/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>8699591
Why hasn't this been done to begin with? What is atomic swaps?

What are the repercussions with this?

>>8699591
nucoiners baka

>>8699591
fuck off shitcoiner

BTC will lose most of its value if this happens. It's really up to the exchanges if they wana make this move

>>8699680
at that point, xmr is more valuable than btc

>>8699680
>>8699591


Obviously FUD but I hope this happens though.

But I doubt it, to many mega rich that would allow that not to happen.

>>8699591
What alternative unit of account do you propose for the altcoin market ? ETH ? Lol

>>8699591
I agree. There’s no reason for it. It must end. It makes absolutely no sense that they’re coupled.

>>8699704
Dollars, or whatever local currency is in use, or Tether. That’s how it works for Bitcoin.

>>8699658
It hasnt been done because all your retarded "fast transaction" alt coins have essentially zero security and zero censorship resistance and would be shut down by a determined well funded actor in minutes.
If they ever get significant marketshare you will see this in action.

>>8699704
TUSD or fiat directly once exchanges come out with on-ramps

This is why we need direct USD pairings or whatever local currency you are using.

stupid, childish demand but that's what you expect from manchild reddit investors
nobody wants to add them to a fiat exchange because they are shitcoins(and legal minefields)
BTC is viewed as the prime measure of market health because the others are shitcoins

whether or not other cryptos decouple is entirely dependent upon widespread confidence and adoption in them, which won't happen because you whine on the internet(because they are shitcoins)

>>8699777
Trips of truth. Bitcoin has the majority of the hashing power, end of story. Alts will be directly attached to BTC's price forever, it's how the market is structured.

>>8699591
>when even fucking reddit finally manages to see it
2017 was year of bitcoin
2018 will be year of pedos and pyramids
god bless

>>8699680
Or alt Will drop in value because they are based on pure speculation

>>8699591
>reddit
bud

>>8699748
So why are ETH, BCH and LTC following BTC ?

Crypto exist thanks to BTC. BTC is the only legit coin actually since the owner is "Satoshi Nakamoto" and not your random exit scammer.

>>8699777
based

This site is full of tryhards.

the reality is that all crypto is worthless. if the oldest, most trusted, battle hardened of them loses value then it only makes sense that the others are worth even less than that

>>8699852
this

>>8699591
Will Coinmetro solve the coupling problem?

>>8699859
once they run away with the money

>>8699777
>>8699800
Fucking checked

>>8699876
kek

>bitcoin name too big
>everything measured in sats
>every single exchange apart from etherdelta will need to be reprogrammed
>too many investors and big fish who run things will get JUSTed (and they won't allow this to happen to themselves)
>some other centralized coin might take its monopoly place instead automatically which comes with its own share of problems

>>8699591
but bitcoin has been grossly outperforming the market for a few months now.

if anything is tanking the market its eth and its shitcoin erc20 icos which continually get their bags dumped

>>8699591
newcoiners and their "BTC decoupling" again

If everything was decoupled from BTC, the BTC bullrun from $1000 (back in March 2017) to whatever the price is now would've left all the ETH XRP etc. holders behind

Listen to >>8699852

The only way to get to a bubble the size of dotcom or 2008 housing (meaning trillions in $ marketcap), is to get the BIG money in. And they won't buy in if there is the ever looming threat of the newest coin tech (or the latest fork) "obsoleting" your current store-of-value you are sitting in.

You newcoiners should be cheering BTC, because when it moons, it brings EVERYTHING up along with it.

I personally hold mostly ETH, but I understand that it has really just been playing back and forth from 0.03 to 0.1, even though it went from $13 (when I bought in) all the way up to over a thousand bucks, I accept that it's just BTC's run up dragging it up along with it.

>>8699726
>>8699734
>>8699748

>we need to save crypto by using fiat even more

>>8699726
>>8699734
>>8699748
More trading pairs is what kills alts when BTC goes up, because of arbitrage.

If an altcoin has multiple pairings
e.g. ALT/BTC, ALT/USDT, ALT/ETH
it becomes susceptible to arbitrage.

Say the current price is:
BTC - $10000
ALT/BTC - 0.01 ($100)
ALT/USD - $100

Then BTC rises to $11000 in a single candle. Before any arbitrage happens, the current prices are suddenly:
BTC - $11000
ALT/BTC - 0.01 ($110)
ALT/USD - $100

Arb bots will immediately see this discrepancy, and buy the cheaper asks on the ALT/USD market, to dump it on the (now more expensive) bids on the ALT/BTC market. This is why alts with multiple pairings tend to suffer in their BTC-paired market when BTC goes up significantly. But alts that have no other pairings are usually unaffected.

Alt-heavy hodlers asking for more pairings have NO IDEA what they are asking for.

>>8699922
zez

>>8699591
While I agree, I fucking can’t stand people on that god forsaken website. Let the free market handle it, we don’t need something done NOW because your feelings are hurt. Jesus fuck I don’t even understand how people can lurk that website.

>>8700006
This would also involve burying grandpa, of course

>>8699591
>winning

This is why Bitcoin Cash exists duh, the real Bitcoin.

>>8699727
What are you invested in? You sound like you know your shit.

>>8699805
XMR & XRP have real utility.

>>8700006
Which is why you'd want to peg to USD. You won't have insane swings. Plus, HFT is already taking over this market. In another 6 months, there will be CFX arb and exchange arb. I could also see a modified version of ADR arb if some of the quant funds get creative with how to redeem the trading pairs.

In other words, this is a moot point for retail investors by Q3.

Welcome to institutional money.

>>8699591
yeah but how do you know which of the 1500 shitcoins is worth the hassle to create a fiat pairing for ?

there’s propably a lot of things to obey when selling meme coins for real cash so adding new pairs is at least to some degree risky and expensive to exchanges.

also 95% of exchanges would need to introduce new pairings to start decoupling. BTC is just THE entry/exit point for fiat to the whole market.

There’s no way a decoupling will happen anytime soon.

>>8699727
Bitcoin is a relic from the past. It still uses archaic technology. It has slow transactions. It also has a public ledger. Bitcoin's only benefit is its first mover advantage. Its just like MySpace.

>In the end rationality will prevail

Monero (XMR) is the only crypto which is private and anonymous BY DEFAULT.

It is the only crypto with an actual practical use.

The entire crypto market is filled with vapourwares/shitcoins/scamcoins/memecoins and coins that are pipe dreams with empty promises.

It is no wonder that Monero (XMR) is being widely accepted in dark markets.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-02/criminal-underworld-is-dropping-bitcoin-for-another-currency

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@crazyflashpie/monero-is-not-an-altcoin-the-arrival-of-fungible-digital-money

https://topnews.one/2197-monero-is-the-favorite-cryptocurrency-of-cyber-criminals-study-finds.html

>Monero (XMR) is just like early stage of Bitcoin. Remember when hackers used bitcoin malwares and botnets to mine bitcoin. Monero (XMR) is following the same path as Bitcoin but the major change is that Monero (XMR) corrected all the "flaws" of bitcoin. (Public ledger, traceable transactions, lack of anonymity, lack of fungibility).

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malware-epidemic-monero-mining-campaigns-are-becoming-a-real-problem/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/crypto-mining-malware-monero-jenkins/amp/

https://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security-intelligence/monero-mining-hiddenminer-android-malware-can-potentially-cause-device-failure/

>In the end the irrational crypto market will correct itself. (Crypto bubble crash)

All shitcoins, memecoins, scamcoins, vapourwares, coins that are simply pipe dreams with empty promises. All will sink into oblivion and no one will ever remember them.

>BitttBurger

>>8699591
>pajeet thinks his shitcoin woud moon withou btc

fucking late adopters. why would any shitcoin apart from maybe ethereum decouple from bitcoin, when the entire purpose of all of them is to speculatively try and increase the number of bitcoin you own.

>>8700575
monero is also ancient tech as far as privacy goes, it's literally just mixing built into the currency, nothing more.

if you're going to be one of those late adopters crying about old tech, thinking tech matters, then you can't cling to any coin like you are now, because they will all trend to zero long term. but of course, that isn't happening.

>>8699818
Wrong, crypto exists because the retarded virgins over at Blockstream deliberately stalled development of BTC by not increasing block size, denying Vitalik from building smart contracts on top of BTC, etc.

All alt coins are scams because the scammers knew there was a huge window of opportunity to make money off of all you retards before regulation becomes relevant and only one coin will exists - as more legitimate coins come out over the years ahead, they will all be paired with that one coin since it will be able to do anything that any other coin could.

>>8700575
BTC isnt myspace, its microsoft.
Cry all you want there will be one result.

WHY ARE BE GOING UP OH MY GOD

It's not enough to just add fiat pairs. You actually have to remove BTC pairs. And most exchanges must agree to do that. Sure, some of the so called "oldfags" will get mad, but I guess we'll just laugh at them.

>>8700632
you really think blockstream had anything to do with them denying opcodes?

why do late adopters try and talk like they were even around a year ago, let alone 5.

>>8700675
>the first crypto has to be the most successful
Unfortunately BTC is where the money is, so a decoupling will likely never occur. But I think in the future more alts will be paired with the chain they use, i.e. Ethereum or EOS. Also more fiat onramps will lead to more fiat pumping the market which is only a good thing

>>8700623
Monero upgrades its technology and hard forks on a regular basis so as to keep up with change unlike other privacy coins.


>>8700675
I hope you'll have fun when Satoshi Nakomoto dumps his bags you. Bitcoin holders will be forever remembered in history as the "cucked ones".

>>8700745
they cannot upgrade the fundamental core of the tech without effectively having to start over, and there's little incentive when it gets to that stage, when the new tech will undoubtedly have it's own coin.

monero got lucky the first time, because zcash launched too early, when the tech wasn't ready, and they completely fucked up supply stealing 20% of all mining rewards.

Why are most of the replies some form of:

>Your shit coin would be worth nothing without BTC propping it up

?

If the coin can't stand on it's own without bitcoin propping it up, then it needs to fuckin fail. This is how shit projects like XVG, TRX, LINK, etc. are still around. Let the shit crash and burn, only worthwhile projects will survive.

All cryptos are useless and cannot scale. Bitcoin in fact is the only coin with adoption. So the entire premise of that idiot redditor is retarded.

>>8700774
Because it's true you fucking dumb fuck. I thought biz was a smarter place than reddit.

>>8700745
When the magawhales dumo BTC will have lost its last competitive weakness. Fingers crossed I get to see that.

>>8700818
dump

>>8700813
Who's saying it isn't true? It very likely is true, but who gives a fuck?

If you invested in a shitcoin/project and you lost all your money because BTC wasn't subsidizing it, then that's on you my man.

Bunch of corecucks corecucking in this thread. I thought we were better than this biz

>>8699941
the btc bullrun of august did leave eth behind
nobody cared about btc in march when they bought eth for smart contracts, it pumped from 0.03 btc to 0.15 btc
ditto in december from 0.04 btc to 0.11
eth stalls when btc pumps and pumps when btc stalls

>>8700911
and on the flipside, btc brings eth down with it when it goes down
btc is really a cancer on eth

>>8699591
Yeah like the US dollar needs to stop being the global standard.

It will take at least a year for fiat pairs to actually catch on. In the mean time you will just have what you have on Kucoin, low volume fiat with it following the current btc price.

I stopped holding BTC last year and have done pretty well as a result. But the honest problem here is that coins should not be linked to Bitcoin like this, not to this extent.

>>8700866
>corecucks
well that's one way to out yourself as a late adopter. thankfully not everyone only found out about crypto in the last 1-4 years.

>>8700932
>Yeah like the US dollar needs to stop being the global standard.

The USD makes sense though. LOL why would BTC logically have any effect on coins that actually matter?

BTC and Doge, other meme scam coins that have no real reason to exist should not effect the market. At least the USD is relevant.

>>8699818
>Satoshi Nakamoto
>literally exited years ago
>not your random exit scammer
wew lad

>>8700959
I bought bitcoin in 2011 and call corecucks corecucks, what's your point?

>>8699668
So ETH is a shitcoin to you?

>>8700971
>any effect on coins that actually matter?

hahahaha, what coins actually fucking matter? Bitcoin was the first one, the only widely recognizable cryptocurrency in the world and the trading pair of every alt coin that exists

>>8700978
sure you did pal.

>>8701011
>I really did though, corecuck. Go suck luke jrs corecock

>>8701004
>what coins actually fucking matter?

Steem matters a fucking lot to me right now. I am pulling a shitty but sustainable income right now. I use it for all kinds of things from blogging, building a following, movies / videos streaming.

Why the fuck is my shit being effected by a meme coin? I would be doing so much fucking better right now FUCK!!!!

>>8701023
Oops didn't mean to greentext that

>>8700911
ETH's market cycle is going back and forth between 0.03 and 0.1-0.2 repeatedly, regardless of BTC's USD trend (going up or down).

So you can't say BTC wasn't bringing ETH up with it and it was just ETH increasing in USD value alone.

Like for example PIVX, it goes back and forth between 30k sat and 100k sat. When BTC was going up from $1k to $3-5k, it was crashing from 100k sat to 30k sat (losing hodlers 1/3 of their BTC).

But it went from $1 to over $10.
You can't say that that's not because of BTC's run.

Even though ETH and PIVX were crashing BTC-wise, and hodlers of these coins saw their BTC value go to 1/3 of their buy in, they were still achieving USD moons thanks to BTC.

Even though ETH went only back and forth between 0.03 and 0.2, it STILL went from $13 to over $1000.

That does not count as "leaving behind", it brings alts up, they only underperform because of their own market cycles.

Reserve-based exchangers like Bancor and Kyber already allow any currency pairs you like. They're also faster, cheaper and more secure than regular exchanges.

>maybe people will start using them once they integrate bitcoin...

It drives me fucking insane right now that my account value on steem is going down because of fucking meme bitcoin ponzi while the adoption of the steemit platform is increasing. Literally no fucking reason at all that steem, a coin I actually use every day, should be effected by fucking Bitcoin.

Its like if the Mexican Peso caused people to make less money for monetized videos on Youtube.

FUCK BITCOIN, AND FUCK ALL OF YOU BCORE MORONS. Your shitcoin has zero fucking use, the lightning network is shit. Decoupling has got to fucking happen.

>>8701148
They're all ponzis you dumb ass. Bitcoin is the king of ponzis, and without the king, your shitcoin (that has no advantage over other social networks) will be worth pennies and no one would actually use it dumb fuck.

>>8699591
Bitcoin is the only thing keeping your overinflated shitcoins afloat. Real market value of literally every ERC20 company, almost all of which are complete vaporware or just a marketing team and nothing else, are like $15-20 million each and that's generous.

You idiots fucking need Bitcoin and you don't even realize it.

BITCOIN NEEDS TO DIE FOR CRYPTO TO LIVE

>>8699726
HAHAHAHAHA
FUCKING NOOBS

ITT: summerfags jelly at the bitcoin masterrace. dump your shitcoins already faggots.

This discussion is useless. The awareness of bitcoin peaked. That's all that matters. Since there is no fundamental value in cryptocurrencies since they can't scale by definition (hence the increase in fees and transaction times), the only way the price can increase is by an increase in awareness. Every Joe now knows about Bitcoin so the only value it had (i.e. fooling the next person to buy) is gone. Since all other cryptos are no different, Bitcoin will remain to be the global index of all cryptos, hence pretty much ending all possible crypto bull runs. Screencap this post, and come back to this year after year you realize I am right.

t. Crypto holder since 2011 who was smart enough to sell before the utter collapse in this market.

>>8701220
Its not a ponzi if I use the coin for services that are relevant. Also I dont give a flat fuck at all what your "if it wasnt for bitcoin blah blah blah"

I use steem / SBD every fucking day. It is highly relevant and it has been productive. The reason you don't understand this is because you have no fucking clue what this concept could even be like. You are so deluded and fucking retarded that it never occured to you that a social media page based around a crypto could exist and function in a relevant manor. You probably have no clue how the ability to monitize videos on Youtube effected that platform either. You are probably so fucking stupid you think "EVERYTHING IS A PONZI SO IT DOESNT MATTER!" or something completely fucking asinine like that.

Meanwhile steem/sbd actually has a reason to exist and encourages content creators while also being high resistant to censorship in a day and age where censorship is a fucking huge problem. Its a massive value proposition and is super under valued right now mainly because of fucking dumb fucks with zero fucking arguments insisting that Bitcoin is worth more than 10 cents each then massive wash trading bot forms use other coins as a way to generate value around BTC.

ITS A FUCKING SCAM. You probably KNOW its a scam. You are full of fucking shit. You probably KNOW you are full of shit.

Bitcoin effecting steem is so fucking nonsensical. Adoption of Steemit is increasing! But the value of steem is going down! Gotta wash trade BTC up guys, lets leech off coins that matter!

Lets seriously discuss taking BTC off exchanges. We need to remove BTC from exchanges.

>>8699777
Checked, this so much.

>>8701237

Why is this a positive????

Why are you arguing in favor of a system that literally props up vaporware scams???

I think maybe one thing that needs to happen is when BTC starts to decline there should be larger and larger fees to do bitcoin transactions. This would prevent wash trading bots from being able to leech off the value increase of other coins.

That would be a good first step. Maybe remove BTC from exchanges entirely would be even better. If you guys want to be a part of the market again maybe you can like adopt doge or other such BTC derivatives.

This is what BACE will do, don't miss this. Pre-Sale starts today.

>>8700959
I’m an earlier adopter than you. I just realised early on that I didn’t want to support the gen x bagholders who do nothing but shit on better coins.

hmm I think charging an additional USD for every Bitcoin transaction on an exchange would be pretty effective way to curtail the wash trading bot farms. That right there would decouple Bitcoin pretty quickly as it would stop wash trading so much.

Also exchanges should literally begin locking accounts for wash trading. Fucking gox accounts regardless of how much BTC they have. If you wash trade your account gets liquidated with no repeal.