/biz/ - Business & Finance

It sucks that there are so many socialists/sjws in crypto these days.

Hopefully most of the whales are fervent Ancaps.

Luckily AnCap is not a normative theory but rather a predictive theory.

It doesn't matter what the SJWs or Core Cucks try to pull in the short term: if you zoom out the the overarching trend will always continue marching toward anarcho-capitalism and the promotion of volontary action, which is always the most effecient path without exception. It is inevitable.

>>8234333
my nigga

>>8234221
>literally

No other economic theory comes remotely close to Anarcho-Capitalism's Austrian Theory in properly identifying the ailments of central banking and properly predicting that the free market will provide the best solution

>>8234221
If your ideology excludes race as a factor (99% of lolbergs and ancaps), then you're not worth talking to.

>>8234385
It is literally privately issued money that governments can't put back in the bottle, ever.

>>8234221

It has no practical application, prone to manipulation by the rich, only benefits a few people. Interesting for an academic discussion but nothing else.

Yup sounds right.

>>8234221
making a living from other's greed and foolishness without adding any value to the world? sounds about right

>>8234333
i hope so

>>8234421
>race as a factor

A factor for what? Low IQ?

>>8234444

Bad goy

>>8234221
25 years ago today, the Cypherpunk's Manifesto was Written.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Indd6I8MU&

A Cypherpunk's Manifesto
by Eric Hughes

Privacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn't want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn't want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world.

If two parties have some sort of dealings, then each has a memory of their interaction. Each party can speak about their own memory of this; how could anyone prevent it? One could pass laws against it, but the freedom of speech, even more than privacy, is fundamental to an open society; we seek not to restrict any speech at all. If many parties speak together in the same forum, each can speak to all the others and aggregate together knowledge about individuals and other parties. The power of electronic communications has enabled such group speech, and it will not go away merely because we might want it to.

Since we desire privacy, we must ensure that each party to a transaction have knowledge only of that which is directly necessary for that transaction. Since any information can be spoken of, we must ensure that we reveal as little as possible. In most cases personal identity is not salient. When I purchase a magazine at a store and hand cash to the clerk, there is no need to know who I am. When I ask my electronic mail provider to send and receive messages, my provider need not know to whom I am speaking or what I am saying or what others are saying to me; my provider only need know how to get the message there and how much I owe them in fees. When my identity is revealed by the underlying mechanism of the transaction, I have no privacy. I cannot here selectively reveal myself; I must always reveal myself.

>>8234444
>value to the world?
What is value to you? Labor? Physical goods only?

>>8234441
Unlike governments, which is OF COURSE aren't "prone to manipulation by the rich and only benefits a few people"

>>8234480
Therefore, privacy in an open society requires anonymous transaction systems. Until now, cash has been the primary such system. An anonymous transaction system is not a secret transaction system. An anonymous system empowers individuals to reveal their identity when desired and only when desired; this is the essence of privacy.

Privacy in an open society also requires cryptography. If I say something, I want it heard only by those for whom I intend it. If the content of my speech is available to the world, I have no privacy. To encrypt is to indicate the desire for privacy, and to encrypt with weak cryptography is to indicate not too much desire for privacy. Furthermore, to reveal one's identity with assurance when the default is anonymity requires the cryptographic signature.

We cannot expect governments, corporations, or other large, faceless organizations to grant us privacy out of their beneficence. It is to their advantage to speak of us, and we should expect that they will speak. To try to prevent their speech is to fight against the realities of information. Information does not just want to be free, it longs to be free. Information expands to fill the available storage space. Information is Rumor's younger, stronger cousin; Information is fleeter of foot, has more eyes, knows more, and understands less than Rumor.

We must defend our own privacy if we expect to have any. We must come together and create systems which allow anonymous transactions to take place. People have been defending their own privacy for centuries with whispers, darkness, envelopes, closed doors, secret handshakes, and couriers. The technologies of the past did not allow for strong privacy, but electronic technologies do.

>>8234421
Get fucked pajeet, our ideology is too advanced for you too comprehend.

>>8234507
We the Cypherpunks are dedicated to building anonymous systems. We are defending our privacy with cryptography, with anonymous mail forwarding systems, with digital signatures, and with electronic money.

Cypherpunks write code. We know that someone has to write software to defend privacy, and since we can't get privacy unless we all do, we're going to write it. We publish our code so that our fellow Cypherpunks may practice and play with it. Our code is free for all to use, worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system can't be shut down.

Cypherpunks deplore regulations on cryptography, for encryption is fundamentally a private act. The act of encryption, in fact, removes information from the public realm. Even laws against cryptography reach only so far as a nation's border and the arm of its violence. Cryptography will ineluctably spread over the whole globe, and with it the anonymous transactions systems that it makes possible.

For privacy to be widespread it must be part of a social contract. People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society. We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals.

The Cypherpunks are actively engaged in making the networks safer for privacy. Let us proceed together apace.

Onward.

Eric Hughes <hughes@soda.berkeley.edu>

9 March 1993

>>8234480
>>8234507
>>8234528

The OG Cypher Punks were all libertarian. The rest of you liberals new fags are simply guests

>>8234485
that without which you cannot live is at the base of the pyramid of value and is only produced by hard labour, followed by things that solve problems or make life easier (usually the work of great minds and engineers), at the top things which are not necessary at all but give the most profit (speculation, interest on money, gold). These (the top ones) are the ones ancaps love the most, since they jew minded. Its no mistake or coincidence most ancaps authors you people love to quote are jews

>>8234495

>government isn’t perfect
>we should get rid of it and let everyone do their own thing or let corporations run the show, whatever

Wtf I love ancap now

>>8234591
forgot to add crypto, useless but profitable endevour

>>8234578
>tfw when obscene profits breed obscene comptition and the heightened demand will bring an external heightened supply and you get undercut so hard that you decide to sell your water to make money and the free market once again met demand perfectly

>>8234578

>>8234441
Your chart shows information about what happens in a world dominated by statism, where governments print money at will to give to their rich buddies in the name of "development and progress". And yet you use it to try to show a flaw in a stateless society in which there would be no central authority to do so. Did your limited brain think it would work?

>>8234623
>trying to frame the debate as a function of susceptibility to manipulation by wealth and the quantity of people which benefit
>not realize governmnents are worse at both
>moving the goal post all fucking way to the way whether or not something is perfect

>>8234656
not if he makes a conglomerate or cartel with other water hoarders and they all agree to keep the price high, each meeting the demands of their respective areas and destroying anyone trying to sell lower by contaminating his water. Who's gonna stop them anyway

>>8234710
Shh, he's retarded. Let him be

>>8234421
Triple-H supremacy

>>8234732
>Who's gonna stop them anyway
Self-interest

>>8234760
Sorry, anon
I feel bad now

Salty commies that mocked bitcoin from 2011-2016 are finally in the space and are pissed about the inequality of crypto.

It's your own damn fault idiots.

>>8234528
Based. Thanks for posting
>>8234221
Like most people, at least outside of /biz/, I bought Bitcoin as a normie, even though it was back in 2014, and held it for years as a normie, still subscribing to the liberal political fantasy that is the Democratic party. Reality shifted with Trump's election, I bought more Bitcoin, and, unbeknownst at the time I made them, my financial decisions set me on a path toward realizing libertarian/ancap ideas in my own political (or really, apolitical) outlook.

>>8234421
Fuck off back to /pol/ you socialist faggot, /biz/ is AnCap zone.

>>8234732
Contaminating water is a violation of NAP

>>8234421
In a stateless society there would be no gibes. The cream always rises to the top, anon.
Look at Serbia in comparison to Germany. No gibs = no migrants, they didn't even need borders.

Also, in a truly free society you could literally have a closed neighbourhood where Tyrone and Jamal can't enter.
Statism is only good if you're on the winning side, and that can't be guaranteed forever. A free society is good for everyone

Ironically crypto kind of killed my faith in non state issued currencies. Don’t get me wrong, I like crypto as a whole and think it’s fine to have competing currencies but let’s be honest here nobody would want to get their wage worked paid in something as volatile as a cryptocurrency.

>>8234904
just get paid in tether LOL

>>8234904
>not realizing where you are on the timeline

>>8234221
BASED

>>8234875
then they dont contaminate it, they buy it all cheap to sell it higher. Conglomerate wins

>>8234727

>ancap is an impractical, flawed ideology
>B-BUT G-GOVERNMENT

>>8234623
The point is not that the system is imperfect, but that it is involuntary/coercive.

>>8235132

>Mommy won’t let me stay up and eat 10 cookies: The ideology

>>8234623
Look up what the definition of a corporation is before criticizing anarcho-capitalists.

Corporations can only exist within a state. There is no limited liability in AnCap utopia.

If your business poisons a bunch of people you will personally go bankrupt.

>>8235292

Name a successful ancap society

>>8234221

>>8235314
/biz/

>>8235331

>meme answer

>>8235375
meme answer for a meme question

If you don't realize that bitcoin and crypto is building an ancap society from under the noses of the current system you must be blind.

>>8234245
It doesn't suck, they're useful idiots, just need to understand that the real interest for the ultimate function of cryptos is more limited than the price says it is.

>>8235314
they don't exist. switzerland comes close though, and it's known almost universally to be the best country in the world in general

what would the ultimate nanny state crypto be? I want to make one.

>centralized
>allows chargebacks somehow
>inflation
>faucet distribution

>>8235404

It’s not a “meme question” lmao. There is no ancap society because it’s impractical and stupid. If it’s so great someone would have tried it by now. There isnt even an ancap society let alone a successful one. You retards have no single example. The burden of proof is on corporate tools like you. I hope your local PMC CEO personally executes you after invading your land.

>>8235422

>socialized healthcare
>gun control
>meme referendums like banning minarets
>small, relatively homogenous white society

>>8235433
Stellar

>>8235292
here's a good example of someone who didnt larp the ancap meme but lived by it, even if unknowingly. Down to waging war against the state.
This is the archetype of the ancap hero, criminals, bandits and outlaws. His business poisoned people, destroyed families and left blood everywhere it moved including your country. Yet it was extremely succesful and still is. Bankrupt, lol.
In ancap society nobody would sacrifice himself for greater things, there are no heroes, no defenders of truth. Its all about what the market dictates and profit, whether its right or wrong, doesnt matter.

>>8235404

Also governments are actively regulating crypto now, good luck with that.

>>8235462
"socialized healthcare"
>outweighed by literally being the most capitalist country in the world. this is precisely the reason why I said it came close
"gun control"
>almost everyone has a gun and crime rates are at an all time low
"meme referendums"
>literally every country has banned at least one thing for little to no reason
"white society"
>what the fuck does this have to do with anything

>>8235563

>what does having a homogenous society have to do With stability and prosperity

Top kek have fun with your diversity

>>8235621
nice job ignoring all my other points

>>8235314
Liechtenstein.

The prince is a Hans Herman Hoppe friend and listens to him, he even wanted to allow absolute free association within his country, which is pretty much the main requisite for anarcho capitalism.

>>8235486
His empire was so large and profitable because other countries (mainly the USA) waged war on any of his competitors, though. Local competitors could undercut his prices since there would be lower transportation costs. Also, the price of anything skyrockets if you ban it.

Besides that, who are you to tell people not to snort cocaine? If they're dumb enough to do it, let them. Without the high prices they could do it and still function without selling everything and having to rob people.

>>8235667
anarchists have always been commies allies, this helicopter ride thing make me laugh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_association_(Marxism_and_anarchism)

>>8235323
>implying corporations can trample your rights by use of force without the help of government

>>8235621
See
>>8234897

>>8235314
The spontaneous order is everywhere that centralized hierarchical control is not.

http://oll.libertyfund.org/groups/104

>>8235740
>local competitors
dude he murdered every single competitor and thats what would happen in ancap, and no NAP bullshit is gonna stop it. You will never stop violence.
>still function
is that the type of society you want?

>>8235777
That article is full of contradictions, expected, since it's Marxism it's talking about, you cannot have free association while advocating for revolution of the proletariat, which is pretty much forcing people to associate.

Government turns off/nationalizes the internet

Your move.

>>8235863
you cannot have that freedom without your ancap revolution first. You cannot have revolution without violence. How are you gonna talk about non aggression pacts after a bloodshed. You will never convince people to voluntary and peacefully agree to your model. Same with Marxism

>>8235820
I mean US competitors. Escobar's coke was mostly sold in the US.
Also, if you make a business illegal the only businessmen in this field will be the common sociopath who would kill to make more money. Weed dealers used to do this too, but now they have hipster shops in Colorado and sell weed stocks on NASDAQ. Sounds like exactly what I'm saying.

>is that the type of society you want?
It doesn't matter what I want, why would my opinion matter on a random person's life? People will do coke anyway, at least this way they can do it legally with a quality product and low prices (instead of using crack mixed with all kinds of stuff, bought with robbed money because it's too expensive and too addictive).

>>8234221
Dumb it down pls

Here's the thing about lolbertarianism: it's retarded

>>8235999
Why

>>8235962
>you cannot have that freedom without your ancap revolution first. You cannot have revolution without violence.

All you require is a country allowing areas to secede, this leads to anarcho capitalism. Plus economic revolution, such as crypto, is called agorism and works in favor of anarcho capitalism.

>You will never convince people to voluntary and peacefully agree to your model.

Current institutions are a ticking bomb and if you're in /biz you should know it, debt is going to tear them apart and their ability to collect taxes is going to do nothing but collapse.

Some countries are already experimenting with private cities (India, honduras) special economic cities (China), private cities are the future.

>>8235966
Just adding a point: you're probably a burgerclap. Remember what happened when you guys outlawed liquor? That's right, the only businessmen were sociopaths who killed competitors. Just like Pablo Escobar.
Look at what they've become after it became legal again. No one gets murdered because of your Budweiser. Alcohol can be pretty harmful and addictive, but instead of harmful moonshine you have soft stuff like beer and most people don't overindulge.

>>8235966
>people will do coke anyway
see this is the problem with you people. You accept degeneracy as inevitable, cause 'muh freedom' and 'who am i to tell others what to do, thats authoritarian!'.
Before the mass influx of drug into the U.S almost nobody did coke or any drug, and anyone who did was frowned upon. Thats what happens when you live in a moral society. It is not accepted as normal or inevitable. Those who do it feel bad about it, as they should.
If you return to this kind of thinking, then no, people wont do coke anyway, since it is expected of them to be clear minded, productive individuals. The kind of people that lifts your country. Legal, illegal, doesnt matter if it is considered shit and nobody does it.

>>8235962
Or just stop paying taxes collectively and stop using any currency that the state can print at will. That's enough to kill central governments.

>>8236045
because feelings

>>8236055
>collapse of current institutions and economies
great, thats an opportunity to try better systems than this ancap bs, which doesnt solve any problem at all but in fact appeals to the more primitive and selfish side of humans

>>8234441

In a truly free society after the 2008 crash all banks and overleveraged corporations would have gone out of business and allowed for new more efficient ones to take over. The one keeping the powerful in power is the government not the free market.

>>8235486

Who the fuck are you to tell others what shoud they do with their money? Alcohol, tobacco, fast food, all poison people and no one bats an eye, if the government outlawed those there would be cartels providing them too, with the same level of violence. Get your fake morals out of here fag.

>>8236141
>see this is the problem with you people. You accept degeneracy as inevitable, cause 'muh freedom' and 'who am i to tell others what to do, thats authoritarian!'.

Do you advocate for going to war with pretty much the entire world? There's degeneracy everywhere and there's little you can do unless you want to conquer the world.

Thus why ancaps settle with at least being able to control who you associate with.

>>8234421
Ancap doesn't need to cover race at the macro level because it pushes it to the business owner. Without government interference, such as the Civil Rights act of 1964, most niggers would starve in USA. Additionally, if schools were private, there's no free babysitting, which makes single motherhood a liability, which makes black men taboo and unattractive. Get rekt

>>8236208
>this other stuff is harmful too, so more harmful shit should be readily available cause im a degenerate
and this is why the west is decaying. Harmful shit should be avoided. Yes you can buy it and harm yourself but you will be considered a degenerate, same as heroin addicts are

Crypto is actually neo-reactionary.

>>8236211
>little you can do
as an individual yes. As a collective, anything is possible but authoritarianism is required

>>8236298
kys commie

>>8236283
not even a little bit

crypto is the end to your way of life

>>8236298
Decentralized authoritarianism (contracts) is what Ancap is all about.

Say you were given the chance to experiment an ancap society, you would have thousands of private cities to choose from, some of them would be degenerate allowing, others wouldn't.

All of the sudden degenerate cities get people tired because they're not as degenerate as others, and thus they're assuming their costs, which forces them to move to a less degenerate place. Eventually the degenerates run out of people to indulge their lifestyle, forcing them to change or die.

Understanding markets we can easily understand that society tends to optimization of costs when allowed, and degeneracy is costly.

>>8236274

Why don't you move to saudi arabia idiot so you don't have to live with degenerates that eat pork...

>>8236141
That's cute. What will you do when this "collective" you put your faith into decides that something YOU do is degenerate? Such as owning a firearm?
Politics just leads to pointless infighting and in a collectivist society you'd better hope the government is on the same side as you, because your life would be pretty shitty otherwise. Democracy was a mistake.
If you don't like people who do drugs, don't associate yourself with them. It's as simple as that.

>>8236274
Who decides what is harmful, though? You?
I've met plenty of smokers and beer drinkers who think like you do.

Using any drug is a victimless crime and the only reason why cigarettes aren't illegal is because they make the state money

>>8236455
and saves them money, by dying so early they don't have to pay medicare and social security.

>>8236406
Pretty much, the results of National socialism is rapefugees invasion.

Allowing an entity to dictate rules of conduct according to majority's will (or strength) might lead to what you want, or the total opposite of what you want, like in today's society.

Private property and contracts, however, lead to perpetuity of values and market forces deciding moral optimals.

>>8236141
If you don't like coke, don't do it.
What makes you think you should control what others use or don't use?

>>8236325
>anyone i disagree with is a commie
>>8236344
thats a strange way to organize humans
>>8236357
pork is not degenerate, faggot
>>8236406
this is a philosophical matter. What is considered harmful in the long run, using logic and proof, scientific if necessary, not only to yourself but your countrymen, is what is degenerate. If you are harming yourself and you are part of society, you are harming society since it now consists of a less optimal member. The 'collective' is a sum of individuals. The collective sucks if the individuals are not their best. Guns are not degenerate. Democracy on a large scale was a mistake.
>dont associate with them
they still form part of the collective and they are making it worse. You want your nation to aspire to greatness, and the nation consists of individuals which must share a common purpose or you're going nowhere

>>8236455
Exactly. Checked your dubs while looking at the supplies I'll use to grow my first batch of shrooms at home this weekend (legal here). They cured me of depression, but your government would rather see people using some SSRI that causes addiction and kills your will to live.

>>8236553
>pork is not degenerate, faggot
But Ahmed says it is. Why should I trust you over Ahmed?

>>8236533
see >>8236553
>>8236434
im a smoker myself and i know it is harming me, even if doctos came saying it is harmless i know it fucks you up. The consumer knows if he's harming himself, your body knows

>>8236553
no a filthy commie saying what im allowed to do and what im not allowed to do is a commie

>>8234422

Agorism > Anarcho capitalism.

Samuel Konkin > Murray Rothbard

>>8236553
Again: if the collective decides on something you don't agree with, will you follow their rule? There are many schools of thought and they all disagree on important points. Some people (retards, I know) think firearms are degenerate.

>>8236590
Exactly. I'm a smoker too, btw, and I'm pretty aware that it's degenerate. Would I stop if it becomes outlawed? Fuck no.

>>8236553

We are in a free market board, get your commie nationalist shit back to /pol/ mouthbreather

>>8236455
the state could be raking in the profits with legal drugs, why arent they doing so? oh wait we are headed that way

>>8236633
Can't take the heat?

>>8236596
do as you please brainlet. You are considered a degenerate anyway. Same as you consider homosexuals degenerate for doing as they please

>>8236498
Extending on the moral optimals concept. I developed the idea multiple times in /lrg posts in pol.

The idea is that migration flow leads people towards moral and productive areas while abandoning immoral areas as soon as they're allowed to do it.

The issue is that through democracy and lack of contractual obligations, those productive and moral areas quickly degenerate, because the newcomers bring their defects with them and the values of foundation were not protected enough.

If people had to sign a contract before moving to a new country claiming they'd adhere to the principles of the founding fathers, the choice of immigration would have to be way more conscious than just "i go there because there's jobs", values would be kept, as the proprietor of the private city would be allowed to kick you out under breach of contract.

Anarcho Capitalism leads to more moral societies, through contracts and private property.

>>8236665
back to pol

>>8236665
I consider you a degenerate, yet I don't actively seek to end your existence.

>>8236665

Statists are the most degenate filth

>>8236656

I can go on all you want, why would I run from commies?

>>8236622
well the collective should agree on a common set of values if any kind of society is to be established. What is considered degenerate would be debated pretty early on, its not like there would be a mass hunt of degenerates after taking power. Those who dont consider their behaviour degenerate, and are in a minority are free to live elsewhere.
>would i stop if outlawed? probably not
its not a matter of outright outlawing shit, but making people see and understand why such behaviour is not acceptable. Deep inside most people know they shouldnt be doing it anyway

>>8236673
Nice desu. This is why I defend private communities with their own standards on what kind of people they let in. No infighting = more productivity and happiness.

What you propose is the same thing, but on a much larger scale which I think would be hard to manage if people can't agree on everything. But if it's just a simple set of rules based on the general culture and not hot-button issues it might work pretty well

>>8236686
who said anything about ending existence? i said frowned upon, or bullied. Same as you bully fat people, you let them know they are suboptimal so they do something about it

>>8236705
Nevermind, this guy is against coke and degeneracy. He's not my kind of guy.

>>8236705
go live in the woods far away from le evil statists
>>8236677
you've been there plenty, you dont fool anyone

>>8236633
Thread about politics. Talk about politics. Freedom to post whatever i want, deal with it, freedom lover

>>8236760
Unless you're implying that we should outlaw whatever activities you consider degenerate, I don't understand what point you're making here. What society considers degenerate has little to do with political system or ideology. It's completely off topic itt.

>>8236836
Also for the pic related, meant to type on a side note..

If Varg wasn't such a brainlet, he'd realise that his best chance of making his anprim wet dream come true is in ancap society. He'd be free to create his degenerate-free society, provided he has resources to do that.
>but muh evil capitalism
>muh exploitation

i don't care i just want to get rich

>>8236855
Exactly, anarcho capitalism is a white canvas, only ruled by what people vote with their feet.

>>8236726
>Those who dont consider their behaviour degenerate, and are in a minority are free to live elsewhere.
Yeah, but how large is this collective? My post above >>8236758 would be a good way to tacke this issue. Anarcho-capitalism lets you have the kind of collective you want, even a small white ethnostate if you want to.
You can't do it on a national level because even if you disagree with the collective you have an incentive to stay on your homeland (and not everyone can emmigrate elsewhere).

>its not a matter of outright outlawing shit
Not trying to be cheeky, but you were pretty much defending the war on drugs, and this is based on outlawing stuff. If you want them to be legal (no regulations, just "not illegal) while having harm reduction campaigns then great. Churches do an excellent job recovering addicts and exposing degeneracy (much better than the government's work).

>>8236836
people naturally understand what is degenerate or inferior traits. Thats why they worship good physique and obese people are frowned upon

Going out for a smoke. Keep going, this debate started with shitty banter and now I'm getting all polite and stuff

>>8236141
>muh objective morals

>there are more of us here than in pol nowadays

The future is ours, we're making magic internet money instead of wasting our time debating commies all day

>>8236882
>white canvas
Beautifully explained in two words. It astounds me that people are too brainlet to realize this, when in fact everyone who is not a welfare parasite should consider ancaps their best allies to achieve whatever retarded idealistic goals they have. Wanna reenact a third reich? Feel free to do so. On your own property.

>>8236887
>you cant do it on a national level
and thats why its a system doomed to failure. You have all these little communities with different values competing for territory and resources, there is bound to be war amongst these people. Not to mention how vulnerable you are to outside invasion from other strong centralized nations & militaries.
>this is based on outlawing stuff
when you have an educated and healthy population, there is no need to force shit, no need to outlaw. They know whats wrong. You could make it legal, people still wouldnt do it.
It is illegal today cause its more profitable for many this way, not to protect citizens. They'll do it, legal or not, cause people are fucked up nowadays

>>8236932
>>relative morals: i say raping babies is ok, who are you to tell me otherwise
you in a nutshell

>babby's first debate outside his shitstained echo chamber.

>>8234221
I'm guessing you're not aware of late stage capitalism. As automation and AI replace nearly all jobs, the voters will demand a shift toward socialism.

>>8237076
Yes. The question is do we get it, or do we get hellworld where we all serfs groveling to a very limited number of people in control of everything.

Knowing our stupid world, I'd bet on the latter.

Ancaps don’t exist, they are just regular old capitalists. it’s a state, there is no anarchy they just use that word to sound edgy

>>8237076
I have a very different view of the future.

What will happen is that resource allocation will still be leaded by people, as no AI can ever replace a market of billions of people, it will never outperform the resource allocation of people who are guided by trends etc. Thus why stock ownership will be the main income of 50% of the population, while the remaining 50% will be operating the machines/fixing them/creating them/assuming capital costs.

That and a return to artisanry, people will value artisan made products above mass-produced shit, people will want "the experience".

And entertainment, tons of entertainment of all kinds.

>>8237076
>by democracy enabled oppressive majority demands xyz, forcefully imposing their will on minority
Hmmm

>>8237076
crypto makes democracy obsolete.

>>8234333
This. This is exactly why I am so optimistic about the future. Too young to explore the world, too old to explore space, but just in time to witness the accelerating disruption of all centralised power. Internet was just the beginning. Shit, I have an erection now.

>>8236991
>and thats why its a system doomed to failure
These little communities could compete economically and that's perfectly fine because no one is obligated to sell their property. If they start getting uppity and try to take things by force every other neighbouring community would have an incentive to gang up on them (just like it happens among countries nowadays).
External forces would definitely be a problem, but with more decentralization, it gets harder to attack a "national" territory. No one wants to fight against a guerilla militia on their turf, much less one that has access to PMCs hired by multiple communities.
This is all speculative, but it's not so different from the system we have now, there's just less infighting because the only thing these communities have to agree on is "I'd pay to defend my way of life". As it stands right now people can't even agree on that in many places.

>when you have an educated and healthy population, there is no need to force shit, no need to outlaw
Well, now you're just arguing for the same thing I want. If meth heads want their own society, let them be. Everyone would see what a shitfest it becomes and people would wise up to it.

>>8237010

>not understanding the difference between actions that impact others and actions that only impact yourself

>>8237076

And then ones generating the wealth will just go away and let the idiots redistribute their poverty..

>>8234333
yup. the second borders are dissolved, ancap paradise is here. there's zero chance they'll have a police force to watch over every inch of the earth and private guards will become a thing.

>>8237243
You really think so in the face of growing wealth consolidation all over the world? You'll just see new forms of centralized power.

>>8237201

It's the first time I read someone exactly on the same page as me. I've trying to express these ideas for a while but was never able to put them as clearly as you did.

All automation means is that we'll have to be stockholders on those automatized business, the problem I see is that people don't like risks, they want to do their job and have their check at the end of the month, they don't care about the possibility of getting bigger rewards, they just want their paychecks and benefits.

Obviously this mentality will have to change or they'll just starve because jobs as we know them are going away for good.

>>8237367
I'll take 1000's monarchies over the current situation

>>8236673
>tfw private cities implemented via private facing smart contracts

>>8237482
And people breaking the smart contract get forked, noice

>>8237289
newsflash, what impacts you impacts others, since you live with others. Unless you go full hermit. Are you a hermit?
Besides, i never said anyone would prohibit you from doing harm to yourself. Only that you would be considered inferior, just like obese people are

>a currency governed by consensus protocols is an affirmation of a political ideology based on individualism
and ancaps wonder why everyone thinks they're retarded

>>8237711
When are libertarians the oppressors lol? They're the antithesis of opressors

>>8237076
>everything will be free so money should be free too
fuck, is everyone literally retarded?

>>8234333
wrong, ancap is actually the starting point and geolibertarianism is the end point

>>8237611

So if I smoke a joint in my place I'm impacting others? That's some slippery slope bullshit, if you do something stupid while being high it's your fault not the joint fault..

No one is considered anything, different people consider things different. You would be considered inferior by muslims for eating a hot dog, that doesn't mean you're inferior or superior to anyone.

>>8237738
people only subscribe to libertarian philosophy when their group is oppressed
when their group becomes the oppressor you see a quick change in ideology from them
one example is feminists before suffrage, they were huge libertarians but quickly dropped it after they gained power.

>>8236141
>Before the mass influx of drug into the U.S almost nobody did coke or any drug, and anyone who did was frowned upon.
You're one of those retards that blames the cartels for drug problems when this country has a history of abusing substances. We released heroin to the market as cough syrup. Cannabis tinctures were everywhere. We prescribed opium. The entire world was addicted to opiates in 1800s.

i dont rally give a fuck as long as we clamp down on mudslimes and shitskins trying to seep into white countries

>>8235314
the earth
each country is sovereign and owned by its self
a country has treaties to help defend borders
countries get final say in how their internally run

>>8237815
Feminists got infiltrated by Marxists because they were not libertarian. A libertarian doesn't focus just in one aspect of freedom.

Any representative example of these feminists being libertarians outside of the scope of their own issue?

>>8234732
You’re just back to square one of what he >>8234656 said. The worst type of resource management always happen under a state enforced monopoly. For an example with water, see Cape Town...

>>8235252
Exactly, thanks for proving our point. We are responsible adults. We don’t want mommy gubment to tell us what we can and cannot do. If you have such a strong submissive mentality, you can still choose your private mummy in an an ancap society.

>>8234221
bump

>>8234703
LMAO

>>8234221
Socialists adn sws who invest in crypto are walking contradictions
>It sucks
not really, they're further proving our point while destroying their own cause in the process

>>8234421
A truly ancap society is very close to social Darwinism. Lesser races would either have gone extinct a long time ago or would be more developed than they are today

>>8235323
Monopolies would be an Utopia without government interventionism. Nice try though

>>8237076
I assume you are not a crypto investor, otherwise you're betting more on an Ancap world rather than a socialist one

>>8234703
This is so fucking preachy.

>>8234703
There would be no police department in an ancap society, only private police, and if an employee was caught using drugs, they would be fired.

>>8234904
We're at literally 0.1% of worldwide adoption m8

The problem with libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism is that it CAN NOT exist outside an ethnostate. At it's origin, the US started out as exactly that, the only problem is that JEWS and other cooperative groups will band together and climb their way to the top through nepotism. These groups do not have the same values as the individualist whites, and will subvert the state to fit their agenda. This is what's currently happening all over the west, and why white gentiles everywhere are beginning to emphasize the role that race plays in out politics. Libertarian is teenaged idealism, it has no basis in the violent tribalistic way of nature

>>8234221
good

>>8240443
> At it's origin, the US started out as exactly that
Not really, it was Minarchism/Classical Liberal at best, no fully Ancap

>>8240564
Still, there's no safeguard against the same thing happening in a full ancap scenario

>>8240443

>there are people that unironically think like this

It's pointless to argue with someone as brainwashed as yourself but I'll just respond to the most blatant stupidity.

Whites became spoiled because they could do very low skill jobs and get high salaries because socialist politicians forced the businesses. With globalization and improved communications businesses realized that they could hire people in poor countries to do those jobs for a fraction of what spoiled americans would do it. Instead learning better skills white workers started to blame foreigners for their lack of jobs, because how do they dare to do the same job for a fraction of the money!

>>8240797
Do you not see an issue in pouring the wealth we've created for ourselves across the immeasurable masses around the globe? Does that seem sustainable to you?

>>8240797
Do you think that because some poor Chinese farmer works his fingers to the bone for 25¢ a day, that makes 2¢ an hour the market price for his labor? How stupid could you be? Its not "socialist" to keep a nations wealth among that nation and its people. Anything else is suicide. Its called generating abundance and a good quality of life, something ancap autists have little regard for

>>8241218

>it's not socialist to force me to invest in a low rentability business in america while I could invest in a higher rentability business overseas

Kys commie

>>8241278
Kys traitor. No honor or morality in ancap, that's all it comes down to

>>8241324

I hope you're not investing in crypto hypocritical retard

>>8234221
Friendly reminder that ancap is a jewish ideology. Its the jewed version of libertarian nationalism.

>>8241426

>libertarian nationalism

Where do these idiots come from?

>>8241426
>libertarian nationalism
Ur time is up cunt BTFO from this discussion.

>>8234333
Ahahhhaha AHAHhahahahHHAHAHAHAHAH

>>8234421
Ancap - you can be as racist as you like just don’t expect anyone to pay you for it

>>8241479
Corrupting a reasonable ideology like libertarianism into an open borders jewish utopia of degeneracy and immorality is such a sneaky tactic I almost want to applaud you. But you're either a kike or a useful idiot so just shut the fuck up and move to Africa where you can see how this shit plays out irl

>>8241479
>>8241507
>not knowing that the USA was founding as libertarian nationalist republic.
Spotted the juden.

>tfw no ancap bf

>>8241581
>>8241578

Libertarian nationalist

What is it with retards and empty labels?

everything is ancap when you zoom out. communistic uprisings are microcosmic oscillations into inefficiency that are necessary for the self-sustaining meta-system of civilation to make the necessary adjustments to improve efficiency and freedom and align more harmoniously with thermodynamic perfection. if you still don't understand this in current year, then you are doomed to be a tranny, I'm sorry.

>>8241710
Kill yourself jewboy. Nobody is convinced that our founding fathers supported accepting millions of savage immigrants and outsourcing American work for an easy buck

>>8234904
Maximum cuck

>>8241766

Back to /pol/ commie let the grown men discuss business

>>8241578
> Not realizing that pure libertarianism is very similar to social Darwinism, meaning that lesser races would not survive or at least only the best of them would be able to compete while respecting the NAP

>>8234422
>just let me form a monopoly, it's for the best, goy

>>8241710
>>8241807
Go away jew.

Can we get rid of this autistic /pol/ shit please
sage

>>8241854
Monopolies can't exist in a fully capitalist stateless society. They only exist do to government interference and political interests

>>8236208
>there would be a corn-syrup soda pop cartel. people would be willing to go to jail for their 12 spoonfuls of sugar in each sodie pop

I don't support the banking system. That's why I support crypto.
The banking system is full of corrupt 1%ers who need to be put in line. People of Wall Street need to be disciplined!

>>8234710
in anarcho-capitalism like you propose the corporations would hire people from the second and third world exclusively. Americans wouldn't have a fucking chance in their own company. and then no one would be there to break up their monopolies because you have no government... to govern them.

>>8238243
stupid people like you need a daddy to tell you what you can and can't do. otherwise, you'll do it to yourself by default. you don't want a daddy government, you need a daddy government. now go gobble down another 2 liter and die of obesity.

>>8239774
>companies that exclusively hire third worlders at or expense is a good thing.

>>8241905
>in anarcho-capitalism like you propose the corporations would hire people from the second and third world exclusively
Capitalists strive to hire only the best of the best, otherwise the competition would fuck them up, so not all the workers would be from 3rd world countries
> Muh low salaries
You are aware that people are willing to pay for quality products, not just cheap af products made by child labor in a third world country, right?
>Americans wouldn't have a fucking chance in their own company
He's the owner. The only thing he needs to be uneasy about is competition from someone who is smarter than him. You only fail if consumers (all of us) think you are not competent enough
>and then no one would be there to break up their monopolies because you have no government... to govern them
and then no one would be there to break up their monopolies because you have no government... to govern them
Monopolies only exist when regulations exist. The very nature of capitalism makes a monopoly impossible to even exist
https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly-0

>>8242019
None of that shit matters when your culture and nation die out.

>>8237782
What the fuck is this image saying. You're giving a bit of apple and oranges to society under capitalism more so under socialism and are only giving oranges under geo libertarianism but keeping apples? Do you not want oranges in this analogy? Does society want oranges? Why are you harvesting oranges if you don't want them?

>>8240797
yeh heh heh it's not like European ethnic groups invented the aeroplane, the computer, the internet, the combustion engine, the lightbulb, everything up to and including the telephone, vaccines, modern medicine, the television, iron bridges, interstate highways, steam power, the assembly line, the harnessing of electricity, the Enlightenment and all that.
it was just handed to them as a privilege out of the dirt in Africa! only bigots don't know this.

I'm awaiting your sub 87 IQ response.

>>8234421
Why do you want state imposed racism, like Jim Crowe?
If businesses want to be integrated they can be, they're not forced to be racially segregated like under Jim Crowe. If they want to be segregated go ahead.

>>8234221
/g here
Crypto is literally the only way that we managed to fight back and that hasn't been completely subverted yet

>>8234471
Why doesn't that guy on the left just start his own company?

>>8242066
*don't forget concrete

>>8241807
>B-back to /pol/ c-commie
The ancaps understanding of why communism is bad is so infantile I don't even know where to start. Believe it or not, communism is evil on a level deeper than "muh statism!!1"

>>8235252
Why do leftists always act like people are just children? Stop looking down in adults who have their own agency

Libertarianism is political autism. Individualism assumes that people are an island, and completely independent. It ignores society entirely, and thus belongs away from it.

There has never been a functional libertarian society. Inb4 "early America", which was a white nationalist state. Also inb4 Midieval Iceland, which was a particular type of feudalism.

Ancap capitalism is a different side of the same coin as Marxism. Both assume a post-political Utopia where everyone is equal. Ancap equality is just phrased in the form of the "non-aggresion principle". When Islamic horses are invading your society, it's perfectly okay as long as it's on someone else's property, right?

>>8242171
>It ignores society entirely
What are voluntary associations?

>>8242302
Society doesn't "voluntarily associate" at all levels. This is a delusional fantasy. The very property rights which you see as sacred are not voluntary moral obligations on others. Which is why you need a powerful social hierarchy to maintain righteousness and not mob """justice""".

>>8242368
what makes you think that the government would be a more efficient enforcement mechanism compared to a private enforcement agency which is respected and trusted by society in general?