/biz/ - Business & Finance

>lives in germany
>literally surrounded by tax haven countries
What are you doing anon

>>5799137
Refugees need money, anon

>>5799137
Why 67%?
It's taxed as income right?
Is 67% the highest income tax bracket? Wtf?

>>5799354
which? its not as easy as you think anon

>>5799137
>taxes

>>5799137
I thought communism was abolished?

>>5799137
1. HODL for a year
2. Evade taxation
3. ???
4. PROFIT

>>5799653
Portugal for example, mein Bruder.
>register company in Portugal
>set up letterbox and bankaccount there
>cash out on portuguese bank
>go on vacation in portugal
>take 10K cash with you everytime you return
>get stopped by customs
>"oh ok, it's 10K which is perfectly fine to carry around with you inside the EU, have a nice day sir"

>>5799137
> Not just going on localbitcoins/localethereum or atm and selling for cash

easy

>>5799137
Home of the cucks

give ahmed and fatima a little of you gains, anon. they deserve it... kek

seriously though. i might actually move out of the country temporarily, should i make it... in a similar situation here

you get fucked by normalfaggotry all your life, finally start to make it, and then you'd have to give half of it to the people who perpetually fucked you over?
fuck no...

i heard u can crypto tax free in germany. wut

>>5799137
hold for a year and it's literally 100 % tax free you fucking imbecile

>>5799862
You can. See >>5799792 and >>5799907
It's then classified as a "privates veräußerungsgeschäft" which, if you made gains and kept the asset for a minimum of a year, is tax fucking free.

>>5799907
>>5799986
>>5799862
>>5799792
Only works with currencies that you can trade directly to €, which means if you hold an Altcoin for a year and trade it to BTC/ETH/LTC and then to €, you still have to pay taxes.
So the only way to get it tax free is to trade Crypto and then trade it all to either BTC/ETH/LTC and hold THAT for more than a year

>>5799907
>>5799986
But According to the other thread it’s up to you to prove you did everything right, otherwise the government can take as much as 90% of it.

Also it is not clear that you can exchange your btc for shitcoins tax free. If you just had to not swap out to fiat for a year, that would be ok.

I’m looking at such options as moving to Denmark or some Asian country so that I can cash out. Either that or establish a corporation.

>>5800092
you're holding the wrong altcoins then, anon. XRP is the way to go.

>>5800092
You think anyone is gonna check if you've made trades? If they see that you bought BTC and then sold BTC 1 year later, they're not gonna give a fuck. Most people don't even know what crypto trading is.

>>5799814
Portugal is not a tax haven though

>>5800149
>Buy 2k€ worth of BTC
>Cash out with 500k € worth of BTC
>Yeah, BTC just grew a lot, I just held it.

>>5800149
>buy 1 btc in 2017
>sell 5 btc in 2018

Where did those 4 btc come from, anon?

>>5800169
It's a tax haven for crypto though: https://www.dn.pt/dinheiro/interior/financas-lucros-com-bitcoin-nao-pagam-imposto-9007290.html

>>5800149

This.
It's first in first out principle. Bought some BTC in April? You can cash them out tax free in April this year.

Gonna need to do some explaining if you cash out more BTC than you initially bought. Though who honestly cashes out everything? If you have "free" Bitcoin I'd just keep them in the wallet

>>5799137
>Going back to fiat

>>5800249
No joke but that is about what happened to me, I did buy BTC pretty early though

>>5800249
>>5800253

Even then it's 25% tax. Idk where OP got 67% from

>>5799137
Ahahahaqhahahahahahahaaha have fun paying for all those Islamic rapefugees with your hard earned crypto gains. Jesus fuck what a joke of a country.

>>5800092
you pay taxes on the profit you made on every individual trade if the acummulative profit is over 600€ per fiscal year
if you hold altcoins for over a year and then trade them to btc and instantly cash out, you probably made no significant profit on the altcoin->btc trade unless btc goes on a moon rampage in the time it takes to process your transactions so you won't have to pay taxes on it

I think you still have to pay a separate 19% tax when you cash out regardless tho iirc

>>5800303
Einkommenssteuer.
If you cash out more than 8600€ you have to pay 6% of it to taxes up to 42% when it's more than 53.666€

>>5799137
>trade crypto
>1.4% tax
Welcome to the Netherlands!

>>5800381
I cashed out about 15k€ and had to pay nothing.

>>5800092
Are you really that stupid? When you made your gains holding Your shitcoin and trade it to BTC to cash out you only have to tax the money(profit) which you made during the small time you where holding btc to cash out.

Why do people with literally no basic knowledge about economy do even try to get rich?

>>5799384
This.

Thanks mama Merkel!

>>5800263
Only if you're not doing it for a living

>>5800431
I was explaining that holding a currency you can NOT trade directly to €, is tax relevant, even though you held it for more than a year.
Holding a crypto currency for more than a year and that you CAN trade directly to € is completely tax free

BTW OP, how did you find the tax rate? I went to the tax office yesterday and they couldnt tell me

>>5799137
Does this mean the IOTA founders are taxed to hell, since they are in Berlin?

Please be so, they are people deserving of bad karma

>>5800416
They didn't find out, you got lucky.
There's a minimum amount of incoming transfers that triggers an audit. I don't know the exact amount.

You go above that in a certain time period, bank freezes your account and begins audit.

>>5800531

who decides on that / what determines that

Greek here by the way, IMF forced us to adopt the same tax policy as Germans since 2015, so the rates are the same for us.

As an anon said above, no fucking taxman in the municipality or tax office knows what this "crypt-oh-currency" is, and they can't tell me the rates. A lady there gave me a sheet for Market Share taxation, but crypto aren't shares.

>>5800564
Please do educate yourself on this point. You'll lose a lot of your money to refugees.
You only have to pay taxes on the profit you made holding an asset (whatever it is) and it is tax free after holding it for 12 months.

>>5799450
Lowest bracket

>>5800564
>>>5800431
>I was explaining that holding a currency you can NOT trade directly to €, is tax relevant, even though you held it for more than a year.
but it's not

>>5800634
>>>5800531 (You)
>who decides on that / what determines that


The tax office and the law. As a general rule if its the largest part of your income its considered doing it for a living

>>5800716

eww so arbitrary. sounds like they'll just take your money if they want to.

>>5799784
Jews won the war.

1. make big crypto gains
2. move to belarus with zero crypto tax
3. get a QT Slav Wife
4. enjoy life while Germany gets overrun buy rapefugees muslims.

>>5800885
5. Get invaded by Russia

>>5800944
i take invaded by russia over invaded by muslims any day senpai

American here, I have to pay 52%

39.8 % federal taxes as I'd be in the highest income bracket
And 12% state taxes because I live in a shitty liberal cuck state.

Land of the free, home of the whopper

>>5801048
You're getting assblasted my friend

>>5799814
might actually do that

>>5801048
>5801048
>paying full amount of taxes

Come on friend, wtf

Well i guess since you are in a high bracket they are eyeing you. But as for me
'i didn't know' : )

>>5799137
Can I have some Crpyto PLEASE? PLEASE? EVEN IF IT'S ONLY 50 CENTS PLEASEEE
REQ-0x570505e0ebdfa4cf97cf4345ded1453c303d7bf4
ETH-0x570505e0ebdfa4cf97cf4345ded1453c303d7bf4
LTC-LLbmMorVthEaaVyNnQxruzUB1imYcxRuth
BCC-1KdCTB5au42raDCyMfwQmarHkGgz4ogmy2
ARK-AH1ai6xtixyvgNkcMKQb6e6R6PDSby6vjU
NEO-AH2ENvQT1xzNZHBwJaa5HBcmGvndrgYkH1
DASH-XdD1thVc2VwNC7eqcHxvtweR3EFGBTZkNF
SALT-0x570505e0ebdfa4cf97cf4345ded1453c303d7bf4
Link-0x570505e0ebdfa4cf97cf4345ded1453c303d7bf4
FUN-0x570505e0ebdfa4cf97cf4345ded1453c303d7bf4
GAS-AH2ENvQT1xzNZHBwJaa5HBcmGvndrgYkH1
BAT-0x570505e0ebdfa4cf97cf4345ded1453c303d7bf4
BTC-1KdCTB5au42raDCyMfwQmarHkGgz4ogmy2

>>5801190
Enjoy your ban, poorfag.

>>5801190
Absolutely not, pajeet

>>5801190
sent ;)

>>5799332
this so cute

>>5799137
I don't know about tax laws for any country but my own but principles should be the same
Just move to a country with no capital gains tax. If you like first world countries New Zealand and Singapore work. Then you just need to stay there long enough that the taxman in your country doesn't consider what you earn overseas taxable in your home country.

>>5801190

>No FTC

>No 100 FTC for you!

>>5801286
And get the advice of a tax accountant or lawyer. Their job is to make you pay as little tax as possible

>>5799792
This.
Last time I touched any of my cryptos was in September.
I'm not touching them AT ALL until next September at least.
Something to do with a "good housefather" principle.
t. Belgian.

>>5799814
based anon

>>5801286
capital gains tax is probably coming to NZ soon fyi

>>5799137
Google local nearest bitcoin atm.
Go to denmark,switzerland netherland.holidays cashout 10k.

>>5801534
Fug
I was hoping to take advantage of my citizenship-by-descent

>>5801586
not a done deal yet but labour are in government and they've got a mandate to go after investors pushing up housing prices

>>5799137
21% here
I really don't mind paying the tax because I'm not a fucking nigger.
If it was 67% though... It would be a completely different story.

>>5800885
What would hinder people to move to belarus for several months, cash out and move back? Is it this fucking hard.

Or found a company in tax heaven countries, i mean come on.

Who the fuck pays tax? Everyone has to love wagecucking.

>>5801003
I think those unlucky enough to survive Berlin 45' would disagree.

>>5801722
150k € residence permit for one

>>5801710
You're a fucking nigger because you pay the tax. You taxcucks make me sick.

>>5801657
CGT hasn't stopped house prices from soaring here

>>5801722
Well here your liable for every trade and if you bugger off out of the country they consider your capital gains as realised, so the only option is to move indefinitely and trade in your new country

>>5800796
No they didn't. If you sell your car or a pound of banannas or anything for a private crypto like monero how would tyhe governmet know unless you tell them? They only win if you dislose. Hint, don't disclose. They cant tax you on something they dont know you have.

>>5800885
This. if you pay taxes you deserve to be poor. Rich people avoid taxes all the time, that's why they are rich

>>5801800
Fuck off you greedy and selfish criminal

>>5801848
which is probably why its not a done deal

>>5801710
At 21% you're still a nigger. The tax you paid was voluntary. You are a cuck

>>5801969
Taxes are theft, the state is a criminal and you're his accomplice. Fuck you, you disgusting slime.

>>5802128
Why do you think the state has any right to tax your crypto gains? What have they done to be in this position?

>>5802176
I think you're replying to the wrong post m8.

>>5802035
>The tax you paid was voluntary.
>You are a cuck
Choose one. I want to contribute to the well-being of my country and I also recognize that not doing so would be a criminal offense and I'm not a nigger. What's so bad about it?
>>5802128
Who hurt you? The state has not done anything to hurt me, but it educated me, provided me with healthcare, great infrastructure, police, firefighters, etc etc.
And it would be even better without disgusting pigs like you who stay in their mansions while making sure that they avoid every tax they can. Fucking kikes.

Brudis. Ich ziehe nach NZ wenn es soweit ist. Solltet ihr genauso machen.

>>5799137

hold one year.
stay under 600 euro.
or find some better country.

>>5802219
I do not remember signing any contract where I would be obliged to pay shit for welfare niggers like yourself.

>being anything other than a non dom british citizen who operates all his trading through offshore trusts

>>5802267
Ok

>>5801969
Why do you think the state has any right to tax your crypto gains? What have they done to be in this position?

>>5802212
Sorry m8.

>>5802308
>citizen
>non Dom
lmao

>actually going back to fiat where the government takes whatever it wants. all taxation is theft

>>5802363
What right? I don't know the exact law number.
If we're talking about morality, the state has invested great money into me and it would be an absolute disgrace to avoid paying my taxes and by doing this not repay my fellow countrymen.
I understand that an anti-social or a Jewish person may feel very bad about paying this tax, but that's too bad, the world isn't a completely fair place. We all know this, right? It's just that there really is no better alternative. Anarchism is a joke.

In Japan we have to pay 50% tax on any crypto gains above 180k.
55% tax on any crypto gains over 400k.

There isn't even a capital gains system, so literally no matter when you cash out, it is gonna cost the same.

I have to make 1m to come out with
500k profit.
I have been here 6 years and I hate it in America, but I would consider moving back for the long term capital gains. 300k is a huge fucking loss.

>>5802560
>mfw crypto will make banks and the state go out of business

>>5802614
lets hope so desu

what happens if the gov knocks on binance door? you all get busted

>>5802652
which government?

>>5800662

finance office tard here.
since there is no precedent (Präzedenzfall) you guys are all safe.
Crypto is new. And the old legislation doesn't apply since you are not trading stocks. Until there is no precedent, or a new legislation specific for crypto on its way you are good to go.

>>5802219
>Imagine being this much of a brainwashed cuck that you like having over half your stuff taken by the government.

I can't even begin to fathom this level if marxist indoctrination.

>>5802683
What do you propose? Everyone pays while you don't?
>over half your stuff taken by the government
No. I said that it's 21% in my country and even I would probably look into avoiding the tax if it was 56%

>>5802740
>I would probably look into avoiding the tax if it was 56%
>the absolute hypocrisy of taxcucks

>>5802793
The state is supposed to be sensible and balanced. 56% is way out of line. Sure, if I were a perfect citizen, I would pay it, while also rallying against it. However, I'm not perfect but at least I'm honest about it. And I don't know what I would do in that situation because I'm not in it.
Now tell me what you propose for a financial system? I'm curious if you're an actual ancap (braindead) or just a kike hypocrite.

>>5802867
>It's okay if Tyrone bangs my wife, but Ahmed and Jamal as well? I'm not going to have that!
You just decided to draw an arbitrary line like a subservient cuck you are.
>Now tell me what you propose for a financial system?
If you don't understand the basic mechanics of a free market economy, then that's on you.

feels good living in Canada with low capital gains taxes

>>5801476
What coins are you holding?

>>5802678
Finance office of which country?

>>5802922
What's with the obsession with cuckoldry? That's a horrible analogy that doesn't work in the slightest and you know it.
Also a completely free market that actually works well is as much a pipe-dream as real communism is.

>>5802990
Monero and Link.

>>5803087
>That's a horrible analogy that doesn't work in the slightest and you know it.
I disagree.
>Also a completely free market that actually works well is as much a pipe-dream as real communism is.
I'm yet to see any proof other tham muh feelings.

sometimes i don't know how many of you guys can function outside of this fucking board. here is how it works:

>you invest 5k€ into btc/alts/stocks/whatever in july 2017
>you cashout 50k€ in july 2018
>50-5=45k€ profit
>google "germany tax brackets"
>this bracket: 7 665-52 153
>15% taxes

you make an excel sheet with these 5 fucking numbers and add it to your tax report (Einkommenssteuererklärung). if you have any other income you declare that aswell.

>it's that easy

i repeat, if you think that you need to somehow keep track of all trades you are a fucking retard and don't deserve your gains. also whoever pays 67% taxes should kys right now (max taxes are 45% for income above 250k).

>>5803126
You must be seriously mentally ill to compare your wife to money.
>I'm yet to see any proof other tham muh feelings.
A completely privatized police force, education system, military, etc don't sound good to me. Neither does selling bagels with mercury in them and not telling the customers because it's cheaper or some shit like that.

>>5803217
>other than muh feelings
>don't sound good to me
I think you might be brain dead. I rest my case.

what about gains with ripple? technically it isnt a crypocurrency

>>5803204
How do you get 15 %? I thought after holding for a whole year it was completely tax free?

What's up with all those german tax posts spreading wrong informations?

It's just your income tax rate or 0% if you hold for a year. That makes german tax top tier for crypto.

Especially because it's easy as fuck to hide trading gains with those rules, assumed you're not stupid.

>>5803266
Don't even know what to reply. Congrats with your victory I guess. Picking at words really does wonders in online scuffles.

>>5802592

source? also living in japan

>>5800406
>30% van 4% betalen over mn magische internetmunten
>stroopwafels
>hagelslag
>langer dan 1,8m
>voeltgoedman

>>5803204

this assumes that you didnt trade in between.
every trade is a taxable event in fucking kukistan

>>5799653
Go to Switzerland, they also speak german

>>5799814
whats the point in taking cash with you? you can just use portuguese bank card in germany, usually with no additional taxes.

>>5803417
I only have sources if you can read Japanese fluently, but crypto is classified under 雑所得 so it gets added to your normal income tax, and the normal JP tax brackets apply, except for the fact that 雑所得 gets an automatic 10% extra added on to it as 住民税.

Stocks and forex max out at 20% tax apparently. Crypto maxes out at 55%.
It took 10 years for them to change forex gains into the same classification as stocks.

>>5803476
sorry, ich kann nicht mehr stillhalten. wie dumm seid ihr eigentlich? noch nie eine steuererklärung abgegeben? falls ihr nicht über 1MM auscashed seid ihr kleine fische. das heißt ihr zahlt eure 0-45% und haltet die fresse, niemand interessiert sich für jeden einzelnen trade. 99% der FAs wissen nicht mal was kryptowährungen sind.

ich mache es wie gesagt so wie oben und hatte noch nie probleme. ihr kriegt nur probleme wenn ihr keine steuern zahlt oder euch auf diese "1 jahr steuerfrei" regel beharrt. das FA belangt euch nur wenn ihr euch drücken wollt. wer sein zeug nachweist (1 excel sheet reicht) und steuern zahlt hat keine probleme. wenn ihr 1 jahr wartet, 500k auscashed und dann irgendwas von "1 jahr steuerfrei" labert dann werdet ihr gefickt. gesunder menschenverstand bitte.

>>5803374
s. o.

I don't know why this discussion still exists. Wash your gains through Monero and cash out via ATMs. Or don't and simply wait until you can pay directly with crypto (~6 months is my estimate). But wash it through Monero regardless.

>>5803648

thanks helpful anaon. I just moved to tokyo 6 months ago, no japanese. working in the tech sector. any advice on how to find a good tax advisor?

>>5800092
fairx about to change that boiiii

>>5803654
Anlage:
Kaufdatum mit blockchain transaktion
1 jahr wartezeit
trade / verkaufdatum mit blockchain transaktion

kauf / verkauf verifiziert in der blockchain 0% steuern

falls zwischentrades waren kann man die von der exchange exportieren und dementsprechend versteuern.
1 jahr halten ohne Steuern ist kein blödsinn.

WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT!
They came up with that crypto law ~summer last year.
Do I have to pay work up thpse trades retroactive or beginning from the date when the law was announced official?

>>5803204
Cool, because I obviously don't wanna buy altcoins, you mouthbreathing retard.

Every trade is a taxable event, so if you buy BTC, buy altcoins with that the same day, hodl altcoins for one year, sell altcoins for BTC and sell that BTC after a year, you're still gonna get fucked.

>>5803654

das ist doch aber geade der punkt ab einem gewissen betrag ist es eben relevant. ob dies nun bei 200k oder 500k ist sei daingestellt.

ich bin nicht in krypto um hier und da mal 10k zu machen. ich habe bereits >200k akkumuliert und frage mich wie ich all die einzelenn alt coin trades nachweisen soll. normalerweise muesste ich dieses jahr ja schon steuern darauf zahlen und im endeffekt nur deswegen auscahsen um die steuer ueberhaupt zahlen zu koennen.

>>5803654
wat. Cryptos kannste nach einem Jahr steuerfrei auszahlen. Da wird niemand gefickt du Bernd.

>>5803409
Wrong, all trades between cryptos are taxable with 25 % and if you cash out more than 9k a year, you are still gonna get fucked by income tax.

>>5803845

dir geht es bald ähnlich wie Hoeneß
ab 50 000 wird es eng

Du hättest schon für 2017 alles angeben müssen

die knastieren dich weg

Immigrants need welfare bucks so they can hang around in city centres molesting young girls

Who else is going to pay for it?

>>5803929

noch bis mai zeit.

>>5803996

Einfach halten. Ich habe den Fehler gemacht einmal zu verkaufen. Muss also abführen

>>5803966
this.

as a fellow proud german cuck you should donate all your crypto gains to the nearest immigration center

Hm. Also dumme Idee wenn man einmal 10k gemacht hat, einmalig sich 1k auszahlen zu lassen zur Feier? Hatte ich irgendwie nämlich vor.

>paying taxes
How uncreative are you?

>>5803996
Muss bis Dezember warten. Habe mein Geld in einem Monat verzehnfacht.

Einkommen bis 9k ist steuerfrei. Bin > all in gegangen. Wie ist das jetzt, wenn ich 9k vor der Haltefrist in ein anderes Coin reinpacke, zwecks Diversifizierung? Bleibt die 1 Jahresfrist fuer die restlichen Coins trotzdem bestehen?

I've never paid tax on capital gains before, do I get something in the mail or do I actively have to get a form and send it in? I'm in Finland btw

>>5804051

nicht aufs bankkonto. mach doch mal nen trip nach wien, da gibts schoene automaten..

Seriously tho, what kind of taxes can I expect in my situation?

>put in total 9k bucks into BTC over the last 3 weeks
>always bought altcoins with said BTC
>plan on hodling said altcoin for a year or two
>have to convert altcoin into BTC because can't cash out
>plan to hodl BTC for a year

How hard would I get fucked by the state?

why would you niggers even pay taxes? just withdraw it to diffrent bank accounts

>>5804093
Hui! Nach Wien wollte ich schon immer!
Danke für den Reisetip.

>>5799851

back to /pol/ containment plz

>>5804102

if you are in the cuck land that is germany thsi alrady constitutes a taxable event and the gains you made by trading have to be declared.

>>5804129

well he is not wrong

Zieht doch unaufällige Beiträge auf unterschiedliche Konten drauf?

>>5804093
>>5804084
>>5804051
>>5804031

They came up with that crypto law ~summer last year.
Do I have to work up those trades retroactive or beginning from the date when the law was announced official?

Anyone?

>>5804087
You declare it online and then you get a bill home

>>5803845
wünsche dir viel spaß beim FA wenn du versuchst deine 200k steuerfrei auscashen zu wollen ;)
die werden einen fick geben auf das eine jahr, außer du kannst es zu 100% nachweisen, jeden einzelnen trade auf jeder exchange mit belegen, die das FA auch akzeptiert. und da wird es schon kritisch, da keine der exchanges in deutschland liegt und alles sowieso ohne belege ist.

du wirst deine 45% zahlen müssen oder gefickt werden anon.

>>5804190

machst dich strafbar

>>5804319

argh, ja das ist echt hart. im schlimmsten fall muss ich wohl die 45% zahlen. besser als knast...allahu akkbar?!

>>5800662
Το μόνο που ξέρω για αφορολόγητα kέρδη από υπεραξία kεφαλαίου είναι για τίτλους που αποkτήθηkαν πριν το 2009. Είσαι σίγουρος ότι ισχύει kάτι παρόμοιο με το γερμανιkό kαι αν kρατήσεις τον τίτλο 1 χρόνο δε φορολείται;

>>5803664
How will you explain to the IRS where your million dollar mansion, lambo, and yacht came from when they audit you because your financial habits set off alarms?>>5803715

>>5804461
I won't buy a million dollar mansion, lambo and a yacht? Either that or I'll move to a tax haven.

>>5803664
You are totally right with RingCT and Kovri in the near future. How should it be traceable except clustering methodes and probability calculation.

>>5804461
Nobody gives a fuck, they can audit all day long and wont find hard evidence

ich kaufe im Sept.2017 für 500,- BTC und für €1500,- ETH. Für die €1500,- ETH kaufe ich 3 shitcoins à 500,-.
Sept.2018 verkaufe ich die shitcoins für ETH oder BTC.
Sept.2019 verkaufe ich den ganzen Haufen und muss nur den evtl. entstandenen Gewinn der ETH->shitcoin trades von Sept.2017 versteuern.
soweit korrekt?

müssen die ETH->shitcoin trades von Sept.2017
in die Steuererklärung von 2017 oder erst nach cashout in 2019?

>>5804739

monitoring

>>5804537
>evidence
lol you need eveidence for your profits retard

>>5799814
I have a portuguese citizenship but I don't live there. Can I just open a bank account and enjoy tax free crypto gains?

>>5804739
>Gewinn der ETH->shitcoin trades von Sept.2017 versteuern.
Sollte soweit korrekt sein.

in 2017 denke ich da da der Gewinn entstanden ist.
AAAABER!
Wenn du ETH zum preis X kaufst und beim shitcoin kauf der ETH preis kleiner als X war, dann fallen keine steuern an.
Zwischen ETH und folgendem shitcoin kauf könnten 10 minuten bis 3 tage liegen, mit Glück ist da nichts passiert oder ETH +/- 200 € gegangen :^)

>>5804739
Kling korrekt

http://blog.all-in-one-consulting.de/kryptowaehrung-bitcoin-handel-mining-steuern/

Würde ich empfehlen durchzulesen

>>5804810
Presumption of innocence. The burden of proof lies on them, else said government is acting criminally and therefore should be rounded up and executed.

>>5800381

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnstigerpr%C3%BCfung

>>5804430
Φίλε γάμα τα. Η φάση είναι ότι η υπάλληλος, μια γριούλα στα 60, είχε ρωτήσει όλο το γραφείο στην Νομαρχία, kαι πέρα απ' το ότι με kοιτούσαν με μισό μάτι, προσπαθούσαν να ανάγουν τα kέρδη από crypto σε kαφαλαιαkα kέρδη, kαι άρα να φορολογήσουν με 15%+5% kοινωνιkό μέρισμα. Καμια αναφορά για 1 χρόνο hodl == safe. Επίσης, τι γίνεται αν τα coins είναι από mining? Δεν θεωρείται kεφαλαιαkό kέρδος!

>>5802678
Thanks for this. This is what I thought too, that we can't pay tax for something that isn't covered by legislation. However, you can't believe how many weird looks I was getting at the Municipal office when saying that. I think the state is willing to treat you as a scammer unless you can prove them otherwise.

Give your crypto gain to Fatima and her 5 kids.

>>5799137
>go to NYE party
>get fingered by a refugee
welcome to germany

>>5804739
Außerdem: vor'm auscashen UNBEDINGT einen Steuerberater holen der dir hilft dem Finanzamt alles richtig auszudrücken und dir hilft deinen Plan besser vorzustellen.

>>5804894
i dont think is like that for "illegal" profits, not sure for the US tho. Most countryes can start a chek when you have experiential rise in profits and pay no tax. And if you cant explain how you got the money they take you hose and all that you got with that money.

Verstehe ich das richtig, dass ich in der Schweiz die Kryptowährungen als Vermögen deklariere und steuerfrei von den Kursgewinnen profitiere, da diese Devisen gleichgesetzt sind (sofern der Handel nicht als gewerbsmässig eingestuft wird)? Müssen die Transaktionen angegeben werden, oder reicht der Bestand per Ende Jahr?

>>5805012
In that case you are ruled by a criminal government and are obliged to oppose it by all means available to you.

Anon, this is a golden opportunity for all of us to make it. Don't let it go. Join this Pump group..

https://discord dot gg/JWWn6Qr

>>5804190
Das wäre dann ein lächerlicher Versuch der Geldwäsche, der für dich im Knast eben kann

>>5804810
In what country do you live, lol.

>>5801725
I think every person during '33 didn't like Germany stepping on their land yet now we cry because it didn't happen.

>>5804894
Wrong. They will assume your profits with a nice premium and hand you a nice tax bill. And that is the friendly scenario.

>>5805257
The hell are you talking about? Your post has no apparent coherence.

>>5805284
See >>5805196

>>5803892

Stop spreading wrong info faggot

>>5805422
Dude, prove me wrong.

>complaining about taxes
>everything is cheap
>so many free resources
>access to so many different things

Fuck you.

>>5805586

mohamed dedektiert

>>5800431
>Fiscal law
>economics

Brainlet pls leave

>>5805586
Yes goyim, pay taxes. The rapegees need.. I mean, the roads are not going to build themselves.

>>5801476

you are an idiot. you can do 10x more money, maybe you even lose because you invested in shitcoins, keep doing what you do

Nice danke.. jetzt versteh ich nurnoch bahnhof. Jede 2 minuten steht ne andere % zahl da. Gibts jemanden der da was ganz genaues weiss? Ich tausche am tag locker 5 mal alts hin und her. Das alles zu notieren ist unfuckingmöglich. Und ich zahl sicher keine 67% Steuern.. was tun? In meinem shitkaff kennt sich kein steuerberater mit kryptos aus lma

>>5805586
>>so many free resources
>>access to so many different things
muslim invader detected

>>5805531

Don't post if you don't understand crypto taxes fucking noob.

/biz/ turning into /pol/

it's fucking annoying

racists turds need to go back

>>5805748
>Ich tausche am tag locker 5 mal alts hin und her.

Hahaha hör einfach mit crypto auf sonst wirst du eingebuchtet

>>5805748
https://www.finanzgefluester.de/besteuerung-von-kryptowaehrungen/

Daytrading in Deutschland = Steuern aus'm Arsch

Nur halten alleine lohn sich

>>5805748
Same. Ich würde ja gerne den Höchstsatz zahlen ich mach aus dem nicht hier Geld aber dann bitte liebes finanzamt fickt mich nicht wenn ich euch nicht jeden trade angeben kann.

Das ist alles viel zu kompliziert wtf.

>>5805824
Niemand wird eingebuchtet. Die ganzen kleinen Kinder hier die das erste Mal Steuer in ihrem Leben zahlen, unglaublich.

Zeig mir einen Präzedenzfall bezüglich Steuerhinterziehung mit cryptowährungen.

>>5805893
>Niemand wird eingebuchtet.

That's what you think fag. They will pick one of your neets that gets welfare and trades crypto and make an example out of you. Enjoy 9-10 years in the JVA. They will fuck you up big time so no one else dares to trade crypto in Germany.

>>5800591
It's not static but a dynamic algorithm. Basically if you behave out of your normal routine and assigned wealth bracket you trigger a review. Nearly impossible to dodge with a relevant amount of money

>>5805727
Pic related, the post.

>>5806007
Sorry everything is based on entry and exit points and when you cannot find the exit point, then show me the mighty tax hammer.

Scared anon, the gv did a great job manipulating you.

>>5806009
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>5805893
Eine ordentliche Gesetzliche Vorgabe zur handhabe von Krypto und steuer gibt es erst seit letztem Jahr.
Da kann es noch keinen Fall geben.
Einer in diesem Thread kann es mit Glück sein .

>>5799137
welcome to Italy, 0 taxes boiii

>>5805893
Kek, wegen deinen €5000 Gewinn nicht, aber daraus werden halt schnell mal 50k oder 150k. Und dann haste die kacke am Dampfen.
Ich persönlich hab ausgecasht, steuern bezahlt und jetzt spiel ich gemütlich mit nen bisschen Kleingeld und nem trading bot. Immer wenn ich mein Geld verdoppel kauf ich davon was online und fang von neu an

>>5806144
>Ich persönlich hab ausgecasht, steuern bezahlt und jetzt spiel ich gemütlich mit nen bisschen Kleingeld und nem trading bot. Immer wenn ich mein Geld verdoppel kauf ich davon was online und fang von neu an

Wie hoch war dein Steuersatz anon?

>>5806144
Wenn es nur 5000€ wären. Es gibt unendlich viele Möglichkeiten, aber der der zahlt hat schon verloren.

>>5806073
Nigga

If Uli FUCKING Hoeness couldn't avoid jail time for tax evasion, then neither can you NEET.

They will fuck you up and make an example out of you.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/13/uli-hoeness-sentenced-three-and-a-half-years-prison-tax-evasion-germany

>>5800321
> Gee, it's so hard to buy crypto and sit on it for a year, why should all that work be taxed?
Almost any job is harder and still taxed, don't fall for the tax evasion meme. Or just move to some 3rd world warlord country, I heard they don't tax.

>>5806274
Has monero existed at that time? You never really cash out. That's how the game works.
Wait for koveri and thank me later

>>5804913
Τα ξέρω... Αποkλείεται να έδινε ανάσα η εφορία. Εδώ δεν μπορείς kαν να επενδύσεις, εγώ kάθομαι σαν το μαλάkα στέλω 1 χιλιάριkο το μήνα στο exchange αντί να μπορώ να αγοράζω ευkαιρίες

>Επίσης, τι γίνεται αν τα coins είναι από mining? Δεν θεωρείται kεφαλαιαkό kέρδος!

Θα σου πω αkριβώς τι πρόkειται να γίνει στην πράξη. Αν σε "πιάσουν", θα σου kολλήσουν ένα αυθαίρετο πρόστιμο kαι θα πας στα διοιkητιkά διkαστήρια να το αkυρώσεις. Στο μεταξύ θα πρέπει να έχεις πληρώσει ένα μέρος του προστίμου kαι πιθανά θα σου έχουν "παγώσει" τους λογαριασμούς kαι την αkίνητη περιουσία σου. Μετά από 2-3 χρόνια που θα διkάσει ο πρώτος βαθμός, θα kάνεις ή εσύ ή η ΔΟΥ έφεση kαι μετά από 2-3 χρόνια που θα διkάσει το εφετείο θα πάτε kαι στο Συμβούλιο της Επιkρατείας. Αν δε διkαιωθείς kαι στο ΣτΕ, πας στο ευρωπαϊkό.

Μια δεkαετία περίπου να δείξεις ότι δεν είσαι ελέφαντας.

Οπότε ή kοkο kαι δεν kάνεις τίποτα, ή kάνεις ότι kάνεις kαι πληρώνεις το 15% σαν kεφαλαιαkό kέρδος, ή kάνεις την πάπια kαι ελπίζεις να μη σε πιάσουνε, όχι γιατί δεν έχεις δίkιο, αλλά γιατί θες μια δεkαετία kαι χιλιάδες ευρώ έξοδα στα διkαστήρια για να το βρεις.

>>5805893
>>5806073
>>5806265
>>5806330
>You don't have to pay taxes if you aren't cashing out xD
Damage control at it finest. Anyway cash out and experience it for yourself.

>>5805586
FICK DICH du Hurensohn! Denkst du wirklich ich riskiere mein Kapital um diese ganzen Nigger und Wüstenpisser durchzufüttern?
Jeder scheiß verfickte dahergelaufene Wüstenköter kriegt ein Haus und eine nette Unterkunft und meine psychisch kranke Mutter wurde auf die Straße zum verrecken gesetzt.
Ich hoffe ihr versinkt in der Scheiße, lasst dieses verfickte Land brennen. Ich werde zuschauen und lachen.

>>5806415
schau mal auf coss.io die adden bald fiat pairs und da sollte es eigentlich kein problem sein sein fiat zu halten bei bedarf so als bank ersatz

>>5805748

Falls es jemand ganz korrekt machen will und generell den Überblick mag, kann ich Cointracking.info empfehlen. Hat nen Steuer-Report und zieht in der Pro-Version alle Trades via API und CSV von den Exchanges.

>>5806330
>Using monero to "wash" your crypto gains

This is literally the WORSE thing you could possibly do. How will you later proof that you legally acquired the coins if you use monero, a currency that can't be traced? They will not only fuck you up with tax evasion but also with money laundering charges.

>>5806415
Muslime können wenigstens Arbeiten mit ihren Händen du undankbarer Bastard.

Steuern wurden bezahlt damit dein undankbarer Arsch eines der besten Bildungssysteme der WELT erleben darf.

Verpiss dich doch aus Deutschland wenn du es so doll hasst mit deinen "MIMIMIM DIE BÖSEN MUSLIME VERKAUFEN DÖNER WAAAAAH"

Lächerlicher Schwächling

>>5806519
t. goatfucker

>>5806408
Damage control? Doesn't really look like you undertstand the topic. You paid taxes voluntarily, you are already out. Like i said there are so many different ways. Actually some good examples are in this thread.

If you have 5 digits, i wouldn't mind about the taxes either, but bigger portfolios will give you more opportunities.

If you are freely willing to pay taxes on a 7 digit portfolio you should kys and keep wagecucking

>>5805719
>UK filled with rapeugees
>don't even pay high taxes

I'd rather get cheap trains and still all the sandniggers.

>>5806489
You are right. That's a very bad Idea, don't do this anons. They will fuck you up and put you in jail.

>lmao

>>5806673
>get cheap trains
You realize they are getting subsidized from stolen tax money, thus by default being more expensive than a private business that would provide a better service for the same price?

>>5799137
>Le 67% Refugee

>>5806624
what exactly are your options for a 7 digit portfolio?

>>5807007
Ah yes, sorry, the UK has a great service that's been running smoothly since privatisation

>>5807090
bump

>>5806624
>>5807090
I want to know this as well. I want to be prepared

>>5807098
Capitalism cannot function efficiently when there's state to regulate it. Blame the cronies.

South Africa Capital Gains Tax for Individuals is 18% regardless of amount and with a little effort there are ways to evade even that.
The baboons here don't know what the fuck crypto is and are so busy raping the gold mines that they most likely won't care about it for the next 5 years. By then I will be too rich to care.

Move over here to the Netherlands achmed

>>5807203
>the cronies
That's a funny way to spell late modernity

>>5807370
I really don't care how you name it. Has no bearing on the argument whatsoever.

if you cant evade tax you dont deserve your crypto gains. lmfao

>>5807312
Dont say that, we're full. The last thing we need are higher rent/house costs and more NEETs needing therapy

>>5806519
>Muslime können arbeiten

Tun sie aber nicht. Nun verpiss dich in ein arabisches Drecksland deiner Wahl.

>>5801710
don't you mean kyke?
racist idiot

>0.82

>>5800662
>>5804430
Εγώ ξέρω ότι είναι 15% όπως για άλλα kεφαλαιαkά kέρδη
Αυτα για 60% είναι μαλαkίες, το πολύ 35% είναι σε όποια χώρα kαι να πας. Αυτοί που λένε 60% μάλλον υπολογίζουν capital gains kαι income tax μαζί, μόνο ένα θα πάρεις όμως.

Will I still have to pay tax if I'm under 18? Britbong here

>>5808899
Of course dummy. Tyrone's 12 children are not going to pay for themselves.

>>5804209
bump, anyone?

Beeing forced to handle all the 63274863 daily shittrades from 2 years ago when there was no law regarding crypto, will be really shit.

>>5808899
https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/allowances

3. Capital Gains Tax allowances

You only have to pay Capital Gains Tax on your overall gains above your tax-free allowance (called the Annual Exempt Amount).

The tax-free allowance is:

£11,300
£5,650 for trusts

You can see tax-free allowances for previous years.

You may also be able to reduce your tax bill by deducting losses or claiming reliefs - this depends on the asset.

>>5809155
If you unironically declare your crypto then you deserve everything that's coming to you.

>>5809209
I have double the amount of BTC now from back when I was bought them at a local official BTC broker.

I would have to cash out several 100k €, Finanzamt WILL knock at my door.

and I will have to cash out one day if I want to buy land and a house.

Most of my crypto is held >1 year, but all the trades before them must be taxed?

All these fucking retards with their 1 ETH holdings.

So you not understand if I cashed out illegally or legally and that amount of fiat enters any of my accounts the tax man has to be notified by the bank by law.

You dumb fucks.

>>5799137
>best countries to cash out are hellholes for gays
>only reason I'm in crypto anyway is so I can buy a crypto bf

It's not fair!

>>5806123
lmao not even remotly true

>>5809581
the netherlands = first country to legalize gay marriage in the world, 1.67% capital gains tax

>>5799137
I don't know what part of germany you live in bro
I made over 300k
0 tax
2018 will be another 500k+

>>5807090
>>5807118
>>5807158
>>5648250

>>5809748
actually u have to inform the taxman. but who cares.

the only thing i can conclude from all those crypto-tax threads lately is: no one actually ever paid any taxes.

> blah trade BTC to ALT, hold ALT one year, trade ALT to BTC, hold BTC one year blah blah..

think about it, how would that even work IRL?
yes, i can send the financial authority "screenshots" of my transaction history or a roll of toiletpaper i noted all my trades on - it really doesn't matter cause there is no way from them to proove what i claim is true.

>>5804319
absolut dies,
die beweispflicht liegt bei dir.
Du kannst nicht sagen. Aber mein liebes FA, 1 Jahr Hodl = keine Steuer. Du musst es nachweisen. Kann sogar sein, dass es als Einkommen gestuft wird und du Vorsteuer zahlen musst. 200k "verdient" und kein Geld für Steuerberater. Das würde ich dir raten und dann einfach es normal auscashen und deine Steuer zahlen. Du hast 200k gemacht mit Memecoins und u.a. extrem viel Glück, solche Steigerungen sind nicht nachhaltig, das weiß jeder also sei Froh eben >100k mit paar Klicks und Dummheit anderer Menschen verdient zu haben, freu dich darüber und nutz es dir dein Schaffleben etwas zu versüßen.

>>5809934
He will care when Mister FA will fist his ass.
And are wondering where 800k came from.
Then he has to proof it. He can't and 300-400k Tax pay, + perhaps some punishment fee could be till 100% of tax pays + interest on the fees. Then bb cryptos gains. But just continue. Since last year, the FA has easy access to your Bank accounts.
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/politik/inland/bankgeheimnis-abgeschafft-steuerzahler-geldwaesche-100.html
hf gl with Merggels fist in your ass. The authorties need some time but ce careful, they will come soon. Especially for such amounts of cash.

>>5806123
for real?
my sister got italian citizenship a few years ago.
so would it be possible that i send her crypto and she gib me the moneys?

>>5799137
Merkelcucks

>>5806519
this.

>>5810472
>Then he has to proof it. He can't
are you retarded
I have every single transaction from back to 2009 and cash out without even being bothered by them once

>>5810515
It is not real

>>5799137
>not holding your money in a crypto that funds the 4th Reich and holocausting the filthy jews destroying your country
>except for real this time

>>5810515
possible and illegal yes of you don't want to pay taxes.
You will have to pay taxes on your gains, furthermore "Schenkungssteuer" depends on amount. You have to declare yourself the Schenkungssteuer to FA, there is no lapse of time for not paid Schenkungssteuer, if FA will know about that in 100 years, you have pay Schenkungssteuer + punishment fee+ interest. Like i said above, the guys who made at least over 10-20k, just go to a tax counselor. You made such amount. Cash it out normal, if you have enough proofs for FA you can save taxes if now, than it was your fault and just pay your taxes. That easy it is. If you over 1Million and want to cash out, just leave the country forever or at least for some years and cash it somewhere, like malta etc.

>>5810845
because the german fiscal authority doesn't have (and probably won't for the next decade) the technical knowledge to investigate BTCs blockchain to verify if those trades you claim really happened.

and that is if you cash out using a pseudo-private coin like BTC. use XMR instead... even if there were any competent people working there and they wanted to, they couldn't confirm your trades.

>>5799862
you literally can
people are fucking retarded

>>5809748
do you think because they didn't send you a bill you don't have to pay it or something? It will catch up with you, keep your records.