/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57696323
>b-but pol said China number 1! Fuck fuck FUCK America! REEEEEEEEE I HATE AMERICA

>>57696323
LOL
Their whole economy isn’t propped up with fake money like the united states
Americans will be eating cat food in 10 years begging chinks to save them

>>57696337
It's literally propped up with fake housing.

>>57696337
What is it propped up by lmao

>>57696323
japan wasnt a failed state despite the recession

>>57696343
>>57696355
They manufacture half the shit the world uses you retards.

I've never seen a more arrogant group of people in my life, like a nation entirely of new money flaunting it around while abroad. I would be SHOCKED if they continue as top dogs into the future. Those people are destined to eat one another alive. Hence why the CCP are hellbent on weakening the west, it's their only chance for world domination (which of course would fail inevitably from mass escalator death).

>>57696376
Your plastic dragon dildo hardly impacts the world economy

>>57696337
The vast majority of American debt is held by its citizens. Retard Chang.

>>57696424
It doesn't matter if it's internal or external debt muttbro. The fact is, Americans are living beyond their means and that is unsustainable in the long run. The only reason they've been able to get away with it for so long is the unfair financial dominance they have in the world.

>>57696519
Are you an actually chang?

>>57696323
>Nooo! You can't have affordable housing! That's uneconomical!

>>57696393
Tell that to your mum and her collection. VERIFICATION NOT REQUIRED but do go and see for yourself.

>>57696337
>Their whole economy isn’t propped up with fake money
I'm in awe

>>57696535
>no u!
Use better comebacks

>>57696323
>>57696331
>>57696343
>>57696355
>>57696390
>>57696393
>>57696424
>>57696524
Reminder that these posters are coming from government-funded NGO shill farms. Watch this interview with the former head of cyber operations at the US State Department to see how they operate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRYSKaS-XtQ

>>57696546
I'm not even who you were responding to. Its hardly a comeback, I was just alluring to your mother's large dildo collection.

>>57696323
>>57696331
>>57696376
>>57696424
>>57696390
VERY VERY organic Agent Goldberg.
And of course TWO MORE WEEKS

>>57696578
>TWO MORE WEEKS
says the retards constantly spamming the muh chinkna will overtake America any day now lmao

>>57696588
Where did i spam this you schizo?
Why would they want to overtake this shithole filled with retarded brainwashed obese mutts?

>>57696588
Keep on strawmanning, glownigger. I bet you're going to spam some more "muh Zion Don" shill threads after this.

>>57696519
lol literally every relevant country on the planet is in debt to pay its bills

>>57696323
The world will be a global failed state in 2030.

>>57696672
And what comes then?

>>57696672
Stop thinking geographically, which is an outdated mindset. Digital society is legit now, so even if "the world economy" fails, everyone who migrated to the Bitcoin economy will thrive.

>>57696337
>BRO IS FAKE MONEY CAUSE... CAUSE GOLD IS REAL!!!

imagine being this incredibly stupid.

>>57696757
Any money that can be created out of thin air is fake money, retard. Printing more money does not add any value into an economic system, it simply redistributes purchasing power to whoever the printer-owner deems fit.

>>57696776
So all money is fake? No money is real? Wow you must be very insightful.

>>57696702
What will Bitcoin be backed by that will give it value if not fiat currency?

>>57696337
US economy is propped up by its military. They force the rest of the world to accept that toilet paper in exchange for w/e the fuck they want.
The US economy wont tank until it loses a war; and I dont see that as likely. Not because the US is strong, but because the rest of the world is so busy fighting eachother the US has no threats.

>>57696689
the end of socialism, it will be glorious

>>57696817
>So all money is fake?
Try creating more Bitcoin.
Hint: You can't.

Ameritards absolutely seething itt
Your third world corrupt country is fucked and you all know it
You bitch and moan about it all day and do nothing but China will capitalize on how spineless you all are at the end of the day
Pray that they have the heart to airdrop you rice

>>57696861
What is the USD backed by? The US military? Let me tell you, the power of the US military is nothing compared to someone at the federal reserve hitting the print button.

Now to address Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't have to be backed by anything if everything is denoted in BTC and not the other way around, understand?
Money is a medium of exchange. Do you know what makes a good money? There are 3 characteristics:
>Salability across scales
Can it be divided into smaller units, or grouped into larger units? Bitcoin can. Dollars can. Ok good.
>Salability across space
Can you send the money anywhere in the world with minimal friction? Bitcoin can, you can access it anywhere so long as there is a computer and Internet and you recall your seedphrase. Dollars kind of can. Indeed you can send it across countries with ease but you're at the whims of your bank, and certain bank addresses will be blacklisted including based on geographic zones.
>Salability across time
Does the money hold its value across time? Bitcoin does. Dollars don't (look at how USD has massively devalued since abandoning the gold standard).

Based on these three criteria for "good money", which do you think is better: BTC or USD? Again, the military might of whatever economic (former) superpower you can think of is unable to stop BTC from gaining traction, and unable to stop the USD from devaluing 90%+ in 50 years.

One more thing: "money" has throughout history been decided by the free-market. Do you think governments forced a gold-standard? No, they had to adopt it in the first place because gold was the recognised money at the time, and any government that didn't back their currency with gold would be laughed off. It took extreme circumstances (a global war) to start conning the public into believing going off a gold-standard was a good idea, which led to the creation of the fiat system we have today. Fiat is an extremely recent phenom like in the past 100 out of 2000+ years of society.

>>57696910
>Real money is something nobody uses in real world trade other than gambling and highly volatile currency that can't be controlled by government in times of crisis and has much higher transacton fees than any card on existance
Lmao. Imagine being this retarded. There is a reason why EVERY COUNTRY has monetary control and left the shitty gold standard. Go take a simple econ class and you won't spew the most retarded things.

>>57697000
One last thing.
If money is determined by the free-market, do you think they will choose the better money (which will give them wealth) or the worse money (which will make them poor)?
Look at Bitcoin adoption over time: it's up and to the right. We're at the point where a country has even adopted it as legal tender. When that country starts flourishing economically due to this decision, you can expect other countries to follow suite.
Fiat is simply a passing fad. It may last 100 to 150 years, but that's nothing compared to the timelessness of Bitcoin.

>>57697000
This is such a retarded position. You're not making a good case for bitcoin or crypto here. You have no good argument that it will retain its value over time. It's backed by nothing, but you shills will promote this as a good thing. It is not, and none of you have any compelling argument for why it would be so. It's based on nothing.

>Let me tell you, the power of the US military is nothing
sure bud

>>57697004
>There is a reason why EVERY COUNTRY has monetary control
Yes, and it's because "absolute power corrupts, absolutely". Do you think some centralized entity (the government), given the option of unlimited power (a money printer) would turn it down? No.
>shitty gold standard
For you. Compared to a BTC standard, it sucks, but for its time a gold-standard was the best thing. The only way to persuade people to abandon the gold standard was to do so under the guise of war. "Citizens, we have to win this war or else our very way of life will be lost. Let us create more money to fund our victory."

>>57696323
Cope harder muttoid xd

>>57697035
>You have no good argument that it will retain its value over time.
See pic related. Have fun staying poor.

>>57697079
try to come with a real argument instead

>>57697079
btc isnt a currency and will never be used as one

>>57697091
The real argument would be the 15 year USD-BTC chart (which unfortunately I cannot find), which shows the true extent of the USD's devaluation against a much better currency.

Did you know that in 2010 it cost 10,000 BTC for 2 Papa John's pizzas? I had a quick google to research the prices and came across pic related. So $10 per pizza in 2010, or $20 for 2 pizzas.
So in 2010 it was 10,000BTC/$20:
>2010 rates = 500BTC per $1.
Now it's:
>2024 rates = 0.000020BTC per $1
Or a 99.999996% collapse.

Is 15 years too short a time-frame for you to get the idea of the trend? Btw, what has the overall trend been for Bitcoin? Up or down? How about the dollar's worth? Up or down? Refer to my pic here: >>57697079
Would you invest in a shitcoin (ie. the dollar) which had that kind of chart? Would you say "oh yeah, it's gonna make a HUGE reversal, just you wait and see bros"?

>>57697111
It is literally the legal tender of the safest country in the Western hemisphere, El Salvador. Only shithole countries where homeless people and drug addicts rule the streets, literally defacating everywhere, and are funded by the state (aka USA: refer to San Francisco or any shithole city there like New York) that tries to fight against BTC.

>>57697155
>The real argument would be the 15 year USD-BTC chart (which unfortunately I cannot find), which shows the true extent of the USD's devaluation against a much better currency.

and when world governments decide it's not in their interest to allow trade in BTC

or when the biggest actors decides its time to move on

or when the next best crypto comes along. that does the same thing but more efficient.

There is nothing inherent in BTC that holds any real value.

If you trade in assets, you hold something of value. When you're backed by USD you're backed by military and lawmakers. You can say that you don't like how they conduct things, and I'd agree with a lot of that, but there is something tangible holding that together.

BTC doesn't have any of that. 15 years is nothing in the large picture here. It does not prove anything. A lot of things will look good until they're actually tested. It'll look good until it doesn't. And then there's no one to bail out the baggies.

>>57696337
>t. zhang
the USD is backed by taxes, monetary policy, and trade, mostly the latter, ie its the world reserve currency and will remain so because every other currency sucks way more than the dollar
people arent going to abandon the dollar standard any time soon, and the fed is incredibly good at their job of maintaining monetary stability
seethe more

>>57697235
anyway, we could go for a few more stupid rounds in this but this is taking too long. have a good one

>>57697235
>and when world governments decide it's not in their interest to allow trade in BTC
They can do nothing. Governments have tried to ban Bitcoin and failed. And now the networks is too big and too decentralised for them to ever beat it. The most they can do is make onboarding new people into the system harder, but that would just make the actual value of BTC go up as it becomes more scarce. Further, the government is powerless to stop any actual BTC transaction. If I want to send my BTC somewhere, they cannot stop me. They can only stop new people from onboarding.
>or when the biggest actors decides its time to move on
Decide to move on from the most sound money ever known to human civilisation? They can have fun getting poor.
>or when the next best crypto comes along. that does the same thing but more efficient.
In the past 15 years, there have been hundreds of "Bitcoin competitors", and 10s of 1000s of altcoins, many of which are "the next best crypto" and are "Bitcoin, but more efficient". 99% of them have flat out failed, and the remaining 1% simply have not surpassed Bitcoin's adoption. One thing that sets Bitcoin apart is its timelessness, compare that to pretty much all other crypto which are constantly receiving feature updates or foundational restructuring. Remember what I said here: >>57697000, a money needs to be salable across time. The less it changes, the better.
>There is nothing inherent in BTC that holds any real value.
The value comes from the fact that it is by far the best money human civilisation has ever had. Did you read what I wrote about the 3 criteria for being a good money? Literally NOTHING else fits all 3.

>>57697326
Ok you too anon. I hope you can open your eyes to the truth before you get wrecked holding fiat. You seemed to be arguing in earnest even if literally all your points have already been proven wrong by history. I assume you're a boomer who doesn't know much about the space (no offense).

>>57697336
>They can do nothing. Governments have tried to ban Bitcoin and failed.
They can prevent their businesses from accepting crypto and paying taxes with it. That's all they have to do to prevent crypto from having value because what gives a currency value is the goods and services that are exchanged with it. The fact is, governments will never willingly give up control over money because the effects would be disastrous. Look at the decline of organized crime. That decline is largely due to government control and oversight of money (e.g. prevention of money laundering).
Crypto is fundamentally worthless and will remain so. The price will crash to near zero when the supply of gullible retards runs out and the line stops going up forever. When people realize there isn't going to be another bullrun is when this Ponzi ends.

Intelligence agencies are really paying 100 iq retards to shill fiat on /biz/ in fucking 2024 kek