/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>6394349
yeah once legacy dies

once the lightning network is up and running, why not.

>>6394349
As much as I believe in 3000 dollar transaction fees and 3 year wait periods.

FUCK no

>$21,000,000,000,000 market cap

>>6394349
that will be 16 trillion market cap + tip, sir

For Bitcoin Cash, yes.

yup, it'll happen in a few years. people who think otherwise are just poor fags rambling about muh fees

>>6394533
>currency of the future
>only the 1% can use it

No.

Bitcoin is slow and the fee becomes high. XRB is the futur.

>>6394477
>>6394596
it actually is starting to piss me off people are complaining so much on high fees and transaction fees. if you get fucked buy high transaction fees you are retarded and can only rely on yearly 10% gains so stick to stocks, if you complain about slow transaction times go back to trading runescape gold you adhd fucking nerd

your 15000 dollar transaction costs what $300? oh boo hoo do you know how fucking ridiculous that sounds

I see $1mln BCH before BTC, but at that point BCH would simply, and rightfully, be called BTC.

once LN is released, bitcoin will steamroll over every coin. but if it takes too much time launching LN another coin can kill the current king.

>>6394736
>Currency of the future
>Cant buy stuff with it

Fuck off dumb ass shill.

>>6394736
Cool story bro.

XRB has 0 fees and its faster.

>>6394596
>>6394477
>Not using a segwit wallet with custom fees

>>6394463
This

>>6394886
plenty of coins are fast and cheap. that doesn't make them valuable. enjoy your bleeding shit coin

1mil btc i believe will happen

>>6394873
how the fuck you look at bitcoin as a currency anymore is beyond me

>>6394736
>15000 dollar transaction costs what $300
>thinks this acceptable for a digital cash system

>always do the opposite of what biz says
>biz says BTC is a dinosaur shitcoin

BTC will be fine. Once alt season ends again in early March or so the real run will begin

>>6394980
>Why you look at a cryptocurrency as a currency is beyond me.

>>6395034
Alt season will end by cashing out to BCH, ETH, NEO, and XMR. BTC will just end, 1k by EOY.

at ~$350k / BTC we will have reached the market cap for all gold in the world

I dont think we will even get to that point

>>6394980
hahahah WHAT THE FUCK?

>>6394736
>your 15000 dollar transaction costs what $300? oh boo hoo do you know how fucking ridiculous that sounds

topkek

Is Bitcoin Core a fucking cult?

Wish it did act least for a day just to fuck with ppl

>>6395088
This anon understand.

>BCH, ETH, NEO, and XMR
Will do anything to scale and stay relevant

>BTC
will put all eggs in the LN basket and just hope it works while screaming at everybody that thinks otherwise.

>>6394415
>>6394463
>>6394525
>>6394802
>>6394870
>>6394980
>>6395364

>>6395364
>and just hope it works

it already works

>>6395570
>all those hops
>LNfags really think this is good

kek pic related

>>6395623
Your pic is too clever for /biz/raelis.

>>6395606
When was the last time you used the LN to trade your btc?
pro tip: it's a trick question

>>6395570
whew. Please repost when they figure out routing.
You will just claim they already did in your next virgin corecuck post but they didn't.

>>6395623
>>6395657
I got it

t. Cash Chad

>>6394349
Delusional, that's all I can say.

>>6395732
personally never but you are blind if you dont think it is happening

https://twitter.com/ArminVanBitcoin/status/949715398462668800

>>6395768
>uses forced meme from 6 months ago
/r/eddit please, lurk moar instead of being a poor fag marketing clown

>>6394463

>thread about bitcoin
>full of bcashers whining

>>6395859
>stop memeing about Cashchad you guys!!! hes a threat

1 million dollar bitcoin cash* , yes

I doubt it. Im set to sell at 999,999
I have a hunch other people might have lower sell bids

>>6394349
Yes, because ALL crypto is priced into Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the gateway crypto.

>>6394349
No, i dont have downsyndrome.
Jump to eth while you can, something that actually has value

>>639434
Only if there's scary fiat inflation. which isn't unlikely. But I think the fair value of a BTC in current dollars is between 200-300 K.

>>6394349
No, it's a shitcoin and will slowly be replaced by other (better) coins.

>>6396219

>premined shitcoins
>better

The successor for Bitcoin doesn't exist yet.

>>6396368
>anybody at all made a reference to premined coins

>>6396368
>The successor for Bitcoin doesn't exist yet.
I agree it will Indeed be hard to replace BCH with all the updates they have coming this year

>>6394349
If that happens I take every claim that something is "a mathematical impossibility" with a grain of salt.

>>6394506
so only a fraction of the world wealth?
Why not
Even the dark market is bigger than 15tril

>>6394415
>first post is bcashie coping

Classic.

>>6396798
ETH will have dominance EOQ. BCH will have dominance EOY. XMR will take 3rd EOQ2.

>>6396866
Is that your waifu, corecuck?

>>6395036
Why can't retards like you realize fees are adjustable.
The price of transactions will allways be proportional to the hashing power available/miner greed.
This applies to every coin, including pos (read, piece of shit) coins, because stakers still validate them according to what it's worth for them.

Btc fees will allways be arround 20$ for every 1000$ sent.
>inb4 5$ to send 50$
Poorfags need not apply

>>6396933
I think similar but expect a big correction on everything before that. But every day we go without popping makes a 1-2 year bubble more probable

>>6396995
you literally don't understand blockchains. Higher blocksize = more tps. Its that easy.
BCH can still add off chain if it wants later and stay at 1 cent fees the entire time while working on it.

>>6394349
>Do you believe in the $1,000,000 Bitcoin?
Yep

>>6394494
There will never be 21000000 btc

>>6397095
you can adjust difficulty you retarded newfag, to a point where tx fee only depends on difficulty consensus. This is determined by hashing power to maintain a 3 month R.O.I on asic miners.

Read a book nigger

Protip: No one wants TB long blockchains or gigabyte-sized blocks. Increasing the blocksize is a temporary but very short-sighted measure.

>>6397018
I think a majority of the correction will be Blockstream Core crashing into other coins. There could be a panic into fiat at some point, but only absolute retards actually want to hodl fiat.

>>6397101
>thinks LN is new
You can do this on BCH too. lvl 3 LN is what Blockstream Core is shilling and it isn't possible or safe. See >>6395623

>>6397095
Also
>bch

Bitcoin will remain king when all garbage realizes the code is mutable, and holders/miners will never make it die, because when bitcoin dies, the thing that made any crypto unique dies too. The fact that it was the first big crypto.

>>6397233
FUCK MOORE'S LAW AND FUCK AVAILABLE SOLUTIONS

>>6397101
>Just for you Roger
Kek

>>6397200
Are you trolling or really this confused about how blockchains work?

>>6394349
I don't believe in 50k bitcoin desu.

>>6397330
>I am a blockchain expert

Are you this confused about how difficulty adjustment works?

>>6396933
>cryptos have price based on value
keep dreaming

>>6397233
1. scaling at the cost of decentralization without completely hurting the incentives model
2. no scaling at all
pick one

>>6396798
gotta love poorfags who bought BCH and are coping cuz they wanna believe it's the real one

>>6398145
Increased block size has such a negligible effect on centralization. The only people who actually are required to run a full node are miners. What nobody seems to realize that just running a full node without hashpower does literally nothing for the network and arguably makes it less secure.

That aside, the only non-miners who should run nodes are merchants. Niggers in Africa don't need to run a worthless fucking node on their raspberry pie.

>>6397934

Idiot, the difficulty readjustment is slow as fuck and takes forever.

>>6398209
This picture should help you understand >>6395822

Short term BTC has an up target of 16k. Long term its going down. Get out while you can or Pink Wojac all of 2018.

>>6394575
Anyone can buy bitcoin who own a computer. FUCKING RETARD You are brainlet

>>6396995
>stakers still validate them according to what it's worth for them.

Incorrect lieutenant.

>>6398361
>buy $20 of btc
>cost $50 to buy a candy bar

FUTURE OF MONEY

>>6398537
So you're saying I shouldn't buy bitcoin, what should i buy then?

>>6398361
>that'll be 2 dollars for the coffee plus a 30 dollar bitcoin transaction fee
it is not viable as an everyday currency right now

>>6398259
> What nobody seems to realize that just running a full node without hashpower does literally nothing for the network and arguably makes it less secure.
How do you verify the miners don't collude? You only get to see a proof your tx is confirmed, but how do you know they really play by the rules?

>>6398259
> That aside, the only non-miners who should run nodes are merchants.
There gonna be a new kind of half-node in BCH for merchants to verify 0-conf.

>>6398290
in BCH it adjusts every block

>>6398604
Buy w/e you want, I'm not your financial advisor.

>>6398655
As I said merchants have reason to run a full node at even with 1GB blocks (which we are far off from also Moore's Law) isn't cost prohibitive. Also game theory dictates miners keep each other in check by default.

I really like EGAS, it looks like a scamcoin but even if it is, at this price it can still go 10x before it gets dumped. check it out.
Take a look@ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethgas/

>>6398746
>buy what i want
I want to buy what /biz/ says will make the most money, and if your not my financial adviser GET THE FUCK OFF /biz/

>>6398987
Reading my posts should give you a general idea of what I'm buying, do with that what you will.

>>6398537
>buying candy with any crypto

>>6399059
Yeah, fuck buying products and services and shit.

>>6399059

yeah dude just hold your coin forever and never use it. What a great model for mass adoption

>>6399057
suuuuuuuure

The amount of blegacy shills in this thread is astounding

>>6394349
BTC is done, the mempool is fucked up and LN is not gonna do anything to fix it.

Yes, especially considering that once bitcoin gets to even 100k fiat will start losing a lot of purchasing power

>>6395364
XLM and XMR will stay relevant. Rest will die at some point.

>>6399251
>XLM

Not a crypto currency, go back to Twitter.

>>6399059
>digital currency
>muh digital gold
>fee market
this is your mind on bitcuck.

>>6394415
I got 500,000 bcash from right after the fork, I've set up to a script to flood various exchanges with sell orders at 15% below market whenever it performs positively.

>>6399675
that makes so little logical sense

>>6399251
Partly agreed, but XLM will eventually die.

>Chinese scam-coin that was insanely premined
Could be good for some speculation, but it has no long-term future.

>>6399675
I can only hope this is larp, but Blockstream Corefags are this delusional so probably not.

It's possible but it'll really hard to get past 1 mil. Any higher and 1 satoshi will be more than one cent. Bitcoin will lose a lot of fungibility on that day.

What happens when it costs $1000 to open a lightning network channel?

>>6398537
>being so poor you care about how effective BTC is at buying a stupid candy bar

>>6396844
Dark market is tethered to crypto

Think when they totally merge its gonna make us so rich

>>6400274
>being so delusional that you think $50 fees just to buy things under $1 has a use case

>>6394736
>triggered

>Fork Bitcoin
>bitcoin CASH MONEY YALL
>Only change is 8mb Block size because it's faster
>Not realizing it's not because less people use it.
>Not realizing when BCH reaches the same point Bitcoin is currently at it'll experience the same problems.
>Implying that there wont be a BCH Hardfork when it starts experiencing the same issues with a similar, delusional fix

It´s the only thing keeping me alive.

>>6400507
>actually believes increased block size doesn't increase throughput
>thinks hardforks are a bad thing or new and never happened basically weekly/monthly before Blockstream Core halted all development of bitcoin
>doesn't know what a blockchain even is
>most likely got into crypto last month
>has been steadily losing money since he bought BTC at 19k

>>6394349
1 Million per BTC means the entire money in the world needs to migrate to it, including the derivatives. In that case the market cap of 2.1 quadrillion dollars can be reached.

Another scenario is the rapid devaluation of dollar. I guess it could happen in 100 years but at that point in time 1 million dollars won't mean much.

Right now both cases are extreme and I don't see any the prior case to happen before 10 years...

>>6400507
BCH can easily increase the blocks even further

>>6400639
>>6400691

If Bitcoin is having this problem with just 1Mb, how could Cash fix it with a LARGER size Block? Assuming speeds are the same how are they going to take longer to move something smaller? (1Mb v 8Mb?)

strange how little mention of MimbleWimble and GRIN I see in BTC threads

the developers are corecucks and desperately want to get it into BTC as a sidechain, but if their 'testnet' succeeds it will be the final stake in the heart of BTC

it will be adopted in Monero also, long before core find their asses

>>6400836
What? The blocks clear the transactions from the mempool. The bigger they are, the more transactions you can confirm in the same time.

>>6400836
Dude... Larger blocks hold more transactions. Meaning more throughput with less cost and lead times.

So you don't have shit like this:
https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

>>6400893
Transactions are collected in blocks, yes.
Blocks are currently transmitted in 1Mb sizes, roughly 3 transactions per.
A BCH block is 8Mb, which would be equal to 24 Transaction. You can move more transactions per block, but you can't move a larger block faster than a smaller block.
If you'll never be able to move 8Mb faster than you can move 1Mb.
Then, BCH will be capped at the same average transactions per MB that Bitcoin is.

>>6400691
sure ok, but who is BCH?
literally their dev team:
>Which Development Team is In Charge of Bitcoin Cash?
>Unlike the previous situation in Bitcoin, there is no one single development team for Bitcoin Cash. There are now multiple independent teams of developers.

>>6401164

Holy fucking brainlet

>>6401164
Wtf are you talking about? You don't need to move the blocks faster, it's about how many transactions you can clear every 10 minutes.

>>6401197
Amaury Sechet, Peter Rizun, Andrew Stone, Gavin Andresen and many others. Go to the website and click on the link that brings you to the different node implementations.

>>6401164
>cant move 8MB in 10 minutes

course not ... it'll be a fucking zimbabwean wonder if doesn't croak like all the other shitcoin in the next 3 - 10 YEARS

depending on what happens and how fast governments decide to kill it off for good

>>6401197
I'm not even going to explain, you were the victim of Core propaganda. You can HARDFORK any time you want, dummy.

>>6401297
kek

>>6401164
Wew lad.

>>6401297
How does the transfer of 8Mb vs 1Mb not make sense? Please tell me how that's wrong.

>>6401327
Yes, but BCH will be capped at the same transactions in 10 Minutes if given the same load as current bitcoin. The only reason to use Cash NOW is because less people use it. It will hit the same issues Bitcoin is currently at if in the same position.

>>6401332
>Moving larger things faster than smaller things under the same conditions makes sense to me!

>No refutation to any of this aside from logical fallacies of saying I'm retarded.

BCHers in denial.

>>6401197
>in charge
>bitcoin

I don't think you understand. You might want to stick with fiat, I heard they love authority and bootlicking in that space.

>>6401489
>Yes, but BCH will be capped at the same transactions in 10 Minutes if given the same load as current bitcoin. The only reason to use Cash NOW is because less people use it. It will hit the same issues Bitcoin is currently at if in the same position.

Are you fucking serious dude? Like what is wrong with you?

>>6394349
>21e13 market cap
straight retarded

>>6401493
there's a reason USD is the global currency
there's a reason 10-year T notes are bought

>>6401489
Does it take you 10 minutes to download 8MB? What fucking year is it? I don't think 4chan even exists yet, fuck I went back in time again.

>>6401572
Sounds like a perfect safe space for you. You should stay where its safe and daddy can tell you it'll be okay.

>>6395623
>hurrrrrrrrrrrrrr sybil attack possibru on ln hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 51% attack possible i guess that means it will happen right hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>>6401556
Aside from calling people retarded you've been spouting "MUH BLOCKSIZE" the whole thread. I've been telling you why a larger blocksize doesn't mean anything comparatively.

>>6401625
The guy was saying it matters how many blocks you can clear in 10 minutes. It's not going to be one block every 10 minutes, obviously, because of technology.

But exactly similar circumstances.
Do you understand? Similar? Same computational power.
Under similar circumstances, please tell me how you will transfer 8Mb faster than 1Mb?

That's the supposed fix all difference between BCH and Bitcoin, right?

So under SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES. You could move EIGHT 1Mb blocks, in the same time you could move ONE 8Mb block.

So how does that ACTUALLY fix anything?

>>6401739
Sybil attacks aren't possible on BCH, but possible on lvl 3 LN.

51% are possible on both, you absolute fucking retard.

>>6401796
Dude, cmon... This is pretty elementary stuff.

>>6394477
ironically this and bitcoin will be worthless by 2030

>>6401558
Do people not realise that is literally more money than all money in existence including broad money

>>6401921
Dumb fuck they are possible, that does not make it feasible or smart or mean fucking that it will ever happen. Just about any pool could COMPLETELY FUCK bcash in the ass right now, if they just get a wild hair up their ass. But they don't. Why is that?

>>6401921
Please explain it for my, apparently, retarded brain, because you haven't done anything except damage control with vague wording that doesn't mean anything either.

>>6401796
You're a fucking idiot. We don't have 1MB every 10 minutes because of technology, it's a limit in the protocol.

>>6402038
What's possible, Sybil attacks? Because no they're not.

>>6402045
8MB requires more broadband throughput the amount is fucking trivial.

>>6402208
jesus fucking christ...

>>6402084
Holy shit, I've explained that too. 1Mb holds 3 transactions.
How will 8Mb hold more than 24 transactions? (1Mb * 8 size increase * 3 transactions in a 1Mb Block)
So EIGHT 1Mb Bitocin Blocks is equivalent to ONE 8Mb BCH block.
They will travel at the same speed. So by the time ONE 8Mb Block finishes EIGHT 1Mb bitcoin blocks will be done.

>>6402208
The total throughput for both will be the same though. It doesn't fix anything.

>>6402336
dude they have 8mb blocks every 10 mins, btc has 1mb blocks every 10 mins...

>>6402336
Okay, I see what you're talking about now. You're talking about a rapid block propagation instead of 10 mins for w/e block size, right? I don't recall what, but there is an issue with faster block propagation vs something like 10 mins.

There's one big thing everyone is missing - the next recession.

When GDP falls and the stocks start crashing, we will see a moon like never before

>>6402503
That's pure speculation. We've never seen what crypto does in a recession. There's reason to believe it will go up, but we don't know.

>>6402336
>They will travel at the same speed. So by the time ONE 8Mb Block finishes EIGHT 1Mb bitcoin blocks will be done.

Wrong, by the time one 8MB block finishes, one 1MB block will be done.

You are unbelievable man.

>>6401796
>I've been telling you why a larger blocksize doesn't mean anything comparatively.

Your understanding of how the blockchain works is wrong though. That's why people are laughing at you. It's so wrong that many are assuming you are just pretending to be stupid for shits and giggles.

>The guy was saying it matters how many blocks you can clear in 10 minutes. It's not going to be one block every 10 minutes, obviously, because of technology.

It is one block every 10 minutes. The 10 minute time is just an average. Sometimes blocks are mined faster and others take longer. But in general, it's one block every 10 minutes. Because BCH has 8 MB blocks, that's 8x as many transactions in that 10 minute period.

>Under similar circumstances, please tell me how you will transfer 8Mb faster than 1Mb?

The limitation on block sizes has nothing to do with network bandwidth. That's your biggest misunderstanding. Yes, 8 MB will take longer to transmit over a network than 1 MB. But that has literally nothing to do with what everyone here is talking. Bandwidth is not the limiting factor. You seem to be under the impression that "transaction speed" = "network speed". That's not the problem at all.

>>6402503
of course it will go up
Think about bank runs
Now imagine people having no faith in the dollar, while crypto is soaring.
Think about bank runs.

>>6402751
Quality post.

I dont even believe in the 20,000 bitcoin desu senpai

>>6402751
Okay, so the way that the blockchain works is that when a block is formed from the previous block that block is then transmitted to other nodes across the chain so that you can claim proof of work incase another person finds your block, that way yours can, hopefully, be built off of.

So a larger block would still take more time to transfer to these nodes. It would also mean less nodes as the bandwith and size needed to hold the chain is increased. Which could be a security issue if we wanted to go that route.

So why does the increased block size matter then? Litecoin was formed with an increase in block speed to 2.5 minutes. Clearly no one gives a shit or more people would be using litecoin. So why does BCH larger block size mean anything if no one cares about more transactions?

Clearly just more 'muh blocksize' marketing with the bitcoin name.

Do you believe in $100,000 BTC?

>>6394870
LN is already released in at least 3 different implementations
what you mean to say is once LN is adopted* by relevant transaction channels

>>6395570
That won't work without bigger blocks. Read the LN slides, you need 113MB blocks to have worldwide statechannels.

>>6403471
I think we'll be at $25k in the next 2 weeks minimum. We won't see $14k ever again

>>6403596
Nah whales are gonna sell and throw it at ethereum since it's more stable.

>>6394463
>Implying lightning network will ever be implemented

>>6403275
How have you drawn these conclusions at all from reading this thread?

>>6403596
>We wont see below 20k ever again
>We wont see below 18k ever again
>We wont see below 16k ever again
>We wont see below 14k ever again
YOU ARE HERE

>>6395271
All signs point to yes

Are there actually fucking pro-bcash idiots on this site or is everyone LARPing? I can't believe someone would be so stupid

>>6403829
there are idiots of every persuasion on this board, all furiously shilling their own personal agendas

>>6403275
>So a larger block would still take more time to transfer to these nodes.

In terms of download or upload time, yes. That is technically correct. A larger block will take a little longer to download and upload between peers. Again though, that has absolutely nothing to do with what everyone here is talking about. The protocol specifies that a block should be mined every 10 minutes. Networks can very, very easily transfer 1, 8, or even 128 MB worth of data in a 10 minute window. That's not the limiting factor. The limiting factor is that Bitcoin says you can ONLY transmit 1 MB of data every 10 minutes, while Bitcoin Cash allows up to 8 MB of data every 10 minutes.

>It would also mean less nodes as the bandwith and size needed to hold the chain is increased.

Yes, but such a statement is more of an argument against proof-of-work as a whole rather than the specific blocksize. There is literally no one on the planet who can reasonably say with a straight face that they can mine Bitcoin Core, but that Bitcoin Cash is not practical for them because of the increased bandwidth and storage. We're literally talking about a system where miners are paying six figure electricity bills to have a reasonable chance at finding a block. You can't have a system like that and then complain that a 4 TB hard drive or 10 Mbit internet connection is unreasonable.

>>6403752
Do you genuinely believe that?
Look at charts last year.
Then look at them the year before.
Keep going.
How many times has btc died?

>>6404064
This is the first time Bitcoin has failed to do its one fucking job.