/biz/ - Business & Finance

some gains

>>5887173
its time for 680 or 700 USD in the next week.

I have been waiting for this to pick up because of tax season incoming.. not seeing changes. I wonder if people believe in it.

it's not heavily shilled anyomore so I guess it's due to some price increase soon

hardware wallets are going to be big

>>5887173

More sideways trading

>>5887604
Yup. First hardware wallet coming soon in Q1. Ledger support coming. GUI port to android also coming in Q1. Monero is slow with everything because they need everything to be 100 percent secure and private. One fuckup and they lose their brand. Monero also just drops stuff, never any buildup. Poof suddently monero on some other exchange. Poof suddently partnership/integration with other fintech/marketplace.

I think the best argument for monero is the fact that when you pay the pizza delivery with crypto, you dont want that guy going online and checking your wallet balance. Monero is not controversial its the future of crypto, atleast for a while.

Maybe the greatest

It's currently sitting beside bitcoin gold, an unironic scam, in market cap. If that isn't an indicator of being undervalued I don't know what is. Monero is the real deal but is low key. People will come around eventually with the right catalyst (hardware wallets, decreased fees with bulletproofs, chain analysis used against holders of a large project). The high emission essentially ends in 2018 so there will be less downward pressure from mining too.

>>5887941
>One fuckup and they lose their brand
Could you tell me why it's more true for Monero than any other crypto?

Sell it now, Verge is superior in every way... when this blows up to $2-5 in the next couple of weeks, don't come crying please.

>>5888050
Other cryptos that claim to be "privacy focused" usually have an option of sending a private transaction, such as zcash.

Monero has privacy as its core focus, and EVERY transaction and EVERY wallet is private and untraceable. There's shitloads of reading you can do that proves this, people have been paid to try and trace transactions or hack the network and it so far has been proven impossible.

This is the swiss bank account of cryptocurrencies, seriously.

That being said, it is very well established and so doesn't offer the risks and rewards of very new ICOs etc

>>5888050
Because their main selling point is that they are a currency, with a grassroot developed privacy tech. They don't do smart contracts (atleast not yet) or deployable blockchains or send money between fridges cheap. Ethereum can have fails like the hard fork to turn back the hack because they have this futuristic almost religious following, and their roadmap goes in all directions fueling more futuristic hype.

Monero does one (maybe boring) thing, and they do it well. If they lose their privacy they will take a huge hit.

>>5888496
AFAIK monero will not ever implement smart contracts, they consider themself as primaly as a currency and believe smart-contracts are better solved elsewhere. Monero is very open to anything that makes it more private or work better as currency, which shows up from amount of research they do.

I bought this shit like 5 days ago and all it's done is go down. Lookin at a 23% loss right now. It hasn't been this low since November, what the hell?

>>5888496
>>5888788
Is there currently any other crypto with total privacy that is developing smart contracts? Would that be extra hard to implement?

>>5888067
Vergens are getting desperate lol

>>5889001
>total privacy
There is one coin in the whole of crypto that is truly totally private, and that is Monero. The fact of the matter is Monero is a currency, it doesn't need smart contracts and I highly doubt it ever will.

Monero 2k minimum end of 2018. This coin is probably the only coin that would survive a market wide collapse.

>>5888067
>public blockchain

like thats supposed to be a good thing in a privacy coin, lol

I got impatient with it and bought some weed with it.

>>5888916
steady she goes, a lot of breakthroughs are coming out soon for xmr

>>5888067
>public Blockchain
>good
Fix that shit and we can start talking.

>>5889636
So should I buy more XMR while it's very low?

XMR is more of a coin that you would actually use and support rather than look for massive gains in imo, if any coin succeeds i hope it will be this one.

>>5889895
I am 100% XMR.

t. ancap

>>5889851

god damn that is disturbing

>>5889895
No

Buy high sell low

>>5889984

i think monero is really going to appeal to the "fuck banks" crowd...who often have lots of dough.

xmr is pure utility, when another privacy coin comes out with better tech the users move there. for now its the best but it won't be forever

Gonna stick some of my xmr into some quick gains (eng), will put profits back into xmr, as anyone should be doing now.

>>5887519
It will anon people will wait until the last day though. Tax season ends around April. You will see a massive surge then

>>5889984
THIS SO MUCH

>>5890125
>for now its the best but it won't be forever
I doubt this, monero isn't a fixed thing. There's active research, all meeting logs etc are out there open. It has community based funding, e.g. kovri developer is funded full time for $2.5m. Monero is not blocked by its own ego, and is open for replacing its own tech for sake of better coin or privacy. SPECTRE, MimbleWimble and LN they are all under research for possible adoption.

>>5890313
Monero is so fucking based. Wish I held more of it but I'm making gains elsewhere that outpace it by diversifying desu.

Ideally Monero would be THE currency everyone used though.

I just sold half my stack anon to move into VEN, I could move it back in a months time and have 4xXMR, easy life

>>5890125
Monero is doing research constantly with people who have PHD's in cryptography and get paid 120,000$ a year to search for more privacy orientated possibilities. You are beyond fucking stupid if you think another coin will go up on top. Looking into:
1. ZK-Snarks and ZK-Starks
2. Bulletproofs
3. Spectre
4. Hashgraps
5. DAG's

Pretty much everything bleeding edge they are looking at, if it looks like it will improve XMR they will prepare to hardfork to the newer standard.

This thread is helping me cope with the fact that my folio is 50% xmr and I basically missed out on all these moon missions

>>5890313

yeah, it was pretty hesitant about the far reaching future but the 6 months hard-forks and the research team won't let monero slip by, i'm sure it will always get better and better and adopt whatever tech is the best for privacy

>>5890125
There's already SUMO, which is a monero fork that improved on its shortfalls. The only thing holding sumo back is low volume/adoption rate

>>5890313
doesn't matter, the people are only using monero for privacy, and privacy via encryption is so fast moving we already have a replacement for the tech (zk-proofs) but all the coins that use it have fucked up so far.

i doubt anybody in the monero team has the capability to stay on top of this amount of research, especially given that cryptonote isn't something the monero team had any hand in creating themelves, it is after all just a fork of bytecoin.

funding won't help them when the new tech is simply incompatible with the old blockchain, and the only way to use it is via an ugly hack like a second layer on top, or essentially starting the blockchain over with "conversion" transactions.

>>5890623
it improves nothing. a fork of monero isn't worth shit. i'm talking about actual new tech.

>>5890644
>funding won't help them when the new tech is simply incompatible with the old blockchain, and the only way to use it is via an ugly hack like a second layer on top, or essentially starting the blockchain over with "conversion" transactions.
If you knew anything you were even talking about, SPECTRE is alternative to blockchain.

>>5890524
no, i'm not stupid, you're emotionally attached to a coin.

yeah, they can shove any tech they want and bloat up their already heavily power-hungry coin, or a new coin can come out that is much easier to use with provable privacy and casual users that find it easier to use will simply switch over.

monero itself didn't get any traction until DNMs started adding it, and they have the most to gain by switching over to newer coins to begin with.

>>5890619
>Caring about any other moons than XMR
>Not accumulating more while it’s still sub 400

>>5890758

you are delusional if you think the dnm will be hoping from one new privacy coin to another each time, most still bitcoin only, monero is only getting better

People have used Monero to buy on my website at 3:1 ratio out of all other coins in the last 6 months. I don't sell anything illegal. Monero is legit 'teh digital promise currency'.
Moon mission? Probably not.
Long term financial tool, like Quarters or Pound coins? Probably.

>>5890718
okay, so what? how do you mesh that with monero? hint: you don't, not without essentially creating a new coin and having to convert coins over, no different than a new coin with a fresh blockchain, and no legacy baggage.

nobody working on this stuff has any incentive to keep this tech inside monero exclusively, they will absolutely launch their own coin, and the market will take over.

>>5890850
>each time
no, it just takes once for monero to get replaced by something else, and a lot already have transitioned from bitcoin to monero. the ones that have not, will probably never.

>>5890932

keep waiting faggot

>>5890885
>hint: you don't, not without essentially creating a new coin and having to convert coins over, no different than a new coin with a fresh blockchain, and no legacy baggage.
This is the extreme case where hard-forks can't be done sanely anymore and I don't see it a huge problem. I mean we already have coins that have done this many times.

>>5890084
this

just hit 10 monero, it feels comfy

>>5891083
you're so obviously incredibly emotionally attached to monero, you need to separate your childlike emotions from the technology, because if you don't, you're going to get left behind.

>>5891092
there have been very few instances for coins with a very high cap though, its something you really want to avoid if possible, because all you keep is the branding, the tech and websites/exchanges implementing it are essentially supporting a new coin. it's not always so severe but for new kinds of privacy tech, or worse, blockchain tech, it will be.

the logic is simple: if base-layer privacy is critical, then monero's days are numbered, if it isn't, then i'd bet the trend will be to secure tokens on top of bitcoin and ethereum, instead of separate blockchains, especially ones that are difficult to use (if you want to fully utilize the privacy offered).

and i own hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of monero, but i have no delusions about it's purpose, if a better more liquid privacy coin exists, i would probably switch to it, but right now it's by far the best we have.

>>5891286
11 here
we gonna make it :')

>>5891286
>>5891471
7 :(
And I'm giving 2 to a friend to get him started in the market soon. RIP all my day trading and then some on this coin so far.

my trading goal is to acquire more monero.

>>5891302
I don't disagree with what you are saying. But I also have skepticism that monero would be replaced for long time, and if it does, the replacement most likely will be from the involved people.

>>5891647
giving away nearly a third is incredibly generous

>>5887650
this

>>5891934
Monero gonna have the first open source hardware wallet. It supposedly going to be super cheap too. Like $20

>>5891883
well, zero-knowledge proofs came completely outside of monero, and it doesn't look like they have any answer for it. now we all know zk-snarks in zcash and its forks are complete shit, but the point is this is the kind of tech that will cause issues for monero's longevity.

i just thnk monero has a very difficult uphill battle, because they have to try and fix scalability while also being nimble enough to implement what could about to a complete re-think of how their blockchain works, and i dont think they have the manpower for that.

>>5891856
I'll also say the dev community for Monero is one of the best.

>>5891886
Monero is only ~1/3 of my total stack so it's not TOO bad. He has literally no money and no chance at money so I'm gonna give him a shot at it.

Hopefully he does well, or better than me even, and pays it back. If not, whatever, I tried.

>>5892000
is that the same one they crowdfunded? some guy got a few hundred xmr and all he could manage was putting out some monero-only bare-board piece of h/w?

monero is already going to come to ledger soon, and probably trezor not long after. i would be skeptical of any non secure-hardware based hardware wallets though, unless you have the capability to manufacture your own from trusted component suppliers.

>>5888067
>coin that has public richlist is private
ROFL

>>5891302
>you're so obviously incredibly emotionally attached to monero
He's not you are a dumb fuck who just does not see the big picture, PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE SWITCHING FUCKING COINS. They gave 0 shits if it is better tech or not they will only and ONLY switch if it gives them anew huge advantage. BTC was the first and still a great example problem is that is not anonymous and a lot of the community will never want it to be because they want a public ledger. So what is left is for another coin to fulfill that function, say hello to XMR. As long as MRL keeps adding new tech to the coin that is:
- Well tested
- Has hardware wallet support
- Has big generous donators
- Believes in libertain values
People HAVE EXACTLY 0 reason to switch over to something else. People switch from fiat because it has shitty inflation exponential inflation they will switch from BTC because everybody knows what you have and knows what you buy. Until the next big thing is here XMR will keep growing bigger and bigger.

And as long as the XMR devs listen to changes people want people have no reason to switch. Again you are dumb as fuck.

>>5892052
not like $800 is a lot of money, but for someone who has literally nothing i'd give him less to start with, even if you intend to give it all to him anyway. if he has no money he's going to have to learn discipline with money, especially in insane markets like crypto.

a third of my blockfolio is monero. I continue to accumulate, trying to get 100 (at 75 right now) but i keep jumping on these random shitcoins

>>5892024
Monero is already looking into Zero knowledge trustless setups dumb fuck.

>>5892037
Monero community in general is the only One that doesnt give me cancer
>>5892128
that is exactly what he was paid to do. I would rather buy an cheap open source hw wallet from the monero community than some hw wallet company. Im a monero maximalist though

All the fags complaining about muh smart contracts are going to shit dicks when Enigma secret contracts come out and can do things like escrow with Monero coins as the monetary basis of the transaction.

Monero is the best

>>5892242
I may rethink the amount, not sure. But too little is too hard to make gains off of. I guess I could always give him a small amount now and let him burn himself a few times then give him more when he's learned.

But yeah, it's not a lot of money, but it'd be a big deal for him.

>>5892128
>Trusting Ledger

I would like to add that monero-tan is the best cryptowaifu

>>5892171
how exactly am i not looking at the big picture when you are obsessed with a single coin ignoring the developments in the world around you? you are emotionally invested, and have a serious case of tunnel vision when it comes to the tech, and market.

there's absolutely no evidence that people don't like switching coins, on the contrary, a new privacy coin with new tech will get an incredibly amount of buzz if it's launched in a mostly fair way like monero was. everyone is looking for the "next thing", and its that mindset that allows for the insane market we have.

you can't honestly think that monero is going to be the ultimate privacy coin, by that logic everyone would be using bitcoin. by your logic, nobody would have switched from bitcoin in the first place.

I have 3 BTC that are my long term, "low risk" (as much as can be in the crypto world) portion of my portfolio.

Since ELIX started mooning a few weeks ago it's gone down to only about 30% of my portfolio (down from about 60%).

I've been considering flipping all my BTC to XMR for a while now. Somebody convince me.

>>5892370
>that is exactly what he was paid to do. I would rather buy an cheap open source hw wallet from the monero community than some hw wallet company. Im a monero maximalist though
Is ledger seriously not open source lol? People buy this?

>>5892288
>already looking
totally missed the point there

>>5892370
the problem with non-secure hardware is there's no chain of trust, so you can't guarantee that nobody has tampered with it at the hardware level, regardless of the software you run on top of it. open source h/w is only secure if you actually source and built it yourself. buying a full package defeats the entire purpose of it.

On the "Hype" tip. Monero has been getting blasted in the press lately as the "Criminals Coin", which is very similar to circa 2013 BTC coverage. I actually see it as a good thing because it means institutions are worried about some known/unknown/unknown unknown momentum it has.

>>5892515
it is secure except for the secure element, which are impossible to open source due to the legacy way the manufacturers operate. but there are ways you can mathematically prove they operate as intended.

but the main benefit is that if someone steals it, you have a chance to move your coins. if someone steals your trezor or some other non-secure h/w wallet, your keys are as good as stolen effective immediately.

>>5892763
>if someone steals your trezor

Wait what? I thought trezor was the same as ledger i.e. if it was stolen your coins are still safe? Are you telling me this is the case with trezor but not with ledger?

Glad I have a ledger nano s then

>>5892684
the same thing happened with bitcoin, and look at where it is now. the only real harm is that places like coinbase/gemini may actually not be able to legally offer it due to their compliance requirements (tracking coins through X steps before every deposit, and after every withdrawal). but only speculators would be bothered by that, and i'd recommend against long term speculation on monero to begin with.

>>5892763
>>5892811
>buy hardware wallet
>coins now 100x easier to steal

>>5892811
it's a generic chip, so the keys can be extracted easily compared to a secure-chip which is a minefield and very expensive to try and extract data from.

neither of them are perfect, and they'll both cause the average thief to give up, but i'd rather be given the time to move coins than it be too late before i realize.

not to mention the trezor comes welded closed, so you cant even inspect the board for tampering, that should tell you all you need to know about the security model trezor uses.

>>5890760
I want my easy 10xs!!!!!

>>5892628
I would still consider it if a Established member of the community sourced and assembled the hardware. do you know difficult it would be to put one together yourself? I owned a trezor for bitcoin but abandoned it when I found xmr. Paper walletS have worked pretty well for me. Especially the cold signing

Having open solution (both in software and hardware) is always better than closed one.

>>5892882
i doubt it, but there are better ways, but they all require you buying generic hardware then ripping out networking/etc to isolate it.

it would have been better if we happened to already have a general purpose secure element usb-stick people could already by, and just flash one of many different hardware-wallet-like software onto it, but apart from credit cards the average person has never had a need for that kind of h/w before.

>>5893042
honestly, not that difficult, not that i would bother myself, but things have gotten a lot easier.

i would just be incredibly cautious of any independent h/w wallet that you haven't assembled yourself, especially if the person behind it is pseudonymous in any way.

>>5887173
verge taking over its market cap

>>5893093
if we had the opportunity to have a fully open and secure h/w wallet i would agree, but currently anything that doesn't go through the same trust-chain credit cards do is open to backdooring at every step.

>>5893286
verge is not a privacy coin

Any devs wanna help me modify the reward system to something that will further appeal to normies and release as a new shitcoin

>>5893315
lol. try again.

>>5893495
make one that just spits out a new coin to every address every day and call it UBInero. they'll eat that shit up.

>>5893246
Honestly I cbf with hw wallets at all and just use good software ones for all my coins lol. Signing transactions for watch wallets is pretty flawless too if you wanna be autistic.

>>5893594
if your house had glass walls, but you wore a bag over your head indoors, would you consider yourself to have privacy?

>>5893610
for most normal people a phone wallet is more security than they'll ever need, as long as they dont jailbreak on ios, or install any games or non mainstream apps on android.

>>5893663
is that some sort of shitty analogy?

>>5893713
I would not ever put a wallet on ios or android tbqh, I've developed for both platforms and they are rotten from the core. I would probably get some UMPC instead if you need portable hot wallet.

>>5892489
>you are emotionally invested
I assure you I am not, I am constantly looking for better coins new tech and good applications at the moment there is literally nothing better then XRM and at this development pace others will lag lightyears behind.

>there's absolutely no evidence that people don't like switching coins
People already hate the idea of switching from fiat to "funny internet money"

>you can't honestly think that monero is going to be the ultimate privacy coin
it is brainlet, also BTC never adapts because of infighting there never been a contentious hardfork with XMR. Not even one.

>nobody would have switched from bitcoin in the first place.
Bitcoin is not private and has never been DYOR.

>>5893792
You could try using your brain a little:
>Public blockchain
>1 developer
>Missed deadline for the actual "privacy" feature for who knows how many times?
>Filled with P&Ds and burns

>>5893800
ios is better than putting it on a computer running windows/osx/and probably linux with a gui. android is probably equally as bad as putting it on windows but its harder to install malware than windows so it's still better for normal users.

>>5893792
if you can still see/trace everything that matters, the illusion of privacy makes a coin like verge more insecure than a coin like bitcoin.

>>5893878
holy shit you don't even understand monero itself, i give up.

>>5892850
Another dumb fuck that forgot what made BTC so expensive in the first place. Also you are wrong, Kraken is compliant and allows you to buy and sell XMR. You just need enhanced verification. GDAX and coinbase are the same, it matters 0 shits if XMR is anonymous or not since you need to verify yourself before you can even use coinbase.

>>5889213
Only coin that would survive a government ban. Would thrive, sucking up the market cap of every shitcoin

>>5894012
stop replying to me dude, i'm not interesting in trying to argue with the cheerleaders

>>5894096
every coin would survive a gov ban that was actually decentralized, i.e. not xrp. monero does nothing special against situations like that, the gov can't stop you transfering bitcoin or selling/buying it for cash any more than they can with xmr.

>>5893940
iOS/Android/OSX/WIN are fine if you are fine with potentially losing your coins. Which is often ok if you store small amounts in that wallet. But if you need to carry lots around in hot wallet, realistic option would be using a UMPC with open OS and strictly chosen software that will be run on it. But then again, I don't see why you would need to carry around all your coins.

>>5894265
there's almost no situation when you would want to use a UMPC, you either want an older piece of tech that is easier to reason about (disconnecting networking physically, removing port access) or something you source and build yourself, like open source dev hardware (rpi, etc).

>>5894007
It seems you do not understand Monero brainlet:
1. BTC is not private: sender, receiver, amount and fee are known
2. XMR is: sender, receiver, amount are encrypted and fees are fixed in tiers.

BTC cannot and will not change. It is open ledger and useful to track institutions that might go rogue and corrupt like govs. Also easy to verify no shady shit is going on.The flaw is that people know your money if they know your address also known all your transactions and you cannot move the money without people knowing.

This is bad because:
- 0 fungability, Drug related BTC are worth less (Yes the FBI tracks these, check for yourself)
- 0 negotiaton power for companies since their wealth is know
- Kidnappings of random people since their wealth is publicy available, has happened a lot before


Again YOU, YOU ARE THE IGNORANT FAGGOT that does not release BTC cannot be used as a currency. Fungability being the main issue. You have 0 clue if that dollar in your hands was used to buy crack with and you will never know. But please keep spouting coping bullshit since you obviously know jack shit about what the issues with BTC are and why XMR is lightyears ahead.

>>5894373
Even if you build it yourself and it's portable, it's a UMPC.

>>5893917
>1 developer
you can take 20 seconds and check out the github and the travis ci to verify that is bullshit

>>5894373
You keep spreading FUD and random bullshit with 0 knowledge about the topic literally fucking kill yourself faggot. No I will not stop with breaking down your dumb as shit arguments when you simply don't know what you are talking about. Fucking normalfag fuck back off to Facebook, the way you talk already gives it away acting like a smug faggot while lacking basic knowledge about the topics at hand. Typical normalfag behavior.

>>5894476
The other "developers" don't develop core at all. What you look at is some web devs, pajeet mobile developer. If you want to see even more bad things about verge, just browse the commit history.

>>5894553
Sell your XMR and leave this thread

>>5894553
you literally are just a monero fanboy, all of your arguments are emotional, not technical. i bat i even own more xmr than you do, how does that make you feel?

>>5894445
sure, if that's what you mean by UMPC, but most actual UMPC devices have very compact boards with chips that do multiple things, so its difficult if not impossible to securely disable networking at a hardware level. that's all my point was anyway.

>>5894592
https://github.com/vergecurrency/VERGE/commits/master

what about it?

>>5894757
Hot wallet implies it's online though, or at least some way syncing the blockchain. Unless you mean hardware toggleable network.

This whole discussion is silly anyways, as storing millions in single wallet is single point of failure anyways. For low amounts literally the most unsecure device would be fine.

At least in Monero threads people actually know what they're talking about and discuss technical details.

>>5887173
it's got a fuckin linux nerd GUI and is apparently a speculative treasure for blackmarket cryptotraders seeking a future alternate to bitcoin and that's good enough to make up 15% of my portfolio

>>5894895
monero-wallet-cli is the best wallet. No competition

>>5894873
i must have missed that, if it has to be network connected then you've already lost the battle, that's why i like the security model of h/w wallets that allow signing of inputs and nothing else. there isn't any reason why you couldn't replicate that on a UMPC.

>>5894849
>https://github.com/vergecurrency/VERGE/commits/master

People commiting to code doesn't mean they are part of the dev team, you dense motherfucker

>>5895033
the fact that it doesn't support readline ctrl-a ctrl-e, etc commands is a complete pain in the ass though.

>>5895033
This.

>>5895132
>it doesn't support readline
Have they mentioned changing this at all?

>>5895033
thanks frog-friendo, your head sure is flat but your dubs check out

>>5895166
it was mentioned in the changelog for 0.11 i thought, but it still doesn't work.

>>5895222
Ah that sucks, at least it's on the radar though. I imagine it'll work soon.

Monero is going to a top3-5 coin by EOY 2018.

It's got the tech and the development team for it. With 50% of Kovri milestones reached, it's going to be done by Q4 2018/Q1 2019 at latest. Add that to Ledger support, bulletproofs and all the other shit in development and you have a case of slow realization that this is one of crypto top dogs that a lot of normies have been ignoring.

>>5894849
Look at the commit messages, and the changes inside. It's all looking like a disaster waiting to happen.
>Commit messages do not have any basic info regarding the change or why it was made
>Code styled whatever
>Lots of unrelevant changes per commit
>Weird additions which are then reverted soon after
>Code looks like it's just copied somewhere else

>>5895081
Yep, once you are unconnected, the threat surface is vastly reduced of course, as untrusted code execution is the major threat.

>>5895033
cli is fucking comfy.
Setting up a RPC is a bit difficult, but rewarding, especially getting near instant online confirmations for customers with a QR.
Anyone who says Monero is wanting for something on a technical specification level is high as fuck.
Seventeen Hundred Transactions per second.

>>5895179
her dubs sure as fuck check out

>>5895281
the biggest red flag is that its just yet another clone of the bitcoin codebase.

>>5895316
The client<->server model in monero actually makes it quite easy to develop your own payment services.

>>5895281
Don't even bother. You can't convince a retard how to think.

>>5895276
Apple needs to pull its head out and accept the ios mymonero app already. Apparently it has been pending for over a month. Having multiple apps on both phone ecosystems is important for teaching normies about xmr. Monerujo has been pretty nice on android doe

>>5895768
a month isnt that unusual for any kind of wallet app, unless monero isn't yet one of the "approved" coins that can go in the ios store.

>>5893286

>>5890125
>>>
>Anonymous (ID: 3HJHnXfQ) 01/05/18(Fri)07:06:52 No.5889914▶
> XMR is more of a coin that you would actually use and support rather than look for massive gains in imo, if any coin succeeds i hope it will be this one.

XMR is allready exploring sidechains etc to utilise elements of other coins that are superior to core xmr.

>>5896152
if second layers with better privacy are acceptable on monero, then it stands that the trend would be towards privacy layers on coins like bitcoin and ethereum, which isn't very bullish for monero. either your base layer is solid, or it doesnt matter.

>>5892373
Did you say enigma and Monero in same sentence...low key might get some enigma. Big if true.

>>5896264
The sidechains compliment the main chain. In btc/eth case, even if you did transactions on side-chain, your main chain would still be left open. The response for LN and Mimblewimble has been very open though, if they can be used with XMR there is no reason to not allow using them, and see where it goes then.

>>5895281
>>>5895081
The "stealth" code of XVG is backport code of a 2017 stealth addresses implementation of shadowcoin

>>5887941
>you dont want that guy going online and checking your wallet balance
For this factor alone I don't understand why people aren't adapting to privacy tech. Unless you're mixing all your coins, which is expensive they can link everything to you. "Oh shit this guy has a million dollars, time to rob him!"

Monero isn't at all about criminal activity, is simply about security.

>>5896616
It's also about control. Control in cryptocurrencies is a major thing, and privacy features in XMR improve it even more.

>>5896468
if the sidechain add no privacy and are just technical, like lightning on bitcoin, or some DAG based second layer, sure. but monero's only differentiating factor is base layer privacy, and if that base layer weakens to the point where they feel they need second layers on top to enhance it, i feel like it's become obsolete at it's core purpose.

>>5889001
I think that's what Enigma is going after. Right now the price is stupid high because of hype. I think the project could have a future, but as for right now I think its literally just a ERC20 token.

>>5896616
absolutely, i never pay for anything via any other currency as a simple rule. the problem is if you can get this same effect via some layer on a public blockchain it weakens monero's value proposition. so far there isn't any working system that does it well, but it seems to be a very high priority feature in almost every "major" project.

Nowhere. It looks too much like the NeoGaf logo and no one wants to be associated with a sex offender.

>>5889001
ethereum, which already has sk-proofs and built in ring signatures.

>>5896737
if it's just a clone of ethereum with features tacked on i don't see it going anywhere

>>5890664
Better and faster implemtnation of features is worth something too

>>5896710
Even if you transfer in side chain, the main chain has to process bulk of it eventually, and this relies on the features of main chain. On side chains that allow direct channels, it's possible to do transactions even more privately of course. This is why I say side chain compliments the main chain. The main chain is still important, but it's still very unsure how things develop with side chains. If nobody or few only run full node (aka use the main chain) then the whole coin is at risk.

>>5890407
>VEN
Like the project, but anon you're buying at the top of some retard strength hype. Hype that was only compounded by Binance entering all those who traded >1BTC volume in or out of VEN the past week into a drawing to win a fucking car.

If you want supply chain solutions that are cheap right now, check out Walton.

>>5896878
if you're referring to enigma, i dont see how they could implement faster builtins for those features that aren't easily added in the next ethereum update, because that's how they got zk-snarks, etc in the first place.

>>5890524
Pretty sure Specter is a DAG (or uses it) and so is hashgraph. Idk of any DAGs that don't have some form of centralization.

>>5896834
Low energy FUD

>>5896898
thats a different problem though, i'm mostly talking about privacy, because monero's proposition is privacy built-in at the base layer, and if monero had a similar system for enabling payments with some non-ring signature tech which was more secure it would also have the same problem.

>>5897008
To put it short, even if there was private side chain, it would be even more private on top of monero, because the main chain is private as well.

>>5897168
obviously, but it still shows the shortcomings of a base-layer privacy model when you can't easily upgrade the base layer.

I just hope that monero will always be affordable to transact with onchain with mimble wimble and snarks being optional sidechains with improved privacy. Not a fan of bitcoin pushing all users to LN

>>5893663
kek, the absolute state of vergins

>>5889001
Particl (part). In process of developing a fully decentralized anonymous marketplace with ring signatures and confidential transactions. Atomic swaps. I believe smart contracts too.

>>5897300
The additional privacy of off/side-chains would basically come from obfuscation. Detailed information what happened on the shortlived off/side-chain can't be figured out even if you manage to see the details of the initial transaction on the main chain. Main chain by nature can't provide that.

>>5896854
Yeah, so it is just massive hype. Because I think Ethereum has plans for privacy anyway. However Enigma is suppose to work with other blockchains or some shit.

>>5896814
I could see that happening. I think privacy is in BCH's roadmap. Will it surpass base layer privacy though? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

>>5897459
LN is actually fine, but yes in BTC's case they are forcing users into it because how the fuck else are you going to transact on that network and still have any money left?

Bampin this comfy thread

>>5897459
There is some random interview with Spagni where he sais it should be reasonable but not cheap. 10 - 30c prob.And use LN / MibleWimble for really small transactions like coffee / snacks.

>>5888067
>public blockchain
>privacy
pick one

>>5899143
Sounds like the ideal crypto future to me until something better comes along. comfy. Now just to wait for the upcoming shitcoin purge. Way too many coins ahead of xmr on cmc

>>5894700
My arguments are all rational, you just post some snarky reply without refuting any of them. Arguing with you feels like playing chess with a pigeon, you can do the best moves. But at the end of the day the pigeon will just knock the pieces aside, shit all over the board and strut around like its triumphant. Then again you are just baiting at this point. I have unknown amount of Monero fyi.

There is no coin coming with better tech, 90% off all new coins are tokens on Ethereum or NEO or some clone of BTC with some small adjustments. I doubt most people can even comprehend the amount of work that goes into such a large project.

>>5899415
Agreed, loads of coins without tech and nothing but hype to back it up. I have nothing to fear for XMR but all these shitcoins need to go back to the pit they came from. Some good JUST in marketcrash might flush the normies out that try to buy "the next BTC :), so cheap bro!"

>>5897459
if it gets more popular i don't see how it could be, there are fundamental limits you can't ignore in blockchain based applications. at some point your only option is to either turn yourself into a centralized payment processor or build a layer on top to offload as many transient transactions as possible.

>>5888067
*inhales deeply*

....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>5894169
> the gov can't stop you transfering bitcoin or selling/buying it for cash any more than they can with xmr

One is a public chain and another is private. the gov, knowing your wallet address for btc, knows exactly how much to seize and where. This is not true for monero.

>>5899970
What about xmrs adaptive blocksize? hopefully that along with sidechains will take enough strain off of the main chain.

>>5900145
they don't know your address, and all you have to do is send it to another address and there's absolutely no way to prove that you still have control over it. that example is a terrible one to highlight the reasons why monero exists.

>>5900186
that's not scalability but capacity. you can push capacity as high as you want within technical limits, but that just makes it harder to run a node and keep the network decentralized. for monero it is absolutely critical than users run their own nodes because even running the client over a remote daemon over something like tor doesn't guarantee safe transactions. scalability is a bigger problem for monero than bitcoin.

>>5894592
i like how the number of developers is the only thing you attempted to refute.

does this imply you acknowledge that verge has a public blockchain and is filled with P&D broken promises?

>>5892439
i beg your pardon

>>5900186
Side chains are only a temporary solution, when new advances are made in distributed ledgers Monero needs to be on top of it and adopt it. Raiblocks is a good example of this since it solves the blockchain space issues. Each user has their own blockchain which is tiny, great for distributed systems. Torrents for example are popular because everything is decided into small pieces and shared. Having to download the entire ledger is dumb af. And remote nodes are bad or security / decentralisation.

we need something similar to raiblocks but private, with fees (against spam attacks) and a better fucking name, merchants that accept it

>>5900328
>absolutely no way to prove that you still have control over it.
are you fucking kidding me anon?

what happens when you move your coins from coinbase to the black market and try to cash out? I mean, what you say is technically true if you obtain bitcoin anonymously (and i mean truly anonymously, not like hurr durr i installed TOR) and then cash out anonymously.

shit man, why am i even arguing with you? completely irrational. enjoy your richlists.

>>5900328
>they don't know your address, and all you have to do is send it to another address and there's absolutely no way to prove that you still have control over it.

That's not how blockchain analysis work dipshit.

>>5900572
The problem is that the cryptography is not there yet for this to materialise.

You pajeets have no idea how complicated it is to have peer reviewed and 100% attack proof protocols. They take YEARS to develop and test.

>>5888067
knees weak bags are heavy

>>5900572
raiblocks does have cool tech. feels nice sending money instantly and free. the main problem I have with DAG projects is coin distribution, which is critical for sound money. Right now they are basically all ICOs, if i am not mistaken.

>>5891647
hi is me ur frend

>>5900600
you keep moving the goalposts and making up these scenarios that have nothing to do with public blockchains.

public blockchains let you infer connections between addresses, that's it. the gov doesnt know my addresses, and it's completely possible to use bitcoin without any gov knowing your addresses. simple as that.

>>5900626
are you serious? a government can prove an address is under your control if it's known to be your address. they can absolutely not prove that an address you send coins to is under your control. just think for a second.

>>5900898

You have no clue what you on about.

>>5900670
I think XMR has the most potential right but it will need to evolve long term

>>5901193
it seems you don't know the difference between traceability and deniability, which is pretty disappointing for someone interested in monero. i assume you're just like all the others trying to get rich.

>>5892514
what was btc created for? cp and drugs. now people realize that isn't useful for that. NEVER BET AGAINST DRUGS

>>5900898
>they can absolutely not prove that an address you send coins to is under your control.
True, but those bitcoins will be marked the only way to get rid of them is to sell them through local bitcoins. But if that guy uses it to buy something the cops can ask the salesman who bought the thing and ask that person who sold him those BTC. Once your BTC is marked you are fucked. Which makes BTC non fungible.

>>5901477
Tone down your autism, then realize subpoenas and contempt of court charges can hold you indefinitely.

>No, your honor, I don't know how or why my entire balance went from my wallet to this conveniently created address used for nothing else ever.

>>5901745
you can throw coins in a mixer and get new outputs if you want, and there are trustless ways to do this today on bitcoin, and it's just doing the same thing monero is doing, including the limited set of output sizes. it's not perfect, (which is why CT was added to monero) but it's the core of what monero is doing. it's privacy isn't magic.

the issue here is people clearly not understanding the differences between fungibility and privacy. you need privacy for fungibility, but you can operate just find without fungibility when its only the government who is after you, it's what everyone had to do when bitcoin was new.

>>5901874
if that's what you thought i meant then you definitely need to tone yours down. you can get pre-CT level privacy in bitcoin today, it's just mixing afterall.

>>5887173

hm XMR is stable but no big gains

I love Monero threads because the discussion is almost every time about technical issues and serious discussion.
Everyone other coin even Eth and Btc is always muh moon. When Lambo and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA threads.
Monero consistently delivers great threads. My most comfy hold

>>5896814
>>5898082
Compared to "privacy layers" on other coins, XMR will likely remain a superior option for those who are really focused on privacy -- simply because when privacy is optional, it causes those transactions to stick out like a sore thumb, and reduces overall security

>>5887173
Here's the only answer worth a damn in this thread:

Look at the emission curve

>>5902660
What about it, explain to brainlet pls

>>5900714
>mom's vergetti

>>5902013
That does not work anymore because of the insane BTC fees, and those mixing servers only provide you with other already marked bitcoins which can only be used on local bitcoins. Since exchanges will not accept them just like they do not accept BTC coming from gambling sites. Now imagine local bit coiner buyers also having such a program, now they will not want your tainted BTC anymore. Those BTC will remain tainted forever. In addition cops will KNOW you send them to a mixing server. A bunch of these have already shut down or are honeypots, extremely risky. Also the group using these mixing services will be a lot smaller then the general BTC user pop, which makes you an easier target to track in a group and see if then can link up the amount you sold. Why even bother with any of this crap if you can simply use XMR jeezes. XMR address BTCs flaws in convenient ways.

>>5902951
>spoon incoming

bamp

>>5902052
Also as a reply to the issue with upgrading the base layer a fork could be made with Monero Classic and Monero. it worked for ETH I do not see why it would not work for Monero, the side chains will never be as private as the base layer, they are made for speed, efficiency and small size not privacy, verifiability and persistence which is fine if you are buying small things.

>>5903969

The sidechains can be private and robust (see mimblewimble) especially when the main chain is solid (like Monero's).

I want to buy-in
what's a good entry point?

>>5904241
The main chain has issues with blockchain size just like all other cryptos anon. Unless a new tech comes out which gets implemented on XMR we will not have a solid base layer. but I guess we will see, bulletproofs should help

this coin is dogshit, buy tron and ripple bros!

>>5904585
A mimblewimble layer will support a massive decrease in transactions that need to be on the main chain that will still have pretty good privacy (better than in grin where some analysis of the block chain may be possible). In the mean time, bulletproof and the adaptive block chain size will prevent any bitcoin style total meltdown.

>>5892514
Flip one. Literally no reason to all in.

>>5904390
wait for current drop to end. honestly probably best bet is just to buy when you wake up tomorrow. it'll be about the same price today but would have basically bottomed out. Am about to buy 10 monero tomorrow myself.