/biz/ - Business & Finance

Used to hate it, until i found a space that has my laptop screen fave the wall... Feels like being a boss!

>>639579
They contrive a superficial sense of community which employees could have in cubicles if they genuinely wanted it.

http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/15/why-the-open-office-is-a-hotbed-of-stress/


Theyre the ultimate in an unproductive workforce. Every study on open office productivity has confirmed this.


>tfw software developer and every tech company thinks it's hip to have an open floor plan with a jamba juice bar and a ping pong table with dogs running around instead of a place actually conducive to, ya know, work

Kill me.

>>639579
>Are open plan offices the ultimate in wageslave humiliation? At least with a cubicle you get a small expectation of privacy.
Sounds like an item in the Sims

>>639636
Oooh.

>>639638
>jamba juice bar
I knew it, it IS a Sims item!

>>639579
Its not wageslave humiliation, more hippie company policy. Best layout for wageslaving is cubicles with the desk facing out to the walkway so you're not staring at a corner and can talk without having to turn away from your screen.

>>639638
>http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/15/why-the-open-office-is-a-hotbed-of-stress/

At my company we have offices with around 40 people in each of them and it's brilliant.

You know, when you're in a team you actually need to TALK to each other and it's a lot easier in an open space office.

>>639682
Your work must not require quiet or concentration.

>>639579
>work in cubicles
>it's okay
>office being renovated so moved to a new building
>new building has like these half cubicles
>awkward as fuck
>you look up and someone is right in your face
>can't have any conversation without everyone hearing everything
We have fucking community and talk to each other without these retarded half cubicles.

I just don't understand how all these tech companies with billions of dollars can't put up some fucking walls so their programmers can program better.

Panopticon in disguise

>>639579

I can only imagine that it is horrible. Privacy is a prerequisite for most people to be comfortable and successful in their jobs.

>>639579
>the ultimate in wageslave humiliation?
>>639795
>Panopticon in disguise

Sounds like an endorsement to me.
Except I'll put the higher ups' desks on platforms about a foot high, with slightly more comfortable chairs.
Maybe add a rotating wheel to the wall so they can tucker themselves out.

>>639579

HR here. It's mostly to keep autists from sneaking in. This floorplan drives them fucking insane. And if they do get in, at least they don't get to do pic related.

>>639852
>HR here.
Tits or GTFO.

It's the fucking tyranny of the extrovert

"The largest securities trading floor in the world. The 103,000 square-foot operation has 40 foot arched ceiling freeing it of columns or walls. The size of three football fields, it is home to 1,400 traders and staff who handle about $1 trillion worth of transactions a day. It is roughly 227 feet wide by 410 feet long. UBS officials have boasted that a 747 jet could turn around in it"

>>639925
prison seems like heaven compared to this. at least when a minority is raping you, you get some privacy

>>639579
>wageslave

wageslaving at 6 figures... i don't really care what the company does with their furniture so long as I get paid. telework 3 days a week too...

>>639925

that ceiling made the architect inside of me cum.

>plot twist
>married to an architect.

>>639579

Storytime!

>work in midsize company a few years back
>~500 employees
>"knowledge economy" sector, so everyone's a giant autist
>everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, gets their own private office to use as they please, all of which are at least 12x10 and half of which have windows
>somehow, social interaction is still frequent and meaningful, and collaborative work is frequent
>company is hugely profitable and killing the competition
>leadership decides to build a new building with all our cash
>"if you like your office, you can keep it!"
>uh_oh.jpg
>floorplans are unveiled
>they're open plan, segregated into "mega-cube" pens of 6-8 people
>"collaborative work" spaces with couches and shit
>all glass walls
>only VP's and up get offices, aka ~5% of the company
>everyone throws a giant shitfit
>management responds by firing a half-dozen people on trumped-up excuses pour encourager les autres
>more people threaten to quit
>management essentially replies "don't the the door hit you in the ass on the way out"
>go full speed ahead on the move
>>>fast forward a year
>literally HALF the workforce has quit
>everybody hates each other because they have to interact with other autists all the time
>productivity goes through the floor
>we lose a bunch of business because there's just not enough people left to take it, we can't hire fast enough because interviewers are actively discouraging candidates, and the ones left are overworked and under-supported
>revenues fall
>profits fall
>I get my vesting and give my notice the next day.

As far as I know they're still in business, but I'd be shocked if they're around five years hence.

Open Office floor plans are a classic example of buying an Aircraft Carrier and training an army to use one without having any Jets because [successful country] has one.

Open office plans are a function of corporate culture where personnel is divided up into small teams - its "open office" but essentially each team has their own workspace.

In essence its having a lot of tiny, discreet startups that work on specific products, rather than having a 100 programmers work on a single project where they just churn tickets.

Since "Silicon Valley" companies grow into large sorta-related startups, open office plans make more sense as "collaboration" is likely to happen more often. If the rules are set and you know what to do, and you don't need to talk to anyone - you just work from home (or get a pair of headphones).

Outside companies see this, and Facebook developing a huge open office campus and think "oh wow facebook must be doing well because they have a huge open office, we need one too", then run developer productivity into the ground because instead of imagining small teams, they now have a goddamn classroom (like >>639925) stepping over and distracting each other.


I'm not saying open office is king, but there are certain corporate culture standards that lend to it and applying it everywhere because Facebook/Google/Twitter have them is pants-on-head retarded.

>>639579
>not being good enough at your job to have your own office.

lel

>>639579

It's proven to be more stressful since if you take a 5 minute break to browse whatever you'll feel inclined to think that people are watching and thus you'll be seen as a slacker.

Another "great idea" was unlimited time off. It sounds wonderful until it was shown that workers would actually take less time off because they did not want to be seen as lazy.

These ideas are simply designed to grind the last ounce of effort inside of you. You notice how some days go by where you maybe put in 3-4 hours of work and just chill for the rest of the day? That's not possible anymore... because you do not want to be seen as the member that doesn't work. It's stressful as shit.

My old company's headquarters did this and it was shit. It was too difficult to make phone calls because of the noise. The upper level managers still had their own office and created resentment.

>>639579
>>639638
>>639669
>>639781
>>639796
>>639960

sttory time!!

this was initially posted in /fit/

>cubicle office, lots of people
>fat as fatass worker in it
>company decides to use some ot those balls to seat, saying it's god forthe back, it will save money in insurance by preventing back injuries
>first day, everybody with an awkward ball as a seat
>30 minutes of the first day
>suddenly, a scream

>BLAM!!!

>fatass cubicle destroyed, the neighbour's cubicle starts to shake
>cubicles start to fall in a domino shape
>one straight minute of cublicles falling one after another
>whole office is a mess
>survivors screaming for help
>some people needed medical assistance

>turns out, the fatass fell, pushed it's cublicle in its fall and the rest followed
>itwasgoingtohappen.jpg
>office closed for 3 days straight, cleaning the mess
>thousands of dollars lost on broken computers, broken cublicles, broken chairs and desks
>people injured everywhere
>thousands lost on company's responsibility to pay for hospital bills
>fatass tried to sue the company
>don't know if sucessful
>The story is still a legend told from generation to generation in /fit/'s fat people stories

>>639784

Because a manager somewhere is always looking to cut costs.
A cubicle costs about $1,000
http://www.fastcubes.com/office-cubicles/workstation-cubicles/6x6x53h/

If you have 1000 employees in an office and you say they don't need cubicles you just saved $1,000,000 when you upgrade your office.

Sadly the people who make decisions on how to upgrade the office are not the ones who are affected by their decisions and do not have to worry about office productivity.

It promotes collaboration and yes you don't get to look at porn all f'n day. Typically there loft like with raised ceilingc hoping this will help you think bigger...

>>639779

I guess programming doesn't require quietness or concentration by your standards.

No, it's just we're not a bunch of fucktards who yell all the time like 5 year olds.

>>639852
>It's mostly to keep autists from sneaking in
>tfw I'll never make it in the job market
Why?

>>639925
This triggers my autism

I don't think I could survive for ten minutes working in such a large crowd

HOW DO YOU PEE if you're in the middle of the fucking crowd

STOP

>>641046

you stand up and walk five minutes to the toilet, just like you did in highschool and college

>>641049
>Stand up
>Try to walk past 20 rows of people
>Keep head down cause I don't want to talk to them
>Walk manually
>Look like a creep because I'm walking manually
>Trip on something
>Use bathroom
>Now look like a slacker because I drink a lot of water and take frequent bathroom breaks

Fuck you and fuck open office plans

>tfw company is still pretty old school
>tfw office area with 4cubicles
>tfw work in a lab space1/3 dedicated to me
>tfw have gone days without saying more than good morning to people
>tfw if i work after 5pm i can blast music and no one gives a shit.
>tfw productive af because I have internal standards as to what a good amount of work is

>>640008
fucking 100% this... My manager can see my screens now, BRB switching tabs faster than the speed of light, BRB suffering from PTSD and twitching everyime I here a noise behind me

>>641052
surprise surprise,a turd party being lazy

>>640460
/fit/ has the best eternal fat-shaming threads
I go there primarily to feel better about my own autistic, lanky body

Open office cubicles just makes bad neighbors worse.

One asshole in the office is always on the phone blathering away with usually one or two lines on hold. Said phones make obnoxious beeping that can be heard 30 feet away while holding.

Another guy whistles along to 90's chick rock and Broadway's latest and greatest. His neighbor is a rageaholic who is prone to random fits.

Some other guy likes to bring left over food to work. Half the food is rotten fish of some sort that smells like flaming garbage.

Only newbies actually give a shit about people looking over their shoulder about what they're doing after two weeks. Anybody stupid enough to say anything about it gets thoroughly castigated for it.

Meanwhile, I have to somehow block all this shit out and write some code.

I'm fine with open plan offices as long as the people are grouped by job.
I used to work surrounded by other software devs and it was great as we mostly worked in silence, could ask for help/advice when required, etc.

Now I work were we are mixed in with business and sales guys and it's fucking horrible because obviously the need to communicate a lot more and are generally more outgoing people. One benefits is a couple of the sales chicks are hot and were sexy office clothes

>>641104
Not really sure what you're trying to say.

>>639852
Why would someone do this?

>Fucking trophy in the back

>>639963
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

>cubicles for employees
>some collaborative meeting spaces with white boards scattered throughout
>conference rooms for big get together
Seems to work for us, why just do one? Lazy planning

>>640727
>Typically there loft like with raised ceilingc hoping this will help you think bigger...
BRILLIANT

>>639952
>plot twist
>back to plebbit

>>640460

Yeah, this never happened.

>>640460
>>The story is still a legend told from generation to generation in /fit/'s fat people stories

ebin meme friend, just more proof this never happened. /fit/ is full of underage and people who have never worked before, just making up FPS so they have something to share.

>>640008
>unlimited time off
How does this work? Do you get paid less or do you make up the hours later?

>>641052

get a dock and a monitor plebian

>>641102

install a privacy screen

>>641922
The cubicles aren't assigned. You sit wherever there's space.

>>639852
What the hell is that shit?

>>640008
>You notice how some days go by where you maybe put in 3-4 hours of work and just chill for the rest of the day? That's not possible anymore... because you do not want to be seen as the member that doesn't work. It's stressful as shit.
>Actually working during the time you are being paid to work is stressful as shit

>>641102

Protip: If you work for a company larger than 5-6 people, your manager has always been able to see your screen.

>>642053
>>642064
Haven't worked a real job yet, have you?

We have a similar set up at our work place (press agency) separated by resorts (economy, politics etc.) with the editor in chief being in the middle and the editor of for example the economy department, being at the desk closest to the middle. Works pretty well in my opinion, but I guess that's partly due to the job nature

>>642069

>a real job where people claim its stressful to do the job without being able to randomly fuck off on facebook for 5 paid hours a day
>a real job where management is not able to remotely access and monitor what an employees computer is doing

>>642069

They often use software to track internet usage and can see your screens on call.

>>642085
>>642097
>a real job where management is not able to remotely access and monitor what an employees computer is doing
Yep, confirmed for never having a real job. Enjoy being a monkey, have a banana!

>>642100

Tell me what you think a real job is and I will tell you how your boss has been looking over your shoulder since the day you walked in the door

>in before "I'm my own boss and made $238482742848 selling pocket lint on eBay last month"

>>642100
haha. Where did you find this one?!

>>642109
If your immediate boss actually has the time to monitor what you're doing on your computer, it is because that is part of his job, i.e., you can't be trusted to do your own job so you need a supervisor. People with real jobs rarely have to put up with this (with some exceptions such as the government). The fact that you do proves that you are nothing more than a replaceable chimp with no respect.

>>642123

>2015
>a separate monitor that displays every employees screen at once and glancing at it every so often when the Facebook logo flashes up, is waaaaay too advanced and science fictiony.

>>642130
>>a separate monitor that displays every employees screen at once and glancing at it every so often when the Facebook logo flashes up, is waaaaay too advanced and science fictiony.

>he thinks this exists in every workplace

what kind of office are you working in

>>642132

Any given office in the world that has more than 5 people working on a computer.

>>642133

ah, so you've never worked in any office then

gotcha

>>642135

>I dont want to admit that my manager actually manages me
>anyone who says differently clearly doesnt know anything about management and real work

>>642140

I asked about your orwellian multi screen super seekrit spy setup, kid

don't go changing the goalposts, you are the one that said every office had them, i was just asking where you worked that had them

it's really obvious you've never worked in an office

>>642132
>>642135

it exists in my workplace, FB is also blocked completely as is youtube and most other social websites

if you work in a company larger than 100 people, then you're going to be monitored. Don't you remember growing up in school and the teachers monitoring you? It's not rocket science.

>>642146
every workplace has network monitoring

that's not what he described

>>642145

>you are the one that said every office had them
>every office

Where?

Your particular workplace may not have a specialized monitor setup for the task, but if you truly think that your manager does not have the ability keeps tabs on what you are actually doing on the clock and actively does so, then you are delusional.

>my manager is too busy doing his job to watch what I'm doing
>your managers job IS to watch what you're doing

>>642152

having your screen be duplicated on a window on your boss's is apart of "network monitoring"

seriously though, have you not worked at a large company before? They tell you all of this before you sign your name

>>642146
Big difference between company-wide network monitoring and having your boss/zookeeper constantly look over your shoulder to make sure you're actually working.

>>642152

Oh I see now, you're so autistic that you took my suggestion that a company may have multiple users screens displayed on a single, separate monitor, as just one of dozens of ways of showing a manager multiple users activities, as being mandatory practice that takes place in every single office around the globe.

Yeah, good luck with that "real" job.

>>642162

>there is a big difference between your boss looking at what you are doing and your boss looking at what you are doing.

>>642161
you haven't read the posts and you're clearly not paying attention

we know how network monitoring works, stop shitting up the discussion

>>642158
I know my manager can keep tabs on me, why don'y you re-read my initial post where I stated that it seems as though you believe this exists in every office

you then clarified you do believe that by saying
>Any given office in the world that has more than 5 people working on a computer.

honestly if you can't keep up with a simple thread on 4chan then there's no danger of you ever getting a job where anyone even trusts you with a computer, let alone monitors you

>>642168

>"any given" means "every" now

Yes, I'm the one who cannot keep up.

>>642164
>calls me autistic
>can't word his posts to convey what he actually means
>can't understand other peoples posts even on a basic level

yeah, good luck, kid. i'll take fries with that

>>642171
>any given

do you even know what you're writing

any given, that literally means any one

so if ANY one you walked into had it, what would that mean? hmm

Open plan offices make sense for creative spaces like google but they really don't work for law firms / accounting firms / etc.

I work for a law firm and I have no idea why we have an open office. It makes it difficult to work on your own because of all the noise around you and furthermore, the noise level makes it a requirement that any team work needs to be done in conference rooms.

Management shouldn't need to see our screens because we're all so busy most of the time that we're working 12-16 hours a day; what does it matter to them if I'm checking out facebook for 1 minute?

>>642174

In what world does "any given" mean "any one"? Do you actually understand what the word "any" means?

>>642167
Do you think your boss's boss is monitoring him all day? Face it: you are at the bottom of the totem pole. You are a monkey.

>>642178
in this world, anon

it's not my fault you can't understand simple phrases and convey information like a pakistani tech support worker

>>642179

Yes, because that is his job. Who said anything about all day? Flipping to a different tab for a couple of seconds every so often, or glance up at a screen is hardly the most difficult task on earth.

>>642180

>any
>used to refer to one or some of a thing or number of things, no matter how much or how many.
>no matter how much or how many
>hurrrrr that means every

>>642183
any given does mean every though

good job not being able to understand basic english

the word any on it's own is not what you wrote

>>642189
This is actually correct

>>642177

Because you should be working for every fucking minute you are at work you stupid fucking goy

>>642177

You should be working every fucking minute you are at work you stupid fucking goy

>>642189

So if I walked up to you and say "The package is coming today. It could be in any given Fedex van" it would mean that the package was simultaneously in every Fedex van?

>>642199
no, because you said "could be"

if you said "there is a package for you in any given fed ex van" then that means every van contains a package for me

the latter is how you worded your previous statement

you are just showing how ignorant you are

>>642183
>Yes, because that is his job.
top kek. what about the boss's boss's boss? Do you think every morning the CEO sits in his big comfy chair, turns on dozens of monitors, and checks up on middle management?

>>642201

every single one I've been with has, or has some "productivity manager" do it for them

>>642183
>>642178
>>642171
But he is right you flaming faggot.

"Any given" Y has X means that every Y has X.

If we take any given Y (meaning *any* on of them) and we know it will have X, that means all of them have X.

>>642225
le anecdote faise

You guys must work in the most untrusting high turnover offices in the world. Is everyone in this thread members of call centers in India?

I work for a large Consulting group and we have our own laptops and a company computer. No one once demanded to see my personal computer to instal super secret bugs and Orwell.exe.

In a real office environment, you have projects and you accomplish them. Good managers know that some people need to look at porn, play online poker or check facebook throughout the day to blow off steam. As long as the project gets done by the time it is due, there is no reason to even concern yourself with their process.

The only places that would watch you heavily and keep track of every step you make are archaic fear mongering offices that need you constantly doing some mundane task.

I know someone in our international equity section who just binge watched breaking bad all week because the markets don't open until noon and he has nothing to do before then every day.

>>642097

This is a pile of bullshit. They would have to pay people to monitor everyones activity which they are not going to do.

>>642177
>Management shouldn't need to see our screens because we're all so busy most of the time that we're working 12-16 hours a day; what does it matter to them if I'm checking out facebook for 1 minute?
>what does it matter to them if I'm checking out facebook for 1 minute?
It's called wage slaving for a reason. You're a willing slave. For that time, they own you. If the owner says "No looking at my daughter, just keep your eye on the field, nigger", then you keep your eye on the field. Nigger.

>>641051
This is the most beta greentext I have read in ages.

>>639579
My Dad is a CEO of a huge multinational and he sits amongst his employees in the open plan office. It's just the done thing here in East Asia though, it's more the Western world which have cubicle farms.

>>642253
This anon seems to know what's up.

I worked in a call centre before my current job. Minimum wage, absolutely terrible working conditions. Scolded for going to the toilet outside of breaks. Staff members reviewing your calls if sales weren't on target (none of those targets were achievable. If only 20% of staff could achieve them, they're poor targets). Had to be in a call 90% of the working day, which didn't account for time spent filling in info between calls. This is an office environment where staff members DID watch over your shoulder and scolded you for having the internet open, not just for facebook. People didn't choose to work here as one of their top choices and staff turnover rates were nuts. I got out after 3-4 months.

In my current job, I'm treated like a person. I don't go on facebook (and didn't at the call centre) because I respect my employers. I drink a decent amount of water, so I take hourly breaks to go for a leak and blow off some steam. Since I'm a trainee programmer, I blow off steam on a bad day by browsing tech related articles. I work longer, have less breaks and do more/harder work, but I'm overall happier. If my boss does monitor me, he doesn't give a shit. This is a firm with 90+ employees. My boss/manager is too busy to be monitoring people as long as the work gets done.

And it does, because he's not a mongoloid who distrusts his staff and puts them in a hostile/unfriendly environment.

>>642610
did you go to SAS?

>>642613
Nope.

>>642616
which school m8

>>642610
>Western world which have cubicle farms
Its the US, no one else. Cubicles dont really exist in Europe either.

>>639963

Yep

It's the "keeping up with the Joneses' " mentality

>>642064
Given how many fresh installs I've done to my computer - I doubt this.

I keep forgetting that this isn't the norm. God I wish I worked in a fucking cubicle, would be absolute bliss.

>>639579
most companies in western Europe have open offices. Cubicles are typical American

>>642966

>>642970

that dude with the corner is the king of that place

>>642555
I worked in big offices up to about 2008.

At one place, they just installed a firewall that blocked access to certain sites like Facebook, etc.

At another, they blocked some social media sites but just kept an IP log. If you went to something like personal email or whatever, they 'flagged' it and eventually that got to the manager.

Under no circumstances did the manager have a magic application that allowed him to look at someone else's monitor.

I can imagine that some companies do this in 2015, but it's not necessary. In fact, if you are paying someone a middle-level management salary to babysit people's monitors, that a really inefficient use of company resources. That means you're paying someone something like $50-70k, possibly more depending on the industry, to watch computer monitors. Just install a basic web filter and log internet activity.

>>642966
and to be honest I'd rather work in a cubicle
i don't know what's supposed to be bad about them. cubicles rule

>>643019

>In fact, if you are paying someone a middle-level management salary to babysit people's monitors, that a really inefficient use of company resources. That means you're paying someone something like $50-70k, possibly more depending on the industry, to watch computer monitors.

Not to mention that you're paying workers you don't trust to get the job done. If your work is based on project deadlines, having someone monitor your Internet usage (as opposed to filters, etc.) is really quite pointless.

I used to work in an open office, and will be moving back to one this year. Biggest problem I had was keeping a lid on the talking. I used to work next to a guy that felt like since he could see you, he should be having a conversation with you.

>>643133
>Biggest problem I had was keeping a lid on the talking. I used to work next to a guy that felt like since he could see you, he should be having a conversation with you.

The other biggest problem is that several studies show that teamwork and collaborative efforts are usually a gigantic waste of time. People argue over minutae so they appear smart in front of the boss, then stay quiet over big decisions because they don't actually know what they are doing.

The efficient way to do teamwork is delegate out tasks and have people work their parts individually, then collate them at the end.

>>642100

I really really...


gtfo

>>639579
It kills me everyday that I would be so much more productive at work if I could have an office with a door instead of a cubicle

>>643007

No no, looking to the left you can see another monitor. He's just another normie :/

If he was alone, damn...the thought of it alone gets me so hard

My mind would slowly cave in on itself if I had to work in one of these. It's basically a panopticon.

>>643267

>The other biggest problem is that several studies show that teamwork and collaborative efforts are usually a gigantic waste of time.

See, I would have been happy if it had been work-related.

For me it was usually, "Hey chief, you see that Facebook video of that lady who got her face bitten off by a lemur?" or "What's up sport, I hear Obama's letting people use their SNAP cards for Popeye's now."

Which also would have been fine if the subjects of conversation weren't either a) videos and pictures that were at least six months old, or b) easily debunked by a trip to Snopes.

TL;DR If you work with idiots an open office is not for you, which means an open office is not for anyone.

>tfw work in a cubicle in a room with three women at a shitty customer service job

Kill me

>>639852
>HR

Opinion trashed.