear most banks.

I've read the whitepaper. No where does it say that bitcoin should be all these things that the LN folks and the BCH folks keep claiming that it says.

>>9125738
> I am making no claim to be smart. I am however asking that the respectable BCH community show exactly in the whitepaper where SN says that btc should be FAST and CHEAP.
I literally just fucking quoted that to you, you absolute fucking moron. Once every ten minutes is fast, and talking about the current state of electronic transactions in a context of them being too expensive when they're frequently under a dollar also means cheap.
And that's *just* in the white paper, if you look up the satoshi snack machine thread, you see he is interested in instant micropayment levels of cost and performance. That was the plan all along, it was never this frankenstein settlement shit blockstream thrust upon us, that is simply a story they sell to morons like you.

>>9125738
Checks and credit are by definition not cash. and ffs we've already gone over this, you're implying that peer to peer means slow and expensive. Just stfu already DAGfag.

>>9125738
>FAST and CHEAP
It says CASH, what more do you want faggot, you know what CASH means?

>increase blocksize limit
average blocksize <100KiB
>change difficulty adjustment
fuck it up
>???

>>9125721
yeah theres ignorant people everywhere. "we dont want your money because BCASH LOL".

>>9125770
>still doesn't post supporting documentation
>>9125777
>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cash
Definition of cash
1 : ready money
2 : money or its equivalent (such as a check) paid for goods or services at the time of purchase or delivery
>>9125782
see above... yes I know the definition of cash.

>>9125933
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+white+paper stupid cunt

>>9125933
>ready money
>slow and expensive

>>9125962
>let me google that for you

No where in SN whitepaper does it say the things Blockstream or Bitcoin Cash says that it does... you really should read it.

>>9120661
Yes. Telling people they should hold BTC.

>>9125932
did you ever see anyone accept Zimbabwe dollars anywhere?

>>9125990
as apposed to an Illiquid asset.

>>9126019
Bitconnect is a good investment if the alternative is USD

>>9120661
xrp shilling
they don't even bother to change filenames of their shillkit

>>9126031
>implying crypto has finished growing and current liquidity is as best as it gets

>>9126026
if some gave me 100 USD worth but in "Zimbabwe dollars" i wouldnt really care and just take the money

>>9126000
How fucking brainlet are you? I quoted it to you, and then I told you I quoted it to you, and then I linked you to the google search that contains it, and now once again I'm going to go ahead and fucking quote it to you and I'll put it in green so your ADHD doesn't fuck you too hard.;
CHEAP
> The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions
FAST
> "A block header with no transactions would be about 80 bytes. If we suppose blocks are generated every 10 minutes"

>>9126118
If he was smart he wouldn't be a corekek tho

>>9126398
Fuckin A, why are they all so fucking stupid? I guess that's a good sign right? If there's nobody of any appreciable intelligence left over there, everyone with half a brain has figured out the truth already.