/biz/ - Business & Finance

You're all being taken for a ride. The longer you stay in this market, the greater the tendency towards going negative on your initial investment unless and only unless you got in below $1000 BTC and do not actively trade. Almost everyone here who is positive over their initial will become negative over the next year or possibly two if they aren't expert traders. Buy and hold is not an option in this market becuase what the market movers are setting up is a system wherein there is no "reserve" crypto like BTC that can be "relied upon" to act as an index of the market. Meaning, whatever you think you can buy and hold long term will only lead you to holding bags that will never increase in value over your buy in, unless you got in exceptionally low. Then they rise and repeat. This will be the new paradigm that they're working towards implementing right now. It's only when this scheme is fully in place that institutionals will come in, as they can siphon money away turn after turn from consumers trying to make money from "constantly appreciating assets" like alt-coins in a bull market.

Caveat emptor. You are all the greater fools, I assure you.

>>8000023
HAHAHAHAHAH

>>8000139

Hopefully you're laughing because you were smart enough not to buy into crypto.

>>8000023
Fuck you. I own a fortune 500 company and am personally worth over 5 billion. I've forgotten more financial knowledge than you'll ever acquire in your shit life. Your fucking shit "powerful cluster of shit neural network algos" and high school level bayesian models can suck my network of custom hidden markov model clusters' dick, you fucking fakefag. You have a vested interest in keeping money in traditional investments.

>>8000023
2/10, made me reply
If you want to know what actual quants thought about crypto, go through Nuclear Phynance forums, 2012 to present. About half were for, half against. I couldnt read more than three sentences of OPs gibberish.

>>8000023

I am in this market because of how little money is actually in it you shitter

People like you who have no idea about the tech are going to be fucking sobbing in a few years

>>8000023
>I'm an independent financial analyst
Stopped reading here. kys idiot LARPer

>>8000453

>You have a vested interest in keeping money in traditional investments.

Cryptocurrencies are not an investment instrument, you just think they are because you don't actually realize what you've bought into, because you're just a mindless consumer.

>>8000496
>>8000510

It's your money to lose. I don't really care.

>>8000023
Okay so I already cashed out 4x my investment, what happens next?

literally everybody knows its a scam
blogpost: unread

>>8000577

Be thankful and place your money somewhere smart.

>>8000023
>insti
no institutional investors? then explain the Goldman Sachs acquisition of Poloniex announced yesterday you dumbass

>>8000672

Well, retard, Goldman Sachs acquired a company with a balance sheet. They didn't buy your gambling chips, they bought the casino you play at, you fucking retard.

>>8000023
you're a faggot larper. goldman sachs, futures, insitutional investors buying millions in bitcoin. Pic related. Buckle up /biz crypto rising is going to be one of the most intense events of the century similar to the booming 20's. However be smart and secure your gains

>>8000705
>>8000615
>>8000567
>>8000412
>>8000046
>>8000023

>>8000567
YOUR customers are mindless consumers. Don't even try to tell me otherwise.

>I don't really care.
Posts a long ass diatribe of techno shit he thinks is impressive, because he doesn't care. Fuck you. Let me tell you something. Your sad 1-man financial business is going to go negative over the next year or two because you're fighting against the wave, as I expect traditionalfags to do when faced with a new paradigm. It's ok, the old ways have always bitterly fought against the new ways, so you're nothing if but acting normally.

>>8000023

>>8000615
He would be happy to advise you where, for a small fee

>>8000023
Lol you're a fucking retard. Way too much effort into this shitty FUD. Your troll failed the moment you said there is no big or institutional money it BTC. 250+ hedge funds disagree.

>>8000729

> goldman sachs, futures, insitutional investors buying millions in bitcoin.

Nothing you just said makes any actual sense. Futures don't touch the underlying asset, dipshit.

>>8000747

>YOUR customers are mindless consumers.

My clientele have an average net worth in the mid 8 figures, child.

>>8000023
So if bitcoin ever hits $50k, I think you and all your analysts should quit your jobs because you clearly suck at what you do.

>>8000810

>250+ hedge funds disagree.

AHAHA, oh yeah? Which ones?

>>8000023
We know this. The coins are worthless in and of themselves and convey no ownership, we're just trying to make money off the speculation

>>8000023
>>8000046

I literally know you're wrong for an absolute certainty.

>>8000705
Why the fuck would they buy a casino that's going out of business in the next year, you fucking retard? (if crypto will shit the bed in 1 year as you claim, then so will the fucking exchanges) Is that how you advise your customers? Buy shit that will go belly up in 1 year? I surely hope you're larping, because if not, you're the worst financial adviser I've heard, and that's saying something considering the fucking brainlets here at biz

>>8000873

>crypto will shit the bed in 1 year as you claim

I never claimed that, you're just too stupid to understand what I actually wrote. Try again.

>>8000836
Here's a few of the big ones:
Bill Ackman's: Pershing Square Capital Management
Louis Bacon's: Moore Capital Management
Bruce Berkowitz's: Fairholme Capital Management
Warren Buffett's: Berkshire Hathaway
Steven Cohen's: Point72 Asset Management
Chase Coleman's: Tiger Global Management
Ray Dalio's: Bridgewater Associates
David Einhorn's: Greenlight Capital
Jeremy Grantham's: Grantham Mayo Van Otterloo
Joel Greenblatt's: Gotham Asset Management
Ken Griffin's: Citadel Advisors
Andreas Halvorsen's: Viking Global Investors
Carl Icahn: Icahn Carl C
Seth Klarman's: Baupost Group
Daniel Loeb's: Third Point
Howard Marks's: Oaktree Capital Management
Victor Mashaal's: Senvest Management
John Paulson's: Paulson & CO.
Nelson Peltz's: Trian Fund Management
Larry Robbins's: Glenview Capital Management
Wilbur Ross's: Invesco Private Capital
Barry Rosenstein's: Jana Partners
Jim Simons's: Renaissance Technologies
Paul Singer's: Elliott Management Corp
George Soros's: Soros Fund Management
Brian Taylor's: Pine River Capital Management
Prem Watsa's: Fairfax Financial Holdings
Warren Buffett Dividend Stock Portfolio

Stay poor you fucking retarded pleb.

OP is a Pajeet: OP = p
this is LARP: post = l


We know that here are about 50% Pajeets, i.e.,
P(OP = p) = 0.5.

We further know that there is about 80% LARP here, i.e.,
P(post = l) = 0.8.

And if OP is a pajeet, then he will most likely post LARP, i.e.,
P(post = l | OP = p) = 0.99.

Now as this post is most definitely LARP, we have
P(OP = p | post = l) = P(post = l | OP = p)P(OP = p)/P(post = l) = 0.62.

Therefore the conclusion of my extensive Bayesian inference is that OP is a Pajeet.

>>8000812
>My clientele have an average net worth of $100.
It's ok, we all come here claiming to be something we're not. I've cashed out 10M in crypto. Can I be your customer?

>>8000926

Find me a single shred of evidence any one of these firms holds cryptocurrencies.

>>8000023
Hi OP, what you say makes sense. I noticed the market makers move in cycles in order to hype up the price and lure in more normies than dump during euphoria. Do you think it is still profitable for amateur traders to earn profits? because I think this carrousel will be going on for at least a couple more cycles till (fake) 5 trillion market cap

>Behavioral analysis engine we wrote running on a powerful cluster of neural network learning algos, operating within a proprietary game-theoretic model of Bayesian probability

You were doing so well but you overplayed it here

Well kekked tho

>>8000023

>>8001017: Could you message me on telegram? @tonybtc2

>>8001014
How many times will you move goal posts in a pathetic attempt to hold your position of ignorance? Do a few searches you fucking dipshit. You're not worth my time.

>>8001017

>Do you think it is still profitable for amateur traders to earn profits?

Yes, but it's an exceptionally dangerous game that you're very liable to lose. To see even 10% sustained portfolio growth over the next 3 quarters you're going to have to trade very aggressively and never get caught out in a dump. If you trade margin, you are almost absolutely guaranteed to lose money.

>>8001064

Why, because you have no idea what any of those words mean, lol?

>>8000895
you still haven't answered his questions though

>>8000023
>I'm an independent financial analyst
stopped reading. sage.

>>8001123

>You're not worth my time.

Keep lying to yourself, greater fool. None of those firms hold cryptos. None of them.

>>8001148

That's because all his questions are built upon a total misunderstanding, dumbass. There's no answer that I can provide because he's so stupid he didn't even understand what I said to begin with. Like yourself, apparently.

>>8001014
Here's your single shred, you can DYOR next time, your larping NEET piece of shit. Bill Miller's hedge fund has over 50% of its capital in crypto:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/bill-millers-hedge-fund-has-half-its-money-in-bitcoin.html

Now bye faggot. Saging your shit-tier FUD.

>>8001198
Kek

>>8001145
I started researching in september, and I started dollar cost averaging begin of december. I am still up 400% even tho I rode to the top, but also all the way to the bottom.

I also have I team with

Watchbro: >>7729404
and Infosec: >>7870389

send me a message on telegram: @tonybtc2 Im sure we can help eachother out

i'm an indebendend finangial analysd who runs my own deam of advisers, and in dhe lasd 6 mondhs we've godden many requesds for grybdogurrengy advige and bordfolio managemend. Well led :DD me dell you whad we've found:

dhere are berhabs ad mosd 100-150 individuals dhad move dhe endiredy of dhe grybdo sbage. In dhe lasd 3.5 mondhs we've run sdadisdigal analysis and modeling dhad widhoud a doubd shows dhad dhe whole grybdo marged :DD is dhinner dhan anyone on dhe gonsumer side (dhad's you) realises, odherwise you wouldn'd dough dhis marged :DD. Our analysis shows dhad id only dages bedween $2.3mm do $3.8mm do drive dhe brige of bdg widhin 3-4% from sbod, and a mere $6mm do be able do manibulade swings of ub do 10% from sbod widhin a 12 do 24 hour window. Addidionally, dhere are no large insdidudional invesdors in dhe grybdo sbage, no madder whad you dhing you believe. Behavioral analysis engine we wrode running on a bowerful glusder of neural nedworg learning algos, oberading widhin a brobriedary game-dheoredig model of bayesian brobabilidy, absoludely broves do us dhad dhe wealdhiesd endidy dhad regularly drades gondrols no less dhan 8% of dhe dodal goins on dhe oben marged, widh dhe negsd wealdhiesd endidy gondrolling abbrogs. 6% of all goins draded :DD. We gnow dhis based :DD on dime-variand dransagdion dedails dhad we gan analyse for gorroboraded :DD agdividy agross egsghanges. Dhe way we gnow dhere are no agdual insdidudionals involved :DD is dhad dhe endiredy of dhe agdively draded :DD marged :DD is agdually only aboud $1.6b deeb, whigh begame abbarend when analysing arbidrage obbordunidies reladive do brige agdion from smaller egsghanges do larger ones.

>>8001391
You're all being dagen for a ride. Dhe longer you sday in dhis marged, dhe greader dhe dendengy dowards going negadive on your inidial invesdmend unless and only unless you god in below $1000 bdg and do nod agdively drade. Almosd everyone here who is bosidive over dheir inidial will begome negadive over dhe negsd year or bossibly dwo if dhey aren'd egsberd draders. Buy and hold is nod an obdion in dhis marged :DD beguase whad dhe marged :DD movers are sedding ub is a sysdem wherein dhere is no "reserve" grybdo lige bdg dhad gan be "relied :DD ubon" do agd as an indegs of dhe marged :DD. Meaning, whadever you dhing you gan buy and hold long derm will only lead you do holding bags dhad will never ingrease in value over your buy in, unless you god in egsgebdionally low. Dhen dhey rise and rebead. Dhis will be dhe new baradigm dhad dhey're worging dowards imblemending righd now. Id's only when dhis sgheme is fully in blage dhad insdidudionals will gome in, as dhey gan sibhon money away durn afder durn from gonsumers drying do mage money from "gonsdandly abbregiading asseds" lige ald-goins in a bull marged :DD.

>>8001198

do you think Bill Miller didn't divest at the peak? At his highest investment he held about $51 million worth of bitcoin, which would put him within the largest 10 individuals operating actively on the exchanges. He bought his bitcoin under $1000, which is what I said in the OP. Also "Miller told the newspaper he isn't buying more bitcoin for the fund at current prices." Which fits totally in line with what I said as well.

One man with one small fund of about $150MM is not "institutional money," that's a tasting fund. If you think $51MM in holdings is "institutional money" then you're a total fucking retard who doesn't know what real money actually is. I do business with clientele who move $50MM+ of gross profits through their modestly sized LLCs quarterly.

You're a total fucking moron.

>>8001415
>clinging to delusion to deal with cognitive dissonance after being called out and proven wrong
Holy shit man go see a shrink.

Reported to FBI

>>8001451

Lol, keep lying to yourself and buying into the media hype from December, you fucking imbecile. You WILL lose money, and then you'll remember me, and I'll be laughing at you in your memory.

>>8001464
You really should learn to hide your hatred of the goyim if you want to shill here. I can feel those thousands of years of resentment dripping from every line you type.
Tone it down next time and you might catch more fish.

>>8001464
You've proven yourself to be an irrational fanatic already. Nobody is listening to you. It would be different if you took in the contradictory evidence and processed it into your opinion, but what you did was press for evidence as if it didn't exist and then dismiss it with unfounded claims you just made up in your head to reinforce your initial claim. This is the literal definition of delusion. Seek mental help. Not even trolling.

>>8001184
> States that no institutional money holds crypto. Shown list of hedge funds. Backpeddles, demand proof they hold crypto.
Yeah, little H&R block man, its on you to prove they don't. That's how arguments work. You don't get to say ridiculous claims and then make the other side do the work for you. Stick to you $100 clients, you're too stupid for crypto. And that's saying a lot considering the autists here.

>>8001539
>>8001539
>considering the autists here

>>8001528

The "evidence" posted was one man with a very, very small fund that never held more than $51MM worth of exposure to bitcoin. That's not institutional money. The fact that you think it is is exactly my point. Also, it was media hype from December when the market movers were paying to have stories run to continue driving up the price so they could dumb on retards like you.

And they did. And they will continue to, because you're just that fucking stupid.


>>8001539

>Yeah, little H&R block man, its on you to prove they don't.
>prove a negative is logical

This is why you will lose money in crypto anon. You are stupid.

>>8000023

Anon is spewing fudding propaganda.

It's impossible for me to lose money at this point. Already cashed out more than I've invested. All that can happen is stuff go to 0 and then uhh, I'm out of money I was going to use for vacations. Oh well.

>>8000453
>I own a scam company

Fixed.

I'm a an independent biz shitposter who runs my own team of imaginary friends, and in the last 6 months we've gotten many requests for cryptocurrency advice and portfolio management. Well let me tell you what we've found:

OP is a faggot!

>>8001411
>>8001391
Kino

Breddy gud :DD

>>8001594
Let's recap:
>You said no big/institutional money in bitcoin
I call you out and provide list of known hedge funds holding bitcoin
>you counter by asking for one shred of evidence they hold
I provide link to interview with one of the most notable hedge fund managers today saying his fund holds half its capital in btc
>You make up mental fantasy of Miller doing what YOU think he would do, without providing evidence of this claim, mind you
I call you out again
>You regress into anger

Seriously man, I'm not even fucking with you, you need to see a shrink. You've got a mental disorder that needs diagnosis.

>>8000023
>financial advisor discovers and a mere $6MM to be able to manipulate swings of up to 10% from spot within a 12 to 24 hour window.
>doesn't swing the market himself

you're not gonna make it, OP

>>8000046
>unless you got in below $1k
You realize that's most of /biz/ right? Newsflash dumbfuck, anons run this market.

>>8001594
A negative proof is hard, but not impossible retard. Its a common misconception by people who know just enough to think they're smart but aren't. You made the claim they don't hold crypto, so that difficult burden lies upon you. But that's neither here now isn't it, since you've backpeddled once again and are now claiming that an institution that holds a small amount of crypto doesn't count. You've been doing nothing but retreating. Now go back to doing tax returns before you hurt yourself.

>>8001740

>I call you out and provide list of known hedge funds holding bitcoin

I searched 3 of them at random + the term bitcoin and found nothing, which suggested to me you just looked up random hedgefunds to make your busllshit point, which is true, since none of them hold bitcoin.

>I provide link to interview with one of the most notable hedge fund managers today saying his fund holds half its capital in btc

You linked to Bill Miller talking about a minuscule holding of bitcoin in the amound of $51MM within a tiny fund of only $150MM in total assets, within a FOMO piece written near the height of the bitcoin bubble, from a man that bought BTC under $1000, and in face many of it under $500, and who, like anyone else with a fucking clue, saw the writing on the wall of a developing bubble and dumped on you dipshits before January.

I defy you to find me one shred of evidence his fund is still exposed to BTC, and I assure you that you won't.

>>8001843

LOL, no. The majority of those who got in early were on sites like slashdot and reddit back when reddit was a site for tech nerds. This shithole only became aware of crypto in the last year, and the vast majority of them in the last 3 months. You're a bunch of latecomers and patsies who will end up being eternal bagholders.

>>8001844

>You made the claim they don't hold crypto, so that difficult burden lies upon you.

Incorrect. I can make that initial assertion because I've seen the lack of evidence IN THE TRADING DATA that there are no insitutionals involved in market making. YOU are the one that made the positive claim to have verifiable evidence that there are institutinals invested, which you have failed flatly to do, beside one FOMO piece from fucking CNBC about one man and his tiny tasting fund.

You're an imbecile.

>>8001391
>>8001411
Kek :DD

>>8001954
>LOL, no. The majority of those who got in early were on sites like slashdot and reddit back when reddit was a site for tech nerds. This shithole only became aware of crypto in the last year, and the vast majority of them in the last 3 months. You're a bunch of latecomers and patsies who will end up being eternal bagholders.
You're severely entirely ignorant, at least half of the people who got in before 2011 were on /g/ and later came here.

>>8001954
Also
>this shithole only became aware of crypto in the last year
This alone shows how little you know when this entire board was created as a crypto containment board.

>>8001954
> Makes assertion based on imaginary evidence that has not been disclosed to us, from magic ai cluster, claims we need to prove him wrong.

Step back and realize this absurdity of this please, if you're mentally capable of that. Which I'm not sure you are, at this point.

>>8001499

he cries out in pain as he strikes (((everytime)))

>>8001954
>this shithole only became aware of crypto in the last year
Fukken wewwwwwwwwwww lad lmao

>>8001954
>more delusion
Yeah I've had enough of this. Believe it or not I have better things to do than argue with mentally ill people. Good luck man, seriously. Please see mental healthough professional. Many disorders that present with symptoms of delusion are treatable.

>t. minor in psychology

>>8001954
lol you are that one faggot making multiple nocoiner cope threads and replying to every single post

>>8002183
OP is a massive lying larp faggot.

>>8002225

>t. minor in psychology

Makes sense why you're too stupid to understand what the cryptomarket actually is, you pseudoscientific iberal arts majoring retard.

>>8000023
> Behavioral analysis engine we wrote running on a powerful cluster of neural network learning algos, operating within a proprietary game-theoretic model of Bayesian probability

this sounds like hot shit. im a math/statistics/code nerd, please post some screens of your operation; im heavily interested and my dick is getting hard.

>>8000023
ha.
What you're basically suggesting is in incalculably small parameter for vars in a pareto model
so literally impossible from the point of view of proper modeling. go get fucked somewhere else.

>>8002544
Pretty sure he's just throwing around random buzzwords. I'm surprised there is no "deep" in there.

>>8002347
But he said that was his minor, holy shit retard larping OP can’t even process language anymore

>calling anybody who doesn't agree with you itt a retard
sure i believe you Op. Not trying to spread fud at all are ya. Do you get a kick out of it or are you really so stupid you think you can influence the market through this board?

>>8001668
gold

>>8000494
>Nuclear Phynance
>http://nuclearphynance.com/Show%20Post.aspx?PostIDKey=185823

They have posts about FPGAs automated trading. c lang is too slow...

>>8000023

And you've surely gone to that trouble and are telling us this out if sheer kindness, right?

>>8000023
This is some very good work. Thanks for sharing.
They won't listen btw.

So what you’re saying is we are the smart money?

>op: i don't care about all you loser neets and your internet money, and you're all fucked, crypto is doomed, ahahaha
>op: and despite not caring about you and wishing you ill, i will take a bunch of time out of my day to argue on this scammy oriential image board just why you're fucked, because i don't care about you and wish you ill
thanks just 100k

>>8000023
>a new market can be easily manipulated

Fuck me i bet your services cost 1000’s

>>8000567

>I don’t care, lose money.

If that were true you’d never have posted.

The smartest man in the room is most often one of the most quiet.

If you have to tell people you’re an alpha, you aren’t.

People who don’t care, simply don’t.

You fail, you’re a failure.

OP I appreciate your time sharing your insights. I am bullish on crypto but this post made me reconsider my strategy. Do you think crypto like Jibrel Network which tokenizes real assets, and thus replaces btc, will have its place in the new paradigm you are talking about? Cheers

>>8000023
If you had to guess, who are the 150 crypto-whales?

Early adopters who gained huge holdings at low cost?

Late adopters with massive capital who entered for the purpose of market manipulation?

I would be surprised if there were no hedge funds in this space. Experienced traders can use all the old strategies that have been outlawed in traditional markets.

But you are right, this game is clearly rigged. The only way to win is not to play.

>>8001594
You said in your original post that a few million can move the market. He has 51 million in. So he is the king of crypto...or?

>>8000023
I like the strategy you advise but next time lose the larp.

>>8000023
>Behavioral analysis engine we wrote running on a powerful cluster of neural network learning algos, operating within a proprietary game-theoretic model of Bayesian probability
Do you just string series of words together and hope people are dumb enough to think you are intelligent?

>>8000046
>get in at 6k dip
>already doubled your investment, tripled with good alt pick
Wooooooooooooooooowwww making money in crypto market sure is hard, not like most of anons already got back their initial investment

HEY OP

post evidence or get the fuck out. why the fuck should any of us believe some retarded larping faggot? drop the data on your fake study and let someone smarter than you interpret it, if it even fucking exists.

just kidding, i know it doesn't exist.

>>8000023
>muh cluster of buzzwords means something
kill yourself, filthy nocoiner

>>8002168

>>8000567
>>8000046
>>8000023

lol nocoiners

OP dropped his mask, obvious larp, mostly pointless drivel.

Thanks for sensible chuckle OP

>>8001415
>I am right
>gets btfo
>moves goal posts
>gets btfo again
>claims I was right all along!
>btfo even more
You really are stupid, aren’t you?

Might be revolutionary,might not. I got in under 1k so who gives.

>>8000023
Not sure if LARP but I believe this. I've come to realize crypto is basically a small group of individuals who have premined shitloads of BTC back in the day, who basically move the market. Most of the plebs are in a boat, just riding the waves, hoping to make money.

I can't see how REAL institutional money has entered crypto knowing it is unregulated, and they have the potential to get fucked by whale NEETs who have large sums of fake internet money.

A lot of people think "institutional" money has entered, but it's just retail investors that may be investing under the guise of an institution.

And this is easily explainable by the fact that 95% of crypto investors don't understand how marketcap works. They literally think it is billions that leave/enter, or can't understand that majority of volume on trades for various cryptos is due to wash trading/bots.

The one thing I would say to counteract what you are saying, is if we see more FIAT/crypto gateways, we could see a better indicator of marketcap. In addition, I'd say give it another 1-2 years to see if any of these projects truly make a dent in the real world. If not, time to drop and move on.

>>8000567
>17 posts by this ID
>I don’t really care