/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>58193567
Do homecucks really?

>>58193567
thanks blackcock

>>58193567
I pay more than that and I'm still happy because I never want to be a rentcuck again. kys

Sounds like american problems

>>58193567
That's fucking cheap compared to renting

>>58193567
i pay 200 pound sterling a year for home insurance , you burgers are getting rinsed

>>58193567
500k over thirty years is more like $300k with inflation
pretty retarded way to express the cost of ownership.
my mortgage payment keeps going down in real terms every year while rents keep increasing.
in fact, taxes would be a lot more in the example because those definitely go up, especially if you are adding equity and value to your property. The more you make the more they tax.

>>58193567
all of that + mortgage + profits gets paid by us rentcucks. and then homeowners sell their houses for huge profits while we are still poor. shit sucks

>>58193567
>utilities added as an expense
Is he retarded?

>>58193567
Renters pay utilities too

>>58193567
Renters pay for utilities too.

>>58193622
This

- I haven't had the need to repair anything in years because my walls are not made of cardboard like Americans.
- I haven't had the need to renovate anything because I'm not a retarded consumer like Americans.
- Renters pay for utilities too.
- I pay like $100 in property taxes because I'm not American.
- I pay like $100 in insurance because I'm not American.

Have you guys considered leaving?

>>58193695
where are you

>>58193567
>maintenance and repairs
Fair enough, but this is also factored into your rent costs.
>renovations and improvements
A freedom I can choose to exercise, or not, as a homeowner.
>utilities
You pay these in an apartment as well.
>property taxes
Also factored into your rent.
>insurance
Rent insurance is also mandatory.
>your rent costs will go up 20% every year and there's nothing you can do about it

>>58193710

Not in America. :)

>>58193721
shoo shoo pajeet

>>58193567
You understand that the cost of rent is the cost of the loan plus the cost of all of the things you mentioned plus tip right?
You think the landlord eats that cost?
You think they don't charge you a premium for their profit?
Read a book.

>>58193636
>>58193642
>>58193650
>>58193695
>>58193713

Utilities are often included with rent or partially subsidized by the landlord (i.e. landlord pays trash)

>>58193695
Rent free.

>>58193567
>Compared to 1.5k rent
>18k per year
>540k in 30 years
Ok retard

>>58193567
Homesissies how do we respond?

>>58193759
CARLOS!

>>58193567
American taxation is basically a legal rape

>>58193788
And owning nothing at the end of it all.

>>58193801
All of those costs are part of your rent.

>>58193567
Homes are not for poors, true

>>58193848
t. European that's paying 40% of their shit income in taxes as a single earer but at least you have "free" healthcare that you never use

The difference is that you spend roughly the same amount on rent but instead of going towards the wellbeing of your home it goes into Mr. Shekelsteins pockets. I refuse to buy into the "homeowning isn't worth it" psiop.

This was my reply to >>>58191958 but it got deleted as I was writing:
Two words (well 4, technically): HE. LOC.

>Pretty much guaranteed (unless your house is a literal burnt-down shack, and even then that might still qualify for something if in the right area, i.e., Commifornia)
>no credit, employment, other Jew "checks"
>Interest rate wayyyy below anything else available, i.e credit cards, personal loans, etc.
>No fees whatsoever other than the origination fee at the beginning
>Money is deposited straight to your checking account as cash the same day
>Money can be used for whatever you want whenever you want for however much you want.
>If you for some reason can't or simply don't want to pay it back, just walk away and let the bank take the house, pretty much no questions asked. Your Jew Good Boi report won't even be impacted
While everything you said is absolutely true, what I just described is what makes it all worth it. Houses will literally continue to only go up for the rest of eternity, never down. LTV issues on the HELOC are pretty much nonexistent give the current landscape, so you don't even have to worry about making payments. Pretty much a perpetual money machine as of now.

>$4500/year in maintenance
Bull fucking shit. This was made by some city faggot that's never lived in a house before

>>58193804
:OMEGALUL:

>>58193632
I can't believe I share a board with such fucking retards. Do you know how the time value of money works? Because you have it inversed you dumb gorilla nigger.

>he thinks he “owns” his home in the United corporations of the ZOG

Lol, lmao.

>>58194039
The rule of thumb is 1% of the value of the home per year in maintenance. Maybe your double wide's maintenance is only half that!

>>58194039
stfu ruralfag
go milk some cows or pick carrots

Always do the opposite of what /biz/ OPs say.

But a home as soon as you can. Even if it’s stretching your budget. The mortgage is locked in, it will decrease in real dollars over time and eventually end. Plus you build equity.

Dont invest in meme stocks, in crypto, NFTs, or precious metals. Just buy VOO. Be a boring normie when it comes to money.

>>58193567
> rentoids pay for all these costs and landlord profit on top

What is it today and constant spam of rent shills? New landlords?

>>58194849
There is an organized drive to give young Americans poor financial advice and hammer a negative outlook into them.

A landlord makes profit. By definition, the renter is paying excess capital. Buy a house as soon as you can.

renting is better if you’re poor. that’s why poor people mostly rent. if you have money, maintenance isn’t a significant amount of money.

>>58193567
>guys please keep renting so that us landlords can suck your wallets dry and buy up more properties to rent out, buying a house is totally not worth it!
interesting

>>58194039
seriously
if done well new plumbing, electrical, hvac, and roof systems will last 25+ years at least more like 50 with a few odd swaps like a water heater
if all of those things work, and your drainage/gutters are keeping water from your foundation everything else is cheap aesthetic bullshit

FYI - you can get an FHA loan and get a house with only 3.5% down payment.

>>58193622
It's the equivalent of paying $1500 a month in rent..

>>58193567
I spend more than that on property taxes alone.
Stop being a whiny pour, and get back to work wagie.

>>58193567
>Nooooooooo!!! Houses should be self healing!!!! Reeeeeeeee!!!!

Kys commie scum

Saving for a down payment as a first-time homebuyer can be daunting, but there are effective strategies to help. Begin by setting a clear savings goal based on the range of homes you're interested in. It’s common to aim for 20% down to avoid private mortgage insurance (PMI), but this can vary. Consider automating a portion of your income directly into a savings account for your down payment. This makes saving a consistent and less noticeable process. Budget adjustments can accelerate your savings. Look for areas where you can cut back, like dining out, subscription services, or luxury items. Redirect these funds to your down payment savings. Additionally, consider additional income sources, like a part-time job, freelancing, or selling unused items.The Federal Housing Administration (FHA) loan can be a great option for first-time buyers. FHA loans are government-backed mortgages that require lower down payments and are more lenient on credit scores compared to conventional loans. With an FHA loan, the down payment can be as low as 3.5% if your credit score is 580 or higher. This can make homeownership more accessible if saving up a larger down payment is challenging.To take advantage of an FHA loan, you’ll need to meet certain criteria. Besides the credit score requirements, the property you're buying must meet specific safety and security standards and be your primary residence. It’s also important to budget for additional costs like the upfront mortgage insurance premium and the ongoing mortgage insurance premiums that are typical with FHA loans.Remember that while FHA loans make it easier to buy a home with a smaller down payment, it’s crucial to ensure that the monthly mortgage payments, including mortgage insurance and other homeownership costs, are manageable within your budget. Consulting with a mortgage advisor can help you understand whether an FHA loan is the best fit for your financial situation and how it compares to other mortgage options.

b8 but I'll bite, that's only 17958/year or 1,496.5/month for an entire house. That's including the retarded utilities expense rentcucks pay anyway. Shill harder, Blackcock

>>58193695
kek based

>>58193567
> he think repairs and maintenance aren’t indirectly charged to renters

Here's a secret landkikes don't want you to know about. If you want to move, you can sell the house even if it has a mortgage on it, and use the proceeds to pay off the mortgage while pocketing what's left over to put towards a new place. Whereas if you're a renting, you're stuck waiting out the term of the lease or having to pay whatever months are left on the lease so you're literally stuck in place way more as a rentserf.

The average rent is ~$1700. Over the same timeframe from his hyperbole that events out to $620k. But let's not kid ourselves, that rent won't stay the same over the 30 years. So it's more like ~$900k

>>58193567
lmao euro here, my house is one hundred years old and i dont have to spend and money on it

>>58194796
This is correct actually. I buy $spy and $tqqq and pay into my 401k while paying down my mortgage at 4.5% interest (free money). Net worth 500k. It's just that easy.

>>58195519
likewise - I am wondering why the fuck Americans spend so much in "maintenance". Do they flood or set fire to their homes every year or what?

>>58195571
>making generalized stereotypes of an entire country based on an unsourced post on 4chan
American housing is orders of magnitude better than European housing. I’ve lived in both.

>>58195587
if you can punch a hole through your wall, your house is shit, end of story

>>58193947
It's all just rentcuck sour grapes cope.

>>58194755
My house is 4,000 sqft, 5 bed, 2 bath and I didn't spend a dime.in maintenance for the first two years.

This year I replaced the piss trap in the bathroom sink because it was leaking. Ooh, spend like $5 on a piss trap.

I don't even use half my house. I use the upper level rooms as storage.

>>58195571
Because we live in matchstick houses designed around planned obsolescence.
Our roofs have to be replaced every 15 years, our exterior walls repainted every 5 years, and the house itself will need to be demolished after 50 years on average.

>>58195519
>>58195571
this is retard levels blackrock propaganda
even with our shitty construction based on an excess of (once) cheaply available materials and excessive use of fasteners the "maintenance" and "renovations" estimates ridiculously high, of course this could be based on the same retards who take a military bonus and buy a loaded Camero at %15 apr who may be doing the same with new cabinets, bathroom renovations, etc, but even then that's absurd
t. family with 7 rental properties, yeah I'm a parasite I don't care, it's better than some megacorp like Greystone raising your rent every 6 months and keeping you on hold for 4 hours while your house burns down

>>58193567
plus you dont actually own your home, you are just renting from the bank. and even if you have paid off your mortgage, your government can take your home from you when ever it wants

>>58195631
I don't think you're lying, but as >>58195628 said, your houses in the US are essentially made of matchsticks and glue, built to last just enough for you to finish paying off your mortgage and then buying another one or having to do a full redecoration. Consume, consume, consume.
Also, I wouldn't consider you a parasite. It's not like you are manipulating the entire housing market so you get an exclusive say on how much each property in a given area will cost. You just have more money than the average person, but you hold absolutely no political or economical power compared to certain groups. You know the ones.

Hope you all can make it and buy proper houses you'll pass on to your great-grandkids.

>>58195625
>piss trap in the bathroom sink
.....what?

>>58195735
>he doesn't piss in the sink to save flushing costs
>never gonna make it

>>58193567
>$5362 utilities
Really?
8 * $200 = $1600 for water, sewer, and trash
12 * $50 (avg) = $600 electricity
12 * $70 (avg) = $840 gas
Total: $3040

What the fuck are people doing?

>>58195735
>He doesnt have a piss trap in the sink
Fucking normie

>>58195735
Typical rent fag, not knowing what a piss trap is.

>cost of median home right now is $4000 per month
>rent for $1000 per month

Guess which one I'm doing.

>buy house 1 year ago
>$200k deposit, $800k mortgage at 7% interest
>return on investment: -$56,000 (-28%)

>buy bitcoin 1 year ago
>$200k got you 7.14 BTC
>return on investment: +$300,000 (+150%)

Homeowners will defend this

What bullshit

My pensioner grandparents are in their 90s and they haven't spent a single cent on "maintenance" in like 4-5 decades.

This is some fud property investors spread to convince people to rent lol

>>58195913

Bro housing is the most unaffordable it has ever been in history. There's no need to spread fud 95% are priced out of median home entirely.

Go back to bed grandpa.

>>58195868
>Buy house 4 years ago
>20k down, 250,000 mortgage
>return on investment: +146,000
Just sold it last month, seethe and dilate

>>58195969

>try to buy new place
>double monthly payment now

>>58195999
Jokes on you, I inherited a house

>>58193567
2 bedroom rental in Seattle : 2,836$ a month
34,032$ per year
1,020,960$ over 30 years, and you still have to pay for gas, food, and save for a retirement.
Owning would very obviously be cheaper than renting in my case. Of course it varies on a case to case basis.

>>58195089
did he stutter?
it's 1800 per month where I live for a single room rental.

>>58193584
No they don't really. The renovations and improvements include house flippers.

>>58195294
You know a ChatGPT answer just from the first phrase.

>>58193567
>renting is so much better!!!
Okay. Then I'll rent my house out to myself.

>>58196009
>I inherited a house
My dad sold his house and gave his money to his mistress after my mom died.

>>58193567
And you're paying a lot more than that renting an apartment here.

>>58196095
Marry his mistress and get half.
It's the obvious power play here.

>>58196095
Sucks to suck. Such is life when your parents spend +50 years inhaling leaded gasoline exhaust.

>>58193567
2904 on property taxes? Wtf that's too cheap.

>>58196128
She's 65 and looks kind of manly, like Jamie Lee Curtis.
>>58196129
His father left him nothing, so it was expected.

>>58196028
The 1500 is on top of the mortgage

>>58195089
Alot of places in the US have nothing available at $1500 a month

>>58193721
So, a third world shithole then. Yeah, not gonna bite on that.

>>58196095
Your dad was a boomer wasnt he?

>>58193567
>Home owners pay $539k over 30 years and get a free house
>Rentcucks pay more than $539k over 30 years and get nothing
Uh.. is OPs image meant to make me not want to be a homeowner? Because its doing the exact opposite kek

>>58196160
kek at the homebaggie....are you surprised he couldnt do the math on that one though?

>>58193751
>Utilities are often included with rent or partially subsidized by the landlord (i.e. landlord pays trash)
I wish that were true, every new apartment is kiked out and you're on your own for that stuff now

>>58193751
Landlord doesn't pay shit.

If it's a cost, it's factored into the rent.

>>58193567
If my landlord actually spent that money I wouldn't be upset by the scam of living in a house split down the middle and rented out to 2 people.

Not everyone pays up.

>>58193584

Utilities are accurate
property taxes are actually higher for most places
home owners insurance is right depending on the area.
Renovations is absurd. No one does that amount each year.

>>58196817
Mine implemented maintenance fees and general cleaning fees. 50 dollars extra in fees that don’t actually exist

>>58193567
>Uh oh it looks like your roof tiles are fading. You see we are the official HOA and we are REQUIRING you to replace it. Don't worry I have a friend who will do it for 50k, he will come by tomorrow. Remember this is a community and we all have to do our part!

>>58197392
>Buying a house in a HOA
What are you, some kind of shabbos goy?

>>58193567
And renters pay that much while owning nothing.

Bought my house for 10k in the crash, put 15k into it and have lived there for 14 years. It's now worth 250k and I'm thinking of putting 10,000 more into it to redo the bathroom and floors. That doesn't come even close to that retarded estimate. Go fuck yourself Blackrock shill

When you pay $1500 a month in rent, about $1300 of that goes directly to expenses of maintaining the property.

It's common for only 10% of the rent to be profit for the landlord. For smaller landlords who don't have economies of scale, it's even common for 100% of the rent to go towards expenses. The landlord only makes a profit when the house appreciates and they sell later on.

So the rentcucks who think "I will buy a house and save money" might be saving 10% compared to renting. But not much.

Rentcucks also don't think of what actual long-term maintenance costs per month. For example, if you pay $7500 for a new air conditioner once every 12 years (expected life), that's $52 per month FOREVER just to fund owning an air conditioner. Before the electric bill is paid.

>>58193567
Landlords just put most of those costs as extra for rentoids

>>58193567
Even if ALL of these were things that a renter would not pay - which frankly, most renters are paying for the biggest one on the list and at least part of "maintenance and repairs" and "renovations and improvements", even with mortgage you still only get to like a 5-6% total home cost when average appreciation is about 15% right now. So you make 10% on your home total price in equity annually, whereas renting maybe you are saving the 5-6% and then would need to double to that money within the year to keep up with simply owning the home.

On top of that, the home owner's overall costs actually deflate over time with inflation as mortgage costs go down, whereas renter costs will inflate significantly over that 30 year period.

A renter over the same 30 year period will likely pay millions of dollars more than that $500k, so the home owner ultimately also gets to re-invest a much larger amount of capital.

This guy essentially did build an argument for home ownership. Easy to defend.

Landleeching is not profitable and the rental income is just there to reduce the monthly losses while waiting for capital gains (the real purpose of owning).

It worked for the last 30 years with falling interest rates but that time might be over now.

>>58193567
This guy definitely doesn't own a home.

>>58193567
>Just let us buy all the property goyim, what are you? SOME KINDA ANTISEMITE?!????!??!

>>58194796
What the fuck is with you low iq subhumans and “equity”.
Getting a massive loan isn’t “equity”, it is a massive liability that could ruin your life at any time.
And houses only ever LOSE value, it is only the residential land that may gain value IF more people want to move towards where you live.
No wonder 2008 rekt so many people because you low iq subhumans just are that dumb.

>>58198042
Good post

>>58198260
>houses only lose value
False. Home value is explicitly tied to cost to build, and cost to build goes up with inflation. This is why buying land without a house on it is cheaper than buying land with a house on it, even a shitty house. New homes don’t really carry much of a premium at all. Typically if the roof is new enough and the house is in generally good condition and no structural issues the home itself will add considerable value to the sale of the property.

The problem with threads like these is always the same.. a bunch of 20 something’s who think they know everything but are generally inexperienced going back and forth with nothing but bullshit, and OP always wins because the point of this thread is to antagonize.

The simple fact is that owning a home has historically been far better than renting financially for the average person. That being said, most people here are not average. Investing in crypto and high risk stocks like tech have a pretty decent chance of paying off better short term, and so renting while you have a window of investment may be better ultimately than putting a down payment on a house.

It is not the monthly payments that drag you down financially as a home owner, but rather the lump sum of capital you put down up front. Could you yield 10x on that in the same time your equity has only built a 2-5x?

>>58198295
Oh you are one of those “hecking inflation” retards. My point is exactly right. No houses don’t go up in value at all. Look at all of you retards spending 100k on a “home addition” only to find out nobody is giving you a single cent more for that extra laundry room. When is a house/apartment the most expensive? When it’s newly built, from then on it only goes down in value.
Also you don’t actually “own” a home, you have a loan. The bank owns YOU. Get the facts straight. You don’t own shit, you owe the bank most of your pay check every month. You are a slave.
Most actual home OWNERS are this point in time have simply inherited them from their parents.
Becoming a mortgage slave has also NOT been “historically better”. Right now it’s some quite bad, it’s been even worse before. The only time it’s really “good” is when you’re paying like 1-2% interest, now you’re paying 7x that.

>>58193567
Condo-chad here living in a nimby area. HOA is pretty expensive but nowhere near the costs proposes in that tweet. $1600/mo principal, $200/mo interest, $400/mo HOA. To rent an equivalent apartment would be $2500/mo, and my place is appreciating at about 8%/year as well.

This dumb motherfucker doesn't know how to do his taxes kek

>>58193567
>buy a house
>keep buying it despite owning it
what am I missing here?

That's the price without the mortgage.
If a house costs 1 million, you pay ~100% of that in mortgage.
Let's say your house costs 1 million and you can sell it for 1.5 million after your mortgage is payed off. Then you've effectively paid 500,000 to the bank just for getting the house.
so that's $500,000 + $538,740 = $1,038,740
That's money out the window for living there for 30 years.
That's $2885 per month just for living in the house.
If the market is bad when you're going to sell it, the house might not even have appreciated in value. It depends on the general and local market, the infrastructure and business development, the crime rate in the area of the house location, and how well you've maintained it.
There's a lot of risk involved and a lot of things that can go wrong.

>>58193567
>literal who running their retarded mouth on twatter
>OMG MAKE A THREAD ON /BIZ/
Go be retarded somewhere else. Rent is due on Monday btw. All those bills won't pay themselves. Don't forget to tip.

>>58193584
Not usually. Rentoids do though.

better to be a homeowner than a hoe moaner

Owning a house is a liability.
The question is: Is it a bigger liability than renting a house?
The answer is: It depends. In some cases it is and in some cases it isn't. There's a lot of factors that goes into it and a lot of risk involved.

>>58198375
>hecking inflation
You cannot possibly have any understanding of the history of currency and make this argument
This isn't even midwit tier, its genuine idiot territory
There's no helping someone this adamantly wrong

>>58193567
Thats why I rent. My AGRS only gives me profits.

>>58199472
That sht gives you profits?

>>58199472
Take some memes, that sks

>>58199476
>>58199479
Tau is so good anon, AI is real. Memes are gambling

>>58193622
Renting is cheaper than buying a home in all of the 50 largest cities in the US thanks to the banking jew.
Millennials and zoomers have been priced out of living in their own country.

>>58193567
>but muh price appreciation
which means fuck all if you're selling to buy another home which has also had a similar level of price appreciation

>>58198375
I bought my home newly built and now it’s worth almost twice what I spent 6 years later. I have more equity in the home than I owe the bank, and the home deed is in my name, not the banks. Additionally I have millions in other assets. It is actively my choice to pay the mortgage because using my own money to buy something this big when I don’t have to is retard tier, which is the tier you clearly belong to. Renting gives you nothing. You want to talk slavery? You literally have a land LORD who rules over your dwelling who any change to it you have to ask permission for. Who when his shit breaks you have to fix it or wait weeks while he gets off his ass and eventually deals with it. Who on a whim can toss your ass out on the street the second your little contract expires.

Yes, keep renting :)

>>58198295
I agree with most of this except for this part:
>It is not the monthly payments that drag you down financially as a home owner, but rather the lump sum of capital you put down up front.
I'd guess that a lot of middleclass homeowners are stretched way too thin to pay their mortgage, especially recent buyers. So over the duration of the mortgage, the effects are pretty bad when you consider that instead of investing or increasing their retirement savings, most of their money is only being poured into the equity of their home.
On another message board not reddit or here, there was discussion about people's net worth excluding home equity and most people did not think it was a fair to not include home equity. When it was deemed ok to include home equity then all the e-braggers came out. Normies have always considered home ownership to be the safest and most prudent way to accumulate wealth so they'll do anything to get there. Most people are not real estate investors, they are just finding any way to get into a home and eventually pay it off one day.

>>58199525
>I bought my home newly built and now it’s worth almost twice what I spent 6 years later.
Priced in monopoly money (USD), sure. You also have to keep in mind that the US national debt doubles every 8 years, and the US has printed more money in the last 4 years than any period in history.
Price your home in terms of BTC and it went down in value.

>>58193567
there's a word for it, it's called a
>poorfag problems

it's pathetic really, how poorfags dictate their lifestyle based on how much it "costs"
it's fine okay live like that but don't tell others you have some smartass savings knowledge on twitter, poorfaggot

>>58195452
>en if it has a mortgage on it, and use the proceeds to pay off the mortgage while pocketing what's left over to put towards a new place.
Everyone knows that dude its the fact that mortgages can be higher than what you can sell the house for.

>>58199496
its not so bad when you realize that prospective homebuyers are increasingly brown and should not be allowed to own a piece of america. pricing out browns and keeping them in their boxhives while whites inherit houses is the best way forward. if some white guys from trashier families have to suffer then so be it

>>58199611
Shitskins will always be priced out. Niggers are so retarded they “needed” housing assistance in the fucking 1960s. Let’s not make things expensive just to gatekeep from shitskins - they are incapable of property ownership even in conditions that would seemingly be ideal for them

>>58193567
>10k a year on maintenence and renovations
Why would you need to renovate every single year?, and you don't spend anything near 5k on maintenence unless ypu're some retard who can't fix his own shit and needs to hire repair men.

>>58199496
Not true at all. I'm from NY and some homes in the city are cheaper than trailers in the middle of buttfuck nowhere. You will of course be living next to melanated individuals and your closest gas station will have metal bars on the bulletproof glass windows.

You don't want to live there, do you? Obviously the nice trendy parts of cities will be expensive because everyone wants to live there. The only people who need to actually afford it are high earning professionals who work in the city.

>>58199611
>pricing out browns and keeping them in their boxhives
Arabs and Mexicans will live one family per bedroom and see nothing wrong with this. I live near one of the most Arab parts of the midwest and all of their bedrooms are just 4-5 mattresses on the floor. You're not pricing them out of their lifestyle.
>if some white guys from trashier families have to suffer then so be
You're pricing out blue collar workers and creating a country of third worlders and basedboy office workers. It will further spread the competency crisis, like when know-nothing city slickers sent their Mexican truck drivers through Colorado to chase profits that looked good on paper because every common sense white guy knew not to drive through there during those weeks. Aerospace is suffering in the same way.

>>58199699
>Not true at all. I'm from NY and some homes in the city are cheaper than trailers in the middle of buttfuck nowhere.
We're comparing renting in the same area to owning in the same area, midwit.

>>58193567
People decide to be house poor because you lose money to the landlord.

My ass.

The landlord scales, has insanely low interest rate only loans, buys cheap property, pays cheap money to fix it.

Do you think you can beat a landlord?

You better rent and invest your money.

Your house is a liability not an asset.

Measure your wealth by how long you can survive if you stop getting income.

Only thay way you can be free.

>>58199713
How big is the "area" you're talking about, and how the fuck was I supposed to know that based on your conversation?
>midwit
Projection.

>>58199725
Who the fuck writes like this? Have you ever heard of a paragraph?

>>58199733
> Criticize my style or writing because you can't beat my argument.

OK

>>58198375
Yeah, maybe the value of the house doesn't go up. But with a house there is potential for profit and potential for loss. With rent there is no potential for profit and 100% potential for loss.

>>58199727
>How was I supposed to read your post?
>I can just reply to anyone with any retarded fucking argument

>>58199746
You can win the argument, but holy fuck bro. You need to learn how to write. Where you homeschooled or some shit?

>>58199757
How would I have extrapolated that from your post?
>renting is cheaoer than buying a home in all 50 states
I literally posted about NY and NY alone. That's one of the 50 states you braindead retard.

>>58199773
>I'm dumber than AI. I can neither understand the context of your post, nor read the article image.
>Please feed me more (You)s

>>58193622
Only if you have no mortgage payments.

>>58193695
This
Same in Poland, solid brick house that will last for hundred years easily with no need for constant repairs and renovations, next to nothing in property taxes. Feels good to be europoor

>>58199786
>noooo you have to respon to my image not my post
Nope.
>the context
What fucking context you drooling moron? You said renting was cheaper in all 50 states. I posted an argument which is baseically "you can buy a house in the ghetto that's cheaper than a penthouse rental in NYC" which is a fucking fact that even a child could recognize.

>>58193728
Guess you haven't heard of negative gearing. "Investor" home buyers will take less rent than the cost of the mortgage but they don't mind because they think house prices will keep going up. They also claim the loss as a tax deduction on their income. The media makes a big beat up of this so they can blame high house prices on investors, not the millions of immigrants being brought in. They also talk about "negative gearing" like it's some kind of loophole and not just the genuine loss that it is. And no one ever considers that the efficiency of harvesting losses to lower a tax burden results in lower rents which is actually helpful for poor people.

>>58199882
People would rather the government just steal that money from the homeowner because they're envious crabs in a bucket and can't think about anything for themselves. Newsflash retards: The government isn't spending that money on making life easier for you. First it's going to scam industries like medicine, defense, etc so those guys can get richer. Then they need to spend it on bringing in more immigrants so the ponzi can keep growing. Yes, that's right, spending to grow the ponzi. These shitskins are a net negative BUT they keep upward pressure on house prices by bringing DEMAND when dying boomers would have meant enormous overSUPPLY. So now the average cuck is in maximum competition when buying a house, that means he needs the biggest loan he can get, that means the money supply keeps expanding because bigger loans keep getting issued.

>>58199611
Indians and Mexicans will live 10 people in a two bedroom house. I have been looking at homes and have become adept at identifying neighborhoods with browns, they always have four to six or cars perpetually parked in their driveways.

Captcha: N0GS8

>>58200027

Import the 3rd world and become the 3rd world.

Its such a joke to see USians bitch and moan about house prices when it is lightyears ahead of all other countries in any positive metric on the housing market. Even more so if you only include non-meme countries, because apparently oil countries with indian slave forces have cheap housing.

>landcucks not realizing this post doesnt include the 32,000 a year in mortage servicing

price this all in as well as compounding your 60k downpayment at 4%

landcucks have to live in a shack and rent their house out to make it profitable

>heh you spent money beautifying your dwelling and customizing it to your specifications?
>Shoulda rented like me and have zero control over your environment
Inb4 "spend money traveling". You and I both know 90% of renters are renting because they're poor and have no money to travel.

>>58200153
How is it ahead of Denmark for example?

>>58193567
Rentoids pay this + profit margin to their landlord

>>58199538
Ok but that’s a very case by case argument. For example my mortgage + taxes for my house are around $2700 a month but an equivalent house rents for $3500. So the person “stretched” is far more stretched here as a renter. Of course, no one should buy OR rent too big of a house, monthly payments should be sustainable based on your income and apples to apples the only difference between renting and owning is renting you are flushing the capital down the toilet whereas owning you are making a partial direct investment in an asset class which has proven to appreciate dramatically over time. Which is why the only real drawback comes from taking a large sum of initial capital and investing that into a home that likely won’t pay back competitive yield. Like, I have now 5x’d on my investment in 6 years. It’s not bad, but I could have dumped that money into AMD and 50x’d. After that though I was able to increase my ability to invest. If I didn’t own my house no way would I have 7 figures in crypto today, too much would have gone to rent and I likely would not have saved even half as much. Your mileage may vary, but on the whole apart from the down payment it’s very difficult to argue renting is preferable if things like how transitory are you, how big of a house do you need over time etc are removed from the picture. Renting works best as a short term housing solution and is otherwise non desirable.

>you shouldn't pay a lot of money for things that impact your life massively because you could rent a pod or live with your parents forever
$17000/year is not a lot of money

>>58193622
>im paying peanuts for a nice villa in Madeira while you pretend to own anything when they can confiscate your iliquid cuckstate at any time

>>58200370
Prices to income, price to rent, affordability, mortage to income

With "for example" you apparently mean "specifically the best housing market in Europe"

>>58195452
Yeah except that selling a place can take months, even years depending on location where as you can always just break your lease and walk away.

>>58193567
I make that much in three years

>>58200893
It helps to not live in a flyover shithole

5 grand in utilities!?

>>58200841
I didn't know it was the best housing market in europe, I just happen to live there and from what I can hear in these discussions, Americans pay a fortune for cardboard houses, while Danes pay next to nothing for high quality brick and mortar in great neighbourghoods.


https://www.johnfrandsen.dk/sag/36460000896/gartneralleen-30-8751-gedved/?utm_campaign=boligsiden&utm_source=boligsiden.dk&utm_medium=referral

This is a very average house for a very average middle class family.
It costs around 430,000 usd, so the family needs to put around 43,000 usd in downpayment for a 20-30 year loan.
These houses will last for hundreds of years and they need almost no maintenance.
It's a house in an average neighbourghood in an average town close to an average city.
Over all as average as possible.
Most middle class families will easily be able to afford a house like this in Denmark.
From what I can see, this is vastly superior to American houses in build quality and in price.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>58193567
30 years of the rent on my home would be 1.6 million even if it never escalated
>>58193584
no.

and i don't have to spend these "average" amounts on any of these things lmao

>>58195452
Only works in USA and Canada

>>58201136
it says "annual" right on it, my man. just under $450/month. perfectly reasonable. i pay more than that, in fact, and i save elsewhere.
the key to this cope twitter post is this imaginary $4392 on "repairs" and then another $3784 on... repairs.
that's $8176 which he imagines will happen every single year for 30 years.
it doesn't. owning a home has cost me less than half that in repairs.

>>58193567
Imagine unironically paying for shit like this. I'll never buy a home, only the mentally ill normalfags do that.

>>58193567
All the arguments are defunct when your rent is factored into paying all those bills from the landlord. Instead of building equity yourself you paying for someone else equity and when you leave you get nothing back in return. Quite possibly the worst investment is renting.

Why isn't there a single person that does any sort of research on the housing market? Is this place just bots and thirdies?

>>58199667
That is high, but think of it as a yearly average.
Windows, for example, are expensive-as-fuck and could set you back 40k every 20 years (2k/yr).

>>58193622
renting is marginally cheaper but you have nothing to show for it after 40 years of wage cucking, if you bite the bullet and buy a house youll at least have a 400k shitbox when youre 65

>>58193567
Mostly all of that can be done in house if the man is handy and had a decent father that taught him some basic carpentry. Homeownership is expensive as fuck if you can’t hammer and nail or turn a screw. The things you own, end up owning you.

>>58202718
Still have that property tax.

>>58193567
>$4,392 on maintenance and repairs
I don't live in the united states of burgershart where the houses are made out of paper
>$3,784 on renovations and improvements
That's their decision. I'm not a retard who cares about adding extensions or refurbishing to impress the neighbours
>$5,362 on utilities
Live in a country that actually gives a fuck about its citizens and puts caps on this shit
>$2,904 on property taxes
Thats fine
>le insurance
Simply don't do it lmao

>>58202718
>renting is marginally cheaper but you have nothing to show for it after 40 years of wage cucking
Instead of putting 20% down on a home, which is $83k (median home cost is $417k in the US), you can invest that over a period of 30 years and come out ahead.

>>58193567
homeowner 4br house. I spend about 7k annually on the house not including utilities (tax/repairs etc). renters usually pay utilities as well so that argument is stupid. so 575 monthly for a 4 bedroom house on 3 acres. im really not understanding OPs argument. 15 year mortgage btw 3% fixed (1400 monthly)

>>58193567

It's painful but simple:

>economic highs
rent

>economic lows
buy

My friend bought a house in 2010 and now it's worth 3x what he paid. So if another collapse comes then buy. The problem is the oligarchy is preserving the house market at all costs. it's a clear play to checkmate home ownership for 80% of people.

>>58195351
Hoomers pay interest too which comes to like 30% of the home price at the and. Cope hoomer.

>>58204605
>where the houses are made out of paper
If houses were made of paper, the maintenance and repairs would be less expensive to reflect the materials.
>Simply don't do it lmao
>Just be rich enough to straight up buy a house and not need a loan

>>58193631
>>58193631
but how much is your tv loicense?

>>58193567
>$4392 on maintenance and repairs
Seems wildly exagerrated but ok whatever
>$3,784 on renovations and improvements
Entirely discretionary
>$5,362 on utilities
Do renters not pay for electricity and water now?
>$2,904 on property taxes
Also factored into your rent
>$1,516 on homeowners insurance
Just like many renters are required to have renter's insurance

>>58195374
just like how taxing corporations more doesn't make their products more expensive
kek

>>58193632
the 538k figure is on top of the mortgage, so those expenses would also inflate over time. Not saying I agree with the numbers because they are fairly high. If you have a mortgage you're also paying interest so it's not accurate to say your mortgage is becoming more affordable over time and anyone buying now will be paying a much higher principal and interest than home buyers a couple years ago. If rent catches up with the recent increase in home prices then the discussion would be much different, but I doubt the average renter could afford 3k rent and that would still be less than mortgage+expenses on a median home.

>>58193567
If you're renting you're paying for all of that through your rent lmao.

>>58193567
lmao i'm doing all my repairs myself and i live at 200km from the nearest big city
i cut trees for wood, only pay for screws or nails
0 on renovation since i'm doing it
0 on utility since we have 3 energy sources not on the grid
barely 500$ of property tax
500$-ish on insurance
YEARLY
it's fucking cheap but you have to be a man

>>58205423
>44 grand for an Amazon cubicle in the middle of nowhere

>>58205570
citybo can't unda stand

>>58193622
>SHUT UP, GOY! YOU MUST OWN NOTHING AND BE HAPPY!

>>58193567
Half a million over 30 years isn’t that much esp vs renting

>>58193567
Do people do this kind of cost analysis for considering having children too?

>>58193632
By the time your mortgage is paid off everything else (maintenance/tax) will have inflated. I live in a 30 year old house, if you bought in 1994 the loan payment would have been $1150, property tax $160, insurance $30, maintenance $150, total: $1490 (1994 dollars). Nowadays if you lived in the same home but paid off, your property tax will be $650, maintenance $450, insurance $100, total: $1200 (2024 dollars) or $570 in 1994 dollars which is still almost 40% of your original housing costs when you adjust for inflation. Paying off your house does not cut your housing cost to zero, it just cuts it by a large percent.

>>58193567
>that much yearly on maintenance, repairs, renovations, improvements

If you are constantly fixing up and improving your house the house will get bigger and will be up to date making its value sky rocket way past its cost

>>58193622
500,000 dollars/30 years = 16,666 dollars
16,666 dollars /12 months = 1,300 dollars
I'm paying 850 for rent, 40 for internet, 10 for renter's insurance, and that's it.
Homecucks are paying 1300 on top of their 2000+ dollar mortgage.

No, the math doesn't add up

>>58195650
Shut up goy. It is better for the community that we tear down your homes and build a McDonalds in its place.

Just be grateful that we are giving you half the price of your house worth.

>>58206003
This anon wants to own nothing because he thinks he will die happy.

>>58193567
yea but you can write off most of those expenses and if you're resourceful you can cut costs. The dollar doesn't buy you much anymore either, the dream is dead and the zog killed it

>>58205161

>The problem is the oligarchy is preserving the house market at all costs.

That's my concern. They may burn down the entire country to preserve the landlord caste in order to be rulers of the ashes.

>>58206164
Wait why do all of those landlords look alike?

We need to all work together and make commercial real estate and public buildings obsolete.

This will force companies and the government to convert their real estate to residential real estate.

>>58206184
home token

>>58206172

Are you noticing something?

>>58193567
I payed all my homes cash, so no interest for me. Need to do 100k$ repair and improvements on one house, thinking about selling of some land I have in another country that I'm never gonna use to finance it. Imagine paying interest or rent. Poor people are dumb people. >>58194792
City people are the dumbest creatures on this planet. They live in filth surrounded by jews and niggers, have 0 life skills and practical skills other than ordering food through an app and going to concerts, yet they feel that they're superior to people who can maintain and repair everything they own + cook all their food themselves and create their own hobby environments. An old girlfriend called me city bumkin when I visited her in Seoul, turns out she can't even operate a tumble dryer, build an IKEA furniture or cook. I called her a city retard and left her.

>>58206172
high IQ

>>58206243
>when I visited her in Seoul
a rice mincer's opinion

Will we see the day when houses are tokenized on the blockchain and we can buy tokens that represent a percentage of the place? Like paxGold but with houses.

>>58206499
So no objections to the rest of my opinions? Plenty of my ancestors spread their seed all around the world. You call that a cuck thing? Sure thing mr natsoc chad with 0 white kids and divorce raped

>>58198375
>bank owns you
If that’s the case then why could I shoot the CEO of any of the big4 in the face if they tried to enter my home without my consent?

The average person is a fucking retard who does retarded things that damage their home.

>>58193584
Can rentcucks borrow money against their apartments?

>>58206003
And when it comes time to move you can see a return and possible profit when you sell your-uh… hmm…

>>58207180
That's money you've payed into the house yourself.
How much of a profit can you expect on the house over a period of say 20 or 30 years?

You can use the money from the down-payment, and all that extra money that goes into the house to invest in the stock market instead.
How much of a profit can you expect if you invest that money into the stock market for a period of 20 or 30 years?
These are the real questions you have to ask if you're solely buying a house to save money or make a profit.
My intuition says you're better off renting and investing in the stock market in most cases, if profit is your only motive.

>>58193567
Whatever numbers you can conjure up on a certain property, renting would be automatically more expensive than that. Unless you find a landlord that is giving you a home out of charity and doesn't take profits, I guess...

>>58193567
$538,740.00 comes to just under $1,500.00 a month
>I'll take "what is equity" for $100 Alex

>>58206490
the backman 1970 project talent study determined that jews have an iq of 100 average

>>58193567
Last years home ownershipcosts:
Mortgage - $0 - cause you dont own if you ave a mortgage
Mainenene - $800 - i pay a lawn guy
Utilities - $0 - not paying utilities doesnt affect home ownership need those no matter where you live
Property taxes. $2,300 - 0.65%
Homeowners insurance - $1200

Thats $129,000 over 30yrs. Nnot bad actually.

>>58193567
You pay the maintenance, utilities, property tax, and part of that insurance price already except you give the first 3 to your landlord. In exchange for only needing contents insurance, you give up all the upside appreciation of the property by renting it. Seems like renting is a horrible deal in the long run for the renter.

>>58193710
bangledesh

>>58193751
>buttercup thinks a landlord will eat a cost

lmao, sweaty onions, I.....

>>58193879
hey now, they used it during covid. if they didn't get the death jab, they were denied healthcare and considered negligent on their taxes.

>>58207901
buy a robot lawn mower retard

>>58207988
Fuck that shit. You cant just set that out and forget it, fuck a roomba is more work than i want to do and is as much work as having a wife to keep the house clean, paying a nigger or spic $50 every other week to mow my lawn is worth the time its going to take me in set up and maintaining a robo-mower, which isnt exactly something you even want to leave unattended in a neighborhood with small children running around. Especially when some of those small children are your own.

>>58207901
Utilities are more expensive for a house than a 1 bedroom apartment.

Also, there are times where you are going to pay more for maintenance than 800 dollars.

>>58208091
you can adjust how much you use utilities citybo

>>58207919
If you are single or a in a relationship, a 1 bedroom apartment is much cheaper.

Only way to justify a house is if you have a family. You will make more money and take less risk by putting your money in an index fund with 12% return rate.

>>58208102
I work from home so I need fast and reliable internet. I would love to live in the country.

>>58208160
Surely even the inbred retards in Kentucky have run fiber by now

>>58201172
Consider that danes earn about 2 times less.

Also a lot of dumbass hoomers here never heard of capital consumption. Even if you lived 10 years in your (your as in the banks) house and never had a large repair, the chances are indefinitely small that you will NOT be hit with a one time 15k payment over the next years for some bullshit reason like mold.
If this happens every 15 years, your "average" maintenance cost goes up by 1000 a year, because that's how much you would need to save in order to cope with large one time payments.

Unironically owning nothing and being happy is the best cope to escape this gay ass retarded simulation.
You don't want to fuel the blackrock-powered dystopia by any means necessary.

I'm going to be moving into pic related in a year and just piggy backing off public parking space to stealth sleep in there. I will spend my days at work, the gym and the library. Insurance is 50€ a year, I will move it by hand.
My only living costs will be food, gym and laundry and I will use the rest of my wage to pursue business ideas and invest if I don't make it big.

WAGMI

>>58193567
Forest houses are not taxes, come into nature

>>58208380
Why not live in a caravan on a campsite instead?
It's cheap enough, and some places they allow people to stay in the winter.
It looks like you're from Germany?
There's a lot of great cozy campsites in Germany, and it's not too expensive to get a season pass.
Lots of places you'll have access to facilities like a small gym, a pool, a kitchen, a shower, a small restaurant and a small store where you can buy milk and bread and such, and of course let's not forget toilets.
You'll have both electricity, heat, water, and a fridge in a caravan/campsite.
If you're not allowed to stay year round year after year, you can just move between campsites.
It's a lot better than living in a small trailer with a flappy rubber cover.
You can buy a cheap caravan including a good tent for around € 1500,- and you won't feel and look like a homeless person.
You can pay your father or your uncle a couple of cases of beer to move it if you don't have a car that can tow.

>>58207937
I include water in my leases because if a rentoid gets the water turned off the city charges like $200 to turn it back on
It's basically impossible for them to turn off the gas because old people will freeze to death and make bad PR for utility companies

>>58201209
With AC on all day for 2 months, my bi-monthly bill is about 250. 450 is a lot, as an average per month.

>>58209054
Yes, german.
Sadly the prices don't check out, even a shitty used one is about 6500 right now, while the rubber shits regularly go for sub 1k. And renting a campsite is about as expensive as just paying rent for a normal shared flat when factoring in all expenses, there have been people blogging about this a lot and the best they get is maybe a 30% decrease compared to local rent (while having to deal with additional aids such as freezing pipes).
Also I don't really plan on having any utilities there, it will likely be just a "bed" with some high end low temp sleeping equipment, a bit of storage in form of a box that I can lock up, an emergency "toilet" frame where I can just shit into a plastic bag silently if it ever gets me (I plan on shitting in the gym anyways), and a container with a large opening that I use to collect the bit of water from washing hands or brushing teeth that I will put in a backpack once in a while to flush down in public toilets.
I will throw the bit of trash I produce into public trash bins.
I don't cook anyways, I just buy everything fresh every day from the store and eat it in one sitting so that shouldn't be a problem either.
Shaving and basic grooming can be done outside once in a while, I will just keep my hair in a good buzzcut.
This should be enough considering that I will only sneak into it order to sleep and then wake up to work/library/gym again.

Whole cost really gets down to 500-600 a month, all included. Can't beat that except by leeching off someone.

And for
> feeling homeless
> comfort
I don't. I eat, drink and sleep to survive. I don't really care about comfort anyways. Sometimes I go on day long homeless larp tours where I pack my backpack and just don't return home while sleeping outside. Works fine, can't complain.
Rent and housing is extremely overrated.

>>58193567
Because homes are actually liability. They strangely became an "asset that passively appreciates" within the last 50 or so years for reasons.
It almost like it is a multi-group grift of hot potato.

>>58193854
>I stick it to Klaus by paying him extra taxes and risking having my "property" seized and getting sent to plaguerat gulag if I refuse the vaxx
do cucks really?

>>58193567
Maintenance/repairs, renovations, and property taxes are basically split by multiple renters if it's a multifamily unit. Utilities are lower due to a smaller space...same reason as to why renter's insurance is cheaper.

This shit is why a single family home that one lives in isn't a saavy """investment""". It generates no passive income, it keeps up with inflation with a little bit on top, and worst of all: has a cost to merely hold it.

>>58210074
That seems expensive. I'm surprised since cars are always much cheaper in Germany than in Denmark. Maybe it's the model? If you search for 'wohnwagen' aren't there cheaper alternatives then?

There are many good quality used caravans in Denmark that go for 25,000 DKK ~€3300,- (these are old but really good ones, registered and inspected with plates)
There are also some good quality ones that go for 10,000 DKK ~€1300,- tent included.(most at this price are without plates and probably won't go though inspection and need to be towed on a trailer)

https://www.dba.dk/camping/campingvogne/?sort=price

>>58193567
Do americans really?
I mean here in Europe (in my eurocountry) you'd pay:
>Property tax
The average person probably pays less than 1k a year.
>Insurance
(two different ones): maybe 350€-400€ a year or something on average.
>Waste collection fee
Less than 100€ average a year.
In total... say 1000-2000€ a year on average
God I love being european.
>americucks

>>58210159
I own 2 of these liabilities, one on 5 acres. No debt. Life sucks, weighed down by liabilities.

>>58204782
>you can invest that over a period of 30 years and come out ahead.
Perhaps, but the house you have ownership of and can oversee its upkeep, investing in imaginary greater fool risk assets might not work out either.
One other thing, your mortgage is 1000 a year
rent is 800 a year, for ease of argument
next year rent is 900
1000
1200
1400
1600
1800
2000
2100
2100
2200
2400
.......
30 years later your rent is like 5k a month and your mortgage is still 1000 a month
So buying is a good hedge against inflation vs renting

>>58210436
>your mortgage is still 1000 a month
and then it becomes zero dollars a month
I plan to live past 60 i dont know about you guys

>>58193622
>dont pay taxes; property gets repo
ya, you dont own shit

>>58208176
Nope.

>>58193567
>>58193622
USA USA, dying empire

>>58207956
That never happened

>>58193567
Who keeps doing all these renovations? My parents house hasn't had any changes done to it for like 6 years and everything was just fine. We decided to upgrade the yard last year and that's it. In those six years the only thing that went wrong was the boiler breaking down and needing to be replaced (once). Nevermind talking about my grandma's house which hasn't had any work done to it in a decade and is still just fine.

>>58210163
You understand that property tax is part of your rent calculation right? I'd rather 10% chance my shit is stolen instead of 100% chance of owning nothing and being happy.
You are happy. Right?

>>58210928
Do you think rent can't go up and down?

>>58210928
My rent is 900 (CAD) a month and I pull 2k (USD) a week while renting from my low COL area

>>58210960
Wfh

>>58210942
>>58210960
The cost of rent in places that aren't slum shitholes is the cost of the underlying loan + taxes + maintenance + profits to the landlord (read: tip). If your rent is cheap it's because those costs considered the cost is still low. If your landlord is taxed it's you that pays the tax when rents increase.

>>58210163
> plaguerat gulag
reactionaries have the weirdest mental diseases.

>>58193801
we respond with an x2 in 3 years. cope and seethe rentoids as your rent doubles in three years

>>58210895
Roof, floors, windows, Kitchen, Bathroom.
At some point these things need renovation and they're very expensive to replace. You don't have to do them often, but averaged out over the years it adds up.

>>58211086
Okay well I am making money hand over fist so I don't care. I'm making next to 2 grand USD a week.

>>58211890
Ok. That's not really impressive. My biweekly pay is 4600 and I own a rental property that nets a few extra hundred on top of the mortgage. Thanks for playing.

>>58193567
You pay all that one way or another. The only difference is when the owner gets in the game. Obviously the earlier the better.

>>58193567
A house? GRAVITY is funnier, and you can own you armor and items

>>58213781
True, house is for oldfags

>>58213781
games are for pssy anon

>>58193567
Just rent

>>58213781
Looking good anon

absolute kek replies itt

holy shit yall are delusional

>>58195625
>I don't even use half my house
the renter will never know this feel

>>58211825
Not true. Eventually someone wants to buy your house to tear down everything to build a bigger house. Literally happening to my parents as we speak.