/biz/ - Business & Finance

Bitcoin cash is the one true Bitcoin. It is Satoshi's vision realized.

>>8978091
Are you Satoshi? No? Then you don't know what his vision was.

I AGREE IF I YELL BCSH BCAH BCAH THE PRICE WILL CRASH TO ZERO

stupid pajeet.

What if i told you there was a way to turn bitcoin into more bitcoin?

It's called altcoins

Is this a joke? BCASHies are so fucked up. Enjoy poverty

Buy only Bitcoin. Bcash will cause world war 3. Bitcoin will replace the USD. We are the early adopters.

You trade altcoins for more bitcoin retard. Also RSK smart contracts will never happen because Blockstream thinks they bloat the blockchain.

Bitcoin cash? More like Bitcoin Crash, am I right guys? ;)

>>8978106
Read the whitepaper faggot.
Cash should have BTC name, not Core.

It's going to be so funny when bitcoin (BCH) comes back and the people who brought BlocksTreamCore(BTC) at $15-20k realize that blockstream scammed them out of their money - or rather the OG bitcoiners dumped their blockstream sewgwit-fork coin on them at $15-20k. The boomer normies didn't buy the real bitcoin. They didn't even buy both BTC and BCH to hedge.
HAHA they brought a science-fair fork just because it had the BTC ticker next to it and now they are going to lose 90% of their money when the original Bitcoin (exact same code with block limits released) is back on top

>>8978154
I have read the whitepaper. It already says it in the title: Bitcoin. No Bitcoin Cash is ever mentioned.

>>8978161
What's the original bitcoin if it's not bitcoin?

>>8978178
They both forked off at the same time from the same chain. Both BCH and BTC their chain trace back to the original 2009 Bitcoin genesis block. They are both bitcoin. But one has a better claim.
The changes made to BTC take it away from usefulness to the people of the world and give the coin into the hands of bankers and the elite by requiring banks and exchanges to act as nodes for transactions. BCH, currently labeled Bitcoin Cash on exchanges, is however the version of Bitcoin that performs best for the common people - fast transactions with almost no fee that people can send to each other with no middleman - sticks to the founders vision (satoshi) and sticks to bitcoins libertarian roots.

>>8978057

Repent and Bitcoin Cash shall receive you, for now and always

>>8978243
>genisis block

wtf are you somekind of BCASH nerd? Stop thinking and reading. START TRUSTING CHARLIE LEE AND TONED VASE.

DROP BCASH AND BUY THE ONLY TRU CRPTO, BITCOIN

>>8978057
Is this what you thought a btc thread that doesn't involve price should look like? Holy fucking delusional

>>8978292
wut?

>>8978311

The corecucked OP created a thread about Bcore and then proceeded to spam 'bcash' as his lead argument on why bcore is better than Bitcoin (Cash).

Pretty fucking retarded tbhq, I can't even remember the last time I saw a pro-bcore thread with an actual discussion on the positives/negatives and future of bcore.

>>8978057
i know you joke but bitcoin cash looks like it'll have a much brighter future than old bitcoin

Daily reminder that BTC has no scaling solution. Lightning network is an absolute meme propped up by censorship and shillbots.
That is all.

Pic related, exactly what happened in December and exactly what will happen as soon as we get even the faintest semblance of volume because the coin was fucking CASTRATED with 1mb transaction limits.

>>8978374
>getting scared of the incoming BCH dump
Don't worry, you can still just buy BTC before this happens. LN is soon ready and will drive adoption to ATH. BCash is inherently worthless, a floor without any support.

>>8978393
i keep watching his "jump" over and over again, how did he reach this competitive level?

>>8978424
something is wrong with his left leg? looks like it fell asleep

>>8978405

LN is a piece of shit and will never be ready.

I am supremely confident in Bitcoin (BCH)'s ability to overtake a kiked shitcoin like Bcore. So much so I am 100% in BCH and not worried at all, I post only to counter the extreme propaganda campaign plaguing crypto which is being paid for by Blockstream/AXA/Mastercard.

>>8978452
you're right, it moves strangely before he tries to jump

> ln on mainnet
> still shilling bch
just realize how hard roger cucked you and cut your losses already

tone vays is a rat

>>8978454
>I am supremely confident in Bitcoin (BCH)
kek, suit yourself, it is your money that you are throwing away in the end, not mine
I am here just to tell the truth. Can't do anything about sheep, who never listen.

>>8978520
doesn't look like it has a centralization effect at all no-siree!

show me a working path selection/routing protocol that can scale to worldwide adoption but is also somehow better than on-chain broadcast-to-all
spoiler: you can't. it will never scale

>>8978057
Fuck this shit. I'm filtering all the bitcoins. I don't give a fuck.

>>8978561

You're actually fucking deluded. Stop posting and go do some research outside of /r/bitcoin dumbarse.

>>8978520
tell me sir, what have you actually bought through Lightning Network?

>>8978571
> centralization
point me to the single point of failure bruh. tell me how is the centralization going to fuck with the functionality?

> show me a working path selection/routing protocol that can scale to worldwide adoption but is also somehow better than on-chain broadcast-to-all
"oh no an open research question how will we ever deal with that" in the meantime tell me how a blockchain will scale to 20 million users. remember, the whitepaper said TRUSTLESS, not "trust craig wright's $20k nodes"

>>8978622
your mom

Bcash supporters deserve to be taken their money away.

>>8978057
Brown poo tag

>street shitter confirmed

>>8978653
lightning inevitably mirrors the current banking system because there's an economic incentive to form into large hubs, which means on-ramps and off-ramps to target and control, primarily from government entities.
this is something Bitcoin destroyed when it was created, but Blockstream wants to put it back.

so much more to say on this, but it should be obvious to anyone that looks into it... and it's 230am and i should be sleeping, however...

open research question? hah. im a network engineer. if lightning devs figure out how to create a path selection protocol that scales to the entire planet, they will have made the bulk of the technology in my industry obsolete overnight.

BGP is the protocol that runs the high-level internet path routing. it's highly centralized, mostly manually managed, and is a ***trusted*** system. it assumes no bad actors, as do all other current routing protocols - if there IS a bad actor involved, it's network techs job to manually route around them.
this is why china/russia 'accidentally' hijack worldwide traffic sometimes.

lightning is supposed to run a routing protocol better than anything the internet has (BGP is massively simpler than LN, but it can't scale anywhere near to worldwide use; the internet is thousands&thousands of smaller independent networks)

not to mention that the hardware required to run something like BGP in a single worldwide network? definitely only enterprise-level companies could run that type of node.

and they want every phone/laptop to be able to compute that route selection, receiving channel updates from every other device on the network? jesus christ

>>8978653
>your mom
kek, my suspicion were correct

>>8978786
>Is Bitcoin Cash dead?
YES. This is what I am telling.

>>8978555
*jew

>>8978821
what can i say, its perfect for low-value transactions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>8978786
well worst case scenario if you put a hard limit of how much of the graph you keep in memory/how much pathfinding you do and your target node is outside of it, you just open a direct channel? cant do that with physical cables so its a fundamentally different problem space.

and wtf is on-chain scaling supposed to help with that? 7.6 billion users * 1 kb of tx data per month = 7.6 terabyte of tx data per month. good luck scaling that, bro

>>8978828
sigh. whatever, go blindly support your jew overlords.
happily cheer on the banks and elite
wait for LN to scale with starry eyes (then die of old age)

i'm proud to be a cashie. we're the ones who believe in Bitcoin: A peer-to-peer cash system
a system that will take over the world
a system that will help everyone, even corecucks, but especially the poor

so fuck off and watch us work

>>8978091
hmmmmmmm

Corecucks are the most vile thing in creepto, they're so entitled like they own literally gold when it's really just supposed to be a fucking currency.

>>8978520
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8d759v/ln_fud_debunked_podcast_debunked/

>>8978967
you know what? i wouldnt mind having a beer with you sometime. you dont seem like a dude who's in it for bad reasons, we just disagree on what is the best approach.

i also believe in bitcoin as a p2p cash system but i put high value in the feasibility of full verification of the blockchain layer, and prefer scaling to happen (mostly) in higher layers.

if you're really a network engineer, this article might speak to you: https://medium.com/@melik_87377/lightning-network-enables-unicast-transactions-in-bitcoin-lightning-is-bitcoins-tcp-ip-stack-8ec1d42c14f5

>>8978057
so you're saying that the $160 worth of BTC i bought in mid 2016 would have been worth more than 7 BTC today if I had just held it?
FML

>>8979024
>https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8d759v/ln_fud_debunked_podcast_debunked/

you really want me to pull apart that pile of bullshit?

>>8978938
poor user experience because that means failed transactions.
for lightning to actually provide a scaling solution it needs to have mass adoption. for mass adoption that means the majority of tx happen in lightning, not on-chain.
this means miners will demand higher fees, otherwise they will stop mining and move to other chains.
this is why blockstream desires high fees, they're needed to support the network.

if you have the choice: spend $5 but $1 goes to fees, or spend $5 and $0.001 goes to fees, what do you choose?
aka: new users won't adopt the high-fee option and will flock to the low-fee

7.6bln is overestimating - i doubt many toddlers will be making tx, for example.
let's say 5bln make 30tx per month@250b/tx. thats 37.5TB/month, massive amount huh.
but consider, that usage won't be reached for a long time, and tech always advances. 100mb ethernet cable was 'impossible' once too...

also consider, if the planet is using on-chain, 37.5TB/month right NOW.
yes only for corporations, but it's easily doable - there would still be tens of thousands of active nodes online.
more than there are now.

>>8978057
Ethereum, Monero, and Chainink are also useful

>>8978864
Yeah, and they finish almost as quick as you.

>>8979071

cuck

>>8979088
RSK makes Ethereum + LINK redundant.
Monero will be replaced by BTC mixers

BTC really is the one coin to rule them all

>>8979071
>7.6bln is overestimating - i doubt many toddlers will be making tx, for example.
you really think the global userbase for money is not going to increase over time? the only way for that to happen is genocide

>>8979107
>Segwit will solve everything #623456

>>8979102
at least her pussy is nice and stretched out, most bitches are too tight for me

>>8979035
Thanks for the link, but it doesn't give any answers.

>What else do we know?
>We can further route transactions to their correct destination.

That's the articles entire explanation of the route selection - in other words, none.

Bitcoin is a broadcast correct, but it's a fire-and-forget system. there is no state maintained between nodes.
a tx doesn't even need to be broadcast to everyone - just a miner who includes it in their own block. other nodes will then request the tx when they need it.

you can't unicast path something if there is no path to take. this is the LN problem.
even the LN devs have said that the current implementation will 'get painful' once it hits a certain number of nodes
why? because the gossip protocol it uses will eventually broadcast-storm it into oblivion, because it's a stateful map that all devices need to update

if you reduce the size of the map to increase scale you decrease the usability as proportionally more channel setups (tx) will fail

and the answer from LN is to 'do an on-chain tx then'

>>8979133
see: increasing technology advancements
not every atari needs to be able to independently host the worlds currency system

>>8979197
so far there aren't any solutions to the problem of using bitcoin trustlessly without full verification. i see that as a more fundamental problem than the routing problem of ln, but lets agree to disagree i guess

>>8979168
No, yours is as small as those 1MB blocks which also fall under pressure.

>>8979219
you do realize the btc blocks are bigger than 1mb now, right?

>>8979227
How funny that you count Segwit transactions as real BTC transactions. Must be how you justify that strap-on too.

>>8979216
verifiable checkpoints on the UTXO set, eliminates the need to host the entire chain history.
i imagine companies and enthusiasts would still host the entire data set as it's done now, they'd act like the equivalent of root DNS servers for the entire tree

suddenly HDD size requirement is basically nothing, just bandwidth

>>8979246
i cant help it that your mom insisted on DP and i insisted on being the only guy in the room. maybe your daddy is a bit gay but id rather use a strapon to fuck her ass while i dump my load in her pussy

>>8979265
sure, utxo commitments are a great idea, but the bandwidth is the big problem here, especially since every node needs to receive every transaction, which makes the scaling problem O(n^2) which, you know, fucking sucks

>>8979288
The only DP here is the one happening on you right now. You let yourself be fucked by Blockstream and Core, why else would you promote another failure like yourself such as Lightning.

>>8978106
Read the whitepaper, brainlet.

>>8978864
lightning network works really well when sending 0 amount across it

>>8979497
not sure if that was meant as an insult to ln or your own mom

>>8979513
to you for promoting lightning network despite not even using it

>>8979538
im using it

>>8979406
Whitepaper says it really clearly: Bitcoin. There is no Bitcoin Cash in the whitepaper.

>>8978997
and clearly you know nothing about on-chain & 2nd layer scaling

>>8979057
nice argument lel

watch BCH scale to billions of tx/s and cry your socialist tears

>>8979612
https://txhighway.com/

im watching. lets see if memo.cash can spam enough to make that highway look like anything other than pic related

>>8979633
>everything I don't like is spam
Bitter

>>8978161
You’re ducking retarded bcash is just a shittier BTC fork...IT HAS MORE THAN 10 TIMES THE SUPPLY AS BTC THERES NO WAY IT IS SATOSHIS VISION OR THE ORIGINAL BTC
The shills pushing bcash are probably poorfags who had about .1 BTC when it formed and are still holding thier FREE 1 bcash.
Fuck bcash

>>8979673
im an optimization guy, i consider using expensive resources (blockchains have high underlying resource usage and are therefore expensive) for silly shit that doesnt need it (you can make censorship-resistant decentralized social media without a blockchain) is spam to me, yes

>>8979683
you're retarded, there's no such thing as x10 supply

>>8979051
No but you COULD have tethered/sold for fiat and bought back in at a lower price and maybe yea you could have bad 7 btc but NOO YOU JUST HAD TO BUY DOGEFUCKINGCOIN,
TRANNYCOIN AND PEDOCOIN AND NOW YOUR .001 BTC is worth .00001

>>8979718
meh, fucked up that first sentence but im sure you get my point

Hey LINK.. I mean cashews. Shilling works best when it isn't as obvious as you do it. Now get back to the shithole you came from you are not helping

>all these faggots shitting up the board at this very minute
just fuck off back to whatever shithole you crawled out from
wish the board had actual rules and mods

>>8979718
>blockchains have high underlying resource usage and are therefore expensive
The blockchain itself, not the use of it.
>you can make censorship-resistant decentralized social media without a blockchain
No you can't. That's why Julian Assange uses it to prove he is alive. Don't spread lies to attack everything you don't like.

>>8979797
No you can't. That's why Julian Assange uses it to prove he is alive. Don't spread lies to attack everything you don't like.

very different usecases, you only need the blockchain for proof of timestamp, not to spread the picture of yourself.

Everyone here, go check out r/btc right now. Take your time and actually read the shit they are spewing there. Holy crap, these guys.

>>8979863
>going to reddit
you go back there, and stay

>>8979863
r/btc is a corporate shill sub, over half of the mods (if not all) are part of 1 company

>>8979882
>>8979887
We should get these cucks of r/btc to join /biz/ and see the truth in the crypto world.

>>8979922
>willing to bring more reddit here
GTFO RRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8979936
its too late, we already have people itt who want moderation. fucking tards

>>8979558
you're running it, not using it.

>>8979969
the nice thing about ln is that even if you're one of my channel partners, you cant tell whether i am using it :)

Notice the pajeet use of CAPS amongst corefags?

>>8979936
Yes, only the people who are willing to come here though. Reddit is a censored shithole. Coming here will really help most of them.

>>8979852
You can only make the information itself censorship resistant, not the site itself without a blockchain.

Jesus Christ! BTC supporters here can't be this retarded. Every time I see BCash it must be a hidden anti-BTC shill. In all my years online I never came across such a dumb community as the BTC one.

>>8979995
LOL

lol no one cares about bcash, fuck off shills

>>8980003
They don't even have any valid arguments against bch and speak broken english. Put 2 and 2 together.

>>8979718
Looks like you're the one who doesn't understand any of this. How are miners supposed to make money to keep the network? BTC wants to move away from PoW, but there's no evidence that could work out in reality, it'll essentially require the reward to be much smaller, otherwise you end with banks.

>>8979633
wonder how it would look if all traffic were just donations and purchase of goods and services (all traffic too and from exchanges were excluded)

>>8980013
>more "your mom" arguments
If it's so funny please tell me how then. Assuming a site like Wikileaks was censor-ship resistant, how would they achieve that without a Blockchain? What is stopping someone from making Wikileaks redirect to a picture of poop, or to a malicious malware site?

>>8979981
had you just said earlier that you were using it i would have believed you but you just said "your mom" instead...

>>8979991
no no no no no
you see what happens when their shitholes get slow and a bunch of those fucksticks decide to come here and spam their shit threads not understanding how 4chan works. 4chan should block users from posting who have reddit traces in their cache. It is unbearable. Shitcoin shills posting their hourly buy my bags thread is one thing, but a bunch of homos like the reddit folk just spamming and spamming and spamming their uninformed lies, half truths and really really really shitty memes lets things come up in me like willing to use a third of my stack to pay for a hit on their heros, just to see them moan about the dead of VerJihan

>>8980042
wtf are you talking about? btc doesnt want to move away from pow, thats eth

>>8980049
well wed have to assume a radically different architecture of the internet/what a site is, and "apply moar blockchain" isn't going to work without that either. closest thing to censorship-resistant websites we have right now is something like a hidden service on tor, and that doesnt use a blockchain either

>>8980065
if you cant handle a little shitposting mixed into the truth you shouldnt be here

>>8980080
You unironically want them to get crypto info on a censored site? I say, let them see a free speech forum. I actually want to help other people. Also, once they come here they might just understand that their BCH is a scam and finally sell it.

>>8980113
no I want reddit user to unironically die on ass aids under a bridge

>>8980106
Tor services are anonymous not censorship resistant. that's why the Silk Road was able to be shut down.

>>8980126
Well, if they come here, maybe they wont be reddit users any longer and you wouldn't want them to die. What about that?

>>8980106
>if you cant handle a little shitposting mixed into the truth you shouldnt be here
i just asked a simple question and you found it so outrageous that you had to reply with "your mom". are you here to spread the truth (educate) or just to blow smoke? acting the way you do doesn't exactly convert anyone to your side...

>>8980136
silk road was able to be shut down because dpr failed his opsec and shilled silkroad on the clearnet with his real name, not because of a technical failure/limitation in tor

>>8980145
sure im willing to educate people, just not about my own buying habits ;)

>>8980148
It doesn't matter. It was censored, and he could have easily done it himself in order to sway public opinion like they do on Reddit and Facebook.

>>8980142
you sound awfully lot like a reddit user
so please, get some ass aids and die under a bridge

>>8980163
I hope you choke on bcash

>>8978106
Satoshi's vision = trick tards into buying the most useless and ancient crypto so he can constantly dump bags on them.

We all know eth is going to overtake byc at somepoint, as there is 0 real use for btc.
Sorry that you bought btc for 15k OP

this thread has gone to shit im out

>>8980199
Tripfag tier post

>>8980182
>wants to bring more redditors to 4chan
>to convert them
As a 4chan user I want to be left alone, not convert anybody and just shitpost. If I would want a circle jerk and some good karma, I could be on reddit or kikebook, and farm likes and upvotes. So please, if you like to bring cashews the light, get to there hub and convert them there. DONT BRING THEM HERE FJFHCV

>>8980159
you could have said anything other than "your mom" and made it apparent that you were using lightning. now it just looks like you're trying to fake that "your mom" meant "none of your business" instead of "i dont actually use lightning for anything". we both know you dont use LN for anything because there's only like three places in the world that actually accept payments through lightning

the paid bcash shilling on biz is surpassing bazingacoin levels

>>8980222
>as a 4chan user

>>8980250

The paid shilling for blockstream on /biz/ has reached record levels. It is quite apparent blockstream is getting quite fearful of Bitcoin Cash and has ramped up their propaganda campaign.

This time they appear to be attacking smart investors for advising people to make the smart investment - buying Bitcoin Cash.

Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin.

>>8980657
no.

>>8978057
FUCK BCASH,
/biz will never join you Roger, I know your pussy ass is reading this, along with your paid shrills.

>>8978057
I can smell your desperation

>>8978057
I know you can't back thes claims with a single shred a proof, you know this aswell. So why bother? I can't consider this information. Its just usless.